Saudi Arabia: The Muslim Women

 

What emotions arise in YOU as you watch the video about Muslim women?  I imagine some may see repression or intolerance.  I see women who give no indication of objection or dissatisfaction with the way they are dressed.  Many of the images remind me of typical scenes I saw with my own eyes while working in Saudi institutions.  The dress is simply the accepted and expected way.

I believe it is up to each individual woman how she wishes to present herself.

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73 Responses

  1. Ask not Barbara Walters what a Muslim woman feel,ask not CNN,Foxs what a Muslim woman feels..ask a Muslim woman! Exactly! As a Muslim woman, i am happy to please my Creator by the way i dress. As a Muslim women, i feel proud to see a Muslim women among others and be able to recognize a sister in faith. I am proud to wear what i wear and i do NOT need someone to speak for me,for someone to tell me I am oppressed or stupid or backwards or ugly. I have never gone up to a non covered women and tell them how to dress so why should i face your judgement? I was told tht i d be sent to hell by qn extremist while i was in NYC. Because of my headscarf?

  2. Hmm . . . interesting. I was more struck by the commentator during the first half of the video than the pictures of women not that the pictures weren’t striking also.

    I like what the commentator said about asking Muslim women although I only ask close friends about “covering” as it seems personal. That a Muslim women and a non Muslim women look in the mirror for opposite reasons seems like a gross generalization. Lots of non Muslim women look for the same thing in the mirror as their Muslim counterparts modesty, fit in with society and everything in place. Okay we westerners might check that there is no breakfast lodged between our teeth as our mouths aren’t covered.

    I liked the music at the end. Is acapella singing allowed in Islam?

  3. Hehe Annie, i ask my husband everytime after meal if i hv food lodge in between my teeth. Usually the answer would be Yes n he’d poked out the grub,albeit in a restaurant. I don’t cover my face but wear headscarf usually colourful ones.

  4. Either the commentator is a paid pathological liar or has more access to uncovered Muslim women than the rest of us.

  5. Kinda was a little annoyed by the commentator saying what “other women feel” when they dress and leave the home in the morning, especially considering he doesn’t fit into the category of “other women”. I find it very demeaning and repressive for someone to automatically assume they know what another person is thinking.

    For me, when I get up in the morning, I want to make sure I’m decent, fully clothed, and am not going to draw attention to myself. I don’t think so much about my appearance as I do about what I’m going to do that day. I’m that girl whose hair is never quite in the right place and whose choice of clothing depends more on what mood she is in that rather than how other people view me. Maybe I’m Christian, maybe I’m Muslim, maybe I’m Deist. I believe in God/Allah and my views on life are just that-mine. Does it really matter how I choose to label myself? I’ve actually started caring a little more how I present myself now that I am with my sweetie.

    I really think that a lot of “religious” people place too much importance on dress and too little importance on matters of the heart. Let’s all get back to reality and see that we’re healthy, our neighbor is healthy, and we’re all enjoying life.

  6. When a man yells, I stop listening. When I first started in Islam, I was Niqabi, but here in Portland, Oregon Niqab is big trouble. For the whole time I was Muslim, I wore Hijab, both Amira type and scarf. Again, I say that I can smile to another woman and win her over with my gentle speech. So, for the most part Muslim women who complain of persecution in the US, usually brought it on themselves.

    I saw enough to convice me that for some Muslim men, the Niqab has a fetishistic sexual attraction.

    As far as being oppressed, I do not think the woman that wears mini skirt and tank top is any less oppressed than the woman in the Niqab.

    I did not feel opressed as a Muslim woman. I was mainly put off by how mean Muslim women are to convert women who do not speak Arabi.

    And it sickened me when I was with another Muslim and they would see a woman without Hijab and they would quietly call her a whore.

  7. The fact the Saudi women wear black coverings willingly doesn’t mean it is good. First of all it must be uncomfortable. It does restrict vision (and safety). If does restrict hearing to a lesser extant.

    It makes a fetish of modesty.

  8. In Saudi, it is normal to wear these clothes- it is the everyday attire that even non-musliims are expected to abide to ( without though covering their face).

    WIthout this attire, you will get many unwelcoming looks and if these looks turn to harassment ( verbal, sexual, et.) it will be deemed your fault.

    Most saudi women, feel comfortable wearing the abaya- it is part of their lives.

    Neverthless when they travel abroad, you see the very same women go about without it and in the very knowledge of their husband/family.

    That is not because they are hypocrites as some might say, but because no harassment will result if they dont wear it. Thus it is demmed unecessary.

    Thus we are talking about two different social and cultural systems, where in the former the abaya is a necessity and in the later it is not.

    The saudi women and their families realise that and act according to their environment.

    An important note to make here is that the abaya in itself – strictly speaking- is not an islamic garment. It is made out to be one.
    Islamic dress is deamed to be modest, without even necessarily including a head cover.

    Additionally hijab- modest cover- is not a pillar of islam.

  9. “Ask not Barbara Walters what a Muslim woman feel,ask not CNN,Foxs what a Muslim woman feels..ask a Muslim woman!”

    Have you noticed in the entire video NOT even one Muslim woman spoke!!! And some how this video is supposed to convince us that the situation of Muslim women is misunderstood. Only an extremely arrogant man (not an uncommon trait among Islamic imams), would think others would not notice the extreme irony of such statement.

    By the way in this case that imam is Louis Farrakhan.

  10. You are right on tht one Moq. However,as a Muslim woman myself, i gv my stance on the hijab. I and other Muslim women would appreciate it if men (Muslim or not) and other women would stop stereotyping us as beint oppressed.

  11. @Mrs Bawazir
    I agree. Hijab is obligatory for Muslim women. It is a commandment of Allah. Which cloth , what colour, it is individual choice. Moreover ,i do not understand point of discussion. Muslims never discuss mini skurts, see through clothes worn by other women. Do whatever they wish to do. It is true that Islamic dress deemed to be modest.

  12. What emotions arise in YOU as you watch the video about Muslim women?

    That these burka-clad women resemble penguins. And penguins are real cute, btw. Sorry but couldn’t resist giving my honest opinion, since you asked “what emotions arise in you”.

  13. Okay Khadijeh, the first wife of Prophet Mohammed, was also the 1st woman to accept Muslim faith. Khadijeh was also a very powerful and successful business woman with pre-Islamic upbringings. There are no reports to verify that Khadijeh brought Islam and then wrapped herself in cotton wool and retired.
    Aisheh (Ahl al-Bayt) had extreme influence on Islam after Prophet Mohammad era and fought may wars in person; could she had been a stereo type women we know today !! She certainly did not need men to speak on her behalf.

