Saudi Arabia: The Kingdom & Crime – A Contradiction

Two articles from competing newspapers appear on the same day which contradict each other on safety and crime.   This article in Arab News talks about an increase in crime in Riyadh.  The areas and neighborhoods which the article cites as seeing an increase in crimes such as robberies are also areas which have been known for many years to be less than safe.

In my own opinion though the Saudi police need to be both more pro-active and just plain active in combating crime.  For example, I have known of multiple individuals who have been the victim of crime yet when these incidents were reported, the police failed to show at the scene.  In one case where a couple’s estraha was broken in to while they were sleeping and items stolen, after multiple calls for the police to come to the scene, the police finally instructed the couple to come to the police station to file their complaint!  The police had no interest to come to the scene of the crime!

The other article appeared in the Saudi Gazette with the lofty subject “Kingdom has World’s Lowest Crime Rate.”  That’s quite a contrast from Arab News title “Saudis, Expats Report Rise in Crime Incidents in Riyadh.”  However, once you read the Saudi Gazette article it becomes clear that it is only a short piece about forensic medicine.  The Director of the Saudi Forensic Medicine Association claims that the Kingdom has the lowest rates of extortion, rape and murder.  After that blanket statement the article then segues to forensic medicine and how this field will soon be completely Saudized.

I’d like to add that compared to many other countries in which I have lived or traveled, I always felt safe in Saudi Arabia.  I used common sense and stayed clear from areas known for petty crime.

So, all in all, it was an entertaining morning reading the competitive English dailies of the Kingdom.

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50 Responses

  1. You will never get accurate crime reports in Saudi. Particular when it comes to women. In fact crime against women could be extemely high however it is not often reported due to honor or shame or the woman will be held accountable for the criminals behavior.

    They can’t even deal with the traffic problems adequately, do you really think they can deal with investigating crimes. Again, how does a women even report a crime if it must be sanction by her owner anyway? See the problem.

  2. I’ll FULLY agree with bigsitck here. Utterly.
    PART of crime is the “crime” of beating the dog crap out of the religious police when one’s wife, daughter or sister is accosted and said individual is left tied up on the side of the road in the desert.
    For crimes against WOMEN, forget about it, overall, it’d be the same as the Vatican response to children being raped by priests.

    As for traffic I’d point to the KSA for traffic enforcement that WORKED, a fair amount. OTHER issues still remain.
    OK, frankly, my wife REFUSED to try for a drivers license, as she SAW what the roads were like and declined to risk herself.

    Bigstick, if a crime were committed against my wife, we’ll suffice to to say that the NATION would happily pay blood money AND eliminate the criminal.
    I’m BOTH that Sicilian AND that nasty and easily “invisible”, when necessary. I don’t LIKE doing such things, but recognize what is necessary in certain situations and simply follow the most effective things of my training.

    And to be blunt, bigstick, I refrained from responding to your previous response, as we mutually agree to mutually disagree. Where that ends is up for the future.
    YOU claim me delusional. I claim the very same thing and provide EVIDENCE.
    You STILL simply denounce.
    IF you ever find a REASON to disagree, I’ll happily consider it and if I find grounds, will happily consider your opinion.
    So far, you’ve only denounced and pronounced “insanity” or something. I could do the same, but I refuse to demean myself that way.
    I happily suggest the scientific method for proofs of our differing beliefs, as I see a LOT of commonality, but some fascism in your views, due to some pollution in your information input.
    My input is rather not able to be revealed, lest I have an adjoining cell with Manning.
    As I gave my word of honor, I’ll not risk the latter.

  3. There must be a reason why police enforcement is slack other than the problem for women because….they have fewer legal rights than men in Saudi Arabia.

    Or what the court system in Saudi Arabia is like. Is there a Western style judicial system?

  4. LOL, meanwhile here in Canada the media/public is wondering if the police are paid too high or at least the police dept. budgets get fattened without the public questioning why. (Police officers because of strong unions, can rack up over time pay.)

    But at least law enforcement isn’t slack in the way described in Saudi Arabia.

  5. No; the judicial system is not Western!

  6. The crime rate and the rate of reporting crime are certainly two different statistics as I believe the previous posters are noting. If the police do not respond effectively to reports of crime, it makes sense that people would be less likely to contact the authorities.

    And as women are considered guilty of walking around naked under their clothes, it can be expected they are less likely to report assault – irk!

