Dear Bedu

668 Responses

Bob Houston, on March 28, 2009 at 10:55 pm said:

Dear Bedu,
My question pertains to Non Saudi man converting to Islam and marrying a Saudi lady over the age of 25. I am wondering how often this has happened? I have met a beautiful yound lady and would love to marry her we feel the same way towards each other. I understand it would not be easy with the biggest hurdle being her father with his blessing what other obstacles would there be?
American Bedu, on March 28, 2009 at 11:02 pm said:

Dear Bob,

It does not happen as often as the foreign woman marrying a Saudi but it does indeed happen. As you cited though, key is the family approval. The biggest hurdle would likely be the father’s blessing. However other aspects to consider is while a husband can sponsor a foreign wife to the Kingdom, a Saudi wife can not sponsor a foreign husband! So the husband will in fact have to have his own sponsor (usually an employer) to be in the Kingdom with his Saudi wife!

Thanks for asking. Some other followers of this blog also happen to be non-Saudi men who have married Saudi women so I hope they will comment and share their experiences too.

Regards,
Carol (aka Bedu)
Tee, on March 29, 2009 at 5:20 am said:

Dear Bedu,

I love love love Dear Bedu! Thank you! Lol. I have no questions yet, but most certainly will do!

All the best to you, always!

Tee
American Bedu, on March 29, 2009 at 5:39 am said:

Dear Tee,

And I love love love that you enjoy my blog! I’ll look forward to your future questions!

Cheers,
Bedu
Mohamed S., on March 30, 2009 at 4:22 pm said:

Dear Bedu,

Saudi Arabia just upset Iran in a FIFA World Cup Qualifying match, have you noticed anything surrounding this game?
American Bedu, on March 30, 2009 at 4:31 pm said:

Dear Mohamed,

Since I am presently out of the Kingdom I have missed this game. What do you mean by anything surrounding this game? You mean any political connotations or fall out over a soccer game? And speaking of games, if anyone happens to follow college basketball I saw an amazing game the other night between Pittsburgh and Villanova. In the last 5 seconds it was still not clear who was going to emerge the victor! I love those kind of games.

Regards,
Bedu
Khadija, on March 31, 2009 at 5:20 am said:

Dear Bedu,

How common is it for an saudi family to accept an american wife after they have found out their son has married without gaining their permission first?

I have done a lot of research and talked to others who are from Saudi, but nothing compares to actually moving to saudi or visiting to fully comprend the tremendous difference in culture.

Do you think the family might force him to marry a second wife or divorce the first?

He is trying to warm them up to the idea that we are married but he isn’t sure how they will react when he tells them outright.

Regards
The American Wife to Loving Saudi Husband
American Bedu, on March 31, 2009 at 5:11 pm said:

Dear Khadija,

Much will depend on the family and how traditional or open they are. This is actually a pretty common phenomena. -If- the Saudi husband is able to get the requisite permissions and actually bring his wife to Saudi, the family will typically come around and especially so if there is a baby involved. At least this has been my observation. I won’t deny there have been some cases where the family has exerted pressure for another wife or a divorce but usually if the family decides they dislike a foreign wife, they will simply ignore her. A lot will also depend on the Saudi husband. If he sticks up for his foreign wife and supports her that also helps the family come around. In my view if a son has married without informing the family there is usually a reason for that on his part.

All the Best,
American Bedu
Marie, on March 31, 2009 at 9:46 pm said:

Dear Bedu,

I know that in order for a Saudi man to marry a non-Saudi, he must obtain government permission and pay a substantial fee. But what are the requirements to obtain this permission and what amount is the fee? I’ve heard that the man must be over 35, but I’ve been unable to find any direct information.

Thanks!
American Bedu, on April 1, 2009 at 3:21 am said:

Dear Marie,

Please read these two posts which I had written earlier. I believe they help explain the entire process, restrictions and regulations:

http://americanbedu.com/2008/05/28/what-you-need-to-know-about-saudi-students-outside-the-kingdom/

http://americanbedu.com/2007/12/23/saudi-marriage-restrictions-to-foreigners/

This is however the first time I’ve heard of a ‘fee.’ I am guessing that your reference to a fee is where a man has paid a fee to expedite the approval process or basically knows someone who can make the approval happen…for a fee.

But I wish to point out, a Saudi man can marry a non-Saudi. The government cannot prevent the Saudi man from marrying whom he wishes, but in order for the couple to live in the Kingdom and be legally recognized as man and wife, the approval must be in place. There are many many Saudis with foreign wives but the couple or wife only are living outside of the Kingdom due to the inability or challenges associated with getting approval.

Best regards,
Bedu
A saudi man, on April 1, 2009 at 10:19 am said:

Dear Bedu,

Just a small correction regarding Bob question, a saudi woman can sponsor her foreign husband, same as a saudi hubasnd can sponsor his foreign wife….

Regards….
American Bedu, on April 1, 2009 at 2:42 pm said:

A Saudi Man,

Is this a new development? I have a very good friend (Saudi) whose husband is Turkish and she has been unable to sponsor him. What I mean by sponsor, is provide him an iqama as a legal resident of the Kingdom.

Regards,
Bedu
Aafke, on April 3, 2009 at 1:43 pm said:

Dear Bedu,

I am involved with an Arab boyfriend who is treating me very badly from time to time. Yet sometimes he is so sweet and friendly. I love him so much at these times that I forgive him for treating me badly.
Last year he was angry with me and kicked me very hard on my butt, yet half an hour later he was all over me trying to make me like him again.
Sometimes when I don’t cross over to his stable immediately when I arrive he calls me over with a very low but loud whinney, and everybody laughs at me because he expects me to obey him immediately.
I clean his stable every day, and I make sure he has the best meals, but when we are out he thinks he has to protect me by making the strangest jumps or taking off every time he spots a forrest-troll, or a Woezel. (Woezels are strange scary creatures only horses can see) And once a year I fall off and hurt myself very much. He stops immediately, and waits by my side, but he doesn’t seem sorry I am hurt!
But every time when I saddle him up, and at the moment I want to put his bridle on, he insists on a cuddle, and nibbles my shoulder and my cheek, and then I just melt away and forgive him everything.

Tell me, Bedu, what can I do to make my Arab Boyfriend to trust me when we are riding in the field? How can I make him stop acting as if I am personell?
I don’t want to give up on him ever!

Anonimous
Adnan, on April 3, 2009 at 2:57 pm said:

Carol, a Saudi woman can indeed sponsor her non-saudi husband. However, that husband cannot work for someone else under her sponsorship. Also, it is much more challenging for this process to happen versus the case of a saudi man and non-saudi woman.
American Bedu, on April 3, 2009 at 4:52 pm said:

Dear Anonimous,

That sounds like quite a predicament indeed and we certainly do not want this Arab boyfriend injuring you, intentionally or not. It sounds to me that he clearly needs more oats and sugar cubes. Give him a handful before the ride to put him in the right spirits and then give him another handful at the end of the ride to reward him for the ride well done. And sorry to say it, but he is indeed being a frisky Arab male!

Regards,
Bedu
American Bedu, on April 3, 2009 at 4:54 pm said:

Dear Adnan,

Thank you for the information that a Saudi woman can sponsor a non-Saudi husband. I am sure it is not a small feat to accomplish. All the marriages I know of a Saudi woman married to a non-Saudi in KSA, even with the requisite approvals in place, the husband was sponsored in KSA by his employer. Who knows, maybe that was easier and offered more advantages to him… I don’t know. If you know a foreign man sponsored by a Saudi wife in KSA I’d love to interview him!

Regards,
Bedu
muslimmamma, on April 7, 2009 at 9:18 am said:

Dear Bedu,

We have both not told our family about the marriage. I tried to tell my aunt and she thought because he was Saudi that I would be in another extremely abusive relationship. However that is just not the case. Coming from a history of abusive relationships, namely my father and ex-boyfriend, I can see that he is truly concerned for my well being. He is thinking to tell his parents once he has progressed further along in his studies.

I have spoken to both his sister and brother, both of which I have found to be very open minded. They have such a beautiful tightnit family, I am hoping they accept me once they find out we are married. His friends and neighbors in Saudi know we are married. I think its just a matter of time before he is ready to tell them outright. We have talked about telling them more directly if they push for him to marry a saudi wife while he is in the states.

If he does end up marrying a second wife, do you think a saudi wife or her family could accept me?

Khadija
American Bedu, on April 7, 2009 at 5:01 pm said:

Dear Muslimmamma,

The more I am learning of your situation the more concerned I am for you. What kind of foundation is a relationship built on non-disclosure? Ie, neither of your families knowing? Secondly it is clear he is a student. Students are PROHIBITED from marrying a foreigner. Their scholarship can be revoked and they can be immediately deported. There are at least 2 Saudi students on every Saudi Airlines flight that returns from the USA to KSA for various reasons on the part of the student.

And why should you feel you’d need to settle for being in a plural marriage? If he marries a Saudi wife they will take control – remember they are all from the same customs, culture and it is not so much as a man and woman marrying in KSA but more like families forging together through the marriage.

I know you may not like this advice but I suggest run and do not look back.

Regards,
American Bedu
Chiara, on April 7, 2009 at 6:17 pm said:

Muslimmamma–American Bedu has given you excellent advice, and knows best about Saudi, but as a psychiatrist/therapist, this is one of those situations where for professional reasons I have to stop myself from shouting “Run far, run fast!”, and “CYA!–ie protect yourself legally while doing so!”.
American Bedu, on April 7, 2009 at 7:43 pm said:

I am so fortunate to have professionals who also share their knowledge and expertise. Thanks Chiara!
coolred38, on April 7, 2009 at 11:54 pm said:

Muslimmamma…better for you if you remove your blinders and or rose colored glasses from now…better to see more clearly exactly what your headed for. Good or bad its better to go into it with your eyes wide open and seeing 20/20 all the way. Hindsight sucks!!!
American Bedu, on April 8, 2009 at 1:59 am said:

Muslimmamma,

If you and your Saudi have already married in the States and have a child together, I would strongly suggest for you to seek legal advice to protect yourself and your child. Furthermore bear in mind your child would be granted immediate Saudi citizenship but once in Saudi if things did not work out to your or your husband’s satisfaction, he could revoke YOUR sponsorship forcing you to leave KSA without your child.
Monika Pavlik, on April 10, 2009 at 12:39 am said:

American Bedu, a hearty ‘Hello’ from Scotland to you and your readers. I have just discovered your interesting site and thought I might ask what Americans in Saudi Arabia made of the ‘Princess Triolog’ Three books about the life of Royals in Saudi Arabia written by American author Jean Sasson who worked at a Hospital in Saudi Arabia. Subsequently, so she states, she met a Princess from the Royal Hause of Saud at some Embassy-party and the two woman became the best of friends. Princess Sultana, that,s her name in the books, but not real name, begged Jean Sasson to write these books for her. Question: Is this a possibility? Could this be true? Awaiting your kind response, thank you, Victoria, Monica and Cheryl
American Bedu, on April 10, 2009 at 5:28 am said:

Victoria, Monica and Cheryl,

Welcome to the blog! It’s a pleasure to have you here. Yes, Jean Sasson worked in administration at the King Faisal Specialist Hospital and Research Centre in Riyadh. Can one, such as an expat, become friends with a member of the Royal family? Yes. Might a member of the Royal family confide certain details to an expat, Yes.

Now in specific response to your question, I have indeed read the Princess Triology and in my own personal opinion much is indeed over-exaggerated but then again, sensationalism is also what sells…

Because I do not think these books truly depict reality of Saudi Arabia I chose not to have them cited on my books page.

I encourage other readers who have read these books to share their views as well.
Chiara, on April 10, 2009 at 5:47 am said:

I haven’t read them, but I did find it more plausible that the woman who sued for plagiarism had written a manuscript based on her life, that was reworked by Sasson, than that a Saudi princess had shared that much and that type of detail with the intent of publication by an expat.

I’m glad to read that they form part of the “Muslim Women” literary genre that sells so well now, but is unrealistic, or at least skewed about the home country of the particular abused Muslim woman telling her true life story, rather than a reflection of Saudi life, even for the oppressed royals. (I’m not meaning to minimize the distress of the restrictions they live under, but this genre is very popular now, and contributes to the negative view the West has of Islam/Arabs, particularly, the men).
Monika Pavlik, on April 11, 2009 at 1:51 am said:

Dear American Bedu and Chiara, we thank for your reply. We are also just now reading a most interesting telling book which might also be of interest to some of you. It’s titel: ‘ SOFT WEAPONS autobiography in transit’. It is written by Prof. Gillian Whitlock, therefore we wonder if indeed any of those ‘TRUE STORY’ books about the plight of Arabic-Muslim woman, which are usually written by females from the West about the East, bear any truth. Yes, sensationalism does sell, but it should not be excused nor allowed to write lies to make money. Especially when those lies are used for negative propaganda like Jean Sasson’s books. To start with the publishers should be first in line to be held responsible. Why should we readers get cheated.
Anyway that’s just what we feel. Thank you again. We will keep checking out this special site more often from now on. Bye for now from us. Victoria, Cheryl and Monika
American Bedu, on April 11, 2009 at 2:06 am said:

Dear Scottish Ladies,

I’m not aware of the book you mentioned but I will certainly look for it. There seems to be a high interest and therefore a good market for books on ‘arab/muslim women gender issues.’ For example, I also read the true story “Standing Alone in Makkah.” It was the journey of a single female parent to Makkah. Again, I am very picky about the books I read and in this case I felt it was more of a woman wanting to draw attention to herself but I guess you could say she was candid with her views and thoughts.

Regards,
Carol
Chiara, on April 11, 2009 at 6:43 am said:

Dear Scottish Ladies

Thank you for the reference. I will check into it. I think these biographies/ autobiographies/ memoirs have partial truth but are commissioned, edited, and marketed with a view to selling exotica of the negative Arab/Iranian/Afghani/Muslim behaviours towards women variety. They have become a genre within the broader penchant for “true stories” biographies/ autobiographies/ memoirs that have dominated popular reading and much academic discourse. They are dangerous in that their exaggerations and general skew bias even otherwise intelligent readers.

Both of Moroccan Miriam Oufkir’s memoirs (written with a French feminist journalist) are true in
outline, and some detail (I know enough about this case to be sure), although some of it is background for Westerners and some is “reconstructed” shall we say. (She even got on Oprah!) Similarly an Iranian Canadian’s memoir as part of her healing from PTSD rings partly true, but has enough exotica and a disclaimer to make sure it sells well.

Thanks for raising the topic, maybe it could be the subject of a post, eg. how Saudi is represented in literature to the West.
Monika Pavlik, on April 11, 2009 at 2:54 pm said:

Chiara, thank you once again. A very good idea ie; subject of a post etc..
Returning to your first posting about plagiarism and Jean Sasson you are spot on: Please Google: “PRINCESS”PLAGIARISM SUIT PROVIDES RARE LOOK INTO LITERARY ARAB-BASHING
and:
PLAGIARISM SUIT ON PARALLEL TALES OF ARAB WIFES.

Now that Saudi Arabia has manny very smart, bright, educated female journalists, why not have them challenge and rebuke Jean Sasson along with other untruth that comes so regular from the West. Call their bluff, why don’t you! Let them sit up and take notice, ward them off.

Sorry to be so grumpy, but as long as there is no reply-action from Saudi Arabia, discriminating material about Saudi Arabia will always be written, bought, and greedily devoured.
Usually people who are wronged do not have the funds to defend themselfe, luckily, that’s not the case with Saudi Arabia.

“Thank you” from from the three ‘Scottish Musketiers

There is of course also that most ridiculous book BURNT ALIVE by Souad out there. A definite hoax.

But what puzzles the mind is that the most favourable reviews with praise are written by Jean Sasson. Could this be another clever plot of hers?
Monika Pavlik, on April 11, 2009 at 3:14 pm said:

Dear American Bedu Carol!
Thank you for your book-tip: ‘Standing Alone In Mekka.’ we have not heard about this one, but will look it up.

We get the impression that Arab-Muslim females and for that matter males too, in reality do not write autobiographies like it is customary amongst Europaeans. Everything we have read so far seems fishy and hard to believe plus, the source of the heroine is kept in the dark.
Sincerely, The three Scottish Ladies
American Bedu, on April 11, 2009 at 5:56 pm said:

Dear Scottish Ladies,

There are not as yet as many Arab women out there writing autobiographies. However another one that I liked, although not an autobiography per se but non-fiction was written by a Female Arab-American professor on Arab voices speak to American Minds. She traveled to circa 5 countries in the GCC interviewing various Arabs who voiced their views on America and relationships. And each interviewee also concluded his or her chapter with a question for Americans to answer back. I have the book in my personal library but I am out of the Kingdom out of the moment so I’ll have to see if I can find it via google. I know it can be obtained through Amazon.

Watch out…someday if I ever decide to write my own book, it will be candid and may include some real surprises that would grab the readers attention! (smile)
Janine, on April 12, 2009 at 5:21 pm said:

Dear Bedu,

I live in the US, but work at a place that has many many SAudi students, all male. I am female and unmarried. I have done this job for quite a while and do get quite a number of “invites” for coffee or such. I never accept the because I feel it’s highly inappropriate. I just telll them that I have to be with my family or take care of my parents or some such thing in order to not cause embarassment to them.
However, I had one older Saudi who has a high military rank as a student. After he left my class and moved on to another class, he approached me. He is here with his wife and children and said that his wife was interested in meeting me and wanted to invite me to dinner at their home. I didn’t know what to say!
Is it ok to accept this invitiation. Am I showing dishonor to him, if I turn him down?
If it is indeed ok, I have no male relatives or anything to bring with me. So do I come covered? Do I just talk with my student’s wife and not really talk to him? Do I need to bring a special gift only for his wife and children?
nardin, on April 12, 2009 at 6:42 pm said:

Dear Bedu,

Interesting blog. I have been offered professional opportunities in KSA. As a European non-muslim 44 year old heterosexual bachelor, most of what I have read up to now seems to make living there for someone like me almost impossible. I would be honoured to have your opinion.

Best Regards,

Nardin
American Bedu, on April 12, 2009 at 7:07 pm said:

Dear Janine,

First it would not bring dishonor to turn him down if you wish. You might want to find out if his wife speaks any English just to know how easy (or not) it would be to communicate if you choose to accept the invite. If you do accept, I’d suggest dress modestly (long sleeves and slacks) but no need to cover. And of course a special gift such as flowers or box of chocolates would be appreciated.

Since you have not accepted any invites from the single students you may also want to determine whether he has regular interaction with any of the other students so that there would be talk about you accepting an invite from he and his family which could put you in an awkward position.

Best Wishes,
American Bedu
American Bedu, on April 12, 2009 at 7:46 pm said:

Dear Nardin,

Much of which determines what will make it successful for an individual to live and be happy in Saudi Arabia is a matter of perspective and attitude. My personal view is that if we allow ourselves, we could even be unhappy in Paradise. Make a list of what is important to you in regards to quality of life. It sounds like from what you have written if you choose to take a position in KSA you would likely wish to live on a western only compound which will have al the amenities of the west and be in some ways like its own little small town. I’d also suggest you ask yourself what are the professional benefits and developments to accepting the position.

Wish you all the best,
American Bedu
kother, on April 14, 2009 at 10:46 am said:

dear carol
how do you deal with a typical chauvenistic, arrogant, self opinionated,lazy saudi man.married for 2 years and now with a little baby i feel trapped in this marriage. everyone is waiting for it to fail due to cultural differences and his family never accepted me in the beginning.i really want it to work but forever it seems that he wants me to be a good little wifey and not be emotioanl or upset no matter what he does or says.cultural differences are huge and is affecting my older children from a prev marriage. are they all like this?
American Bedu, on April 14, 2009 at 3:20 pm said:

Dear Kother,

I’m very sorry to hear of your situation. You do not mention where you are located. If you are in Saudi, then I would suggest that in addition to making attempts to speak to your husband on your feelings and how it is impacting on you, seek out your support network. Don’t isolate yourself and keep all the emotions bottled up. If he is unwilling to talk about these issues and work with you (it does take 2 to make a successful marriage) then I suggest you make a list of the pros and cons of your marriage. What you are gaining, what you like against what you are losing and dislike. Then decided what YOU want for yourself and your children.

Remember having a child also puts new responsibilities as well as emotions on a family so keep that in mind too. Is this also a new phase of adjustment?

Wish you all the best,
Bedu
INAL, on April 19, 2009 at 2:00 pm said:

Dear Bedu, now that you have been back to the Sates after a few years, tell me do you feel that our kids in the USA have changed much and how are they comparing now with kids in KSA?

My question comes from a recent visit of a relative of mine who has spent most of her time in Spain; and she says she feels here kids seem (those of high school age and or going to college) to be more busier than kids back home.

In my home our daughters have such tight schedules we actually do make “date” with them… they have school; PSAT or SATs to prepare for; after school projects and jobs as well….and its a bit disconcerting when I hear of the lack of opportunities to grow and prepare a young person in KSA into a strong solid person due to so many restrictions on their movement that they often resemble in my mind as mummies- all wrapped up in binding words as well as garb….

Which leads to the second question- do you think USA is skimpy in dress as they all say? I mean I feel as if every comparison on proper Muslim versus not- boils down to how scantly we dress in the USA- knowing it can snow in April in many states- I can’t think that we would be in bikini season all year round- unless you lived in Florida, South Texas, LA…mil was surprised when she was looking at some “women” oriented magazines once I had taken over in my last visit- she asked when she saw the women in this particular magazine with their arms covered or with pants and asked- Are they Muslim?
American Bedu, on April 19, 2009 at 7:12 pm said:

The big distinction which stands out to me between kids in the USA and KSA are the options and choices that exist for both sexes of students in the USA — the plethoria of after school programs, clubs and athletic opportunities! As a result, I do agree that kids in the USA are kept very busy and that at times it might be challenging as a working parent to get quality time with kids if it is not planned and scheduled!

Actually I find that the kids in the US dress less skimpy than the kids in Saudi Arabia. The big distinction is that in Saudi due to the segregation you won’t see it publicly. But it makes you wonder if the abaya were not mandated if those same girls would continue to dress as they do?

Thanks for asking your questions Inal!

Regards,
Bedu
Jacee, on April 21, 2009 at 11:41 pm said:

Carol:
I really enjoy your website. It is informative, creative well thought out. Ia mglad there are some who are actually thinking actively. ( I just got off one of those “meet old friends” site and was really put off by it)
Again, I enjoy your blog.
Keep up the good work.
–Jacee
American Bedu, on April 22, 2009 at 2:38 am said:

Jacee,

Thank you very much for your lovely words! I’m glad to have you here!

Best Regards,
Carol
desert dude, on April 22, 2009 at 10:56 am said:

Dear Bedu…

i’m a US citizen currently living in Saudi and am (quite seriously) involved with a non-Saudi muslim woman. as an unmarried couple, we constantly run the risk of the muttawa (even though their pretty thin on the ground now). an added complication is that as my iqama states i’m christian, the ramifications of getting caught are a little more severe than usual.

we’re doing the normal precautions (wearing wedding rings in public, abiding by the cultural practices of no public displays of affections, etc.) we’re both white and so far (touch wood) so good. but to try and make sure she is protected (as she’s muslim and i’m not), we’re looking into getting married under sharia.

my understanding is that first i would need to convert (with no disrespect to islam and it’s followers) and secondly we would need to go in front of a sheikh to officiate. do you know of the processes involved in doing this? as we’re both ‘expats’ how does the family aspect factor into the marriage? (neither of us have parents in Saudi)

any help or advice greatly welcomed!

desert dude
American Bedu, on April 22, 2009 at 5:44 pm said:

Dear Desert Dude,

Congratulations!

Yes, a muslim woman is mandated to marry a fellow muslim (unlike the muslim man) so you would be expected to convert. I am sorry but I am not aware of the procedures involved for non-Saudis to marry in the Kingdom. I will have to investigate. I do know of an American woman who married a muslim while in the Kingdom but I know that a Saudi whom they knew helped arrange the details and get the requisite approvals.

Your fiance, as a muslim woman, would require a mahrem to stand up for her during the marriage who would ensure that she is not “coerced” into marriage and her rights are covered.

Out of curiosity is it an option to go to either her home country or yours where you could have a marriage take place with family present?

Best Regards,
American Bedu
tina, on April 26, 2009 at 6:56 am said:

AA Carol,

How are you and your relatives doing in Texas? I’ve been thinking about you alot lately and hoping everything is going well with all of you. I’ve really enjoyed your posts about America through your BILs eyes. I bet its quite fun! Are you getting back to see the Grandbaby anytime soon? Wanted to know if the phone# I have is still valid and if you have the time to chat again.
American Bedu, on April 26, 2009 at 7:10 am said:

Salam Alaikum Tina,
Thank you for your kind words. We’re doing fine and it would be a real pleasure to hear from you. I do spent most of the time at the hospital so if my phone goes into voice mail it only means that I am in an area where there is not coverage (and there’s a lot of those at the hospital). Look forward to catching up.

Regards,
Carol
mimi ameer, on April 30, 2009 at 8:14 pm said:

Dear AB,
after all those smiles put inbetween brackets, you made me want to see your real smile (which I trust to be magnificent . Here are the questions that came to mind when I visited mini Disneyland (they are not meant to offend):
Why are the skinny Saudi guards outside and the big macho American soldiers inside? Is it because of the sun?
I’ve heard on the news before that the US gov’t hires foreign labor to build its embassies, for little or no pay, Is this true? Isn’t it hypocritical of it to do so while it criticizes 3rd world countries for similar actions? Are the Nepali, Filipino, Indian guards hired to work for the embassy in Riyadh for this reason?

Who makes the blueberry muffins? Are they safe to eat? (I ate one n I got severe cramps but thank God they didn’t last long)

there’s this one lady, everyone who goes there and has the misfortune of meeting her is able to identify her because of her grumpiness…..If you by any chance know who I’m talking about (she’s probably Lebanese American) , please tell me why she’s so grumpy. Is she/ was she pregnant this year? (Sorry about the silly Q I just had to ask.)
I could’ve sworn i had more questions…I guess, that’s it.
P.S. For anyone who read this post, please don’t be afraid of eating the yummy muffins because the one bad experience I had with them ( ymkn sadathoom elshms).
American Bedu, on May 1, 2009 at 3:00 am said:

@mimi,

I like your questions and will answer what I can…..

It is not just the American embassy but most embassies will first have
the local nationals (in Riyadh, National Guardsmen) be the first point
of security. However the Marine guards will be positioned inside as
they have the appropriate clearances for access inside of the
embassy…..and why are they usually so big and brawny…that is part
of the marine security guard selection process…one can be assured
each and every one of them is a “mean lean fighting machine” if need
be! (smile)

It is true that an embassy may put out a bid for contractors for
construction and many other projects and there are regulations which
must be adhered to. In a lot of cases, the lowest bidder will often
win the contract unless it is a sole source contract (ie, not
biddable). I can’t comment on the wages though.

No; I don’t know who makes the blueberry muffins!

And it is my theory that every embassy (American and otherwise) always
have a local grump or two. I remember at an earlier posting one
individual who worked in the Consular section got the nickname “Mr.
No” as he got a reputation for being the most frequent official to
deny visas. But again, that is also regulated and if one meets all
the requirements without any background information that could be
questionable, a visa should be issued.

Best Regards,
Bedu
Aafke, on May 1, 2009 at 12:56 pm said:

mimi ameer, what where you about checking out the american marine hunks????
You should have had your eyes pinned to the ground!

You know who really look absolutely yummie? Swedish fighterpilots! I used to go to airshows with my father, and I love to see the groundshow of all the fighterplanes, and we saw, the Americans, the Russians, I think last time I even saw Saudi’s, and I was really keen to see the Russian MIG-29, but next to it was another of my favorites, the Grippen, and WAW!!!!! Lot’s of mega cute, very tall, handsome pilots! And they looked somehow so much neater and better turned out as the other pilots… And they were all very handsome…
American Bedu, on May 1, 2009 at 10:05 pm said:

@Aafke — okay, I’m going to be bad and go off topic here…but when
you mentioned airshows and pilots you struck a chord with me. My Dad
was a pilot in WWII and passed on his love of aviation to my brother
who also is a pilot. Me, I jumped out of perfectly good airplanes
instead! (LOL) My Dad took me and my sibs to airshows all our loves
– like you, I love ‘em.
anon, on May 1, 2009 at 10:53 pm said:

dear bedu,
Get you become a wasta for me?
mimi ameer, on May 1, 2009 at 10:59 pm said:

Thank you for answering .
Aafke, he was checking me out( or the wall behind me lol). No really, I’m more attracted to guys who are capable of growing a buddha belly & still look good. For some reason I think those type of men make good fathers:S. When I saw this marine dude, my eyeballs popped out of their sockets, he was huge! Then I giggled as I thought to myself: “all that toughness but he’d melt in the sun.” You know, just like drums, they make loud noises but inside they’re empty.(yea, say anything to make yourself feel better dear:P)
American Bedu, on May 2, 2009 at 2:00 am said:

Dear Anon,

sorry to disappoint you but I do not have any Wasta! That was the
main point of the post.

Best Regards,
Bedu
2em reina, on May 5, 2009 at 1:43 am said:

muslimaaaa,

please do not trust his sister or brother
i trusted them before we got married and during the first few months of our marriage,but they only took advantage of me and that i was the one who ran after him!the least thing he can do dear is go back to saudi arabia with an excuse of wanting to get you a permit,and he might leave you stuck out there alone…he has the power not to divorce you!seek immediate help,
yes they are muslims and in our religion a child stays with hi or her mother till the age of 7 or a bit more,but when it comes to a saudi,he might as well forget all about islam,afterall, it his his child.

i see no reason as well to settle down with him if ur positive he might take another wife(saudi)and believe me,u will regret it.ask someone who is there in ur shoes!!!!
tina, on May 11, 2009 at 7:37 am said:

AA Carol,

Happy Mothers Day!!! I know I wrote you a while back to get in contact with you again and have not done so yet. Insh’Allah I still have it on “my list of things I want to do!!! ” and have not forgot you! I just need to finish my list of things that no one else can do by themselves and need me to do for them!!! I’m sure as a mother and wife you can relate!!! ; ) Hope you are all well in Houston!
American Bedu, on May 11, 2009 at 8:51 pm said:

@Tina – although belated warmest Mother Day greetings to you as well!
And yes indeed, I can relate to the challenges of balancing as a wife,
mother and working outside of the home…we women are superwomen!
(smile)
Mel, on May 14, 2009 at 1:56 am said:

I have a weird question for you, one that I am somewhat embarrassed to ask my Muslim friends, but I’ve always been curious about. Anyway, in regards to the 5 prayer times and the fact they’re adjusted all the time for daylight/darkness, how does it work, say, if you were a Muslim in a place like Yellowknife or Tuktoyaktuk, Canada? It’s 24h daylight up there in the summer! Conversely, in the winter, it’s 24h darkness (ugh…I thought my city was bad…). Do you know?
American Bedu, on May 14, 2009 at 2:25 am said:

@Mel,

I actually did an early blog post on that very topic so I’ll need (or
if you’d like) to do a search on the topic and pull out the post!

Regards,
Carol
Mel, on May 14, 2009 at 2:30 am said:

No worries, Carol! Thanks for your reply – I’ll search your blog for it. I wondered about that after seeing friends’ photos of north of Yellowknife, and they asked me to guess what time it was in the photo and I guessed it was probably around noon (actually 3am!).

Cheers,
- Mel
Ally, on May 26, 2009 at 1:04 pm said:

I have just discovered your site an I think it is so informative and absorbing, I have already been reading for over an hour.

I don’t have any questions yet but I am sure I will. It is comforting to know where to come for answers.

Best Wishes

Ally
American Bedu, on May 26, 2009 at 8:05 pm said:

@Ally – Welcome and thank you for your comment. I’m glad you are enjoying and look forward to if/when you have any questions.
Ali, on May 30, 2009 at 12:34 pm said:

Bob

Yes. The Saudi wife can sponsor a nonSaudi husband by getting a commercial registration.
Ali, on May 30, 2009 at 12:51 pm said:

Bob

Alternatively. You can self-sponsor your self via GIA (http://sagia.gov.sa/english/) by opening a business 100% nonSaudi-owned even a restaurant.. To save the hassle, the service offices here will deliver to you a GIA licence turn-key in your hand. That will include residence & workpermits & licence to buy/own business premises & residence.
Ali, on May 30, 2009 at 8:12 pm said:

Dear Bedu,
‘I don’t know. If you know a foreign man sponsored by a Saudi wife in KSA I’d love to interview him! ‘ Yes, it is possible just call Asif 05008930873.
Ali, on May 30, 2009 at 8:14 pm said:

Correction 0508930873
Ali, on May 30, 2009 at 8:55 pm said:

Since sponsorship entails liability for expenses & as wife under Islam is not responsible for her husband’s expenses so she cannot directly sponsor her husband (otherwise she will be liable for his expenses) except as her employee under her business. While under Islam the husband is responsible for all his wife’s expenses so he can directly sponsor her.
American Bedu, on May 31, 2009 at 4:06 am said:

Thank you for all the updates and information!
Jane, on June 3, 2009 at 12:21 am said:

Dear American Bedu,

I’m an American college student living in the States and have recently become friends with a Saudi male I met in class. He is very sweet; he always takes me out, cooks me and my friends dinner, and showers me with compliments and gifts. I like him alot and I’m pretty positive he likes me too as more than a friend. I would love to date him but I’m not quite sure how to do that! From what I can tell, he is a very conservative Saudi (still a virgin, looking for a wife, doesnt drink, etc), so I don’t want to offend him or cause an awkward situation by leaning in for a kiss. But I really want to kiss him! What should I do? How should I act? What does he expect from me? Please be blunt about the “physicality” I am allowed to express because I really am clueless!
Thank you so much! And thank you for taking the time to make this website and thoughtfully answer questions, you’re so helpful!

Best wishes,
Jane
American Bedu, on June 3, 2009 at 1:52 am said:

Dear Jane,

The majority of Saudi women who are engaged to be married are virgins. If a Saudi woman is not a virgin before marriage then she is viewed as ‘fallen’ and her family loses face too. And when a Saudi woman has become engaged, generally it is an arranged marriage between the families. The prospective bride and groom will likely NOT have time alone together prior to the marriage. They may or may not be able to get to know one another via phone calls (it depends on how traditional the family is). So in sum, my advice is given what you have shared about the Saudi gentleman in question, if you were to “make a move on him” you may in fact end up losing face in his eyes. He may respond to you but perhaps not view you as suitable for a long term relationship.

Due to the segregation that takes place in Saudi Arabia, young adults have little to no opportunity to interact. Therefore some young adult Saudi males may also find it a real culture shock if they have not traveled often out of Saudi to find themselves in a Western environment which is non-segregated and quite open. Some of these Saudi males will jump in head first and enjoy the freedoms and liberties and others may be shy or conservative. But deep down in spite of how western they may appear or act, usually they remain true to their culture, tradition and customs.

Best Regards, Bedu
Mehvesh, on June 10, 2009 at 5:38 pm said:

Dear Bedu,
What is the procedure for a married woman to travel alone out of the Kingdom to another country? What kind of documentation does she need from her husband and what are the requirements?
Said woman doesn’t have any children, she’s travelling alone.
Thanks in advance!
Mev
American Bedu, on June 11, 2009 at 2:02 am said:

Dear Mehvesh,

Is the woman married to a Saudi? Is she married to an expat? Is she married but on a single-only contract? Who is her sponsor?

If she is married to a Saudi then she will need a document from her husband approving of such travel. If the husband does not accompany her to the airport, then the document will require an official stamp from the Ministry of Interior (Jawazat office).

If she is married to an expat then to my knowledge no approval documents are required.

If she is married but on a single only contract or her spouse is not her official sponsor in the Kingdom, then she will need approval from her sponsor (in the form of the exit visa).

In all cases, one must have an exit visa before being able to leave the Kingdom.

Regards, Bedu
Mehvesh, on June 11, 2009 at 2:55 pm said:

Thank you so much for the reply!
It’s for an expat woman, married to an expat and on his sponsership. I’m assuming there’s no need for official documentation in order to leave, as long as there is an exit visa.
Thanks once again, you’ve been a great help!
Best regards,
Mehvesh
American Bedu, on June 11, 2009 at 6:46 pm said:

@Mehvesh – You’re welcome and yes, you are correct. Having the exit visa will suffice for her travel.
American Bedu Blog Rules of Behaviour « American Bedu, on June 14, 2009 at 2:15 am said:

[...] Dear Bedu… [...]
Anna, on June 17, 2009 at 1:27 pm said:

Dear Bedu,

My husband has been offered a job in Saudi and we, family of 5, is keen to go. However I have a successful business in the UK as a wedding photographer and I am so wondering if I can pursue this career in the KSA? Am I allowed to work coming with my husband? Are woman allowed to photograph weddings and do people in general hire a photographer for their wedding in KSA?

Didn\’t know who to ask and found your blog.
Many thanks
Anna
American Bedu, on June 17, 2009 at 11:25 pm said:

@Anna – Coming to Saudi as a dependent of your husband means that you will be sponsored under his iqama and therefore your own iqama will likely say “not permitted to work.” However that being said, many enterprising women have found ways to do various types of freelancing. As a photographer, that should be even easier for you. You’ll need to market and advertise yourself but do bear in mind that if you plan to promote yourself to Saudis for Saudi weddings, that you would likely be taking photos of women only since most of the weddings are segregated. So yes, there is a market for female photographers in Saudi. Just make sure and become very familiar with the culture, customs and traditions particularly as pertaining to Saudi weddings.

Best Regards, Bedu
emancipatingmymind, on June 18, 2009 at 12:37 pm said:

Dear Bedu

Your blog is awesome and it provides a great insight to life in the Kingdom. I’m always fascinated by other cultures and people and with Medina being the city of my dreams, I love visiting your blog.

I rarely comment, cos once I get to the comment section, some people annoy me with their constant having to say something but that’s just me.

This is just to say thanks really
American Bedu, on June 18, 2009 at 7:44 pm said:

@Emancipating – Thank YOU! I also appreciate your candid feedback.
SamKhan, on June 24, 2009 at 8:52 am said:

Hi! Bedu,

I was wondering if you can let me know of any good ladies gyms or fitness clubs in Riyadh around AAMK Compound, Al-Sulaimaniya district, Tahlia Road? Though I’m not a fitness freak (yet), once I move to Riyadh in Dec after marriage i dont want to die of boredom there. I just can’t do home work outs

Also are there any ways to make female friends in Riyadh except through my husband’s acquaintances? Like ladies groups or clubs or meet ups?

Please advise (and i mean really let me know)

Thanks,
Sam
mariam, on June 24, 2009 at 5:00 pm said:

Dear Carol,
I hope all is going well for your family.
1. What is the story of that ADORABLE tiny kitten on your banner?
2. How about an article about Nicolas Sarkozy’s burqa statement from this week??? Should generate a few comments.
Best Regards,
Mariam
American Bedu, on June 25, 2009 at 3:29 am said:

@Mariam,

A dear friend knowing that I’ve been having a roller coaster time in Houston kindly put the kitty banner up to cheer me up knowing how much I not only love cats but am also missing my own kitties in Riyadh so much!

And funny how you read my mind…stay tuned…I do have my own take and questions for readers coming up in regards to Sarkozy’s statements!

Regards, Bedu
American Bedu, on June 25, 2009 at 3:32 am said:

@SamKhan,

You may wish to check out the Al Manihal Centre within the DQ in Riyadh as it is spa, salon, fitness center and training center with many activities.

Additionally check out Yibreen’s Spa and Salon off of Takhusseessee Street across from King Faisal Hospital. It also has lovely activities and facilities.

See if you can join the Canadian Women of Riyadh or British Women’s Association. Both of these groups are very active and have accepted members of multiple nationalities.

Lastly, please do check out my blog on things to do which also provide information on other options.

If you are not already, join the expatsinsaudiarabia@yahoogroups.com where you will make “virtual” expat friends prior to arrival.

Best Regards, Bedu
Expat in Saudi, on June 29, 2009 at 10:13 am said:

Hi American Bedu.

Just linked your blog to mine. I am really impressed by your blog. Feel free to link to mine if you like.

expatinsaudi
American Bedu, on June 29, 2009 at 8:05 pm said:

Expat in Saudi – glad to see you here! I will check out your blog. I have very much enjoyed reading your wise advise in the expatsinsaudiarabia newsgroup on yahoo.
Medina, on July 1, 2009 at 7:41 pm said:

Dear Bedu,
I am just aware of what is written in this blog just now, Unfortunately, this blog spreads negative stereotypes of unsuccessful relations between Saudis and western ladies. why do you concentrate on the negative examples of unsuccessful love stories? you should have balance and be just with Saudi people and speak about the good examples of true love between Saudis and their western wives that last forever and they live happily. it is really makes me sad that you work generally to reinforce bad stereotypes in western ladies’ minds about Saudi people and it is like you are warning ladies not to be involved with Saudis. You are judging Saudis by their culture not by their personal characters. And we know how Islamic culture is viewed in western culture. make sure you do bad things to Saudi people and your blog may destroy many love relations and cause pains to many people and hurt their feelings. I do not think that you will be happy to find someone destroying your love life by spreading negative stereotypes about how Americans treat their wives. Do you want me to tell you about how Americans treat their wives? I can write thousands of pages of how mean Americans are to their wives. but May God forgive you. And I strongly recommend that you give positive examples to your readers and always remind them that generalization is a big mistake and if there are some bad examples, we can work together to avoid them, but If you have a personal unsuccessful relationship with a Saudi husband, that does not mean that you destroy love life of other people by generalizing bad examples, I am really feel sad and you hurt my feelings by your posts. salam
radha, on July 1, 2009 at 10:47 pm said:

@medina –
“your blog may destroy many love relations and cause pains to many people and hurt their feelings”

If someone reads a blog and destroys a relationship, i for one think that reationship was doomed from the start. I think it’s a great idea that carol is portraying the realities of living in saudi married to a saudi. There are successful marriages but there are also lots of pitfalls and difficulties ( adjustments) that need to be made to live happily there. I think any new bride / thinking of being a new bride to a saudi will be better off knowing such stuff then landing there with rose colored lenses.
I think the saudi’s for most part are wonderful people – warm and hospitable i also happen to know what they do to non-saudi brides if they don’t like them no offense but in this situation i’d rather the young – in-love with a saudi girl go in with eyes wide open ( or as open as it can get).
American Bedu, on July 2, 2009 at 5:31 am said:

@medina – I realize you are new to my blog and I believe as you read more posts, you’ll find that it is more balanced in regards to relations and experiences than you realize. But when it does come to bi-cultural relationships between a Saudi and a western woman, the odds are high that it will end in divorce within the Kingdom. I do not believe in sugar-coating. I’ll provide facts and examples of both the good and the bad but in general if a western female university student seeks advice about a relationship she is engaged with a Saudi for her sake it is important that she know the facts behind Saudi students in the States and the prohibition placed on them to marry foreigners as well as make sure that young female westerner has done research on the traditions and cultures which are probably quite different to what she is accustomed too.

@radha – as another expat who has chosen to marry a Saudi, thanks for your wise comment too!
Medina, on July 2, 2009 at 12:24 pm said:

Dear Radha,
I always think that warning is not stating facts. to explain the law in Saudi Arabia, it is wisely one should be unbiased and isolate his/her prejudice from writing about the law. as I understand you are married with a Saudi and I think you are happy with him. hence, I did not find anyone posting positive examples here about marrying with Saudi guys, most of what written here is exaggerating the bad examples and it hold warnings and putting all Saudis in one basket. why do not you write about yourself and give us a good example? I do not like to speak about the negative things because most of people are critical when they speak, it is easy to be derogatory and to be negative than to be positive and here is the challenge.

@ Bedu, yes I am new to this blog, and as I said in my previous post, I just felt sad because concentrating is only on the bad examples not both, positive and negative which is common everywhere. I recommend that you take the information also from its correct resources especially when you write about the Saudi family law and don’t make of the bad examples that you propose a Saudi law. salam
radha, on July 2, 2009 at 6:32 pm said:

Medina,

There are plenty of happy marriages between saudi’s and non-saudi’s but there are higher number of unhappy ones. fact is that the kingdom is not a very fair place for an outsider especially a woman. So if a young girl in love with a saudi comes to me for advise i try and open her eyes wide as to what all can go wrong.. it’s better for her to know should the marriage go south / something happen to her spouse in saudi, she’s alone and has no rights to her own kids and could face an uphill battle with her in-laws. I don’t see this as the case in most other places in the world.
so it’s better taht the young girl is prepared and had plans which cannot be possible if everyone sugarcoats the happily ever after fairy tale.

yes, i’m happily married to a saudi but he’s also quite indianised/westernised. I doubt i would have lasted all that long had we lived in the kingdom. Also i have no contact with his saudi family, never visit the kingdom with my kids and never converted and live in a neutral 3rd country I was happy when i lived in the kingdom but let me tell you i have plenty of horror stories too . All this inspite of the fact my spouse is about 10% saudi and 90% indianised/westernised.
So i fully agree with what is written int his blog , think of it as information not criticism.
American Bedu, on July 2, 2009 at 8:40 pm said:

@Medina – I suggest you do a search using the search bar in the upper right corner of my blog on marriage and interview and you will find many postings with varied experiences and points of view.
Medina, on July 2, 2009 at 10:16 pm said:

@ radha, you posted the following “she’s alone and has no rights to her own kids and could face an uphill battle with her in-laws.”
can you tell me precisly in details according to saudi law, how she has no rights on her kids?

you posted also ” I was happy when i lived in the kingdom but let me tell you i have plenty of horror stories too”
do not you think that this is also a contradiction with what you posted?and I would be happy to know one of those horror stories because some people easily get scared if they see a small mouse in the kitchen and it can be a horrot story to them too.

also I am wondering where lab that you took your husband to is to check his saudi ID to give me these precide percents? I will be thankful to you if you can tell me about that lab and that kind of test to check myself as well.