    Perhaps Fatimah and many more examples of women in early Islam who could actively speak their mind and take action whiteout fear. However, since then for centuries there seemed to be men justifying women’s role their subdued participation; how could that happen and why.
    Like these Icons, there is no doubt about what women could do for the society as Mothers, as Teachers, as Nurses or even Commander of Army like Aisheh.
    Modesty bring respect, that is fact, but the core issue is to see women in action, taking charge, leading from the front, Liberating, Educating, Communicating with wider nation, moving with the flow and show they have the authority and intelligent to make a different rather than being pampered by the word of men preaching on their behalf. Shackled by the fear that anything they do will be provocative for the opposite sex and so forth.
    Again modesty is good, but I personally do not thing Nigab or over- wrapping would bring the harassment issue under control. For example, the fact there are delicious food is on display in the supermarkets does not permit anyone to attack it; take unfair advantage. Remember the youth on the street are our Sons, Brothers, Cousins, Fellow Citizen or at least country men and they need to learn to behave and respect; otherwise if you wise to insert control on them Sky is the limit. The Muslim men will be judged for their standard of behaviour and etiquette when they meet with non-Muslim. Think about the balance, for example if Muslim men do not respect modesty and think un-wrapped women is provocative then how do you expect to see Saudi men to behave in the western world. Think about the ratio in the wider world and not just an isolated location.
    So, in modesty, what is tolerated in street of London, Paris, New York etc could be tolerated anywhere in the world if the situation is under control. Early on we had comment about Saudi’s behaving well soon they leave the boarder so it must be a group of individual who have different perception of freedom of choice and definition for provocative behaviour.
    Almost all Islamic books are written by men, is it about the time that Muslim ladies could start their own librated publications!! Surely there are issues that men cannot express on women’s behalf. Let’s tackle the Bull by horn, Open & Honesty works, hiding, isolating and running away from the reality will not solve any issues.

    By the way, before I am bombarded with questions and may be accusations, I better say that I proudly have 2 sisters both married, have children but contribute significantly to the wealth and success of the family. I am proud of my Midwife sister for working hard against all the odds of being Muslim and study hard to get qualified. She has a profound impact on her children’s up brining and without her financial contribution kids would had to suffer. My aunt faced an un-welcomed divorced but she managed to complete her study and establish herself to survive successfully without begging men to take her on. This is what I call women liberation and independency the rest is cloudy the issue and had never resolved anything for generation, let’s be focused. Sorry if I got it wrong, I consider my self as an honest man not willing to confiscate anyone’s freedom.

  14. For the ones completely covered, I can’t help thinking they do not want to get to know me, they don’t want to interact with anyone. They simply want to be ignored.

  15. sheerazy, on May 22, 2012 at 2:06 pm said:

    ” …. Like these Icons, there is no doubt about what women could do for the society as Mothers, as Teachers, as Nurses or even Commander of Army like Aisheh. Modesty bring respect, that is fact, but the core issue is to see women in action, taking charge, leading from the front, Liberating, Educating, Communicating with wider nation, moving with the flow and show they have the authority and intelligent to make a different rather than being pampered by the word of men preaching on their behalf ….. “.

    Sheerazy, well said! I wish there were more progressive muslims like you in this world. Carry on ….

  16. If a woman is kidnapped and falls in love with her kidnapper, does it make it okay, because she came to accept her plight? Or is that how she manages to deal with her imprisonment so that she doesn’t loose her mind due to the loss of being present in the world as opposed to a ghost.

  17. Ten Brave Saudi Women

    Saudi women can be scientists, pilots, Mount Everest climbers and car race competitors, but for Princes Naif and Salman and their agent of darkness, the Saudi Mufti and his religious establishment, women are perpetual minors. It’s time the Saudi elitists are brought to justice for the wrongdoings they commit against half of Saudi society for no reason other than their gender which they did not choose.

    http://www.majalla.com/eng/author/themajalla

  18. carol, we have a sizable muslim population here in maui. they are some of the friendliest folks one can meet. they are very much involved in our community as business leaders, entrepreneurs, etc. some are even active in politics at the local level.

    i have not seen a muslim lady in head-to-toe muslim garb here. i have seen a few with beautiful and colorful head scarves, which they only put on when going or returning from schools or work. they say it is not required by their religion and is only cultural and they do it only out of respect for their parents whose hearts/minds are still in the “old country”. they dress modestly just like you and i do, carol … dresses, jeans, etc etc.

    i think the video did gross injustice to muslim ladies. obviously it was made by bigoted males who didn’t even had the courtesy of letting women speak at all. this video though brought a bad name to muslim ladies. it presented an extremely bigoted point of view of their religion which did not resemble reality as i know it from my interactions with muslim ladies.

    oh well. to each his/her own. Like you said, carol, it is up to each individual woman how she wishes to dress herself.

  19. I was nauseated by that video and especially the picture near the end of the women covered in black in the water with her husband. I still feel ill.
    To answer his question I have indeed asked many, many covered ‘from head to face to toe’ Muslim women whether they like it or not and the answer is a resounding NO! I’m sure there are some who like it and that is their choice. Many don’t have the choice though.

    Mrs. B is right on one point … none of us should tell another how to dress.

  20. It is obligatory for muslim women to cover with(HIJAB). It is not cultural but religious. Wendy is right in this respect

  21. @ wendy: sure noone should tell the other how to dress.

    Nevertheless it is a misinterpretation of islam to claim that the abaya is enforced by the koran.

    That is a very important point to consider.

  22. Where in the Muslim text books does it say women have to be turned into invisible walking black figure? It’s the Muslim men’s obsession with and fear of losing control over women’s sexuality.

    It’s okay for Muslim men to travel the globe to look for a nightstand (disease and all), but if women respond to their sexual urge, they either get stoned or have their heads chopped off, honor killings.

  23. Sami I did NOT say it was obligatory for Muslim women to wear the hijab. It is NOT obligatory at all but perhaps in your mind it is so do not ever imply that I said a Muslim woman should be covered other than to be somewhat modest.

  24. sheerazy, on May 22, 2012 at 2:06 pm said: ” …. Almost all Islamic books are written by men, is it about the time that Muslim ladies could start their own librated publications!! Surely there are issues that men cannot express on women’s behalf. Let’s tackle the Bull by horn, Open & Honesty works, hiding, isolating and running away from the reality will not solve any issues …”.

    Wow, you are awesome Sheerazy! That’s a beautiful statement, my friend! You are the one and the only one progressive muslim I have ever met on this forum or elsewhere. Most muslims that I have met, here on this forum and elsewhere, are ultra-extremists in their thoughts and actions …. it is usually my way or the highway.

