As more Saudi students travel abroad for university education there is an increase in bi-cultural relationships between predominantly Saudi men and foreign women. Ironically the Saudi women who travel abroad for university usually do not have the same interest or drive towards getting to know the opposite sex as the young Saudi men. The Saudi women whom I have known that are receiving their education abroad are more interested and enjoying the freedoms of learning how to drive and simply explore their new local area. Most of the Saudi women have not had the exposure interacting with non-related men and choose to avoid them for the most part.
Young Saudi men, on the other hand, are gregarious, charming and quickly have a wide variety of friends, to include foreign women. The Saudi man who travels outside of the Kingdom for education is made fully aware that he is prohibited from having a relationship with a foreign woman while abroad. However, in spite of this advanced knowledge, few if any men, will tell a foreign woman with whom he has become involved the details behind his scholarship.
The young Saudi man will generally tell the foreign woman that she is the love of his life and he’s never met anyone like her. She is going to be his wife. He will talk about how he loves her and woo her. He will be exceedingly polite with her family. The foreign woman and the family will find him very thoughtful and caring. He’ll take the time to sit with Grandmother or Grandfather even if they are hard of hearing and have a grand time with them. He will be good and at ease around young children. He will court the woman and her family with an old world charm and respect that is generally not seen among young American men.
As the relationship develops between a young Saudi man and woman, he’ll talk more that she will be his wife. He may very well talk about his family and assure the young woman they will love her. He’ll talk with passion about his home country. For the young woman who has never met a Saudi before, she will likely be overwhelmed and feel like she’s been picked up off of her feet and set upon a magic carpet ride. The young Saudi man with his dark hair and eyes and accent is exotic and ever so handsome.
He may attempt to sweet talk the young woman into an intimate relationship. That’s a warning sign. Such a relationship in Saudi Arabia is prohibited. A young woman may interpret a deeper and intimate relationship as a sign of commitment. The young Saudi man may view it as “what he can get away with.”
If a Saudi man alludes that he wants to marry the foreign woman she needs to learn about him and his family. When a woman marries a Saudi she marries his family. Marriages in Saudi remain arranged for the most part. If a Saudi talks about marriage to a foreign woman but she has not met or spoken to his mother and sisters via Skype then that is not a good sign. He may have introduced her to other male friends or male relatives but that is not the same. It is ingrained in a Saudi that the female family members and especially his mother should know of his choice if he is intent on marrying a woman.
A Saudi man should also be upfront and candid with a young woman about the Saudi scholarship program and Saudi marriage restrictions. Saudi students on scholarships are prohibited from marriage to a foreigner. Saudi men under the age of 35 are not to marry foreigners (non-Arabs). A Saudi student may try to make light of the requirements saying they do not apply to him or he has influence (WASTA) so that he can circumvent the requirements. He may try to persuade a foreign woman to marry while they are still students but keep it a quiet secret marriage. RED ALERT!!!!
It’s not that a Saudi isn’t free to marry. He is…in a sense. But once his scholarship is completed he is to return to Saudi Arabia. Or if it is discovered that he secretly married a foreigner while a student his scholarship would be revoked and he would return to the Kingdom. A Saudi can marry whom he wants but the Saudi government must approve the marriage in order for he and his foreign wife to live together in the Kingdom (legally) as husband and wife.
As a result many Saudi students do marry a foreigner while they are a student, keep it quiet and then return to Saudi Arabia promising to get to the approval. In too many cases, that is the last the woman has heard from him. In some cases he may return and try to get the approval but find himself embroiled in a mass of bureaucracy. Not to sound discouraging but the approval process can take years. It is complicated and more so if the young man’s Saudi family were not aware of his marriage or intention to marry a foreigner.
Every young woman in love with a Saudi will say that her Saudi is different. That’s true…each Saudi is different. But whether each one is truly honorable when it comes to a relationship with a foreign woman is the question.
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good information!
Thank you for all of this information American Bedu!
But what about if the Saudi male decides to stay in the US with his new American wife? Then is it necessary to get permission from the Kingdom? Shukran!
What if they just decided to stay in the woman’s home country?
oh my goodness, Grace, I guess we were typing at the same time. lol
If a couple decided to marry and remain in the wife’s home country there would not be as pressing as a reason to get the marraige approval. The marriage approval is to live legally in the Kingdom as husband and wife. However it would men that he would be relieant on getting visas for his own travel home. It’s doubtful a Saudi will stay out of the Kingdom without at least returning for some visits. If the Saudi is on a scholarship though he is prohibited from marriage while on the scholarship.
