Saudi Arabia: Foreign Wives – Don’t Become Too Saudi!

If you know a Saudi man who has taken a foreign wife, why do you think that is?  What is it about the foreign woman that makes the Saudi man want to choose her over a Saudi wife?  It is not as if it is simple to marry a foreign woman either.  For a Saudi man, he must not only obtain governmental approval for the marriage (at least to live together legally in the Kingdom and for her to be recognized as a legal wife) but he probably has to win his family over to the concept of a non-Saudi wife too.

If you are able to ask a Saudi man why he took a foreign wife, he’ll likely say that she met all his desires of what he wants in a woman.  What few Saudi men will say, but probably thought, was that ‘she was not Saudi.’

It’s true.  A lot of the Saudi men who have chosen to take a foreign wife did not want to marry a Saudi woman.  The reasons can vary from having to pay too much for a dowry; too high of expectations for a husband; too many challenges with families; an inability for the Saudi man to be truly himself.

The Saudi man who marries a foreigner probably does not want to have a traditional Saudi life or lifestyle.

Yet most of the foreign women who have married Saudis and go to Saudi Arabia to live with their husband are unlikely to have existing family and friends in Saudi Arabia.  As a result, his family may become her family.  She will also make friends which may be among both the expatriate and the Saudi community.

It’s not surprising that the foreign wife who comes to Saudi Arabia with her husband will want to fit in to the Saudi society and norms.  His family may also, through their welcome of her, take her under their wing and perhaps guide or “train” her of the expectations and customs of the Saudi life.  Over time, as children are born and the years pass by, the foreign wife will have become more Saudi in her ways than those of the country from which she was from.  One can only hope that her husband will have grown and adapted with her.

In some cases, the husband realizes that the foreign woman he loved and married has become a Saudi stranger to him.  What happened to the woman he met and fell in love with because of her differences?  What does the man do in such cases?

This is the time when a Saudi man has been known to take another wife.  He may take a Saudi wife but it seems more likely he will take another foreign wife.  However, instead of a Western wife, the Saudi man may choose to take a non-Saudi Arab as a second wife.

I can state that I have not known a Saudi man who has had more than one Western wife.  It seems that Saudi men who have first married a Saudi wife will choose either another Saudi wife or a foreign wife.  Whereas Saudi men who have married a foreign wife first will seem to choose another foreign wife as a second wife.

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187 Responses

  1. interesting post…..

  2. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of one case of this happening here. I think usually the Saudi man marries the foreigner because he had a chance to get to know her and he falls in love. Many times the Saudi husband is upset because the western wife doesn’t adapt enough. And then he often gets a proper second wife who knows the right way to behave. I think that better explains the second wife never being western (or almost never).

  3. “And then he often gets a proper second wife who knows the right way to behave.”
    Please explain what a “proper” second wife would be. Also what is the “right way to behave”?

  4. One who dresses properly, doesn’t speak to non related men, knows Arabic, obeys his mother, obeys him, will have as many children as possible and raise them with proper Saudi perspective,, doesn’t have friends he doesn’t like, cooks the type of food he likes and runs a household that caters to his needs.

  5. I think this post was inspired by The Ruins of Us, rather than reality. I haven’t heard of any Western women married to Saudi say that their hubands are uncomfortable with how much they have adapted, in fact- there are always areas in which the Western wife feels western- often 30 years and 5-6 kids later.

    I agree with Sandy, usually Saudi men marry a foreigner its beacuse he has the chance to get to know her and fall in love, and that isn’t possible with Saudi woman.

  6. “The Saudi man who marries a foreigner probably does not want to have a traditional Saudi life or lifestyle.”

    It would be nice if that were true, but you’re giving many of them too much credit for rational thought and planning – especially the younger ones who meet and marry their wives while they’re in the US attending college. For them, if they want a relationship (marital or otherwise), foreign women are the only ones they have access to, so that’s who they’re going to end up involved with. In most cases, it’s an adaptation to circumstances, not a well-thought-out choice about which culture they prefer. If they really preferred the Western lifestyle to the Saudi lifestyle, they would have chosen to stay in the West, and this discussion would be moot.

    I’m not just picking on Saudis here – in general, I’m amazed by the number of people (of both genders and all nationalities!) who think they can marry someone from a different culture and different religion, then have exactly the lifestyle they would have had if they’d married the boy or girl they grew up next door to. It just doesn’t work that way.

  7. interesting post and comments!

  8. I wouldn’t say my husband ever intentionally was looking to marry a foreign wife. Before we met he had his life planned, to some day marry a Saudi woman his mother chose and to live a typical Saudi life..

    But then he met me and things just happened differently, we got to know each other and fell in love. Neither of us planned it.

    I have heard of some western wives of Saudis becoming “too Saudi” as Carol put it. Meaning, they become extremely religious, and traditional almost fanatic, start wearing saudi traditional house dresses only and scarves in the house and outside they go for over the head abaya and gloves, cook only Saudi foods, start viewing everything as haram like tv, music,computer, makeup,pictures..Like all life has been sucked out of them.

    No wonder if the man chooses to look for a second wife if he has lost that woman he married.
    Not that it’s any excuse though.

  9. Sandy- lol at the “proper wife” requirements:
    One who dresses properly, doesn’t speak to non related men, knows Arabic, obeys his mother, obeys him, will have as many children as possible and raise them with proper Saudi perspective,, doesn’t have friends he doesn’t like, cooks the type of food he likes and runs a household that caters to his needs.

    I don’t meet any of these :) well I’m not sure what dresses properly means but I assume niqab?I do speak arabic but not fluent lol

  10. There’s an even greater chance of marrying a saudi man and he doing an about turn as soon as he sets foot in saudi soil. :-) i’ve met men in saudi & i barely recognize them here in the US. the reverse is more shoking ot the wife i assume.

    In a mixed marriage there is going to be more assimilation by one side depending on where they choose to live. Personally a neutral 3rd country keeps thngs in balance else one has to always adjustt o where they live and try to fit in, nothing wrong in that i think.

  11. @sandy – when you put the requirements that way, it makes me shudder :-)

  12. Yes; reading ‘The Ruins of Us’ made me think about plural marriages in Saudi Arabia and what I had seen.

    I do agree that the Saudi who marries a foreign woman (Western) does so because of what he feels for her. I think too that an older Saudi man may choose to marry a Western woman because he is not a traditional Saudi man.

    It does make me wonder…who fears more of the husband taking another wife… the foreign wife or the Saudi wife?

  13. Those Saudis, who choose to marry a foreign wife, have certain qualities in mind that they seek to find in there perspective wives that could not be found in Saudi women, or perceived that Saudi women are lacking. You know the Saudi society does not allow mingling of the sexes. So, both sexes are strangers and enigma to one another.

    The desired qualities of a foreign woman vary from a Saudi to another. For example, I am a Saudi and I desire to marry an American woman specifically, for several reasons. First, most American women are comparable to men. Don’t jump to conclusions and hold your horses. American women are dependable, they stand next to their men and are willing to go through thin and thick to overcome almost any social or financial difficulties and can find workable solutions.

    Second, American women put efforts into understanding cultural differences; they take time to absorb a culturally awkward behavior or situation and dissect it to its basic elements and understand it within its cultural context. In other words, most American women are not judgmental, they are deep.

    Third, American women enjoy being women. They are romantic when they need to be, and they are serious and hard working when they have to be.

    There are other important desired qualities in American women, I gave these examples only just to show how some male Saudis think when they decide to marry a non-Saudi.

    I am still looking for my American woman.

  14. Sunni Side Up….cool and creative alias.

  15. @ Sandy,

    I think the notion of “Proper Behavior” is a little problematic. It has a meaning of total obedience that is tantamount to servitude. Most Saudis, especially those who think of marrying a Western woman, don’t think this way and don’t accept it for their Western wife or any wife for that matter.

    Once a Western wife covers her hair with a scarf and her body with an abbayah that’s enough, and she should be within the proper behavior in the public sphere.

    Regarding the family of her husband, most Western women, especially American women are respectful. Respect is one of their obvious qualities. And having this quality, she will earn the respect of her husband’s mother and that of his entire family.

  16. I like the picture of the veiled women in the banner, the veil accentuated her pretty deep blue eyes. My eyes are dark brown.

  17. Al-Zuhayyan,

    Thank you for sharing and welcome to American Bedu blog. I’m sorry for the delay in your comments being posted. Every first time visitor will go into moderation. You will have no difficulty now or delays in having your comments appear.

    I’m curious…while you say that you hope to find an American woman, where are you presently located?

  18. I am located, presently, in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. Do you think it is possible for me to find an American wife in this part of the world???

  19. Al-Zuhayyan:

    Your comments on women are sad and again controlling. They should be just fine in regular normal clothes. This is just psychological control on women which is a constant reminder that she is awrah.

  20. Big Stick,

    I am not holding a big stick to tell women or men what is “Normal Clothing”. The society and the law dictates what is “Normal Clothing” There are standards for what is socially accepted clothing, even in most liberal societies like the US, which has clothing standards.

    Clothing conveys symbolic meanings about the individual and the society in which he/she lives in. Clothing conveys a meaning of status, age, social class, education, and manners. Clothing reveals norms of any particular society.

    I understand that the US applies some rules with respect to clothing in night clubs, restaurants, beaches, schools, department stores, and even in 7/11. These rules reflect the US social norms. I don’t think you can visit these places with non-socially accepted places. A man or woman may not wear the opposite sex’s clothing and could avoid at least the disapproval gaze of the public’s eyes. According to you logic/argument the US society and laws are controlling, but I think you are calling for a lawless society that even does not exist outside the boundaries of rational and the liberal societies (US).

    When I call to uphold the clothing rules of any particular society, I am thinking of those who want to fit in a society without being rejected or thrown in jails, and you may know what may happens to a clean-cut man or elegant woman when visits those US jails.

  21. Al-Zuhayyan,
    I speak as an American wife of more than 20 years- who has actually quite a nice life here. But I stand by my post. This is what many Saudi men want when they marry a second wife.

    And as long as the law supports “servitude” and “total obedience” of women to their “mahrems” (male owners), there will be gross injustice and problems.

    @Bigstick,
    What Al-Zuhayyan described IS “regular normal clothes”- and not nearly so restrictive as some of what you see, even if personally I don’t like it.

    @Carol,
    I think Saudi and Foreign wives fear a second wife roughly equally. But the consequences are more severe for the foreign wife. Either she accepts it or she can divorce and be sent out on an exit-only visa and never see her children again. At least when this happens with a Saudi woman she’s in the same city.

  22. Why bring an america women into your society and take away her freedom to begin with. Why do this to anyone? Wouldn’t it bettrr that you keep to women who are already usrd to the saudi prison for women. Very few american women will be able to tolerate such restrictions.

  23. I believe (and know) that love can happen between Saudis and non-Saudis…even in conservative Riyadh! (smile)

    @Sandy – you are so correct that if a Saudi takes a second wife and the foreign wife does not like it, she has very limited options…especially if there are children. hmmm…I wonder if in the case of divorce, how many Saudi men would have an interest in the divorced foreign wife of a Saudi man?

    @bigstick – A foreign woman is not forced or coerced to follow her husband to Saudi. However, let’s hope she does not have blinders or is naive to how different the culture and customs are. I also give credit to the Saudi man who has obtained the official permission to have his foreign wife with him in Saudi. The bottom line is that each couple need to decide what is best for them and what they wish to do.

  24. I can feel a sentiment of anger and dissatisfaction in your tone about the situation of women, at large, in Saudi Arabia, and I understand it. I usually don’t put myself in the defensive, and I don’t like it, but I do it when I am trying to make a point.

    First of all I am not happy nor satisfied with the way women in general and Saudi women in particular are treated in this society, and your views are not helping. Most of the views I am reading are irrationally critical as if finding faults in this society is the main objective. And I am sure that the intentions of some in here are good, but it is a primary principle: if you criticize even your son or daughter they will fire back with sharper criticism of you with allegations never thought that they exist in their minds.

    Western women were only been able to wear pants in the early 70s in public/government buildings, because wearing pants not to mention the revealing jeans was not socially acceptable.

    Another example, women wearing wigs are labeled in Western societies as being loose women. Women inscribing tattoos on their bodies is still socially unacceptable.