@Berdu,
I will do the research.

salam all

@ Bedu,
American Bedu, on July 2, 2009 at 11:24 pm said:

@Medina – this post may shed some background for you on challenges a western wife faces if in the event the marriage does not work out:

http://americanbedu.com/2009/02/22/rights-of-an-american-saudi-wife-in-saudi-arabia/
Aafke, on July 3, 2009 at 12:08 am said:

Medina, and read the comments, especially Nzingha’s.
Medina, on July 3, 2009 at 12:41 am said:

@ bedu and Aafke,
I read the article and many comments there but I still do not trust the Lawyer’s words. simply, because His ID is not identifed and I am really shocked and can not believe that such unfair practices are happening in my country. so I will ask a lawyer in saudi about such issues and post my feedback here.
salam,
Medina, on July 3, 2009 at 3:28 am said:

The following information has been prepared by american Embassy in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, to assist United States citizens in understanding the cultural and legal differences they face when considering marriage to a Saudi citizen. The information was culled from interviews with Americans married to Saudis, most of whom were American women. While the majority of this document will address concerns specific to American women, American men may also want to consider these issues as well.

All the Americans interviewed strongly urged prospective spouses of Saudi men to visit the Kingdom and meet the Saudi in-laws before making a commitment to a culture very different in many respects from the one in which they were raised.

The American citizen spouse of a Saudi national is, with a handful of exceptions, female. Saudi women are prohibited from marrying non-Arabs except with a special dispensation from the King. (A dispensation is also required before a Saudi woman may marry an Arab who is not a citizen of the Gulf Cooperation Council, i.e. Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, Oman, and the United Arab Emirates.) Saudi families generally will not allow their daughters to marry non-Muslims, and conversion to Islam is often required before an American man could marry a Saudi woman. A few daughters of Saudi diplomats, raised and educated abroad, are known to have received royal dispensation for marriage to Europeans. Most Saudi women who are married to westerners reside abroad with their husbands.

WHAT TO EXPECT AND CONSIDER

Life in Saudi Arabia, a country that prides itself on its conservative interpretation and application of the Quran, (Koran) requires that couples talk about very basic lifestyle issues. Americans in Saudi Arabia suggest that Americans considering marriage to a Saudi discuss the following lifestyle issues with their prospective spouse before marrying or living in Saudi Arabia.

How cosmopolitan is the Saudi husband’s family?

All American wives encourage prospective brides to meet the Saudi family before arriving in Saudi Arabia as a married woman. While it is no guarantee of acceptance, a family that regularly travels abroad or one in which the father has been stationed abroad is generally more broad-minded when it comes to their son marrying a westerner. It is the parents who can be the greatest source of pressure on a dual-national marriage and it is important to determine their opinions of what an American wife can and cannot do while living in Saudi Arabia.

With whom will you live?

Many newly married couples move in with the groom’s parents, in a sprawling villa that may house several other siblings and their wives and families. There is no such thing as personal privacy and tensions with family members who for one reason or another, may resent the presence of an American wife, often make this living arrangement difficult. In a more affluent family, a couple may inhabit one of several homes in a small family compound. Some Saudis live separately in villas or apartments. While that may resolve the issue of privacy, many American wives find themselves completely isolated, surrounded by neighbors who only speak Arabic, and with no access to public or private transportation.

Western-style housing arrangements, which are rare, are often an apartment or villa located in a western compound or in the Diplomatic Quarter. In the Quarter, there is a semblance of western suburban life; however, most Saudi owners of compounds catering to non-Saudis ban Saudi tenants since they fear western inhabitants would object. The rare Saudi male who endorses this living arrangement is generally a naturalized Saudi of Lebanese or Palestinian origin. For the average Saudi family, residence in a western compound would be an unnatural renunciation of Saudi culture and would make one culturally “suspect.”

With whom will you socialize?

Saudis socialize within the family. Expatriates who have lived and worked for years in Saudi Arabia may never meet the wife of a close Saudi friend and, according to custom, should never so much as inquire about her health. For an American wife, a social life confined to her husband’s family can be stultifying, particularly since few American wives speak, or learn to speak, Arabic. Whether the Saudi husband permits his wife to socialize with men to whom they are not related determines how western a social life they will enjoy. Because of the segregated society, Saudi men naturally spend much of their time together, separate from wives and family. (Even Saudi weddings are segregated affairs, with observances for men and women often held on different evenings and in different locations.) Only the most westernized Saudi will commit to socializing with other dual-national couples.

What freedom of movement will you enjoy?

Women are prohibited from driving, riding a motorcycle, pedaling a bicycle, or traveling by taxi, train or plane without an escort. All American wives were aware that they would not be able to drive while in Saudi Arabia, but few comprehended just how restricted their movements would be. Only the relatively affluent Saudi family will have a driver on staff. Most American women depend entirely upon their husbands and male relatives for transportation. While most expatriate western women routinely use taxis, any woman married to a Saudi will be expected to have an escort – either another female relative or children – before entering the taxi of an unrelated male.

Will you and your children be permitted to travel separately from your husband or leave the country without him?

Travel by train or plane inside Saudi Arabia requires the permission of the male spouse and the presence of a male family escort. Travel outside Saudi Arabia is even more restricted. Everyone leaving Saudi Arabia must have an exit visa.

Women and children residing in Saudi Arabia as members of a Saudi household (including adult American citizen women married to Saudi men, adult American citizen women who are the unmarried daughters of Saudi fathers, and American citizen boys under the age of 21 who are the sons of Saudi fathers) require the permission of the Saudi male head of their household to leave the country. Married women require the permission of their husband to depart the country, while unmarried women and children require the permission of their father or male guardian. The U.S. Embassy can intercede with the Saudi government to request exit permission for an adult American woman (wife or daughter of a Saudi citizen), but may not be able to obtain permission for the departure of minor children without the father’s agreement.

Temporary visitors normally do not need an exit permit but may be prevented from departing the country if they are involved in a legal dispute.

Will you be permitted to work?

There are two hurdles an American wife must overcome before finding work outside the home: the disapproval of the family and the lack of employment opportunities, particularly if the wife does not speak Arabic. Most husbands will not approve of a wife working outside the home if it entails contact with unrelated men. Employment is generally restricted to the fields of education (teaching women students only) and medicine. Unfortunately, there is a tremendous social bias against the nursing profession and most Saudi husbands would not approve of a wife working with patients, except as a physician.

Will your husband take a second wife?

Among the younger generation, it is rare for a Saudi to have a second wife, but it does occur. A man is legally entitled to up to four wives, with the proviso that he be able financially and emotionally to accord them equal status.

Religion

In principle, all Saudi men must marry Muslims or converts to Islam. In practice, many American women blur the issue, participating in a Sharia (Islamic) wedding ceremony but never actually converting.

Pressure to convert to Islam is enormous and never-ending. There is no separation of church and state in Saudi Arabia, and at the popular level there is simply no comprehension of religious freedom or the desire to remain another religion or undecided. Children born to a Saudi man are considered to be Muslim at birth. Women who do not convert can find it difficult to accept that their children, through hours of Islamic education a day at school and under the tutelage of the family, will be practicing Muslims. Women who do convert may find that their conversion, particularly in the aftermath of a divorce, is suspect and their fidelity to Islam perceived to be less than their husband’s.

Family

Saudi Arabia has one of the highest birthrates in the world and families with five or more children are the norm. The family is the basic unit of Saudi life and family members may have much closer relations than in the United States. Every family member feels free to give an opinion on any facet of another family member’s life. Siblings – particularly an older brother – are expected to aid each other financially, and males must band together to guard the honor of their female relations. Children are not expected or encouraged to leave home even when they are adults.

What will it be like to raise a daughter?

Cultural differences are never greater than when it comes to the role of women, and a mother raising a daughter in Saudi Arabia can anticipate that her daughter’s upbringing will be very different from her own and that her daughter will have dreams and expectations that her mother may not share. Growing up in Saudi Arabia, a young girl may naturally look forward to the day when she comes of age and can wear the abaya and cover her hair. She will naturally be very devout. She may be expected to marry a first cousin. For a Saudi girl, this may be the natural state of affairs; for an American mother of a Saudi girl, it can be unsettling.

If the Marriage Fails

In the worst scenario, an American wife can find herself summarily divorced, deported, and deprived of any right of visitation with her children. Sharia (Islamic) law decidedly favors men in the dissolution of marriage, and the laws of Saudi Arabia require that all individuals be sponsored by a Saudi citizen in order to receive a visa, resident or otherwise. Therefore, once a marriage breaks up, the American must leave Saudi Arabia and, in most cases, may only return with the explicit permission and sponsorship of her ex-husband.
If a Saudi husband attempts to prevent his wife from leaving, the Embassy can call upon Saudi authorities to facilitate the American’s departure. The Embassy cannot force a Saudi husband to relinquish the children.

The basis for marriage under Shari’a Law is the marriage contract, which is negotiated between the prospective husband and wife prior to marriage. The signing of the contract by the bride and groom and their witnesses in front of a Shari’a Court official is the legal beginning of the marriage. The contract can include prenuptial agreements concerning the custody and place of residence of children and the wife’s ability to depart Saudi Arabia if the marriage should be terminated by death of the husband or divorce. An American citizen considering marriage to a Saudi citizen can obtain Saudi legal counsel to assist in negotiating the marriage contract to include agreements of this nature. It is the Embassy’ s understanding that prenuptial agreements written into the marriage contract as an integral part of the contract will be subsequently honored by a Saudi Shari’a Court.

What custody rights do women have under Sharia law?

Theoretically, a mother should maintain custody the children until the ages of 7-9, when their primary care would be transferred to their father. However, the ultimate objective of a Sharia court in the settlement of custody issues is that the child be raised a good Muslim. Whether a convert or not to Islam, an American woman will not overcome the prejudice against her upbringing and society.

Can an American be denied visitation rights to his or her children?

A Saudi parent must give explicit permission for an ex-spouse to visit their children in Saudi Arabia. The Embassy has worked with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to create the “no-objection” visa. The ex-husband must be willing to sign a statement that he has no objection to his ex-spouse visiting Saudi Arabia. In that statement, the Saudi parent would establish how long he or she is willing to let the ex-spouse remain in the country. The history of no-objection visas is mixed.

A Saudi parent often objects to the emotional disruption of a visit from the American parent. Often a Saudi husband’s second wife can become jealous, and the American mother may find that her visit is restricted in time and carried out in full view of the extended Saudi family.

I will add another point, in case the saudi husband died, the custody of the children and any unborn child would remain with the closest living Saudi male relative. But I am not sureof the case if the husband wrote an official agreement before he dies that the custody of the children will go to their mum.

I will ask about this point too.
salam
Medina, on July 3, 2009 at 3:38 am said:

Saudi Arabia has pledged to take steps toward removing rules requiring a woman to have a male guardian at all times, saying there is no such legal requirement, a rights organisation said.

Saudi rights officials committed in a review with the UN Human Rights Council to take steps to end the male guardianship rule, to give women full legal identity and to ban discrimination by gender, Human Rights Watch (HRW) said in a statement from Geneva on Saturday.

HRW said that during the review Saudi officials said the Islamic sharia law concept of male guardianship does not exist in Saudi law.

“Islam guarantees a woman’s right to conduct her affairs and enjoy her legal capacity,” the Saudi officials said, according to HRW.

In Saudi Arabia much of life is governed by the strict Wahhabi branch of Islam and law is heavily based on sharia, or Islamic law.

Women are required to have male guardians to move in public, travel abroad, get married or even access many public services. They are also prevented from driving, making the country the only one in the world with such a restriction.

Many women, especially in the commercial sector, have been agitating to have such rules changed, but face tough resistance from hardline clerics who have powerful influence over the legal system.

HRW said the Saudi officials also pledged to end the practice of executing people for crimes committed as juveniles, noting that Saudi Arabia is one of only five countries in the world that allow it.

The Saudis “should now work to carry out these reforms rapidly,” HRW said.

On February 6, Saudi officials submitted their rights record to the scrutiny of the UN Human Rights Council for the first time, defending some of the religious concepts behind Saudi law but arguing that conditions were improving

source, http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/saudis-vow-to-loosen-laws-on-women-hrw-20090614-c6vk.html

salam
American Bedu, on July 3, 2009 at 4:09 am said:

@Medina – I appreciate the info you have posted. In fact I posted the embassy’s guidance on the blog about 2 years ago. I won’t repeat it but just wanted to let you know.

Of course you are welcome to consult with another Saudi lawyer. It is good to have multiple opinions. I don’t think you will find many differences though.

And yes…unless a Saudi husband made previous legal arrangements with a Saudi lawyer and filed under Sharia law pertaining to foreign wife and care of the children, the decisions are indeed made by the next male mahrem in line, whether a brother or father-in-law.
radha, on July 3, 2009 at 6:17 am said:

medina,

I’m assuming you got all your answers. Do check with a lawyer, it’s shoking but unfortunately true. As for your questions to me. One of my horror stories involves my souse in an accident and his not so friendly to me family taking over. belive me strange country , spouse in hosp unconsious , Family around him not permitting your decisions, your brother-in-law who cannot stand you potentially becoming your mahrem ( temporarily) .. that’s the kind of horror story i’m talking about. If somehting had happened to my kids there’s nothing the indian embassy could have done if my in-laws decided to take the kids into their care and get me deported…to me that’s worse than death. I also freaked out and called his more accepting brother from ireland. poor chap left his 7 month pregnant wife adn flew down to riyadh to become my mahrem in case somehting was going to go south, hence the eg of a warm loving saudi . Once my spouse was back to the land of living he took care that such a thing never happens adn we lived quite happily without me much any contact with his family. I could tell you countless incidents. try talking to a non-muslim married to a saudi – and the pressures to convert , could write a book in itself:-)
As for the percentages, i roughly calculated them based on the time he spent insaudi and elsewhere. born in saudi does not make one a saudi. he is culturally influenced a lot by india and the US. He speaks hindi and tamil ( regional lang in india) fluently. He did his high school adn got his medical degree from india and US, Culturally he’s very different from a lot of saudi’s we know hence the % . no need for a lab.

sorry carol for the long comment. and i’m off to see the niagara falls with visiting relatives from india. have a good july 4th .
Medina, on July 3, 2009 at 7:23 pm said:

Dear Bedu,
Thankks for your comments and I am really shocked by such information but I can tell you that this situation will change soon. saudi society is under tremedous change, we change very fast and if you comapre saudi arabia before 50 years ago and saudi arabia today, I am sure you will be glad of the fast change that we made in all different fields. we need people just to be patient because many saudis believe in change but they are afraid from the bad consequnces of change which could lead to chaos at the expense of security in the society.

@ Radha,
well then you can say he is indian culturally.but how did he get the saudi nationality, was he born in saudi or he was included by new legistlation of ID law? anyway, you are welcome.
salam
American Bedu, on July 3, 2009 at 7:33 pm said:

@Medina – my pleasure! If you do not mind my asking, how long have you been out of the Kingdom? And what age range are you? Do you plan to return anytime soon to Saudi?
Medina, on July 3, 2009 at 10:30 pm said:

Dear Bedu,
my pleasure, I left saudi in 2007, for studying in australia. and I am 30, single. I will go back home for a visit at the Christmas break.

let me tell you how I jumped into this blog accidently, I am interested in writing about cuture especially about saudi cultural norms. I googled ” saudi culture” and found myself here writing in your blog LOL.
Salam!
American Bedu, on July 3, 2009 at 10:56 pm said:

@Medina – thank you very much for responding to my queries. hmmm…I do not get as many opportunities to interview Saudi males and have their perspectives shared. If you would be interested, email me at admin@americanbedu.com
daifuku, on July 5, 2009 at 1:16 am said:

Yes, umm *-* this is embarassing. I know Chiara had her contact information somewhere on the site, and I didn’t know where to ask her to post it again. If it is okay, I would really like to contact her . I hope I’m not being rude or anything.
daifuku, on July 5, 2009 at 1:17 am said:

I forgot to say thank you. “Thank you.” =)
American Bedu, on July 5, 2009 at 1:56 am said:

I’ve no doubt she will see this comment and respond to you!
Chiara, on July 5, 2009 at 3:49 am said:

Daifuku–Yes! Just saw it. Here is my email:

chiaraazlinquestion@yahoo.com

I look forward to an incoming from “Daifuku” LOL
Irina, on July 9, 2009 at 3:37 pm said:

Dear Bedu,
i want to ask to post more information about islamic wedding. After your recent article (‘Saudi Marriages: A Bi-Cultural Couple Speak Out’ July 9, 2009) and comments below it, i found out that i personally dont know much about it. Plus there r a lot of words i just dont understand like ‘niqah and the waleema.’ or ‘mahr’.There was sth about contract either that wasnt completely clear for me (what does this contract say? is it similar to contracts in western countries?).
The comments under the article r very useful and do give a lot of information about this topic, but i would ask more structured and full information if it is possible.
So if u find that this will be interesting and useful for other readers and u have time a will to fulfil my request, i would be very gratefull
All the best,
Ira
Aafke, on July 9, 2009 at 3:45 pm said:

Irina, read this post and comments:
http://americanbedu.com/2008/06/21/islamic-marriage-contracts-what-should-you-know/
Aafke, on July 9, 2009 at 3:48 pm said:

Marriage in Saudi Arabia isn’t the bonding with your soulmate we consider, or hope, it to be: it really is a contract: putting many duties on the woman, and a few on the men but as men can have it any way they want in Saudi Arabia they don’t have to keep to those. Also in other countries you see sharia courts dealing rather loosely with the man’s duties in marriage.
Aafke, on July 9, 2009 at 4:06 pm said:

This is only one of bedu’s interviews any western woman involved with a saudi man should have a good look at.
http://americanbedu.com/2009/06/01/a-former-saudi-wife-speaks-out/
Irina, on July 9, 2009 at 4:14 pm said:

Aafke,
thank u for your response!
Aafke, on July 9, 2009 at 4:36 pm said:
American Bedu, on July 9, 2009 at 9:24 pm said:

@Irina – Sure…

You may find the following links useful from previous postings about marriage:

http://americanbedu.com/2009/05/23/marriage-to-a-saudi-can-be-confusing/

http://americanbedu.com/2008/06/21/islamic-marriage-contracts-what-should-you-know/

http://americanbedu.com/2007/12/13/arranged-marriages-in-saudi-questions-for-the-groom/

There are other posts which you can search using the term “marriage” but I think the ones cited are most pertinent to your query.

Best Regards, Bedu
American Bedu, on July 9, 2009 at 9:25 pm said:

@Aafke – and thank you my dear for the assistance too!

On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 9:24 PM, Carol Fleming wrote: > @Irina – Sure… > > You may find the following links useful from previous postings about marriage: > > http://americanbedu.com/2009/05/23/marriage-to-a-saudi-can-be-confusing/ > > http://americanbedu.com/2008/06/21/islamic-marriage-contracts-what-should-you-know/ > > http://americanbedu.com/2007/12/13/arranged-marriages-in-saudi-questions-for-the-groom/ > > There are other posts which you can search using the term “marriage” > but I think the ones cited are most pertinent to your query. > > Best Regards, > Bedu > > > On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 3:37 PM,
Aafke, on July 9, 2009 at 11:12 pm said:

I knew it was dead of night for you and you’d be asleep, so I added the link.
Irina, on July 10, 2009 at 8:30 am said:

Bedu and Aafke,
thank u for answers
i will read those information carefully!
UmMohamed, on July 12, 2009 at 1:52 am said:

Peace and greetings,
We are an American Muslim family residing in KSA for 6 years. My family and and I have benefitted from many diffferent aspects of the saudi culture. My only dilemna is that I have a 20 year old special needs son who is in need of vocational/job training. I have gone to various institutes and appealed to them but as his arabic is limited and he is not a national they have been unable to help him, Can you please network me to agencies,people,parents,etc that would be willing to offer support and a chance for my son, All he wants is a chance to live his life to his fullest potential. God bless!
American Bedu, on July 12, 2009 at 5:26 pm said:

@UmMohamed,

You’ve raised a very sensitive issue. While catering to those who require special needs in Saudi Arabia is improving, it is happening very slowly. And as you highlighted, if you are not a Saudi National, then options are even more limited.

What institutions and organizations have you already approached? Have you also appealed to any masjid or islamic center or WAMY to see if they can provide any assistance?

Regards, Bedu
daifuku, on July 12, 2009 at 6:41 pm said:

Um Mohamed-In which region do you reside?
My cousin, had job training & is currently working in a factory. It’s not much. If you don’t have any reservations over him working in a factory, I will seek further information.
UmMohamed, on July 12, 2009 at 8:24 pm said:

Dear Bedu and friends,
I’ve gone from local places,schools,hospitals and the Prince Salman Center in Riyadh. I know that there are alot of good people out there so I’m appealing them. If there is anyone who would be willing to provide an apprenticeship for my special needs son please contact me at my e-mail: umiamana@yahoo.com Also,any parents of english speaking special needs chilren(10yrs and above) may contact me. May Allah help facilitate a way to help us to pursue and achieve our endeavors. Jazak Allahu Khair
American Bedu, on July 12, 2009 at 10:21 pm said:

@Um Mohamed – I was going to refer you to the Prince Salman Center. You did not get any assistance from them?

Have you considered writing a piece for Arab News? That would certainly help bring a wider audience to yours and probably challenges others have as well.
Chiara, on July 13, 2009 at 12:14 am said:

UmMohamed

Are you looking only in the Riyadh area? Is there any possibility of your son doing an apprenticeship in a nearby Gulf Country eg in a sheltered environment with a supervised residence (unlikely I know) or with other family or friends in a nearby country?
What about an organization in the States, where you may have family or friends willing to provide lodging and support? Goodwill Industries Internation, and Goodwill/Amity Group specialize in training, finding employment for and employing individuals with a variety of special needs. Also, as all job seekers find, nationality and language skills matter!

I agree that writing a news article for a prominent paper would reach a broader audience for your request, highlight the need for others, and perhaps also give you the basis for forming your own support group, or self help group. There is a lot of information online for how to start one, and keep it going. I already have a number of links for research done on another special need but generic to all. Let me know if you are interested and I will send them to you by email.

Good luck and all the best!
UmMohamed, on July 13, 2009 at 6:02 pm said:

Dear American Bedu and Chiara,
Thank-you for your suggestions. Prince Salman Center has been in talks with major companies for over a year but its going to take time. I want to try my best to remain here and keep the family together…. so I will continue to search. Chiara,please e-mail the information to me. Jazak Allahu khair
Chiara, on July 13, 2009 at 8:21 pm said:

Um Mohamed–I just sent the email. I understand the desire to stay local, and family support is so important to a special needs person. All the best.
Abu Sinan, on July 21, 2009 at 5:36 pm said:

Carol,

Have you seen this:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ten-saudis-seek-asylum-after-princess-is-allowed-to-stay-1754396.html

Saudi princess gets asylum because she had a child out of wedlock with a Brit? It would make an interesting post!
American Bedu, on July 21, 2009 at 6:02 pm said:

Thanks Abu Sinan – I sure did see it. I’m still in a wait and reading all the news mode on this topic.
Melissa, on July 26, 2009 at 1:51 pm said:

Hello,

Just came across your blog by accident and found it very interesting. I think you capture the sentiments of women in Saudi Arabia very well!

Good luck to you and keep up the great work!
American Bedu, on July 26, 2009 at 5:50 pm said:

Welcome and thank you Melissa!
Monica in DC, on July 29, 2009 at 5:09 pm said:

I don’t know if you will see this but hopefully… might even make an interesting post. Its about a blind Muslim woman in Detroit who, due to religious beliefs, can not/will not.. have a seeing eye dog, so instead she got a seeing-eye pony!

http://gmy.news.yahoo.com/vid/14792577
American Bedu, on July 29, 2009 at 11:53 pm said:

@Monica – what a fascinating video and thanks for sharing! I had never heard of a seeing-eye pony before and didn’t realize they could even be trained as such.
SingSongGirl, on August 7, 2009 at 7:30 am said:

Is it legal for an American couple teaching English in Yanbu to live if they are not married? People have been suggesting that we should tell everyone that we are married and wear wedding rings. I mostly want to know if it is illegal because I would not do anything illegal.
Stephanie, on August 7, 2009 at 7:50 am said:

I just came across your website today after discovering Sand Gets In My Eyes a few weeks ago and I love it! I am very interested in these types of blogs that have American perspectives on KSA.
I began dating a Saudi in April while we were both undergrads at the same university. We have since graduated and now live on different continents which is making things rather difficult. However, I really want to learn more about his country. He says I have way too many assumptions about KSA as an American and I believe everything I read. I consider myself well-traveled and very open-minded, but I can’t help but be a little shocked about some of the things I hear.
Therefore I will enjoy hearing about your thoughts as an American in Riyadh. I am also intrigued by your career as a diplomat. I just graduated with a degree in International Studies and my goal is to have a career in foreign service.
Thank you and I can’t wait to keep reading!
umm fatimah, on August 7, 2009 at 12:25 pm said:

Hi there, i have a quick question and i was hoping you could be of some help. Im moving to saudi in a months time and have a three month old baby, i was feeling a little concerned about the quality of the water in saudi with regards to giving it to my daughter. I dont think bottle water is an alternative because i was told it contains some level of salt which isnt good for a new born. do you have any suggestions on what i can do? are there any other health concerns that i should take into account with regards to the baby?
would really appreciate any advice that you could give.
kind regards
American Bedu, on August 7, 2009 at 8:55 pm said:

@SingSongGirl – Welcome to the blog and thanks for posing your question. No; it is not legal for an unmarried couple to live together in Saudi. That would be taking a huge risk. If you were reported you could be asked to show documented proof and without proof, both of you could be arrested and ultimately deported. In addition when out in public there is always a risk of being asked to show proof of relationship although that is less likely to happen with a Western couple.

@Stephanie – Welcome and thank you for the compliments. I would suggest that in addition to my blog and SGIME, do read the blogs which I have cited in my blog roll as they are also specific to Saudi Arabia. In my personal view one has to read a variety of sources in order to get a fuller picture of the realities and contradictions of Saudi Arabia!

@Umm Fatima – I’m not an expert anymore on the care of little ones but some advice I would give is to be careful of the sun. Make sure to keep her skin and eyes protected. In regards to the water, in my personal view I believe the bottled water would be fine. I’m not aware of too many folks who drink the water direct from the tap in Saudi. Lastly make sure her immunizations are up to date and once you’ve arrived and settled in, you might want to get in touch with a good pediatrician.
Maha, on August 9, 2009 at 1:02 am said:

Dear Bedu,

First off, I love your blog. You Rock! Secondly, I wanted to know if you could assist me in something. I am currently recruiting native speakers for teaching positions. It’s an English-based nursery I’m opening in October. In the afternoons, it’ll be an activity center for kids. Do you know of enthusiastic native speakers who are looking for jobs? If so, please refer them to via my e-mail please. Thank youuuuuuuuu:-)
American Bedu, on August 9, 2009 at 2:09 am said:

Dear Maha,

Thank you for your kind words and I wish you all the best with your endeavor!

Regards, Bedu
jiji, on August 12, 2009 at 12:24 am said:

I REALLY want to marry an american guy !! they are cool and handsome ….i love them this way we will improve this crazy relation between the two countries what do you think?
any blu eyed muslim american interested ?
I LOVE YOUR BLOG !!
zahara, on August 13, 2009 at 10:11 am said:

assalaam aleikum

i can’t bring myself to throw away cardboard in the trash, with the result that the tower behind my kitchen door is now threatening to collapse; any day now will be the last straw…
and i’m sure some other family has been sneaking in and dumping their rice krispies packets, because it’s not possible that one family can have eaten so many rice krispies in under one year.

PLEASE PLEASE TELL ME WHERE I CAN RECYCLE CARDBOARD IN RIYADH before we drown in rice krispies packets

jazakallahu khair
American Bedu, on August 14, 2009 at 12:15 am said:

Salam Alaikum,

Welcome Zahara!

You mention you are in Riyadh. Are you living on a compound or in an apartment? If so, ask the manager where cardboard can be recycled.

I had written an earlier post on recycling in Saudi Arabia: http://americanbedu.com/2008/11/07/saudi-arabias-stance-on-recycling/ but it does not seem to be a priority –yet– in Riyadh.

Does anyone else know where to go in Riyadh?
Abu Abdullah, on August 18, 2009 at 11:30 am said:

Carol,
Can you throw some light on the swine flu at the kingdom.
And screening procedures…
Off late many doctors in riyadh are referring almost all the people who have cold with travel history for screening.
American Bedu, on August 19, 2009 at 12:36 am said:

Abu Abdullah,

To my knowledge there have been 14 deaths thus far in the Kingdom due to H1N1 or H1N1 related. Additionally one of the UN organizations published a report on H1N1 and its spread in the GCC. Saudi Arabia has the highest incidence of cases than any country in the GCC. As a result, special screening measures have been put in place for arrivals into the Kingdom such as heat screening towards indicating fever, etc. There is also a toll free hot line that has been set up by the Ministry of Health to address any questions or concerns. It was posted in ALL the major newspapers in English and Arabic. I don’t have that at my fingertips right now though.
Abu Abdullah, on August 19, 2009 at 12:33 pm said:

Thanks Carol,
Yes what you say is correct. In Riyadh Shamaisi Hospital is the sole responsible for testing for H1N1.
American Bedu, on August 19, 2009 at 5:08 pm said:

You’re welcome Abu Abdullah.
Mark, on August 25, 2009 at 6:24 pm said:

Assalam aleikum
Mark, on August 25, 2009 at 6:29 pm said:

I am a certified water treatment operator with certification in both Hawaii and Colorado. I grew up in Jeddah. How would one go about searching for a job in this field, anywhere in the kingdom.

Shoukran

Mark
American Bedu, on August 25, 2009 at 7:16 pm said:

Hi Mark,

You may find this earlier post helpful for you:

http://americanbedu.com/2009/08/17/how-to-get-a-job-in-saudi-arabia/

Regards, Bedu
Waheed, on August 26, 2009 at 3:31 pm said:

Dear,
I need your advice for the accomodation of a single western woman in Riyadh, who will soon move here from Europe. What would be the best place for her to live. She is a new Muslim. Do you think Diplomatic Quarter is the best place for her for residence since she can walk easily alone and can have sports acitivities inside DQ even without having any man with her. But it is difficult to find a place in DQ because its expensive and also they said all is occupied. Do you know any other similar area in Riyadh? What about a suitable compound? but they are very expensive, our budget is 25 thousand riyals per year. Please advice. Thank you. Waiting for your reply.
American Bedu, on August 26, 2009 at 5:08 pm said:

@Waheed,

I do believe it is better and usually more comfortable for a single female to live in a compound or within the DQ. There are some apartments in the DQ but I’m not sure if they are less than 25,000 SAR since DQ housing is a premium.

FAL compound does have efficiency apartments which are within your budget and because they are efficiency, people come in and go so they have regular vacancies. Bear in mind though that an efficiency is like one large room with separate (small) areas for bedroom, sitting room and kitchen. Then it has a separate bath with shower only. But it does come with all the amenities of the compound.

Hope this helps and good luck.

Regards, Bedu
coolred38, on August 26, 2009 at 10:02 pm said:

Hi Carol…I was hoping you would allow a link to my latest blog post on your blog…not sure if this is the proper place to ask that but if you read the post it will be more clear. Thanks.
American Bedu, on August 26, 2009 at 10:30 pm said:

@coolred – of course you can link!!
coolred38, on August 27, 2009 at 1:14 am said:

Carol…thank you.

http://coolred38.blogspot.com/2009/08/its-over-peoplethe-fat-lady-has-sung.html
Andrea, on August 28, 2009 at 1:35 pm said:

Dear Carol,
I’ve always wondered… Why does it seem like there are two monitors/administrators on your site? You answer or comment on a post or question directed at you, and then this other person does.. as though he/she thinks the question is directed at her (as opposed to commenting as an outsider with input). It’s confusing and often distracting. Is this a blog-specific style you’ve adopted.. yourself and your alter-ego? Or someone who just wishes they were you?
xo,
Bemused observer A
American Bedu, on August 28, 2009 at 6:12 pm said:

Dear Bemused Observer,

Thank you for your astute observation. I assure you I am the only moderator of this blog. I recognize the issue you are referring to and am guessing you had read comments that were not as recent as I am confident this issue has been resolved so there should not be anymore confusion. And no….I do not possess an alter-ego! (LOL)

Regards, Bedu
Lizziebennet, on August 31, 2009 at 7:43 pm said:

Dear Bedu,

My husband and I have signed a contract to teach at Taibah university just outside Madinah. We are both Christians and will not be allowed within the city limits. I have searched for information has to what amenities there are outside of the city limits and have yet to find much information. Do you know someone who might be able to help us out with information in this regard.

Sincerely,

Lizzie
American Bedu, on August 31, 2009 at 8:07 pm said:

@Lizzie,

First of all Congratulations to you and your husband on your upcoming assignments!

I am happy to tell you that I have an article coming up soon about Medina. Additionally there are some Saudis who regularly comment on my blog who are from Medina and I am sure they will also respond.

I wish I could add more but I am not as familiar with Medina as with other cities. I do know there are many shopping opportunities, museums and lots of nature activities.
Abu Abdullah, on September 8, 2009 at 11:50 am said:

Carol,
Whats your opinion on this filipino news article about Filipinos reverting to Islaam in Saudi Arabia..

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/pinoy-migration/09/08/09/ramadan-inspires-some-saudi-pinoys-convert

Well i am sure the message of Islaam does appeal to them.

But also this news article could serve as a good example as to how expats are treated despite the common banter that saudis are racist as you would find in some of the readers comments here…
American Bedu, on September 8, 2009 at 6:15 pm said:

It is a very interesting article and thanks for bringing it to my attention.

I have encountered many Muslim Filipinos in Saudi Arabia. Some, like the article states, have chosen Islam for all of the right reasons. However there are some others, mainly women in my experience, who believe they need to make the image of having converted whether it is due to marriage to a muslim or for work, but in fact have just done this for appearances sake while remaining true to their other faith.

I know that when anyone in Saudi wishes to learn more about Islam, whether already a muslim or not, so many Saudis want to open their arms and assist.
Abu Sinan, on September 8, 2009 at 6:57 pm said:

Good points Carol, besides, someone converting to Islam doesnt really have to do anything with Saudi. Islam is not Saudi, and Saudi is not Islam.

Many people, like myself, have converted to Islam although having major issues with the Saudi culture and Saudi government.

The post actually highlights a major issue in that many Saudis actually think Saudi, in and of itself, is always an accurate representation of what Islam is all about. This couldnt be further from the truth.

I know one convert who lived in Saudi for a year and decided to leave Islam because he made the same mistake. He confused Saudi society with Islam and because of the way he was treated in Saudi, decided Islam wasnt for him.

Besides, as a Muslim, it is VERY clear that who comes to Islam and who doesnt is decided by God, not by the actions of people, no matter how nice.

Many converts, like myself, have decided to stay Muslim DESPITE the dysfunctional nature of most Muslim countries and communities, not because of them.

Alhamdulillah. “Abu Abdullah” needs to remember that hediya comes from God, not Saudi Arabia.
Daisy, on September 15, 2009 at 6:45 am said:

Hi Carol,
See what you think of this webpage – http://zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/islamic_mo_full/
American Bedu, on September 15, 2009 at 9:32 pm said:

@Daisy,

It is a very interesting page. I liked reading the history. I could be wrong but I had thought there was controversy in that the Prophet’s face was not to be shown?
Stella Hill, on September 16, 2009 at 5:04 am said:

Dear Bedu,

I have always been attracted to the Middle East and have been granted the opportunity to come teach at a university in Saudi Arabia. I am a single Canadian female. I have gone to Niger and traveled to difficult areas. I have been told that it is extremely dangerous and that even dancing and alcohol is illegal. I am also frightened about the laws concerning men and women who are not related and not even being able to speak with the opposite sex in public. Something in my heart has always had me intrigued by this country but everyone is warning me from going. Do you have any advice on a foreign single woman living in Saudi Arabia, would you suggest I not come or that the media take on the country is far exaggerated?
American Bedu, on September 16, 2009 at 6:41 am said:

Dear Stella,

Thank you for writing. What you have stated is true in that Saudi Arabia is a conservative country where alcohol is illegal and public mingling between sexes is prohibited. Naturally the media do play up these aspects of Saudi Arabia since they spark interest but I’d like to say that Saudi Arabia also offers so many positives too which do not get attention. If you search my blog with key words like Riyadh or things to do or expat woman or single woman you will find many previous posts I have written on this exact subject.

I would also like to point out that depending on what one enjoys, as an expat there are opportunities for free mingling, dancing and other entertainment. Such entertainment will take place at private compounds, private residences or in the Diplomatic Quarter.

My advice to you is to make a list of the pros and cons for YOU pertaining to accepting the position in Saudi Arabia. What do YOU want, what you can or can not do without and what you figure are the gains versus the losses of taking a position to Saudi Arabia.

I am happy to give you continued views and answer any other queries you may have.

Wishing you all the best, Bedu
Daisy, on September 16, 2009 at 9:52 am said:

Hi Carol,
Yes there is a definite Islamic injunction against painting the figure of the Prophet but it seems the Islamic cultures never took this injunction seriously till very recent times – this page shows that. It’s surprising how orthodox modernity has made all of us – in or out of Islam! I had once read another book called Aisha the Beloved of Muhammad by Nabia Abbot, published sometime in 1940s – she was a Saudi woman who went to study in the US and came back to write this book. It explores the history of Islam in the Prophet’s times through the biography of Ayesha. And she has made some quite frank comments about the condition of women in those times – those kind of comments are not possible to make anymore – in or out of Saudi Arabia. The book is still being sold on Amazon, you can read it if you like. Incidently she has also written about how the injunction on women’s veiling came about – one of the wives of the Prophet had quite a large physique and when she went out people laughed at her. Hence, one of his friends came to him and said that she should cover herself with a chador or something because it doesn’t look nice if people laugh at the Prophet’s wife. The very next day the Prophet got this revelation that the women should veil themselves etc. The point is not whether this is a historically valid narrative, but the important point is that in 1940s it was possible for a Saudi woman to publish such a narrative and continue to live in Saudi-A!
American Bedu, on September 16, 2009 at 6:37 pm said:

Thanks, Daisy and very interesting indeed.

Once one is out of KSA and starts looking around, there are so many books available depicting different aspects of the Kingdom and its history that cannot be found within KSA.
Anonymous, on September 23, 2009 at 7:51 pm said:

In the name of Allah, the Most Compassionate, the Most Merciful.

May Allah’s Peace and Blessing be upon you.

I am amazed as you are a Muslim, your blog does not contain much remembrance of Allah, the Lord of the Worlds. I know the function of the blog is about Saudia Arabia but still you should begin your post with the basmala formula and give your salam to the Muslims. That’s one reason why I do not hang around much. I have seen other Muslim blogger include dikhra in their blog even if their blog is not about Islam centrally.
Bruno DeGourville, on September 24, 2009 at 1:06 am said:

Anonymous:
It is my understanding, and one would have to ask learned scholars about it, that the subject you’re bringing up is a matter of spirituality and not pure ‘Aqeeda.

Bearing that in mind, allow me to suggest, that even at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings upon him) and the Tabe’een (may Allah be pleased with them all) people were at spiritually different levels. So to condemn a Muslim sister because in your opinion she does not conform to aspects of the faith that are in the realm of “less than obligatory”, is not only harsh, it was not the methodology of our beloved Prophet Muhammad (may Alla’s peace and blessings be upon him). And Allah knows best.

Daisy:
I am surprised at your mention of Nabia Abott. Why would you mention her as a reference about Islam or Saudi Arabia, when as you say yourself: she went to study in the US. ?! This is beyond my comprehension.

Not that America today is not in many ways the crucible of knowledge. But if I want to learn something about constitutional law in the US, I ask someone who seats at the US Supreme Court, or someone who has a valid diploma that sanctions his training in the field and that is also recognized by the proper authorities in Constitutional Law. I’m not going to ask a Chinese man who studied American Constitutional Law at Beijing University. As prestigious as this institution might be. Nor would I ask a divorce lawyer, or a corporate lawyer or an accident and personal injury lawyer. As much as they might have studied it in the course of their curriculum. If I have a question about US Constitutional Law, I don’t seek anyone else’s advice but a US Constitutional Lawyer’s.

So why would you want to take as a reference in Islamic theology or history someone who was described by her contemporaries as an Orientalist at best? Does she really have the authority to speak about Islamic History, Sociology, Theology? And if so, from where or what does she derive this authority? She sure has the right to her opinions. But, I, as an individual who seeks knowledge, wouldn’t rely on hers as my source of knowledge in the field of Islam.

Also, in the link you provide, the author says:
despite the media’s recent false claims that it has always been forbidden for Muslims to draw Mohammed.

It is not a false claim. At least not in Sunni Islam. Depiction, drawing of human, animals, living things has always been forbidden or frowned upon at worst. But the enforcement of this ruling has been through time subject to rulers or people’s whims.
This is because like many laws in any country, be they religious or secular laws, their enforcement vary throughout time and space. The author himself confirms this by saying: Other artists of the era drew Mohammed, but left his face blank so as to technically comply with a sporadically enforced Islamic ban on depicting the Prophet.

But on a strictly theological stand point, it is my understanding that drawing animate beings without necessity is forbidden. More on this by recognized Islamic Scholars here: Ruling on Drawing Animate Beings

Respectfully,
bdg
American Bedu, on September 24, 2009 at 2:18 am said:

Anonymous,

Salam Alaikum!

There are indeed a number of blogs as you have suggested. However my blog is about Saudi Arabia to include Islam but not with the primary emphasis and objective of this blog to be Islam. Thank you for your point of view.

Regards, Bedu
Daisy, on September 24, 2009 at 3:54 am said:

Bruno,
First, I’ve apologised elsewhere for hurting your feelings and I apologise again, since you perhaps haven’t read that post. It was not my intention to hurt you and I hope you’ll find it possible to forgive.

About drawing the Prophet or living beings – please read my comment to Carol above again – I began by saying that there is a definite injunction against it in Islam, but the Islamic cultures didn’t seem to have taken it seriously till very recently. I never said it was a false claim – if the webpage says it, I can’t be held accountable for it. I forwarded this page to Carol only to show her that the Prophet has been drawn in history despite this injunction – and I’ve mentioned it above.

About Nabia Abbott – she was a learned Orientalist and in fact wrote extensively on Islamic topics. My intention was not to refer her to Carol as a “guide” for learning about Islam, but as I have explained above, to show how much more liberal and accepting Saudi Arabia was till recent past when a Saudi woman could write about Islam from a crtical eye and could continue to stay in the KSA – something that seems to be no longer possible, since Carol was so anxious about her blog being labelled as a “dissenter” which it is not. Since I am born and live in a secular, multi-ethnic, multi-religious democracy, I do uphold democratic values very much and giving space to someone’s opinion even if one doesn’t agree with it is a part of democratic norms. Itseems KSA followed them till recent times.
I have read the book mentioned above and I found Nabia has given references from authentic Islamic sources, she looks at the topic from a new perspective and is quite persuasive in her arguments. In only good faith I suggest this – please read something written by her, especially this book and then you can debate with me about her scholarly potential. Orientalists too study the history, sociology, religion, language and other aspects of a culture so I don’t see why she shouldn’t write books related to these disciplines and why people shouldn’t read them. Of course reading any book doesn’t mean that you blindly follow what you read, but even to critique, you must read first to know what is written there, so that you can develop a critique.

About the validity of her American degree in a non-American subject, I truly wish the world was so equal and fair as you envisage it! You have touched a raw nerve in me there. The truth is that European and American scholars are working on many Asian cultures – and it is their research that is regarded as most valid – no matter how much an Asian scholar researches on his/her own culture. But as in the case of Nabia Abbott, she published in 1940s, and I am not sure that the KSA had any good universities at that time. Hence, if an American university has good experts in a particular subject and if an Asian student combines that expertise with her own indigenous knowledge to produce learned research, what’s wrong with it? What matters is whether she used valid historical methods to research on a historical topic and not where she did this research.