    I have no idea whether you are a man or a woman, but regardless you should write a book and/or publish papers expressing your progressive ideas. At least, you should participate more on this forum so that we can gain from your progressive ideas and get the true picture of islam/muslims rather than the convoluted/scripted picture that we get from ultra-extremists here.

    I mean it seriously Sheerazi, when I say that I wish you could be cloned :)-

    A while back, I read an online article titled: Messages from Under the Veil: Rhetorical Analysis of Islamic Veils. Basically, it says that:

    “the Islamic veils, the hijab, the nikab, and the burka all send rich host of rhetorical messages. The messages sent and the messages received by others are not always the same, but regardless the sight of these robes and head scarfs immediately cause preconceptions to rise to the foremost of the mind, and opinions are never far behind. They are prisons of oppression, they are an artistic tool used to express political views, and they are liberation to a new generation”.

    Sheerazy, here are the links:

    http://hrymel.hubpages.com/hub/Gambling-with-our-Future-Thesis-Paper

    cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2009/10/08/canada-muslim-burka-niqb-ban-government.html

  25. @ Honest Abe … you said

    “Wow, you are awesome Sheerazy! That’s a beautiful statement, my friend! You are the one and the only one progressive muslim I have ever met on this forum or elsewhere. Most muslims that I have met, here on this forum and elsewhere, are ultra-extremists in their thoughts and actions …. it is usually my way or the highway.”

    I guess you don’t get out much, eh? Your prejudices are too much … really too much.

  26. @ Wendy … you said

    I guess you don’t get out much, eh? Your prejudices are too much … really too much.

    Thx for your feedback. Appreciate it very much!

  27. I will admit that I did find it disconcerting when being treated as a patient in Saudi Arabia by a Muslim woman who wore the niqab. All I could see were her eyes and without knowing her, it was difficult to build a rapport or feel comfortable. She was treating me yet I could not see her facial expressions. It was not a mixed environment so there was no cultural need for her to wear the niqab at the time.

    Otherwise, I do not object to how a woman chooses to present herself. But I think a woman should also consider the circumstances under which she is presenting herself…whether in an abaya, hijab, niqab, veiled or no Islamic type of covering.

  28. I am somehow encouraged to clarify couple of points . However, I ought to thread carefully in order to avoid barrage of criticism.

    OK, lets starts with this …
    When the Dalai Lama (spiritual leader of Tibet ) was asked what is the best religion in the world, he said “ The one makes you a better person”. http://www.dalailama.com/
    You fall in love with Dalai Lama’s 3 simple commitments:
    1 – Promotion of basic human values in the interest of human happiness
    2 – The fostering of inter-religious harmony
    3 – The welfare of the Tibetan people, focusing on the survival of their identity, culture and religion.
    The Tibetan modern style of leadership is admired by all, popular with most nation in the world.

    I am in favour of the book called Lost history by Michael Hamilton Morgan http://www.amazon.com/Lost-History-Enduring-Scientists-Thinkers/dp/1426200927 ……

    In an era when the relationship between Islam and the West seems mainly defined by mistrust and misunderstanding, we often forget that for centuries Muslim civilization was the envy of the world. Essential reading for anyone seeking to understand the major role played by the early Muslim world in influencing modern society, Lost History fills an important void. It provides new insight not only into Islam’s historic achievements but also the ancient resentments that fuel today’s bitter conflicts.

    Michael Hamilton Morgan reveals how early Muslim advancements in science and culture lay the cornerstones of the European Renaissance, the Enlightenment, and modern Western society. As he chronicles the Golden Ages of Islam, beginning in 570 a.d. with the birth of Muhammad, and resonating today, he introduces scholars like Ibn Al-Haytham, Ibn Sina, Al-Tusi, Al-Khwarizmi, and Omar Khayyam, towering figures who revolutionized the mathematics, astronomy, and medicine of their time and paved the way for Newton, Copernicus, and many others. And he reminds us that inspired leaders from Muhammad to Suleiman the Magnificent and beyond championed religious tolerance, encouraged intellectual inquiry, and sponsored artistic, architectural, and literary works that still dazzle us with their brilliance. Lost History finally affords pioneering leaders with the proper credit and respect they so richly deserve.
    So, you tell me where did we go and what went wrong, where are these people today and why we are in so much bad publicity today !!

  29. I am somehow encouraged to clarify couple of points . However, I ought to thread carefully in order to avoid barrage of criticism.

    OK, lets starts with this …
    When the Dalai Lama (spiritual leader of Tibet) was asked what is the best religion in the world, he said “ The one make you a better person”. http://www.dalailama.com/

    Dalai Lama’s 3 simple commitments are:
    1 – Promotion of basic human values in the interest of human happiness
    2 – The fostering of inter-religious harmony
    3 – The welfare of the Tibetan people, focusing on the survival of their identity, culture and religion.
    The Tibetan modern style of leadership is admired by all, popular with most nation in the world.

    I am in favour of the book called Lost history by Michael Hamilton Morgan

    In an era when the relationship between Islam and the West seems mainly defined by mistrust and misunderstanding, we often forget that for centuries Muslim civilization was the envy of the world. Essential reading for anyone seeking to understand the major role played by the early Muslim world in influencing modern society, Lost History fills an important void. It provides new insight not only into Islam’s historic achievements but also the ancient resentments that fuel today’s bitter conflicts.
    Michael Hamilton Morgan reveals how early Muslim advancements in science and culture lay the cornerstones of the European Renaissance, the Enlightenment, and modern Western society. As he chronicles the Golden Ages of Islam, beginning in 570 a.d. with the birth of Muhammad, and resonating today, he introduces scholars like Ibn Al-Haytham, Ibn Sina, Al-Tusi, Al-Khwarizmi, and Omar Khayyam, towering figures who revolutionized the mathematics, astronomy, and medicine of their time and paved the way for Newton, Copernicus, and many others. And he reminds us that inspired leaders from Muhammad to Suleiman the Magnificent and beyond championed religious tolerance, encouraged intellectual inquiry, and sponsored artistic, architectural, and literary works that still dazzle us with their brilliance. Lost History finally affords pioneering leaders with the proper credit and respect they so richly deserve.

  30. The speaker gave two examples of women: one who flaunts her body and the other who covers. In my opinion, both are being considered as sexual objects rather than human beings.

  31. I think this video is creepy. It promotes a scary picture of Islam as being full of voiceless and faceless women in black. It shows how male dominated Islam is, in that this video is seen as promoting dignity of muslim women – without any awareness that it portrays women as passive beings who need to be lectured to by men. It’s so sexist that it is unconscious of its sexism.