    There are more pressing important issues for women in Saudi Arabia than wearing what you described as restrictive clothing, such as abbayah and a scarf on her hair.

    Tell the catholic nuns to get rid of their restrictive clothing and wear j-string in public, especially while serving in church. We need to be reasonably real.

    The point is dress code is important in any society.

  25. Big Stick,

    The American wife that I will bring into the Saudi society; she would not be abused verbally or physically. More important, she would be in great psychological health as she would be my queen, treating her with respect and constant admiration, because most American women deserve better.

    I would feel being a human because I believe that an American woman knows how to bring out the human nature in me and I would respond accordingly; while some men would respond with distorted understanding of her attempt.

  26. Al-Zuhayyan:

    Go to debate.

  27. Big Stck,

    Go to debate.

  28. Sandy,

    I understand the symbolic meanings of oppression, obedience, and servitude that conveyed to Westerners, including myself, by a covered woman from head to toe, especially in the manner done in some regions of Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, and other countries.

    Some women figured how to go around the abayah that covers them in that manner and made it so it shows their bodies more than it covers, and ultimately sexualized the abayah. However, some addressed wearing abayah as if it is the oppression itself whereas it is a symbol and ignored the real oppression exercised by the religious and social forces in the Saudi society.

    You know it and I know it, women anywhere if they want to show some glimpses of their bodies they would find away, and it is a natural tendency. Again, the issue is not the abayah, it is the oppression.

    I accept the idea that claiming or practicing the treatment of a woman as a queen or princess may be used to numb and manipulate a woman. But the very idea underestimates the brains of Saudi men and women; they know the difference between manipulation and genuine romance.

    Saudi men and women are humans like you and other people around the world, they yearn to love and be loved.

    Dear American Bedu,

    Your feedback points to the fact that there is a universal value shared by all people that that one cannot go around doing whatever he/she pleases. For example, walking naked or topless in the streets, that goes against any norms of any society.

    Some comments with respect to dress code in the US make American look as if they have no norms, and that is not true because it defies common sense.

    Perhaps those comments were stated with abayah in the background that generates negative symbolic emotional feelings in the head and heart of some. But the world is not the Islamic World, specifically Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan.

    To prove the norms of these Islamic societies as being wrong with respect to wearing abayah should not be blinding to the extent to insinuate that the US society – despite of all of its personal freedoms – has no dress code and any one could walk around naked or topless. This way way way out of the realm of rational argument.

    The US society is a Christian society after all.

  29. Al-Zuhayyan:

    Actually it does mean just that. A person can actually walk down the street topless or nude so long as the local laws allow. There are several cities across the US that allow it. Far more for being topless than nude. Most people don’t do this. However, legally in the US in many places it can be done. There is nothing law enforcement will be able to legally as it is not against the law to walk around in this fashion so long as it is written into an ordinance/state law or makes no reference to a minimal dress requirements.

  30. Big Stick,

    I hold great respect for American Bedu.

    The social and political discourse distinguishes the Western civilization, specifically the United States, and it also characterizes the US democratic process. To play democracy in the US, any politician must accept social and political stances that normally do not accept to accumulate the votes of specific groups that are crucial for winning a seat. For example, marriage between the same sex, adoption, abortion, immigration, etc.

    These social issues are the most sensitive and the outcomes of dealing with them are the most unpredictable and can fire back against a candidate unexpectedly. These issues have no solid rational. But is a democratic process, it is a give-take process to reach an agreeable common ground.

    The main stream America has adamant views about marriage between the same sex and abortion that shape the entire political scene. Those in the minority have their views about the same issues. The political process, however, goes on.

    The majority of the cities do not allow nudity, some minority cities allows controlled nudity. These minority cities do not represent the entire US society and it is not the face of America. People in Third World country would see nudists and say look the Americans are decadents; they walk nude in the streets and on beaches. They do not separate the democratic process from the US standard social norms.

    In other words, I still believe that the US society has restricted dress code.

  31. Al Zuhayyan,

    It’s not the way women wear it that sexualizes it. It is the fact they have to wear it. The very compelling of women to cover is sexualization. And women here who have spend time in the west as well know it. No where do the women cover so much and the men stare so much as Saudi.

    Men are totally indulged by the laws here and it spoils them. Just as surely as parents can overindulge and spoil their children. So unfortunately, while there are many decent Saudi men- the law allows those that want to abuse their wives and children, to do so. And because the law allows it- it happens more often. And because a certain percentage of the men are raised to believe it is the right way- it happens more often.

    They know the difference between genuine romance – and the women here know they are owned. If there husband decides to divorce them and keep the children- too bad. If he decides to tell her she can’t work- too bad. If he wants to marry another wife- too bad. It’s hard to have genuine romance under these conditions. Yes some do manage it. But it makes it harder.

  32. Sandy,

    I can say the same thing that the US laws overindulge and spoil American males by allowing them to state and admire the curves and cleavages of females wearing tight tops and jeans, but do not allow women to stare and admire men in the same manner. Men do not have curves or much to stare at so the laws should allow them to show more.

    Since the abayah made Saudi men stare intensely at women, the abayah is not a problem and no need to change Saudi laws. Taking off the abayah would cause more problems, men might attack women in the streets and that is a problem.

    Laws are products of the religious, social, political, and economic norms/ideologies of any society and mandating new laws must consider those norms, or laws would not be in effect. Non-Saudi and non-Muslim women should be allowed to wear decent clothing that they accustomed to.

    Again the issue is not the abayah, the issue is oppression that manifested in not allowing women to drive, find work, participate in public affairs, etc. We want Saudi women like women in the UAE.

  33. That was absolutely ridiculous what you said about US laws overindulging males.

    It is all the same oppression. And I see Saudi men seem magically able to behave when they are in the west. So I suspect they could behave in Saudi as well if they had any respect for Saudi women at all.

  34. Great, Sandy,

    Any foreign should respect the laws, norms, and traditions of the host country, because they are not going to be changed to please the foreign guest’s home-laws.

    Saudis in the US are foreigners and should behave, as Americans should behave when visiting Saudi Arabia because its laws are not going to be changed to please them.

    That’s a common sense.

  35. Just to make sure I am not misunderstanding, I’d like to know what you mean that Saudi would like women like the UAE.

  36. American Bedu,

    “We want Saudi women to be like women in the UAE- United Arab Emirates.”

    There a little typo that is cofusing indeed.

  37. May be I should re-read and revise my comments. These are several typos in them. I apologize for making them.

  38. @Al-Zuhayyan,

    I did understand what you meant by UAE but I’d like to hear more about why Saudi women should be more like women in the UAE. I’ve been to the UAE many times so I am curious by your point of view. (smile)

  39. American Bedu,

    Curiosity kills the cat.

    They look very elegant in abayah, while driving, working, organizing very complex and sophisticated world affairs, and participating in almost every national event.

    Isn’t that nice? They are maintaining their customs and tradition, while being admirably modern women.

    They don’t have to copy Western women in the outlook to be modern; they are comfortable in their own skin.

  40. God I keep making spelling mistakes…wow. May be it is because Sandy and Big Stick (smile)

  41. @Al-Zuhayyan,

    Thank you for your explanation. I thought that was what you meant but I learned long ago to never assume!

  42. American Bedu,

    I learned the same lesson “don’t assume always ask”

    Assumptions can lead to grave misunderstanding and cause losses that can be easily avoided by asking.

    Good night Princess.

  43. Al-Zuhayyan:

    Why not let the women decide what they want to wear? Don’t you trust women to make there own decisions?

    Next, you and I both know men can control themselves. It happens all the time and clothing of any type will not stop someone if they intend on attacking. That has been proven repeatedly. Your society has actually given men an excuse to behave in a manner that is both unnatural and predatorial. You in fact have made men a predator instead of a protector. Your society insults even men.

  44. @Al Zuhayyan
    Your desired qualities list of the “american woman” could apply to any other woman in the world including saudi women…maybe what you prefer in a western wife that saudi women have differently would be physical appearance?
    so what it is really :)

  45. “I can say the same thing that the US laws overindulge and spoil American males by allowing them to state and admire the curves and cleavages of females wearing tight tops and jeans, but do not allow women to stare and admire men in the same manner. Men do not have curves or much to stare at so the laws should allow them to show more.”

    Are you serious? Do you really compare the ability to ogle a sexy girl passing by to the ability to unilaterally divorce a woman and take her children away? To stop her from working? from traveling?

    From your writing here I would have thought you’re too intelligent to seriously mean that. But maybe I’m wrong.

    Second, you’re being ridiculous. There’s no law that dictates who should stare at whom here in the U.S. If I want to stare at a sexy guy across the street, there’s no law to stop me. Jeez man. Learn to make better jokes.

    Third, yes, men do have something to stare at, and I help myself. You must be straight so you obviously men don’t rock your boat. But I assure you there’s plenty of staring at men going on.

  46. Al-Zuhayyan,
    1. It is my opinion that Muslims aren’t very good at respecting laws, norms, and traditions of other countries, particularly the ideas of freedom of speech and religion. They just cant accept that we have a right to criticize their religion, their dear prophet and them. Worse yet, many westerners seem to think that we need to bend over backwards for any non Judeo-Christian ideology. This is not going to end well.
    2. The burden of ‘morality’ is always imposed on Women in Islam. Muslim men do what they like, only observing a few silly rituals. In fact, rituals and appearances (clothes) have very little to do with morality. I can easily prove a woman in a bikini to usually be morally superior to one in a burka or abayah. Isca.
    3. Bella is right. American women are no different from any others, except that they are in my opinion too ‘masculinzed’. For all intents and purposes, the post modern liberal woman hates being female. (That is always a good way to start a nice evening with liberal friends). It sounds like you want a green card, not a wife.

    Actually, one thing that draws women to Arabs (my opinion) is that they are real men and make no excuses about it. They are not the usual soft, wishy-washy go-goody sorry specimen that is the typical modern Western male.

    Is there anybody here that I have not yet offended?

  47. PS: They are not the usual soft….. I forgot to add “Except with their mothers.”

  48. NN:

    He wasn’t joking. You can take that to the bank. Apparently, though he is capable of determining what women find sexy about men. Maybe he is just in tune with his feminine side.

    Jay:

    Way to go you have pissed off both men and women in America. I really don’t care if you pissed him off or not.

    Here is my question to you Jay, how would you really know about Arab men? :) Maybe for them it is all talk and no action. Recently, I read where they have difficult time performing and Arab countries are well known for their over consumption of viagra. I am not kidding.

  49. I found the date that this problem was discussed it was September 10, 2011 on American Bedu. Also Laylah, gave some very interesting websites regarding the problem.

    Many times individuals put up a fake fascade to hid a growing problem. I wonder if all the postering and keeping women subjugated has more to do with the men’s insecurities as Saudi has an unnatural enviroment that very well could foster these issues due to the lack of normal socialization.

  50. Big,

    True. Men are not my cup of tea. Yet it seems that very often foreign men, including Muslims, attract women. I think that the sorry state of maleness in America is part of this. American men are afraid to be men. There is a spanish word for this – mandilon. There is also an old vulgar American expression used to describe male subordination to women (it ain’t wimp, either) that might fit.

    Why am I always defending Muslims?

    As the performance of men, I have no idea how the others do, but I guess it is pretty much the same story everywhere. Are you telling me that most men, even old guys, can’t keep the make the pump going all night and into the next day, non-stop?

  51. Jay
    It is one thing to get women attracted to you it is another to keep them. Saudi has a higher divorce tha n.the US as i recall it was 62%ours is 50% and steady theirs is actually rising. I am not going to expand on the old man pump thing i think i will just leave that alone. :)

  52. I knew a young man from Riyhad and we were friends on skype for a long time. We got along very well, and I felt romantic about him. When he came to America, it was completely different. He expected me to be Saudi when I am American. So sad, too bad.

  53. When my husband and I were seeing each other but not yet married, I was asked often by American guys if I considered myself too good for an American guy!

    In fact, my late husband and I shared the same values, goals and many common interests. It didn’t matter that he was from Saudi Arabia and I was from the USA. We clicked. We weren’t starry eyed young kids either. Both of us were professional adults and comfortable with who we were.

  54. Bella-Vita

    My desired qualities can only be found in American women. I know the qualities of British women, Swedish women, and Arab and Saudi women.