    Nice topic here Bedu!

  7. I also wonder how much bribery goes in KSA? I know it does. I know people who have bribed the police when their underage child was caught driving and bribes were paid for the same crime several times over. You can also guarantee that anyone related to the royal family (and that covers a lot of people) have literally gotten away with murder.

    Crimes against women are assuredly under-reported as the women would probably be found guilty for causing the crime against her.

    Canada has been in the news a few too many times of late for misbehaviour but the majority are hard-working people who respond quickly and definitely are not to be feared.

  8. I’ve never needed police response in saudi , so i can’t comment, although i have heard from friends it’s a bad bad idea to go report crimes against someone with wasta .

    if you think police in saudi is not up to par, try calling an abulance :-) or emergent services … you’re much better off walking bare foot .

  9. You are so right, Radhaa. For some reason drivers have not learned the meaning of getting out of the way for ambulances in Saudi. Plus the overall lack of addresses does not help if one needs an ambulance either.

  10. ”And as women are considered guilty of walking around naked under their clothes”

    Woehahahahaaaaaa!

  11. Carol, you certainly get us thinking. I’ll bet there are a ton of anecdotes that people could tell but won’t post here. : )

  12. When compared to the rest of the world, Saudi Arabia does infact haven lower crime rates. One should be content with the simple fact that there isn’t a rape or murder every second. And on the subject of the police not arriving on time? Well, Saudis were never know for punctuality, lol.

  13. The article had touched on a major point that over shadows Saudi culture, yes that includes the government. It is reactive, never pro active. To suggest that the police need to be more pro active is an understatement. I generally takes a major event to even get them to react.
    Bribery is not the issue when it comes to getting out of a crime, it is purely a wasta deal in KSA.

  14. Actually the legal status of women is a crime continually in progress. Just this one factor and all its manifestations, makes KSA a pretty high crime country if you ask me. I mean that’s 50% of the population right there!

  15. Kareen:

    Well, it helps when rape is not a crime, bribery is not a crime, wife beating is not a crime, deceptive practices and price rigging is not a crime, reckless driving is not a crime per say, child abuse is not a crime, sexual assaults are to women and children are not a crime, stalking is not a crime, doing away with report records if you have enough influence is allowed to hid the crime, and well insert what else is not a crime that I have not stated. Oh, let’s not forget that the government imprisons women in effect jail them and force them into slavery child like condition and treat them worse than animals. Endorsed slavery – All not a crime. In other countries all of this is a crime.

    Then it is allowed to harass non-muslim and of course encourage, jail children (women 35 years old) for being disobedient to their father because they want to live their own life, kill witches (let us never forget the 5 day training course on how to deal with this issue – I am serious), arrest people who text a mild item deemed to insult a supposed dead non-existent prophet of hate, and call for the destruction of property such as churches.

    Again, this is not a crime. So there you have it the reason for a low crime rate is due to all vices are allowed and if you particular as a woman or a poor non-influential person complain you will be beaten, jailed, tortured or murdered. Guess what this is not a crime in Saudi as it is hidden and if the media brings it up they are thrown in jail.

    Now since all of this is not deemed a crime then your statement of a low crime rate is dead on.

  16. Sandy, ”Actually the legal status of women is a crime continually in progress. Just this one factor and all its manifestations, makes KSA a pretty high crime country if you ask me. I mean that’s 50% of the population right there!”

    Love this comment!

  17. Bigstick
    Actually, rape and wife beating is a crime from an Islamic point of view. And don’t bring certain suras from the Quran, bc just as many others, you misunderstand what is explained on this subject or refuse to understand. The prophet Muhammad (saw) is our example, and he never beat any of his wives. What you need to do is turn your attention towards the west-were daily, women are beaten up regularly, sometimes even to death by their husbands/boyfriends. And many of those beatings aren’t report by the victims. It’s so easy to talk when you are only on the outside looking. You only get a small glimpse of the picture, one that leads to exaggeration and speculation. You never see the big picture.

  18. Bigstick
    Oh yeah, bribery is infact a crime in Islam, a serious sin to be exact. A sin where the reciever as well as the taker will be punished seriously in the hereafter. Just because one claims to be Muslim, doesn’t necessarily mean that he practises it in accordance to it’s teachings. But you’d know that if you had any real knowledge concerning Islam and not just talking out of pure malice.