Children from a Sadui couple would be recognized as Saudi’s so eventually the hubby and children could travel to Saudi without the wife.
I agree with a lot of what has been said above based on what I have heard and my own personal experiences.
I have a lot more respect for a man if he is upfront about the kind of relationship he is truly after. There are plenty of women that are not looking for something serious. Why play around with the ones that are?!
If both of the people like living in the woman’s home country, then I don’t see why they shouldn’t consider making a home there generally speaking. I honestly think living somewhere like the UAE/Qatar would be a good compromise, though it can take a little more work and planning to get jobs there. It would be safe for her family to travel to, good standard of living, and close enough for his family to visit regularly. But of course, I also say this because I would love to travel and work in other countries.
I honestly wouldn’t recommend a relationship with A Saudi unless you know without a doubt you are both after the same type of relationship, whether that’s serious or casual. If you want a serious thing, take it slow. If he says, “I hope we can be together forever” or “I’ll never leave you alone” then ask him when he plans to introduce you to his family. If he’s not up for that or not willing to talk to you about it, that’s a red flag right there!
Someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought that if a Saudi student breaks the contract agreement stating the student will not marry a foreigner and will return home to Saudi Arabia after finishing at university, etc., the student would be required to pay a fine?
HI carol great advice, i think this will indeed help other girls out there who are thinking or are in a relationship to go through this check list. One more thing i think is VERY important to mention is religion. It plays a huge part of saudi’s day to day life, wether or not the saudi is a devout muslim or not, Islam will sooner or later be a part of the relationship in someway or another.
Good advice – and not only for those falling for a Saudi student, but someone from the GCC as well (although the same laws for scholarship don’t apply).
In my experience (personally and with friends), if ANY Arab man is serious about a woman, he’ll discuss his intent to marry her within 2-6 months. After 6 months, it seems that the suitor is not serious about the relationship.
Before an American women commits herself to a “serious relationship” with a Saudi man, it behooves her to do some “serious research” about living in the so-called “magic kingdom”. Here are some first person horror narratives (Los Angeles Times) of American women married to Saudi men and living in Saudi Arabia:
http://www.concordmonitor.com/article/american-wives-balance-values-find-place-in-islamic-society?page=0,0
Here’s an excerpt from the article ….
“For American women married to Saudi men, such is life in this exotic, repressive and often beguiling society where tribal customs and religious fervor rub against oil wealth and the tinted-glass skyscrapers that rise Oz-like in the blurry desert heat. This is not a land of the First Amendment and voting rights; it is a kingdom run by the strict interpretation of Wahhabi Islam, where abayas hang in foyers, servants linger like ghosts, minarets glow in green neon and, as a recent court case showed, a woman who is raped can also be sentenced to 200 lashes for un-Islamic behavior”.
Carol,
I was warned by one of my relatives that my ‘Saudi husband to be’ might eventually leave and never come back. I was told to prepare my heart just in case. Happily, I can say that in my case these warnings were unfounded.
Unhappiness and/or divorce can happen between any couple (no matter where they’re from) even after 30 years of marriage.
But, an additional factor that Western women fail to see is the other side of the Saudi. While getting to know him in the West, she may see him in mixed company (not allowed in Saudi), or she may see him going to movies (there are no movie theaters in Saudi). She may drive him around town to help him find his way. (Women may not drive in Saudi and they are not supposed to be alone with them)
My own husband’s friends invited me over for dinner and we all played volleyball together in America. But, when they came to visit us at our house in Saudi, they looked at me strangely and asked why I was still sitting with them. I thought they were just joking. And, THAT was the first time I learned that mixed company was not permitted in Saudi Arabia. The subject never came up while we were in the States. We did not have internet or blogs in America to check what the customs were like (for the majority of Saudis) here in the Kingdom.
Saudis, and other muslim men in the same family, can be as different as night and day. One may be open to letting his wife work or travel, while another may want his wife to stay at home and give up her career.
Just as the American Women’s Movement did not happen overnight, so too is this true for the Saudi women’s movement. The culture and the religion are vastly different as a whole. They are not such a melting pot as we are in the USA.