Bruno, when I say all this, I don’t mean to denounce you or any religion – I respect all religions of the world – but at the same time I believe in looking at all religions from a rational perspective. It is the rational perspective that keeps any tradition alive. I hope you’ll take my words in a positive spirit and you are most welcome to further debate with me as much as you like. I do appreciate your arguments very much.
Bruno DeGourville, on September 24, 2009 at 10:16 am said:

Daisy:
Thank you very much for your nice kind hearted response. And rest assured that i take all your comments for what they are: kind hearted and honest thoughts, from a curious person genuinely interested in learning and exchanging ideas, experiences and reflections with others with a similar mind set.
It was a pleasure to read your last comment. So many interesting good points that challenge me in my thinking.
But i will delay my response because i need to finish up first what i started writing last night about the polygamy and this Saudi woman’s experience.

Peace.
Daisy, on September 26, 2009 at 9:58 am said:

Bruno,
Thanks for taking my remarks with a positive view. I’ll await your response. Have read your comment on polygamy but am travelling now and don’t have much access to Internet. Since you’ve referred to some remarks I made there, I’ll respond when I get back.
jim, on September 30, 2009 at 2:00 pm said:

Hi,
Do you know any Travel agents who specializing for Saudi Visa in DC Area?
Thanks
American Bedu, on September 30, 2009 at 8:01 pm said:

@Jim,

I’m sorry but off-hand I do not. Maybe your employer has an agency they can recommend?
Phyllis, on October 2, 2009 at 8:38 pm said:

Hi,
I have been searching for any information about Rabigh. My husband is considering a position there and I haven’t found much on the internet. We are from the Kansas City area. I did find that Aramco built a compound but I know nothing about it. Some web pages showed pictures but most of the men went without their wives – that is not what we want. I get the feeling I might be very lonely. Have you heard of any expats living there? I would really appreciate any information.
You have a fantastic blog and I have enjoyed exploring it.
Thank you,
Phyllis
American Bedu, on October 3, 2009 at 3:23 am said:

Welcome Phyllis,

Thank you for your query.

First of all, do you know whether your husband’s job offer is a single or family contract? And if a family contract, does the employer state whether housing will be provided by the employer?

I’m sorry that I don’t know much about Rabigh. I asked my husband too and all he remembered was being there once when he was a young child and that it had some of the best fishing! I realize that does not help you in what you need to know.

I learned that Rabigh is 90 miles from Jeddah. The reason I state that is depending on what the employer has in regards to housing if it is not to your liking or not many expats, you -may- wish to consider living on an expat compound in Jeddah of which there are many that are lovely and safe.

One of the articles I found that you may have seen pertaining to Rabigh was this one:

http://www.chemicals-technology.com/projects/rabigh/

All the best, Bedu
Phyllis, on October 3, 2009 at 11:53 pm said:

It will be a family contract – housing and everything will be covered. We don’t know the exact location of the proposed plant so I am not sure if it’s north of Rabigh or closer to KAEC. So, depending on the location I may not have the option of living in Jeddah. I hope so. I will keep you up to date on our status. We are waiting for his firm to gather more information. I would appreciate it if you could name some expats communities for me to look at while we are waiting.
Thank you for your email.
Phyllis
American Bedu, on October 4, 2009 at 12:32 am said:

@Phyllis: I hope that some regulars here who comment from Jeddah will respond to you in regards to communities and compounds. I do not live in Jeddah so I can’t speak with direct experience.

If it is a family contract then that is very encouraging news. If the company is large enough, there should be info available on demographics such as number of expat families there and where they are from and detailed data on what type of compound…such as whether it has a school, shopping center, other amenities.
Brad, on October 5, 2009 at 7:00 am said:

Salaam Bedu,
I just found your website and have to say it’s very nice with alot of good information and really enjoy it. My question is one that I’m sure you’ve gotten ask before, but I thought I’d ask again. I apologize in advance if it offends you, but I thought why not try since you’re obviously very familiar with the region. My life is slightly similar to yours only a bit of the opposite. I’m American and I reverted to Islam while in college, and was eventually lucky enough to have been able to travel through the middle east, and on a subsequent trip, wound up marrying a wonderful muslim sister that I had met in Dubai. This was many many years ago. We live in Pennsylvania, and as we are a bit older now I would love to be able to find work in the gulf so that my wife can be closer to the fam as her parents are getting on a bit. She goes home atleast once a year, but I wish we were closer. I’m an accountant for a multinational and my wife is an RN. I have tried through work to relocate to the UAE without any luck in the past on two separate occasions, and all of the work I applied for was more or less already sewed up by British expats. Do you have any advice, tips, or contacts on how to find employment in the Kingdom or in any of the gulf states. Thank you
American Bedu, on October 5, 2009 at 7:22 am said:

Dear Brad,

Thank you and welcome to American Bedu!

I hope that you will find this earlier post that I wrote helpful to you:

http://americanbedu.com/2009/08/17/how-to-get-a-job-in-saudi-arabia/

Please do not hesitate to ask additional questions.

All the best, Bedu
coolred38, on October 5, 2009 at 8:03 am said:

Brad you might try Bahrain…they are in serious need of nurses…and with banking the major attraction there as well…you should be able to find an accounting job…and its only a half hour flight away from Dubai.
Umm Ibrahim, on October 5, 2009 at 10:44 pm said:

salaamu alaikum and hi all. I just wanted to say how much I enjoy your blog and esp this dear Bedu comment thread.
My husband, I and our son just relocated to the EP from the USA for jobs and we are Muslim and of mixed Persian/American background and wow, your blog has been such a help. mashallah!

So I have a question.
1) Are Saudi’s rude or is it “just me”?
It seems like because we can’t speak Arabic (yet) the ones who work in stores or at registers just get such an attitude and the women seem even more difficult, anytime Ive asked a Sa.udi woman a question or asked for directions their FIRST question is to ask whether I’m American and married to “one of their men”. Once I say, uh…No they get quite helpful.
wow! Also whats up with people walking in front of you and not letting you pass…even if your pushing a stroller. I feel like I have to nip heels to get people to move and let us through. LOL.

2) Is it OK to ignore a Saudi when they ask what your ethnicity or background is? Again, because we can’t speak Arabic I’ve been in lines to checkout and had the Saudi guy checking out our stuff ask where we or I (if i’m there w/ my son only) am from. I feel very uncomfortable about this. It’s none of their business.

Any suggestions? advice? Otherwise we do like being here, it’s just you…know…typical adjustment stuff.
American Bedu, on October 6, 2009 at 7:21 am said:

@Umm Ibrahim,

W’alaikum Salam! Welcome to the blog and thank you for commenting. And…welcome to the Kingdom too!

1. No, I can assure you that not all Saudis are rude. Saudis value and take great pride in showing hospitality to guests. Not to be meant in a negative way at all but are you sure that the individuals you have encountered as clerks or cashiers were actually Saudi? And as much as customer satisfaction is -supposed- to be the rule followed, when so many cultures, walks of life and experiences and nationalities come together in a public venue such as store or market, the rules of etiquette and protocol are often abandoned. I’m not saying that is appropriate, just that is what happens often.

I found it fascinating that you’ve been asked first by Saudi women whether or not you married one of their men to determine how helpful they may choose to be!

2. In regards to the “friendly male check out clerk” whether a Saudi or other nationality, I make myself unresponsive by ignoring the question and looking pointedly at the merchandise with wallet ready. This was not my initial reaction nor my natural reaction but a learned reaction. I found that once a woman answers one question the man may take it as a carte blanch to ask more questions with each question getting more personal, particularly in an environment where unrelated men do not have opportunities to readily converse with unknown women.

One time I was shopping by myself in an abaya store. Naturally I was wearing an abaya at that time although my head was uncovered. The male clerk hovered and kept wanting to show me choices. I politely and firmly told him I did not require assistance. I did not make any “chit chat” with him. I made my selection, paid quietly for my purchase and left the store. Once home I was putting away my new abaya and was getting ready to throw away the receipt when I discovered the sales clerk had written (in English) his first name, phone number and the words “Call me.” Female Saudi family members told me this was a common occurence to women and that it even happens to Saudi women who are completely covered and veiled.

My advice is to have patience and i agree that this is part of the adjustment period.

If you have not done so, I’d encourage you to use the search bar or category bar of my blog to read earlier posts I have written on adjustment and settling in as well as typical actions and reactions and how to deal with them!

All the Best, Bedu
Rasputin, on October 18, 2009 at 12:29 pm said:

Dear Bedu,
I have become habituated to reading your blog on a daily basis. It is extremely addictive.The comments on each of your blog subjects used to be interesting, informative and I did see a fair amount of good debating. But offlate I see too many personal attacks, religious biases by some regular comment hogs (if i may put it that way) all in the name of debate. My suggestion would be to reign in these culprits ( by moderating their comments regularly) . I dread going into the comments section because of these long winded comments which don’t seem to serve any purpose other than hog the page.
Cheers and have a good day
Aafke, on October 18, 2009 at 8:07 pm said:

Rasputin, do keep commenting, it seems all adults are leaving…
American Bedu, on October 18, 2009 at 8:32 pm said:

@Rasputin, Aafke,

Stay tuned. You will see changes. And thank you both for the input.

Bedu
Tony, on October 19, 2009 at 3:39 am said:

Dear Bedu.

You’ve previously heard from us on “About”. My daughter, Hannah, is six years old and very excietd about our upcoming move to Saudi Arabia from Canberra, Australia. She has some questions, and thought that perhaps you and the followers of/ contributers to, your blog may be able to debate the answers and offer her some culturally sensitive and age appropriate advice.

So here goes.

From Hannah.

Dear Bedu.

“I’m a six year old girl, mummy says’ she will have to change all her clothes when she goes out – so what will I have to do, can I still wear my pretty dresses?”

“I’m leaving my pet cat Fergus behind with my poppy, will I be able to have a new pet?”

“My front teeth are about to fall out – will the tooth fairy be able to find me?” (It’s OK – we’ve answered this one for her!!)

“Mummy likes horse riding, and I’d love to learn how to ride with her – will we be able to horse ride together in Saudi Arabia?”

“What do other little girls do in Saudi Arabia, I like my swings, little atheletics, swimming, school and going to birthday parties?”

“What will I wear to school?”

Thanks Bedu.

From Hannah. ( With help from her dad.)
American Bedu, on October 19, 2009 at 6:28 am said:

Dear Hannah,

American Bedu wishes to personally welcome you to this blog and is very happy to answer your questions about Saudi Arabia. You are going to have an exciting adventure with your family once you get on that big airplane!

To begin with you will get to see large deserts full of sand, camels in the desert like one would see a herd of sheep in Australia, beautiful arabian horses that can run fast like the wind and much more!

Now to answer your very important questions:

When Mommy goes out she will need to wear a black robe over her pretty dresses because that is the rule in Saudi Arabia. But for little girls who are six years old, they can still wear their pretty dresses when they go out.

I know that you will miss Fergus and I’m sure Poppy will take good care of your kitty. In Saudi Arabia there are many many kitties who need loving homes and little girls to play with them and love them. Your mommy and Daddy can write to me and I can give them the information to organizations in Saudi Arabia where you can adopt a kitty that has had its shots and all ready for a new family to come and give it love.

Wow…that will be kind of neat if your front teeth fall out after you are in Saudi Arabia. That will also show you that the Tooth Fairy is very smart and no matter where you go, she’ll be able to find you and your teeth!

You and your mommy will be happy to know there are places you can ride horses in Saudi Arabia. In fact, there are even more places just for little girls. Be sure to tell Daddy to take you and Mommy on a ride towards the desert in Thumamah and there are all these special places that little girls and little guys like to go to which have horse and pony rides and lots of other entertainment!

In Saudi Arabia little girls can do a lot of the same things like home. There is a very good zoo in Riyadh which young children and big folks can go for a day. You can see many animals and even have a picnic! There is also a place called Desert Safari where you and your family can go for a day and ride camels and have bbq’s. The King Abdullah wildlife park is another special place to see many animals. Your family can rent a desert tent called an estraha for a day where you can play games and explore. And as you go to school you will make friends from so many different places. At school you will also learn about other activities just for girls your age that you will find fun like ballet classes, painting lessons. I’m sure you will live on what is called a compound where you will have even more friends, swimming pool and little athletics!

And if you go to the International School you will wear exactly what you wear to school in Australia!

I think you will like Saudi Arabia a lot Hannah!
Tony, on October 20, 2009 at 2:29 am said:

Dear Bedu.

I read Hannah your reply last night after dinner – she thinks, we all think, we will like Saudi Arabia a lot.

Thankyou for taking the time to make our little girl feel a little happier and a little less daunted about some big and exciting changes she is about to experience.

Conversley, our 3 year old boy has no questions and just wants to get over there and start riding camels!!! He struggles with the pronunciation – his little mates all think he is heading off to Sowbi Abdabia!!

You’ll hear from us occassionally and we’ll be viewing your blog daily.

Kind regards,

Tony.
American Bedu, on October 20, 2009 at 2:49 am said:

Hi Tony,

I am glad that Hannah is getting more excited about moving to Saudi Arabia. Do you know yet which compound you will be living on?

I have a few friends with children of similar ages. If you wish you can email me directly for a virtual introduction. admin@americanbedu.com

Best Regards, Bedu
melissa, on October 22, 2009 at 7:02 am said:

Salam! I am in a predicament. I am an american woman who has lived with a saudi here on a student visa. we’ve lived together for 4 years and plan on marrying once his schooling is finished. However, I just found out I am pregnant. He had to move out since he told a few of the guys and now we are pretending to not even know each other for fear of his scholarship being canceled. We love each other but I feel very alone. I have to go through 2 years of hiding our love, our child, and our plans on campus. I know that one of the other saudi students will say something to the embassy, but do you really think he’d have to go home and stay there?

Truly,
Melissa
Lynn, on October 22, 2009 at 4:00 pm said:

Melissa, No, he wouldn’t have to go home and stay there. He could stay right there with you, marry you and forget about a damned ‘scholarship’. He made his bed and now he has to man up and do what is right which is take care of you and his child.

But then again…do you really want to be married to someone who put money before you and the child that you have together?
coolred38, on October 22, 2009 at 8:13 pm said:

Melissa…looks like his decision to distance himself from you speaks volumes. You DONT have to go through 2 years of hiding…you have chosen to…and for what…so nothing in HIS life changes and upsets his life and routine? Nice that your making all the sacrifices from now…get use to it girl. Its always the women that give up something for their “man”.
Saudi in US, on October 22, 2009 at 9:11 pm said:

Melissa,

Sorry to say, but these are not the actions of a man that cares for you or is going to be there in the future. I have seen this before and he will likely abandon you. This is what he is doing already by leaving at the time that you need him the most and pretending he does not know you.

You have to go under the assumption that you are alone in this and likely forever.

This is not intended to be an unsympathetic comment. I really feel you have been victimized and need to think clearly knowing the situation you are in.
American Bedu, on October 22, 2009 at 10:01 pm said:

@melissa – please email me directly admin@americanbedu.com
Lynn, on October 22, 2009 at 10:35 pm said:

Hey Coolred. I disagree that it is always the woman that gives up something for their ‘man’. It doesn’t have to be that way if the woman doesn’t choose that. Remember, in this country at least, we ALWAYS have a choice.
American Bedu, on October 22, 2009 at 10:42 pm said:

This post remains a must read regarding regulations and prohibitions surrounding Saudi students:

http://americanbedu.com/2008/05/28/what-you-need-to-know-about-saudi-students-outside-the-kingdom/
radha, on October 22, 2009 at 11:09 pm said:

I’ve had a bad day so allow me to rant and be unspethetic please. just this once..
Melissa, There’s an order that things have to be done, yes i’m old fashioned and no i don’t disapprove , it’s after all your life and your choice. but i’m putting my daughter in your place and hence the choice words…
1. he’s a student.. living off his govt largesse. which means he owes somehting to his govt. which means he’s not free to commit. this point is not rocket science.
2. he can break the scholarship, however he’ll be penniless,visaless and back in saudi.
3. He can do that , get married to you and once insaudi take your kid and dump you… happens..
4. He’s already made it clear where you stand in his life..

ok now for the solutions…
1. TALK , ask him what his intentions are. will he drop the scholarship and support you ( which may not be possible since he’ll get sent back)
2. You need support when youa re pregnant , you cannot hide a BABY.and you shouldn’t. see a support system.
3. he obviously is not there in your time of need, how much does that speak for love. tell your family.

talk with someone wiser and a bit away from the situation, would you take this crap from someone in your own culture, why do you guys make accomodations because he’s from a diff place? he’s not fragile china?
This is not the first time i’ve heard this tale and likely will not be the last. yet after hearing horror stories, girls repeat the same mistake and ruin their lives. You can’t be ashamed of someone and claim to love them.
Save the Women, on October 23, 2009 at 12:56 am said:

Melissa, I am very worried about your story.
I have serious doubts about a saudi boy willing to live with you and not wait and marry you when he can. Also the government doesn’t want Saudies to marry foreigners. It is very very difficult to get approval, I know people who are waiting since 5 years and are still nowhere. At the very least it will cost a huge amount in bribes.
It looks as if he has been using you. And now there’s a spot of trouble he is running away as fast as he can.

And if he would be honest with you you might not be able to get married for many years.

But I don’t think he is honest. The fact that he has left you and is now acting as if he doesn’t know you is very bad.
He does not act like an honourable man to you.

If you were ever to get married he might just take your child and leave you to fend for yourself. Never, ever, go to Saudi Arabia with such a man. In the company of his family most Saudi men loose all backbone and as a wife you will be at the bottom of his priorities.
As a woman you have no rights in Saudi. As a woman you are only property. you and your children will be at the complete mercy of your husband and his family. If you manage a divorce you will loose your children and never see them again, You can’t even travel without written authorisation from your guardian.

There is also the very real chance he is allready married at home and you would be the second wife. the foreign interloper.

But forgetting speculations. At this time, while you need him, he is abandoning you. He is leaving you alone. You are not solely responsible for this baby, he has done something to make a baby. But he is leaving you to deal with it on your own.

Are these the actions of an honourable man?
They are not.
This is not the man you want to trust your life and future to. This is not the man you want to raise your children. especially not if they are daughters.

A real man would stand for you and your baby. A real man would find a solution other than dumping you. A real man would stand by you in times of trouble.

I am sorry but most Saudi men are not good men.
And make no mistake: They will all consider you the stupid western kaffir slut who had sex without being married and is having the baby.

You should talk to him and ask him to take his responsibillity to you and the baby. Give him one chance to do the right thing.

If he doesn’t do that, you should take him to court. Make him assume his responsibility as a father. If he cannot afford it or the Saudi goverment comes after him and sends him back you should go after the government,
For creating an environment where their students cannot do the right thing and take care of their children.
brad, on October 23, 2009 at 4:19 am said:

Melissa,
First let me say it’s not fair to throw all the blame on him. It took both of you to conceive a child outside of marriage, and the real victim here is not you, it’s the child. Talk to him. If he cares about you he will be completely honest to his family with you listening on the phone or via webcam with you and your family present, then he will go to your parents and ask to marry you, and will marry you immediately. His scholarship is the least of your worries. Then you both you need to find and hire a really good immigration attorney that can come up with a plan for you both to stay together legally. You would be surprised what can be done with a good immigration attorney and a couple letters to a senator. I don’t want to say this, but there’s a high probability that if you go to the kingdom now for the reasons stated previously you are going to have a bad experience for you and your child. I don’t recommend it. There are definitely exceptions that I personally know of, but I got to be honest, there’s also alot of bad stories that I know of, sorry. Please please listen when I say, if he does any less than what I’ve stated above he is not serious and you need to think about yourself and the baby. You’re in my duas.
Sari Yusuf, on October 23, 2009 at 9:57 am said:

Dear Bedu,

I am a big fan of your blog as well as Susie’s Big Adventure. To my surprise ( and it is really irritating!) suddenly I cannot browse Susie’s blog today. I had no idea why ….

Is there any censorship or blog banning taking place there in KSA?

Confused,
Sari
coolred38, on October 23, 2009 at 10:27 am said:

Lynn…I was referring to western women that get involved with Arab men…its generally the woman that sacrifices something to be with her arab man…rarely does he sacrifice anything….all though even if his family doesnt agree to the marriage…the wife is the one that suffers mostly…not him.
American Bedu, on October 23, 2009 at 4:33 pm said:

@Coolred,

You’re quite right in that the majority of times it is the woman who sacrifices and makes many changes. Although I am aware of some Saudi men who in turn chose to change their lives as they felt it was easier and better for their relationship. Some of these men chose themselves to live outside of KSA to include living either in Bahrain as a compromise where his wife and family could have a western style that she was accustomed too while still in easy proximity to KSA and then there are other Saudi men who have made their primary home in America. I also know a number of American-Saudi couples where they have agreed that the wife lives full time in America with her children and the husband, who continues work in Saudi, visits her multiple times each year. I guess it is always up to the individuals and what works best for them. Myself, I enjoy life in Saudi Arabia and found while being in the States, realized how many close friends I do have there and how it has become home.
American Bedu, on October 23, 2009 at 4:35 pm said:

@Sari,

Welcome! I can assure you that I had no problems accessing and viewing her blog just now.

Regards, Bedu
melissa, on October 26, 2009 at 9:00 pm said:

first, thank you everyone for your comment on my situation. brad, I would specifically like to point out that I am in no way making myself the victim nor do I think that sentiment was evident in my post. most likely you conjured the idea from other posts.

The truth is folks is that I have no control of what this man chooses to fear most. He is shaking in his boots at the idea of being penniless, deported, and alone. Meanwhile I am shaking in mine at being a single mother….again. This man has a great heart and I know he is willing to stick by me but only under his terms (do not discuss, pretend we don’t know each other in front of other saudis). I know the embassy has its regulations, I’ve read the page on this website as well. However, that is not to say that situations like these will not occur – I mean, you’re dealing with humanity.

I would like to write my story to prevent other women/girls from making the same mistake. I have a really great saudi guy and if this can happen to me, then you better be really scared about what can happen with someone else – especially the religious types who are truly only “sowing oats.”

Keep up the good work on this site! Thank you all for your comments – please pray for me and my baby – I am doing it on my own and the little one and I will be in church where we belong.

Melissa
melissa, on October 26, 2009 at 9:04 pm said:

p.s. Also, marriage becomes a problem for the saudi/american couple only if they are intent on the marriage being recognized by the saudi government. Luckily, the American marriage license is easy to obtain. As for me, I do not recognize the saudi government as a moral and ethical establishment, why would I want them to recognize my marriage? I don’t.
Claire, on October 28, 2009 at 8:58 pm said:

Hi American Bedu,

I been searching the net for all possible information about Saudi. Then I came across with your most helpful blog. My husband is going to Riyadh for a job soon and we’ll follow him couple months after. This was such a good job offer that is just hard to resist. We are told that we will be given a villa at Jadawel. I have seen some pictures but not enough to satisfy my curiousity. I have heard that Jadawel is a very good place to stay although the bombing/attack couple years ago kindda scares me.

I am a stay at home Mom with 2 nuclear powered babies. At night when they’re asleep I like doing crafts like handmade cards, scrapbooking and altered projects. I’m a big time collector and crafter for rubberstamping and scrapbooking. We are planning to ship most of my craft supplies. My husband is probably looking into a 4-year work in Riyadh and I don’t wanna ended up being at home doing nothing. So my question is: what kind of rubberstamp images can I bring in without having it confiscated when check by the customs? My collection varies from flowers, trees, animals, bugs, dinosaurs, Christmas, Halloween, cartoons, girls, boys, women, men, princesses, fairies, asian inspired and other geometrical elements and shapes. I am very worried that the custom people will ended up confiscating my stuff. I have spent some good hard earned bucks for my collection and it would certainly break my heart if I lost them.

I also heard that greeting cards is hard to get by in the Kingdom and I was thinking that maybe as a stay at home Mom, I could generate some income and have fun at the same time.

I would really appreciate your help and any information you can provide us.

Thank you very much and be assured that I will ended being one of your avid follower. It really helps to read, it takes away the uncertainties and worries about having to move to a conservative place like Saudi.

Thank you so much.

Claire & Ed

PS: Are there any craft store in the Kingdom where I could buy some craft supplies like rubberstamps, stamp pads, archival glue/tapes, colored pencils, ribbons and such? Any info you can provide will be highly appreciated. Again, thank you so much…
American Bedu, on October 28, 2009 at 9:10 pm said:

Dear Claire and Ed,

First of all, Mabrook! (Congratulations) I have no doubt you and your family will have an exciting and interesting time in the Kingdom.

Jadawal is a lovely compound and active with families.

If you would email me directly at admin@americanbedu.com I can broker an introduction for you which should be very helpful towards a jump start on crafting supplies. One of my friends (An American married to a Saudi) owns a very successful business which has such supplies. And since she is always importing items into the Kingdom she can be an excellent judge on whether too many Christmas or Halloween stamps would be a problem. My instinct is to say no, they shouldn’t be since you have such a variety but it never hurts to get a second opinion.

Best Regards, Bedu (Carol)
Claire, on October 28, 2009 at 10:24 pm said:

Thanks for the quick reply. An email was already sent to you…
Ayesha, on November 1, 2009 at 3:50 am said:

Hi American Bedu,My husband is very interested in working in Saudi Arabia (Jeddah).He has Bachelor’s Degree and is in the process of getting his Telf online what are the chances that he would find a job and how long.Also is it true that while he might find a job it will take some time for me and the kids to accompany him?
American Bedu, on November 1, 2009 at 7:59 am said:

Dear Ayesha,

If your husband has the qualifications — degree as well as acquiring TELF certificate he shouldn’t have many problems acquiring a teaching job in Saudi. There are always vacancies for teachers. Have him check out teachsaudi.com which is a small banner on the left side of my blog that he can click and learn about and apply for opportunities.

Saudi regulations are such that on a family contract, an expat worker must first fulfill the three month probationary period before dependent family members can come to the Kingdom.

Best Regards, Bedu
ummtiflain, on November 1, 2009 at 10:13 pm said:

Dear Bedu, after seven years of marriage it seems my Saudi husband and I (American) still struggle to communicate effectively. Could you possibly write about this topic as I am in need of advice here. Thanks.
American Bedu, on November 2, 2009 at 7:35 am said:

Dear Umm Tiflain,

I will be happy to share some views and thoughts and hope these will help you. They will appear on the blog 2nd week of November.

Best Regards, Bedu
mariam, on November 13, 2009 at 2:28 am said:

Dear Carol, I was just updating myself on news releases & the the al quaeda message regarding the new uni has me majorly down. HOW depressing. They really know their audience well – addressing it to fathers, brothers and husbands.

Sorry I just had to vent. May Allah continue his blessings on King Abdullah.

Mariam
American Bedu, on November 13, 2009 at 4:06 am said:

Dear Mariam,

Yes, unfortunately Al Qaeda has figured out only too well the power of media whether through visual or the written word.

I also have all the faith in King Abdullah and that he sees the full picture very clearly and is prepared. In fact stay tuned for an upcoming post which is a little of an analysis/think piece on King Abdullah and activities.

Bedu
Peace Seeker, on November 15, 2009 at 3:39 pm said:

Dear American Bedu – or better yet, dear Mother Teresa of Arabia,

Carol, this site is a jaw dropper! Please allow me to raise my imaginary hat for I am so very honored to have come across (virtually) someone who’s as knowledgeable and experienced as you are and yet maintains great deal of modesty and humbleness..masha’Allah!

So with all the pregnancy hormones fluctuating in the air, the morning sickness kicking in all day long, and the sleep deprivation (thanks to the endless number of bathroom trips throughout the night), I’m feeling a little (or a lot) like an emotional pinball – especially that my husband and I are relocating to Riyadh (from Dubai) by the end of December and it’s just a big transition for me considering the last time I lived there was more than ten years ago in high school, where my schedule was pretty much full between school, studying, and hanging out with friends…never lived there as a wifie (and soon-to-be-mother) and I’m kind of worried to be honest..

I came across your link as I was googling second hand shops in Riyadh and read the relevant blog. I am a big (literally) fan of second hand goods and used to work at a vintage shop back in the Austin. And now, with the relocation and the two monsters inside my tummy welcoming us in June 2010, there couldn’t have been a better time to start thinking second hand. BTW, thanks a lot for the information you and other bloggers provided, they are very helpful

Can I ask you you about anything and everything as question marks pop out of my head once I’m settled in Riyadh?

You have stories to tell Carol and are very sincere in giving advice on every single aspect – whether or not related to Saudi.

May God bless your beautiful soul

Peace Seeker
American Bedu, on November 16, 2009 at 5:57 am said:

Dear Peace Seeker,

My goodness…it takes a lot to really leave me at a loss for words and your message has been one of those things! I sincerely and humbly thank you for the very kind words.

Double congratulations on your pregnancy (do I understand correctly that twins are on the way!!) and on the upcoming move to Riyadh.

Of course you may ask any questions and if I cannot answer I am confident there will be others who can and will also offer advise and perspectives.

Wishing you and your family all the very best, Carol
radha, on November 18, 2009 at 7:24 pm said:

hello carol,

HAppy Bakri-eid , or eid -al adha whichever you go by any plans ?
It falls close to thanksgiving this year, and we celebrate thanksgiving ,especially this yr when R comes home. unfortunately for F this is a vegetarian home so no sacrificing/cooking meat, he just cuts a check
Anyway have a nice thanksgiving/Eid break
J, on November 18, 2009 at 8:12 pm said:

Dear American Bedu,
Thank you so much for putting out this website– I’ve been impressed reading over your comments and information.
You may have answered this before, so I apologize for any repeats, but I was wondering if you could recommend any abaya that I could buy online that would be appropriate to wear on an upcoming visit to Saudi Arabi for work. I would like advice on what would be considered both modest and professional, and am having trouble finding examples of what women are wearing these days. I was looking at this one:
http://www.alhediya.com/fadilaabaya.html (worn with a head covering of course, and with the black trim on black cloth)
and
http://alhannah.com/products/ab265.html
Would one be more appropriate than the other? Could I / should I bring both?
Also, would I be expected to wear a face covering as well as head covering and abaya?
Finally, as an American Muslim woman, will I be expected to follow any other rules than other foriegn visitors?
Thank you so much for your help.
-J
American Bedu, on November 18, 2009 at 8:22 pm said:

Thank you Radha!! We usually refer to as Eid Al Adha here. Well, it will be a different Eid this year for both me and my husband with not being in Saudi Arabia and also receiving medical treatment. However, being familiar with Indian vegetarian cuisine I would say F is in for a big treat even if there is not a turkey on the table! (smile) And I’ve no doubt you are counting the days, hours and minutes for R’s arrival!

Hugs, Bedu
American Bedu, on November 18, 2009 at 9:36 pm said:

Dear J,

Welcome to the blog and thank you for your comment and query. Much of the choice on what kind of an abaya to wear does depend on where you will be and with whom you will be meeting as well as your own level of comfort.

For example the abaya in the first link you provided is a modest yet lovely abaya. It is more typical of the styles seen among women both muslim and non-muslim. The abaya in the second link is a more conservative type of abaya which if you are traveling outside of main cities may be more appropriate.

If you care to share more details about where you will be and nature of your business, such as if you will be meeting with men and women, men only or women only, it is easier to provide more specific suggestions.

As a foreign guest to Saudi a head covering such as a scarf or hijjab is viewed as appropriate. Naturally though as an American muslim if you anticipate travel to smaller towns or the cities of Makkah and Medina I would suggest that the hijjab be secure and not show any hair.

Following link will provide you with earlier posts I have written about the abaya.

Best Regards, Bedu

http://americanbedu.com/2008/10/29/can-i-wear-a-long-coat-instead-of-a-black-abaya-in-saudi-arabia/
Umm Ibrahim, on November 23, 2009 at 6:43 am said:

salaamu alaikum J!

My husband and I are Muslim expats in the EP…I can tell ya, don’t bother investing in an Abayaah outside of the kingdom as u can buy really awesome, beautiful ones here when u arrive. Just come wearing a nice long tunic and a skirt and U should be OK until ur able to purchase an abayaah. If you wore hijab in the US just wear over what u’d normally wear. If u have a long duster or a jilbab, no matter how old school, it’ll work until u purchase some abayaat. Really, no women here wear abayaat like that, only the non-Muslim expats wear those designs. The trendy designs are something else all together. Try to find the ladies shopping area (suq) for the best abayaah’s.

if you wore hejab in the US then just continue wearing the same style here in KSA, if u wore shaylahs, keep wearing them, if u wore sqare…u can do so as well. U dont need to only wear all black either, although I find wearing all black does tend to make one blend in more.
Also you dont need to wear niqab. I wear Niqab here, but I prefer and like Niqab anyway but a lot of Muslim expats dont wear Niqab. really it’s up to you, but it might be advisable to purchase one…go into any abayaah or shaylah shop and ask…a good one shouldnt cost more than 10 riyals-with bargaining and then keep it. Some places have a lot of leery guys that congregate around (esp foreign workers) and niqab comes in handy.

and dont forget to bargain!!!! Here in the EP in the ladies suq u can get beautiful abayaah for between 200-300 riyals in the trendy designs, good crepe…you name it.

Where will u be coming?

Early eid mobarek!
melissa, on November 23, 2009 at 11:11 pm said:

Hello,
Could anyone advise me as to where can I get an abaya custom made for a reasonable price? I am here in Riyadh with my Saudi husband. I’m American. Or maybe a store here in Riyadh that has fun, bedazzled abayas that I can tailor? Any good tailors that can be recommended? I am tall (5’9″) and none seem to fit me well. I have a real cheap-o polyester abaya with snaps that keep unsnapping at all the wrong times!! lol. I would love one of those fancy-shmancy jeweled ones……and a velvet one for this winter…
Thanks so much,
American Bedu, on November 24, 2009 at 4:26 am said:

@melissa,

If she is still there there was a woman at Saudi Television channel 2 who did make up and on the side made the most incredible customized abayas. Her name is Farouz (like the singer).

However you will find that any well known abaya shop will also do customizing and fitting.

Although I have found more fancier ones to my own liking if you manage to make a short trip to the abaya shops in Dubai.

Good luck!
Umm Ibrahim, on November 25, 2009 at 12:32 pm said:

I donno about Riyadh but here in the ladies suq area of Al-Khobar really any abayaah is customizable. Most abayaahs are made really big and long and then are tailored down when you decide what u want and normally it only takes 20min to 1 hr (dept on the tailoring done). I’m not nearly as tall as u, but this is the general norm here I assume Riyadh is the same and frankly….I like that everything is tailored down, I get a guaranteed good fit. Even the abayaah shops in malls normally have a small side room with a tailor for hemming although those mall abayaah shops tend to have a wider variety of pre-made sizes and the tailoring is only done if youre really outside the “norm”. But Id try to go to the ladies suq area which is all abayaahs and jalabeeya shops and just have them tailor something for you.
Alyssa, on December 5, 2009 at 5:52 am said:

Dear Bedu,
We have a Saudi customer with whom we have done business for 9 years. We would like to send him a small gift or token of our appreciation. The gift could be from our President (a man). I would like to give a gift from a local artisan who makes handmade paper flowers (handmadepaperflowers.com) – would a modest (less than $50) handmade paper flower piece be appropriate? If not, please offer other gift suggestions.

Thanks very much!
Alyssa
American Bedu, on December 6, 2009 at 1:24 pm said:

Dear Alyssa,

I believe a gift of flowers from man to man is a bit unusual and especially so for a Saudi male.

You might want to consider a nice pen set? Or perhaps a pair of cufflinks?

This link may also provide additional suggestions for you:

http://www.thingsremembered.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Home_10001_9951

Best Regards, Carol
Erin, on December 10, 2009 at 10:37 pm said:

Dear Bedu,
Thank you so much for your hard work by putting this blog together. I have enjoyed reading it. The reason for my email today is this. My husband, an American citizen, (although an Iranian–he left Iran at 6months old) has recently been employed by Saudi Arabia to teach at a university for the next year. He landed in Riyadh this morning and was able to get to an internet cafe to speak with me via Skype. As were talking he was approached by a man who made him end the conversation with me. Let me say first that it was not because he was out of internet time–he still had an hour left. My question is if skype is allowed or no? Or if is, am I required to wear a veil so that others do not see my face? I am extremely worried that we did something wrong and endangered his safety unknowingly…Please respond if you can. I will be anxiously awaiting your response. Thanks, Erin
American Bedu, on December 11, 2009 at 5:22 am said:

Dear Erin,

Welcome and I am so happy you are finding my blog informative.

Skype is not illegal or blocked in Saudi Arabia. Same with Google chat, it is also doable. So my take on the situation is this… I think because the employee saw or heard your husband speaking with a foreign woman he may have feared your husband was using the internet cafe to hook up with a foreign woman. If your husband is able to get internet/skype access in his place of residence he will find it so much easier to use with you. In addition both Vonage and Magik Jack do work in Saudi which would allow “local” calls to/from at anytime which is another option to consider as well.

Good luck! Carol
Umm Ibrahim, on December 15, 2009 at 11:47 pm said:

Erin, We arent in Riyadh but we r in the EP and r Iranian-American too. We use Skype all the time to call Iran and USA and its not a problem. I think maybe the internet cafe dude just thought ur hub was chatting to an unmarried woman. He should have said “she is my wife” I think this is inti zawjati and that might have helped.
Do chill out, nothing that bad happened, im sure it was just a huge misunderstanding.
araf, on December 17, 2009 at 8:58 pm said:

PLZ COULD SOME ONE USE RIGHT ISLAMIC DATES ON THEIR WEB SITE AS THEY ALL USE GEORGION DATES.
i AM SO UPSET NO ISLAMIC COUNTRY REALLY MENTION DATES ON OFFICAL WEB SITE BUT MAY BE PEOPLE LIKE U CAN CHANE THIS AND START USINGIN IT SO THEY ALL CAN LEARN TOO.THANX
American Bedu, on December 17, 2009 at 11:52 pm said:

Araf,

that is a good suggestion and I have seen this on some sites. I’ll have to explore how easily it is to implement.

Thanks for the suggestion! Bedu
Sarah M, on December 21, 2009 at 11:28 am said:

Dear Bedu

First off I would love to thank you for your efforts with this site, I’ve lived most of my life in KSA and reading about it in English is great.

I’m an American married to an Egyptian whose currently working in Riyadh, I recently found out I’m pregnant and had a few questions related to that.

1. I want to follow with a good English speaking OB-GYN in Riyadh in one of the major hospitals. Any suggestions?

2. How are pregnant women treated here, what are the procedures here, the labor and delivery room, are husbands allowed, what about nurses, hospital stay, etc…

3. I’m unsure yet if I will give birth here or go back home to the States to give birth… If I stay here how do I go about getting an American birth certificate for my baby, what documents are required? …. If I give birth in the states, what documents are required to bring the baby back with me? (I have an iqama belonging to my husband)

Sorry for the list of questions but I really didn’t know where to start researching. Thanks in advance.
Jennifer Canar, on December 21, 2009 at 12:30 pm said:

Dear American Bedu,

Your blog is my saving grace. My husband and I have both accepted jobs in Riyadh, beginning August 2010. I have lived an expatriate lifestyle for 10 years now – Germany, Indonesia, and China. I am a woman in love with her independence and am amid a panic attack with our decision to leave our current lifestyle in Shanghai for Riyadh, where I fear most of my independence will be stripped. Frankly, your blog settles my mind and puts me closer at piece with our decision. For that, I thank you. No questions as of yet, as your blog is a wealth of knowledge.

J-
American Bedu, on December 21, 2009 at 5:15 pm said:

Dear Sarah,

First of all, warmest congratulations on your pregnancy!! I want to assure you that if you do decide to give birth in Saudi there is great care. The hospital I am most familiar with is National Guard Health Affairs. If you wish to be seen there, you would need to apply through its business center. I am trying to recall the full name of the OB/GYN but her first name is Dr. Hanan. She is fantastic. However your husband would not be allowed in the delivery room. Not too many Saudi hospitals allow that.

I also know that many expat women have gone to Kingdom Hospital. I do not know the doctors practicing there but I have been to Kingdom and it is probably the most modern and equipped hospital in Riyadh.

The Saudi British and Saudi German hospitals also have very good reputations. And of course there is also King Faisal Specialist Hospital but I am not sure how easy it is now for an expat to be accepted there.

Please feel free to ask any additional questions and there are a number of followers on the blog with experience in the medical sector too.

@Jennifer – thank you for your lovely comment and look forward to having you and your husband in Riyadh!
Abu Abdullah, on December 21, 2009 at 5:21 pm said:

Hello Sarah,
Congragulations on your baby.

My wife recently had a baby some 2 weeks back myself so i thought i could help.

1. I want to follow with a good English speaking OB-GYN in Riyadh in one of the major hospitals. Any suggestions?

Dr. Elizabeth working at “Al Jafel Hospital”, near Exit 28, Badiah, Riyadh is good. She has also practised in US before.

I have known many western expats consulting her as well.

The Hospital website is http://www.aljafel-hospital.com

2. How are pregnant women treated here, what are the procedures here, the labor and delivery room, are husbands allowed, what about nurses, hospital stay, etc…

Husbands are not allowed in this hospital or any other hospital i know of.

But i must tell you there are not many support groups for pregnant ladies available here as it would be in the US.

The doctor i mentioned does give you some good advice and counselling, but it would be better for you to read online and checking out some books. Will let you know the books on the next comment.

Usually you can opt for a same day discharge if all is well, but you can also request to extend your stay in the hospital.

And the neo-natologist in the hospital i said is also good. Most hospitals here have only a paediatrician practicing not a neo-natal speacialist.

Having your baby in US would be a good option, but you may have to travel before you enter the 7th month, though some airlines do allow until before 8th month.

3. I’m unsure yet if I will give birth here or go back home to the States to give birth… If I stay here how do I go about getting an American birth certificate for my baby, what documents are required? …. If I give birth in the states, what documents are required to bring the baby back with me? (I have an iqama belonging to my husband)

When your baby is born, the process is as follows:

a. You must produce your’s and your husbands passport and iqamas to the hospital and they would give a birth report.

b. Get your baby vaccinated and get a vaccination card from the hospital, usually happens in the first one week of the birth.

c. Take photo copies of passports, iqamas, marriage certificates and visit this government office called “Maktab al Ahwal ul madaniya” at Nasiriyah, Riyadh (near pakistani school).

d. They will issue you a temporary non-saudi birth certificate may be same day or next day.

e. You then take this temporary birth certificate and go to the American Embassy.

f. The Embassy would ask for you to prove that you have lived for atleast 5 years in US after the age of 14, for this you can provide your School Transcripts or W2 Tax docs. From their own it is pretty straight forward and easy with them.

You may want to check with the embassy in riyadh as well. Because I am a Indian and my wife an American, may be our procedures were different.

Hope the information was usefull.

Regards…
Daisy, on December 21, 2009 at 6:59 pm said:

Congratulations Abu Abdullah, for the new family member!
Abu Abdullah, on December 21, 2009 at 8:23 pm said:

Thank you Daisy…
Abu Abdullah, on December 21, 2009 at 8:41 pm said:

Thank you Daisy…

@Sarah:

You may want to check these books for yourself, they were great help to us.

a. Your Pregnancy Week By Week – Hamlyn Health

Your Pregnancy Week-by-week (Hamlyn Health)

b. Your Baby’s First Year Week By Week (may be available in Jareer Book Store)
http://www.amazon.com/Your-Babys-First-Year-Pregnancy/dp/1555612326
Abu Abdullah, on December 21, 2009 at 9:01 pm said:

Thanks Daisy

@Sarah:

You may want to check out these books for yourself and your baby. They were most helpful to us.

a. Your Pregnancy Week by Week — Hamlyn Health

Your Pregnancy Week-By-Week (Practical Parenting)

b. You Baby’s First Year week by week – by Glade Curtis (May be available in Jareer Book Store)

Your Pregnancy Week-By-Week (Practical Parenting)

BTW I forgot to mention, though your husband may not be allowed into the Delivery Room/ Operation Theater but after the birth and if everything is okay your husband can visit you both in the Obstetrics Ward or the Private room where you will be transferred.

All the best…
Sarah M, on December 22, 2009 at 9:48 am said:

@ Abu Abdullah & @ Bedu

Thank you so much for your input and congrats Abu Abdullah on the new baby. I still have a few months to think about it, you see this is not my first baby, my son was born in the US and I loved the experience there at the hospital and the nurse staff and everything really was covered so I’m really apprehensive about giving birth here, and also I heard that the Saudi Embassy in Washington DC gives people a very hard time to complete any paperwork so bringing baby back with me will take longer than expected… I’ll research some more and think it out, I still have some time.

Thank you again, any other suggestions anyone has please reply as well.
Jennifer Canar, on December 27, 2009 at 7:53 am said:

Hi Carol,

After further thought, I do have some questions/inquiries/thoughts. If you recall, I wrote a previous entry about my husband and I moving to Riyadh in August 2010.