  19. @Kareem,
    I do not know if Saudi men are worse or better than other men- some men everywhere will beat women and abuse their children. But the law in Saudi does not protect women or children consistently if it is their mahrem who beats them. Given that this is the case it is generally in the victim’s best interest not to report the crime. Because they will be blamed for shaming the family and nothing will be done anyway so they will be left open to more abuse.

    Also, women here who are raped are also afraid to report the crimes. They may be accused of “zina” and their families will not want it publicly known that the woman was raped. And if it was a family member even worse. There is no comparison between the west and Saudi Arabia when it comes to women’s or human rights.

  20. Bookstores sell out of BESTSELLER advising Muslim men on how to beat and control their wives, according to Sharia guidelines:

    http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2012/03/23/19543371.html

  21. Kareem:

    Your prophet not only hit aisha but he condone wife beating and that is well known in the hadith. It is also a given in the koran. There is no lightly by the way next to beat in the sura.

    You lie to yourself if you think westerns cannot read or understand the koran, hadith, fiqh, etc. You be amazed at just how many of us read your books of of unholy torment.

    As far as the other issues in the US……well they are actually crimes and men/women who commit them go to jail. Depending on the crime they may be very old before they get out.

    Here is the interesting thing the more secular (less religion) the country becomes and the more that is taught that it is unacceptable to do certain actions to the young the less crime we have.

    Religion has taught that men can beat women, sale them into slavery, commit rape, commit child abuse, commit murder, discriminate, regard women as property of men, etc. This is religion and the US is still one of the most religious nations of the western world but that is ending as more and more atheists/agnostic and non-religious are saying, “NO MORE to the unholy abrahamic religions and their hate books.”

    Haven’t you figured out why in the US that the religious are trying hard to fight back yet? Well they know their number are dwindling quickly as more and more people study the books and learn it’s history starting at oh about 4400 bce.

    The less religious and the more secular the better off the world will be. Many people view religion as a hate book filled with the god of evil created by man. Religion is offensive to many people. It is an abmonation, a scourge that has been let loose on humanity and the world. This is religion and the books outline its hate in full detail. Those who are the most religious are generally the most evil of all people and an absolute drain on society as they don’t give anything back but barbarianism and hate. However they want someone to support their lazy no good butts. Just look at Isreal and their religious nutters or where the Taliban sent Afghanistan or where Egypt is quickly going. The more religious the more hatefilled and the closer to the dark ages they become.

    Even Islam’s supposed Golden Age was not due to religion but in spite of it. In fact almost all of those who muslims actually credited as scientists for advancement swere considered heretics during their time. Once the religion took hold nothing of any worth has since come out of Islam.

    Religion has a long hateful, blood, barbaric history and it is well known. Your prophet was a rapist, pedo, murdering, lying, deceptive, thieving, sack of crap. Of course the funny thing is that he is a make believe invention but all the made up stories state his character and the god is an evil vile contstruct as well.

    Oh.. don’t worry Jesus is another one who wasn’t too good either. He was a made up person as well who wanted the world to worship his mortal butt, tore families apart and set brother against brother. At lease this is what the Roman emperor had crafted together and one who left out so much other stuff to ensure a certain spin to assist him in his power grab.

  22. The hadith are:

    B= Bukhari
    M= Muslim

    The Status of women:

    It is the nature of females that most of those in Hell will be women.

    (b1,4,184: B1,12,712; b2,18,156, B 2,18,157; B2, 18,159; B2,8,161, B2, 18, 162; B2,18,164; B3, 40,552; B 4, 54,423, B7 61, 125, B9, 92, 390)

    Women are less intelligent than men:

    (B1,2,28; B1,6,301, B2, 24, 541; B4, 54, 464; B7, 62, 126, B7,76 456, B876,554; B8,76,555)

    The religion of women is controlled by men:

    (B6,61,572: B7,62,120)

    Women are an affliction to men:

    (B4, 52,111: B7,62,30: B7, 62, 31; B7,62, 33 B7, 62, 32: B7,71;649; B7,71, 666)

    A woman, donkey or dog can nullify prayers.
    (B1, 9, 486; B1, 9, 490)

    The most important thing a woman brings to marriage is her vagina:
    (B3,31,129: B7, 62, 81)

    Allah curses the woman who resists sex (martial rape here people):
    (b4,54,460: b7,62,121; B7,62,122)

    Muslim women must be ready for sex upon demand.