    One reason I don’t trust most of what muslims say about how women have status and dignity in Islam is that I don’t trust that Islam allows women to have their truth, when that truth makes men uncomfortable. Such as experiences of rape, of incest, wife beating, sexual harassment, depression, vitamin d deficiency, etc. When women have no voice there is no safe space for an honest full and complex rendering of the truth of women’s experience.

    This video is just a male fantasy.

  32. @ lark:

    I like the word you use: dignity.

    It is very important in any persons life. Dignity is not only being free of sexual harassment, it is also the following:

    Being able to implement your desicions without have a male relative to approve them: ( e.g going out of the house, travelling, going to work, etc)

    It is very different as a husband ad wife for example discussing your options and making common decisions, and it is very different having to ask ‘ permission’.

  33. @ /abe – I know how you describe yourself and someone who is supposedly so political and worldly would not make blanket statements about any group of people. You may ‘think’ you know all about Muslims but clearly you do not or you would not have made such a blatantly bigoted statement.

  34. Wendy – Thank you again for your feedback ….

  35. Interesting observation,
    So far we gathered 34 remarks, reply and comment from 18 individuals. I distance myself from analysis of positive and negative contribution, those in favours or against the motion and perhaps some who will not change slightly or willing to take advice.
    This is the first time or last time such issues are debated and discussed endlessly but to no avail. Just imagine during this discussion Japanese produced hundreds if not thousands of TVs, DVD, Mobile Phones and 100s more such products that we will happily purchase at the stores tomorrow. I try not bringing Chinese into this equation, this is embarrassing enough. There are productive nation / people in the world whom in this space of time produced food for us like Canadian, Russian, and Brazilian farmers so we can carry on debating trivial issues and topic such as God will be pleased with us if we do this and that.
    There are Doctors who saved children’s lives at hospitals, there are numerous scientists working hard to advance the technology and push through the boundary of science so we can be protected against Cancer and others such dreadful diseases. I can go on, but to me these people are the one loved by God for their contribution to serve human, animals etc and to make the world a better place to live.
    This is the way I would like to be close to God. I pray to God to allow me to see more of these people in the land near me and supplicate for me and members of my family to be privileged to be part of this useful community.
    This is off course the type of Pray that send message to Japanese, Chinese etc to say we mean business, we understand what counts, we appreciate the road to independencies, we would like to be self sufficient, we want to ply part in the international community for being productive, we acknowledge how to pulling our weight ….. And the rest of it … I hate to lecture and hope this does not sound like lecturing.
    Obviously there is nothing wrong with Japes and Chinese, rightly so they continue to grow and go from strength to strength while we debate like this; seems like we are clutching the straw and that saga has been there for generation.
    Perhaps it’s prudent to stop here but I will be bold enough to say that for the past 2 Millenniums there had been literally hundreds of religious leaders etc while in China there was NONE. They found Buda in search of spirit outside their territory, brought him in and loved him ever since – full stop.
    I do not want to preach and I do not want to get into the hot territory, people please themselves as they wish – it’s all down to perception an how practical you are to accept the truth. I tell my kids, be wise, look around, study, avoid sheepishness and be careful about the actual fact and constitute right and wrong. Then it up to their intelligent what they make out of their lives.

    Well, very long as usual but there you are Open & Honest

  36. sheerazy, on May 23, 2012 at 3:07 pm said: “So far we gathered 34 remarks, reply and comment from 18 individuals”.

    Sheerazi, what’s up with this, bro/sis? I don’t see any “34 remarks, reply and comment from 18 individuals”. Did ya mean to say they are on another blog/forum???? Thx.

    sheerazy, on May 22, 2012 at 11:44 pm said: ” …. When the Dalai Lama (spiritual leader of Tibet) was asked what is the best religion in the world, he said “ The one make you a better person”. Dalai Lama’s 3 simple commitments are: 1 – Promotion of basic human values in the interest of human happiness. 2 – The fostering of inter-religious harmony. 3 – The welfare of the Tibetan people, focusing on the survival of their identity, culture and religion. The Tibetan modern style of leadership is admired by all, popular with most nation in the world.

    Woehahahahahahahaaaaaaa — Another great post, Sheerazy! Keep ‘em coming …

    I agree with you. Won’t this world be a better place if everyone followed the simple credo enunciated by Dalai Lama. Love and Peace & Joy will be in the air 24/7!

    sheerazy, on May 22, 2012 at 11:44 pm said: “I am in favour of the book called Lost history by Michael Hamilton Morgan …. “.

    Oh yeah, I have read Morgan’s book. It’s a good easy read. Although his book sort of leaves the reader in a suspense/lurch mode, as to reasons behind the sudden death of islamic golden age. I asked around and then a very dear kenyan-muslim friend of mine (non-practicing/cultural muslim) emailed me a link on “Why the Arabic World Turned Away from Science”. Here is the link:

    http://www.thenewatlantis.com/docLib/20110605_TNA30Ofek.pdf

    Your Secret Admirer :)-

  37. I find Lark’s statement to fit. When I see (as I like fondly saying) the black awrah sacks. I see two things:

    1. An oppressed individual who is cowed into having to wear it by family or society. One who might be killed, beaten or tortured if she doesn’t wear it.

    2. An individual who is pious thus exhibiting a holier than now attitude on the other women and non-Muslims. They are the first to go report someone who is outside the custom to ensure compliance of oppression to the family or authority member of the sect thus keeping the oppressive state going for all those concerned.

    I actually look at those black sacks and get repulsed as all I see is the blood of women on the dress wear or the death reaper costume literally.

    Then my definition of pious is those who uphold religiously sanctioned torture, discrimination, oppression, bigotry, apartheid (in any form), division, hatefulness, etc. In other words pious means the worst of humanity to me.

    Now if a person truly wants to wear this fine but then leave others out of it but they never do as can be seen by Saudi society and its demands or the constant pressures by Muslims on women to conform to this type of dress wear.

  38. I’ve always though black is one of my best colors….

  39. @Honest Abe,

    Thanks for the web link to the Article “Why the Arabic World Turned Away from Science”

    I read the article twice, the second time just gazing at the pages with tears in my eyes. Yes I cried, cried to think there are literally Millions of women and children in the Muslim world that go to bed hungry and some never wake up in the morning. Cried for the fact that the pain, poverty, starvation, disease, access to basic medicine, lack of basic education, lack of basic shelter, basic sanitation … you name it is very common in the Muslim world today. These are the real issues, covering a Sinful Flesh is easily addressed by simple modesty; God will be pleased with the one who can help to tackle these dreadful and evil monsters. Seems like we have reached the rock bottom …. Please look at the following abstracts ………..

    The civilization that had produced cities, libraries, and observatories and opened itself to the world had now regressed and become closed, resentful, violent, and hostile to discourse and innovation.