    Physical appearance as being black, white, brown, dark brown, and yellow, can be an attraction and that is natural, that’s why God created us in different variations of color. We all know that most males from Third World countries are attracted to White women, and White women are attracted to dark men, especially those from southern Italy, Spain, and the Middle East, but lately they shun away from Middle Eastern men because they are Muslims.

    However, I am not attracted to American women, specifically White women because of their color. After a while one (men and women) gets used to the color but the spirit remains. I am attracted to them because of the qualities I desire in them.

    @NN,

    You are confused. You are ridiculously conjuring up issues. Separate the issues methodologically and respond to each one to be sensible. Wearing Abayah is an issue, taking children away from their mothers is an issue, and driving is another issue.

    Therefore, you don’t have point of view.

    @ Jay kactuz,

    I have studied Christianity and Judaism and I can criticize rationally these religions and shack them to their basic cores and make them look as if they are cults in the name of freedom of expressions, but I willingly chose not.

    I can start by criticizing Jesus Christ. However, it is not right to use human intelligence to criticize and religion on the name of freedom of expression.

    @ Big Stick,

    I don’t know how you can be living in the US, you are a burden and a liability.

    @ Gwendolyn,

    Saudi women are women like American women. In what why your Saudi guy wants you to be as a Saudi woman that is different from American woman? Wearing abayah, for example? I am trying to help you out.

  55. @Al Zu

    I understand. You are embarrassed because you were called on your total lack of sense, and you’re trying to wiggle out of it by attacking. No so soon, little one. This is what got said:

    Sandy, on February 3, 2012 at 12:06 am said:

    Al Zuhayyan,

    Men are totally indulged by the laws here and it spoils them. So unfortunately, while there are many decent Saudi men- the law allows those that want to abuse their wives and children, to do so. And because the law allows it- it happens more often. If there husband decides to divorce them and keep the children- too bad. If he decides to tell her she can’t work- too bad. If he wants to marry another wife- too bad.

    Al-Zuhayyan, on February 3, 2012 at 12:54 am said:

    Sandy,

    I can say the same thing that the US laws overindulge and spoil American males by allowing them to state and admire the curves and cleavages of females wearing tight tops and jeans, but do not allow women to stare and admire men in the same manner. Men do not have curves or much to stare at so the laws should allow them to show more. END QUOTE

    As you can see, the conjuring is all yours. Sandy pointed out very real ways in which Saudi laws indulge men. You then purported to say “the same thing” by making up ridiculous, non-existing laws in the U.S. that allegedly allow men to admire female form and deny the same to women.

    Just for the record – for the complete avoidance of doubt – just so that there is no confusion whatsoever – there are no laws on the books in the U.S. that preclude anyone from staring at anyone. Saudi does, however, have laws that allow men to exercise near-complete control over their better halves. Even if these laws did exist, there would still be no comparison between them.

    Whatever did you mean by that ridiculous comparison?

    By the way, the word you’re looking for is “point.” Not “point of view.” As in, “you don’t have a point.” Not “you don’t have a point of view.” Everyone has a point of view. Point-holders are much less common. If you want to marry an American girl, you should brush up on your English.

  56. P.S. What is it wrong to use human intelligence to criticize religion? Why is religion suddenly immune from criticism?

  57. Al-Zuhayyan:

    Wow. You have giving me so much to work with on your last post. Of course, it has taken me a little while to stop laughing. Let’s start with this one, why don’t we.

    “I can start by criticizing Jesus Christ. However, it is not right to use human intelligence to criticize and religion on the name of freedom of expression.”

    Okay first up. Please feel free to go to the debate page and criticize Jesus Christ all you want, it will not bother me in the slightest. Next what do you use your human intelligence for, if not to criticize and re-evaluate situations, topics, surroundings, and yes the non-touchable religions. Next up, what do you think freedom of expression is? Follow the leader or something, what?
    Let’s look at your next statement.

    “Physical appearance as being black, white, brown, dark brown, and yellow, can be an attraction and that is natural, that’s why God created us in different variations of color. We all know that most males from Third World countries are attracted to White women, and White women are attracted to dark men, especially those from southern Italy, Spain, and the Middle East, but lately they shun away from Middle Eastern men because they are Muslims.”
    So you are an expert on who is attracted to who. This says so much on your view point of women. Most males from third world countries are attracted to white women, why? Is it a social status symbol or something? I really think this is a very telling statement on your character. So , is this why you want an American woman …for status?

    Here is some critical thought moments , what happens to middle eastern women who most men don’t want as they want white women? Is that a 2nd, 3rd or 4th wife. Is that the objective. Go out get the status symbol then marry additional women and once the American woman is n Saudi (world’s largest known female prison) then she has no say whatsoever? So what about the white guys, what do they get?

    Next statement:

    “My desired qualities can only be found in American women. I know the qualities of British women, Swedish women, and Arab and Saudi women.”

    So just how experienced are you on all these women? Why is an American woman your desired target? Is it what Jay stated, a green card or is it a status symbol. Of course now earlier you stated that you would like women like UAE. My the information that I could extrapolate from this statement.
    Just how much experience and knowledge do you have with all of these women to know that American women fit your “DESIRED” qualifications?

    I don’t think NN is confused. You see dictating what a woman wears is a small step to erosion of her freedom similar to the frog in the boiling water situation. Slowly turn up the heat and by the time the frog knows it is in trouble it is too late. One of the first steps a controlling domineering male does is start with the small things like a women’s dressing habits. Once he has this under control then he moves on to other areas of domination by the time she realizes what is going on, she has been dominated and is under his control. I have seen this many times in domestic violence cases. Typically of power hungry, domineering personality types.

    Hey, I am glad you can share your opinion on what you think about me. I sure you can read between the lines for my thoughts.

  58. Al-Zuhayyan- please do elaborate “My desired qualities can only be found in American women. I know the qualities of British women, Swedish women, and Arab and Saudi women.”

    How exactly did you come to know the qualities of the listed women?
    What about German or Finnish women, for example?

    Can you list here specifically what are the qualities of the american woman that cannot be found in the women you listed, or any other woman in the world?

    I understand some things you are trying to say here, but for pete’s sake you need to seriously rethink this “american women only”-obsession of yours.

  59. Wait a minute. I thought you said you wanted an American wife. But now it seems like you actually want a WHITE American wife. Big difference. And i absolutely don’t understand why.

  60. I, too, am curious what quality we American women have. I didn’t realize we all were the same. :)

    For what it’s worth, I know some women who like dark men and some who prefer blondes with blue eyes. Isn’t beauty in the eye of the beholder? I remember a blonde American man who used to comment on this blog who liked darker women, in fact he married a Saudi.

    As for me, I think there are beautiful people everywhere. When I watch the Olympics I love the opening ceremonies where all the athletes march in with their country men and women and I sit there marveling at the loveliness of variety in this world! :)

  61. To All Americans in here:

    What shock me in here are the comments presented by most of you that show total unawareness of the revolutionary changes in Third World countries, the previous Western colonies, with respect to the way of thinking of its people, and the absence of realization of the waning glory of the West, specifically the United States of America.

    I hope these comments do not represent the point of views US intelligentsia

    Most of you need an intensive strategic, futuristic lesson that I believe I should be paid for exuberantly. What you should be thinking of, instead of assuming that some Third World people prefer to marry a Western woman because of her WHITE skin to gain social statues in his backward society, is how to maintain the US glory for as long as possible.

    I know the strengths and weaknesses of the US and how to maintain that glory. And if I would do it, I would do it, because of two reasons: (1) the goodness of some US values to humanity, and (2) I can not imagine the world without the glory of the US. In other words, where the world would be heading to without the US? And that direction, in my views, is more likely towards chaos.

  62. @ susanne430:

    You are a sweetheart.

  63. Nice diversion. So is it an American woman you are looking for, or a white American woman? Your the one that brought this up.

  64. Al-Zuhayyan:

    Do you even bother reading the stuff you write. I believe that it was not the readers who made the statement about “white” skin. IT WAS YOU.

    By the way, this ploy and tactic of throwing one off the topic is typical. It is also expected.

    The rest of your statement is nothing more than buffering and smoothing over the numerous rough spots of your prior posts.

    Why don’t you actually address the questions that was raised from your previous post instead of trying to deflect it back on those who questioned your actually position and statements.

  65. @Al Zu

    “Most of you need an intensive strategic, futuristic lesson that I believe I should be paid for exuberantly. ”

    The word you’re looking for is “exorbitant.” Very few people are exuberant during the actual act of payment.

    And for THAT English 101 lesson you really ought to pay me. Perhaps even exorbitantly.

  66. @Al-Zuhayyan,
    “I am not holding a big stick to tell women or men what is “Normal Clothing”. The society and the law dictates what is “Normal Clothing” There are standards for what is socially accepted clothing, even in most liberal societies like the US, which has clothing standards.
    Clothing conveys symbolic meanings about the individual and the society in which he/she lives in. Clothing conveys a meaning of status, age, social class, education, and manners. Clothing reveals norms of any particular society.”

    What I was taught at university was that the more a society teaches people to cover, the more the people have to hide. The theory meaning that societies where people wear less (such as tribal communities in certain areas of the world), they have less to hide from each other. Not sure I agree with the theory, but it sure is interesting!

  67. ‘But now it seems like you actually want a WHITE American wife. Big difference. And i absolutely don’t understand why.’

    @Sandy
    I guess since this blog primarily addresses the white woman and Arab man relationship, I think it was appropriate for him to be open about it. Not to say carol discriminates against other women of different races, but she rarely addresses such unions if ever. She is a white woman, speaking to other white women..so..
    For whatever reason Al wants from a white woman, green card, status or whatever he figured this is a starting point.

    @NN
    You kill me

  68. NEVER has Carol said in my memory anything about her posts primarily addressing the white woman/Arab man relationship. Who has ever said she is speaking to other white women and not to all westerners? How do you know all the American women speaking here on this blog are white? I’ve met black Americans and Hispanic Americans married to Saudi’s as well white ones.

    In my personal experience the white American women who marry Saudi men are among the least prejudiced -by colour- people in the world. Not only do they often marry someone considerably darker than themselves-but it doesn’t bother them to have dark children as well. The idea of someone wanting to marry a preferred skin colour is bizarre to them. And no- they didn’t marry an Arab because they PREFERRED dark skin. They married one because they liked the person who happened to be dark. And the happily married ones did not marry someone who likes white women.

    So Sam, based on WHAT exactly do you think Carol is meaning to address the White woman/Arab man relationship rather than the Western woman/Arab man relationship? How do you address them “differently”?

    Hmmm?

  69. The Question of preferring White Women:

    I did not bring the subject of preferring White Women. Someone else did by insinuating that I prefer White Women, and knowing how some Americans thinks I responded accordingly.

    Again, you keep underestimating the intelligence of Third World people and that is one of the many weaknesses in the thinking of most Americans.

    Read the following comment made by one of you that ends with the smiling rhetorical question “So what it is really?”, and examine what Bella Vita means by “Physical Appearance”:

    “Bella-Vita: @Al Zuhayyan, Your desired qualities list of the “american woman” could apply to any other woman in the world including saudi women…maybe what you prefer in a western wife that saudi women have differently would be physical appearance? so what it is really ”

    Unfortunately, many of you don’t read, and if they do, they don’t understand.

    The Question of my English language:

    I am positively confident that my English writing is far better than most of you. Writing is a world that many of you cannot comprehend. Everybody makes a spelling or grammatical mistake, and that’s why many live off editing. The crux of writing is the ideas that it carries.

    @NN

    I like your classy style to point out to my semantic mistake exuberantly vs exorbitantly. I learned the lesson. This is why and how I like Americans.

    @ Strange One:

    You made very logical point of view with respect to the meaning of the areas of the body that cloth usually covers in different cultures, and it is well taken.

  70. So- are you going to answer the question everyone has asked repeatedly? What is so special about American women? And are you interested in an American women of any colour or only a white one.

    Most of us are not misunderstanding the intelligence of third world people- in fact that is not the topic of this thread. I myself never underestimate the ability of a Saudi to avoid answering a question such as you have on this thread.

    Your English writing isn’t bad- but it is in no way far better than most of us, nor does it belong to some writing “world that many of you cannot comprehend”. Please, the self-agrandizement is ridiculous and still hasn’t answered the question: what is that mystery quality that American women have- and do the non-white American women have it as well?