    (M008,3363; M008, 3365)

    Woman’s sexuality is a man’s honor or pride and therefore should be controlled and imprisoned at all times.

    (B2,20, 192: B2,20,193, B3,29,85; B3,31,215)

    Only the husband or father can determine who comes into the house:

    (B1,2,53; B2,24,506, B2, 24,518; B2, 24, 520; B2, 24, 521; B2, 24, 524; B3, 34, 279; B3,34, 280 ; B7, 62, 123; b7,64, 273)

    Muslim men’s honor is everything and so when Saed’s threat to kill a man with his wife is not condemned but supported then it states that VIOLENCE IN DEFENSE OF GHIRA is purely ISLAM.
    (B8, 82, 829; B9,93, 512)

    The rights of women who obey men are that she be provided food and shelter. (This is from Ishaq, the sira – 1969)

    Mohammad also told them men had rights over their wives and women had rights over their husbands. The wives were never to commit adultry or act in a sexual manner toward others (Stoning is thte penalty in other hadiths) If they refrained from what was forbidden, they had the right to food and clothing. Men were to lay injuctions on women lightly for there were PRISONERS of men and had no control over their persons.

    (again from the sira, 1967)

    Mohammed sent Muadh to Yemen to proselytize. While he was there he was asked what rights a husband has over the wife. He replied to the woman who asked, “If you went home and found your husband’s nose running with pus and blood and you sucked it until it was cleaned, you still would not have fulfilled your husband’s rights.”

    It gets get better and I have just started. This is just but one sampling of Islam’s form of honor to women and her imprisonment.

  23. Bigstick
    You really do like to cherrypick, don’t you? How about the hadiths that say the man should make sure to please his woman sexually? And the woman is not punished for not providing the husband sex when he asks for it, but is cursed by the angels. And this is mainly because the man might go out and sin to get his satisfaction. Something that happens far too often among nonMuslims. And (saw) never beat Aisha, he may have hit her with straw, but that was it. And the hit was never violent. I mean, come on! How much damage can straw do? Also, I’ve never heard of a woman dog or donkey before
    lol. And as a mater of fact, all dogs, male or female will ruin your prayes. And I’ve never heard of the donkey thing.

  24. Bigstick
    You really do like to cherrypick, don’t you? How about the hadiths that say the man should make sure to please his woman sexually? And the woman is not punished for not providing the husband sex when he asks for it, but is cursed by the angels. And this is mainly because the man might go out and sin to get his satisfaction. Something that happens far too often among nonMuslims. And (saw) never beat Aisha, he may have hit her with straw, but that was it. And the hit was never violent. I mean, come on! How much damage can straw do? Also, I’ve never heard of a woman dog or donkeybefore lol. And as a mater of fact, all dogs, male or female will ruin your prayes. Also, I’ve never heard of the donkey thing. And about women being the majority in hell? Just look around you at how so many women use their charms, walking around half naked whoring themselves, acting like completesluts. Also, among those women in the fire will be those ungrateful to their husbands, and those who hold their children as ransom. Something which happens way to often in this time and era.
    * How can I delete the post before this ones, I hit post comment by mistake the first time. :(

  25. Kareem apparently you are not aware of you source material.

    Beating the wife:

    Koran verse 4:34 ( NO Lightly in front of beat in the koran)

    Last sermon given by Mohammed:

    Beating the wife is sacred because both Allah and Mohammed sanction it not only in the koran but it is supported by the hadith as follows:

    A wife has her face bruised from being hit by her husband and Mohammad does not condemn it even after Aisha calls attention to the COMMON mistreatment of muslim women.

    (B3, 25, 607: B7, 63, 187; B763, 190: B7, 63, 238: B7, 72, 684; B7, 72, 715; B8, 73, 107)

    Mohammad doesn’t condemn the fact that Abu Jahm beats his wives.

    (M-009, 3527; 3512; 3526)

    Here is where Abu Jahm beat women with a stick and it still was not disapproved by Mohammed.

    (M009, 3512)

    Here is where it sanctions that a woman can be beaten but not in the face.

    Abu Dawud 11, 2137

    Here is some more on it being okay to beat women.