Women are becoming more educated and are beginning to speak up about the changes that they want to have in their lives. It will happen, but it may take longer than our women’s movement in the states. We need to be patient. Remember, 75% of the country is under the age of 25.
obviously, due to my experiences, my opinion is to avoid saudi and other arab men.
if it’s not the religion (and that’s a biggie!), it’s the family. if it’s not the family or its honour, it’s the society. what you feel/think doesn’t matter at all. it’s the woman who always has to adjust herself, make compromises.
women should run at the sound of “convert so that we can be together”.
who would willingly decide to lead such life where your voice means nothing?
Kasia, I hear ya! I have a very hard time understanding how these men can be soooo wonderful yet subject their wives to such a life. Yes, I know, I’ve heard all the ‘stand by your man’ scenarios but what about standing by your woman and ensuring HER happiness? Or, how about part ways so that each will have a chance at a good, happy life? It WILL hurt but you WILL get over it. I know this for a fact. I think it takes a mature and strong person to understand that and to act accordingly. I’m SO thankful that my Yemeni boyfriend of 5 years got it, I was too young and stupid. LOL Not that I would have followed him back home but I would probably have married him thinking he would have been happy here. What can I say? I was young. LOL
wow Lynn! i think it worked out for the best for you in the end
do you think he wouldn’t have been happy in States?
i found out a lot of things when i already invested a lot in the relationship with my ex. i felt as if someone cheated on me when i discovered all those rules, family dynamics etc that i knew i can never win with unless i give up everything i stand for and who i am.
i think a lot of people don’t realize how different the culture, family dynamics is that they think it’s gonna be alright. it WON’T if one side has to give up pretty much everything to be with the other. that’s not love and respect!
when push comes to shove, the will of the family WILL override wife’s feelings/thoughts, religion WILL take precedence because that’s how it works. you just can’t win… you just can’t win..
No, I don’t think he would have been happy here. If I wouldn’t be happy living so far from my family what makes me think that HE could be happy living so far from his? Right? Also, he felt an obligation to his family (brothers, as his parents were deceased) for sending him to school here so he would probably not have liked himself if he had reneged on his agreement and those kinds of feelings tend to cause problems eventually. My girlfriend did marry a friend of his and they lived here for a while but then he got bullied and guilted into going back to Yemen to take his turn at taking care of mom and ‘old maid’ sister. It worked well for a while because my friend is OVERLY nice and accommodating as well as adventurous but even SHE got worn down and they are now divorced and she is back home and she has been cured of her adventurous personality. She says that she will NEVER set foot outside this country again! LOL
Then there are the others that are very eager to marry you and they DO want to stay here, or rather they DO want an American Green Card.
but as soon as they get that they divorce you and go home to marry a ‘real’ wife. Yes, I have another girlfriend that fell for that one. No lie, the divorce happened the minute he got his green card. Oh well, it’s not like I didn’t warn her. lol
oh dear! you do have stories to tell, don’t you?
i read stories like the ones you told before and it always made my heart sink. because the odds in favour of such relationships working out are pretty much next to nothing, even when great love is involved. not worth the heartache. i learned it the hard way.
i’m glad that Carol is writing about it but i also think that maybe female students should be somehow informed as well.
Harry posted an interesting link to read but I feel like the author wrote a slanted and biased piece.
For the record, a woman is NOT required to convert to Islam in order to marry a Saudi (or any Muslim). That alone indicated to me that the author was biased and did not research or choose to omit facts to present a slanted story.
I like to think that people do meet their perfect life partner and do live happily ever after. I am not against or biased against Saudis and non-Saudis who choose to marry. If they believe they are the ones for each other – go for it! Because the culture and traditions between East and West (USA and KSA especially) are so diverse, each partner needs to deeply investigate and know as much as possible before making these life changing decisions which impact on each other, future children and extended families!
okay….Mother Hen hat/rave mode is now off!
I don’t know, Carol. The article certainly didn’t make the marriages sound wonderful but there WAS that one that seems to have fully embraced the anti-American sentiment with the whole blaming of the US for her kid learning about oral sex! LOL
But regarding what they said about ‘Most non-Muslim women convert to Islam as a prerequisite for marrying a Saudi and living in the kingdom’
Did you know many non-Muslims married to Muslim Saudis? While it may not be a requirement to become Muslim in order to marry a Saudi perhaps the Saudi lets her know that it would be easier for her and for the marriage approval process, if she was, even if it was on paper only. No?
I do know a fair number of non-Muslims who have married Saudis and that is only within my limited realm.