  71. @ Sandy,

    I am not going into the agrandizement of American woman again that could be self- pleasing.

    Go read my previous comments, including “Unfortunately, many of you don’t read, and if they do, they don’t understand.”

  72. @Sandy:

    Non-White American women come from different races, so don’t lump them together to get your desired answer.

    Be specific, and I would tell you the quality of women from each racial group.

  73. They are all Americans. And not all white Americans have the same background either.

    Again- what type of American woman are you interested in marrying and what are her charactaristics- and do those charactaristics include race? It’s straightforward. Only tell me the quality of women from each racial group if it is relevant to your answer to the above question.

    If people are not understanding you- and you somehow mistakenly think you have made your answer clear in your previous posts, you have not.

    I have to add- it’s becoming pretty clear that you don’t really know much about American women at all.

  74. OK, Sandy, you obviously couldn’t go wrong, and you are not confused at all.

    “They are all Americans. And not all white Americans have the same background either.” What are you trying to say????

  75. Al:

    Here we go again with your post of many opportunities:

    Let’s start with this statement first:

    The Question of preferring White Women:

    I did not bring the subject of preferring White Women. Someone else did by insinuating that I prefer White Women, and knowing how some Americans thinks I responded accordingly.

    You were asked a question. That question inferred an appearance. That question that Bella Vita posed did not answer it for you. YOU DID THAT YOURSELF.

    Here is your response:

    “Physical appearance as being black, white, brown, dark brown, and yellow, can be an attraction and that is natural, that’s why God created us in different variations of color. We all know that most males from Third World countries are attracted to White women, and White women are attracted to dark men, especially those from southern Italy, Spain, and the Middle East, but lately they shun away from Middle Eastern men because they are Muslims.”

    You are the one who insinuated that most males from Third World countries prefer white women.

    Next:

    No one but you brought up the Third World Countries or indicated the individuals were lacking in intelligence. That is YOUR statement. Again here is what YOU stated.

    “Again, you keep underestimating the intelligence of Third World people and that is one of the many weaknesses in the thinking of most Americans.”

    However, you do make sure that you insult most Americans in stating that we believe that people in the Third World are lacking in intelligence.

    Then you go on to insult all those who call you on your statements. Now Bella Vita’s question was legitimate and inferred that you possibly had some type of preference. You insulted her by inferring that she is the one that force you to make YOUR statement.

    You were also the one that answered for “most males from Third World countries.” Then you were called on it.

    Now you go on to insult the readers of your statements by stating that they are incapable of understanding and comprehending what has been written by you. Including your inferences. Again, here is your statement,

    ” Unfortunately, many of you don’t read, and if they do, they don’t understand.”

    You continue to insult, see YOUR comment,

    “I am positively confident that my English writing is far better than most of you. Writing is a world that many of you cannot comprehend.”

    All the while you divert from answering the questions using the typical tactic of shifting blame to someone else in an attempt to not answer the questions that were previously posed. What I would like answered specifically are from your statement;

    “My desired qualities can only be found in American women. I know the qualities of British women, Swedish women, and Arab and Saudi women.”

    So just how experienced are you on all these women? Why is an American woman your desired target?

    Just how much experience and knowledge do you have with all of these women to know that American women fit your “DESIRED” qualifications?

    The only thing that I can agree with you on at this time is the statement of:

    “Everybody makes a spelling or grammatical mistake, and that’s why many live off editing. The crux of writing is the ideas that it carries.”

    Too bad in an earlier post you did not afford myself nor Sandy that same understanding.

    Again, many of us are skilled in understanding diversionary tactics. Your are at least constant with this maneuver.

    At least you are educating potential foreign wives and women in general on a Saudi Arabian males view of women as you continue to insult them in their intelligence, understanding, freedom, and even their ability to judge for themselves on what they find attractive in the lacking curves of men.

    Keep it up, you are on a roll.

  76. Al:

    What is a non-white American? I know several Americans that are white who have latin or indian backgrounds. I have a white neice who is married to an African-American who has a beautiful son and daughter. Are they non-white? Didn’t you know that many Americans are mutts? Many of us are a mixture of different races. So how are you going to distinguish white from non-white? Is it a skin color thing with you?

  77. Al- Zuhayyan you ignored all of my questions.

    I guess you don’t have any intelligent answers.

  78. ((“They are all Americans. And not all white Americans have the same background either.” What are you trying to say????))

    What I am trying to say is that there are women of all racial backgrounds and combination backgrounds in America. They are all equally American. I am also pointing out that all white American women do not come from the same ethnic backgrounds. If you knew anything about American society or American women you would know this. I have known many varieties of American woman married to Saudis.

    So what type of American woman is it you want? You seem to want one who is white. This is not unusual in Saudi. If this is not the case you need to say so. Do you want to marry a black American? There are more black Muslim Americans than white ones. Is hispanic ok? What about a half black/white woman. What about a white woman of Mexican descent (yes they exist) or a white Jewish American woman? How ’bout a woman of Japanese descent. Where I am from we have a lot of half Japanese/white! Or is there something else besides color/race you are looking for? Some special charactaristic. If so- WHAT IS IT? Or is it some sort of secret?

    Ahhh- I know. You want a native American. They are the most American of all with the longest American heritage. Which tribe? Cherokee? Arapaho? Apache? Which tribe and why?

  79. Al:

    Have decided that maybe you need very specifics on the types of women based upon this comment of your:

    “Non-White American women come from different races, so don’t lump them together to get your desired answer.

    Be specific, and I would tell you the quality of women from each racial group.”

    So here is the thing I am going to go with what I think you think racial groups are and you tell me what qualities they have. Of course it is hard for me to understand your understanding of racial groups so I will just break them down by some colors.

    1) White
    2) Brown
    3) Black
    4) Red
    5) Yellow

    Is that how you want them broken down?

    I am all eyes, please educate me on the different qualities. I can’t wait.

  80. To All:

    I just hope that you are familiar with these terminologies: WHITENESS, COLONIZATION, AND DOMINANCE.

    I refer you to refereed journal articles on those terms to educate yourself, and I hope you understand them so we can be on the same page when talking about what a White person is, and the nature of Western World-Third World relationships.

    @Sandy: you don’t know how to ask intelligent questions, like most in here. Think about the subject you like to ask about, organize your ideas, and then ask.

    @bigstick1: I don’t insult any body, including Americans like you that ought to be insulted, but I refrain from doing that, so I don’t slide down to your level.

    @Laylah: you are confused like most Americans. You didn’t ask me any question, and you think you did. You must be on something that takes the mind away on a trip (tripping).

  81. Al-Zuhayyan, I’m trying to understand you and I think I have solved one piece of the puzzle. Let me know if I’m on the right track. :)

    You said:

    “I just hope that you are familiar with these terminologies: WHITENESS, COLONIZATION, AND DOMINANCE. ”

    And you said somewhere up there that you prefer American women and most Third World men like white women. Are you saying that Third World men like domineering women? strong women? Maybe they don’t like women they can walk all over** and prefer women with a little spirit? women who will fight back?

    Give me some more clues so I can figure you out! :)

    ** I actually don’t think this is true of all women anywhere, but is perhaps mainly how we see women from outside of their cultures because they are not like us and seem to play their traditional roles with little fuss. Yet we don’t know what goes on in those families and I imagine many women are quite vocal no matter how submissive they may appear to strangers.

  82. Al, Dude:

    So in the context of this blog on foreign women marrying Saudi men. You would like me to apply the follow terminology (Whiteness, Colonization, and Dominance) to your quest. Alright now, I got it. You are trying to find a (Whiteness) American Woman who would (Colonize) your abode while (Dominating) you. So if I am getting this right. You want a bad ass white American Women who smacks you around also known as B&D or S&M.

    No problem, I have heard there are some very skill chasten (ie divorced) women who have truly learned that art. Enjoy.

    Oh by the way, your insults to Laylah and Sandy have brought you down lower than my level.

    Hey, I will let them tell you if that is a true statement. I am all about equal opportunity so far be it for me to steal their thunder.

    So glad we finally cleared up what type of American woman you wanted.

  83. @ susanne430

    You are stumping over every term in here. The idea of dominance/submission in the context I am talking about has noting to do with dominating any one in dyadic relationship between people of the West and the Third World.

    Do your research and think of those terms in the context of the historical political relationships between the West and Third World countries, and the impact of their ideologies on the social positioning of people of both worlds.

  84. @Al-Zuhayyan,

    Do you see Saudi as part of the Third World? I ask because of your repeated references to Third World.

    Bedu

  85. Al:

    What does that have to do with your Whiteness Colonizing Domineering American potential wife. Isn’t that what the blog is on and what the heck we have been trying to figure out from you this whole time? Why, I think it is. So how did we get into world politics? Are you trying to divert our attention AGAIN?

    Seriously, I think we have finally pegged the proper wife for you. It definitely fits into the whole dominance/submission theory. You can play world domination in the submissive role all day long with this particular type of wife

    Truly, I think we have found what type of wife you really crave. All the buzz words are there.

  86. Big Stick,

    Your mind is always in the gutter where you belong. You have nothing that is intelligent to say.

    Learn how to think as a decent human being.

  87. Ah, sorry…I really was trying to figure it out using your clues.

  88. Al:

    I am already a decent human being. I just don’t have sexual hangups due to a repressed society and religious indoctrination. To me it is just a natural process of being human. Apparently, you have issues on the fact that no one can get a straight answer out of you and quite frankly I get tired of the crap of evasive tactics and diversions. So then it is just having some fun at your expense because you are being a pain in the ass. So here is my contribution to being a pain in your ass.

  89. I guess Al-Zuhayyan has decided not to answer any questions. It is interesting to note that Saudi was never colonised, so not sure why that is so significant to him. I can tell you that it is very common for Saudi’s to want to marry white. So it isn’t a great leap to think that is at least part of what is going on. Whatever it is, Al-Zuhayyan has mastered the art of not answering a question. As for his assessment of me- really why would his opinion hold any weight at all? I’ve had far higher assessments of my abilities from people who have actual academic and real life credentials. We all know I asked clear questions here. We all know someone chose not to answer them and tried to deflect into other issues. It was a very transparent ploy.

    You had interesting ideas Bigstick. Another I’ve heard bandied about with regard to why third world men like white western women so much is it is a reverse domination sort of thing. Conquer the conquerors women. He keeps making a big deal about third world colonisation- (though generally Saudi is considered second world and was never colonised) but clearly he relates in some way to the third world mentality.

    I have to congratulate – there is at least one person here who has mastered English so well as to be lumped in with the Americans.

  90. American Bedu,

    In my view, the use of the term Third World is to describe a way of thinking. Hence, Big Stick fits squarely in the Third World, even though he actually lives in the First World.

    Some people from the First World get apprehended from interacting with some people from the Third World is because of the Third World people’s ways of thinking that they would expect to be, and they are not apprehended because of the Third World as geography. Once people from the First World interact with some people from the Third World and explore their thinking they decide whether or not to continue.

    In some aspects Saudi Arabia is a First World and in other aspects it is a Third World.

  91. @Susanne,
    I don’t think they are real clues. They are a bunch of posturing and trying to make himself sound intellectual as he avoids answering anything.

  92. Al:

    I get around to answering that after I stop laughing my head off. i might be a while.

  93. Al:

    Awe. I get it now. Your jealous that I live here and you wish you lived here. So now it comes out. America wife equals green card.

    Thanks.

  94. What is the question that did not anawer?

  95. This man is too slow !!!!!

  96. Al:

    Have you thought about therapy? Seriously, I think it would be best. You are going to have a difficult time with “First Worlders” (your terminology not mine) particular when you have difficulty grasping what are: concepts and questions. In addition, apparently you are having a difficult time figuring out what is being asked of you REPEATEDLY by numerous people. Maybe you should not consider marriage at this time until you mastered your comprehension skills and dealt with your inferiority complex. It appears to me that you have issues as you relate your status of self with your perception of where your country falls in the political domain.

  97. Al, I am really trying to understand you, but this:

    “Some people from the First World get apprehended from interacting with some people from the Third World is because…”

    What’s “apprehended from interacting” mean to you? Sorry that I’m having a hard time following you. I must need more sleep. :)

    I do understand that – to you – being First or Third World is a way of thinking rather than where you live.