OK, here goes:

1) I understand that when I leave my compound I wear an abaya. When I am at a restaurant, seated in the family section, is it required for me to wear the abaya or may I take it off?
2) Do most restaurants have a family section? How is it different from the singles section (which I assume is men only)?
3) One of my favorite past times is sitting in a coffee shop, sipping a latte, reading and people watching. Can I do this, independent of my husband, while living in Riyadh? I’m envisioning myself within a screened section, hidden behind four walls, feeling a bit claustrophobic (which I hope is an exaggeration).
4) After reading your blog, I have come to the conclusion that I can shop alone, without a male escort. Is this an accurate conclusion? I did read about how I must find a trusting taxi/driver/chauffeur service, which I hope will be provided by either those living on the compound or by the international school I will be employed.
5) I have looked at the website for Yibreen’s and am considering a gym membership there – are there other gym’s (available to women)? Also, do you know if it’s possible to join a gym and spa at a hotel? I’ve tried researching for this online, but can’t find any concrete details.

That should do it for now.

Thank you,
Jennifer
American Bedu, on December 27, 2009 at 8:27 am said:

Dear Jennifer,

It is a pleasure to hear from you and I will attempt to address your questions.

1. Abaya: Once you have arrived and sitting in either the ladies or family section you have choices. In ladies only sections it is natural for women to remove their abayas. In the family section it can depend on how many families. If the restaurant gives you a private little room as some are set up, you do not have towear your abaya.

2. yes, most restaurants will have a family section. However a few restaurants are men only so pay attention to the signs.

3. You can do this at the starbucks which is in the nice plaza across from Khazama hotel. I’m sure there are others but I can ‘t think of them at the time.

4. you can certainly shop alone. And if you choose to shop in Olaya where there are multiple walls and unique shops you driver ccan drop you and you have a large variety of choice stores

5. Due its location as well as its facility staffed with professionals, Yibreens has been a statement. However there is also this spa http://americanbedu.com/2008/08/28/so-what-if-riyadh-has-a-women-only-hotel/which you may also enjoy. And I think there is a spa in the diplomaitic quarters too.
maryam, on December 28, 2009 at 7:06 pm said:

dear ms. bedu,
I am very relieved to find your website for i am very desperate to find someone i can ask for advice. I have this saudi boyfriend and i know that he loves me very much. He already asked me to marry him but the problem is his family don’t even i exists (but his brother does) and for sure that they’ll not approve of me. I told my family about marrying him and they’re cool about it. Aother problem is that I am a Filipina. Also, we are both young but we really do love each other. If ever we get married, he plans to tell his family about that when he returns home.. Help pls..
thank you so much.
American Bedu, on December 28, 2009 at 7:35 pm said:

Dear Maryam,

I suggest you do a search on the word marriage from the search bar on my blog. You will find a number of posts about the Saudi marriage process as well as experiences of many married or not to Saudis.

I do not want to discourage you but the fact that you mention you are both young, his family does not know about you and he is suggesting marriage and then telling his family AFTER he returns is not optimistic. You cannot be with him in Saudi as his wife without official recognition and permission. Therefore if the two of you marry, it could likely be a long distance marriage. And there is the fear of his family pressuring him to marry someone else. He could in fact already be engaged.

A foreign woman should NEVER agree to marriage to a Saudi if she learns the family are not aware of her existence and the Saudi is under 30 years of age and/or a student on a government sponsored scholarship. This is a time when you cannot allow love to be blind. Marriage to a Saudi requires that there is understanding and a plan since approval is required. If the government does not give approval or delays approval, can he/would he choose to remain outside of the Kingdom with his foreign wife instead?
Gary, on January 4, 2010 at 5:58 am said:

Dear Bedu, it is great to read over the info on your website. Thanks for all of your insights. I was offered a job in K.S.A. I wanted to know if I am able to bring music tpaes and C.D.s over to Saudi if I go. what about MP3 players? I am someone who loves music and I’m hoping i can still enjoy hearing american music in my home if I move to K.S.A. thank you very much, Gary
Danny, on January 4, 2010 at 2:16 pm said:

Dear Carol,

I am planning to adopt a cat from a local shelter in Riyadh run by some very passionate people, and would like to someday also take it with me when I return back home on my final exit from here (or even on vacations – if that is doable).

A lady at the shelter told me that the costs are too high and the legal hurdles are many? since you are an experienced, travelling cat owner – your insight and guidance on this will be very helpful. I really want to adopt this sweet cat at the shelter – and I am desperate for some credible info!

Regards,

Danny

PS: I have googled my brains out on this topic – there is nothing on taking pets out of KSA – only articles on bringing pets into KSA.
American Bedu, on January 4, 2010 at 2:39 pm said:

Dear Danny,

Here are some links which I believe will help you and put you in touch with individuals familiar with traveling with cats both IN and OUT of the Kingdom:

http://americanbedu.com/2008/05/19/operation-kitty-rescue-riyadh/

http://americanbedu.com/2009/11/12/adopt-a-cat-from-saudi-arabia/

http://americanbedu.com/2008/02/08/tribute-to-dr-majed-and-in-memory-of-max-amillion/

Taking a cat back and forth while on holidays can be problematic and have logistical challenges as compared to the “big move” in or out. I would suggest a reputable cat sitter instead.

In addition, a service that I have used which I recommend for any international traveler with pets and wanting to ensure smooth travels, do not hesitate to contact:

http://www.airclubforpets.com/

Since I arrived in KSA during the month of Ramadan, Club Pet greatly facilitated the travel of my 3 cats and made all the paperwork a breeze.

Good luck! Carol
Tiffany, on January 5, 2010 at 2:24 am said:

Dear Carol,

I have known my saudi boyfriend for four years now, and we have been in a serious relationship for 2 and a half years. He’s very protective, he doesn’t allow his friends to see me unless he’s very close to them, and he keeps an eye on me, like no guy’s numbers on my phone, no guys pretty much period, and that’s fine, I completely understand that. What I don’t understand is how he thinks it’s okay for him to talk to girls but freaks out if a guy smiles at me too long. I’m trying to figure out how to calm down his jealous reactions. I understand about not having guys friends, I’m persian, so I’ve switched to my father freaking out about where I’m going and what I’m doing, to my boyfriend now taking the role. They are to the point that my father even talked to my boyfriend about what time he expects me to go to sleep on the weekends. So I’m “conditioned” to handle a lot, but lately my boyfriend is getting very very jealous over everything. Last night it was over me laughing at a guy for hitting his head on a sign. Since you’re around Saudis so much, is that normal???

Another thing I was wondering, if he’s keeping me a secert from his family, our relationship will most likely end once he’s done with school???

Thank you so much!

Sincerely,

Tiffy
xpersianxrosex, on January 5, 2010 at 2:39 am said:

I forgot to log in…

Sorry about that!

~Tiffy
Aima, on January 8, 2010 at 5:10 pm said:

Dear Bedu,

I’m an American female 32 yrs, I have been in a relationship with a Pakistani guy for 2 years, he is currently in KSA where he has lived for all his life, He was here in America studing he finished and the he left..by then we were just friends and our relationship started years after… He asked me to marry him and to start our life’s together over in KSA. He is a wonderful guy, beauty full feelings and very very family oriented. We talk everyday and we chat almost every day as well. All his family know about me, and when he visits his mom, and we chat his family always send greetings to me,I really feel his love for me and I love him to much. We are both aware of the changes we both have to make in order to adapt to each others life’s. And we are both willing to make the changes. I told him that once I’m there I want to work, him and his brothers and friends are helping me get a job there since I want to work, I finnally got a call and a phone interview from a hospital in Jeddah and we are just waiting for the hospital to answer me….Inshallah …i will get selected! My question is once I get to travel to Jeddah, How can we get married in order to be together? Also I want to build a group of female friends and I hope that you can help me… I have many many concerns…
MiMi, on January 8, 2010 at 8:33 pm said:

Dear Bedu,

We are considering a move to Riyadh but I have a few questions to which I cannot seem to find the answers.

Where is the American International School in Riyadh? Is it located in the DQ? Is there a “diplomatic compound” or is that the same as the Diplomatic Quarter? Are there housing compounds near the school? Which ones? Or is the school in a compound? If I wanted to drop my children at school, would I be able to travel without my husband in a car with a driver?

What are you feelings about bringing a Golden Retriever with us? Are there kennels for dogs or services to care for our pet when we travel?

Thank you so much for your help. You are a wonderful resource!!!
American Bedu, on January 9, 2010 at 4:32 am said:

Hi MiMi and welcome to the Blog. I will try to answer all of your questions for you.

The International School is located off of Telephone Pole Road (or maybe it’s called electric pole road) and is not in the vicinity of the DQ (Diplomatic Quarter). The Diplomatic Quarter is not a compound but it is comprised of embassies, businesses and residences and apartment buildings. There are also many compounds which are located in all areas of Riyadh. I know there are some not too far from the International School but do not recall the names. And yes, you could easily have a driver take you and/or your child to the diplomatic school.

If you bring your Golden Retriever you’d likely have to identify him as a guard dog since KSA only allows guard dogs or seeing eye dogs in. But once you have him with you, Dr. Majed has boarding kennels when needed. In addition many expats with pets will usually have another expat housesit and pet sit for them while they are gone.

All the best and do not hesitate with any other questions. Carol
Umm Ibrahim, on January 9, 2010 at 1:21 pm said:

Tiffy,
First I wanna ask whats your ethnic background? Are you Persian by chance (I see your other log in) and are you Muslim?

I’m gonna give my 2 cents…as Im living in KSA right now with my husband (neither of us are Saudi or Arab) we are Persian-American background and as a Muslim i feel like I can give you the cold hard truth.

Unless your boyfriends parents regularly call and ask how you are, ask to say Hi to you then yes, your a secret to them and unless a miracle happens as soon as he finishes school he’ll say ma salaama and go back to KSA and marry a Saudi girl!

Now, if he was a religious Muslim boy he wouldnt be dating anyway-period…or he would insist you two be married (religiously atleast) and his family would know about you.

But it sounds like youo two are just dating and he’s enjoying having someone to be with, no strings attached sort of thing.

Now, the last yr of my husbands PhD he worked at a restaurant and several of the busboys and waiters were young Saudi students and some had American girlfriends, my husband would ask them…well why arent you marrying them or does your family know about them? Etc…all in all they all said they were just having fun, partying and will go back to KSA, settle down there. They had no intention to marry their girlfriends, one guy said he’ll “be a good Muslim” once he goes back home, here he just wants to have fun.

So, nuff said…
Aima, on January 9, 2010 at 3:16 pm said:

Hi Bedu… you never replied to my message
American Bedu, on January 9, 2010 at 4:13 pm said:

Mea Culpa Aima! I missed your message and am so sorry!

I’m very glad to know that you also interact with his family which is important. What I suggest is that he should make the inquiries on the process of marriage between two expats in Saudi Arabia. As I understand, you plan to go to Saudi with the hospital as your sponsor. Because as you probably are aware, you could not go to Saudi without a sponsor and your fiance could not sponsor you since you are not married yet.

Another thought for consideration is if the two of you could marry elsewhere (US/Bahrain/somewhere else) and then he process the paperwork to have you added on his iqama? It may take several weeks to a few months but it is another option.

And of course please ask any additional questions you may have.

All the best, Carol
Aima, on January 9, 2010 at 4:26 pm said:

THANK YOU soooo much…Well yes, we are waiting on the result of the interview I had last week, if not we are going to meet in Egypt to get married and then he can apply for me…

Of course I rather go under the Hospital sponsorship just not to depend on him at the begining. I want to be able to work, have my routine and make money.

So far its been a good long online relationship and we can’t wait to be together. He tells me that even if his family doesn’t like me at the begging … He will do what it takes for them to accept me and love me at the end. Only God and time will tell.

He visits his mom’s house outside of Jeddah every weekend and he already told me that he plans to take me there as soon as I get there.

His mother off course is pushing him to marry someone else and every weekend she talks about girls but he already told him that he is waiting for me.

Sometimes I’m afraid that his mother at the end could force him to marry someone else or put the pressure on him to do so, he is the next one to get married and there are like 4 more brothers after him…

He is the most SWEET romantic person I have ever meet in my life, he is very conservative as well but since he lived here in USA he tells me that for me he will change and accept many things…

I told him that I wanted to have a group of friends to go visit or have coffe or tea or just get together every week and he said that he has no problem at all.

Thanks for talking to me and give me your advise and your point of view.
American Bedu, on January 9, 2010 at 4:39 pm said:

@Aima – His mother’s reaction can be interpreted as early warning signals. Hopefully she will get to know you more and will be your protector and champion. Make sure you and your fiance talk candidly about the marriage contract. You would not want his mother to apply pressure at a later date after you all have married that he should also marry “one of his own.” This happened to an American friend of mine who married a Pakistani. They had been married several years and then his mother applied pressure on her son that it was his obligation to also have a Pakistani wife and although she (the mother) liked the American wife, she expected the American wife to support her husband in doing his duty!

There are so many expats in Saudi and particularly if you work in a hospital. I’m sure you would find it very easy to make a circle of friends.
Aima, on January 9, 2010 at 4:55 pm said:

Ok, when you tell me about the marriage contract what exacly do you mean? He already has asked me how much do I want as Mahr and I have no clue in what to tell him…

I told him that I wanted to get married in Egypt that way my family can assist the wedding as well and he said yes, but that we also had to do it in Jeddah because his family will plan a big wedding (500 – 700 guest)…

Should I still take the Mahr from him since he is going to have a lot of expenses with me, paper work, apartment, accomodation and all?

And I hope I can include you in my circle of friends ..
American Bedu, on January 9, 2010 at 5:19 pm said:

@Aima,

I would suggest you do a search within the search bar of my blog on the topic of marriage contracts where I have not only written earlier about this, but you will find additional helpful info in the comments readers provided too.
Huda, on January 10, 2010 at 4:45 am said:

Dear Bedu, Hello! I enjoy your blog very much yet at the same time find it very sad for me. I am an American Muslim involved with a Saudi student. With that said, we are equally breaking the laws of Islam to be together. However, we know that he could loose his scholarship if we marry. However, my question to you is this…. I am planning on coming to Jeddah as a contract nurse. If I am there working will it be any easier for us to get permission to marry? Thanks for being here with advice.
Huda
American Bedu, on January 10, 2010 at 10:04 am said:

Dear Huda,

While I cannot say for sure whether it would be easier to get the permissions to marry if you are in KSA working, I do think it is a good idea for you to take a position in KSA before marriage so you can get exposed to the country and its culture.

I’m sure you are also aware of the rules concerning segregation and no-mixing or going out with anyone who is not related. The Muttawa can and will challenge couples for proof of relationship.

But if he has an open and modern family who wishes to meet you and get to know and his sister or mother collects you then that would be okay.

Good luck to you! Carol
Aima, on January 12, 2010 at 12:08 pm said:

Dear Bedu, I wrote to you a couple of days ago and I just wanted to share with you that I got the call today from the King Faisal Hospital in Jeddah to tell me that the job is MINE…..I’m so happy and excited…We just have to start preparing all the paper work and visa and I should be there soon…Inshallah..
American Bedu, on January 12, 2010 at 6:27 pm said:

Mabrook Aima!!!! This is such exciting and good news for you! I’m happy for you and please keep me apprised of your progress and move.
Huda, on January 13, 2010 at 1:44 am said:

Thank you Bedu! I was wondering if you could put me in contact with Aima? She just received a job with the hospital I am applying for as well in the same city Jeddah! Mabrook Aima! Alhumdulilah! Thought we might become friends and help each other out! Thank you again! Huda
Aima, on January 13, 2010 at 5:15 am said:

Salam HUDA , THANKS ……of course you can contact me, I ‘ll be glad to be your friend, here is my address aima1214@hotmail.com ….Add we so we can start our friendship
Huda, on January 14, 2010 at 6:09 am said:

Thanks Aima! And thank you American Bedu for all you do for your bloggers! I will continue to read!
Safia, on January 14, 2010 at 2:29 pm said:

Dear Bedu

Salaam

I am a Single female from UK and have recently applied for a job at a hospital in Riyadh- I have a few questions I would like to ask please –

I am aware that women have to wear the abaya when going out (which is not an issue for me as I am a Muslim and already observe the hijaab) and that women are not allowed to be seen out with a man who is not related to them – was wondering would I be able to go out on my own?

Is English the language predominantly used in an office environment ? I am quite keen to improve my Arabic

Many thanks
Anne GT, on January 14, 2010 at 6:44 pm said:

Hello

I came across your great blog when I was doing research and I hope you don’t mind me asking a question.

We are an international relocation company looking for part-time Destination Consultants to help newly arriving expats and their families settle in to Riyadh. It’s a fun role that needs good English language and people skills.

Do you have any suggestions for a good place to post a job advert?

Thank you in advance for your help.

Anne
American Bedu, on January 14, 2010 at 9:31 pm said:

W’alaikum Salam Safia,

Welcome to the blog and thank you for your question. First, English is the primary language used among staff in hospitals. Secondly, you will find it easy to go out on your own for shopping and running errands. I’m sure colleagues will recommend a reliable private taxi (limo) service for you. In which city will you be working?

Best Regards, Bedu
American Bedu, on January 14, 2010 at 9:46 pm said:

Hi Anne,

Please email me directly to discuss at admin@americanbedu.com

Regards, Carol
safia, on January 15, 2010 at 12:03 am said:

The hospital is in Riyadh – not sure what part yet.

Can I just say , I think this website is great!

and if I am successfull in getting this job- then no doubt you shall hear from me again with more questions.

Ma’saalama
American Bedu, on January 15, 2010 at 4:31 am said:

@Safia – There are many good hospitals in Riyadh with active expat workers. I’ve no doubt you will settle in quickly.

Thank you for the kind words and it is a pleasure to help.
Alex, on January 15, 2010 at 9:04 am said:

Dear Bedu,

I don’t know if your an economist or anything, but from what you can see, does it look like Saudi Arabia will fall economically once the oil dries up, or is the government developing the country in a way it can continue to develop without the export of oil?
American Bedu, on January 15, 2010 at 10:26 am said:

Welcome Alex,

Good question. Of course there would be an impact if the oil disappeared. King Abdullah is also seeking to make Saudi Arabia know for its educational and financial achievements through building the King Abdullah University of Science & Technology as well as his King Abdullah Financial and Economic Cities. And if gets development underway, Saudi Arabia could also be a great venue for eco-tourism.
Tiffany, on January 19, 2010 at 12:47 am said:

@Umm Ibrahim

I’m so sorry it took so long for me to reply, I’m half persian, half German, American raised Sunni, lol….

I’m glad you are blunt with me, I appericate it very much. Yes, it insults me that his family doesn’t know about me, my german side has disowned me for dating a Saudi, but my persian side, surprisingly, loves him.

Yeah he’s actually the thrid Saudi guy I’ve dated, and I’ve been around Saudi’s for a good 14 years, I’ve seen the good, who will hardly look at me, and the bad who will do a line of coke right in front of me and tell an Indian waiter to buy back his family from his servant house….so yeah, I’ve been around, and I certainly know what it means to “Party like a Saudi”. I don’t know if the one I am with is mature enough or brave enough to bring me back, I do know he loves me, but again, I think it’s a “Damned if you damned if you don’t” ordeal. I’m just riding the wave…once he’s done with school, which will be in another year and a half, we’ll see how it goes….

You’re persian living in Saudi btw????
Save the Women!, on January 19, 2010 at 1:15 am said:

Tiffany, you know how saudis in america are, but you have no idea how they will be in saudi. You do not seem to realise that once you are in saudi you have absolutely no rights, no freedoms but what your husband deigns to give you.
If you have not met his mother and sisters you may be in a very bad situation if they do not agree on this marriage.
And do you know that getting the marriage approved can take more than five years? If at all? Unless he is very well off and has the wasta and bribe money to make it happen. He cannot marry you while he is studying.
And if ”dating” means ”sleeping with” then I doubt if he is really planning to marry you at all. I think he’s just making use of you. He allows his best friends to be with you? But not his family? This man has no respect for you and no long term plans.
He will go back to saudi, and call you and complain but he will not marry you. Then he will start complaining that his family wants him to marry his cousin or another saudi girl they have chosen for him and he doesn’t want to marry her but he cannot refuse etc. and he will marry her. And maybe after a year or so he will even come back to you and ask to be his second wife.
It has happened before.
Sandy, on January 19, 2010 at 8:48 am said:

Tiffy, This guy is acting like he owns you and he is controlling you. What do you mean “you understand” that he is checking your mobile and you aren’t allowed to talk to men- but he can talk to women? He’s jelous all the time? Step back, re-read your letter, what would you tell a friend? Probably “run for your life”.

Should he manage to get you back to Saudi you will for all intents and purposes “belong” to him. Any children you have will “belong” to him as well. You will generally only get what rights your husband gives you. Your boyfriend sounds like he’ll give you none.

You deserve better- everyone does. Ten years and 3 kids down the road- max- you’ll feel a desparate need to get out. And you won’t be able to.

Better some heartbreak now- than the kind of heartbreak you will almost certainly face. You’ve given no indication at all that he would make a good husband. Love is never enough- and especially not in Saudi.
k.b., on January 19, 2010 at 7:45 pm said:

Dear Bedu,

I’ve been dating a Saudi for the last couple of years now, while he’s studying here in the states on scholarship. He has dual citizenship, since he was born in US and lived here until his family moved back to Saudi when he was in gradeschool. He’s never told his parents about us, but his older brothers and cousins know. I’ve even grown close to his older brother, and met him when he came to the states. His mother does know who I am, and I’ve even spoken to her on the phone a few times. (when naif goes back to the states, i pick out clothes for him to take back to her, brands that are hard to find cheaply in saudi). In return, she’s sent back with him beautiful necklaces and earrings as thank yous for me.

His family is coming soon for his graduation, and I will be meeting his mother for the first time as his girlfriend. I am absolutely terrified, since naif plans to tell her that we are dating, and that we hope to get married.

I read alot about Saudi culture, and norms, and try to absorb as much as I can to prepare myself for possibly being married to a muslim Saudi man. But I have no idea how to prepare myself or what to do when he springs this on his mother.

Please, any advice would be amazing. I.E. what to wear, what to say. I already know what not to do. I just am so freaking terrified that she is going to just hate me. And to be honest, in her shoes, I would probably hate me too, but if there is any advice you have- please please please- I’m desperate.
American Bedu, on January 20, 2010 at 12:47 am said:

Dear KB,

Actually what you described sounds much more encouraging than many other cases. You have spoken to his mom, she knows you have helped select gifts and she has sent back gifts for you.

My suggestion is when you meet his mom and other families, dress conservatively. Wear a long skirt or slacks and a loose shirt. And it is important to be yourself and allow your natural personality to show through. Do you know if she speaks English or will your Saudi be an interpreter?

It also seems like he comes from a more open family given he was born in the US. So that indicates exposure of his parents to US customs and traditions.

I wonder if your Saudi would actually introduce you as his girlfriend or rather someone he has come to know and care about very much with common interests.

I hope this helps and please do not hesitate to ask any additional questions.

Good luck! Carol
k.b., on January 20, 2010 at 3:40 am said:

The plan is to introduce me, as myself (she’s been wanting to meet me because of our previous interactions), and THEN after she meets me, we’re going to tell her that we’ve been dating.

Yes, his family is interesting. His parents and brothers lived in the states for 20 years, while his father earned his doctorate. His mother speaks english very well actually, so when we’ve spoken, we spoke directly to one another. My saudi wouldn’t be the best interpreter because his arabic is pretty weak, and consists mostly of saudi slang (he was never taught formally, and went to an english speaking highschool in riyadh).

The issue is that even though his family is seemingly more aware and open, his family still maintains a very traditional backbone and adherence to their cultural customs. His eldest brother had an arranged marriage, and Naif would be the first brother to be bold enough to introduce a girlfriend to his mother. Or more specifically, introduce me as a woman that he intends to marry.

I just know that if I was a mother, and my son was overseas studying for a long time- and then after all that time, I found out that he was both lying and withholding that he had this really significant person taking care and (basically) living with him- I would murder him and possibly hate her for taking my baby boy without any warning.

Not to mention that I’m white, and non-muslim. Oh, and cause a potential threat of him not living in Riyadh.

Thank you for responding! I really love reading the perspective of your blog, and the viewpoints of other Saudi women. I have to look to the internet and literature for a womens point of view on these things, since making friends with Saudi girls is near impossible here.
American Bedu, on January 20, 2010 at 4:16 am said:

@KB,

I’m not sure if I would use the term dating with his parents for that might come across as too aggressive. Perhaps he could say this is the individual I’ve come to know through my studies. I also would not volunteer that you have been living with him or have any of your stuff in his place that could imply cohabitating. Those are actions which could bring you down in his parents eyes.

And it is not unusual for it to be difficult to make friends with female Saudi students if they are aware you’ve been dating and living with a Saudi.

Approximately how long is it before his parents arrive?
coolred38, on January 20, 2010 at 6:50 am said:

“could bring you down in his parents eyes”

but not affect his own standing in anyway…as boys are meant to be boys in the middle east…and while abroad.
Umm Ibrahim, on January 25, 2010 at 2:32 pm said:

Tiffany…doostam…arreh…va be-arabestan zendegi mikonim…lemme tell you…kheili doost nadarim! Sorry farsiyam kheili bad-e…and I keep now mixing languages. LOL… (I wanna say other stuff be-farsi but fear others might read and understand…ahem)

basheh digeh, anyway…I say forget the guy, his family doesn’t know about you and actually…your persian, and I dont know…Persians are both feared and loathed here..so it’s a toss up about what his family may think about you anyway and I donno…maybe just dont worry about it. Like he’ll probably “kick you to the curb” anyway once he’s done with school..regardless of how long you guys have been together. Go find yourself a nice good Persian guy, or even a mixed Persian guy, you’ll have cultural similarities and while Irani inlaws can be difficult at times, atleast there are enough similarities to en’shallah over come any difficulties…

I donno, just my yek toman.
Nancy, on January 26, 2010 at 8:39 am said:

Dear Bedu,

Stumbled on your site while surfing and curious about life for KSA women. I have no other connection than curiousity.

Your site is fascinating, I’ve spent hours exploring every corner. It’s rich with all sorts of information for those who have more of a connection than I have.

Just want to congratulate you for maintaining an incredibly informative and high quality blog for those who need to know about living there. This is the first time I’ve felt compelled to leave a comment on a blog.

Nancy
American Bedu, on January 26, 2010 at 3:58 pm said:

Thank you Nancy! I do hope you will comment more too!

Best Regards, Carol
Fita, on January 26, 2010 at 7:00 pm said:

Dear Carol,

I really want to know how long and how can you get along with all the restriction here for the women. I’ve been only 10 months here, and I still can fit in. I know some ladies take private taxi to go around the city. But for me it’s still the restriction, because the taxi driver only can pick up at several times.
Is it save if I go alone by regular taxi around the city?

What do you suggest? I really appreciate for your share. Thank you.
American Bedu, on January 27, 2010 at 1:22 am said:

@Fita,

Honestly, Saudi is not for everyone and not all who come find they can adapt to the changes in lifestyle and culture. I do attribute some of my former career which taught me how to adapt and understand differing cultures rather than reject which helped ease my transition to KSA.

I would not hesitate to take public taxis within downtown Riyadh but I would not take an unknown public taxi to any area that is not but a few minutes away. If you ask around you should be given names of drivers who have proven reputations and are reliable and safe. I understand how important just being able to be out and about can be.
Fita, on January 27, 2010 at 9:45 am said:

Thank you for the spirit from the expert one, it gives me more confidence to try more hard to fit in.
xpersianxrosex, on February 2, 2010 at 10:18 pm said:

I was told that it is accepted that a man can hit a woman in Saudi Arabia, and that also if a woman pushes or slaps a man, a man is no longer considered a man. Is this true?
American Bedu, on February 3, 2010 at 4:34 am said:

I wrote an earlier post on my blog with a clip from a sheik explaining how a “man can beat a woman” but it was very clear that if a man felt a woman needed “disciplining” it was not acceptable to hit her or inflict pain or damage. He is allowed to take a feather and run it across her body.

And I’ve never heard anything about a woman who pushes or slaps a man brings down the man….but I’m not in favor of either sex making any attempt to hit or slap the other!
xpersianxrosex, on February 3, 2010 at 5:31 am said:

May I have the link to the entry you are talking about please? Cause I heard that it was like that too, or like a toothbrush hitting the palm of the hand.
American Bedu, on February 3, 2010 at 7:12 pm said:

If you search within my blog I believe on the terms “how to beat your wife.”

I’m sorry…normally I would find the link for you but I’m unable to do so today.
Gerry, on February 3, 2010 at 9:50 pm said:

Dear Carol,

I am in the process of negotiating an employment offer in Riyadh.
I will be travelling with my wife and three boys ages 9 – 16.
Could you give me ” the nickel tour ” of what life would be like living in a compound and your opinion of American schools in the area. My wife needs some re-assuring on this move! Thanks…
American Bedu, on February 4, 2010 at 6:11 am said:

Dear Gerry,

I do encourage you and your wife to do a series of searches from within my blog to learn more about life in Riyadh and things to do.

Life on a western compound is very much like a little America. Once inside the secured walls of the compound your children will be able to ride their bikes, play with other kids and do all the activities you’d want them to do. Most compounds are very sociable with a variety of activities and usually have busses to popular shopping places.

I would advise if not already done and if possible, to negotiate tuition into your benefits package. The American International school is excellent but it is also costly.

Good luck and Congratulations! Carol
Gerry, on February 4, 2010 at 11:51 pm said:

Dear Carol,

Many thanks for your prompt response. Your blog has a wealth of information that is proving invaluable as we work thru the options on the table.
We have reviewed the American International School website and were thoroughly impressed with the curriculum.
I am sure my wife will have a question or two as decision time approaches and hope you do not mind if we stay in touch over the coming weeks. many thanks, Gerry.
American Bedu, on February 5, 2010 at 4:32 am said:

Dear Gerry,

I’m happy that my blog is able to assist you and your family. Do not hesitate with your questions and if your wife has any questions she would wish to ask directly, I can be emailed at admin@americanbedu.com

Regards, Carol
Gerry, on February 10, 2010 at 1:32 am said:

Dear Carol,

My deepest sympathies.

From reading your blog it is evident that you were two special people.

My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Gerry.
Dana, on February 11, 2010 at 8:35 pm said:

Dear Carol, I am Romanian living in USA and married to a Saudi man. I got my US citizenship two years ago.My husband is trying to get me a visa to go to Saudi and adventually get my Saudi citizenship.My question to you is that once i become a Saudi citizen, would i have to give up my American citizenship? I am aware of the fact that Saudi does not accept dual citizenship. Would I be able to keep both citizenships, or that only applies to native born Americans and not to naturalized ones? Thank you , Dana
American Bedu, on February 12, 2010 at 5:40 am said:

Dear Dana,

You would likely need to be in Saudi for five years before being able to apply for Saudi citizenship – which if you intend to live in Saudi will give you some valuable benefits.

When that time comes, first inform the US embassy of your intent and confirm whether they still have the program that you would be reissued another American passport after having accepted the Saudi citizenship. You would want to speak with the US Citizen Services Officer.

Good luck, Carol
Arbgrlusa, on March 4, 2010 at 5:39 pm said:

Dear Carol,
I am concerned about your ability to return to KSA, did you become a citizen? I am assuming you did not, given your ties to the USA. Please contact me if you have any troubles in this matter.
Congratulations on your last chemo treatment!! Take care,
Mariam
American Bedu, on March 5, 2010 at 4:13 am said:

Dear Mariam, I will email you.

Best Regards, Carol
Nor, on March 6, 2010 at 5:39 pm said:

Dear Carol,

First of all, I would like to wish u a blessing life for a very informative blog that u publish here and I am sure most of the reader find it well too.I am Muslim Asian lady who have been working in the kingdom for the past 2 years.Honestly after all i have fall in love with a Saudi’s..hurmm which I was still try to figure out about the relationship that I have…Most of my friends keep on advising me not to have a relationship with a Saudi man because of the culture and etc…I am still confuse with what’s on my mind actually.I do love my Saudi bf and he also do love me so much….We keep on discussing about our future..since he is military person at this point…and there is a protocol in military person to marry only Saudi’s…(but according to him there is a way to work it out since his uncle also a military person but married to foreigner) I really scared if the parents wont accept me…It is so complicated at this point..He plans to tell his parents about me and his plan to marry me…but i was so terrify about the result which they might not accept me…since the parents is a little bit conservative…Anyway he already share about us to his older sister and his sister give him a full of support…I wish all of these will runs smoothly..About my families I am sure they wont be so much problem…I do heard about all those law to marry a foreigner here but i still do not have a clear cut of it…to much saying…that the man should be more than 32 years of age and certain amount of salary and etc….Wish me luck my dear…I wish i can go through this…since my bf he feel so insecure about the fact that i might leave him if the families cannot accept me…

Lots of love,

Nor
American Bedu, on March 7, 2010 at 5:07 am said:

Dear Nor,

I cannot tell you that it will be easy but I will also say it is not impossible. I do know of a few foreigners who are married to career Saudi military officials. Some of the wives lived in Bahrain until marriage was finally approved. Much will be as you said up to your Saudi BF and the reaction/support from his family. Please let me know how I can support you.

All the best, Carol
American Mom, Saudi Dad, on March 12, 2010 at 12:35 am said:

Dear Bedu (Carol),

I am preparing to visit my family in Jeddah for the first time in over 20 years. I am a dual citizen- I was born and raised in the US, but my father obtained citizenship for me there as well. I don’t speak Arabic, and I am not Muslim (I am a proud Christian in fact). I have little to no exposure to the culture and customs, and I am worried about the legal and religious restrictions I will be held to as a Saudi citizen while I am there, especially since I will be visiting with my two young daughters which are the product of my marriage to my soon to be ex husband (American). I have full custody, so I was able to obtain visit visas for them, but I am more concerned about what restrictions I will be under, as I am traveling on my Saudi passport, not my American one. My father and I are trying to re-establish a relationship, but there have been trust issues in the past. My brother and mother think it is risky, but they know it is important for me so they are being supportive. I will be traveling alone with my two children. What kind of risks am I really taking? Will I be able to enjoy my visit without knowing Arabic or the religious/social customs or the laws? I feel like I am taking a big leap of faith in my estranged family here, and I could use some reassurances and some idea of what to expect.

Thanks,
Samirah
American Bedu, on March 12, 2010 at 12:52 am said:

Dear Samirah,

You sound like a brave and adventurous woman!

My question is, what kind of relationship do you have with your father? And why are you choosing to travel on a Saudi passport if you have an American passport? How conservative or open is your father and family in Jeddah?

Now those questions being said, I would suggest prior to your travel, register with the American Embassy in Riyadh via the State dept ( http://www.state.gov) web site so your information and contact data is noted.

I suggest that in respect for the country you are visiting and your Saudi relatives to not flaunt in any way that you are a non-Muslim. Specifically be respectful to the culture knowing that you and your daughters would be expected to wear abayas and perhaps to cover your head as well.

It depends on where you are in Jeddah in regards to whether not knowing Arabic will be a problem. I would suggest having as a minimum a phrase book.

If you are traveling on your Saudi passport, is your father then sponsoring you? If so, he would be viewed as the mahrem (guardian) of you and your children while in Saudi. If you are traveling on a Saudi passport, you will likely be viewed and expected to act as a Saudi woman.

One can certainly understand the desire and gift in mending family rifts and I do not fault you for wanting to do that. Another thought for consideration is to first meet with your Saudi family in Bahrain before deciding to travel to Saudi itself if you feel there are any risks to yourself or your children.

I strongly suggest to start reading up as much as possible and asking those around you who know about Saudi culture and customs. If your father’s family is more conservative, they may practice segregation in the home. Do you know if female family members speak English in the event you are segregated with them? You would feel more comfortable I’m sure knowing if you can communicate.

I’m sure I do not need to tell you to be warm and welcoming and natural. Have gifts for the special family members. Do not take photos without ensuring it is culturally correct – especially photos of women.

Please do not hesitate to follow up with specific questions.

I wish you all the best. Carol
Sanddunes, on March 13, 2010 at 9:48 am said:

Dear Bedu,
I have a question not related to relationships rather a techie one.

I have lived in another GCC country and I get TV channels easily without the need of a dish. But here in KSA, I am just getting two local channels with the TV indoor antenna.

I was wondering if its possible to get MBC channels with a receiver and an indoor or outdoor antenna and if so what kind of antenna would I be needing. I do not want to buy a huge dish . I just want a simple setup where I can view MBC. Is there a way for this?

Thanks
Sandunes
American Bedu, on March 13, 2010 at 9:00 pm said:

Dear Sanddunes,

That is a good question. I know that before we had a dish, we had basic cable which included MBC. I am speculating that with a local antenna you may only get access to Saudi Television and maybe al-ekbahrai (also part of Saudi Tv)
Sanddunes, on March 14, 2010 at 7:55 am said:

Dear Bedu,
Thanks for your reply.

It is interesting to know that you used to get MBC without the dish. Not anymore I guess. I get just the Saudi Channel 1 and the Saudi Sports channel. I would really like to get back to my programmes with MBC. I would appreciate if anyone can help me with this.

By the way, I love your blog. There is something about it that just draws me towards it! Very informative.

Sanddunes
American Bedu, on March 14, 2010 at 6:26 pm said:

Dear Sanddunes,

The MOFA compound where we lived had cable which allowed MBC and some others (not too many). I really think anyone in Saudi needs to get a dish in order to have a wide variety. Unless you are on a compound which offers its own selections as part of the compound package.
Sanddunes, on March 15, 2010 at 5:13 pm said:

So it may still be possilbe to get MBC with just the regular local antanne, I suppose.

Yes with dish one can get a variety of channels but I am not looking for that. – Thanks
American Bedu, on March 15, 2010 at 5:40 pm said:

@Sanddunes – I can not answer in regards to a local antenna.
Andrea, on March 20, 2010 at 3:19 pm said:

Dear Bedu,

Greetings!
Im a registered nurse here in the Philippines and just got a job offer last month from a public hospital in KSA. Im just sending thid email for information about the processes new hires have to go through after arriving in KSA. i understand that we have to go to the Saudi embassy there. And what will we do next after that? Is there anything else that we are required to do. Especially the medical exam. Do we have to do that all in one day. Please respond with the information. I will truely appreciate a reply. Thank you
American Bedu, on March 20, 2010 at 4:32 pm said:

Dear Andrea,

Welcome to American Bedu and thank you for posting your question.

You do not identify from which hospital you received your offer so I will give a general description which applies to most the hospitals.

Usually you will be met at the airport (after immigration) by a representative of your sponsor who will collect you and take you to your accomodations. Most medical staff will have an initial orientation at which time their passports are collected and applications are made for a temporary iqama. Orientation can be from three to five days depending on position.

There are no Saudi embassies within Saudi Arabia. Rather, it is the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and there is no need for incoming expat workers to go there. You may be thinking of Jawazat which is part of the Ministry of Interior and where iqamas are issued and renewed.

Yes; a medical is required on arrival. Since you will be working at a hospital it will likely be done there.

Best Regards, Bedu
olivia, on March 23, 2010 at 11:11 pm said:

This is a very general question that I’d like both you and other Muslims to possibly answer for me. I’m exploring and learning about the five pillars, and would like to know in what sense(s) are the pillars considered a ‘mercy’?
Nas, on March 24, 2010 at 8:07 am said:

@Olivia, Interesting question, Olivia.

The 5 pillars of Islam are exactly that. They are the foundations of Islam and all other aspects fall around these pillars. They are the obligatory acts. I do not understand what you mean by “mercy”.

Following these acts is very essential as a Muslim. You may already be knowing that these pillars are : Shahada (declaration), Salah (prayers), Saum (fasting), Performing Hajj, and Zakat.

I hope you understood me.

Nas
Ren, on March 26, 2010 at 6:52 am said:

Hello Bedu,

I am a 22 year-old woman who has been dear friends with a Saudi man I met here at college. We’ve been close friends since I was almost 19. Recently we decided we hope to be married in the future, maybe in a couple years. We both have found our first love. He is like no man, American or any other nationality, that impresses me with his character, positivity, mind and life philosophy. Believe it. I almost can’t.

I’ve been educating myself on Islam since I was a young teen. I studied Arabic in Jordan and as a consequence have lived in an Arab culture. He is a native of Jeddah. I met 3 of his brothers who study or graduated in the U.S. His sisters are educated (one is a doctor) and work outside the home. He treats the women in his life with love and respect. He loves his mother dearly (and me!), but said is satisfied just seeing her once a year.

In your opinion, being that he and I are both of the younger generation and try to be free-thinking and open, that if any two people could make a happy and successful inter-national marriage, outside or inside Saudi Arabia, it would be us? Do you know any couple like us?

It may be a bad idea for me to be reading sources such as the link below that do not fit my context, but I’m trying to cover my bases. This link is what I expected to find, and I figure that it will be found by my mother, because this is what will worry her. It is scary. I hope that I am living in reality, and the link is an expression of fear and unfortunate anecdotes.

http://www.meforum.org/520/us-department-of-state-marriage-to-saudis

Shu Ra’iik? What do you think?
American Bedu, on March 26, 2010 at 4:59 pm said:

@Ren,

Speaking from my own experience, one certainly can not predict who will end up being the love of their life.

There are a number of young women like yourself in America and many other places in the world who have fallen in love with a Saudi man while both are students. I do believe your exposure to the Middle East and its culture is an added plus towards a successful bi-cultural relationship.

Of course the State Department want to make sure American women have their eyes open to the potential pitfalls of a relationship with a Saudi and a life in the Kingdom. Many American/Saudi marriages do fail because of the differences in culture, customs and impact of less-accepting family members.

In my own view one of the keys to a successful bi-cultural relationship is communication. Another critical factor and more so if a couple lives in Saudi is the impact and influence of the extended family. Most foreign wives will arrive in Saudi and have no family in the Kingdom.

I wish there were a way one could predict with certainty whether a relationship will succeed or not. I’m sure if so, many divorces and heartache would be avoided! You sound like you have a solid and realistic head on your shoulders.

My advice in countering and allaying fears of your mother and other family members is to be realistic with them. I would not deny their valid concerns. Simply reassure them that your eyes are open and you are not jumping into the water without first knowing its depth. Be honest with them about what you feel. Maybe your Saudi may wish to consider what my dear beloved husband did as our relationship deepened. He called (as he was not in the USA) and introduced himself to them. He told them his intentions were sincere and honorable and asked them what questions would they like for him to answer.

Parents want the best for their child. And speaking as a mom myself, it is in our make-up to worry about our children! (smile) Don’t minimize your mom’s concerns. Remember they are stemming from love for you.

I hope I have been helpful to you and wish you all the best.

Bedu
prettypretenders, on April 9, 2010 at 12:09 am said:

wasn’t sure how i could share this with you…so posted here. hope that’s ok. a bit related to what you previously posted on. it’s not only a prob for saudi…some people just don’t like the sun!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1264332/How-sunscreen-turn-old-woman.html
American Bedu, on April 9, 2010 at 6:53 am said:

@pretty pretenders,

Thank you for sharing the valuable and informative article! Lack of vitamin D and/or natural sunlight is a detriment to ones health no matter where from!
Lada, on May 3, 2010 at 5:09 pm said:

Dear Carol!
Is there any store in Riyadh, like Michael’s in USA? I am in need of knitting yarn and other supplies for crafting. Also I would like to know a good veterinarian, since we brought our cat and dog (just came on April 26th). Are there places where I can walk my dog without problems of people being offended by my wonderful 13 years old Black Lab? It seems like people are not accepting dogs easily, though they sell puppies in animal stores.
Just to share the experience- we were so worried that we will have problems with pets at the Customs, since our flight was canceled 2 times due to volcano eruption in Iceland (originally we were supposed to leave on the 17and our pets travel documents expired on the 22nd), but surprisingly everything went smooth an easy, we were out of the airport in 40 minutes. My husband said, that he is encouraged to bring our other cat to KSA now, we could not take him, since his rabies vaccination was not 30 days old at a time of our leaving. A bit time consuming was to get all the required document in the USA, California, but now we know the procedure, and it is not hard at all. So, do not be afraid to bring your pets with you, people!!!
Thank you very much for wonderful reads and advice.
Sincerely,
Lada Quarashi.
American Bedu, on May 3, 2010 at 9:37 pm said:

Dear Lada,

I’m not aware of any store similar to Michael’s off the top of my head. Have you by any chance tried a Carrefour, since they seem to carry a little bit of everything? Now that you mentioned it, I’m not aware of any Saudi women I know who knit, crochet or do crafts. I believe there are scrapbooking groups at some of the compounds. I’ll have to ask around more for you.

Regarding walking your dog, I would suggest going to the diplomatic quarter where it is much easier to be out and about and without need of an abaya if you choose.

Dr. Majed (please do search on blog) is my all time favorite vet. There is a post about him with his contact data.