A Saudi consular officer should also inform any woman subject to an interview for a family (marriage) visa know that she was not obligated to convert to Islam for marriage.
How do you know? I think that that answer can be given after about 15 to 20 years, if he stood up for you, supported you, gave you your rights as a free human being, and your marriage was a fair, equal, loving partnership, with no secret (or in plain-sight) other wives etc. Then you would know.
So how do you know? Keep a diary for 20 years.
‘A Saudi consular officer should also inform any woman subject to an interview for a family (marriage) visa know that she was not obligated to convert to Islam for marriage.’
Wouldn’t it likely be too late by then? Also, wouldn’t she be sufficiently afraid to tell the truth at an interview just in case it impeded her entry into KSA?
For some, Lynn, of course it would. We know not all women (and their backbones) are alike! (smile)
I am with AA on this. There are no rules for a ‘successful’ marriage. I have seen it both ways, the ones that shouldn’t work out but do and the ones that everybody says are a ‘perfect match made in heaven’ but end up in hell.
Yeah, after 20 years one has an idea if the marriage is going to work, after 30 he/she can almost be sure. Even so I would say the big thing, after 20+ years, is when the kids move out. If it lasts 20 years beyond the children leaving, it is a good marriage and probably will work out. But then again I know a couple that divorced after 52 years marriage…. why?
Saudi males are just like other men, mostly. Ladies, we are basically dogs. I hate to say that but most men are easily turned by a pretty face and sweet words, IF OTHER UNSPECIFIED CONDITIONS ARE PRESENT.
Anybody that changes their religion to please their spouse or get married is on shaky ground already.
“Anybody that changes their religion to please their spouse or get married is on shaky ground already.”
Amen!
@Lynn
“No lie, the divorce happened the minute he got his green card. Oh well, it’s not like I didn’t warn her. lol”
That’s a load of bull. There’s a two year period after the green card issuance, where if a divorce does occur they’ll actually revoke your green card. US immigration officers take their job very seriously, and for the most part they can tell if a guy/girl is being duped. They usually request evidence of you two living together, pictures with family, etc.
BTW
Even if a woman becomes or is already a Muslim, usually the family of any Musilm man (especially saudi) dont accept her if they didnt pick her, its just a fact.
Rather than blame saudi men i’d say it’s a eastern Vs western culture incompatibility and an unwillingness for either party to adjust. By adjust i don’t mean change religion etc.,
As for divorce after green card, there’s no time limit, they just need to be married for a certain amount oftime, as far as i know once you have the green card , you have it, you could divorce and go your way adn Immigration is too busy to do anything, unless the wife complains of the fake marriage
Saudi students are out to have a good time, like any other student, their families are far away and they have a decent amount of privacy and no stories get back home, hence they play
My son has quite a bit of international friends, incl a few saudi’s they all play !!!! incl the saudi’s that is till they came home one day and met F 
and realized he’s one of their kind and then they simply dissapeared on us and i’m sure continued their merry ways…
There are ofcourse mature saudis who are in in for the long run and my advise would be settle for a few yrs in a place away from both sets of parents . maybe a neutral 3rd country ? perhaps
I think everyone needs to listen closely to Radha’s advice and experiences!!
Uorig, Sorry but what I said was NOT a load of bull. Well, it was, BUT it WAS true, 100%. This was 30 years ago so perhaps things are more strict now? I CERTAINLY hope so! I think it was her 18th birthday that they got married. She was even STILL in High School for God’s SAKE and he rented a room in the home of an elderly woman (stranger) and that was their home. He was going to school and working at a 7-11 or something. I swear, I too was just a kid then but I knew it was ridiculous!!! My girl friend did NOT think this was just a ‘Green Card’ marriage when she married him (well, as far as she told me anyway and we were BEST friends)
I think there are a lot of Saudi men that date women and don’t pretend it’s serious and that they’re going to marry her when they’re not. This pretending to be serious is something any guy can do. Women have to wise-up a bit. It isn’t enough that murmurs sweet nothings all day and is charming as hell- that is not enough to make a good husband. Frankly the above description sounds a bit smarmy to me. I’d be suspicious. Also, I would NEVER consent to any sort of engagement while not being able to meet the family. I don’t care what culture some one is from. That is just common sense. And regardless of my own values- many young American women are intimate with boyfriends they are not serious about- so why should they take that as a sign a guy is serious?