    Abu Dawud 11, 2141

    Mohammed hits aisha:

    Muslim 004, 2127

    Mohammed didn’t complain when Abu Bakr hit his daughter Aisha:

    (b5, 27, 21; B5, 57, 117; B6, 60, 131: B7, 72, 770: B8, 82, 828: B660, 132,: B8, 82, 828: B1 7, 330: B1, 7, 330)

    Sharia Law (Fiqh)
    m10.12 Dealing with a Rebellious Wife.

    There is the whole thighing of infants that I could education you on.

    But I will stop here. Again this is just a few portions I can keep going.

  26. Bigstick
    Some of those hadith that you posted are weak, the one about the woman, donkey, and dog nullifying the pray especially. That hadith was refuted by the mother of Muslims, Aisha (ra) herself. As she used to lie between Muhammad (saw) and the qibla as he prayed. And he never signaled for her to move. And there are other examples. So it’s best not to cherrypick stuff from books which are targeted at spreading falsehood in an attempt to make yourself appear knowledgeable. It will only make you appear hateful.^^

  27. Your really don’t understand do you. Whether weak or not it is in the books and there are many who use it to their benefit and to hurt people by. You yourself have already prove what you are by your hatred of women and their worth.

    By the way, weak or not makes no difference it is in your sources of Islam and from some of the most reliable sources. I did not make them up I only use your books against you as you use your book against homosexuals, women, children and non-muslims.

  28. Bigstick
    It’s you who doesn’t understand, sister. It doesn’t matter if someone uses those weak hadiths to justify their actions, the bottom line is that they are weak-and if one does his/her reaserch, they would know that. all hadiths have a chain of narration and depending on that chain, as well as many other hadiths from more trustworthy companions of the prophet such as Aisha (raw), those hadiths reported by less trustworthy individuals can be proven to hold no water. It’s just that many haters of Islam, such as Robert Spencer, like to cherry-pick the weak hadiths in order to slyly mislead people. If one is only looking for something negative to say or right about any religionor belief system, they will look only for that. And even if they did find something to prove them wrong during their search, they will merely pay it no attention.

  29. Bigstick
    And by they way, I don’t hate women. So what makes you say that? On the contrary, I love women. What I hate are devious, lying, hateful, scheming, men and woman who are only here with the intent to spread lies and hatred. So don’t say something about me that just isn’t true. ^^

  30. Kareem
    Bigstick is on a roll with her militant atitude.i advice u to ignore her bcoz it is people like this who makes tolerance of diversity an impossible feat.she attacked an author of a blog n smugly question that author’s decision to raise her child in Saudi.she attacks people left n right under the pretence of saving humanity.there was a man who behaved like this,having his own ideology of the correct way of life,rejecting any other way but his,an extremist who brought it upon himself to eliminate other lifestyle and ideology.that man terrorize people,thinking it is his job to command how people should believe.he was osama bin laden.how similiar is this bigstick to the likes of hitler n osama n fanatic sheiks?

  31. Kareem:

    Really, seems to me that you hate women who make there own decisions, independent, intelligent because they don’t dress to a hateful religions version of subjection and oppression. After all they are just awrah, lacking in intelligence and religion.

    By the way I am not a sister.

  32. Mrs. B:

    You are another gate keeper for discrimination, double standards, and judgmental attitudes which enforces a sexual judgement on women that leads to limitations to a woman ability to have equity and equal footing and you endorse a religion that considers you a walking vagina. Awrah.

    By the way, I always love it when muslims try hard to get out of what their books state and re-define their religion when it suits them. Always this but it is not what was meant to be said or it was meant to do this even though it has never done any of that. All the while islamic government, clerics and the schools of islamic law state yes that is what is was meant to do.

    Islam is what Islam does and Islam has been one of the worst offenders for rape, torture, slavery, murder etc.

  33. if according to what bigstick said was true, that Islam ask for the slays of non Muslims, Carol the author of this website would probably not be writing here now would she?she married a Muslim, lived with Muslims, her in laws were Muslims, the entire tribe of her husband were most likely all Muslims and how many chances did they have to “slay” this non Muslim?but Carol has only beautiful memories of her Muslim husband, her Muslim family and talks with love of her husband’s grandmother.then we have Radhaa with her Muslim husband whose children are not even Muslims.surely he would used his surgical skills to “slay” these non Muslims, according to bigstick? how many non Muslims have been killed by Muslims other than extremist?None.Bigstick is an extremist, that’s all, I’d fear for my life if I were to be in front of her.she thinks she is a scholar on Islam merely by her own biased research on the internet and loves to think that she knows more than an actual Muslim. she just doesn’t get it that people just want to live according to their own choosing with religion or not.i say we should just ignore her and any other extremists like her.