Thanks so much for sharing your experience.
Jenny Canar, on May 9, 2010 at 6:16 am said:

Hi,

As mentioned in your post, the availability of gyms for men abound in Riyadh. What about gyms for women? Is there a threat of gyms for women closing with this recent ‘setback’? I’m asking because I will be moving to Riyadh in August (I actually wrote to you in your Q&A forum many months back) and I am an avid exerciser. There is a gym on the compound where I will be living but it is quite small. I was hoping to join an alternative fitness gym but your most recent post has me wondering if this will not be possible.

Jenny
American Bedu, on May 9, 2010 at 6:31 am said:

Hi Jenny,

There may not be as many gyms for women but thankfully there are some and some good ones at that. My favorites include Yibreen’s (walking distance from King Faisal Hospital) or Al Manahal in the Diplomatic Quarter. There are others too and most compounds will have gyms and some which offer specialized classes too. I am confident you will find a fitness center to your liking in Riyadh.
prettypretenders, on May 18, 2010 at 11:39 pm said:

I hope we can discuss this on your blog.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1279299/Saudi-woman-beats-virtue-cop-stops-walking-man.html
prettypretenders, on May 18, 2010 at 11:46 pm said:

Lada,

There is a craft store located either in Oais or Taybah. These are well known souks here in Riyadh. But I’m sorry I’ve forgotten the name of the craft store.

It’s a good size store store so if you drive around those souk areas you are sure to find it easily.

If I remember the name I will post it here.
American Bedu, on May 19, 2010 at 4:24 am said:

Hi PP,

I have been following the articles on this subject. I have not posted anything yet as I do not feel enough information has been given yet on the topic. But I agree with you that it is a good subject to discuss and appreciate your suggestion.

Many thanks, Bedu
Sarah M, on May 29, 2010 at 9:46 am said:

I need to find a speech therapist for my almost 3 year old son, he still hasnt started talking properly and I’m getting worried. I need someone good, certified and would concentrate on English training over Arabic training. Which hospitals here in Riyadh have such a service?
American Bedu, on May 29, 2010 at 11:32 pm said:

I would suggest National Guard Health Affairs. If you are not a Saudi citizen, you may go to the Business Center and through there, are able to be treated. If not NGHA, check out Kingdom Hospital.

Good luck.
coolred38, on May 29, 2010 at 11:46 pm said:

Sarah M…my son didnt speak properly until nearly 4..unlike his sisters that were gabbing nonstop by 1 and a half. Kids develop differently. Dont start to panic just yet…some just take a little longer than others.
prettypretenders, on June 3, 2010 at 9:17 pm said:

I thought of some of your previous posts on abayah/hijab when I read this article…

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1283536/Debrahlee-Lorenzana-sues-Citigroup-fired-attractive.html
American Bedu, on June 4, 2010 at 1:19 am said:

Thanks for bringing to my attention. A very interesting read, especially the quip of being said she’d look very attractive in a burqa!
negligent, on June 4, 2010 at 10:23 pm said:

Another one for you…..and this IS naughty…check out the liaison ad from youtube posted here..

http://boingboing.net/

I wish they wouldn’t have shown quite so much of the lady dressing but then again I’m sure Muslims didn’t make the ad.

I would like to think she is going to surprise her husband in the car when he picks her up! Cheeky and fun! Completely halal liaison!
Anebu, on June 8, 2010 at 10:19 pm said:

Bedu,

Out of curiosity, do you know of any Western woman who has successfully received the Saudi citizenship?
American Bedu, on June 9, 2010 at 5:14 am said:

@Anebu,

Oh yes. I’m aware of quite a few throughout the Kingdom.
Anebu, on June 19, 2010 at 12:41 am said:

Bedu I realize you are not in Riyadh at the moment but I understand you lived several years here and hoped you could offer some advice…

I need a job but not just any job. It must be something I am interested in. Unlike you Masha Allah I do not have an impressive CV. I have only high-school. Friends recommend I tutor English or maybe even try my luck at teaching Pre-K. I however am not a teacher. Teaching does not interest me in the slightest. I have children of my own and when I have spare time to teach it would be them first, not a class full of stranger’s children. Teaching adults doesn’t appeal to me either.

Given that I have minimal skills and limited knowledge of Arabic what could I possibly do here in Riyadh that is fulfilling? And more importantly who would hire me?

I’ve been a stay at home mother for years but I feel as if I’m vegetating here. There simply must be something worthwhile I could do with my time that brings me joy and helps me be active again.

I am accustomed to on the job training, -perform while sleeping, mind numbingly boring- phone and data processing jobs. I would rather not go this route again here in Riyadh. I would prefer something more creative or even something geared towards helping others.

For example: Working at a ladies only photography studios or at some other position where I can release a lot of pent up creativity steam. Or perhaps work with the elderly or special needs children.

I want to do something but my lack of skills and shameful CV at this point keep me from even trying. I feel I can’t compete with Saudis and foreigners that do hold university degrees and who are much younger than myself.

Do you have any advice for me? Thank you.
American Bedu, on June 19, 2010 at 7:24 am said:

Dear Anebu,

I suggest that you contact the Woman Skills Bureau for starters:

http://americanbedu.com/2010/05/27/saudi-arabia-launch-of-the-women%E2%80%99s-skills-bureau/

I have also written other articles on the blog in the past about what kind of opportunities exist for expat women in the Kingdom.

http://americanbedu.com/2007/10/18/working-in-the-kingdom-as-an-ex-pat-woman/

What kind of work have you done in the past? What are your best skills and areas of expertise? What kind of work do you like to do?

Those are questions you need to answer which will start to narrow and focus your search on possible employment opportunities.

You are free to email me directly if you’d like to brainstorm. admin@americanbedu.com
sarah, on June 19, 2010 at 8:52 am said:

@Anebu,

I am going to be really nosey and put a comment. I don’t know your exact situation. Do you live on a compound? Most compounds usually have a recreation manager post done by expat women. But I think, if you have access to these compounds or groups of women, then there are great opportunities for self-start businesses.

You can make/sell things at coffee mornings and bazaars. You could actually volunteer to go to the compounds with your own idea, do a presentation etc. This is probably the most flexible way to do something. You could even raise money for a charity cause or something this way.

Other than that – what about online courses? You could study something just for your own interest and earn a qualification at the same time.

If you dont live on a compound, many of them allow westeners to come as guests to the clubs and events that they hold. You don’t necessarily have to live there.
American Bedu, on June 19, 2010 at 10:38 pm said:

Thank you Sarah for adding your excellent suggestions.
Anebu, on June 21, 2010 at 1:01 am said:

Thank you Bedu.

I like a variety of things but am I an expert in any of them? Hmmm. I am accustomed to phone and data processing jobs; very basic admin work. These are what little skills I have to offer. I do however want to branch out from this. I want something more creative. I may send you an email soon.

And Sara, no I don’t live on a compound but your suggestions are nice.

I do however need to keep childcare in mind so whatever I find must offer this. Or at the very least offer morning hours so I could work when the children are at school.

At this point I am looking to find work outside of the home so on line work doesn’t really appeal to me. I once considered studying on line for a degree. At least that was until I spoke with a friend about her experience. It took almost three years for her to earn a degree! And that’s on line! I imagined it would be quicker to attain. I would rather put that amount of time in at an actual campus. But I don’t stand a chance at studying at any of the colleges here in Riyadh given my very limited Arabic. And my family and I do not intend to leave Riyadh for many years to come Insha Allah. So I must get better at making things more enjoyable and fulfilling for me here.

Thank you both for responding.
American Bedu, on June 21, 2010 at 7:45 pm said:

Dear Abebu,

Some of the local large hospitals hire “locum” which is local employment. These positions typically do not come with benefits and offer a lesser salary than as an expat hire.

I do not know of any employers which include childcare. There are a few day care centers in Riyadh. However most women tend to have a housemaid, family or friend who looks after children.

Good luck in your search!

Best Regards, Bedu
sarah, on June 23, 2010 at 12:56 am said:

@anebu

If you want to get out of the house and meet more people, and if you are staying in Riyadh, why not learn Arabic. It could be a first step towards getting more qualifications and confidence. Also, chances are once you start meeting people you hear about opportunities through the grapevine.

There are only limited places for arabic courses in Riyadh. There is Dar ul Zikr (?) I think near Malaz which does Quranic arabic courses and has a childcare on site. There are arabic courses at the university and they may also have childcare but I didn’t find out myself about them. The British council also has some courses available.

Most compounds have a daycare facility which are reasonably priced and good environments. They allow non-residents to attend.

There is also Manahil centre in the DQ, they do some art courses and a few others. They have a website and it is a good place to meet people. Often the compounds also run courses on them. One of my neighbours used to run a project management course. There are also art classes, etc. It’s worth ringing up the recreation manager/s and asking.
American Bedu, on June 25, 2010 at 2:30 am said:

@Sarah,

Thank you for all those great suggestions!
Ashley, on July 1, 2010 at 9:58 am said:

Dear Bedu,

I am an africanAmerican female college student who met a black Saudi man at school back in march we have been dating ever since. I’m 20 and he’s 28 he’s been studying hard to go to graduate school and gets stressed very easily now he isn’t as affectionate towards me as he was when we started dating. Right now he says he needs space to past this test which i have given him space but I haven’t talk to him since june 14th. I guess my question is: Is it normal for Saudi men to become emotionally unavailable when they’re stressed out?

Thank you ,
Ashley
American Bedu, on July 1, 2010 at 6:32 pm said:

Dear Ashley,

If he is on a Saudi scholarship it can be very stressful for him as his scholarship will depend on maintaining a specific grade average. I also want to point out that if he is on a sponsored scholarship and/or his employer in Saudi Arabia prohibits him from relationships with a foreigner he may have distanced himself if he felt his status could be threatened. A last thought is if he was having family visit him who may not approve of his involvement with a foreigner, he could also have sought distance.

I would suggest that when you see him to ask him in a concerned (not confrontational) manner. Saudis are unable to have relationships or date as is typical in the United States. The majority of marriages are arranged by the families. Do you know for a fact that he is not already married?

Best regards, Carol
Ashley, on July 1, 2010 at 7:32 pm said:

He has told me he’s not married even on his Facebook his friends tease him about gettng married one day. He dosn’t have a job he just goes to school. The Saudi Embassy has told him that if he doesn’t get into graduate school by fall he will have to go home. As for his family he said his family wouldn’t mind him being with an American. I told him I was an Atheist and asked if his family would care he said as long as I have great personality his family wouldn’t care. He wants to study here at the University of Alabama but if he doesn’t make the score they want on his Gmat test he’ll have to go to Akron in Ohio so he has been very antsy lately.
American Bedu, on July 1, 2010 at 8:06 pm said:

@Ashley,

I see some red flags with what you have written. While he says his family would not care if he marries an American regardless of religious views, to include atheism, does not ring true. I’m sure that may be what HE is feeling and what he HOPES his family would say.

The other red flag is that his comments about study and universities seem to imply that he is on a government scholarship. Any student on a government scholarship is prohibited from marriage to a foreigner and violation can result in his immediate return to Saudi Arabia.

I am not trying to discourage you from a relationship but want to ensure that you are cognizant of some of the hard facts of involvement with a Saudi.

Best Regards, Carol
Ashley, on July 1, 2010 at 8:15 pm said:

Thanks Carol,

We will see what happens in the future then again I’m not sure he wants us to get married now like I said I’m only 20 but I guess dating me is fine until he decides if he’s going to work in the US or go home.

Love ya
American Bedu, on July 1, 2010 at 10:59 pm said:

You’re welcome Ashley and all the best!
Lada, on July 3, 2010 at 3:30 am said:

Dear Carol!
Maybe you can explain this bizarre tendency of Saudi homeowners to me.
We are in the process of looking for a villa for rent. Our budget is SAR 200.000 per year. So, we found several brand new villas,they are finished but there is no air conditioner and kitchen cabinets installed. The amount they want is 160.000 per year, I tell them, I will sign 2 year rent agreement and give them 200.000 per year if they install the air conditioners and kitchen cabinets. They refuse… they want us to do it at our own expense and not want to take 200.000. I am not even mentioning that there is no appliances either, so we need to buy our own (refrigerator, stove, dishwasher, range hood and washer/dryer). And, of course, it is unfurnished… What is this?
American Bedu, on July 3, 2010 at 5:52 am said:

Dear Lada,

How I wish you had read this earlier post of mine when you were on your househunting venture:

http://americanbedu.com/2007/12/18/home-sweet-home/

Most villas rented which are not on a compound are likely to be unfurnished. Most of your questions are answered in the post I wrote earlier. However if there are additional questions, please do not hesitate to ask.

Good luck!
Lada, on July 3, 2010 at 9:42 am said:

Thank you Carol!
I still do not understand, why someone does not provide livable conditions when renting property (I am mostly talking about AC and kitchen cabinets) and refuse to take money for those to be installed. It would stay with the house forever… Or they remove hose things after each renter moves out and encounter the same problem over and over again? To put an AC in 800 sq. m villa would cost around SAR 40 000 , kitchen would cost around SAR 20 000, they clearly have 20 000 gain from us, but apparently this amount is not satisfying them… I could understand if we were to buy an unfinished property and do it for ourselves. After this frustration I got a better idea, just to rent something for a year and start building a house in Durrat Al Riyadh…
American Bedu, on July 3, 2010 at 6:33 pm said:

@Lada,

It is not impossible to find a villa with a kitchen and a/c but it is more typical for villas to be without. Yes, each tenant is expected to equip the kitchen and other appliances. There are many stores, especially along Takhussessessee which feature “roll in kitchens.” That is my term since the kitchen units with cupboards, drawers, etc., are a complete unit on wheels that are easy to install and remove. Usually a new tenant may negotiate with the former tenant on buying kitchen units and other appliances.

I have to stress be careful with the landlord. Make sure any repairs or painting has been completed before paying the rent. Since the rent for one year is typically paid upfront, landlords of private places are notorious for ignoring any problems that crop up after the rent has been paid.

I should also mention the same can be for apartments, ie., no kitchen units, appliances or carpet. Although it is much easier to find a furnished apartment than a furnished villa if looking outside of a compound.

Good luck!
Ashley, on July 5, 2010 at 7:13 am said:

Hello Carol I hope you had a great 4th of July I have another question:

Majed(the guy I’m dating) is back in Saudi and I know he hasn’t told his family about me, yet, I wonder if when he comes back will he still be intrested in continueing our relationship. Our relationship is built on trust. I read one of your blog entries called “Why Saudi Men Are the Way the Are” and I here’s my question.

Besides keeping our relationship a secrect for the moment, how can two college students make a relationship work if the other is from Saudi? I’ve never dated a foreign man before and since you MARRIED one is their any tips or warnings you can give me?

Thank you so much,
Ashley
American Bedu, on July 5, 2010 at 7:48 am said:

@Ashley,

My answer is open communication between the two of you. First of all, you need to learn as much as you can about Saudi and its culture by reading all variety of sources — blogs, media, forums, talking to other Saudis, joining newsgroups.

Know where Majed is from and learn as much as you can about the area, his family and upbringing.

Use this info to further communicate and learn from him in candid discussions.

Good luck.
Nikkita, on July 5, 2010 at 12:48 pm said:

Dear Carol,

I’m a relatively new expat in Jeddah and I’ve been a follower of your blog since early this year and i love to read about you and your late prince (may he rest in peace). I also appreciates the informations i get from your other postings.

I know from your blog that Saudis who wants to marry foreigners must get permission from the government.

However, last night I just got to know that the permission is not needed anymore (at least that’s what the person was told my a Saudi consulate officer in Paris).

Just thought you might want to know this.

Have a good day and take care.

Nikkita
American Bedu, on July 5, 2010 at 6:42 pm said:

Dear Nikkita,

Welcome and thank you for your comments.

The marriage approval process is complex and full of exceptions. It continues to be in place as there still remain situations and Saudis in positions where the approval must be acquired.

Best Regards, Carol
Caressa, on July 10, 2010 at 8:37 pm said:

Salam and Hi,

Carol, I love this section I am new to your site and look forward to reading all of it. I’m sorry about the loss of your husband. My husband is Jordanian. I came across this site by accident but stayed because we are expecting Saudi family to come stay with us for an undetermined amount of time and that I am completely curious as well!

I had to post this regarding Ashley though. I can’t see any family who is Muslim, Saudi or not accepting a Atheist into their family. The marriage is not valid in any Muslims eyes as a Muslim cannot marry an Atheist. I’m not sure why this has not been brought up!? I really think it should be noted. I know she is not necessarily thinking of marriage but it’s usually in the back of someones mind when they are in love.
Caressa, on July 10, 2010 at 8:45 pm said:

ASA

Carol, I do have a question though. We are not discussing all the details due to poor phone connection issues until our family arrives. They are distant family to my husband, a young couple with a baby and an unexpected pregnancy. They are required to stay with an english speaking family and we are not considered bi-lingual as we mainly speak english in our home. Would you by chance know how long they are required to stay with us. I’m not trying to get rid of them I just am impatient to have expectations. I’m sure she will want to leave as soon as she can as our home is not large and will be crowded (I have 3 children myself). The main student is the wife however the husband has decided to study here as well. They will be coming for a English program at a near enough university before they start graduate school. They should be here in Approx. one month or less, just in time for Ramadan.
Thank you again for this ask column I love it. I would ask questions regarding their stay but unfortunately the only one whom can answer them would be the couple themselves. I have no idea how much culture shock they will be in upon arrival. They frequently visit Syria but this is much different. I will stop blabbing and post this. I hope you have an answer as to the time requirements but if you don’t that’s ok.

Wasalam
American Bedu, on July 11, 2010 at 7:33 am said:

Salam Alaikum Caressa,

Welcome to the blog. Thank you for your comments. In regards to your question, most students I know have a one or sometimes two year English program before beginning their continued studies.

Are they on an official scholarship program? If so, they should receive monies from the Saudi government which would cover housing, expenses, etc.

Best Regards, Carol
caresfl, on July 11, 2010 at 8:27 pm said:

Wa’Alaikum Salam,

Yes they are on a official program. Even the children will receive a stipend. I’m just wondering how long they will be required to live with us before they are able to maintain housing by themselves. It can be stressful when two families merge and even more so in small confines. Insha’Allah though it will all work out just fine and while I am a bit apprehensive I find myself also somewhat excited.

Wassalam, Caressa
sarah, on July 11, 2010 at 11:06 pm said:

@Caressa,
Please excuse me commenting here but I have Saudi friends who are studying abroad and I have 2 points to make – if they help

1) None of them have ever had to stay with family/relatives on arrival. They all set themselves up from day one in their own place.

2) Even an initial propgramme of one year gets extended normally and they can actually stay for years on end studying.

My advice would be to check out schools and accomodation yourself and go with them to see places as quickly as possible. They may be very nervous about finding this information and if you can present it ready for them they are more likely to move. If you leave things open problems will definately arrise. Perhaps a gentle helping hand would be best for all. I don’t understand why you think they are required to stay with you other than becuse of your own generosity. As far as I am aware it is not a requirement of getting a scholarship.
American Bedu, on July 12, 2010 at 7:59 am said:

@Caressa,

I second Sarah’s comment. Perhaps they are apprehensive about launching on their own because of not having the language. I’m sure once they also meet other Saudis they’ll be more eager to get settled in to their own home. In the interim, it is beautiful that you and your family are helping them and will give you an opportunity to get to know them better.
caresfl, on July 12, 2010 at 7:20 pm said:

I think then that is probably what it is. Nervous about the language and asking to stay with us. I will be the primary babysitter at least in the beginning so it’s ok they will be staying with us for awhile but I feel better knowing that at anytime it’s too much on either family they can go rent or something. The university they will be attending is a bit far (around 50 minutes drive) so they may want to make arrangements later for different care but if they don’t mind the drive there are plenty of places to rent near us as well. I’m not happy they weren’t forthcoming as I don’t like lying even little white lying but such is life. I’m happy that some of the pressure is relieved.
Now I am nervous though that I find her husband is educated in religion, not sure what he will do for a masters but I’m nervous because while I am muslim I have stopped covering due to my own personal anxieties and I wouldn’t say I’m the best example of a pious muslim. I hope though he is educated he is understanding and non-judgmental though I am expecting the opposite. Still though. I am excited for the changes upcoming. Alhamdulillah. And quite cautiously optimistic.
It’s also possible my husband is the one who fibbed though I don’t think so, I think I am pretty accustomed to arab hospitality. Not very good at delivering it but def. used to it.
American Bedu, on July 13, 2010 at 6:04 am said:

It is all too easy to have details lost in translation and language barriers. Now that you have mentioned the distance of the university, I think all the more reason they will want to get settled sooner nearer to the university.

So very many have degrees in religion. I do not mean this in a negative way but within Saudi, a major depends on grades, and as a result, religion is a pretty common major which does not require the higher grade average.

Hopefully it would never come to this, but they are the ones as guests in YOUR home so they should respect your generous hospitality and should not make any comments about how you live or dress!
caresfl, on July 14, 2010 at 6:55 pm said:

Well it’s the whole enjoin good and forbid evil thing. Many Muslims find it their duty to tell others how to behave. I was reading a scripture from the Qur’an last night that said exactly that so I’m kinda expecting it even in my own home. I’d rather expect it then be surprised. lol!
I’m sure it will all work out though. It will be a long drive but I think they may consider keeping it because of the newborn unless they can find someone personable to take care of it. I don’t mind the baby so much but a newborn I do. Not excited to take care of the newborn at all. I’m not sure what we will work out because they were honestly considering leaving the baby with the grandmother and we told them they would regret it and we refused to help if they didn’t bring the baby. We had agreed to basically foster the baby but now that there is another baby to consider I am not so inclined because I’d rather it be my own baby. We still want one more but because of my health I must lose weight first. Such a complicated situation isn’t it. lol. I must laugh, it helps to ease the stress of it.
American Bedu, on July 14, 2010 at 11:40 pm said:

Gosh, my dear…you may have your hands full there. I think before they arrive, you and your husband should sit and have a talk on what are the parameters. What can the two of you do and what the two of you can not or will not do. Having everything clear up front can prevent problems cropping up later on.

Hugs, Carol
caresfl, on July 14, 2010 at 11:50 pm said:

Yes I do think so but getting my husband to talk about it before they come is more then difficult. He really thinks I am over thinking everything. lol, if only it were really that funny though. He does fortunately know I do not really want to take care of the newborn but knowing and understanding and really getting the big picture are all very different things. And he really thinks since the baby was unplanned they won’t want to impose but I can’t help being against putting a newborn into daycare if it can be avoided so I am not sure what will happen. I am hoping the husband will take care of it but I think I am dreaming there. While my husband is a rare one who changes plenty of diapers I will never forget the look I got when I asked him to change the baby the first time in front of his arab family…Yikes! If looks could kill and I got this shocking rough “No” that was embarrassing to me. Now there was some culture shock. And my DH is Jordanian.
American Bedu, on July 15, 2010 at 5:50 am said:

It just occurred to me, is there any chance they may be coming with a housemaid? It’s not unusual for Saudi families to bring their housemaid when they travel.
caresfl, on July 15, 2010 at 5:01 pm said:

I do believe they don’t even have one due to finances, they are not well off like many other Saudis.
Kristine, on July 15, 2010 at 11:42 pm said:

caresfl,

Good luck to you! I don’t know what the exact requirements are, but if you are hosting students on scholarship, you may be entitled to a stipend yourself. It would be from the cultural mission. Check into it and see what’s required.
,
caresfl, on July 16, 2010 at 2:43 am said:

Thank you Kristine, I have no idea how to ask but I will mention to my husband. Thanks.
Anne, on July 19, 2010 at 5:08 am said:

Hello! I wanted to thank you for this website. There are so many negative connotations about KSA on the internet, it was nice to find something that has explained Saudi culture. I am hoping for some advice. I am a Canadian who has fallen head over heels for a Saudi. We have been together for just over 5 years. We want to marry but he would like me to move over there for the first few years of our marriage. I am not against moving there, but I am worried about the restrictions and change in lifestyle. How were you able to “cope” with not being able to go out by yourself? How much did your life change living in KSA? What if, god forbid, things do not work out for us; how hard would it be for me to leave with our children? I would really appreciate any advice!
American Bedu, on July 19, 2010 at 6:17 am said:

Dear Anne,

Welcome and I am glad that you have found American Bedu. Much of what you have asked I have written about extensively on the blog since 2006. If you do key word searches within the search bar of the blog, you will find specific posts.

My advice is communication, communication, communication. Make sure you and your Saudi talk thoroughly on expectations, desires, plans, intentions and FAMILY. You mentioned you’ve been together over five years. Do you know his family? Have you met them?

Get as much information from a variety of sources as you can about life and living in Saudi Arabia. Each area is different so no two experiences are the same.

I just want to underscore that extended family can play a large role in a couple’s day-to-day life.

Remember, once you are in KSA the laws of Saudi Arabia will apply which also pertains to any children. The children would be Saudi citizens and the man would have full custody if in the event a relationship did not work out.

All the best, Bedu
Hotel-Pension, on July 30, 2010 at 9:58 am said:

Dear Bedu « American Bedu inspires me, i just want to say thanks for the inspiration, Hotel-Pension
Richard, on August 2, 2010 at 11:56 pm said:

Hi Carol,

Can you help me and my wife understand the challenges that would face us in a move to Saudi (Riyadh). I am being considered for a 3 year project in Riaydh, and as such would be re-locating my wife and family with me.

Our concerns relate in particular to my wife and her freedom within Saudi. We are aware of some of the known restrictions, such as driving, but would like to hear about some of the less publicised cultural nuances that my wife and I should consider. We have 3 small children, 1 girl (6 years), and 2 boys (4 and 1).

Thank you

Richard
American Bedu, on August 3, 2010 at 2:45 am said:

Hi Richard,

I am imagining that with a three year project and bringing your family, the likelihood is that you and your family would live on a Western compound. At the compound there will be many other families and children providing a built in social network. Compounds also have a variety of activities to choose from. Most compounds also have daily busses which transport residents to popular shopping spots.

There is a large expat community in Riyadh which always has many activities and events going on.

Additionally, I hope that you and your family would have opportunities to get to know Saudi families too.

Outside of the compound there are zoos, museums, picnics in the desert and much more!

I encourage you to use the search bar on the right side of the blog to do key word searches for various posts I have written on adjustments and activities.

Best Regards, Carol
Keough & Co., on August 9, 2010 at 12:45 am said:

Hello,
First off, I just want to say how much I love your blog…it is truely amazing. I have been living in Saudi for the past three years and just moved back to Texas in January. I wish I had seen your blog when I was living in Sauid, because it is so useful and educational! My question is, how did you get rss feeds only for Saudi. I am trying to do the same on my website and am having hard luck. Once again, thanks for your blog, I have really enjoyed reading it and have used it as a model for my own. If you want to see mine, it is at http://www.keoughandcompany.com.
Thanks
Jessica
Hani, on August 21, 2010 at 4:38 pm said:

Dear Bedu am new here , and i dont know what is this all about?

But i wanna tell you this am a saudi dude 27 Y.O. and i dont know if i can hook up with any singles here in my country ! lol really it is eather u tie the knot or … well go figure.

so let me in please
American Bedu, on August 22, 2010 at 12:36 am said:

@Hani,

Sorry to disappoint you but American Bedu is not a matchmaking site! However it is a site which does encourage dialogue and communication.
bamagal08, on August 23, 2010 at 3:20 am said:

Hello Bedu,

My boyfriend Majed finally came back from Jeddah to get his masters but he’s been feeling really depressed. Said it actually started when he went back home and ever since it’s been getting worse. He doesn’t go to the same University as me anymore but he did stop by this weekend to see me. He’s keeps talking about killing himself and about life being too confusing for him I offered as much help as I can I even talked to a preacher for him but I’m worried he might do something to harm himself.

I wonder if how Saudi men usually deal with depression and is there anything else I can do?

Thank you,
Ashley
Xergio, on August 23, 2010 at 3:25 pm said:

Dear American Bedu,

I have a transferable iqama. But my new company is having trouble transferring it. They want me to go exit from my old company, and they will give me new visa.

But what I want is, to go on exit/re-entry only. Then process my new visa. Once the new visa is okey, that’s the time I want my re-entry from my old company be cancelled.

Is it possible, cancelling my re-entry while I’m in my country and re-enter Saudi with the new visa stamped on my passport?

Please enlighten.

Thanks
Santino, on August 23, 2010 at 5:16 pm said:

Dear Bedu,

I am in the Philippines right now with re-entry visa.
I am also processing a new visa for a new company.

Can I cancel my re-entry from my old company thru the Saudi Embassy in Manila ?

Please enlighten.
American Bedu, on August 23, 2010 at 10:13 pm said:

Dear Ashley,

It is actually unusual for a Saudi man to speak so candidly and even say he has suicidal (let alone depressing) thoughts. Suicide is haram in Islam so mentioning such thoughts should be taken seriously.

I venture that something, some kind of an event, has happened in his life. Perhaps an arranged marriage or told he has to marry?

You may try to persuade him to contact Dr. Truman whom I know and recommend highly:

http://americanbedu.com/2010/07/19/saudi-arabia-interview-with-dr-sean-truman-adaptation-as-an-expatriate/

Be careful with whom you reach out. I know the first instinct may be to go to a counselor at the University or even in the Saudi community, but as a student, he could lose his sponsorship and be made to return to the Kingdom.

You are welcome to also email me directly if you wish: admin@americanbedu.com

Best Regards, Carol
American Bedu, on August 23, 2010 at 10:57 pm said:

Xergio,

I wish I had a definitive answer for you but each case when it comes to sponsorship, iqamas and visas can be very different.

I realize you are wanting to hedge your bets by having a valid entry at all times but it probably won’t work that way.

Regards, Carol
Muhammad Bangura, on September 8, 2010 at 10:49 pm said:

Dear American Bedu,

Salamalaikum to you and in advance Eid Mubarak !

Lately I’ve been hearing about people that get jobs in places like Riyadh and Jeddah, even though they have visit visas – which I find hard to believe.

Please help me on this, I have a few questions and what I’d like to know is:-

1. Can a companpy hire me for a job if I’m on a visiting visa?

2. As for the visiting visa, can my family apply for an extension of stay, how long can that be? Or is it mandatory for me to have a sponsor for that?

3. Even if I do get an extension of stay, is there a limit as to how many times I can apply for that?

4. And is it possible for me to head to Saudi Arabia with a visit visa, find a company that’s hiring people and convert the visit visa to a work visa there?

Thank you

Muhammad Bangura
American Bedu, on September 9, 2010 at 5:29 am said:

Dear Muhammad,

Salam Alaikum and Eid Mubarak to you too!

I’m not saying that individuals cannot come in on a visit visa and obtain a job but it is not the typical way. Most individuals come in from having been recruited by an outside (the Kingdom) agency. However some individuals may have a visa where they come in to the Kingdom and during that time, are able to be interviewed by a prospective employer. Usually an individual needs to leave the Kingdom in order to return on a work visa which designates the appropriate sponsor.
Morpheus, on September 26, 2010 at 3:45 pm said:

got this link from susie’s blog
how are you doing now?
did you get your cats back?
very sad to hear about what you had and have to go through
u must really miss abdullah
hope he is resting in peace

wish you the best
American Bedu, on September 27, 2010 at 2:03 am said:

@Morpheus,

Welcome to American Bedu. Thank you for your very kind words.

Best Regards, Carol
Sergs, on September 28, 2010 at 6:26 am said:

Dear Bedu,

I am an expat currently working as Accountant.
My iqama profession is General Electrician.
Can I change my iqama profession to Accountant(I have Accounting Degree certificate with attestation from Philippine government).

If I can change my profession, is it possible that I can take my family here? (I heard that Accountant profession is restricted to Saudis due to Saudization).

Thanks and more power
American Bedu, on September 29, 2010 at 4:57 am said:

@Sergs,

Welcome to American Bedu. I do not have a direct answer to your question. I suggest that the best thing to do is to chat with your employer on this issue. Good luck.

Best Regards, Carol
confused, on October 12, 2010 at 4:14 am said:

Dear Carol,

I have been with my Saudi for almost 5 years and we got engaged this past summer. We had planned to get married in two months from now, and then break the news to our families after we did everything. The only problem is that his family found out two days ago, and are flying out to bring him back. They even pulled him out of school. He told me to wait and that he’d send for me once he’s had time to settle the matter with his family…but I find all of this too dreadful to believe. I’m heart broken and shocked. We talked about eloping before he goes, but I don’t want his father to have a heart attack over finding that out too. I find all of this completely unfair and unforgiving. What should I do? I even offered to talk to them with him, but he’s worried they’ll be hateful with me and make me leave him for good. He’s very insistant that we will marry, and has even spoken to my family about what is going on…but from what I hear about other girls and their Saudis…if the family hates you…you’re done.

It’s so unfair. I can’t stop crying.
American Bedu, on October 12, 2010 at 7:05 am said:

Dear Confused,

I am very sorry for your heartbreak. However, given the reaction of his family, it is best that they intervened prior to the marriage rather than when you both had planned to tell them after the fact. He must have had an indication his family would react harshly if you were planning marriage without informing family until after the fact. You are much better to move on after shedding your grief. These are the type of circumstances where he will likely be married soon to a cousin or the daughter of a close family acquaintance.

Furthermore, he simply cannot “send for you” after he’s explained to his family. You require a sponsor in order to come to Saudi Arabia. He could not be your sponsor unless you were married AND had the approval/recognition of your marriage from the Saudi government. Given that students are prohibited from marriage to foreigners, there are multiple odds against the two of you.

I’d rather be forthright with the facts to you rather than sugarcoat or give false hopes.

Sincerely, Carol
confused, on October 16, 2010 at 4:39 am said:

Dear Carol,

You’re right, he can’t just send for me, I completely agree with that. Since his departure was a shock, you’re right, he didn’t plan anything. They are going to put him in Canada to finish his schooling…I don’t know if they will try to marry him off or not. He’s started the paperwork…but again…after he and I researched it…it seems pretty bleak. He’s hopeful, which is a way more then I am…and since he has only a year to finish school…he’s hoping the paperwork will be done by then… But yeah… I just told him to work on his schooling and to be happy. If it’s meant to be it’ll work out, if not, then he’ll always be my best friend. I’m just worried, cause he’s not taking the seperation well at all…and I feel completely hopeless in calming him down. Any suggestions?
American Bedu, on October 17, 2010 at 8:34 pm said:

Dear Confused,

Perhaps if you tell him in a confident voice that you have put this situation into God’s hands that will give him reassurance and in a way that will strike a chord with his upbringing.

I sincerely wish you all the best and please let me know how things do turn out. Being a Saudi student outside of the Kingdom and/or part of an extended family with strong influence are two of the most common factors which break up bicultural relationships between a Saudi and foreigner.
Sabah, on November 2, 2010 at 1:12 pm said:

Hi,
I’m trying to relactate my 3 month old. I need professional help in Riyadh. I have no idea where to find it. Any help would be appreciated.
Muhammad Bangura, on November 11, 2010 at 8:30 am said:

Salam to you again Thanks for the last reply, that helped as well and now it seems more likely KSA’s where i’ll be heading to from here.

I understand that it’s very important to have a good kafeel (which is hard to find, if luck ins’t in your way) But I also wanted to know :-

1. What’s the difference getting a transferable/non-transferable iqama, as far as having a kafeel is concerned?

2. Let’s say i have a 2 year contract and a month away, if I’d want to leave the country to work for another company, is it allowed, as long as I’ve finished the contract?

Many thanks,
Muhammad B.
American Bedu, on November 15, 2010 at 12:38 am said:

Salam Alaikum Muhammad,

I’m not sure if I fully understand your first question…but in essence the distinction between a transferable and non-transferable iqama is that in many cases an expat can have his/her iqama transferred to another employer and may not have to depart the Kingdom to do so. In the case of a non-transferable iqama, the expat must depart the Kingdom and then have a new iqama after returning back to the Kingdom under the new employer pending no conflicts.

Your second question would depend entirely on the employer. If a contract had been fulfilled and there were no outstanding obligations on the part of the employee, I imagine an employer may be agreeable.
Caressa, on November 20, 2010 at 7:26 am said:

Salams Carol, My acupuncturist wants the FYI- IS Facebook allowed in KSA? I know funny, but I told him I knew someone who could tell me. Thanks.

BTW- Not sure if you remember me, we were hosting the relative from Saudi. Well, that went really badly…I’m still in shock over the lack of Adab from the couple and he even had an Islamic education…and I worry about them because they have burned bridges with everyone (including us) and don’t seem to be succeeding here. I just ran into them at the mosque tonight. I haven’t seen nor heard from them since Ramadan ended. Yep, and they are family…yikes.

Hope you enjoyed Eid!

Wassalam, Caressa
American Bedu, on November 20, 2010 at 8:00 am said:

hi Caressa,

I sure do remember you and sorry to hear about the bad experience encountered.

In regards to FB I’ve not experienced any problems receiving messages or writing back and forth on each other’s walls. Now I am not in Saudi as I write this but like I mentioned, I’m receiving responses to/from Saudi.
Hamad, on November 24, 2010 at 1:47 pm said:

Dear Bedu,

I really couldn’t understand some westerns who live in Saudi Arabia and complain about not begin able to integrate into the Saudi society! and accusing the Saudi culture of begin closed !!

let look closely into the issue:

Those people who complain about this issue, they live in western style complex and hang out with westerns or westernized Arabs !
Also, they do not bother to learn Arabic ( I mean talking serious Arabic classes before coming to the country or after arriving) .

Big question: HOW IN EARTH could you integrate into a society without knowing its language and dare to accuse this culture of begin closed !! I mean I live in Canada since 2008 and I didn’t come here without knowing English , because I know I couldn’t make any friends or discover the Canadian culture with only speaking Arabic!!

Therefore, any western in Saudi Arabia ( weather in Riyadh , Khobar or Jeddah or other city ) . must leatn Arabic if they want to discover the culture and integrate into the society.

Cheers,

Hamad
Hamad, on November 24, 2010 at 2:12 pm said:

Oh I forgot a point ! Westerners ( and westernized Arabs ) should also stop thinking that western culture is superior to others , so they can value and understand other cultures!
American Bedu, on November 24, 2010 at 2:28 pm said:

Dear Hamad,

Thanks for sharing your views. I do not believe that any individual should come across to another one as superior whether because of nationality or culture. We are all creatures of God so who are we to judge?

However in regards to your point, it certainly does help for an expatriate in Saudi Arabia to know Arabic in order to better integrate. You make a valid point about language since the majority of “typical” Saudis probably do not speak English. Although if I am correct, English is being introduced at many Saudi schools which previously did not offer English classes.

I do think though that the openness of “Canada, USA and Europe for example do make it easier for a Saudi to integrate and get to know individuals as compared to Saudi Arabia. Don’t you think as a Saudi that the Saudi culture is more closed and private than the West? I think a Saudi will always extend hospitality and kindness but that is not the same as really getting to know someone.
Aafke-Art, on November 24, 2010 at 2:28 pm said:

Hamad, I don’t agree.
I am Dutch and I know Dutch is a difficult language for foreigners to learn, although not as difficult as Arabic. So we Dutch learn other languages to communicate with people from other countries.
If you come to the Netherlands you will be able to interact with the Dutch if you speak one of the modern most used international languages.

I myself speak English, French, German and Spanish, take your pick.
We learn languages because we want to interact with people from different places, and we are not so arrogant as to expect everybody who visits, or lives here for a few years as an expat to learn the language.
Expats here will have no problems interacting with the locals population.
Expats will find that the Dutch are very open and friendly towards strangers, and it is easy to make contact. We have lots of cafés, cultural venues, parties, museums, restaurants, etc. Actually you could already make friends right on the street on in a park or in the gym, or at an exhibition, whatever.

Only if you want to live here forever, become a Dutch citizen and make use of our social system, then it is different, you will be expected to learn the language but nobody would think that strange. And it will be easy if you live here anyway. And I cannot image that if somebody wants to become a citizen of a country and spend the rest of their lives there, make it their home, that they would not want to learn the language very much.
Hamad, on November 24, 2010 at 3:02 pm said:

Dear Bedu,

In fact, you can fully integrate into the Saudi society if you speck the language and show respect to local costumes weather you value it or nor. Also, you should not look at things in Saudi Arabia ( or another country for this matter) for your western prescriptive and judge them based on your initial ideas and views. and you should notice the difference in people’s way to interact in different Saudi cities ( like the difference between people in busy Toronto and chillin Halifax or between Huston and San Fransisco ! )
I agree that it is easier – sometimes- to integrate in Canada as a Saudi but I have been discriminated against many times , called names and singled out in different occasions. However, this doesn’t give me the right to say Canadians are judgmental! or Indian-Canadians are racist or White-Canadians are ignorant ! you don’t generalize !

Saudi Arabia is in size of western Europe! there are similarities between its people yet there are noticeable differences. And if westerners in Saudi Arabia try the minimum to learn the language, understand people’s lifestyles ( and long-established traditions ) and get out of their fancy complex , then – I assure you- will have better chances to get integrated with the locals.

Salam ,

Hamad
Hamad, on November 24, 2010 at 3:16 pm said:

Aafke-Art,

Expats in the Netherlands do not live in closed in complex ,I believe . So yeah they will have better chances to know the Dutch society. Expats in Saudi can interact with the English-specking Saudis ( and they are a lot of them) but how can they get to know them when these Expats live in closed communities and do not get out much ( because they don’t feel like that the local costumes are “uncivilized” and prefer to stay in complexes and save the effort of knowing the city ( whatever Saudi city ) they live in . So my friend, the comparison is irrelevant.

” Proost” my friend
Hamad, on November 24, 2010 at 6:56 pm said:

Dear Bedu,

I always forget to include my last point!

Here in the west ( I have been to the Canada and the U.S , and still in Canada studying ) If you don’t show interest in people’s activities , I would not get to know anybody personally ! I don’t drink and don’t appreciate the way people in my age party over here. So, do I stay at my place with my Arab friends and start complaining about how clos Americans or Canadians are ?? No because I understand cultural differences, I try really hard to understand what people here like to talk about and what they watch in TV, what sports they watch. So I will have something to talk about !

On the other hand, westerners in Saudi Arabia want to integrate without speaking the language, without getting into the local interests or at least listen to their music and watch their TV ! It seems to me you folks , good number of westerners bloggers in Saudi and the totally westernized Saudis, want the Saudi society to integrate into the western communities and adopt western values, and then you can describe Saudis as tolerant ! !!

Oh god knows I have a lot to say about this issue but have no much time at this time of the year. later in Decmber I will write something about this issue and send it you.

Take care,
MoQ, on November 25, 2010 at 1:56 am said:

@Hamad,

Saudi Arabia has hundreds of thousands of Arabic speaking workers. Not only are they fluent in Arabic, but they also live outside of compounds. Saudi’s still treat them as second class citizens and never accept them as part of society. Until you figure out that problem, your comment is fatuous. .
Hamad, on November 25, 2010 at 12:22 pm said:

Q MoQ

Well this is just a statement you make , maybe you know 10 or 5 Arabs who say that but you don’t have a study about all of them. I can say the same thing about Muslims in American Schools ( which I experienced) , ! if a a non-Saudi Arab respects the local costumes , try the minimum to fit in, they will be part of the society. ( like many of my Father’s neighbors )

for your note: these non- Saudi Arabs are not citizens in the first place , so how come they are treated like a second class citizens if they are not citizens!
Hamad, on November 25, 2010 at 12:48 pm said:

@ MoQ

Also if you try to read my comments carefully, I said the problem is not trying to fit in ( Because when we go the study or work in western countries, we are asked to try our best to fit in , watch their sports listen to their music , ect ) so this apply to the non-Saudi Arabs 2. They want to bring Beirut or Cairo lifestyle with them to Jeddah or Khobar. No , you customized your lifestyle to the place your come to , 7bebi !
Hamad, on November 25, 2010 at 2:23 pm said:

http://blueabaya.blogspot.com/2010/11/expats-in-saudi-arabia-and-learning.html

a western in Saudi agrees with me and explain my points even better
MoQ, on November 25, 2010 at 5:56 pm said:

@Hamad,

I really do not know what you are trying to accomplish with your argument. So I am going to explain from my understanding:

1) Saudi is a very prejudice country. This is unfortunate. Look around you when you go back and see how foreigners are treated. These are facts.
2) When Saudi’s come to a place like the US. They are allowed to live their life the way they want. They choose to integrate or not. They also can choose to build mosques, to live a complete devout life, etc.
3). When Westerners come to Saudi, they are forbidden from living their life as they choose to. Hence, for Saudi to attract them they close them up behind compound walls, so they can live the life they are accustomed to. This is unique to Saudi,. When westerners go to other countries they do not live in segregated compounds as the host country allow them freedoms.
4) Westerners also have safety concerns in Saudi. Hence they opt to live in compounds.

The issue is Saudi Arabia is not accepting of others.

Compare that with the freedoms you are offered in your host country. These freedoms are the reason, you are able to integrate by your choice.
Sandy, on November 25, 2010 at 7:54 pm said:

As a western woman living in Saudi, Saudi culture gives me no respect and Saudi law give me no rights. So, of course I do what I can to keep my lifestyle the way I am comfortable. The same way you refuse to drink even though you are in the west.