  98. @Al-Zuhayyan,

    Here is a clue. When a collection of words- also known as a “sentence” concludes with a question mark (a question mark looks like “?”) then it is a question. If you look through the above posts- there are many questions addressed to you by different people. We are all waiting a response to the actual questions we asked. We are not looking for other information on colonisation or first and third world mentalities. That is not what the questions are about.

  99. @Sandy,
    “They are all Americans. And not all white Americans have the same background either.”

    Agreed!!!!!

    I get so frustrated sometimes when cultural issues arise and my American friends simply don’t understand me. And how can I expect them to respect my choices on how I choose to live if they show less respect for other cultures when compared with their version of “American” culture?!

    There are some ways I’ve changed (i.e. how I dress) out of respect for my significant other. If I were to tell some of my friends this, they’d think I was crazy. My significant other and I sat down like adults, talked about it, and came to an agreement. I consider dress a cultural issue, but if it bothers my boyfriend that much when I wear short shorts, then I can just put on a pair of jeans or a nice skirt instead. It’s not that big of a deal to me.Some of my friends would flip out if a guy told them something like this, and think I’m “crazy” for putting up with it.

    On the other hand, my significant other cooks meals, helps out around the house, listens to me, shares my interests, and is very open about me choosing to work. He’s also good with kids. Most importantly, he understands and shares my values. He respects me. Dressing differently is a very minor thing to me.

    The two of us have managed to bridge a cultural gap, which isn’t something I’d expect from most people.

  100. And for the record, we don’t have children yet. When I say choosing to work, that refers to now and also in the future after children are in the picture. I made it clear to him from the beginning that I enjoy working and plan to continue working for a long time.

  101. @ Al-Zuhayyan
    Are you saying that darker skinned men from the third world are attracted to white women on the “first” world because the “first world” people colonized them and that by having a “first world” white wife would be a coup?
    Now please explain what you mean here as I truly do NOT understand at all what you are trying to say.
    “Some people from the First World get apprehended from interacting with some people from the Third World is because of the Third World people’s ways of thinking that they would expect to be, and they are not apprehended because of the Third World as geography. Once people from the First World interact with some people from the Third World and explore their thinking they decide whether or not to continue. “

  102. @Wendy

    He is using “apprehended” and “apprehensive” interchangeably. They are actually two different words with dissimilar meanings. Substitute and you’ll see.

    Looking at you, Al!

  103. NN, thank you! That was helpful!

  104. Okay, that helps but I still don’t really understand what he is saying or the point he is trying to make.

  105. Al-Z
    I am not American and I will not stoop down to your level and respond to your other allegation.

  106. Al-Zuhayyan, you are such a chick magnet. Look how you have all these females–westerners, just hanging on to you with a silly argument going on for days. They are just going in circles with you, and keeping the fire going for theie reasons. I see your point in the thread, and think you’re comment above on americans is sweet. and would have ended the discussion way back in the top. but they dont want the flame to die. i think you will have no problem getting a western wife. or two. get you one of every color…lol. been here before.gia

  107. Gia,

    Thank you for the nice comment.

    I only want one American wife that is well-educate, blue-eyed, blonde, proportionate, and tall.

    Lordy, lordy, I am going to die just thinking about it.

  108. @ Laylah

    You are pretty girl.

    You remind me of my teenage years when those pretty girls rush to me to offer their entertaining services under my table in one of those dark, damp places in many Arab countries.

    You are right; you don’t need to be up to my level. Just remain there right where you are; I am having a good time.

  109. Al:

    Why don’t you and Gig go to the debate page. The two of you can exchange information. You two are made for each other. You know Gia Oh, sorry slipped up, Al your comment to Laylah definitely shows your character. Along with your mini-me Gia. Oh, so you like girls do you. Hmm, not into women? Just how old were these girls (8, 9, 10)? You are great example of what some Saudi men bring to the table or is it under the table?

  110. @Al-Zuhayyan
    Thanks for finally answering the question. White American. Nothing whatsoever about character. A bracelet wife. Figures. And your comments to Leylah are disgusting. I hope you marry what you deserve-an entertaining, under the table girl, who, as it turns out, dyes her hair and wears blue contact lenses

    @Gia, his nice comments are for WHITE Americans. I’m sure they are all very flattered by it.

    @Bigstick,
    Gia is a basically a flamethrowing troll who has indeed been here before.

  111. Al-Zuhayyan, i hope you get that blue eyed girl. all men like the fair girls–that’s what my saudi husband tells me..and that’s what he married. and i like the darker, and that’s what i married. and i like being treated like a queen–i have a beautiful collection of fine jewelry from my sweetness. good luck!

  112. Actually Al-Zuhayyan, that would be your best shot. Find the appropriate looking girl who wants a dark looking man to buy her lots of stuff. It could work.

  113. “I hope you marry what you deserve-an entertaining, under the table girl, who, as it turns out, dyes her hair and wears blue contact lenses”
    SO TRUE..

    Al Zuhayyan…
    the first couple of comments you made about american women screamed PERV but i didn’t want to judge so quickly..thats why i asked you the question that had everyone going crazy..but now i don’t even know what to call you

    Your comment to Laylah was so sickening i had to read it twice to see that what i had read what really true.

    “You remind me of my teenage years when those pretty girls rush to me to offer their entertaining services under my table in one of those dark, damp places in many Arab countries.”
    …hmm seeing the room was so dark and damp…are you sure they were girls..you were probably too dumb to realise a good tranny from a real woman…as long as they have blonde hair/blue eyes ..tall and proportionate rite? Lordy Lordy..are you going to die thinking about that one????

    Just a quick question are you a muslim?

    P.s Gia..u just sound real intelligent don’t you…’all men like the fair girls–that’s what my saudi husband tells me.’…did u know saudi men marry indian women..phillipino women..african women..japanese women..pakistani women, maybe its ure husbands preference and good for him..but ure husband doesn’t know what all men like so don’t be so naive.

  114. Bella Vita:

    Gia is a bracelet. Not worth your time.

  115. @ Laylah

    I humbly apologize if I offended you in any way, and I hope you accept my apology.

    @ Bella-Vita
    @ Sandy
    I see all people and all women as beautiful, because GOD is beautiful and created all people as beautiful. Please, don’t vilify and belittle anyone that created by GOD, including AMERICAN WHITE WOMEN.

    To All:

    Some of the comments in here don’t address the ideas and show jealousy from WHITE AMERICAN girls, which derived most to engage in name calling, and that is inappropriate tactic.

    Middle Easterners and Muslim women come in different variation of color and some of them are whitest of the white with blue eyes and blonde hair. You may have seen Muslims women from the Balkan and countries that ceded from the former Soviet Union, they are glaring WHITE, but they lack the character that WHITE AMERICAN women have, that makes them unattractive to me.

    Most American WHITE WOMEN are raised on the good qualities that anyone desires to see in a person, they are raised to be functional, polite, problem solvers, feisty, kind, and how to be a woman, so some of them fix their teeth with a BRACELET to look more attractive.

    We ought to see fairly the beauty in all people. A beauty that has different manifestations and meanings

    This is my opinion and hope that you respect it.

  116. Gia,

    What is the most important in life is to find that person that you cannot wait to see and feel happy and content in his/her presence. Finding that person is an on going dilemma of life in all cultures.

    Unfortunately, most wives and husbands are not happy and satisfied with their partners. It is a fact that I keep hearing from men and women from different cultures.

    You are a lucky person; your husband loves you and cherishes you. I am sure that your husband didn’t choose you to be his wife only because of your WHITENESS.

    You have plenty of humanistic qualities that your Saudi husband loves you for. Coming from this Saudi society, even though some of us prefer fair woman, your color is not the only good quality that your husband prefer to see in you. Saudis are smarter than that, you are a WIFE for a long-life and you are going to have his children.

  117. Leylah can forgive you or not- it doesn’t change the filth you were talking on this blog that everyone here reads.

    I have not belittled white American women. I have belittled you for your shallow reasons for wanting to marry one. I wouldn’t wish you on any of them. If you really loved all Allah’s creation you wouldn’t be against non white, non American women.

    You know nothing about women- American or otherwise. All the traits you mention can be found in every nationality, and not all Americans. You want looks and a specific nationality because of a perceived status thing. A bracelet wife. That’s it.

    And if you think I’m jealous of white American girls- I assure you I am not.

  118. @ Sandy,

    Your opinion is of no significant to me.

    You are not any different from the tyrant Third World people; you deny people their personal freedom and their liberty to choose. You dictate to people what they should like and prefer and what they shouldn’t.

    I am sure, I wouldn’t prefer you over any WHITE WOMEN, even those who appear as such by dyeing their hair blonde and putting blue contact lenses, as long as they desire to look like WHITE WOMEN.

    You would have a promising future in a Third World country; you would be the most beautiful woman in there. So, find you a Third World country and live there to boost your weak self-esteem.

  119. Whatever.

  120. She has the audacity to say, “a bracelet wife” !!!!

    This creature hates WHITE WOMEN.

  121. @Al
    She’s actually making fun of you and you can’t even figure it out. The contraption on teeth to make them more attractive is called a BRACE. Not a bracelet.

    I guess with your exorbitant/exuberant and apprehended/apprehensive confusion, I shouldn’t be surprised.

    My suggestion to you is that when you try to express yourself in a language, you stick with words you actually understand. Don’t use words where you “think” you know what they mean. It only makes you look silly.

    My Saudi husband actually prefers darker-complected women. He married me, whiter than white, but he and I both laugh at people who go after skin color.

  122. Why do you think a bracelet wife has to be White? I never said that. Why did you seem to suggest third world women are not beautiful?

  123. NN:

    You hate those beautiful, delicious WHITE WOMEN.

    You call WHITE WOMEN, “Bracelet Wives.” In other words, you claim that they are not “MARRIAGE MATERIAL”, and Third World Women are.

    You are confused racist.

  124. You don’t know how to express yourself, using words even you don’t understand.

    What is wrong with your husband?

    You are talking gibberish. Are you sure you speaking American English, or Third World English?

    Never mind, I could care less, if he does not prefer WHITE WOMEN, if so, he is not a Saudi. Eat your heart out. You must be one of them haters.

  125. First, it is well-known that when Teeth Bracelet was introduced in the US as a teeth correction tool, it was primarily used by those lovely middle and upper class WHITE WOMEN.

    Second, A BRACELET WIFE” has a negative cultural meaning attached to it. But unfortunately, some chose to ignore this negative meaning when talking about US WHITE WOMEN out of hate.

    Third, I did not suggest that Third World women are not beautiful.

    I said I prefer AMERICAN WHITE WOMEN, over other women, including other white women and women of color, and I spelled out very clearly the reason.

    US WHITE WOMEN are raised completely different from other women.

    What is the matter with these people?

    Why cannot I have a preference?

  126. @Al
    You are such a moron. I’m one of the whitest women you could ever meet. So telling me I hate white women is ridiculous.

    I didn’t call white women, or any other women, bracelet wives. I simply pointed out that you mistakenly call a teeth BRACE a BRACELET. You should thank me for the English lesson.

    Here’s what I wish for you. That you find a perfect white woman, have children with her, including daughters, that will take your darker complexion, and then have Saudi morons – like you – reject them because they are too dark for them.

    Do you have sisters? Are they darker than white? Did you tell them that Saudi men who want to marry them must not be Saudi, since they don’t go after white women? Who do you think will marry your sisters?

  127. Al:

    QUESTION: How are US women raised completely different from other women? Describe this please.

    Note the above is a question. A question is something that people would like answered. Please refrain from diversionary tactics as many are sick of it. Again, the above is a question.

    Answer: Yes, it is okay to have a preference.

    Answer for “what is the matter with you people?”

    We have noted several flaws in your moral character. Also your answers, lacking as they are, along with your statements tells many of us that you desire a white woman as a status symbol. In other words, what you have told many here is that you are not looking for someone to share your life with in a manner that is respectful, loving, and a partnership but more along the lines of…..Hey, guys guess what I bagged a WHITE AMERICAN TROPHY WIFE. Therefore, I have conquered American men by taking one of their women.

    This is how you come across to me and I think to many others.

    Note: For future reference this is how to answer questions.

  128. Can someone moderate what he is saying? he is so racists with his “third world remarks” and derogatory against women in general. Aren’t there any standards being kept especially after the sexual insinuations he made towards Laylah.