    But the Islamic turn away from scholarship actually preceded the civilization’s geopolitical decline — it can be traced back to the rise of the anti-philosophical Ash’arism school among Sunni Muslims, who comprise the vast majority of the Muslim world.

    …once again turn our gaze back to the time of the Abbasid caliph al-Mamun. Al-Mamun picked up the pro-science torch lit by the second caliph, al-Mansur, and ran with it. He responded to a crisis of legitimacy by attempting to undermine traditionalist religious scholars while actively sponsoring a doctrine called Mu’tazilism that was deeply influenced by Greek rationalism, particularly Aristotelianism.

    In its place arose the anti-rationalist Ash’ari school whose increasing dominance is linked to the decline of Arabic science. With the rise of the Ash’arites, the ethos in the Islamic world was increasingly opposed to original scholarship and any scientific inquiry that did not directly aid in religious regulation of private and public life. While the Mu’tazilites had contended that the Koran was created and so God’s purpose for man must be interpreted through reason, the Ash’arites believed the Koran to be coeval with God — and therefore unchallengeable. At the heart of Ash’ari metaphysics is the idea of occasionalism, a doctrine that denies natural causality. Put simply, it suggests natural necessity cannot exist because God’s will is completely free. Ash’arites believed that God is the only cause, so that the world is a series of discrete physical events each willed by God.

    The greatest and most influential voice of the Ash’arites was the medieval theologian Abu Hamid al-Ghazali (also known as Algazel; died 1111). In his book The Incoherence of the Philosophers, al-Ghazali rigorously attacked philosophy and philosophers — both the Greek philosophers themselves and their followers in the Muslim world (such as al-Farabi and Avicenna). Al-Ghazali was worried that when people become favourably influenced by philosophical arguments, they will also come to trust the philosophers on matters of religion, thus making Muslims less pious.

    Reason, because it teaches us to discover, question, and innovate, was the enemy; al-Ghazali argued that in assuming necessity in nature, philosophy was incompatible with Islamic teaching, which recognizes that nature is entirely subject to God’s will: “Nothing in nature,” he wrote, “can act spontaneously and apart from God.” While al-Ghazali did defend logic, he did so only to the extent that it could be used to ask theological questions and wielded as a tool to undermine philosophy. Sunnis embraced al-Ghazali as the winner of the debate with the Hellenistic rationalists, and opposition to philosophy gradually ossified, even to the extent that independent inquiry became a tainted enterprise, sometimes to the point of criminality. It is an exaggeration to say, as Steven Weinberg claimed in the Times of London, that after al-Ghazali “there was no more science worth mentioning in Islamic countries”; in some places, especially Central Asia, Arabic work in science continued for some time, and philosophy was still studied somewhat under Shi’ite rule. (In the Sunni world, philosophy turned into mysticism.) But the fact is, Arab contributions to science became increasingly sporadic as the anti-rationalism sank in.

    The Ash’ari view has endured to this day. Its most extreme form can be seen in some sects of Islamists. For example, Mohammed Yusuf, the late leader of a group called the Nigerian Taliban, explained why
    “Western education is a sin” by explaining its view on rain: “We believe it is a creation of God rather than an evaporation caused by the sun that condenses and becomes rain.” The Ash’ari view is also evident when Islamic leaders attribute natural disasters to God’s vengeance, as they did when they said that the 2010 eruption of Iceland’s Eyjafjallajökull volcano was the result of God’s anger at immodestly dressed women in Europe. Such inferences sound crazy to Western ears, but given their frequency in the
    Muslim world, they must sound at least a little less crazy to Muslims. As Robert R. Reilly argues in The Closing of the Muslim Mind (2010), “the fatal disconnect between the creator and the mind of his creature is the source of Sunni Islam’s most profound woes.”

    In conclusion, one can search the internet for Ash’arism and Mu’tazilism ideologies but you will soon find out splitting the atom is much easy to understand that these doctrines’ so have we reached a rock bottom and still digging!!

  40. @Ali Alyami. It is not islamic for women to walk like black cow. but HIJAB is Obligatory. It depends how you wear it. Colour is not Islamic decree as well.
    Please try to understad the purpose of HIJAB.

  41. sami, on May 24, 2012 at 2:34 pm said: ” …. but HIJAB is Obligatory…”.

    Bbbbutt …. I have seen other fatwas and other islamic scholarly books/writings where they say Hijab is NOT religiously obligatory, but a mere cultural tradition.

  42. Sami, in you mind a hijab is obligatory but in fact it is not at all.

  43. @Wendy of 24 may
    The problem is that you do not read religious books. I quote Al-Quran 24:31. Read yourself. Hijab is Obligatory

  44. In the verse 24:31, the words in Arabic that most scholars use to interpret as making the hijab obligatory do not mean covering up hair or any of that. The words are very ambiguous, unused in colloquial Arabic accents and there is certainly no reference to hair or head in it. The closest thing it “might” mean is to cover up cleavage. That said, as many things said in the Quran or Bible are ignored, this ought to be one of them. But it was misinterpreted heavily and given bigger attention than anything. Like pastors who focus on homosexuality in the Bible while disregarding other things. The reason why scholars deem the hijab a religious obligation isn’t because of this verse, but because of a Hadith (or more) from the prophet, which can be iffy as many of those are “weak-sourced” and unreliable.

  45. Thank you brother, Nayef. When I was growing up in the Southern region, women and men used to gather in an open area where women used breastfeed (cleavage and all) their infants and that was normal.

    Women never cover their hair before the got married and even then, they did not wear anything like the porous-less black garment imposed on women from cradle to grave these days.

    What most of the discussants on this forum seem to intentionally avoid, overlook or don’t understand is that, camouflaging (suffocating) women has nothing to do with religion or tradition.

  46. sami, on May 24, 2012 at 8:53 pm said: “The problem is that you do not read religious books. I quote Al-Quran 24:31. Read yourself. Hijab is Obligatory”

    Sami,

    To reiterate what Nayef expressed so beautifully, according to many scholars: in verse 24:31, allah/mohammed are telling the women to use their cover or khimaar (khimaar, being a dress, a coat, a shawl, a shirt, a blouse, a tie, a scarf . . . etc.) to cover their bosoms, not their heads or their hair. If allah/mohammed willed to order the women to cover their heads or their hair, they would have simply said, “cover your head and hair.” Koran is mubeen/clear, remember?

    According to my study of koran/hadith, allah/mohammed both are neither vague nor forgetful nor run out of words. And more importantly, they do not wait for pseudo-imams to put the correct words in their mouths!