I have many Saudi friends and I speak some Arabic. I am part of a Saudi family.

I think you are making a false comparison. There is a difference between “modernization” and “westernization”. I am all for “modernization” anywhere I go- especially as modern living is better in terms of human rights. Many “western” Saudi’s are simply educated and modern. So yes, I prefer to hang out with those rather than those that think I should stay home unless I cover everything but one eye- and that it is better for me to pray in a closet. NO THANK YOU.
Lynn, on November 25, 2010 at 8:09 pm said:

Hamad, who exactly asked you to try to fit in when you were here? Did they stop you at the border and give you a list of rules of conformity? Clearly you have never been to Dearborn, Michigan!!

When you were here were you an American citizen? If not do you think that the human rights afforded you were less than any full citizen’s? If so, please let me know in what way?
Hamad, on November 25, 2010 at 8:20 pm said:

@ sandy

you are , me dear, a clear example of people who think western culture is superior to others by saying ” to be modernized Saudis( or whoever) showed follow western guidelines !

I don;t know where you live in Saudi Arabia ( I assume Riyadh ) but other cities , westerns go to public places , malls waterfronts and private beaches and have a normal life with respect to the local costumes ( no alcohol ect ect )

you show me that you don;t know better by saying that a typical Saudi require from his wife or daughters to cover everything. You just make a stereotypical judgment , and you are my dear very prejudice in this matter. I grew up in very traditional family , yet many women in my family don’t cover their faces but they cover their hair out of respect to their religion and culture ( they do same abroad ). Some religious fanatic say what you accused the Saudi Culture of but from my whole life in Saudi before I relocate to Canada to study , I have seen very few who believe that women should be behind closed doors! ( I am form Alkhobar city )

Again if you think western culture is superior to others , and don;t want to see the different LOCAL cultures withing Saudi Arabia , and don;t want to respect them, then you you are a supremacist person.

NOTE: yes I don;t drink because its against me belief and not part of my culture but I in my mid 20s and I have done way more things to understand and integrate ( as I can ) into the Canadian society which I live in , than most of westerners who live in the GCC countries who come with their colonial mentality , who think that the world should live their way but with a little of cute local traditions !
Hamad, on November 25, 2010 at 8:35 pm said:

@
Lynn

In fact I live in Canada , and I started my comments when some American gentleman here in Halifax told me that he had difficulties to fit into the local community when he was in Saudi Arabia. When I asked him did learn Arabic ? did you try to follow local matters like football or try to enter private beaches to mix with people over there ? he said no , he stayed in the complex , go to work and complain about no getting to know the culture! of course He would not , in Saudi Arabia or other High-context cultures , people do not start a random conversation in the street , but when you know them and enter their houses or places where they gather , you start to know them better and have a valuable experience and most likely end up having a great friend.

when you come to a country and to get the most of it out of this place , you should do a lot and try hard , so you have something out of experience. I could complain that Canadians are not easy to get a long with if you spoke with an accent! There are some of them who are like this, but I keep talking to people and try to get to know them better till I met some great people who understand that cross-culture relationships are important .

I am starting to think that westerns who live in Riyadh have serious problems and little respect for the local culture not like most westerners I have met in my hometown of Alkhobar
Hamad, on November 25, 2010 at 8:57 pm said:

yeah and the most important point I try to get it across to you my dear westerners is you must try to learn Arabic so you can get your own prescriptive about Saudi Arabia ( or let say the city you live in ) , when you learn Arabic you get your own prescriptive not your Lebanese or Jordanian ( who live around u in the complex ) friend’s prescriptive about Saudi Arabia !
Aafke-Art, on November 25, 2010 at 9:19 pm said:

Hamad, @ Sandy’s comment: *” to be modernized Saudis( or whoever) showed follow western guidelines ! *
Sandy did not say that at all, read her comment again.
You did not get my comment either, What I meant with my comment is that if you live in a country with a difficult language, which is unimportant (however you might love it yourself) in the rest of the world, you cannot expect or demand that visitors and expats learn your language.
That is very unreasonable.
I have learned several languages, and they are hard work, and I learned them in school when I had lots of time. An expat comes to work (presumably) and will have no time to learn a difficult language.

You have to learn English because you choose to make use of an ENglish university where nobody speaks your obscure language.

People from countries like ours with unimportant and difficult languages, will have to learn the more important universally spoken languages to get around.

Another problem is that in America, and in my country, people are free to meet and socialize. Which is not the case in your country.
You come here and we can go to a café , and have tea, or we could go to an artshow, or anything. If we did that in KSA we would be arrested and probably lashed. And I would be thrown out of the country.

Also, I can get into my car and drive to see friends and go to museums or shopping.
That would be impossible in Saudi Arabia as I don’t have a willy.

Anyway Sandy and Moq said all the rest of it. Why don’t you give them a good read? because I see from your comments that you did not really understand what they wrote.
Hamad, on November 25, 2010 at 9:28 pm said:

Aafke-Art,

Do live in Saudi Arabia, and if you do which city ? because I find what u’v said misleading and not true as I want to to appear ( groups of westerner can go out with a group of Saudis as long as they act respectfully and there are at least a married couple among the 2 groups). I guided number of my uncle’s western ( males and females ) employees around the city of Khobar , to malls and traditional sites in Dammam and also small local museum )
Aafke-Art, on November 25, 2010 at 10:19 pm said:

But you cannot meet people in ksa for a start,
There are a lot of saudis who speak english, so one could put up a conversation with a lot of saudis,
But you can’t get to meet them unless with so many conditions.
And what about the first ”hello”, where and how is that going to happen? If your aren’t colleagues or employees.

What would happen if I was having a nice walk and wanted to strike up a conversation with a saudi bloke who was walking his German Shepard?
(I like German Shepards.)
You know what would happen.

So don’t make as if it is easy to stroll around the streets or public places and get to know the local people.
Hamad, on November 25, 2010 at 10:23 pm said:

@ Aafke-Art

do u live in Saudi Arabia or have lived in Saudi ? it would really make it easier to cross my point . and which city ?
Aafke-Art, on November 25, 2010 at 10:31 pm said:

Actually, there are westerners who think that Saudi is a lot more fun….
Hamad, on November 25, 2010 at 10:41 pm said:

@ Aafke-Art

This is a Riyadh thing anyway.
I really would like to know if you have ever lived in Saudi Arabia and which city ?

so I clarify this concern of yours ” So don’t make as if it is easy to stroll around the streets or public places and get to know the local people. ”

because even my 16 years old cousin knows , people in different cultures , interact differentially ! WOW , did you know that ?

so when you go to China , you don;t start conversation with strangers, not like in Canada for example !

but please answer my question , so I can see where are coming from !
Aafke-Art, on November 25, 2010 at 10:58 pm said:

The issue is that Saudi Arabia is not friendly to strangers. I don’t have to go to Saudi Arabia to understand that. You are already putting conditions on how strangers are to interact in your country. That’s not very friendly, and it restricts interaction rather than helping it along.
Hamad, on November 26, 2010 at 12:01 am said:

it a cultural thing babe ! and you just make my point about judgmental westerners. You never been to the country and still try to give detailed evidences about the people culture . who would do this except an arrogant self-centered and ignorant person ! I don’t make strong statements about Japanese culture because I have never been there. It is the colonial mentality some white Europeans ( and Americans ) .
Malcolm X had spoken about people like yourself 40 years ago

” The whites didn’t integrate it; they infiltrated it. Whites joined it; they engulfed it; they became so much a part of it, it lost its original flavor “
Sandy, on November 26, 2010 at 3:06 am said:

Well, since Hamad didn’t really read what I wrote, I”ve nothing to say there. But with regard to what Aafke said, she didn’t give any detailed anything.

I will say it is much easier for a western man to interact. Usually he is working and he will be working with people from many nationalities including Saudis. Much harder for the western woman to mix in and meet Saudi women. But very rarely would a Saudi man invite a Western man home to meet his family. And a western man will be reluctant to socialize if he is married and his wife is sitting home on her own.
Sandy, on November 26, 2010 at 3:10 am said:

Speaking of racism, why the focus on westerners? Many Pakistani, Filipino, Indian and Indonesians work in the kingdom and learn to speak Arabic. How much do the Saudi’s want to socialize with them????
Aafke-Art, on November 26, 2010 at 3:50 am said:

And a number of them do speak Arabic. So they should find it easy to integrate…
Hamad, on November 26, 2010 at 4:04 am said:

@ Afake-Art

you clearly don’t know what you talking about I prefer discussing with people with real experience.

@ Sandy

here we go again with generalizations about Saudis and their attitude! I believe some of you guys should go some cross-cultural understanding classes. Every type of people have different way of interacting , when you figure it out in a country you can have a good relations ( also show respect and speck saudi Arabic 2 )

I don’t have any more to say about this issue. and If somebody want really to know people , she or he can do some work and get to know the people ( like one of my Saudi friends in Japan ! ) but if you want locals to act and talk like you so you can have relations within the community

cheers ( salam )
MoQ, on November 26, 2010 at 4:58 am said:

@Hamad,

I really think you are the person with no real experience. Not because you have not been to Saudi, it is because you are Saudi and because you do not listen to what foreigners are telling you.

You need to spend some time and ask real people that have been in Saudi about how they feel and I mean seriously feel about how Saudis treat them. I have done that and it is close to unanimous, almost all of them feel Saudi’s were prejudice against them and they did not feel integrated.

By the way this is from many nationalities not just Westerners.

Sandy is a person who lived in Saudi for over 20 years and she is telling you her experience. So what you do is NOT listen, you argue with her about how she feels and about her own experience.

Grow up Kid, listen when people are providing you information, drop the arrogance, and may be you will learn a few things. Hopefully in a few years, you go back to Saudi and help change things.
Hamad, on November 26, 2010 at 5:16 am said:

The problem that she says its THE Saudis how do that and do this, She generalized and you do so ! while you may have met less than 50 Saudis and asked 30 of your friend our of millions in the country. You are suppose to make clear and specific statement , talk about your experience with this number of Saudi in this city. NOT ALL Saudis, every place has its good and bad things so do not generalize
you should know better man !
Hamad, on November 26, 2010 at 5:37 am said:

Yeah and if somebody spend 20 years in a country without getting along with its people , this person has some serious problems and perhaps personality disorder !
MoQ, on November 26, 2010 at 6:14 am said:

@Hamad,

No one said all Saudis that is the conclusion you made in your own head. It is called a Starwman argument. Add a logic course to your college list, you will do yourself a great favor, by learning about fallacious arguments. I am not being sarcastic here, I do think every student should take a minimum of one logic course. Especially if you come from a place like Saudi where the education system does not allow topics like philosophy to be taught.

What we are telling you is not all Saudis are unfriendly to foreigners. There are very kind and generous Saudi’s, you may be one of them. We are telling you in genera lthe country and its people do not provide an environment where foreigners feel they are treated fairly nor do they feel accepted. Saudis in general have many prejudices about people from different backgrounds. Whether it is religious background (None Muslims cannot practice publicly), Nationality (example Asians are considered lowest class), Behavior (example Westerners are considered immoral and their women are loose since they do not adhere to Islamic dress traditions), etc.

Foreigners in the country go to Saudi to work for the most part. Most of them know that Saudi is not a great place to live, because of all the restrictions and unfriendly environment. They would not be there except for the better Salaries they will receive in comparison from their original country. For Westerners, who are at the top of the pay scale, compounds are created to allow them to have a similar life style to what they are accustomed to at home. They stay as much inside the compounds to avoid the issues of the real Saudi. People from other nationalities, who cannot be so demanding and get the accommodations they desire, live outside of compounds and deal with the daily prejudices and indignity to earn a living.

The bad part about all of this, is Saudis go about their day not realizing how much of their behavior is prejudice. I wish it was different Hamad, but it is the sad truth. You have a choice as a young Saudi to ignore my comment as just another one of those generalization. Or the next time you go to Saudi, you can observe how foreigners are treated and see if what I am saying is valid. When I am talking foreigners, I mean every one, starting with Indonesian maids, Bengali street sweeper, Syrian teacher, Egyptian Carpenter, etc. See how they are treated and put yourself in their shoes and determine if you like to be treated that way.

Good Luck
Hamad, on November 26, 2010 at 6:40 am said:

Well I will take your advise seriously and look at these kind of courses to better my self. Thank you

I understand that there is some unfair treatment and i’m against it , since my local culture teaches me to be fair to all people. But people live in Riyadh and then generalize about Saudi. Also, Saudis are being treated in bad way in their own country by good number of foreigner ( they disrespect the local costumes, want to get ( steal money ) by any means ! , look down at our women and on top of that make fun about our history and music ! ) I have been discriminated against in my own country by foreigner, some of them ask me not to wear my traditional clothes if I want to come their places !! Have you ever look at from this point. When I try to book a ticket and go to a foreigner travel agent he trys to sell me the most expensive package just because I’m Saudi ! how do you think I feel about his likes ? I experienced this everyday back-home and yet I try not to say all of this racist travel agent nationality are like him , or my foreigner so-called friend who asked me in my country to not wear my tradition clothes because he lives in a compound and he didn’t want people to think that you are a Local !! I would like to say that most Lebanese are like him , hate Saudis and lobby against them everywhere in the country!

I think there is some unfair treatment but its not done only by Saudis !
MoQ, on November 26, 2010 at 7:48 am said:

@Hamad,

Please contemplate some of the questions below:

- Why are compounds necessary in the first place in Saudi? Why is it that countries like UAE do not have them?
- Regarding the requirement of dressing in Western clothes, have you thought that may be compounds are like private clubs with their own rules and that the owners are Saudi themselves? Is the prejudice against you in this case, the result of a Saudi business man imposing his own rules?
- You talked about foreigners looking down on Saudi women, Aren’t you in effect doing the same with women here by addressing them with derogatory terms like babes?
- Regarding Lebanese hating Saudis and working against them, wouldn’t that fall under your definition of generalization, which you argued about against others?
- Regarding prejudices, do you really think comparing someone trying to over charge you (a business transaction/negotiation) is equivalent to the racial class system that is prevalent in Saudi?

Enjoy.
American Bedu, on November 26, 2010 at 8:25 am said:

On the topic of not being able to wear traditional dress at a western compound is a topic that was hard for my late Saudi husband to swallow too. It is difficult from the Saudi perspective to be expected to change his style of dress in order to access a western compound which is located within his own country. Yet at the same time, each and every compound is in fact owned by a Saudi!
Aafke-Art, on November 26, 2010 at 1:21 pm said:

Hamad, I am a grown, intelligent, independent woman.
I am not a ”babe”.
No man except my dream rabbit is allowed to call me ”babe”. If you were to call me ”babe” to my face you would be on the receiving end of a straight left to the jaw.
Just to make that clear.

It is very nice of you to take your father’s employees around and show them interesting places. But while you were showing them these places, did they have the chance to make contact with the local people in these places? Could a man step up to a Saudi woman and introduce himself and start a conversation?
Did you introduce your guests to other Saudi citizens?
They could talk to you but I imagine not to anybody else.

Would a Saudi come forward and start talking to them? That has happened a lot to me in foreign countries, and in the Netherlands by visiting foreigners. But I know such open and spontaneous contact is just not possible in Saudi Arabia. Or can you prove different?
Can a foreign woman go to a museum, (driving her car to get there) start talking about an exhibit with a local man or woman and then go to the museum café gave a cup of tea and conversation?
Do you think Saudi men or women who speak English are generally given to walk up to foreign women and men and start talking to them?

Hamad, I think you would be wise to take that logic course. Everybody should take a logic course. And critical thinking, if that is given in America.
I hope you will enjoy your time in another country, I enjoyed it immensely, and you should take every opportunity to learn when you have the chance.

I don’t like rules that Saudis who visit western (Saudi owned) compound are not allowed to wear their traditional dress. I think it’s unreasonable.
I can imagine Saudis feeling hurt by such a stupid rule. If western expats can’t even bear to look upon a Saudi visitor to their compound in traditional dress they shouldn’t have come.

Aren’t there a few mixed compounds where Saudi families live too?

Don’t call me babe…
Sandy, on November 26, 2010 at 2:23 pm said:

I think this is a pretty pointless conversation but to clarify: I don’t live in a compound, I generally get along with Saudi’s, I speak some of the language and I don’t live in Riyadh.

And yes it is true that the compounds are prejudice against Saudis. It is also true that Saudi’s used to visit compounds and sit by the swimming pools gawking at western women in bathing suits. I do not think banning Saudi’s is the answer. I think the behavior should be punished not the nationality.

There are many kinds of people in Saudi- as with everywhere else. But the system is not just to most of them. Not to many foreign workers-especially non-western, not to women- especially Saudi women. Any culture that LEGALLY restricts half it’s population because they are women is wrong. It is not about “understanding” it. I can understand why they do it but it is still wrong. I could say YOU don’t understand because you are not a woman.

I don’t feel it is necessary for me to like everything in a culture. Or that not liking something means I am predudiced. There is plenty of western music I don’t like as well as Arabic. And some of both that I do. Just like I enjoy some, but not all, of the food in both places and some, but not all, of the people.
Sandy, on November 26, 2010 at 2:26 pm said:

@Hamad,
If you led a group of employees on a tour -including women, then you yourself are not leading a “pure” Saudi life. You, yourself have been “westernized” and are not practicing gender segregation properly.

But it is true not all Saudi’s practice full segregation And those that don’t are looked down on as “corrupted” by those that practice “full” Saudi culture.
Hamad, on November 26, 2010 at 3:08 pm said:

@ Aafke-Art

you clearly don’t know why you talking about. You haven’t lived there and your a western supremacist who doesn’t understand cultural differences. You keep imaging in your little small world you live in

@ MoQ

- Why are compounds necessary in the first place in Saudi? Why is it that countries like UAE do not have them?

The U.A.E is country were locals are minority ! foreigner are too much the country lost its original flavor. So westerners and foreigners are the majority and they the scene is not Emirati ( if you happen to know Arabic you will listen to 100s of shows about this issue by U.A>e locals ) . Second compounds are great in my city ( Khobar ) and because westerners don’t to follow the Saudi way of life ( the general social rules that came from within our society ). Westerners go the Africa and they yet follow local costumes there ( like not wearing shorts for women in Tanzania for example ! ) but if they want to live in complete western lifestyle we have to get them these complexes so they don’t show to locals how they come to Arabia and just do things , locals and religious people will see as disrespectful acts

- Regarding the requirement of dressing in Western clothes, have you thought that may be compounds are like private clubs with their own rules and that the owners are Saudi themselves? Is the prejudice against you in this case, the result of a Saudi business man imposing his own rules?

In my city ( again one that has the most westerns in Saudi ) , we have the largest complex of Aramco , Saudis live there , locals dress in their traditional clothes and in othercompounds where Saudis don’t lice , yet when they enter they can wear there traditional clothes. I was asked by a person who live there not to embarrass him in front of his other western -Arab friends because we they see the 6 feet young Saudi man in his traditional clothes , they think it’s not civilized and not modern ! I have been to different compounds in my city wearing traditional clothes , but I was discriminated against in this particular one by a foreigner. Does that give met he right to say most foreigners in Saudi are racist ?

- You talked about foreigners looking down on Saudi women, Aren’t you in effect doing the same with women here by addressing them with derogatory terms like babes?

Babe: ( adjective used to describe a good looking girl, sometimes describes guys )
like saying Habibi in Arabic , nothing more

and addressed her by this term because she sounded like she knows nothing in reality about the country ( never been there and still make strong statements like she lived there for 50 years ! ! ) so I was trying to be funny . ( because she was too way offensive towards my country and then get upset from ” babe” ?

- Regarding Lebanese hating Saudis and working against them, wouldn’t that fall under your definition of generalization, which you argued about against others?

I was begin sarcastic! because it seems its OK to generalize about Saudis but not about foreigners ! I can use all if the sweeten world you use , you said ” Saudis in general have many prejudices” , I can say that Foreigners ” in general ” are racist , disrespectful , ungrateful , greedy and haters. but there are ” some” nice foreigners but in general it is a ” fact” !

I can say it but I don’t because I know better than, for example , 55 years old American who live in a country ( in a city in this country ) for 22 years then at the end still have tons of stereotypes and generalizations!

- Regarding prejudices, do you really think comparing someone trying to over charge you (a business transaction/negotiation) is equivalent to the racial class system that is prevalent in Saudi?

what racial class system ? do you know what I have to go over when I travel just because I am Saudi in other Arab countries or with some Arabs in north America ? Apart from this do you know what kind of treatment a Saudi receive in a workplace? no because foreigners are angles , right ?! If there is a racial system in Saudi Arabia, then it is targeted against locals in the workplace and in international schools etc etc where foreigners have the upper hand ! Perhaps there is a religious system in Saudi Arabia, yes maybe and again Saudi Arabia is the equivalent of the Vatican in The Muslim world .
Hamad, on November 26, 2010 at 3:18 pm said:

Q Sandy

not that is not true, maybe what you saying apply to Najd region, but I am of Bedouin descent in the Eastern province and A Sunni Muslims 2 , and since ever we ave a little of mix of genders in our community but within boundaries and this within out traditions that include separation between unrelated males and females , yet we have some kind of mixing before my ancestors saw a white man ( or a white Arab ) or a tv ! You don’t know all the cultures withing Saudi Arabia. I value some things in western cultures for sure but I will never betray my culture and my long-established traditions ( even music-wise ! )
Sandy, on November 26, 2010 at 4:24 pm said:

@MoQ and Hamad,
The Aramco compound is, and always has-been the exception to how compounds are run. The same rules (legally have not applied there) So it does not compare because other compounds are not ALLOWED to be like Aramco.

Hamad,
YOu have made my point. There is no ONE culture for any country. But a certain amount of generalization is possible, in order to have meaningful dialogue. Stick to your quite small specific tribal traditions- but those don’t sound like the dominant “Saudi” culture- which originated in Nejd, and is what the rulers both political and reliegious use for guidence.
Aafke-Art, on November 26, 2010 at 5:01 pm said:

Hamad, It is the method of the weak to claim credentials as the path to validity of an argument.
MoQ, on November 26, 2010 at 5:26 pm said:

@Hamad,

When I said contemplate the questions, I meant dig deeper than the surface and standard excuses.

I cannot add more to what all of us have told you already. They are not getting a receptive ear. You are young and still learning, you will figure it out some day.

I hope you drop derogatory words like babe, it is not what you think it means in English and it makes you sound like sexist person. This is especially important since you are a Saudi and there is a predisposition for people to attach that title to Saudis. My advice is to learn better terms if you want to represent your country well.

Good luck to you on your studies…
Sandy, on November 26, 2010 at 6:24 pm said:

I would only add that you Hamad, don’t know all the cultures here in Saudi either. And I’m strongly suspecting that I have been part of a Saudi family for longer than you have.

P.S. It’s not a good idea to EVER call a woman “Babe”. It’s not like Habibi (and I bet you don’t say that to women you don’t know either). You might find yourself smacked.
Hamad, on November 26, 2010 at 8:42 pm said:

@ Sandu

what surprise me even more , that one who makes strong statements about a culture or a place and generalize a lot and make unintelligent judgments , he or she should have had serious personal issue over there , and therefore, has strong feeling about it !! you guys sound a lot like Bill Maher when he talks about the superiority of western cultures!
susanne430, on November 26, 2010 at 8:58 pm said:

Hamad, you call women you don’t know habibti? Maybe that word is thrown around in Arab culture more than I thought. Interesting!
Hamad, on November 26, 2010 at 9:03 pm said:

yes online tho not in reality
Sandy, on November 26, 2010 at 9:18 pm said:

@Hamad
What suprises me, is that you seem to forget you are the one that started all this when you came on here and just started harshly critisizing westerners for not seeking to blend in with Saudi culture. Everything else has been a response to that.
Hamad, on November 27, 2010 at 12:53 am said:

@ Sandy

for not seeking to learn the launauge before make judgments and talk like an expert in Saudi issues because if you are not completely fluent in Arabic then most of your views are BASED on your interpretor and translator biases! I

Interestingly, a western women who is married to a Saudi for many years and yet can not write in Arabic or start an intellectual conversion in Arabic !
MoQ, on November 27, 2010 at 1:03 am said:

@Sandy,

You are wasting your time, you are talking to a young person with limited experience. He discovered an idea (the learning Arabic requirement) and is stuck there without listening. No amount of talk will persuade him otherwise.

There is an old saying from Imam Al-Shafi’, when he was confronted by an arguing unlearned person:

“I can always win a debate with an intelligent educated man, but I always lose when debating the fools”
Sandy, on November 27, 2010 at 1:16 am said:

@MoQ,
I know I’m wasting my time. It’s funny he thinks I am going around with an interpreter.

Best of all I’m still laughing at being told I sound like Bill Maher. I’ve NEVER heard that one before. Anyway, good luck here. I won’t be around here much for awhile as I have a project I need to be working on.
Aafke-Art, on November 27, 2010 at 1:22 am said:

I am jealous
I wish somebody compared me with Bill Maher.
He’s the coolest most intelligent comedian around!
MoQ, on November 27, 2010 at 1:23 am said:

Good luck with the project. I have the day off, I think I will go watch some Bill Maher:)
American Bedu, on November 27, 2010 at 1:38 am said:

I am probably one of the few Americans who lived on an all “Saudi Compound.” Other than the foreign workers such as maintenance, drivers or housemaids, the actual residents on our compound who lived in the villas were Saudis. We lived on a compound since the villa was part of my husband’s position and he was not originally from Riyadh.
Hamad, on November 27, 2010 at 3:01 am said:

@ Sandy @ MoQ

Wow guys you are actually western supremacist!
Ali, on November 28, 2010 at 4:25 am said:

Dear Bedu,

I was wondering why I don’t see more posts about the Saudi music culture which one of the richest. Bith modern and traditional music is amazing to listen to { a good number of them lol } especially i f you understand the Saudi or ( Khlejie) Arabic. As one can notice , the Saudi modern music has its traditional taste to which is amazing how this music ( as old as 400 years maybe ! ) survived.

I hope you write about this.
these are some links which I see a good examples of the music

young people like to listen to this

a classical Saudi music
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mztgfvpiECI

this one was sang in French to by north american singer because she liked it so much and wanted to speared it.

and this one is funny , its a traditional dance from the south but the edited to Techno music

Thank you and I hope you blog demolish stereotypes about Saudi and do not make more stereotypes.

Thank you,
Dr. Nassef, on December 1, 2010 at 2:39 pm said:

Arabic is actually not an easy language to learn. I really admire any English speaker who is able to unfathom its depths and become familiar with it. It is from right to left, it has different letters that dont exist in the English language with new sounds to learn. It is much easier to learn English for an arabic speaker than vice versa. It is a challenge, that needs real dedication.
Dr. Nassef, on December 1, 2010 at 2:50 pm said:

this was indeed a strange debate, reading along i lost track of what the basic topic is. Somehow it appeared to be saudis vs ‘westerners’. As once said” east is east and west is west and they will never meet” !
It should not be one vs the other.
People are people, different dress, languages cultures, but really.. are we different?
American Bedu, on December 2, 2010 at 4:29 am said:

@Dr. Nassef,

I think Arabic is much easier to learn than English. I say this because once the alphabet has been memorized it is really “what you see is what you get” as compared to English where so many words can sound the same but mean different things or when some letters are short or silent, etc. You are correct that it does take dedication but I think all foreign languages require dedication and a desire to learn.
Dr. Nassef, on December 2, 2010 at 3:10 pm said:

@ Carol
Well that is a surprise to me, but a pleasant one. How do you find the making up of sentences and the grammar?
Aerrin, on December 2, 2010 at 8:54 pm said:

@ Carol,

I was introduced to Middle Eastern music and language when someone linked me to some of Sami Yusuf’s videos. I love the way Arabic sounds when sung and I’d really love to learn some of the language, instead of having to rely on translations. I picked up a beginning textbook from Barnes and Noble, but do you have any tips for English-speakers that are just learning Arabic?
American Bedu, on December 3, 2010 at 5:11 am said:

Again, straightforward. However I do need to say that I am not fluent in Arabic but I can read, write and speak.
mudathira, on December 9, 2010 at 10:57 am said:

Dear Bedu
Assalam-o-alaikum
let me begin by saying that i love your blog. it is very interesting and informative. I have a few questionsre saudi
My husband has got a job in saudi. I am a doctor & want to know if i will be allowed to work in KSA. will I be able to complete my training over there.

thanks in advance
American Bedu, on December 9, 2010 at 5:04 pm said:

Salam Alaikum Mudathira,

Welcome to American Bedu and thank you for your query.

There are many opportunities in the health care sector in Saudi Arabia for “local” expat hires. However it would probably be more beneficial to you (compensation and overall benefits) if you could be hired on an expat contract prior to arriving in the Kingdom. You do not mention which city your husband will be working in but you may wish to check out the web sites for King Faisal Specialist Hospital and National Guard Health Affairs for employment opportunities.

Could you explain more on what you mean by “complete your training” as that statement is a bit ambiguous and therefore difficult to answer.

Best Regards,
Bedu
Mudathira, on December 9, 2010 at 11:32 pm said:

Dear Bedu
Many thanks for your prompt reply. Your help is greatly appreciated.
My husband is a GP going to join BAE systems in Riyadh from UK. I did my M.B.B.S from Pakistan and came to UK. I completed year one of my foundation training in Uk which you can say is just the first rung of the ladder. I am currently on a year long maternity break until April 2011. I understand that I can apply for MRCP and come back to UK to take specialisation exams but what about training oppurtunities in the kingdom which is a pre requisite for success in such exams.

Regards
Mudathira
American Bedu, on December 10, 2010 at 6:46 am said:

Dear Mudathira,

I am not an expert on the specific training opportunities but I would suggest investigating the following which are all located in Riyadh:

King Fahd Medical City King Faisal Specialist Hospital & Research Centre National Guard Health Affairs Kingdom Hospital Saudi British Hospital Dallah Hospital

There are other institutions as well but those ones came to my mind first.

I wish you (and your husband) all the best. Bedu
Mudathira, on December 10, 2010 at 11:29 am said:

Thank you so much for your help. I will start doing the research.
American Bedu, on December 10, 2010 at 8:41 pm said:

Good luck!
Sarah, on December 13, 2010 at 1:02 pm said:

Dear Carol,

I came across this very interesting information about cancer treatment. Thought to share it with you and the readers

http://www.3news.co.nz/Scientists-find-Vitamin-C-beneficial-in-cancer-treatment/tabid/372/articleID/166524/Default.aspx

This one is about a man about to die with swine flu and luekameia. A living proof.

http://www.3news.co.nz/Living-Proof-Vitamin-C—Miracle-Cure/tabid/371/articleID/171328/Default.aspx

Sarah
confused, on December 17, 2010 at 11:00 pm said:

Here’s a video I thought you would find funny Carol. <3

http://wgaw.blogspot.com/2009/10/so-you-want-to-speak-arabic-like-native.html
American Bedu, on December 18, 2010 at 2:21 am said:

It is a funny one!
Simple Saudi, on December 24, 2010 at 5:35 pm said:

Hello Carol,

I recently stumbled across this video on youtube which I thought you’d find interesting as a new post topic…

Its a video by a young Saudi, which tackles the issue of fighting despair in saudi arabia, sadly its only in arabic at the moment but i think you’ll inderstand it.

sorry if this isnt the right place to post such a thing
Stacey, on December 26, 2010 at 4:43 pm said:

Dear Carol,

I recently obtained a visa and entered the Kingdom. I am living in Jeddah and decided to write for any advice on where to meet other expats and, more importantly, where to find all the American grocery items I have been missing!

Thanks in advance!
American Bedu, on December 27, 2010 at 5:31 am said:

Dear Stacey,

Welcome to the Kingdom and especially to Jeddah!

You did not mention in what industry you are working but generally work is the most common place where one meets other expatriates. Secondly, the various compounds are a great place. You’ll also meet expatriates at various functions and events such as events at local Consulates, clubs and organizations. There are expat organizations in Jeddah for women such as the British Womens Club and Canadian Womens club. The Historical society is another popular venue.

In regards to grocery items, the Tamimi grocery stores carry many many items from the United States.
Dulce, on December 28, 2010 at 1:51 am said:

My name is dulce, i live in Mexico, and i felt in love of men that is from Alexandria, but now he is working on Saudi Arabia in Riyadh, we only have 6 months of relationship, almost all of the time we speak by Skype or Msn, i found you searching a place where i can buy food in Riyadh pay by transfer and i wanted the restaurant send it to his home in order to celebrate this months together… but i found a lot of things that may concern me a lot, like Riyadh is the 3rd worst city to live.. i get sooo scared about him, besides i know i cant travel up to him, and he told me his contract there dont let him go out of the country until he finished it…. for that we will wait 1 year and some months… i am happy to have someone to talk with that knows more about the city that my love is… thank you for writing this colum i have learn a lot… best wishes for all and inshallah we will be fine…
Habeeba, on January 17, 2011 at 12:14 am said:

Dear Bedu,
Just wanted to know if you know that Secretary of State Hilary Clinton was on the program Kalam Nawa’im on MBC 1 tonight. Were you able to see it?

-Habeeba
American Bedu, on January 17, 2011 at 4:06 am said:

Dear Habeeba,

No; I was not aware and did not see the program. Did you watch it? If so, care to share your views?

Regards, Bedu
Habeeba, on January 17, 2011 at 2:25 pm said:

Dear Bedu,
Yes I did watch it, she spoke very eloquently and was able to address concerns of the American government without stepping on any toes.
The interview was in the UAE at a university and there was a large audience of students as well as officials.
My only gripe is that the ladies of the program didn’t have that great of a command of the English language and the interview was in English from start to finish. I found these links for the video- hope you enjoy it.

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

Part 5

-Habeeba
Habeeba, on January 17, 2011 at 2:31 pm said:

Also this is a great opportunity for people to see a Saudi woman who is in the spotlight, the woman who is wearing a scarf is a Saudi and she has been on this program for a couple years.
American Bedu, on January 18, 2011 at 12:43 am said:

thank you for the info Habeeba.
Sarah, on January 23, 2011 at 2:26 pm said:

Hello
I will be moving to the US sometime this year from Riyadh and I was wondering if you or anyone else on the site knew of a reputable shipping company I could use. I was planning on shipping a few boxes of clothing, books and children’s toys (no furniture)
confused, on January 27, 2011 at 2:14 am said:

Hi Carol!

I don’t know if you watch that show in the Gulf that’s like American Idol, but there was a Saudi girl (well I few actually) on there, and now one of them is married and has kind of a staged reality show which I think is sooooooooooo cute.

I just thought you might like it ^_^
Muhammad Bangura, on February 11, 2011 at 3:39 pm said:

Dear Bedu,

Salam to you again, how are you? I have a few questions:-

(1) I’ve been told that there is a way of getting a ‘any profession’ work visa from Saudi Arabia without even being there, is that possible?
I thought a work visa can only be acquired through getting a job offer and signing a contract – while in Saudi Arabia.

(2) Since I don’t have a kafeel, if a company has given me a job offer to which I’ve signed on, does that company become my kafeel? And just starting with a new job, can I apply to get a ‘transferable iqama? Or is that up to the company I am working for?

(3) And if at all I can’t get a job offer from Saudi Arabia, I go there on a 30 days visiting visa, after that period, can it get extended from there itself?
If so, what are the chances of getting an extra period of stay? If not, then will I have to pay a fine there, or would I face the risk of getting deported?

Thanks Bedu
Lynn, on February 11, 2011 at 8:02 pm said:

Habeeba, I don’t think that anyone has any doubts about the abilities of Saudi women OUTside of Saudi Arabia as this program is.
Aafke-Art, on February 11, 2011 at 9:18 pm said:

Habeeba, a Dutch documentary maker made a documentary which was aired on Dutch television a few years ago.
She also followed all four ladies into a glimpse of their personal lives.
Aafke-Art, on February 11, 2011 at 9:19 pm said:

I meant, ”made a documentary about this show and the women moderators”
American Bedu, on February 12, 2011 at 7:38 am said:

Dear Muhammad,

Salam Alaikam.

I’m not sure if what has been suggested to you as the first option is a valid manner.

If you are sponsored for a work visa, then whoever has sponsored you (individual or company) would be your sponsor.

Honestly the situation can change and I’ve been away from Saudi for a while now. I do not have the answers to all your questions.
bri, on February 12, 2011 at 8:53 am said:

Hello I’m in Riyadh and would like to know if you could refer me to a general and cosmetic dentist, also a good obgyn and orthopedic doctor. I would highly appreciate your suggestions
Thank you
Muhammad Bangura, on February 12, 2011 at 9:16 am said:

Dear Bedu,

Malikumasalam, yeah i’ll have to work around the ‘kafeel’ issue. But thanks anyway, I hope things work out for the better -insha’allah.
Bye for now, and good day !
American Bedu, on February 12, 2011 at 6:25 pm said:

@Bri,

In regards to ob/gyn I like Dr. Maysoon (sp?) at National Guard Health Affairs. You may be able to get an appointment with her by going through the NGHA business center.

I do not know any dentists well enough to make a recommendation but perhaps others may help.
American Bedu, on February 12, 2011 at 6:26 pm said:

Dear Muhammad,

Good luck to you!

Regards, Bedu
Rozhamra, on February 16, 2011 at 6:29 am said:

Dear American Bedu,

I am inthe US and I am planning on visiting KSA. I have some family there and of course it is customary to bring along gifts. My question pertains to brands and such. I wanted to get some Apple Bottom branded shirts for my nieces. (Their mother comes from a very wealth family and so they are used to the much finer things in life.) I was worried that it was not a decent recognizable brand. (You know how enamored saudis are with brands!)
Thanks for your help!
Reema, on February 17, 2011 at 3:17 am said:

@Rozhamra

How old are your nieces?

I put a vote in for Paul Frank.
Aafke-Art, on February 17, 2011 at 3:22 pm said:

Rozhamra, sheesh, forget the brands! A present should never be criticized anyway, that would be the bottom pit of bad taste and in that case they don’t deserve a present to start with.

Why not get them something original? Something they could never get in KSA? Get something unique made by an artisan, indian jewelry or leathercrafted bags something.
American Bedu, on February 18, 2011 at 1:14 am said:

While I know that a Western perspective is often to present a unique gift such as Aafke presented, I also know that there are some folks who, if they do not recognize a brand or label, then do not appreciate the gift for what it is. Popular gifts when going to Saudi do include Parisian perfumes and designer (name) hand bags. Other gifts which are easier on the budget and enjoyed include “jelly belly” jelly beans or types of gourmet popcorn.
Maria Soy, on February 20, 2011 at 4:05 pm said:

Dear American Bedu,
in one of your posts you mention de Natural History Society. I’m interested in going out birdwatching near Jeddah, but can’t find contact info for that Society. Can you help me? Thanks very much!
American Bedu, on February 21, 2011 at 4:04 am said:

Dear Maria,

I am going to make some inquiries with a friend who has been active with the Society for contact info.

Best Regards,
Bedu
American Bedu, on February 22, 2011 at 4:52 am said:

@Maria,

If you email me directly at admin@americanbedu.com I can give you additional info about the Natural History Society.

Best Regards,
Bedu
bri, on February 23, 2011 at 4:35 pm said:

hello carol,
I just found out that my husbands employer does allow me to go to National Guard Hospital yeah! The obgyn you refer me to is her name Maysoon Adham?
I just want to be sure she is the right one?
I also discovered Gama dental any info on them?
thanks for your help
American Bedu, on February 24, 2011 at 2:13 am said:

Hi Bri,

That’s great news! You will be very pleased with Maysoon Adham.

I am not familiar with Gama dental but perhaps someone else has heard about them here?
bri, on February 26, 2011 at 2:01 am said:

thanks again Caro tomorrow is a holiday in KSA
I will make an appt. Sun.
one more question, does ACS still open?
bri, on February 26, 2011 at 2:01 am said:

thanks again Caro tomorrow is a holiday in KSA
I will make an appt. Sun.
one more question, is ACS still open?
American Bedu, on February 26, 2011 at 9:39 pm said:

Bri,

I look forward to your feedback on your appointment with Dr. Maysoon.

When you query about ACS, are you referring to the American Citizen Services at the US embassy in Riyadh? If so, yes it remains open.

If you are instead querying about American Community Services, it remains in existence but under a different name. Contact the American (International) school for more information.
Saud, on February 28, 2011 at 11:27 pm said:

Dear Bedu,

I was referred to your blog by my girlfriend who is a French-Canadian. She was like “ check this and tell me what do you think”. I remember it took me around 3 weeks to go over the blog from the beginning, and then I had mixed feeling about this blog about your experience and about the message you try to cross. Clearly you had a good experience with a Saudi man but you and your man – may he be in haven enshallah- were from different generation than mine. Things are different now, although I’m not saying family is not the most important part of my life or that I am going to marry my girlfriend. I’ll briefly tell you about her. We met in college , I was 20 and she was 19 we dated and in the first morning we woke up together I explained to her that this would be a boyfriend-girlfriend type of relation and if I am going home after I finish school, it would be it and I am telling you at the beginning to be honest with you. Guess what ? She was ok with ? why.. I guess no 20 years old kid at that time would treat her the way I did , have much man , travel and let her discover another culture without leaving Canada. Now I am 23 and I work in Canada but I’m going home in 2 years or so back to Dammam. She knows I am going back home and the relationship wont end with marriage, but guess what again? Most Canadian raise and born men wont marry their first girlfriends, some would do, but most would not!! I’m true to my core family, religious and traditional values. I believe in one god I believe in Mohammed and I will be a truly practiced Muslim someday, I treat my girl like a gentleman, she lived with me in Montreal, she traveled with me to Europe and I think her years with me is wonderful experience for both of us. I think there is so much o disrespecting for Saudi people’s culture and especially Saudi young men in your blogs, and I am glad that my girlfriend is wise to not believe everything she reads!
And I ever thought of marrying a western women, I would truly reconsider it after reading your blog and Susie of Arabia blog! My view is, if I married a western woman, she would, carry the same thoughts and not try to get blended in with my community, and would be disrespectful to the local culture to my religion and even to my king – god bless him. Then I prefer just to be a boyfriend because I don’t my kids to be sell-outs and lose their idnitity and have no pride in their origins or rich history or culture. I am not a very traditional guy but I show a great deal of respect to my people and their traditions, they now I am bit westernized but I respect different cultures, especially my people’s! Lastly, I feel bad for every young woman, who have their whole life ahead of them, that would step back from dating or knowing a Saudi ( or Qatari or Emiratie ect ) just because of some propaganda and idiotic generalization about 17 million Saudi and about a country that in the size of western Europe!

Regards,

Saud
lyka, on March 1, 2011 at 5:22 am said:

Dear Bedu,

Good Day! I recently subscribed to your blog because I find all the topics containing inside interesting…

I tried to post one question and got 2 answers directly, felt so glad to know someone is out there ready to listen and share too..

But when I tried to answer back, something went wrong, I was frustrated to comment and reply so I typed again and again but still my comments weren’t anymore appearing for the person intended for it to read….

Hope you can help me, got confused since yesterday…

Thanks in Advance…
Dr. Nassef, on March 2, 2011 at 11:27 pm said:

@ Saud
Allow me to comment on the last sentences.
In your case, your girl made the choice of staying. It was her choice. Many others may want to choose differently, and in that case would be seeking their own happiness. I would think that a girl having a boyfriend is mostly hoping it would work out and end in marriage. I dont think it has to do with generalization but with Saudi law and also the culture that you respect that you say ‘prevents’ you from marrying out of it, would also apply to most (if not all) Saudi young men.
Lynn, on March 3, 2011 at 12:16 am said:

@Saud – ‘I’m true to my core family, religious and traditional values.’

If that were true shouldn’t it mean that you don’t have sex outside of marriage?
Coolred38, on March 3, 2011 at 12:43 am said:

Nassef just explained exactly what many Saudi men do…go have fun with relationships while abroad but with the intention of becoming or reverting back to his “core values and religion” once back among his own family and friends and his own country.

The only thing different (according to him) is that he told his gf up front and she doesnt seem to mind and in it for exactly the same things he is…some fun, companionship…and sex.

No problem with that whole thing at all…except his own words describe exactly what we have all been saying…they play for the most part while far from home but always have the intention of returning and being “the good muslim boy/son” in the end. Girlfriend may be dumped…or married and brought home but should have the foresight to know this will happen to his personality.

Nice to have it verified…now all those gf of Saudis/Arabs who claim “not MY Saudi/Arab” can see for themself…yes…even yours.