    Al Zuhayyan..are you serious? …are the words coming from your mouth things you have actually taken time to think before you typed them out?
    You don’t even understand why we were so mad at your comments to Laylah…u just DON’T GET IT.
    Im sure 99.9% of all women..white, black, yellow, red what ever.. would feel sick listening to you..that is apart from the 0.1% like Gia who don’t have a brain….but you would like those types anyway..as long as she is “white” rite..
    He must have a dark skin complex..or maybe ..you were rejected by a beautiful dark skinned saudi woman and from then on you has been on a white woman rampage..who knows??

  129. These morons: NN, Big Stick, and Bella-Vita

    Their stupidity, dirty minds, ill-manners, ignorance, and their inability to write and read English are making me sick.

    How these people could be living in a first-world, English-speaking country?

    How they function?

    What sort of education system vomited them out to plague the entire world?

    They can not read.
    They cannot write.
    They don’t know how to ask a question. I don’t know how they could order their food from McDonalds, but they are the only people that can understand them for obvious reasons.

    They don’t comprehend.

    They are obsessed with SEX, and they interpret any thing they seem to be hearing or reading in a sexual understanding.

    How could I insinuate any sexual remarks to Laylah, or anybody? I am a conservative Muslim that never missed Alfajr (dawn) prayers since I was 5 years old. I memorize the entire Quran and recite it everyday.

    I was nominated Imam for a mosque and I declined, because it is a role with a great responsibility towards all humanity.

    When somebody in here mentioned that I made inappropriate remark to Lylah, I went back to my comment and re-read it, and found nothing wrong with it, but I realized that it could be taken by some with dirty minds negatively and I apologized for her.

    I don’t hide anything and I don’t have anything to hide. My real name and picture are out there for everybody to see.

    The very idea makes me sick.

    Your comments only show your hatred against Islam, Muslims, and Saudis in particular.

    You are racists and hate mongers with dark, devil ideologies.

    You are a curse on the world, and give the First-World a bad name.

  130. If we assume for a moment (and it’s difficult) that you are not some sort of sexual pervert- then clearly YOU have a problem with English if you can’t see anything wrong with what you wrote.

    The rest of us are all understanding each other perfectly well. And believe me- we don’t usually agree with each other here.

    And there are many conservative Muslims men that pray etc. and are still perverts. Islam is about more than rituals.

  131. Applaud, applaud, applaud. Oh, if you were an actor you would get a standing ovation.

    People see right through you. By the why I often find that those espouse to be religious to be the absolute worst offenders of hypocrisy. They are generally the ones who say I could never do this because I am so religious then go off and do just exactly the opposite of what they stated they could never do.

    Hey by the way have you read what you can get away with in the Koran or bible. As a guy it is a lot. Then there is all that murder for witchcraft, apostasy, and being a heretic. Then hey there is lashing for being rape that I think is called adultry in the middle east. Marriage to slaves or miysar wives (legalzed prostitution.) and heck the list of fun in the middle east sun goes on and on and on. All sanctioned by the koran. Heck the fun filled land in the sun is just now bring back a tweeter and publisher to fulfill its need to persecute another person who dared to question the concept of Islam as those who in Saudi feels it counters their view of their concept. Hey now remember there is no compulsion in religion, right? Oh the double speak. Muslim countries speak with forked tongues. How dare he have a counter thought in his head and actually speak it. You know thinking out loud or thinking for that matter is not really allowed by the house of Saud in the biggest prison on earth and also the worst human rights offenders on earth.

    Hey but you are a product of your environment you to speak with forked tongue and righteousness as well.

    Hey here is a clue. No one believes your indignation nor your statement of what you say you didn’t say or what it vividly impled. Make no mistake you are a prime example to American women on the type of men to stay away from. Personnally, I am glad all your comments have stayed up. As it gives women a true understanding of men such as yourself. I think this has been very educational for all foreign women.

  132. In Al-Zuhayyan’s defense (and the fact I cannot remember what he said to Laylah that was so perverted though I do recall reading it and wondering if he knew how he came across — was it something about under the table?), maybe he truly didn’t mean to sound like he came across to the rest of us. I remember back in the early days of my friendship with my Syrian Muslim friend, we would chat by Messenger. Occasionally he would say hello during my morning and when I said I’d just woke up, he’s tease that he would “take advantage of” me while I’m sleepy. I realized that he didn’t know how that could come across to me so I told him he probably shouldn’t use that phrase if he talked to other women who might not know him as they may think he was some sexual predator.

    Regardless of Al’s intentions and maybe his true colors were revealed, I’m not for moderating his comments. I am upset about the Saudi guy being arrested for having the nerve to admit he didn’t understand or like every action of Muhammad (thank you!) and I am not for censoring people’s words. We can choose to ignore him if we don’t like what he says. And let’s give him the benefit of the doubt that he truly is just ignorant of how some things come across in English.

    I mean he thinks we wear bracelets on our teeth, for heaven’s sake! :)

  133. Susanne- assuming a misunderstanding- which I think if you re-read the comment there’s not much else it could mean- he shouldn’t be yelling at everyone else about their poor English.. Because if he really didn’t mean anything wrong- his English is what has the problem.

  134. Yes, I think admitting he doesn’t always understand the correct English words or phrases would have been better than accusing native-English speakers and NN of not knowing English.

    Agreed.

  135. Today, I saw very clearly the crusaders in Sandy, Big Stick, and others. Their attacks and their false accusations of Islam and Muslims of every ill, whereas they are the evil itself, made me remember vividly the crusaders’ atrocities committed against Islam and Muslims in the early times.

    I always tried to rid my thinking of the idea that Islamists keep claiming that the West never would be content with Islam and Muslims and always would be harboring hatred and animosity against Islam, believing that it is a biased idea that needs examination.

    Thank you for giving me the chance to rethink my views about the West. You are still racists, hate mongers, and you strongly believe that you are superior to Islam and Muslims. You cannot disguise your true feelings against this benevolent world called Islam. No one can miss your attempt to smear people of God by accusing them of having forked-tongue (hypocrites), as if priests, reverends, and the likes are saints with mercy angels hovering around God’s creatures.

    I lost my hope in the West and Westerners, and admit that I was mistaken. The West and the East are not the same and would never converge on the same humanistic principles. Islam calls for equality and respect for human dignity, while the West calls for racial superiority and oppression of non-whites and non-Christians.

    I’ll go back to my Koran, prayer rug, and my tasbeeh beads, and pray for forgiveness that I once believed in the West and Westerners, those Kofar/infidels the enemies of the Muslims’ GOD.

  136. Your brilliance once again shines through. You saw all that? Wow. Somehow it doesn’t surprise me.

    Oh, I am a Muslim and I live in Saudi Arabia.

  137. Al-Zuhayyan, a few things …

    Sandy is a Muslim.

    Bigstick doesn’t speak well of Christianity either. Go read his blog. I doubt you’ll find him defending priests and reverends.

    The West doesn’t call for racial superiority — Proud people *everywhere* seem to have this flaw.

    Some Westerners are Muslims so you can’t neatly divide them in the West and the East.

    Don’t judge all Westerners because of a few people who didn’t care for your comments on one blog. You are going to judge millions of people because of the words of a handful of people? I know Muslims do not like when we do this so return the favor, please.

    Read your comments and realize they didn’t go over well. Apologize if needed and don’t act like everyone is against you because we failed to understand your Saudi/Muslim thought process. (I think in English so I don’t really ‘get’ you like you might wish. :) )

    You give up hope too easily.

  138. I know very well these exposed Westerners’ argumentation tactics, and I am sick and tired of them. So stupid.

    You are racist, hate monger. You hate Islam and Muslim, and any WHITE WOMAN.

  139. susanne430

    Islam and Muslims receive everybody with open minds and hearts, and we don’t judge anyone, we judge the acts. The acts of some in here are hateful.

    This is the mental process of most Saudis/Muslims.

    The flaw is in the Westerners’ mental process and their English language that they cannot speak it and write it well, and they come across as if they lacking brains like most human beings.

    Westerners have double standards, one for them and another for Muslims.

  140. al-zuhayyan

    – i don’t think white women hating white women is racist, i think it’s just hating :-)

    Anyway inspite of all these flaws you see in a western woman, you still want to marry one???
    why torture yourself anyway good luck in your search..

  141. Women here hate some women because of their color as being white women, so it is hateful racism. Hate based on color.

    My Western Woman is very special, and I am sure I will find here. She is out there, some where waiting for me.

  142. Obviously, there are some language barriers going on here. Teasing others about their English language abilities is not a very nice thing to do.

    Additionally, I don’t understand the name-calling. The only reason to use name-calling is to make the other person upset (and possibly give others a good laugh in the process), and what good is that if you’re truly trying to understand the other person?

    @Al-Zuhayyan,
    It sounds like you are basing your requirements for a woman on mainly looks. Cross-cultural relationships have a hard enough time working out. If your relationship is more shallow, meaning that you are place physical appearance above a spiritual, mental, and emotional connection (although I understand that physical appearance matters somewhat, too) you are going to encounter a lot of problems in your marriage later in life.

    If light-skinned women is just a fetish, then that’s just what you prefer.
    If you are only willing to date light-skinned women, then you’re being prejudiced against other (darker-skinned) women. I think this is what others were trying to point out to you.

    I would recommend you think twice before dating an American/other Western woman because typically (not always but most of the time), American women are very opinionated, independent women who do not want to give up their freedoms. Freedom is more than just clothing, food, etc. It also includes things like being able to freely choose where (including job title) she wants to work, sharing household responsibilities with you, etc.

    Very few American women who are willing to cross cultural barriers would also be willing to let you make all the major life decisions for them. This is because when a woman is more educated, typically she wants to be treated as an equal when making family decisions. She does not usually want her husband to make all the decisions for her while she stays at home. If they choose together that it is best for her to stay home, that is different because she was able to talk to her husband about her opinion and values. Just something to think about…

  143. Susanne:

    Let me just state that Al-Zuhayyan knows exactly what he stated to Laylah. When you talk about entertainment services where girls rush over to you to provide an entertainment to a man under the table in a dark damp place it means just that and that is exactly what he meant.

    Al-Zuhayyan:

    Your self-victimization is not going to work on me. You are the one who is racist and has a chip on his shoulder. You are also trying very hard to use deception and subversion. In addition, you really like the whole diversionary tactic which includes your self victimization. As far I am concerned some of the most beautiful women are Arab but I find many different races of women equally beautiful. Your the one who is stuck on the race issue and have made sure that you speak for most middle eastern arab men by stating that they would prefer white women. If you ask me that just snub your own. Nobody but you did that.

    I could care less for any religion including Islam. As far as I am concerned all religions and their prophets are nothing but fairytales. They have as much validity to them as the flying purple people eater and fairys. Zilch, nada, nothing. So no crusade here. I just don’t belief in backward tribal made up horse hockey.

    Now here is a QUESTION: Do you know what a question is? Did I not point out in a prior post a question for you to answer? These are questions.

  144. @bigstick1:
    I agree that there are beautiful women (and men) in every ethnicity and skin color (which are two completely separate things).

    @Al-Zuhayyan:
    I didn’t choose my man on the basis of ethnicity but because he is intelligent, honest, loving, kind, a little crazy (in a good way), and treats me extremely well. He also feels like family to me, which is not a very common thing. Please keep in mind that there are more important things than skin color and nationality- like personality.

    BTW, there are very lovely women with blue/grey/green eyes that have dark skin. I think this is a very beautiful combination.

  145. @ Strange One & Big Stick:

    You are not in a position to give me lessons on beauty, color, and the qualities of my potential American wife that happened to be White.

    You are racists and hate mongers with dark, devil ideologies aimed at Islam and Muslims. The neo-Crusaders.

    Trying to appear as good wishers and sincere advisors only work with people such as yourself who does not what they are talking about.

    Enough of this talk that turned my stomach and I am going to throw up.

    Please say something intelligent and sensible that show that you are human beings like us.

  146. Amazing- Al Zuhayyan writes a though he never wrote his other posts and as though we can’t go back and read all that’s been said.

    Anyway I think we are on the edges of Troll-country, or in a place where instability reigns…

  147. Al-Z-Your comment was very hurtful and insulting.

    “You are pretty girl.
    You remind me of my teenage years when those pretty girls rush to me to offer their entertaining services under my table in one of those dark, damp places in many Arab countries.
    You are right; you don’t need to be up to my level. Just remain there right where you are; I am having a good time.”