  34. Mrs. B:

    I am not a her.

    Just because this happens doesn’t change what the religion states. It just means people have chosen to disregard it.

    Christians and the Jews do that too, they chose to disregard much of what is in their books.

  35. Mrs. B:

    I have more than my research from the internet. I have the books as well. I also have other scholars works on the beginnings of Islam.

    Have you read the fiqh, the Reliance of a Traveller at all?

  36. and i suppose those books and sources were reliable?you chose to back your statements on your website by taking links from answering-islam.com, which is clearly an anti-Islam website that was created by extremists. what does that say about you and your “sources”? IRRELEVANT! i listen to the Quran and read it every single day 3-4 times AT LEAST and follow its teaching but until this day, I have not killed anyone, raped anyone, curse anyone (besides the occasional curse words), enslaved anyone, oppressed anyone and neither has any member of my Muslim community and we are quite religious!why?not because we chose to disregard our religion’s teachings but because there is no such thing in our religion.thats all I have to say and if u still wish to accuse me as a cherry picker, strawberry picker yada yada and continue with your animosity, then by all means, do!

  37. Mrs. B:

    Yes I have the Koran. I have read it numerous times. Are you aware that the Koran wasn’t even codified until the 9th century due to the problems with the text therefore it had thousands of variant readings?

    Are you aware that numerous scholars objected to this codification and they were later silenced or forced to take back their objection?

    Are you aware of the fact that over a third of the koran cannot be deciphered?

    Do you even know what the Reliance of the traveller is ?

  38. Bigstick
    ” I have more than my research from the internet.”
    And that’s just it-you are getting your info hateful sites are merely there to spread lies and misconceptions concerning Islam. It’s clear that you have no real study of Islam and have only carefully cherrypicked want you wanted from various hate filled sites. Everything you search for you do it with a baised mindset. And that alone is a testament to your lack of intelligence.
    Mrs. Bawazir
    I know that I should ignore fundies such as Bigstick, but I just find such people’s ignorance and lack of intelligence quite amusing. ^^

  39. Bigstick
    You a aren’t sister? I’m sorry about the misunderstanding-but I got that idea from what you posted in the section on pregnant mothers left behind by Saudis:
    “I am so glad you asked. My husband is virile, rugged, handsome, muscular, exciting, tall, confident, well-endowed, exceptional in his performance to fully gratitify all needs.”
    So if you aren’t a sister-(insert Arnold voice here), What the hell are you?!?

  40. Games People Play …..

    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Games-Muslims-Play.htm

    Given Islam’s violent history and the unfavorable contrast of its oppressive practices against 21st century values, Muslims are hard-pressed to repackage their faith in the modern age. Some of its leading apologists have come to rely on tricks involving semantics and half-truths that are, in turn, repeated by novices and even those outside the faith.

    This exposes some of these games and helps truth-seekers find their way through the maze of disingenuous (often blatantly false) claims about Islam and its history:

    “If Islam were a violent religion, then all Muslims would be violent.”

    “Other religions kill, too.”

    Muhammad preached ‘no compulsion in religion’ (Qur’an: 2:256)

    The Crusades

    “Muhammad never killed anyone.”

    The Qur’an Teaches that all Life is Sacred (Qur’an 5:32)

    “Muslims only kill in self-defense.”

    The million dollar wager that “Holy War” isn’t in the Qur’an.

    “Verses of violence are taken out of context.”

    “Islam must be true, because it is the world’s fastest growing religion.”

    “The Qur’an can only be understood in Arabic.”