    Basically, allah/mohammed gave three simple rules for the dress code for muslim women:

    ONE: The best garment is that of nice, modest conduct (7:26).
    TWO: Cover your chest in the presence of unrelated men. (24:31)
    THREE: Draw a shawl around your person when outdoors in public. (33:59)

    Sami, most of the pseudo-interpreters/imams obviously are on a control and subjugate mission to imprison their muslim sisters. They translate the word KHIMAAR as VEIL and thus mislead people into believing that this verse is advocating the covering of the head and face. Nothing can be farther from the truth!

    There is absolutely no command in the koran for women to cover their heads or conceal their faces. Neither is there any specific strong hadith. A hijabi or nikabi woman (also imams/clerics) have already committed the greatest sin in islam by setting up other gods besides allah by obeying the clergy instead of allah/mohammed.

    Reading the history books, one finds that traditional arabs of all religions, jews, christians and muslims used to wear “hijab”. Not because of islam, but because of tradition. In saudi arabia, up to this minute most of the men cover their head, not because of islam but because of tradition. Thanks be to allah/mohammed that this tradition for men has not been counted as islamic dress code yet :)-

    Continuing on with the history books, north africa is known for its tribe called Tuareg that have the muslim men wearing “hijab” instead of women. Here the tradition has the hijab in reverse. Also, if wearing hijab is the exclusive sign of a pious and righteous woman, why do we see so many hijabi women in shopping malls, etc. completely disregarding other essentials of modesty, like wearing tight shirts and jeans, showing the body parts that must be concealed, plus immodest behavior?

    Sami, all in all, hijab is a cultural tradition and it has nothing to do with the teachings of allah/mohammed, as you claim! It is NOT obligatory, period.

  47. @Ali and all, Yes; I remember Mama Moudy saying similar things about the “earlier days” where life was more casual.

  48. Sami, how do you know I don’t read religious books? That is a very strange assumption on your part. I wonder how many books you’ve read. Period. And I also wonder how many religious books you’ve read that do not pertain to Muslims or that pertain to Muslims for that matter.
    Apart from what I read or don’t read I have my Muslim husband and in-laws from KSA and other Islamic countries who also agree that wearing the hijab is NOT obligatory.

  49. Well..how about the ones behind the cement veil!!!

  50. In older pictures (paintings, etc.) from women in the Middle Eastern region, some of the traditional dress (especially for the prostitutes) were to wear shirts that were open in the center, revealing some if not all of the women’s breasts. This is why I tend to wonder if the point trying to be made was not to cover from head to toe, but to cover the breasts so one does not resemble a prostitute. But that’s just me trying to be logical…

  51. Also, if women dressed more like the ruling elite, criminals would be more hesitant to rape them because they looked like they belonged to someone powerful.

  52. When you look at the real cultural heritage of Saudi Arabia you see a lot of colorful dresses, many pictures of women who do not veil, do not wear hijab. You see on old pictures they wear their braided hair free, with maybe a piece of cloth or a small hat covering the top of their head.
    The black death shroud has never been ”cultural” in Saudi Arabia. We hear again and again from eye witnesses that it was forced on the Saudi women. Literally forced on the Saudi women.
    This is not Saudi culture: Saudi culture has been destroyed, Saudi is now only an experiment in social engineering, gone wrong.

    The Hijab and niqab are sexualizing titillating fetish dress, one could just as well walk around in lingerie, black lace stockings and leather high heeled boots. It is more sexualizing and indecent than anything you see in the ”Wicked West”!
    It forces men to think of women a sexual objects rather than human beings, and they restrict women, cut them off from the world around them, making them into ghosts, while also making clear to them that they are walking vagina’s.

    @Gwendolyn, you are an apostate remember? You are now a Mormon remember? (unless you changed religion again)
    And you can’t have been ”Muslim” for a very long time, so please stop trying to get attention by making it look as if you know all about Muslims. You have shown often enough you don’t know much about Islam or Muslims. Maybe that is because you can’t manage to stay long enough in any religion to really know what you are talking about.

    @Moq, excellent comment. Although it is only natural they didn’t allow the Muslim women to speak; men can speak much better for the deficient sex then they can speak for themselves.
    I suppose what the depraved non-muslims should do is not ask a Muslim women about how life is behind the prison veil, but they should ask Muslim men about how great it is for a Muslim woman to be locked up in a fabric prison.

    @Sami, Read your magic book: it says cover the chest/breasts, and down to the knees. Which means that any modern sundress would be proper Muslim attire.

  53. The Touareg men veil themselves to protect themselves from evil spirits, apparently women are in no danger from these spirits, also, the higher in rank, the more of his face is veiled.

  54. Aafke – you have been missed. Welcome back!

  55. @Aafke-Art thanks for the comment but please kindly re-visit my blogs again:

    Before I list highlight of my Blogs, please be aware that I am fully aware of the so called Muslim Scientists, Poets, Mathematician, Astronomers Artists and basically Polymath were mostly Persians. I am try to be carful not to cause too much arguments and do my best to be persuasive. Its very easy to lose audience then no one would listen anymore. I appreciate depth of your knowledge and understanding of the subject matter but this could be perhaps a separate interesting subject to debate.

    On 22nd May at 2:06 pm I wrote ….

    Sorry if I got it wrong, I consider my self as an honest man not willing to confiscate anyone’s freedom.

    On reply Honest Abe understood my plea and persuaded me to carry on …
    I mean it seriously Sheerazi, when I say that I wish you could be cloned

    On 22nd May at 11:39 pm I wrote:

    I ought to tread carefully in order to avoid barrage of criticism. …….
    OK, lets starts with this …
    When the Dalai Lama (spiritual leader of Tibet ) was asked what is the best religion in the world, he said “ The one makes you a better person”.
    You fall in love with Dalai Lama’s 3 simple commitments: http://www.dalailama.com/
    I then continued to say …
    I am in favour of the book called Lost history by Michael Hamilton Morgan

    Honest Abe replied by commenting ….
    Woehahahahahahahaaaaaaa — Another great post, Sheerazy! Keep ‘em coming …
    I agree with you. Won’t this world be a better place if everyone followed the simple credo enunciated by Dalai Lama. Love and Peace & Joy will be in the air 24/7!

    on 23rd May at 03:07pm I wrote:
    I do not want to preach and I do not want to get into the hot territory, people please themselves as they wish – it’s all down to perception an how practical you are to accept the truth.