    From what I understand you’re saying here is: I remind you of those hookers in some Arab country (I’m assuming perhaps Russians since I had just told you I’m not American and there are so many russian prostitutes in GCC) that were giving you a blowjob underneath the table in the brothel.

    What I’m not sure of is which part of the above comment did you think would not be offensive?
    I would also like to hear how this came across to you as a woman Susanne?

    Anyways, apology accepted and I think I’m done with this conversation, it’s not going anywhere and what Sandy said just above is what I’ve been suspecting for some while as well :)

  148. Sandy:

    It is definitely instability. Short-term and long term memory loss along with lack of comprehension abilities. I would say definitely in need of a facility that keeps good tabs on a person.

  149. Laylah, it does sound very disgusting now that I see it again. I’d really forgotten his exact words when I commented earlier today and I didn’t have time to scroll up and find them. Thanks for reposting. I can see why you were hurt by what he said. I would be as well!

  150. Anyone can pray Al fajr/memorise quran/ and obviously ANYONE can be an imam in a mosque..especially if u were asked for the position.
    If only they knew what you do in your spare time…in those dark/damp places..
    It does not make you a better muslim because you do any of the above..but it shows a great deal about your character from all the talking you have done.
    YOur apology to Laylah was ridiculous because your not admitting anything of truth.
    Your so silly thinking that its non-muslims not agreeing with u just because you think they are “muslim haters” …NO the majority are the muslims that are hating your perverted words.
    Anyway staying on chat rooms to talk about your love for “white women” and “young entertaining girls under a table” is nothing that islam has prescribed so if you are such a good muslim..maybe you should stay off here and go learn some manners.

  151. @Al-Z,
    I’m racist?! LOL!!!!!!!!!! I needed a good laugh! Thank you for providing one. ;) You obviously know nothing about me.

    I was genuinely trying to be nice, but I don’t have to be. You are more than welcome to think what you wish of me- and as the saying goes, it’s really none of my business. (Though if you truly think I’m racist and prejudiced against muslims, I have to laugh at the absurdity and irony of the situation.)

    @Sandy,
    Agreed about troll-country.

  152. A copy and paste here from Jimmy Soul …
    If You Want To Be Happy (for The Rest Of Your Life) lyrics

    If you wanna be happy
    For the rest of your life,
    Never make a pretty woman your wife,
    So from my personal point of view,
    Get an ugly girl to marry you.

    If you wanna be happy
    For the rest of your life,
    Never make a pretty woman your wife,
    So from my personal point of view,
    Get an ugly girl to marry you.

    A pretty woman makes her husband look small
    And very often causes his downfall.
    As soon as he marries her, then she starts
    To do the things that will break his heart,
    But if you make an ugly woman your wife,
    You’ll be happy for the rest of your life,
    An ugly woman cooks her meals on time,
    She’ll always give you peace of mind.

    If you wanna be happy
    For the rest of your life,
    Never make a pretty woman your wife,
    So from my personal point of view,
    Get an ugly girl to marry you.

    Don’t let your friends say
    You have no taste,
    Go ahead and marry anyway,
    Though her face is ugly,
    Her eyes don’t match,
    Take it from me she’s a better catch.
    [ From: http://www.elyrics.net/read/j/jimmy-soul-lyrics/if-you-want-to-be-happy-(for-the-rest-of-your-life)-lyrics.html ]

    If you wanna be happy
    For the rest of your life,
    Never make a pretty woman your wife,
    So from my personal point of view,
    Get an ugly girl to marry you.

  153. Your acceptance revealed what you made of, Laylah: Genuine White Diamond.

  154. Hello. I have read this post and even when this was written in february I hope I can get an answer. I have been chatting with a man who initially told me he is from UK but with arabic root. This was in one of our initial conversations. He also told me that sometimes he feels bad about having arabic root cause he is normally rejected and the people thinks they are bad. So I told him “I dont have a problem with your origins”. With time, I discovered he has been lying to me, cause he lives in Jeddah and he TOTALLY an arabic man. I have been showing to him my interest in his culture, he´s been asking me if I am interested about Islam. He sent me some pictures of him naked, so I did the same. I am just trying to show him that there is no need to lie to me about his nationality but he stills keep the lie on. Obviously his questions and some things he said are betraying him: no one can lie for a long time. I am from México and I still do not understand WHY he is doing this to me. He get online at the time I am awake when he should be sleeping. He works hard, he does not know that I was searching information about him and everything he has told is true EXCEPT that he is in Arabia. I am afraid his interest in me is not true and he is just… having fun by internet. But when he writes me and goes online at such a difficult hour for him… I just dont know what to think and to do. I will really appreciate your opinions. Thank you.

  155. Errr excuse me but I was casually brewing ,read the previous comment and fell out of my chair. A man from Saudi is sending you naked pictures. A man you have never met. And you sent him your naked picture????? Oh for the love of god don’t you read and what happened to common sense. Unless you are 12 I can’t imagine ch naivete. Stop chatting with him. Read about predators on the net and learn. Sigh

  156. Well we talked about this before a lot. We are not showing our faces but (I am a little bit hacker) I know the pics are true. It was some kind erotic and it just happened once. As I said before , the information he has provided me about what he does with his life, his job and his career is reliable, except the point that he won´t admit he is in Arabia. Thank you for your comment, but I must said that we did this just to feel closer to each other. And believe me, if he would have the intention to do something wrong with this photos I would knew it but no… Is not his intention. I had search everything related with his life in Arabia and he is a decent, hardworker guy. He also has sent me photos of his family, nieces and nephews. I verified the legitimacy of these photos too, and yes, they are really his family, this is why I do not know what to think about him, cause he has been honest in everything but admitting where he lives. Thank you again for your attention and time.

  157. Alina:

    How old are you? Seriously never, never, never do this again. Now let us hope these pictures do not come back to bite you later in life.

    Next you have already found out that he has lied to you. Which means where there is one there is more. Think of lies like cockroaches. Where there is one there is often time numerous. In addition, if he is a Saudi male then he will consider you a slut or insert name of bad reputation. More than likely he will consider you a western whore.

    Now I hate to be this way and make those statements but you really need to re-evaluate you trust level. NEVER provide naked pictures of yourself to anyone unless you are willing to deal with the consequences of them being exposed and used against you later in life.

    You need to cut this internet relationship as Radha is probably correct that this person is a predatory.

  158. Alina:

    How were you able to verify the legitimacy of the photos or his employer? You should know that there are criminal organizations that puts up fake information that can lure in young girls and women. All the while they believe they researched the individuals but in fact they researched what was planted as a cover.

    Be very careful.

  159. Dear Alina,

    A respectful and sincere Saudi man (or any man) would not be sending nude photos of himself. As you have been already advised, never ever send nude photos or full clothed photos of yourself to someone you do not know. You are worth far more than that.

    The only thing in what you wrote that sounded normal to me were your comments that he was online when he should be asleep. Actually so many Saudis I know are true night owls.

    I concur with the others…this person is playing some kind of perverted game. Cease contact with him and move on.

    Mother Hen Bedu

  160. Basically, I confirmed this information because I work as a programmer in the government. So is it: the photo that he sent to me matches with other online data, and therefore, the photo that I sent, does not show my face or anything that might make others recognize me. I will tell you the context of these pictures. He and I have chatted since December, we always kept polite and respectful conversations. But of course once we started talking about how much we would like to be together, one thing led to another and we had conversations about sex.
    We have seen by camera but just making funny faces and silly things. He had never requested me to do something sexual when we are in a video call and obviously I will never do it. One day, after a conversation of these kind, he told me that if I agreed, he would take a picture so I could see his body. He knows that I was committed before and I’m not a virgin, so he wanted me to say, after seeing his picture, if I thought that he could saitsfy me and tell him If I feel sufficiently attracted to him. I said it was not necessary to do so, but any given day, he sent me the picture and began to wonder if I like it, if I liked what I saw, if I believed that he could be good for me. Of course I said yes. And in return I decided to send a picture of me, warning that this was something I had not done before. He told me he knew it, and I do not have to, but it was my choice. When he received it , he sent me an email thanking me and telling me I am very beautiful,and that he expected not making me feel uncomfortable. I know this is not common among Arab men, so I’m even more surprised. Please do not ask me more about how I found his information, because this has to do with my work and is confidential information. Thanks for your replies, I really appreciate your time. Being a programmer gave me this knowledge, access and skills to know if someone is scammer or not. This guy has the job he said he has, the career he told me before and also , a master degree. I told him about how interesting I find the arabic culture in order to encourage him to tell me the truth. He was very happy when I told him this, but he stills refuse to tell me the truth!

  161. Basically, I confirmed this information because I work as a programmer in the government. So is it: the photo that he sent to me matches with other online data, and therefore, the photo that I sent, does not show my face or anything that might make others recognize me. I will tell you the context of these pictures. He and I have chatted since December, we always kept polite and respectful conversations. But of course once we started talking about how much we would like to be together, one thing led to another and we had conversations about sex.
    We have seen by camera but just making funny faces and silly things. He had never requested me to do something sexual when we are in a video call and obviously I will never do it. One day, after a conversation of these kind, he told me that if I agreed, he would take a picture so I could see his body. He knows that I was committed before and I’m not a virgin, so he wanted me to say, after seeing his picture, if I thought that he could saitsfy me and tell him If I feel sufficiently attracted to him. I said it was not necessary to do so, but any given day, he sent me the picture and began to wonder if I like it, if I liked what I saw, if I believed that he could be good for me. Of course I said yes. And in return I decided to send a picture of me, warning that this was something I had not done before. He told me he knew it, and I do not have to, but it was my choice. When he received it , he sent me an email thanking me and telling me I am very beautiful,and that he expected not making me feel uncomfortable. I know this is not common among Arab men, so I’m even more surprised. Please do not ask me more about how I found his information, because this has to do with my work and is confidential information. Thanks for your replies, I really appreciate your time. Being a programmer gave me this knowledge, access and skills to know if someone is scammer or not. This guy has the job he said he has, the career he told me before and also , a master degree. I told him about how interesting I find the arabic culture in order to encourage him to tell me the truth. He was very happy when I told him this, but he stills refuse to tell me the truth! He is very proud about his culture and gets so happy when I told him what I think.

  162. He is trying to make me believe he has arabic root but he is more “occidental”… cause he was thinking I could reject him cause all the ideas about the arabic men trat bad their women…The first thing he toldme when he confess me his arabic “root” was “but I am not that kind of bad guy” (arabic root… he is actually a tree with his roots totally into Arabia).

  163. Looks as if he’s totally the typical Arabic bad guy, searching the internet for western girls, getting their pictures and sharing them with his friends while having a laugh about those stupid, impure, slutty, western whores.
    He’s not interested in you, only in what he can get out of you. Drop him.

  164. ok Alinahel .. so many people have told you he’s toying with you, you unfortunately seem to think except for his roots lies he’s a saint.. well what do you want us to say, go ahead and chat away!!!!!

    If you don’t want to cut contact with him, go ahead and keep in touch, send in a few more pics. have fun do what makes you happy, he makes you feel good, look good, go for it.

    As to why he lies that he’s arab, maybe he’s ashamed of being arab, who knows what’s in his head. maybe he needs a bit of psychiatric help.
    Since it’s a long-distant relationship or a non-relationship , I’m assuming no future plans, just chatting and video conferencing. well how long do you think 2 people cando this lon-distance thing …. and unless you plan to meet andhook up and marry soon, he’ll probably go ahead and marry someone….

    I know i sound rude, but i don’t know what else to say..i don’t even know what you want us to say…If this was my daughter I’d probably have her taken in for some counselling..

  165. I agree with Radhaa.
    And isn’t this always the case? Always the same. Some girl comes onto Bedu with a story of another one of these double dealing lying louses and they wait until some equally deluded nitwit tells them they are in for a beautiful future with this worm and then they are all over each other comforting each other in their choice of louse.
    Just wait. Somebody will come on here with some politically correct (but realistically incorrect) wishy-washy comment about how it will be just different cultures, and love is all what counts etc. and then she has something to hang on to and she will be all hopeful and confident of a wonderful future….