As I said…not a bad thing…just not always an honest thing when the guy doesnt mention any of this at any point in the relationship.

btw I second Lynns response.
Coolred38, on March 3, 2011 at 12:45 am said:

oops….meant Saud…not Nassef. No idea how that name came out.
gia, on March 3, 2011 at 1:02 am said:

saud
you and your girlfriend are at the same level in morals. you are lower. a girl at that age wants to get married, she was hanging on to a miracle to marry you. why would she care of your culture, and seek knowledge on it [ internet, bedu blogs..ect...]. i am sure she has mentioned marring you many times during the plastic relationship that you think so highly of. you think you are a man? you are a user like the men you speak of. tell her you want to marry her, and she will say ‘yes’. what comes around goes around. wait and see what you get to marry when you do marry if it is not this girlfriend. and it’s not her face im talking about. cheers!
Lynn, on March 3, 2011 at 1:10 am said:

‘I was 20 and she was 19 we dated and in the first morning we woke up together I explained to her that this would be a boyfriend-girlfriend type of relation and if I am going home after I finish school’

Can we really call this upfront when the confession didn’t happen until AFTER you woke up together?
Harry Guggen, on March 3, 2011 at 1:32 am said:

Saud – ‘I was 20 and she was 19 we dated and in the first morning we woke up together I explained to her that this would be a boyfriend-girlfriend type of relation and if I am going home after I finish school’

Lynn – Can we really call this upfront when the confession didn’t happen until AFTER you woke up together?

This Saud is a hypocrite through and through -

God Save the King …..
Aafke-Art, on March 3, 2011 at 2:07 am said:

Saud Thank you for sharing.
Shouldn’t you have told her your selfish plans before you slept with her? Wouldn’t that have been the honorable thing to do?

And I give it a 99% chance she thinks you really love her and will come around and be true to her and marry her. Women are funny that way, they have this almost uncanny trust and believe in the men they love. They will keep on believing against all proof that their boyfriend is not a pig in human shape but a prince who will be true to them in the end.
But you aren’t are you? So you are the other thing.

I suppose you are not religious at all, otherwise you wouldn’t have been using a girl before marrying her, and then afterwards tell her you don’t mean to treat her honorably.
What a disgusting way to behave.
btw, are you planning to tell your future bride, whom you no doubt will be expecting to be pure and virgin , and her parents that you have been having sex and playing around with other women before you dumped them?
And what if your wife would tell you after the wedding that she has been having a few boyfriends herself?
You should be perfectly ok with that of course.

Well, you do indeed keep to the traditions of your culture: Hypocrisy in all, no honor, treating other humans as if they are disposable objects.
Thanks again for this confession.
gia, on March 3, 2011 at 3:34 am said:

saud
i just had to come back and throw my FIL’s bathroom slipper at you…it’s the most used.
i spit at you and you are a donkey…all that should feel good, like saudi style.
American Bedu, on March 3, 2011 at 4:15 am said:

What about the woman who chose to have relations outside of marriage?

I respect that Saud came forward. I’m not saying I agree but it took guts to come forward.
Lynn, on March 3, 2011 at 5:05 am said:

As long as the woman is not professing to be ‘true to my core family, religious and traditional values.’ as she has that relation outside of marriage. Then she too would seem like a hypocrite. But if she is more liberal minded and doesn’t concern herself so much with her ‘chastity’ but rather her ‘integrity’ then I’d say she’s pretty cool.

But, perhaps that’s just me.
Saud, on March 3, 2011 at 5:42 am said:

well, normally I wouldn’t respond due to the level of discussion I noticed through reading the blog, but just to have some perceptive out of this, and because mel, some good friends and I are having some sisha at the moment after a nice a dinner and she asked me to write what I think and what I have mentioned to her few years ago.

First, I have been living abroad for while, between going to francophone high school, studying at Canadian university and working in Canada, that I just be plane with people when it comes to my people’s, I represent my own views in this relationship matter but I keep it real, No fooling or hating.

We met at party, spent the night together and as one of our friend says to mel’ he could be one of these random guys” and I according to them I wouldn’t be the first one and I knew that!
I was was an honest gentlemen and told her my sights in marriage issue , I didn’t lie to her , I didn’t sweet talk her and drag her into the relationship! she was alright with the situation and we still together! during the university years, she could end up with on these douchebags, she could end with someone other than me whos nicer but she had the choice and she still have it if she thinks if disrespectful or I am not the man for her at the moment!

My point was thats not as simple as the blogger put it! Its not like if a Saudi/Arab guy loves an American etc, can ask her to marry him just like they do back in the mideast! I mean imagine a 21 years old saudi who fall in love with a girl when he study abroad, and he wants to marry her and goes with his parents , as they do in mideast, to ask her to marry him!! What her respond would be? something like ” you are so wired dude!!?” She expects to have a relationship before this happen. But when they get in relationship, its hard to turn it into marriage if they are going back because he will challenge everything sacred about marriage muslim believe in. I am just reflecting the image here.

My mel is proud Quebecois, and I respect that. But it means that, if we ever get married, she will have a huge influence in my kids, a French influence which I may not appreciate much. Intercultural relationships can be beautiful, and they are, but when the kids come, its different issue and in Saudi-Arab/American case is a dilemma! Americans, especially those who live in small bubble and dont know the world until they are in their 30s ( no offense ) , think their value are international and should work everywhere! I am not saying Islamic or Arabic values are holy though. I am saying If I am gonna live in Saudi or Arab country, I would them to grow up with having the whole spirit and at least respect thier traditions even if they not going to follow it and show appreciation for their culture.

@ Lynn

It is, but I am true in a sense that I respect it, respect the people who follow it and understand them.

@ Aafke-Art

Read this comment from the beginning you will find some answers. And the other thing If I wanted to get marry to her I would do it with my family blessing because they know I would do it anyhow as I am financially interdependent , but I wont marry a ” western” woman unless she is ready to immerse herself into the culture of the city and the family. It takes sacrifice and its not always the ‘Arab” who has to do it. If she really loves, he told her honestly about his city and family culture and she agreed then this is a must do thing from her side, and the must from his side is to stand up for her!

@ Bedu

what do you mean?
Lynn, on March 3, 2011 at 6:01 am said:

Saud, I understand and I am not condemning you for your relationship. I was in a similar relationship for 5 years. So I really DO understand. But I still don’t think it is correct to say that you have respect for the religious and cultural values when you are spitting on them (or throwing a slipper?) as well as presenting a bad example of Muslims. But, as long as your family never finds out it’s ok, right? Were you perhaps drinking alcohol at that party and that is why you would go so far against the values that your parents instilled in you and bed down with a stranger?
Saud, on March 3, 2011 at 6:14 am said:

Lynn,

I am 23 years old man and my parents rule ended when I was 17 and went to a board school and then university and finding a great job in a foreign country to enrich my work experience , I show respect for them and would give back to them but otherwise they don’t get much involved in my personal life! Just to say one thing, I don’t drink , not even for religious reasons for the big part!
gia, on March 3, 2011 at 6:17 am said:

im not sure if i understand….so she was not a virgin at the party when you met?
oby, on March 3, 2011 at 7:12 am said:

It seems a bit odd that your Mel would have this relationship with you now for three years without any expectations…generally women, when they are involved in long term relations do so because they see a future in it with the man. VERY FEW women will enter a relationship with the idea that “we’ll have sex and build a life in the here and now but there is no future in this.” Maybe if they have a terminal illness…Aafke is right…she may not be saying it but good ol’ Mel most likely has agreed to go for the ride in the hopes that you will change your mind in the end. Women generally don’t have sex solely as a recreational activity…they are fully invested once it becomes intimate…generally speaking. So either Mel is is not being honest about how she feels OR IMO she is a woman of dubious intentions.
StrangeOne, on March 3, 2011 at 7:32 am said:

To be honest, I can respect Saud for his honesty with the girl. And I agree that intercultural relationships take compromise on both sides. Who’s not to say that the girl isn’t just as guilty about using the guy in the relationship, too? I find this type of person a lot easier to respect than someone who promises his girl the world and then proceeds to just use her for sex. And all variations of people, including these, exist in every culture and country.

If I were to ever decide to marry someone from another country, especially someone from a culture significantly different from my own, I would expect compromise on both sides. I think children of inter-cultural marriages should be raised with knowledge and experience of both. Honestly, there are a lot of things about Saudi culture that I love more than their US equivalents. I don’t know that I’d call immersing oneself in another culture a “sacrifice” though. It’s just experiencing another way of living. I would also expect that any religious person will want to live in accordance with his/her own religion.

The only thing I have a problem with is if- and I’m not saying Saud is this way- a guy who isn’t a virgin himself refuses to marry a girl simply because she’s not a virgin. I find this a bit hypocritical and judgmental. I also find it wrong to base a life-long decision such as marriage on something so fleeting as virginity, but that’s my opinion.
StrangeOne, on March 3, 2011 at 7:49 am said:

@Saud,
I think most women (and probably a good share of men) would expect a relationship that has gone on for years to end in marriage. Not saying your girl is this way (or that all of them end up happy if & when they do get married), just that it is more common for someone to feel this way. For me, I would wonder why someone I got along well enough that I could stand to live with for a few years and vice versa wouldn’t work out in the long run. I’d probably just be like, “Why not get married?” But that’s just me and every person is different.

BTW, if a Saudi guy I had been seeing had his parents meet my parents when asking to marry me, I’d find it very sweet and not in the least bit weird because it’s normal in his culture. So not all Western girls think alike either, and not all are against living another lifestyle. Give us credit for being individuals, too, please.
Aafke-Art, on March 3, 2011 at 11:57 am said:

Ok, it’s at least nice of Saud to be clear about his non-intentions (after having sex), after all we have also seen the story of the Saudi student who tried to lure a girl into a mutah marriage fully intending her to believe it was a real marriage. I think that guy definitely is the pits.

But Saud, in all fairness, when you go back to Saudi to marry a Saudi woman, who understands you culture, i think it would be the right thing to do to look amongst the divorced or widowed women. After all you have had an abundance of sexual experiences, you cannot insist your Saudi intended to be virgin. And there are a lot of Saudi women around who have been married and can’t find a decent husband who wants an only wife.

Oby put it very nicely, it is extremely rare to find a woman who is in a long/term relationship and does not hope/expect/dream of this being ”the real thing” ”for ever”.
Dr. Nassef, on March 3, 2011 at 2:38 pm said:

@ Aafke
Just for the sake of understanding, you defined considering marriage to be related to a long term relation. My question is, what would a girl have in mind when she has sex for the first time with a man she just met.
Aafke-Art, on March 3, 2011 at 2:52 pm said:

Dr Nassef, no idea. I am only in for the long term relationship with a serious honest man.
jay kactuz, on March 3, 2011 at 9:06 pm said:

Carol,

I have a request.

The Middle East is in turmoil, from Morocco to Iran. I often wonder where there is going. I am pretty sure that nobody really knows because there are so many factors and influences to be considered.

There are about 10 months left in 2011. Could you open a post asking people to give us their best guess, errr, informed opinion, on what these countries will look like on Dec 31.

For example: Will Libya be free of the King of Kings by then? Will Tunisia return to stability? Will there be significant reforms in Saudi Arabia? Will Egypt hold elections? Will the Brotherhood win? What will happen in Jordan?

Thanks

jay
Aafke-Art, on March 3, 2011 at 9:48 pm said:

I do think it’s very sad how Saud considers his own culture, which has many despicable traits, so highly, and in return despises other cultures, like the ancient and richly cultural French culture, and doesn’t want his children contaminated with it.
Meanwhile fully enjoying the amenities of that despised culture.

And what do you mean ”your children”?
You do realize that any children you would have with your Mel would be hers as well?
Actually they would be more hers than yours, they grew in her belly for nine months, they are mor a part of her than of you. She gave birth to them, a feat a man would never even survive as a gynecologist once told me.
Even science supports the fact that children belong more to the mother than the father: in vertebrate animals at least 60% of their offspring’s genes come from the mother.
In other words: mothers are more important than fathers.
Any children you might have are not your children, you have a part in making them but your genes are not in the majority, nor will you have done any of the hard work in bringing a child into the world.
Aafke-Art, on March 3, 2011 at 9:57 pm said:

Oh, btw, one of the reasons that Arabs are so hysterical about women’s virginity is because they still believe in a bizarre concept called telegony.
This one of the bizarre superstitions about heredity which our ancestors believed. It goes like this: the first sexual encounter a female animal, or human has will influence all of her future offspring. So they will be more the offspring of the first male to have sex with her rather than any subsequent males.
Total bs of course.

The other reason I suppose it that Arab men don’t like second hand objects.
Even if they themselves wouldn’t bring much in a knacker yard they are so used up.
radha, on March 3, 2011 at 10:02 pm said:

“Intercultural relationships can be beautiful, and they are, but when the kids come, its different issue ”

– and why is that different, if a 20+ yr old person can immerse herself in a culture and can blend 2 cultures successfully why is it assumed that children ( the more resilient breed) will not.

– No comments on your relationship and am glad that you were honest, but in my experience when youare in-love you will want the best for the person you love, even if that means giving up your happiness No 1 culture is better than the other, older maybe but definetly nothing special. we all feel that way that’s all.

–mmy husband is saudi , i’m indian, we don’t debate on whose culture is better, to me it;s mine ot him it’s his, we merge and raise our kids in both – actually they are part indian/part saudi/part american in respect to our place of residence. I deal with saudi students quite frequently and honestly they are no better or worse off than my kids irrespective of culture.

but i still stick to my opinion of be wary of a saudi student — especially if ou are thinking of happily ever after – if you are after a short sweet fun affair, go for it, no one better than a saudi student to have fun, he willfo sure leave – no clingy stalking issues there
Aafke-Art, on March 3, 2011 at 11:15 pm said:

Hee Radha, good point! And I do think we should be more positive.
Let’s keep this point in mind for the future: Although there’s not future with a Saudi Student, there’s also no stalking!
American Bedu, on March 5, 2011 at 2:20 am said:

I think folks are being too harsh on Saud. He sounds upfront and candid to me.

I may be a fuddy duddy in the sense of believing the greatest gift one can give to a partner is oneself and that should be at the time of marriage. That is my personal belief.

However in so many cultures and differing nationalities around the world intimacy just happens without any thought of a relationship but to satisfy a need. Therefore I think there has been a lot of “snap” judging of Saud and his partner. The important thing is their relationship and understanding to each other.
Dr. Nassef, on March 6, 2011 at 12:21 am said:

About virginity: it has to do with honor, and with religion. Chastity is upheld, it is easily understood to anyone who was brought up in the middle east, whether a christian or a muslim. I think it may be very difficult for those brought up in a western culture.
Coolred38, on March 6, 2011 at 12:39 am said:

Dr nassef…I may. Chasity in the middle east is definitely understood differently than in a western culture…because we do not tie up virginity squarely with the female body…as do people in the middle east. Their idea of chasity is that females wait for her husband to take her “gift”…meanwhile quietly accepting the fact that her husband most likely gifted and regifted his own “gift” many times over.

AB..sometimes intimacy happens with plenty of thought and discussion. We are not all horny rabbits out to satisfy a need. Some are, some arent. I would venture a guess that most people in an intimate relationship are not just in it to scratch an itch
Aafke-Art, on March 6, 2011 at 1:35 am said:

Nassef, honor has to do with my actions, with honesty, with loyalty, with courage. Not with a tiny piece of skin which I may or may not have. (Many women do not have a hymen at all) That would denigrate me to an object, and ignore my value as an intelligent sentient being with free will.

Also: putting honor on something so immaterial and unimportant as a piece of skin would bring great dishonor on whoever would devalue me in such a way as a human being.

And bringing up the idea of Middle Eastern ”chastity” combined with how middle Eastern men squander theirs as soon as they get the opportunity is both hypocritical and ludicrous.
American Bedu, on March 6, 2011 at 3:19 am said:

“females wait for her husband to take her “gift”…meanwhile quietly accepting the fact that her husband most likely gifted and regifted his own “gift” many times over.”

That comment is great!
Kristine, on March 6, 2011 at 4:46 am said:

@Coolred, LOL! That reminds me of the phrase, “the gift that keeps on giving.”
Sarah, on March 6, 2011 at 12:47 pm said:

Hello,

I was going to move and leave Riyadh for the US sometime in the summer insha Allah and I would like to ask you and your readers of any shipping companies they know and also of places I can place ads for the furniture I want to sell before we leave. Thank you.
Coolred38, on March 6, 2011 at 1:44 pm said:
American Bedu, on March 7, 2011 at 3:52 am said:

@Sarah,

You can place ads for sale at compounds, bulletin boards at the grocery stores, and hardware stores. International schools and expat organizations are good places for ads as well.

Al-Tayyar does an excellent job with shipping items, furnishings and complete household effects.
Dr. Nassef, on March 8, 2011 at 10:43 pm said:

@ Aafke-Art and @ Coolred38
Thank you for your comments
FIRST: The hymen is present in ALL women. The congenital problems documented are almost restricted to the imperforate hymen which may present at child hood or much later as primary amenorrhoea. It is an embryological impossibility that it be absent. The number of congenital hymen absence documented in medical literature is naturally zero.
SECOND: Chastity, it applies to men and women. Having pre/ extra-marital sex in the middle east is culturally and religiously (christians and muslims alike) condemned. Hence, to lose virginity outside wedlock means disgrace to the whole family, for breaking the ethical religious and social code. It is the ACT here that causes dishonor.
THIRD: Marriage is basically looked at as means of building a family. It takes into consideration, not the couple but the offspring. Ancestry lineage carries is very important and integral in the social structure. It is important that every child born has to know who his father is, the implications of which are clear enough. Hence it is the religious, and social duty of the groom to choose a good mother that would do honor to her children. It is not only the union of two persons, but the union of two families, which may put at times extra stress on the couple. That leads to the idea of arranged marriages that is not restricted to the middle east but also widely applied in old cultures as India and Japan. These traditions though alive, are not as strict as they were before.
FOURTH: Males as well as females are obligated socially and religiously to avoid extra-marital sex, however, the society is forgiving for males where it is very unforgiving with females, while religion condemns both equally.
FIFTH: i am not debating which society has the best ethical values. I am correcting and narrating the view of this part of the world that i am part of, and which has not moved to a different phase as the western world (e.g. the concept of boyfriend-girl friend living together is culturally totally unacceptable in the middle east where it is the norm in the west), but still is holding on to centuries old traditions.
LASTLY: when seeking information i would advice it be sought from the original authentic sources and not pseudo ones, e.g for authentic medical knowledge i would refer you to Pubmed of the national library of medicine.
thank you
Lynn, on March 8, 2011 at 11:34 pm said:

I won’t say that I don’t have a hymen but I DO know that I did not bleed when I had my first sexual intercourse (or any time after that as far as I know). Can you explain that? What if I was born into a traditional Muslim family and entered into an arranged marriage or ANY kind of marriage for that matter. Can you predict how that would have gone over? Hmmmm?
Dr. Nassef, on March 9, 2011 at 12:03 am said:

There is something called an elastic hymen. it will rupture with childbirth.
Lynn, on March 9, 2011 at 12:40 am said:

So, would my elastic hymen and lack of bleeding upon losing my virginity cause dishonor to my conservative Muslim family? Would I be divorced and then unmarriageable? Would I be perhaps be killed?
hmm, on March 9, 2011 at 3:13 am said:

Yes, what does a Muslim bride do if she doesn’t bleed on her wedding night and she is in fact a virgin?
Would her husband suspect she is being dishonest?

What a terrible way to start a marriage! ESPECIALLY given that the poor girl can do nothing about it; as it is normal and natural for some women NOT to bleed with their first sexual encounter!
Aafke-Art, on March 9, 2011 at 3:35 am said:

the hymen gets more elastic with age, I posted an article about that some time ago.
So if women bleed maybe it could be they are too young, or the man is too bad in the technique of lovemaking, or both.
Aafke-Art, on March 9, 2011 at 3:52 am said:

Something like 45% of women don’t bleed on first intercourse. So If I were a Muslim girl I’d get something to create some spots, just to be sure.
Although I really think that it should be seen as embarrassing and a disgrace for the man if he had been such a loser in bed to make her bleed.

Some women’s hymens are so elastic that they remain intact after intercourse.

But it’s really too silly a superstition that all virgin women bleed on first time intercourse.
It’s really difficult to believe that there are still people who believe such nonsense in the 21st century.

*Youngsters who are inexperienced in sexual intercourse techniques may not realize that it is necessary that both partners be completely relaxed and comfortable to ensure sufficient lubrication for smooth penetration. Bleeding during first intercourse is usually brief, and in some women, it may not occur. Women who participate actively in sports like cycling, and horse riding, may have torn or stretched their hymen much before their sexual encounters, and hence, they may not experience any hymen bleeding or pain. Women who use tampons during their menstrual periods also often dilate the hymen when they insert a tampon.
Certain vaginal or sexual intercourse methods like the woman on top instead of the usual missionary position allow the woman to control the pace and depth of penetration. This reduces chances of a sudden rupture or any injury to the surrounding tissue, which may result in bleeding during intercourse. The presence of the hymen or its absence has nothing to do with virginity. Even women who have had vaginal intercourse have been found to have their hymen intact, thanks to its elasticity. It is also common to have no bleeding during the first intercourse even when the hymen is torn. Spotting is common, but it goes mostly unnoticed, once the momentary discomfort passes.*
Aafke-Art, on March 9, 2011 at 4:09 am said:

These superstitions stay alive only when societies don’t discuss them and educate. If the topic is taboo, society doesn’t talk about it, there is no sensible sex-education in schools, no books, no tv programs, then people will know nothing, no facts, and therefore misleading superstitions stay alive.

So, dr Nassef, I suppose you are a medical doctor? I’m assuming you are a responsible person.
What do you do about this issue? Because you will be aware of how much suffering this superstition about hymens and bleeding can cause to women.
Women get divorced, women get shamed just because of this superstition.
Have you been educating people about women, intercourse and hymens? And the fact that 45% of women do not bleed?
Aafke-Art, on March 9, 2011 at 4:19 am said:

Some women are not even allowed to do sports because it might affect the Holy Hymen!
A friend in the Emirates told me the women walk in a kind of rolling gate because they are so scared to tear the Holy Hymen. Their whole life is focused on saving the Holy Hymen, just so they can shed the Holy Blood on first intercourse.
And of course some women make use of other orifices with their boyfriends all so they can save the Holy Hymen…
That’s what happens if a woman’s worth is only measured by the Holy Hymen.
Dr. Nassef, on March 9, 2011 at 11:02 pm said:

@ Aafke, i dont know where you get your information from. In the middle east, it is rare that there is any problem with that “hymen focus’.
Women in the middle east “bar KSA” are active participants in every day life with no segregation from men as occurs in KSA. That also includes sports. I dont know if it was a joke about women walking in a specific way for the ‘hymen’ or just sheer nonsense. People are not as ignorant here as you may think they are. I want to add, that this is CULTURE, A CHRISTIAN MAN WOULD FEEL AS STRONG ABOUT IT AS A MUSLIM.
You can only get to understand the TRUTH by talking to the people here. Remember, middle east is a huge area with different types of communities, but ALL share the idea that the ‘proper’ and respectable thing is that sex be restricted to a long term family life and never out of it.
That is the norm of this area. Saying that, people are people and not angels, and laws are always broken.
Coolred38, on March 10, 2011 at 12:19 am said:

Dr. Nassef…”Women in the middle east “bar KSA” are active participants in every day life with no segregation from men as occurs in KSA”…if I may point out the pure unadulterated bullshit of that statement. I just spent 23 years in a middle eastern country “bar KSA”…and one that is considered “westernized” by Arab standards…and segregation is still very much alive and well.

I am not arab…am not a native of that country…and yet when I attempted to ride a bike out side for some exercise I was shouted at, had some vulgar words thrown my way as to my perceived station in life…and a few even took the liberty of spitting in my direction.

Apparently a female riding a bike, even a non native one, is akin to fornicating in the middle of the street. Until when Arabs will get over this hangup of not allowing women to do anything even remotely physcial outside?

No segregation my ass. And that is just one of many many incidents in which segregation is very much alive and well in the middle east “bar KSA”.
Dr. Nassef, on March 10, 2011 at 12:28 am said:

coolred :
bullshit, No segregation my ass. !!! very pretty!!
You seem to have learned nothing from your stay in the middle east.
I dont know how ‘bike’ riding classifies as being segregated.
You have been attacked by some rude persons.. this has nothing to do with what i am talking about.
Dr. Nassef, on March 10, 2011 at 12:34 am said:

@ coolred
I am sorry for your bad experience, it is not the usual for females to be riding bikes unchaperoned in most middle eastern countries. Someone should have helped you with a better understanding of the cultural values. So that you may not be considered disrespectful to the culture you were in, or give a wrong message.
However, though they man not ‘ride bikes’ they participate as teachers, doctors, politicians and lawyers… I assure you, unsegregated life is not about ‘bike riding’.
Lynn, on March 10, 2011 at 12:45 am said:

Hey Dr, Nassef, what do you say about the Muslims (from many different countries) that segregate (for parties and meetings as well as worship) in the United States? Because they DO, you know, and they are not Saudis.
Aafke-Art, on March 10, 2011 at 1:15 am said:

Dr Nassef, please give me a simple answer to the question, without going on about Christians, America, etc.
Please just answer the question:

As a responsible doctor, what do you do to exterminate this incorrect superstition that ”If a woman doesn’t bleed on first intercourse she is not a virgin.”
gia, on March 10, 2011 at 4:14 am said:

if a girl doesn’t bleed on the wedding night, it doesn’t mean she is not a virgin, it just means the guy didn’t get the cherry on the cake. and the guy is not going to divorce her, because it was arranged, and the mom/women folk are not going to fix there sons up with some hussy. he will have trust already established, so it wouldn’t be an issue. he can go buy cherries at the store…lol
Coolred38, on March 10, 2011 at 10:50 am said:

Dr. Nassef..I was just using that as an example. I am right up to speed on cultural values thank you very much. I happened to be in an area that was mainly expats where bike riding was perfectly fine for females. Magically the 21st century had arrived in that little part of bahrain. However, the 6th century happened to go walking by and too exception to my enjoying my day in my own fashion.

Unsegregated life is about doing what you enjoy doing, minding your own business, and hoping others mind theirs.
Aafke-Art, on March 10, 2011 at 1:03 pm said:

gia, you must be very unaware of what happens in the muslim world if a husband thinks his wife was not a virgin.
You must for some reason have missed knowledge of what happens to these women.

You must for some reason miss all the fearful testimonies of Muslim girls who are not virgins and their cries for help.
You must be unaware of the business of hymen reconstructions and artificial hymens. Particularly flourishing because of Muslim customers.

“The virginity industry,” by Najlaa Abou Mehri and Linda Sills, for BBC Radio 4, April 25:

Young Arab women wait in an upmarket medical clinic for an operation that will not only change their lives, but quite possibly save it. Yet the operation is a matter of choice and not necessity. It costs about 2,000 euros (£1,700) and carries very little risk.

The clinic is not in Dubai or Cairo, but in Paris. And the surgery they are waiting for is to restore their virginity.

Whether in Asia or the Arab world, an unknown number of women face an agonising problem having broken a deep taboo. They’ve had sex outside marriage and if found out, risk being ostracised by their communities, or even murdered.

Now more and more of them are undergoing surgery to re-connect their hymens and hide any sign of past sexual activity. They want to ensure that blood is spilled on their wedding night sheets.

And these are women who know they are not virgins anymore, how about the women who belong to the 45% who won’t bleed anyway?
I read somewhere mothers give their daughter some chickenblood to secretly spill on the sheets.
Dr. Nassef, on March 10, 2011 at 1:34 pm said:

@ Aafke-Art…
Indeed, what you said is true and there is more, the only thing is that it is not the “muslim” world but the traditions of the region. NO christian woman would allow it be said about her that she had extra-marital sex nor that they have ‘less honor’ than any other in the region.
Dr. Nassef, on March 10, 2011 at 1:41 pm said:

@MoA
Actually i paid no attention to the Avatar at all, nor did i choose it .
Aafke-Art, on March 10, 2011 at 2:14 pm said:

So, dr Nassef, As a responsible doctor, what do you do to exterminate this incorrect superstition that ”If a woman doesn’t bleed on first intercourse she is not a virgin.”???
Aafke-Art, on March 10, 2011 at 2:17 pm said:

The extra value of virgins is actually supported in Islam, A divorced or widowed woman can expect only 1/3 or 1/4 of the mahr (money paid for sexual pleasure) a virgin can expect.
But then Islam is nothing if not a religious endorsement of archaic tribal customs.

But I really would like an answer to my question:
As a responsible doctor, what do you do to exterminate this incorrect superstition that ”If a woman doesn’t bleed on first intercourse she is not a virgin.”???
Dr. Nassef, on March 10, 2011 at 4:18 pm said:

@ Aafke-Art
I would first like to address these very false views you post here as if they are facts.
FIRST: Elmahr is a present to the bride to be, there is no specific value attached.
SECOND: It is irrelevant if the bride is a virgin or not. Any woman who is getting married (first or tenth time) is entitled to that ‘gift’ which i think would be translated to ‘dowry’.
Anyone who tells you anything else is either ignorant and ignorant of his/her own ignorance, or is being down right malicious.
THIRD: I find it offensive how you talk about the normal relation that we have in our families (sexual pleasure)..
FOURTH: You already know that i am a Muslim, and yet you use derogatory language when you speak of Islam. Do you mean to be insulting??
FIFTH THAT narrow minded view that those billions of muslims and middle eastern christians need your ideas to be educated is extremely ridiculous and very condescending. What you dont know is that theirs is an innate wisdom that puts any arrogance to modesty though illiterate, they are not ignorant.

Sixth: In certain regions in this wide area you will find erroneous notions no doubt, and it is a rare problem to meet that it is more talked about here, than in reality.
I trust that you will appreciate that a civil and courteous exchange is more becoming of a conversation than one that looks down on the other.
Sarah, on March 10, 2011 at 5:28 pm said:

And that is why I say that these questions are not meant to educate one self, but rather to ridicule. You see questions surfacing many times showing that nothing is learnt.
MoQ, on March 10, 2011 at 5:51 pm said:

Very interesting conversation. After all this back and forth the Dr. finally answers a simple question and it comes down to this:

“FIFTH THAT narrow minded view that those billions of muslims and middle eastern christians need your ideas to be educated is extremely ridiculous and very condescending. What you dont know is that theirs is an innate wisdom that puts any arrogance to modesty though illiterate, they are not ignorant.”

Some how the practice of checking for a virgin’s blood at wedding night is not born of ignorance, when the studies are clear that over 40% of women will not bleed. In most Middle Eastern/North African societies it is still a common expectation among grooms. In some groups the bedsheets from the wedding night is passed around as proof. An industry is thriving on the concept of virgin bleeding, but according to the Dr. there is no ignorance. Perhaps the Dr. is ignorant about the definition of the word (ignorance = Lack of information).

Regarding the notion of the wisdom of the illiterate, yes a person can be illiterate and wise on occasions. However, wisdom requires knowledge of a wide variety of topics. People who cannot read and write will find themselves at the lower end of the wisdom scale more often than not, due to lacking access to information.

So when the Dr. is asked about his responsibility in regards to educating acknowledgeable people on the technicalities of this topic to do his bit in eliminating these outdated practices, he choose to take the default “I am offended position”.

Dear Dr. N. the Middle Eastern and Islamic Societies are distanced to continue living in the dark ages, if the well educated continue to avoid taking on issues like this and deliver the people from their superstitions, ignorance and cultural hangups.

Perhaps you should consider doing something novel one of these days and taking on some responsibilities to effect change, instead of the constant defending. If you and other capable people can take on these challenges, may be some day there will not be a need for such defense.
jay kactuz, on March 10, 2011 at 8:17 pm said:

MOQ – What an idea. Change! You mean not just talk about things or make excuses, but actually change behaviours! Wow!

You know, if Muslims would change their ways – stop the hate and violence, stop discrimination against non-Muslims, treat women better, quit killing each other – then there would be no need for this endless debate on the text of the Quran and hadith, because it wouldn’t matter!
Aafke-Art, on March 10, 2011 at 8:19 pm said:

Dr Nassef, thank you for answering my question.
So you don’t use your medical expertise to fight misconceptions and superstitions, you do nothing to help Muslim women in this matter.

For those who read this thread, we have had this argument before, if you google it you will find out that in Islamic jurisprudence, and all four schools of Islam are agreed on this, Mahr, or dowry is the money the new husband owes the new wife for having sex.
Lay people will look at it more romantically, hopefully, but in Islam dowry is payment for sex.
You will also find that a virgin can command a much higher payment for sexual access than a widowed or divorced woman, thereby making a statement that the market value of virgin women is much higher than experienced women.
Lynn, on March 10, 2011 at 8:54 pm said:

‘You see questions surfacing many times showing that nothing is learnt’

Yes, probably because we don’t GET answers but rather usually it’s accusations of ignorance, hate, Islamophobia etc.
oby, on March 10, 2011 at 10:12 pm said:

aafke…a quick google has not pulled it up…do you have a link by chance? Thanks
Aafke-Art, on March 10, 2011 at 11:54 pm said:

I put up a link on another thread when we talked about the same issue
, I am really busy, I don’t want to look for it myself.
Aafke-Art, on March 10, 2011 at 11:57 pm said:

Why can’t you find it? It’s all over the web?
http://www.islamswomen.com/extras/print/pdf/IslamsWomen_Rulings_Regarding_Mahr.pdf
\
Harry Guggen, on March 11, 2011 at 12:08 am said:

Re: IslamsWomen_Rulings_Regarding_Mahr.pdf

Oh my! Everything revolves around intercourse/sex
in Islam -
Aafke-Art, on March 11, 2011 at 12:18 am said:

Ok, had to look around a bit. Read this last year on STW, an eye opener, lots of jurisprudence to look up in here:

The word niqah means only ”marriage” in the marriage document. In all other use of the word in arabic language it means ”penetration”

The fact that Mahr is meant as money paid for sex follows from the following:
- there should be no sex until the promised mahr has been paid fully, although some modern women ask for only part of their mahr, the rest to be paid in case of divorce.
Don’t forget that her mahr is the only provision a wife will have in case of divorce.
-Although some scholars say that the mahr should be paid after consummation.
-In case of death before consummation the widow will have to give back half the mahr to the family of the diseased husband.
-In case of no consummation her guardian can also forgive all the mahr
-It is haram to enjoy relations with a wife and then deny her the mahr when she demands (sounds very much like sex for money doesn’t it?)
-

One author of the Hanafi School defines the mahr as “the money, which is obligatory on the husband in ikd al-nikah (the marriage contract) for manafi’ al-bid’ (sexual pleasure). (See ibn al-Hamam, Sharih Fath al-Qadeer, vol. 3, p. 304, Arabic version).

The Hanbali School of jurisprudence defines mahr as “the money paid by the husband for the purpose of nikah (marriage). (See ibn Kadamah, Al-Mughni, vol. 6, p. 679, Arabic version).

The Malike and Shafi’i Schools defines the mahr as “the money due to the future wife in return for [the husband’s] haqq al-isstimta’ (sexual pleasure) in the marriage contract”. (See al-Hattab Muhammad bin Abdel Rahman al-Mughrabi, Mawahib al-Jalil li-Sharh Mukhtassar Khalil, vol. 5, p. 172-Maliki Jurisprudence). For Shafi’i School see al-Nawawi, Kitab al-Majmu’, vol. 18 p. 605). All these references are cited by Sheikh Mahmud Muhammad al-Sheikh, Al-Mahr fi Al-Islam bayna al-madi wal-hadir, published by al-Maktaba al-Assriyya liltibaa’a wal nashr, Beirut, Lebanon, 2003, Arabic version.
The Maliki and Shafi’i Schools of jurisprudence regard the mahr as “the money paid for the future wife in return for sexual pleasure is an integral part of the Islamic marriage contract and its source is prescribed in the Qur’an

The Maliki School regards a marriage to be legal if it was consummated. If the marriage was not consummated, then the marriage is mafsookh (a reason for separation); if he divorces his wife without any agreement on the mahr issue, then he has to pay her mut’ah (money paid to her in return for the sexual pleasure he had with her). But if he dies before any agreement reached between the couple, then the wife is entitled to inherit her share from his estate.

So many myths on the internet, so many times one has to write the same thing.
I do fully see why normal modern couples don’t want to look at their marriage in this way. And I think that is very healthy. Some of my friends considered their wedding ring their mahr. I think that’s great.
But when you talk about religion about what the scholars of religion have to say about it it is very clear: the payment of mahr means payment by the man to the woman for the sex he has had with her.
And I fully agree that that leaves a nasty taste in the mouth. I can fully understand if Muslims want to push those things out of their conscious minds, but I don’t like it if somebody comes onto a forum and then puts out misinformation about it.
Let’s remain honest.
oby, on March 11, 2011 at 12:42 am said:

Aafke…

I didn’t mean to ask you to go find it yourself. I thought you might have the link handy. I looked and found PLENTY on mahr but nothing except one blog that stated it was anything other than a gift. No mention of sex at all. all the rest said it was a gift…a way of giving women equality…protection in case of divorce etc.

sorry if it was a big search for you…didn’t mean to send you to look for it, but I appreciate the efforts.
Aafke-Art, on March 11, 2011 at 12:52 am said:

Yes you asked me for a link.

I’m quite sure I put up a link last yearof an Islamic site where they have a list of different scholars of the different schools. It should be somewhere on bedu.

How much protection would mahr be? What does a virgin bring these days? How many years of upkeep, in a decent house, food, taxes, clothes, vacations, schooling to find a job, etc. How much money does one get for how many years of survival?…
I think I prefer a proper maintenance deal.
Aafke-Art, on March 11, 2011 at 1:01 am said:

“the money, which is obligatory on the spouse in ikd al-nikah (the nuptials shrink) for manafi’ al-bid’ (sexual pleasure). (See ibn al-Hamam, Sharih Fath al-Qadeer, vol. 3, p. 304, Arabic story).

The Malike and Shafi’i Schools defines the mahr as “the money due to the impending husband in revisit for [the companion’s] haqq al-isstimta’ (sexual pleasure) in the nuptials deal”. (See al-Hattab Muhammad bin Abdel Rahman al-Mughrabi, Mawahib al-Jalil li-Sharh Mukhtassar Khalil, vol. 5, p. 172-Maliki Jurisprudence). For Shafi’i School see al-Nawawi, Kitab al-Majmu’, vol. 18 p. 605). All these references are cited by Sheikh Mahmud Muhammad al-Sheikh, Al-Mahr fi Al-Islam bayna al-madi wal-hadir, published by al-Maktaba al-Assriyya liltibaa’a wal nashr, Beirut, Lebanon, 2003, Arabic form.

The Maliki and Shafi’i Schools of jurisprudence watch the mahr as “the money rewarded for the impending partner in revisit for sexual pleasure is an essential part of the Islamic wedding contracr and it’s mine is prescribed in the Qur’an. Sura al-Nissaa reads the next:
“Fa ma isstamta’tum bihi minhunn fa aatoohunna ujoorahunna” (So for that pleasure which you have enjoyed from them, give them their prescribed compensation). Qur’an 4: 25

http://islamic-rituals.blogspot.com/2010/06/mahr-marriages-in-islam.html
Aafke-Art, on March 11, 2011 at 1:11 am said:

http://www.articlerich.com/Article/The-Mahr-in-Islam/567706

It seems they all copy paste, the ones who talk about the actual Islamic jurisprudence use the bit I paste-copied above, the ones who talk about a ”gift” and swerve around the actual issue use a piece written by a western convert to Islam.

And the first link I posted mentions the rules, and as Harry noticed it is all related to sex.
When mahr has to be paid. when it has to be returned, when it is returned half, all depend if sex has taken place or not.

So you may choose to cover the issue with roses, but underneath lies still the naked truth: Mahr is obligatory to the husband to pay for sexual pleasure.

And I don’t like it either.
oby, on March 11, 2011 at 1:15 am said:

well…the one blog I saw stated that a man signed a promisorry note for $100,000 dollars payable to the wife upon divorce. Her father had the papers drawn up(here in the USA)Nice sum of cash…but it stated that the groom later tried to have the agreement nullified as he signed it under duress!
oby, on March 11, 2011 at 1:24 am said:

I wonder how something like that duress issue would play out…might be treated as a personal contract as there is no sharia to rule in that case…
Aafke-Art, on March 11, 2011 at 12:03 pm said:

But considering the absence of rights women have when it really comes down to it, I think such a provision is a safety net, so the man cant back down on his previous promises, like cheating by marrying other women, or blackmailing her to do so, or taking her children away. After all, it’s on divorce, and he wants to back out of it? Maybe he has already plans not to keep to his part of the deal.

But having thought about it, i now see why men are so pissed if they think they don’t have a virgin. They are the ones who pay for the goods, after all the market value of a virgin is a lot higher, and if they pay top-price they don’t want to be fobbed off with second hand goods!

And there’s really no way to tell if a woman is a virgin or not.
gia, on March 11, 2011 at 12:23 pm said:

princess diana had to be a virgin. that’s why charlie boy married her, because he knew she was. they are not muslim. she had to go to his dr to get virgin confirmed.
Aafke-Art, on March 11, 2011 at 2:01 pm said:

Ah, fallacy-time again: the ”they did it too” non-sequitur.
gia, on March 12, 2011 at 12:22 pm said:

hehe…nice reply.
Rosemary, on March 20, 2011 at 12:08 am said:

I do hope this is the “Dear Bedu” page and not the “Debate” as I have a question for Bedu.

Recently I was reading a book from Darusalam and was appalled at the horrible spelling and grammar mistakes. I wondered what it takes to be an editor here in Saudi because by the looks of that book the editor herself didn’t know much English, sorry to say!

I do not have any experience with editing but have found myself very interested in becoming one. How could I go about finding editing jobs here in Riyadh? I have googled this but haven’t found much to my liking. I do not know Arabic so I couldn’t translate but I wouldn’t mind trying my hand at some freelance work editing already translated material? Please could you help me find information about such jobs? Thank you.
Coolred38, on March 20, 2011 at 12:27 am said:

Apparently Darusalam hasn’t got a bonafide English speaking/grammar correcting staff member on its payroll as you would be hard pressed to find a book from them with proper English and grammar.

Then again, that goes for many many hadith books I have read as well as other religious writings. I can’t fathom why they bother to take the time to write such things and print them out, but cant be bothered to hire a proofreader/editor?
Rosemary, on March 20, 2011 at 12:51 am said:

Coolred, ok then shall I ring up Darusalam and try my luck with them? It’s almost surely a shoo-in, right!?:)
American Bedu, on March 20, 2011 at 5:44 am said:

Rosemary,

visit the women’s skills bureau web site (interviewed on blog) and submit your desires, interests and skills. Many Saudi students completing applications and writing papers for admission to US/western universities generally engage an editor to help.
Christina, on March 21, 2011 at 8:34 am said:

Dear Bedu,
I’ve have been reading your blog for awhile and I fully enjoy it. I will be graduating from the University of Oregon in June. I will have completed 3rd year Arabic and I am looking for a job in Saudi or the Middle East. I am particularly interested in teaching. I have checked teachsaudi.com and teachmideast.com. What troubles me is that a lot are recruiters and I am not sure what is legitimate. I was wondering if you had any advice or tips for me?
Riette, on March 22, 2011 at 9:46 am said:

Dear Bedu

I am from South Africa and have been living and working in Jeddah for 4 months. Now I have been invited to visit a new Saudi friend I have made. However, I am not sure what the important cultural do’s and don’t are…
My friend is a widow, and a working woman. She is highly educated, and lives by herself with three children. A thoroughly modern woman in Saudi terms!
She does veil though, and is conservative with religious observances. I really want to treat my new friend with respect. My daughter and I will be visiting without my husband. Please give me some advice!
Rosemary, on March 23, 2011 at 1:24 am said:

Dear AB,

I live in Riyadh. I often overhear my neighbors fighting in my apartment building. I have no idea what is being said because I do not know a lot of Arabic. Last year there was a Syrian couple that would fight every night without fail. While in my bedroom, I could literally hear this man hitting his wife and her crying in pain. I realize this may seem to be an exaggeration but for anyone who has lived in small apartments they can vouch for what I’m saying; you can often hear more than you’d like from your neighbors.

After about a week of listening to this, with my limited Arabic I visited this lady and exchanged numbers. Later I also visited her in her home a few times. I always told her if she ever needed help with anything she could call me. She never did and I never once saw a bruise on her so I suspect her husband was clever in that regard (the animal that he is).

I asked my husband to make a formal complaint about them with the owner of the building in the hopes that it would help the lady. Two days later, my neighbor rang my bell informing me they were moving. I felt I’d failed her. No one helped her. Her husband probably moved her to another building where no one would complain of the noise. She was young, 21 to be exact, with two children. She was so kind and I wish to this day we would have exchanged mobile numbers but we did not because she was in such a rush when she stopped by. I continue to pray for her.

Since then, we of course had new neighbors move in. I however have yet to meet them. Sadly I hear fighting again. I am now concerned for the safety of this new neighbor’s teenage girl. I never hear a man’s voice so I suspect either there is no man of the house or this is occurring when he is out. I only hear the mother and daughter fighting and their screaming is bone chilling. I can actually hear the smack sounds when this mother is hitting her child. It is so loud you would think they were standing next to me but I am in my own home usually in my kitchen when I hear them.