    Honest Abe replied positively in favour and recommended a web-like for further reading …

    I asked around and then a very dear kenyan-muslim friend of mine (non-practicing/cultural muslim) emailed me a link on “Why the Arabic World Turned Away from Science”. Here is the link:
    http://www.thenewatlantis.com/docLib/20110605_TNA30Ofek.pdf
    Your Secret Admirer

    On 24rd May at 02:13pm I wrote:@Honest Abe, …..
    Thanks for the web link to the Article “Why the Arabic World Turned Away from Science”

    In conclusion, one can search the internet for Ash’arism and Mu’tazilism ideologies but you will soon find out splitting the atom is much easy to understand that these doctrines’ so have we reached a rock bottom and still digging!!

    Please note my conclusion which is carefully selected – Ash’arism and Mu’tazilism – are the root causes of when and how things went wrong. I appreciate this requires a long and complicated discussion.

  56. Carol, thank you!

    How I feel when I watch the video…
    I feel disgusted and sad. I feel nauseated when I hear the whining aggressive and misogynist voice of this creepy woman hating cleric.
    Covering up women is always, always linked to oppression and misogyny.
    I know women themselves can be made to think differently, but in reality there is no culture. religion, country on Earth where they force women to cover and do not also deny them many rights. In some cases even the right to live. Veiling sinful women is the first step down to hell.

    Yes, I have talked to Muslim women as to why they veil, many veil because they believe there’s this invisible sky daddy who wants them to veil. There is no invisible sky daddy and this veiling thing is made up by men to control women.
    Women believe they will burn in hell if they don’t veil. To tell young girls they will burn in hell, and have a culture which enforces that imaginary idea by badly treating women who do not veil, or do not veil enough, takes away any notion of ”free choice”.
    ”Free choice” does not apply once you bring in the invisible sky daddy, eternal torture in the afterlife, and immediate punishment in this life..
    Unless a woman has some psychological problem about her appearance veiling is forced on women, either by literal force, or by psychological terrorism.

    Or, one other reason: vanity combined with masochism!
    There is the contingent of niqabis who get a great deal of pleasure out of fully covering, being excitedly upset when a visitor or taxi driver accidentally got a glimpse of one inch of her alluring wrist. They seem to get a lot of enjoyment out of being upset.
    Or others who are convinced they are superior to other women because they veil, that God has elevated them over the shameful hussies who do not veil, or do not veil enough.
    They are happy because the invisible sky daddy loves them more than all other women for following his fetish for veiling women.

    So yes, as a fellow woman I am disgusted and repelled, and most importantly offended by having to see veiled women. And I think these women should be liberated, by debunking their archaic made up religions, and in some cases psychological therapy.

  57. @honest Abe of 24 May
    Thank you for explaining the Hijab according to Quran and Sunna. If I agree with with yr interpretation of 24:31 and 33:59, I will try to find out from you or others, what was the practice of Hijab adopted by The Wives Of the prophet. Before these AYAATS , women were not covering the head and bosom. They started after the revelation of these ayyats,so it appears it was considered as order and not cultural.

    The wording of 33:59 ” O’ Prophet tell your wives and daughters and the believing women TO DRAW THEIR CLOAKS OVER THEIR BODIES” . Now it depends how to draw OVER THE HEADS or OVER THE SHOULDERS or some other way. However, Hijab (to me) is obligatory which ever the way you wear it.
    Thanks again.

  58. There is so much wrong with this quote,

    For one, how do we know this really happened? All religious books have been edited and tweaked. This has happened to the Quran right from the start. The hadith are even less reliable.

    Second: I find it highly suspect that an all powerful being is obsessed with what women wear, and leave men more freedom than women, this smacks of male human wishes to control women, it is unfair, it is discriminating, it is petty. None of these traits are attributed to the all powerful eternal sky daddy, yet this sky daddy acts like this?

    Third, it’s a ridiculous notion that men can order women about. There is nothing in real life which makes men more capable than women. On the contrary, men are notoriously incapable of understanding women, so men should never ever be allowed to tell women what they should or shouldn’t do.
    As regard the prophet himself, it is remarkable how Allah is always happy to come up with commands which happen to be stuff Mohammed wants people to do and which they do not want to do. As soon as he hits an obstruction Allah is there with another command to suit his wishes.
    And then from my point of view Mohammed did many extremely immoral things, like enslaving, murdering, raping, allowing, even inciting his men to do all these crimes, poisoning wells, attacking unsuspecting villages, betraying the city where he lived, sending out assassins to kill political opponents poets, etc. All to gain power.
    And his own story shows how obsessed he was with sex, women, and ownership of women.
    Nothing this man claimed or made up should be allowed to influence modern humans.
    Starting with women.

  59. Lets not forget the origin of this ”command”, people, including women would go out at night, in their undies, to take care of their ”business” in a special plot. (The WC not having been invented yet) and some men of the city harassed the women, including the property of Mohammed. When accosted about their bad behavior they tried to weasel out of it by the bad excuse of that they did not recognize the property of the prophet as elite women. A slur btw on Mohammed’s status as well as on that of his property.
    Because, at that time only elite Jewish women veiled, and were allowed to veil. Commoners and slaves were not even allowed to veil.

    So then there came this divine command for Mohammed to order his property to veil, Which also was a sign of higher status which reflected on himself.
    And considering the fact that Allah had to step in again I conclude that the majority of Mohammed’s property and the other Muslim women were unwilling to cover themselves in fabric from head to toe and did not heed Mohammed. Luckily there’s always the invisible sky daddy to help him out.

    So veiling, hijab, is actually imitating the Kuffaar, and as that is forbidden no Muslim woman should wear hijab ever.
    But as it pleases the men to force this onto their property that is conveniently forgotten.

  60. sami, on May 26, 2012 at 1:57 pm said:” …. The wording of 33:59 ” O’ Prophet tell your wives and daughters and the believing women TO DRAW THEIR CLOAKS OVER THEIR BODIES” …..”

    Hi Sami,

    The word “cloak” or “jalbab” in verse 33.59 has been translated/interpreted in many many ways. Power of influence of hadith on the translator and then expounded further in parenthesis!!!

    However, in many translations, which are not influenced by hadith (fairly tales anyways invented centuries after mohammed’s death), the word “Jalbab” has been invariably translated/interpreted to mean:

    Jalbab/Cloak = Outer garment = Overcoat = Lengthened dress = Chadar = Shawl = Loose-fitting garment = Modest dress. Body Parts Women Can Show In Public: Face, hands and forearms, heads, feet and ankles as during ablution (5:6).

    Sami, like I said, hadith are a bunch of fairly tales and made up magical stories anyways. Here is an excellent expose of hadith and why it is fakery, “Criminals Of Islam”:

    http://ourbeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/Dr.%20Shabbir/2007/09/criminals.pdf

  61. @ Aafke-Art, Well said. In the Saudi case, politics and economics play major role in the veiling system. The men who humiliate and terrorize people in the malls, restaurants and streets of Arabia Felix are paid and empowered by the families that consider the land, its wealth and people their private property.