    ——————————————————————————————-
    People Never Do Evil So Completely And So Cheerfully As When They Do It In The Name Of Their Religion — Blaise Pascal

  41. Dishonest Abe, no one is playing tricks of words except you here!It is not anyone’s fault if you have a hard time understanding the Quran.And yeah, versus of violence have been taken completely out of historical and situational context. Give me one verse of the Quran that you think is about violence and I’ll explain it to you because as someone who reads the Quran on a daily basis and implementing them in my life, I think I could be rather knowledgeable on this topic. The idea that Islam was spread by the sword is a common slander by enemies of Islam,accusing that people converted to Islam because they were forced to do so. It allows people like Abe to explain the
    otherwise fact that so many people converted to Islam. Indonesia is the country with the largest Muslim community, please tell me which warlord went on a conversion rampage there.Majority of people in Malaysia are Muslims, again which Muslim army came and invaded the Malays?the effect of Islam on the population was one of MORAL CONVICTION, in contrast to occupation by western colonialists, finally compelled to leave lands whose peoples held only memories of affliction, sorrow, subjugation and oppression.Muslims ruled India for about a THOUSAND years, and therefore had the power to force each and every non-Muslim of India to convert to Islam, but they did not, and thus more than 80% of the Indian population remains non-Muslim. So, Abe, your claim that Islam has always had a violent history really does not add up! Today the fastest growing religion in America and Europe is Islam. The Muslims in these lands are a MINORITY. The only sword they have in their possession is the sword of truth. It is this sword that is converting thousands to Islam.

  42. Kareem:

    That post was to Gia and she knew I was a man. She was going on about my husband as a dig or insult. Therefore I described myself and then asked her about her wife. Since she (a wife) has been described in the past as a married gold digger.

    Now go back and re-read the section again with that understanding.

  43. Mrs. B:

    I also have friends that are muslim (sort of) there family is muslim they are more the in name only. Oh, talked to many converts (nutters most of them).

    In addition, I have been sent to numerous websites that MUSLIMS endorse. I assure you that these websites haven’t helped the cause of Muslims.

    Next, I don’t know if you can actually state that Islam is the fastest growing religion as 2/3rd of all converts leave the religion within the first three years. Then in countries such as Saudi, Malaysia, Yemen, pakistan, etc. you can be killed, imprison or tortured or all three for being an apstate. Heck they are even through Atheist in jail in Muslim countries for stating the don’t believe in God.

    You never commented on my questions. Again I ask you do you know what the Traveller of the Alliance is?

    Next where do you go to get your information. Just the koran?

    How about the Life of Muhammad a translation of Ibn Ishaq’s Sirat Rasul Allah written by A. Guillaume?

  44. So what or who is this ”Traveller of the alliance”???
    Is he like ”The Traveller” from Star Trek NG? He was cute!

  45. Bigstick
    “That post was to Gia and she knew I was a man. She was going on about my husband as a dig or insult. Therefore I described myself and then asked her about her wife. Since she (a wife) has been described in the past as a married gold digger. Now go back and re-read the section again with that understanding.”

    Sorry, my bad, but you really didn’t make that quite clear. :-/

  46. Kareem:

    “Bigstick
    “That post was to Gia and she knew I was a man. She was going on about my husband as a dig or insult. Therefore I described myself and then asked her about her wife. Since she (a wife) has been described in the past as a married gold digger. Now go back and re-read the section again with that understanding.”

    Sorry, my bad, but you really didn’t make that quite clear. :-/””

    Apparently. I need to stop trying to be a smart ass as I apparently lack the talent for it.

  47. Aafke:

    The Reliance of the Traveller is called “umdat al-salik” and is said to represent one of the finest and most reliable short works inshafi’i jurisprudence, a school with perhaps fewer scholarly differences on rulings than the others. This is because it’s main resource is the recension of Imam Nawawi, the “great” thirteenth-century Shafi’i hadith scholar and jurisprudent who upgraded the work of previous generations in terms of authenticity and appicationof hadith evidence. The basics of the manual was authored by Ahmad ibn Naqib al Misri (d769/1368). It is said that the present volume is virtually an index of the conclusions of the Majmu and readers interested in the evidence of the Koran and hadith for the rulings of the present volume.

    The book is endorsed by the International Institute of Islamic Thought, the Islamic Fiqh Academy at Jedda, and the Fiqh Council of North America.

    It is stated that approximately 75 to 80 % of Shariah law is taken from this book and it is applied in Saudi Arabia.

    Does this information help?

  48. Yes, thank you. I will look it up.

  49. Does anyone know if this article is true. It is about a 4 year old that killed his father in Saudi over a playstation.

    Here is the article.

    http://news.yahoo.com/saudi-boy-4-kills-father-over-playstation-151551564.html

  50. The story is starting to circulate in more papers, that’s all I can say.

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