This has been going on for at least a year now and it seems to be getting worse. I have asked my husband many times if he could make another complaint but he said he is reluctant to do this again given that we had already done so for the Syrian couple. To make matters worse he has asked me to not get involved and to not visit this neighbor. I disagree with this and often when my husband is not at home if I happen to hear the fighting I will send one of my children downstairs to ring their doorbell in the hopes this will force them to stop. I have even personally rang their doorbell, fully prepared to greet whomever answered the door yet alas they decided to ignore me and not open.

It brings me great pain knowing someone is right next door to me being harmed and I can do nothing to help them.

Again I have no idea what is the nature of their arguments and I don’t care. That lady needs to leave her girl alone and they both need help. I have debated on calling the police but communication would be a problem for me.

How can I help them? Is there someone I can contact and somehow pass this information on to this young girl discreetly? Although honestly I have no idea how I would do that but I could try. With all my heart I want to help this young girl and even her mother (in spite of how wicked she sounds).

In the UK/US there are hotlines or organizations for those who are being abused to call for help. Is there something similar here in Saudi? Do they have advertisements of such to inform the public?

I hope you can help.
Tiffany, on April 6, 2011 at 4:45 am said:

Do Saudi queens have any power? I never ever hear about them….who are they anyway?
American Bedaweeya, on April 17, 2011 at 2:25 pm said:

What a great blog!! Love it!
um reina, on April 30, 2011 at 12:53 am said:

dear bedu,
i hope u would remember me.
i am a lebanese married to a saudi from (qaseem). i have one daughter.
can i please know when i am entitled to obtain my saudi citizenship?what are the legal procedures?are there any costs?who do i contact?what are the required procedures?please assisst me.thank u
American Bedu, on April 30, 2011 at 11:25 pm said:

Dear Um Reina,

Your Saudi husband is the one who has to start the proceeding for you to obtain Saudi citizenship. Minimal requirements are generally at least 5 years of residence in Saudi Arabia.

Let me know if you have any additional questions. You really need to talk to your husband on this subject.

Best Regards, Bedu
Rosemary, on May 1, 2011 at 12:50 am said:

Bedu, you never responded to me above. Are you unable to help?
American Bedu, on May 1, 2011 at 2:27 am said:

Dear Rosemary,

I had written a long reply when you first posted your query and now I see it did not make it into the comments.

Here is an earlier post which does refer to some resources and numbers:

http://americanbedu.com/2008/07/05/what-should-a-woman-do-in-the-kingdom-if-she-needs-help/

You have raised a difficult and very sensitive issue. Issues, to include abuse, are known to be kept “hidden” within families. I think knocking when you hear sounds of slapping or voices raised in fear (among females) is not a bad idea. At least you are letting them know that you hear. However it would be very useful to know just what you are hearing (when words are spoken) before going forward and making a phone call to report on an issue as serious as abuse.
fondue, on May 3, 2011 at 11:10 pm said:

Dear Bedu:

do you think there is any demand for language teachers besides english? (for example french, spanish, german, italian) or are saudis mainly interested in learning and speaking english?
Rosemary, on May 4, 2011 at 10:11 am said:

Thanks for responding Bedu. I realize it would be more useful if I knew what my neighbors were arguing about but I unfortunately do not know much Arabic. The only words I am able to pick out from the mother and daughter is the mother calling her daughter names like “animal, dog” (hayawanah, kalbah) and she says “haram alaik” a lot. Her daughter screams “walahi” (by Allah) a lot and sobs so much it’s heartbreaking.

I know these few words that I do understand isn’t much to go on but I believe it is a form of abuse just by hearing the smacking sounds alone regardless of what topic they’re fighting about. One day I did in fact record their fighting on my mobile but then I deleted it when I realized I didn’t have anyone (who would not judge me) to translate their words. And sadly now that they realize I can hear them, they (I assume the mother) has taken to slamming their kitchen window shut (when they begin to fight) and this is where I was able to hear them so clearly. I can still hear them just not as well as before.

Just the other day they were at it again and I really had to stop myself from pounding on their door. Because at this point I have rang their door bell so many times when I hear their arguing, it is no longer stopping them, they just ignore me and they still don’t open the door.

Maybe it seems strange for me to want to get involved. I suppose it stems from the trouble I had with my own abusive mother. I just want to help this young girl. No one helped me but maybe I can help her even if indirectly.

I am working on finding out if my other neighbors know this family and any anything about their situation. Again this will not be easy. I know I am not the only person in this building who has heard this arguing but as you mentioned it isn’t easy to get people to speak out about family abuse.

I will look on the link you provided for a number so at the very least I can somehow pass this info on to that young girl and then if she is brave enough she can perhaps call them herself. Allah help her indeed.
American Bedu, on May 5, 2011 at 3:07 am said:

@Fondue:

English is the language highest in demand among Saudis however other language training is of interest too. I’m not sure if you are seeking an official sponsored language position or freelancing but just wanted to add that various language programs are of interest to Saudis and expatriate community too.

@Rosemary:

Please email me directly at admin@americanbedu.com.
maria, on July 18, 2011 at 10:26 pm said:

Dear Bedu
First of all, I want to say what a wonderful job u are doing it in helping everybody who is somehow involved with a Saudi or Saudi Arabia.

I am writing you because I have been in a relationship with a Saudi for 2 years now. I am 27 and he is 28. I am a teacher and he is doing his master degree here in the USA.

As I see that his study time is coming to an end, I have been bringing up the subject about what is he going to do once his study time is over here.

He cannot give me an straight answer. He had not been in Saudi Arabia for 3 and half year. Now, he is there for 3 months.
He asked me to wait until he comes back to make a decision on our relationship.

Although he talks to me in Skype almost everyday, I am afraid his trip back, brings him back to a more traditional type of man.

He says he is going to Mecca with his mother now in August, which I think it must be crazy with the hit

Is there anything special that Muslims can do in Mecca during the summer time?

Will I be waiting for nothing?

I guess the reason I am writing is just to get any opinion or feedback from you and all your readers out there in what it seems to be a pretty common situation nowadays.

Thank you so much for making this possible.

Sincerely,
Maria
Christina, on July 19, 2011 at 1:12 am said:

Maria,
I have also dated a Saudi guy while he was studying and there were a few things that alarmed me about your letter. Although with out knowing your boyfriend I can not tell you for sure about his intentions. Although after two years your Saudi guy should have already decided if he wants to marry you or not. Saudi culture is not like the U.S. people do not date for long periods of time. If he doesn’t want to marry you now after two years he likely will not change his mind in two more years. If he is serious about having a future with you he will introduce you via the internet to his mother. Also Saudi students on scholarship are not allowed to marry non Saudi women. Your boyfriend knows this. Also it is likely that his scholarship requires him to work for the Saudi government in Saudi Arabia for a certain time period after graduation. He will likely not be allowed by the Saudi or U.S. government to stay in the U.S. after he graduates. You also can not go to Saudi Arabia unless you have a marriage that is recognized by the Saudi government which can take years and thousands of dollars to obtain. From experience I have a feeling that your Saudi does not want to talk about what will happen after graduation because he knows you won’t like what he has to say.

If you are going to stay with this guy I highly recommend that you start learning Arabic and about Islam, and his culture. No matter how liberal
he seems in America he will always be a Saudi. Islam will likely always be a major part of his life and lives of any children you two might have.

Also this year August is the holy month of Ramadan so he might be going for religious reasons or if his mother has family in Mecca that could be another reason for the visit. There is nothing unusual about going to Mecca in the summer,
Christina, on July 19, 2011 at 1:13 am said:

Also I don’t mean to scare you or be harsh. I had to deal with the exact same issues.
maria, on July 19, 2011 at 2:26 am said:

thank you very much for your honesty. That is exactly what I was looking for. I really appreciate your time in answering me.
Aafke-Art, on July 19, 2011 at 2:59 am said:

An important point is have you been introduced to his mother? If he is serious he will have introduced you to his mother, sisters, and maybe other female relations. He will have told them to stop looking for a bride for him as he has made a choice already.
If he has introduced you to male friends and family members instead of his mother he is most probably not serious about any future but is showing you off. ”Look what I got: a western girlfriend!”

I consider it a bad sign that he has not told you of the restrictions to marriage. I think at the moment it would take at least 5 years and lots of influence and lots of money and you still might not get permission to marry. Of course this would not be necessary if you both were to live outside Saudi Arabia.

I think it very unfair to expect a free modern western women to live in his extremely restricted, over-religious, and extremely misogynist society. In KSA, as a woman, you will be most defenitely a second class human. As a western whore (sorry that is what they think about western women) and a non-muslim you will be despised. You will be without human rights. As a woman you will literally be the property of your husband, and if something happens to him the property of a male relative.
As property you cannot leave the country without written permission of your male owner or even his personal assurance at the airport. If something bad happens to you there is no help for you, no way out. Children are always the property of the man and his family, never of the woman. Do you realize all this?
I think it is incredibly unfair to expect a person to give up personal freedom and all human rights when you could just as well live in another country, where he will have far, far less to give up as you would have to do.

If you have not been introduced to his female relatives, and have not been welcomed by them (which would be extremely unusual) I don’t think there is any future in your relationship anyway.
To be honest I think your boyfriend was very well aware of the temporary nature of your relationship and is trying to avoid having to talk about it, until he has finished his studies and has moved back to KSA. If he hasn’t put an end to the relationship by that time he will probably stay in contact for a while, be very sad and complain about how he misses you etc. until he gets married to the real proper virginal pious religious Saudi girl his female relatives may have already chosen for him.
StrangeOne, on July 19, 2011 at 7:07 am said:

Maria,
Why is he coming back to the US?

Considering he is working on a Master’s degree, it is possible he may already be engaged to someone else. However, generally speaking the Saudi males I know want to wait until they have a good salary and means to support a wife including a nice house/apartment, car, etc. for the area in which they will be living. This may be before, during, or after starting a master’s program. They do get a good salary as a student to live off of, but in at least one case I know of, the person wanted to be able to further supplement the student income before marriage. Typically, their time studying abroad is their time to have fun in ways they will not be allowed to upon returning home. Some also will put off marriage for this reason.

How he feels about you and whether or not you are important to him is not something that I feel has been made clear by what you have said about him. However, if he doesn’t bring up marriage before he comes back AND introduces you to his family, then I would really reconsider the relationship.

Is he wanting you to wait on the relationship until he comes back because he is planning to tell his family, or is he wanting you to wait because he is unsure of what he is going to do about your relationship? Or is it because he is going to get married to someone else and thinks it would be easier to tell you after the marriage?

Each person is different, and you know him better than us so trust your judgement and don’t let your feelings override your head and gut instincts, either.

I also am a bit concerned about how easy or difficult it may be to get marriage approval in KSA as others have brought up already. I am not sure on all the details, but I believe if they break the contract regarding returning home to work after receiving a scholarship, they are required to pay a large fine. So I think it is possible to get out of it, but I am not sure on all the details myself. It is something you may want to look into out of curiosity or for just peace of mind.
StrangeOne, on July 19, 2011 at 7:30 am said:

oh, and by “generally speaking the Saudi males I know want to wait until” should be “generally speaking the Saudi males I know want to wait to get MARRIED until “. They may get engaged before they ever leave home to come to the US. It just depends on the family, individual, age of the person, etc. from what I can tell. (Sorry about the all-caps; couldn’t remember how to do italics.)
Sandy, on July 19, 2011 at 9:18 am said:

When he comes back- if he did not bring up the topic of you to his family- that is not a good sign at all. He should be making a decision now. I would also ask directly if he is already married or engaged. Generally, I don’t think it is a good idea to marry a Saudi man and live in Saudi. The culture is so different and you will have no legal rights. This becomes very important as soon as kids or if for any reason (he takes a second wife) you wish to leave.
maria, on July 19, 2011 at 1:32 pm said:

Once again, thank you Aafke,Strangeone and Sandy for your comments. That is kind of what I think inside of me already.

He has never asked me anything about going to live in Saudi Arabia. He knows I could never handle living there. He talks more about the possibility of getting a job and a green card in the USA.

I guess the issue here is can he actually “live” the real life in the USA? not as a student but as a real and normal worker?…. I am assuming life in Saudi is much easier because if u don’t get a job u can always rely on your HUGE family………

He is in Saudi on vacation and to renew his visa which he already got approved.
He has to come back because he still have one year and a half to finish his master.

Again, thank you all very much for taking the time to answer. I really appreciate your comments.
Aafke-Art, on July 19, 2011 at 2:53 pm said:

One thing is certain, it’s a hundred times easier for him to live in America than it is for you to live in KSA.
But it may not even be possible for him to stay in America, and he will have debts to pay, and it is unlikely his family will agree to him living in America, and the family is far more important, will have far more influence than you.

I’d be interested to hear what happens when he comes back.
maria, on July 19, 2011 at 4:40 pm said:

I know. I will see what happens when he comes back which is going to be in 1 month or more.

But…. I kind of have a feeling that this is not going to end well
American Bedu, on July 19, 2011 at 5:44 pm said:

Hi Maria,

He has probably returned to Saudi to renew his visa and spend Ramadan (which is in August) with his family. That can also be a good time for him to bring up his intentions where you are concerned; at least he can introduce you to his family.

Take the relationship slow and don’t try to rush anything. You said he’ll be returning to complete his Masters which gives time to discuss options. However as already pointed out, you should ask him if he is married or engaged since he is at that prime age.

All the best, Carol
StrangeOne, on July 19, 2011 at 10:09 pm said:

Maria,
I agree with Carol about giving it time and not rushing anything. While most Saudi men plan to return home after finishing their studies in the US, there are a few that I have met that would be more than capable of making a living in the US, and would also be willing to do so with the right incentives. Some families are also much more open than others, which can also make a difference. You’ve been with him this long, what is another month or two?

I don’t know how it is with your significant other’s family, but with a lot of Arab men, having a good job is just as important to them as it is to an American family. For instance, two weeks after I came home from graduation, my Saudi ex asked me why I hadn’t started applying for jobs yet and what was I waiting around for? Needless to say, I had some choice words for him. A good job for him in the US could mean good international experience on his resume. However, most want to return home to the lifestyle they are used to and to be near their family (same as many other international students).

Besides, you have time now to enjoy being on your own. Go enjoy time with your friends, more time to yourself, etc. now while you have the chance. Don’t worry too much over what you have no control over. Might as well make the most of the time you have now, right? Give it time and see how everything goes when he comes back.

If you haven’t started learning already, maybe now is the time to learn at least a few basic phrases in Arabic? It’s not too difficult to learn- it just takes practice.
maria, on July 19, 2011 at 10:51 pm said:

Thank you very much American Bedu and Strangeone.
Well, I have already asked him in several occasions about if he is engaged or married which he keeps telling me that he is not.
……..and there is no way for me to find out. I can just believe him or not.
you are right… this is a good time for me to be alone but it is just the uncertainty of what is going to happen what keeps me thinking about this.

Before he left, I told him to make up his mind. He had not been in his country for a long time so, I wanted him to go and experience life there again and think of our relationship from that perspective.

He knows I will make a decision as a soon as he is back because I do not want to keep wasting my time or spending more time in a relationship that is just going to bring me sadness at the end.

YOu are all amazing. Thank you for the advises and the support.
God bless you all!
laamericana, on August 11, 2011 at 10:26 am said:

Hi, I am a nurse. Recently met a doctor on a trip from the same hospital. He was born in the U.S. but raised in Saudia Arabia, visited the U.S. yearly, but moved here four years ago for medical school. Anyways, we have a date tomorrow night. He is muslim and so I started to look up cultural differences and came across this site. Of course, before even going on a date, now I am concerned.

On the trip, we had a great time, but I guess now I see it is unusual that he is asking me on a dinner/movie date and is coming to pick me up.

I don’t know if he was here on scholarship or if he is planning to stay in the U.S., I never asked but intend to do so over dinner and before any subsequent dates. But I see so many unhappy postings, I wonder what are the chances of something like this working? How many successful relationships are there between an independent woman like myself and a Saudi man?
maria, on August 11, 2011 at 6:39 pm said:

Hello everyone……
well this is Maria with some updates from my case….. I just found out that my boyfriend got a 5 years visa………

I wonder why does the US government give students visa for 5 years when he only has about 1 to 2 years to finish his master?

Are they thinking that students will go on with farther studies or they will get a job in the USA?

MY boyfriend asked me if I was happy about the fact that he got a 5 years visa but…… to be honest….. 1, 2 or 5 years, there is always the risk of he leaving at the end of this period of time…….

Once again, thanks everybody who has giving me an advice…..
American Bedu, on August 12, 2011 at 11:00 pm said:

Dear Maria,

That is great news! Yes; it is pretty standard for the embassy to issue a 5 year visa. It does not imply another committments.
StrangeOne, on August 13, 2011 at 5:01 am said:

Maria,
I heard from a Saudi friend that the US either at one point had started or were going to start make Saudi students renew every year. When Saudi Arabia threatened to do the same to Americans working, etc. in Saudi Arabia, then the US and Saudi Arabia eventually agreed on the longer visa time period. Mind you, this is what I remember hearing of a Saudi’s point of view. 5 years is standard for students or business visas, from what I can remember when I looked up the info about a year ago. I am not sure of the logic behind the 5 year visa other than sometimes, it takes 5 years to get a “4-year” degree.
Tina, on August 13, 2011 at 5:23 am said:

Most Saudis spend a year studying in an esl program before they enter an actual university for four years.
Azad Ali Shah, on August 13, 2011 at 8:39 am said:

Now that Saudi Arabia has manny very smart, bright, educated female journalists, why not have them challenge and rebuke Jean Sasson along with other untruth that comes so regular from the West. Call their bluff, why don’t you! Let them sit up and take notice, ward them off.
——————————————————-

Dear Monika,

Somehow I could see this topic just today . May be generally I do not follow up topics due to personal engagements.

If u are reading stil -

As a Muslim, I may give some idea. What I am saying is the general perception and thinking of common Muslims about these writings and of course doesnt represent 100% Muslim women or Muslim population.

As we know negative things sell more. I believe its not only about Saudi Arabia but particularly about Muslims women in any Muslim country, people try to write bad things with the story created like play or tv serial or like some bollywood story. And they can make it realistic. After all perception is real even though its not reality. Some do it for money, some do for personal interest, some do for hatred, some do for other reason. Sometimes, a Muslim can be shocked to read these things. Many writings doesnt have an iota of truth, many other have a few points which are true but spiced it up to make it 100% real, many other are exception but shown as general norm. If u see maximum negative writings about Muslims/Islams, particularly Muslim women are not from real Muslims or Muslim women but from those non-Muslims who even havent met a single Muslim man or woman in their lives. As we know tell a lie 100 times by 100 people and tell a truth by one person 100 times, first one will be considered truth and later will be considered lie. I do not say that all r shining like stars and there is no dark side at all. But sincerely speaking, I have never ever seen such horrible news about Muslims/Muslims women in my 30 years of life – born and brought up in Muslims family, Muslim locality, Muslim neighbor, Muslim society, who have sisters, mothers, aunties, cousin sisters, many other women in neighbor, interact with women every other day in day to day life, so many Muslim gals in school, college, University. I havent seen the news I hear in my real life. And a single exceptional case doesnt represent entire Muslim world or Muslim women’s community.

Regarding why Saudi Muslim women or Muslim doesnt write back against those bad and fake writings? Its too much in numbers ..may be in millions…just google “Muslim women’s life” or “Suffering of Muslim women” or anything negative about Muslim women’s treatment, how many pages comes up in seconds.

Unfortunately, even though are many sincere western media publication, common Muslims have come up such negative idea that how can west write good things about Muslims or Muslim women or Islam? So, they already feel that no good will be written about them. And have made such negative conclusion that its the norm to write bad things about Muslim women/Islam/Muslim. They think there is no point in giving some clarification or refute the writings. They also think that no one will take their refutations or counter writing seriously. That’s the reason why they feel that there is no point in writing back. Even though these perceptions of Muslims may be wrong, one will find millions of non-Muslims who havent heard single good thing about Muslim/Muslim women/Islam.
American Bedu, on August 13, 2011 at 3:31 pm said:

I would welcome seeing more Saudi female journalists writing and writing either fiction or non-fiction.
maria, on August 16, 2011 at 11:00 pm said:

Thank you Dear Bedu and everyone else who took the time to comment. I really appreciate your feedback.

Dear Bedu, I am sorry if this is an incorrect question. I was just curious if you ever converted to Islam or not.

Once again, my apologize if I am not being polite.

Thank you very much for all your support!
Alia, on August 19, 2011 at 6:42 pm said:

Hi, I am Saudi , I was really touched that you consider Saudi Arabia your second home .By the way I am a Montessori teacher in Jeddah .
Wish you all the best and I will log on to see your blog.
Lada, on August 24, 2011 at 1:02 pm said:

Dear Carol,

Our Saudi friends just had a baby boy yesterday, it is their fourth child. I was wondering what are the customary gifts you give to the baby and the family? Is it the same as in US, some baby clothes and toys or there any special protocol has to be followed?
Thank you for your help.
mnm11, on September 20, 2011 at 3:33 am said:

dear bedu,

is it normal in saudi culture for children to call their grandmother umi? my husband and his mom are teaching my daughter this, and its disturbing to me as i am the umi. he told me that this is a form of respect shown to all old women in saudi. is that true? thanks!
American Bedu, on September 20, 2011 at 7:26 pm said:

Umi means “Mom” in Arabic and is what I call my Saudi mother-in-law. Jeddah is the word for Grandmother. However in my Saudi family grandchildren referred to their Grandmothers as “Mama” followed by their first name.

I know when addressing an older man or woman to whom one is not related they are usually called Uncle (first name) or Auntie (first name).

Each Saudi family will have their own traditions which they follow.
Sandy, on September 20, 2011 at 11:54 pm said:

@Alia- I think we’re related! LOL!
Sandy, on September 20, 2011 at 11:56 pm said:

Carol, have you ever done a post on whether Saudi women can successfully seek asylum in Western countries do to human rights concerns? I would be interested to know more about that. I know so many that are “stuck” but could they get asylum if they managed to get out and asked?
American Bedu, on September 20, 2011 at 11:59 pm said:

Good question, Sandy. I think Ali can probably answer that question better. I’d have to do research and get back to you.
radhaa, on September 21, 2011 at 1:59 am said:

Carol/sandy – As of a decade ago the answer to that would be NO. We tried something of that sort for one of my SIL’s ( J) but it didn’t pan out and we got a visa finally…Long story short i don’t think “stuck” is a good enough argument, your life must be in imminent danger with certain other qualification from what i remember.

hopefully all that has changed nowadays .
Sandy, on September 21, 2011 at 2:06 am said:

I think Adult women being stuck in a house, not allowed to go out, work, exercise, get an education, spend their money, have their children, perhaps being hit, unable to get a divorce etc, should be grounds. Ah but the world isn’t “fair” and alot of what “should” isn’t.
Coolred38, on September 21, 2011 at 2:45 am said:

Sandy…my journalist friend in Bahrain, that is being persecuted right along with any other journalist that doesnt bow to the royal regime and kiss serious ass, has attempted to seek asylum in the US and they flatly refused her. Even though journalist have died in custody recently in Bahrain and even though she has had her income stopped as punishment (what is she supposed to live on yet if she quits they will sue her) and and and….apparently your life being endanger gets you nowhere when the country in question is an ally of the states.
Sandy, on September 21, 2011 at 3:25 am said:

Thanks for the info Coolred. I hope your friend and all the others in danger will be alright. I hate the way US policy overlooks human rights violations from our allies. I had hoped things had changed.

If anyone is aware of a more hopeful situation in other western countries please let us know.
susanne430, on September 21, 2011 at 5:17 am said:

Syria isn’t an ally and I know of a family refused asylum here. Germany may be more helpful. I heard they won’t send back the Syrians there already if they choose not to return due to the uprisings there. Not sure if they will accept new folks though.
Kari, on September 23, 2011 at 11:55 pm said:

Dear Bedu,
I am a U.S. single female who has been offered a job as a contractor to Aramco. Normally, I would be elated to become an expat; however, I’ve met the man of my dreams and he recently proposed. We have been told he is not allowed to live on the compound with me. Things are not yet finalized, but it’s looking like I will go to KSA for a year while he stays here in the States. I cannot find anything on the internet about professional women’s experiences, just those of expat-wives. Is there any advice you would give me, or references? I have read extensively about the no driving, the abaya, the luxuries of life on the compound, etc. I’m just wondering how I may be perceived/treated by Saudis. (I intend to wear my engagement ring always.) ~ Thanks!
Pickoo, on September 27, 2011 at 5:16 pm said:

Hi I am an Indian female 24 yrs old and I would like to visit Saudi. Is it possible to obtain tourist visa? And also find a place to stay there. Would you recommend me on how to go about this.
American Bedu, on September 27, 2011 at 7:39 pm said:

@Kari:

Here are some earlier posts I have written which you may find helpful:

http://americanbedu.com/2011/07/18/saudi-arabia-jen-speaks-out-on-being-an-expat-woman-in-riyadh/

http://americanbedu.com/2010/12/09/saudi-arabia-what-challenges-do-expats-face/

http://americanbedu.com/2009/10/18/saudi-arabia-and-where-the-single-expat-woman-can-live/

http://americanbedu.com/2009/06/10/are-there-limitations-on-expat-women-in-saudi-arabia/

http://americanbedu.com/2007/10/18/working-in-the-kingdom-as-an-ex-pat-woman/

I hope these links to earlier posts help you. I’d like to also add that Aramco is very Westernized and I am sure you will be made most welcomed by any of the Saudis you meet there.

Best Regards,
Carol
American Bedu, on September 27, 2011 at 8:46 pm said:

@Pickoo: Saudi Arabia is not geared for tourism to single females. The chances of obtaining a visa without an official sponsor such as for work are slim.

There is some group tourism but I am not aware of any members who are single females. They are usually couples.
bri, on October 9, 2011 at 2:12 pm said:

Hello Carol I’m once again back in KSA . I have a request that I think you could help me on. I am aware you have cats and brought them back to US from Riyadh, figured you be the best person to ask in recommending a good vet for my husband’s new cat? The cat is now 3 months old and will need its shots! ASAP plus my daughters are arriving next week and most likely would like to take the cat back to the US. I will need a vet who knows what paper work we will need before traveling back to the US. I have done this before with a small dog years ago, but from the Eastern Province where I lived. I am not familiar with Riyadh except visiting family and shopping at shopping malls.
Thanks for your help,
Hope you continue to recover, wish you well!
I always admire your courage and will to go on after suffering such heartache in loosing someone so special to your heart.
bri
American Bedu, on October 10, 2011 at 5:57 am said:

Hi Bri! Please see me response to your message via the contact page!

Good luck!
Diane Macandog, on October 25, 2011 at 6:16 am said:

hi!
i’ve been browsing the net for daysss already and i havent found a bakeshop (cake or cupcakes) that can accept my order online and can accept payment online. goodness. i have a friend in riyadh who will be celebrating his birthday this nov15 and i would like to send him a cake. help please. im here in the philippines. thanks so much.
Lisa, on October 27, 2011 at 3:25 am said:

I loved your response to Kari. It is exactly what I have been looking for these last few weeks. I am a single woman who has been approached about a teaching job at an international school in Riyadh. Unfortunately, it does not come with housing and the housing allowance is only about 24,000 SR/year. I am worried that I will not be able to find a place to live – I don’t mind having room mates. From all the posts you had, it seems like that could be a real concern. When I asked the school about the housing their response was that I could live wherever I wanted. Would you please shed some light on this for me.
Xavier, on November 15, 2011 at 12:22 pm said:

Hi there, I am from Spain and will be posted to Riyadh very soon and would like to know what I would get for accommodation there with a budget of SR 330000 per year.

This is my second assignment to KSA, first was in Jubail where I had a mansion with two pools ( one indoors and another outdoors ) also I prefer not to stay in compounds specially Western compounds where have to pay for security and other facilities that I do not use most of the time and in Saudi being one of the most safe countries in the World I do not need armed protection like say Irak or Somalia, feel confortable living in Saudi neighbourhoods as it also helps me practice my Arabic.

Thanks for the support

Regards and thanks

Xavier
Madrid
Spain
Listening, on December 13, 2011 at 8:41 am said:

Dear Bedu,
Where are the happy endings? I have read about and observed so many discouraging stories about failed relationships and marriages between Saudis and non-Saudis. When do these relationships bring happiness; when do they last?
VitsankMorris, on December 21, 2011 at 7:34 am said:

What are your opinions about this online debate about women driving in Saudi Arabia?
* http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/f/f0/IslamFundie.png
I do not know which country Dr. Ismael Mansoor comes from, but I wonder if a lack of familiarity with the customs of the outside world and/or an inability to critically examine factors in Saudi contributes to the continued misguided belief that women should not be allowed to drive?
I found it satisfying to see women intellectually debate, and defeat, Dr. Mansoor’s viewpoints online.
The original LA Times article is here: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2010/06/saudi-women-use-fatwa-in-driving-bid.html
Lonnie, on January 2, 2012 at 4:21 pm said:

Dear Bedu and all,
As for the last two postings I would like to comment. First, I would like to think that happy ending stories to happen between Saudis and non Saudis. Since I am one of them, my wife is Saudi and I am American. The story hasn’t ended yet, but I am happy with it so far.
The second being women driving in KSA. I think it is wise to step back and see the picture a little better. Since driving in KSA is so dangerous due to the lack of enforcing any traffic laws or ethics, to the point you have a higher chance of dying in a traffic accident than old age. Untill this issue is addressed and fixed, entering women into the driving equation will make it worse.
Case in point, if a young saudi boy wants the info of a young saudi girl driving next to him. If he is sly enough, he can change lanes in front of her, causing her to hit his car from the rear. This would be 100% her fault according to driving laws and the traffic report would exchange drivers info and insurance. Sounds drastic to get a girls number?? You would be surprised. If she doesn’t have insurance, watch out.
Anxo, on January 3, 2012 at 6:49 am said:

Driving in Saudi has improved somehow with the installation of cameras and surveillance vans on main intersections as well in some spots in the highway and where if get caught depending on your speed and your actions you can get a ticket home or a police visit to carry over to jail.

The problem is that some Saudis resort to actions such as covering their plates, shooting the cameras and vans and in many cases destroying them, but I feel that the driving of Saudis has improved somehow, at least here in Khobar where I am based, in what regards woman driving, it will como soon and it will start in the main cities, the woman have not more support than ever from certain top princesses, princes and public thus the first step was to get lingerie and woman cloths shops to be man only by saleswoman and that is now being enforced by law thus woman driving in Saudi will come next, Inshallah however, if my wife is going to drive I will buy her a Hummer H1.
Lauren, on January 4, 2012 at 2:51 am said:

Perhaps I am lucky, but my Saudi friends were quite upfront about the conditions of their visas and scholarships, the ridiculous visa process to Saudi and the joke that is the governmental permission for marriage. Don’t get me wrong, my friends are really quick to assert that Saudi Arabia is the BEST COUNTRY OH MY GOSH EVER– but they do like to complain about things over there now and again. Which is why I found it a bit shocking to hear about women marrying Saudi students and then finding out all this information only AFTER. I have never even dated a Saudi and I still know this information… I do wonder why people would not ask more questions about someone they are actually marrying. Especially when they come from another country.

I think people are too quick to jump into something they don’t understand, and cross-cultural relationships are not something to be taken lightly! You can’t expect someone to become acculturated in only a few short years. And even those that have been in the States for longer (I know one boy who has been studying for seven years and hasn’t even returned for a visit to the KSA in the last five or six) aren’t going to fully acculturate when, in the back of their mind, they are planning on returning to Saudi for work (and they are all planning on returning. that is the point of the scholarship, no?) In many ways I am not at all surprised in a USA to KSA mentality switch. I would expect it. I would never expect someone to return home and throw off that kind of cultural and family pressure just because they’ve been living in the States for a while. I know I act differently around my own parents than I do my friends. I even act differently around my more conservatively religious friends than I do others. Why would this situation be any different? And a USA-KSA attitude shift is going to be more dramatic and thus more noticable and, perhaps, more unnerving.

However, as an aside, I’ve actually seen the complete opposite of the relationship described here, where the American (or other international exchange student) uses the Saudi student for his money and eventually leaves him (usually for another Saudi, go figure). Years later, one of my friends still hasn’t seemed to have recovered emotionally from the breakup. I think far too often people are too cavalier about relationships and seem far to willing to use other people for their own personal gain. At any rate, it all just breaks my heart.
Lauren, on January 4, 2012 at 3:06 am said:

And I did have a question, if you don’t mind my longwinded self continuing on. (brevity is clearly not something I’m good at. >.<) I have noticed that you tend to focus on the trials of obtaining permission to marry within KSA, seeming to imply that the couple settling down in KSA is the default (and perhaps it is, I am no expert). Are you aware of any information noting the success of relationships that settle outside of KSA? Or how often this occurs?

Do you think there is anything that would indicate how likely it is for a relationship to work out, long-term? {such as whether he is the oldest son, somewhere in the middle, or around the youngest. How religious he may be (personal friends run the gambit from one who cut off all contact with every woman (including myself) the moment he heard from his family they found him a Saudi fiancée to a guy who doesn't even fast for Ramadan anymore, despite complaints from his family. I can only imagine that the variation that lies between is, in itself, quite interesting.) How physical the relationship has progressed (i.e. no real physical contact to kissing to sexual intercourse). If she converts and so on and so forth.}

I realize that this is not your specialty and it isn't as though you have been conducting research, but as a psychology/sociology major these types of questions just fascinate me and I was wondering if you happened to notice any patterns in the successful v. non-successful relationships.
American Bedu, on January 4, 2012 at 5:18 am said:

Hi Lauren,

Actually the couples who settle in a third country or outside of KSA usually do have a better chance of success. It takes a special woman who can give up her country and go to the Kingdom where she has no family nor a support network.

I personally recommend that any woman thinking of marrying a Saudi go to the Kingdom and work there for at least one year to gain some exposure and inside knowledge of life in the Kingdom.

Each partner will have to work hard on communications and the art of compromise.

I suggest you search my blog for interviews I have done with bi-cultural couples and the many topics of relationships and marriage to Saudis.

Family acceptance is also a key part on a successful relationship. If the couple intend to live in Saudi and his family is not accepting, then don’t hold your breath. The foreign wife can be shunned and he may be pressured to take a Saudi wife…which would further ostracize the foreign wife.
American Bedu, on January 4, 2012 at 5:18 am said:

However, I should add that those relationships with acceptance and communication can be absolutely wonderful!

On Wed, Jan 4, 2012 at 5:18 AM, Carol Fleming wrote:

> Hi Lauren, > > Actually the couples who settle in a third country or outside of KSA > usually do have a better chance of success. It takes a special woman who > can give up her country and go to the Kingdom where she has no family nor a > support network. > > I personally recommend that any woman thinking of marrying a Saudi go to > the Kingdom and work there for at least one year to gain some exposure and > inside knowledge of life in the Kingdom. > > Each partner will have to work hard on communications and the art of > compromise. > > I suggest you search my blog for interviews I have done with bi-cultural > couples and the many topics of relationships and marriage to Saudis. > > Family acceptance is also a key part on a successful relationship. If the > couple intend to live in Saudi and his family is not accepting, then don’t > hold your breath. The foreign wife can be shunned and he may be pressured > to take a Saudi wife…which would further ostracize the foreign wife. > >
zeina, on January 8, 2012 at 7:35 am said:

Dear Bedu,

I’m gonna move to Riyadh this week to teach at King Saud University. I’d like to bring small gifts to give to my students’/friends’ families, such as soap, perfume, etc. Any suggestions about American things that people like?
Al Mutazili-المعتزلي, on January 8, 2012 at 10:31 am said:

Is it true that KSA has one of the lowest crime rates in the world?
American Bedu, on January 8, 2012 at 12:39 pm said:

Dear Zeina,

Perfume is always a favorite! Other items that are well received are items from Old Navy and DVD’s of popular movies.

Best Regards,
Bedu

Dear Al Mutazili,

There is crime in KSA but there are also very stiff penalties for those who are caught which may give the perception that is has one of the lowest crime rates. That being said, I always felt very secure in KSA.

Bedu
zeina, on January 13, 2012 at 10:59 pm said:

Thank you for your advice, Bedu! I heard some perfume cannot get through customs because of its alcohol content. Any comments on this?
American Bedu, on January 14, 2012 at 12:16 am said:

Hi Zeina,

Your remark is the first time I have heard of perfumes being confiscated at Saudi customs due to alcohol content. I know that perfumes are a very popular gift to bring in to the Kingdom. Can you tell me more about what you had been told?
zeina, on January 14, 2012 at 12:23 am said:

Thank you Bedu! I was reading this website when I saw this idea of confiscating perfume: http://leanman.hubpages.com/hub/Expat-Living-and-Working-in-Saudi-Arabia-Rules-Regulations-Laws

However, I’m gonna take your word for it and just bring some along.
Sandy, on January 14, 2012 at 12:43 am said:

I think you can buy everything here. So no reason to confiscate.
American Bedu, on January 14, 2012 at 7:59 pm said:

Thanks for sharing the link. The article provides a rather extreme and pessimistic view of the Kingdom. Life in the Kingdom is more strict compared to other places in the world but not as bad as the article states.
b, on January 25, 2012 at 6:36 am said:

I have noticed throughout your blog that there is little mention of female Saudi students, and that there are comments from people that it is difficult to meet them.
I live in a diverse city, which has a lot of Saudi students. So, over the years I have become friends with some of them. The Saudi’s I know include a number of girls.
Most of the girls I know are in their 20’s and some don’t wear hijab and have boyfriends (Although only Muslim Arab boyfriends). That being said, when meeting them at first glance you would never know they were Saudi and their dating lives only slowly came to the surface as I got to know them. They are also very careful about how they dress and where they go, for fear of being recognized by the wrong person. From my experience not all Saudi female students are sheltered and conservative; they just learn how to keep their lives private. A girl I know from Jeddah said that all Arab men will say that their sister is different, and that she doesn’t speak with boys or go out, but that in reality most girls in their 20’s have separate private lives.
I’m curious what other experiences people have had with women from Saudi? I feel as if Westerners assume Saudi women are all suppressed, but then focus on male elements of the society. This, however, just reinforces the idea that women aren’t in a relevant sphere.
American Bedu, on January 26, 2012 at 1:01 am said:

@B – you made some interesting points. It is very important for a young Saudi woman to keep her private life private. If she is moving outside of social norms of her culture and traditions, it is essential for her and her family’s reputation that her chosen activities remained private.
black apple :'(, on January 31, 2012 at 1:51 am said:

black apple :’(, on January 31, 2012 at 1:38 am said: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
hi everyone …i want to share my story ,im inlove with a saudi man and we have this great relationship until now..we met each other here in saudi arabia we are workmates, we started this love by the year of 2010 ,he is a good man really a unique one coz of his kind attitude,really i feel so lucky to have him in my life i love him so much,and i thanked God that He gave me my brown eyes,my past relationship is a long one we started good but we ended up as the bad one..so i hoped and i prayed to God after that relationship with my ex that my next relationship will be good if ever i will have again,but i prayed that he will be my last, and when i came here in saudi arabia for work i never expected that i would find my love here.. my new inspiration..im so happy with him and he is like that to me also,he knows me very well and i know him too..we are very comfortable with each other,we really feel so much love .. i hope we will last forever.. we know that our future is cloudy or simply means that “we cant be”..did u know that the first time we talked about the future we cried so much really many tears came out from us,,tears of sadness that we know someday that really we cannot marry each other and we cannot be together ,while typing now this message im crying.. from that time we decided that we will not talk about it,but still sometimes i want and im just controlling my feelings and still hoping that one day inshaallah we can be..im so sad about it, its really hard but we both decided to continue this relationship coz we really love each other even it really hurts us,this is very hard for me: IM HAPPY NOW BUT WHAT ABOUT THE FUTURE?LIVING MY LIFE ALONE WITHOUT HIM :’( WHEN WILL .. i know the decision is up to him but i understand him and its very hard for him to disregard his family and religion for me especially he is a saudi muslim man ..for me im always telling this that im willing to sacrifice everything for him just to be in his life.. i can see the silence and sadness in his eyes :’( everytime i say those words to him..its very hard to imagine that he can be married someday to a girl that he doesnt love and its just because of familys choice and me,his true love, being left out and facing the reality that our love ends here and still trying to accept the fact that he is gone (really i want to cry)..really im afraid for this time to come :’( theres only one thing i know what to do for us ..its to pray to God that we can be together..if its not now..i hope someday we can be..i know that in God’s eyes our love is free..please help us Lord..thank u so much..
American Bedu, on January 31, 2012 at 6:53 pm said:

@Black Apple,

I sincerely wish all the best for you. Be careful. I’ve no doubt you know the risks of having a relationship inside of Saudi Arabia. My unsolicited advice is to cherish the time you have had with your Saudi but for your peace of mind, move on. The deeper you become involved, the more heartache you will feel at the end.

Best Regards, Bedu
black apple, on February 1, 2012 at 2:14 am said:

thank you for the advice bedu.. im really afraid for the time that he have to say goodbye.. i hope i can move on someday.. we cant stop it now coz we love each other..
black apple, on February 1, 2012 at 12:49 pm said:

thanks for the reply bedu and for the advice.. before, we are together here in my work but now he had his work for the government.. it was 6months already that we’re not together here..but even we are far away from each other, the constant communication is there..nothing is change just the distance..but i still hope “we can be someday”..
Al-Zuhayyan, on February 1, 2012 at 8:18 pm said:

Dear Bedu,

I don’t know why my comments are awaiting for so long to be approved.

However, I offer a suggestion that sparked in my head while thinking of my days in the US, and is suitable for a debate: Why most people, especially those from Third World countries, yearn to live in the US?

I have my reasons, and you may have yours. Jot them down and lets us know. Your comments could be enlightening with respect to our views about human nature and the quality life itself.
American Bedu, on February 1, 2012 at 11:23 pm said:

@Al-Zuhayyan,

First of all, I apologize for the delay in your comments to appear on the blog. First time commentors go into moderation until I have manually approved the comments. Further comments should now be posted immediately.

Thank you for your suggestion. Stay tuned to the blog! (smile)

Best Regards,
Bedu
Shaimaa, on February 2, 2012 at 7:31 am said:

Dear Bedu, please advise me in my situation as soon as you can. I’ve been online friends with a 24 year old, middle child saudi guy for about three years. At the beginning I fell in love with him and talked to him so much. However, I was talking to another guy who wanted to marry me, so the saudi guy was afraid to tell me his feelings. We stopped talking for a couple years, but after my divorce with the “other” guy, I started talking to my saudi friend again. I fell in love once again, and told him how I had felt years ago. I was surprised to hear that he too had loved me and had prepared a paper that he’d been practicing to say that he wanted to marry me. Anyway, now we are here, in this time, chatting once again. We know our feelings for one another, but the problem is that his mom arranged for him to marry his cousin. She did this without his permission, and the girl and her family have accepted. It’s been about one month for the engagement. My saudi friend says of course he doesn’t know her or love her, but he must go through with the marriage. His older brother had also been arranged to marry her a while ago, but then changed his mind and broke the engagement. Now my saudi friend feels that if he breaks this engagement with the same girl, it would create many problems within the family and make his mother look stupid or rude. He is in a tough situation, I know. I kind of advised him to talk to his mom about me and his feelings, but he says there’s nothing to do. He only tells me to pray that something changes. I am a Muslim American woman, and I would love to be in saudi arabia and wear niqab, be a housewife, etc. However, I know saudi arabia is difficult and families can be difficult. I really really love him with my heart and with my mind. I know he would be a great husband and I’m sure of my decision for him. Is there ANY way that I could advise him or something that could happen to break the engagement? I am in misery, and so is he. His family is somewhat traditional, women wearing niqab and things, well-off financially, and also my saudi friend has travelled a lot, making me feel that his close family is somewhat open-minded. Please advise me, please. Is there anything to do to break the engagement??? Thank you so much.
American Bedu, on February 2, 2012 at 11:20 pm said:

Dear Shaimaa,

This is a very tough and delicate situation. Given that an arranged marriage with the cousin was already broken, he is placed in a very tenuous position. He is absolutely correct that if he were to try and get out of the arranged marriage, it would likely cause a significant rift in the family – made more so due to the fact they are related.

Just because he is well traveled or his family has traveled does not mean that the family may be more open-minded.

From what you have written, I am sorry to say that I do not believe his family would accept a foreign wife for him. Even if you were to ever agree to be a second wife, with a marriage within the family to a relative, you’d likely not be accepted. She would always be the one to receive favor and support. You’d likely be made miserable.

My advice is to wish him all the best and move on. I’m sorry that this is not what you want to hear but I do not see a happy ending.

Best wishes,
Bedu
latinmuslimah, on February 3, 2012 at 11:48 pm said:

dear bedu:

what do you think of this one?

offensive to saudis or clear musical message?
bigstick1, on February 4, 2012 at 4:10 am said:

Awesome. A clear musical message. Latinas have a great deal of fiesty in them as well.

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