    The ruling Saudi autocratic and theocratic families have impregnated society with fear, intimidation, self-worthlessness and reliance on the big “daddy.” Under these denigrating conditions, the up-normal not only becomes the norm, but the only value system its victims identify with and defend.

    Alienation, degradation and usurpation of one’s dignity tend to produce destructive and far-reaching reactions that transcend all borders and in the long run devour the people and institutions that create them.

    It’s not accident that the Saudi youth are among the most readily available recruits for terrorist and extremist groups.

  62. Well that’s great to know. When I travel to Saudi Arabia, or any other Muslim country, I expect I have the freedom and right to go out in shorts and a tank top and feel I have the right to wear what I want to wear.

  63. Thank you Aafke-art. You mean that spirits do not like women. Spirit is the trouble maker———–probably you are talking about Holy Spirit!

  64. Mrs,

    The links that you provided are all pro-hijabi. Especially the second link is definitely a muslim recruitment tool.

    As far as “hijab isnt merely a piece of cloth, it also includes behaviour” bit, that statement isn’t the sole “property” of muslims alone. One can say the same regarding “modesty” and “behavior” about believers, non-believers, atheists, agnostics, etc etc. Although, unlike islam, the other groups don’t go bonkers covering their women head to toe in tent-like enclosures!

    Oh well … to each his/her own ….

  65. Mrs. B:

    Yes it does ensure behavior. If you don’t wear it you are judged, acid thrown in your face, killed, etc.

    Heck even the Jewish recently got into the fray with spitting on an eight year old girl because she wasn’t modest enough.

    The term modesty is a control word bent on keeping women in their place and out of the public realm. It quickly becomes a hate word to women such as slut, bitch, whore. It is amazing how this term is the catalyst to such words. See what the term modesty really states is your are a sex object nothing more now know your place.

  66. HMRCD, If you have a penis you have that right. If you don’t it’s the black death shroud for you.

    Sami, the Touareg are sort of Muslim.

  67. Mrs Bawazir, I know everything in those links already. I don’t care, it’s white noise. This is what they want you to believe, it is not the real goal, the real goal is the oppression of women.
    Like I said before, No all powerful creator would first create women and then tell them to cover up. That is silly. Do you think God or Goddesses are silly?
    If our hair was so dangerous or sinful he/she could make us bald. If our skin is so sinful he/she could have us be born with fur.
    It’s nonsense!
    And to somebody who sees how these gods are made up through time, how religions evolve and change and adapt to what men want it is evil.
    All suppression of women is inherently evil. And male invented. And it starts with dress restrictions. Dress restrictions are the first rung on the ladder to hell.
    Going down.

    So seeing a woman with her sinful nasty female shape, skin and hair covered up makes me sick, and is deeply offending to me.

    And the fairy tales of gods and prophets and the made-up reasons they invented to make women think they need to bury themselves prematurely in fabric is offending to me too.

    I really mean this: it makes me feel sick, it offends me, it insults me as a woman. And it should insult all men for implying that they cannot behave in a civilized, decent, honorable manner towards women.

    Maybe the primitive, barbarian, dimwitted, boneheaded, yokels Mohammed dealt with had a problem with women, but normal, advanced, modern, civilized, mentally and sexually healthy men do not.
    As you can see for yourself in the Civilized West. Everybody is sitting peacefully on the grass in front of my house, in bikinis and swimming trunks, reading books, enjoying the sun, getting some vitamin D into their systems.
    And just imagine: nobody gets raped.

  68. as for me i can’t say that i support The Muslim Women … i mean would never wear something like that or behave like they are… although i think we can’t judge people who have such beliefs “many man many minds”

  69. @Aafke,
    I see no reason to get offended because someone has different religious views as me as long as they are not inhibiting my right to freedom of religion. Which is perhaps what makes me American. :D

    There are a lot of things people believe (not always about religion specifically) that I disagree with. The thing is that I understand they believe differently and that is okay. If they don’t like the way I believe and try to infringe on my freedom, I simply quit talking with them.

    However, government enforcement of religion is altogether a different story. There is a fine balance between respecting the culture of a different country and also balancing freedom for all peoples.

    If someone else thinks that wearing the abaya and niqab makes them more religious than me, whatever. What they think about me is not really my business. Some people got offended because I was homeschooled for part of my life. Some people got offended by the way I choose to dress, act, etc. to include whether or not I wear makeup. The truth is, some people get offended easily. It’s not my business to police the world and tell them that my way is the only one right way because it’s not. What works for me may not work for another person. And you know what? As long as no one is infringing on another person’s right to “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” and all that, I think the differences can be a very beautiful thing.

  70. Strange One, but they will not leave you alone. That is something religious people do not seem able to do, leaving other people alone.
    As you are American you should know that, you have to be pretty blind not to be aware of that, in America the religious faction are always trying to tell everybody else what they should do, how they should live their lives, how and when they should procreate, whom they can marry and who cannot marry etc.

    And as soon as Muslims feel they are in a mojority they start pestering all women to cover themselves. For example in London, there are places where women who don’t tow the line are not safe anymore.

    It’s exactly the weak, wishy-washy, ”I am so politically correct” mindset you display here which is responsible for people in the West loosing their freedoms and liberties to the evil religious suppressors.

  71. Aafke,
    I don’t have an “I am so politically correct” mindset; I have a “Live free or die” mindset. And as long as ultra-religious people aren’t infringing on my freedoms, I believe it is their right to live how they want. I don’t care if people have different opinions than me or try to dress differently, but I am very intolerant when they act racist and try to tell me how I (or others) should live. However, they can think what they want to as long as they don’t actually try to harm me or those I love. Family or no, if someone doesn’t treat me or my loved ones right, I just won’t talk to them anymore. I dealt with adversity on a daily basis when I was younger. Sometimes, I still have to deal with it because of the wide range of people I know. However, I still value their freedom to believe how they want as long as it’s not hurting me above valuing regulating everything and forcing people who are different to conform to a standard way of life.

    However, if I believe someone is being prejudiced against another person for race, religion, etc. I won’t tolerate it. Maybe it’s because I’ve been teased a lot in the past and have had to overcome a lot of tense situations dealing with prejudiced people.

    I guess what I’m saying is when you start regulating things such as how people dress, the world loses some of its flavor.

    My stance is not wishy-washy; my stance is very strong, but very open. If I sound politically-correct, it is because I was trained to be. I’ve been through a lot in my short time here on earth so far, although a lot of other people I know have been through more.

  72. There are so many Muslim countries such as Pakistan, Turkey, Syria, Egypt, etc, etc where women do not cover up from head to toe. This video is misleading.

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