  166. Thank you for your answers, even when I have read adjectives as “western whore”… What I am not, simply, we are very different cultures. I have learned to respect the whole foreign people that I know even the differences between religion or culture that they practises. This is a lesson that my country shows every time we receive foreign people.

    If this man is the Arabic class that considers the western women or the Latin women as prostitutes, poor man. If he is doing this to share pictures of women with his friends while he call them stupid sluts, maybe he cannot get a real women in his country precisely cause he is an idiot. Arabics or not arabics that consider us, latino women as sluts are idiots. I have decided to cut communication even when we were making plans of a trip. I do not believe in the idyllic loves like other persons mentioned here, definitively an Arabic man who is looking for a virgin girl because he bases on it the whole value of a woman, is not the kind of man I need (as I said before, different cultures, nothing personal). But I must say I am never going to understand why Arabic men comes to my country (there is a lot living here) to search for a latina, marry her telling they accept her as she is and after being married try to turn her into something she is not, if in the bottom of their minds and hearts what they really want is someone like them.

    While the people in the world do not learn to recognize and to respect the differences between some and others, this universe will never be in peace. I expect not to have offended nobody because my intention was not this, but being called a western prostitute it is terrible. I know that some of you are trying to show me the way he thinks about me. What a sadness I feel, because I would never judge anybody that way. Thank you anyways. Fortunately, here in my country, those who knows me consider me as a real lady. Whew!

  167. Alinahel:

    Just so you know an upstanding with it type of guy is not going to send naked photos of himself to anyone that he intends to have a serious relationship with as most guys want to first met and really get the know the individual better. At least guys that want more than a thrill.

    Note: If ever you get into a relationship that is over the internet and you decide to meet make sure it is on your turf and you have friends with you in a public location such as a mall or an eatery of some sort. This way you have friends and in a public place. Do this several times before you decide to go out in public alone with him.

    Next, no one here thinks ill of you but that is the Arabic culture and that is how many males in this culture treat women. Some of us consider you too trusting and maybe a little naive.

    Remember, first and foremost protect yourself to ensure a long and happy life.

  168. I agree with Bigstick’s advice.

    Mama Bedu

  169. Thank you big stick I know your intention is good. Did I mention that I am a cybernetic police…? So this is not about being naive ( I would have cut him before if I had found information about him really dangerous but I only found what he already had told me). I Know what to do with this kind of dates. And yes, this is the arab culture (the point this guy is trying to deny). I was just confused about the situation. The plans were about him coming to my country to meet me. Anyway I have deleted him… Now I have an email claiming why and asking if he did something wrong. Who will know. Or this guy is a professional liar or he has a VERY occidental brain into his arabic head. Whatever, is not my bussiness anymore.

    @American Bedu congratulations, this is a very interesting blog and I wish from the bottom of my heart, that everything goes well on your medical process. Regards to everyone who had read my story and thanks again for helping to clear my mind.

  170. Alinahel, its sad but that is how the majority in the Middle East think about us western women. They would never tell that to outsiders, but this is how they talk among each other.

    There would have been no future in the relationship anyway, the best ending is to part even if he were worthwhile. Which I sincerely doubt. If he was honest and good he would have presented you to his mother and sisters. (never to a male!). Most Saudi families do not accept a Western wife, for the reasons mentioned and others. Saudi is one big prison for women, women are literally property of men and cannot do anything, from shopping to opening a bank account, getting a job, to going to court with approval of their owner. And often the owner has to be present to personally give permission.
    You can’t even leave the country without permission of your owner, if you do so he will get a text message that one of his property is leaving and he can stop you if he wants to. And if you were to have children they are his property, never yours, if he dies they go to his family, never to you. Ownership of you will go to one of his male family members who can decide to lock you up, take away your home, not educating your children, etc. This happens to real people right now.

  171. Alinahel, I find it extremely difficult to believe you are a cyber cop. I think you are very young and naive and if you were truly a cyber cop you’d never have done what you did or fall into believing this guy. You would never have come to this forum talking about it either. You are no better than this guy for sending a nude picture of yourself or anybody else to him.

  172. I’m a mixed America woman who lives in Atlanta. Half East Indian Bangalore-mother and American-father. I’m very attracted to East Indian, Italian, Middle Eastern, and add Saudi men to the mix. SOOOOOOOOOO Where are all these men who are looking for American woman live? Sorry, but I could not resist my question because my mother broke the rule when she married outside her race. She married a man she loved. She met him, he treated her well and she left her culture and married him then had beautiful me.
    I think people get caught up on culture and religion and forget the true foundation of any relationship LOVE, RESPECT, HONESTY AND LOYALTY. Next time you meet a man or woman who is from a different country or culture don’t say they did this or that because of lack… They were just two people who met, and fell in love and decided to change their lives regardless of what the world says.

  173. I think Mr. Al-Zuhayyan watches too much TV and has a color complex with himself…. Apparently, he doesn’t know GOD either. If he did he would know Allah, is the creator of all things and all things that Allah created is good in God’s eyes so to praise Allah and speak the way you do Mr. Al-Zuhayyan is to spit in the face of Allah. What I mean is people are people white, black, Indian… We can choose who we like which is OK but unless you get to know a person you cannot make ASS*OLE comments like that (difference to upbringing)… It only makes you look stupider than you already are! For the record, I know people from many cultures and races and some are tactful and great while others are horrible including many white American, black American, Latin Americans etc… Go re-read the Koran and seek God’s enlightenment before making stupid comments like that again. GOD IS COLOR BLIND AND CULTURE BLIND. LOVE IS COLOR BLIND AND CULTURE BLIND.

  174. I guess saudi men that would marry say a foreigner – I will take the example of a westener- would be because they indeed seek a different lifestlye and also they do admire her for her independence.

    There are Saudi men that do love independence in women and also prefer to know their wife before marrying her.

    Some also would like to be able to live in different locations around the world and have more relaxed rules at home.

    It is indeed important that the wife, does not become too saudi:) as she would loose some of her allure.

    Naturally you get some of the traits of the culture where you live, but still there are some aspects that will always stay and hopefully will still be attractive :) to the husband.

  175. Sandra, it is very silly and naive to think that the way people interpret your capitalized foursome of LOVE, RESPECT, HONESTY and LOYALTY is not grounded in their culture. Do you realize that two people may mean completely different things by these words?

    God and love may be culture-blind and color-blind, but life and marriage isn’t. You may have a perfect torrid affair with anyone regardless of culture and color, but life, marriage, children, finances and goals force you to address very serious questions that are very heavily informed by one’s culture. Love is not enough for marriage and especially not children. The way your comment is written makes me think you are very young.

  176. I never said any culture or people group did not have LOVE, RESPECT, HONESTY AND LOYALTY… Nor was I saying or implied that Saudi men/woman had none of those qualities either. Re-Read what I actually said. I agree love is not enough but I also think humans complicate things more than it is… Take my comment for example!

  177. I was reading all the comments here. What a stories! Especially Alinahel´s story. Honestly, I think a little bit different about her story. I believe there is a possibility of real interest of this man about her. Many people is using dating sites now in order to find a foreign woman or man to have a relationship. If this man has a master degree and also is using a dating site, perhaps he is looking for someone not saudi. I have met people saudi people online who denies their origins until they feel they will not be rejected. I am actually dating one I have met here in a dating site, I am from Philippines and now I live in UK and we met the last month personally. Everything is going well. Today, sharing pictures like this is completely common in the dating sites cause sometimes is the only way to feel closer. I am not saying if it is right or not, just saying is common. Such a pity if Alinahel stopped having communicating with him. Girl, maybe you should encourage the situation. Tell him you know who he is, and see what happens. And never believe you are a slut , you are a woman who was sharing some intimacy with someone who is really far away from you, because you and him wanted to do this. Tell him what you know. Maybe is the only way to know if he is really interested. If he has been asking why you deleted him, perhaps it is because he is into you.

  178. I am an American women married to a. Saudi Man & this Man and I met in America in school and he told me the reason why I love you is because you were not the typical women (Saudi /arab women) he said I love that you give me something new, I love your personality its different and your different. I love that you dont care what others think yet your still & always have been respectable. Your Fair, right is right & wrong Is wrong regardless of religion. Family. I.love that you have the strength to do and achieve all and anything that you put your mind to & I admire that you dont think because your married you should have a Baby every year because its the Way of the culture. I didn’t want somebody to be so submissive that I grew board of her… I admire that you Let know Man tell you off of disrespect you because you are a women. I would never even dream of picking up another wife because I know that is unexceptable & I risk loseing you f I
    Now dont get me wrong I admire & love My husband for the same seasons, I love his culture his arab humor his culture… Its all different from what the typical American Man has to offer & I could never get board with that. We have been married for 8 years now & can only seem to. Grow and love each other more. I guess the saying opposites atrue. religion is never a problem in fact we guide our child in both views. I guess in his mine the traditional arab wife is boaring and this is why the arab Man often strays or picks up a second or third wife.

    I love the arab culture, the food & theut aeingcompletley open with My husband I can be myself. Not to worry about pleasing My /our family or religion etc. Its truly the best of both worlds… I dont know what the hell Sandy means by a proper wife Who cooks cleans dresses like a ninja. And kisses his families ass as if they are kong & Queen of London! Truth of the matter is they get board with that crap this they cheat. And dont get me wrong any Man cheats no matter what his culture is but please girlfriend the main reason for cheating is lack of interest in the bed room. & arab women are seriously sexually depressed! I mean how much could you/they know

  179. Nice to hear there are some happy marriages like yours. I also have a friend who married a Saudi and moved there. He loves her because she is who she is and she has lots and lots of freedom.

  180. I just read back through this and find it disturbing that this perverted Al Zuhayyan guy either stole his identity, or is the writer for the Arab News. Hmmmm.

  181. I started reading this article because the caption caught my eye.After reading the many many comments of your viewers it became an agenda for them to defend their opinions on Saudi society and male female relations. Sure to post a comment or two but REALLY to go on and on and on. Anyone who lives here knows the situation. Why bother to try to repeatedly defend it? If you are Saudi and grew up there your thought process will never become open enough to ever truly understand and acept a Western mentality. I am married to an Arab man, he has his points but I do not ever expect him to truly get it :S Their definition of freedom and rights are not the same.

  182. Yamz!

    I am very intrigued by your response and feel that you can help me a little with the situation I am in. With out a doubt I am in love with a Saudi who is in love with me. We have been dating for a few years and now the topic of marriage comes up often. We want to get married and he is determined to do anything in order to make that happen. I am willing to marry him and go with him to the kingdom. But my question for you is what were the difficulties that you faced through out your journey of marriage and relocating with the love of your life? how did your parents react and how did you tell them? I have been easing my parents into this idea and even though they like the man I am with and think he is a great man they still think that Saudi Arabia is hell and damnation for a women.
    Please help! I know that there are many beautiful things that have happened to you on your life changing journey with your husband but what were the things that were brought against you and made this decision to leave everything you know behind difficult?

    Sincerely,
    Paige

  183. hi, I know this is out of topic but i was just wondering if some 1 can help me. I am from Philippines(27yrs old) and my fiance is saudi (31 yrs old), but it says he needs to be 35 so we can apply for the permit, does any 1 here know some1 that can help us?

  184. Let me tell you this article is downright stupid I am an australia muslim convert living in saudi arabia with my husband I cover wearing niqab and overhead abaya it is part of islam for a woman to cover her body and the family bring the girl under their wing because they care for her. My husband is loyal and likes his wife to obey him. My husband does not and will not get a second wife

  185. @ Fatima

    Niqab is not one of the main part of Islam but Hijab is restricted to cover whole body except face and hands(at least based on fatwas of majority scholars). And Saudis love to bother ladies(why??). I do not think that you can find a man in KSA holding only one wife! this is shameful for them as far as I know.

    Saudis__besides their religious views__are keen to have wives especially foreign!! It is interesting for me that given Iran is the most religious country, you never can find a two-wife man(It has really an trivial stat).

  186. I am an American woman and married to a saudi man from riyahd. He says what he loves most about me is my freedom my independance and the fact that I can think for myself. He thinks saudi women are boring. Also he knows the thought of a second wife will never happen nor be tolerated. Married 7 years strong now with a 6 year old and #2 on the way! No regrets =)

  187. Um….most Saudi’s have only one wife. And mostly those are NOT foreign wives.

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