I don’t know. I’ve known marriages that worked and those that went wrong. But this post is more about relationships than actual marriages. And these “relationships” seem to be full of all the same nonsense as can happen with any charming young man not ready to settle down for whatever reason and any woman with stars in her eyes, who isn’t paying attention. Being Saudi doesn’t seem like much a factor here.
I agree Sandy, being Saudi doesn’t have anything to do with it. Girls just need to be smart. But also, I don’t think that 18 – 20 year old college students really have marriage on their minds anyway and if marriage isn’t what they are looking for then no problem, date who ever you want.
By the way, that guy that my friend married was not a
Saudi and he wasn’t Muslim either. He was a Lebanese Christian. The situation WAS smarmy and I told her so and guess what, just a few months after she got married her father, yes, her FATHER told her that since she was now a married woman it was probably best she did not hang with single people (she didn’t know any married people lol, she was in high school!!). When she told me that ‘dilemma’ of hers I figured she’d lost her mind completely so I was done with her from that minute on. I guess I never had much patience for stupidity, even way back then! Met up with her a few months after graduation and learned that he’d divorced her and she felt like an idiot.
While I agree that there are many consistences in ‘relationship issues’ regardless of nationality or location, I do believe there are distinctions with a relationship with a Saudi. I’ll try to explain as best as the brain will work today… When a Saudi male comes to another country where his culture and customs are different then it can open up a door to misunderstandings and perceptions. I think a Saudi guy will say words which imply more of a permanency to a relationship even though he may not mean it or know it to be that way. The foreign woman in turn can be dazzled by the Saudi guy who is very different with his words, accent and mannerisms than the guys she may have grown up knowing. For example in Western countries it is not as surprising if a young man or woman is very independent and making decisions without necessarily consulting a family member. A woman may not think twice hearing a Saudi speak of marriage and accepting that she would not speak or meet any family members right away due to distance and/or language barriers.
I hear what you’re saying Carol- but still feel that unless he’s lying- then all this stuff is pretty much the norm. Most people don’t introduce a boyfriend/girlfriend to their families right away- but if the talk turns to marriage, they usually do. And while a girl may be dazzled by a foriegn guy, if she lets herself get carried away because he has an exotic accent- well then she’s not mature enough to be thinking marriage anyway.
If the Saudi guy is talking marriage and “forever” love- when he knows it’s not going to happen he’s just a player. Like all the other players. Now maybe Saudi guys lie more than others- I don’t know. But there are a lot of young women out their with broken hearts who never met a Saudi.
I do understand this to be a description of the form it takes when a Saudi is involved however. I just think mostly girls need to wise up.
This post brings on a serious case of deja vu…haven’t we already done the…dont trust Saudi men outside the kingdom…or inside for that matter?
Yes Coolred- but I just know too many nice, honorable Saudi men to completely go with it.
@Coolred: With increasing number of scholarships awarded for Saudi students to come to the USA, I think it is important to readdress. Not everyone has followed the blog for several years or searches the archives.
@Sandy: I do want to believe that young women will not allow themselves to be “bedazzled” by any thing as simple as a foreign accent. Yet how many times have you heard or seen a starry eyed woman say “Oh, how I love that British accent!” (smile)
I know of a number of honorable and lovely young Saudi men too who would not think of misleading a woman.
uorig…
Having been an american who has gone through the green card procedure with my husband (whom I am still married to) I can tell you what Lynn says is very true. When we got our green card we were at the American embassy in India staffed by Americans. After more than a year and a half of waiting and filling out paperwork and all the mickey mouse red tape that is required, it boiled down to this: They called our name. We approached the window: “papers please” which we shoved through bullet proof glass. The man took a silver stamp and WITHOUT even looking up or asking a single question about what type of shampoo I use or my husbands favorite food, he stamped several pieces of paper and that was it! There were no green card moments to be had. Not one single question asked to prove we were married. However, just to hedge our bets in case they didn’t believe we were really married we brought our 8 month old daughter with us as proof!
Oby, it didn’t take anything like that for my friend. I’m pretty sure she was only married for 6 months but they were living here so that could make a difference, I suppose.
Based on my experiences, it seems to me that a lot of Saudi guys (as well as men in general) tend to have different expectations for a girlfriend than they have for a wife. Many times, the girlfriend is given more freedom to do as she pleases, but when you hear them talking about getting married and what they will and will not allow their wife to do it’s as if everything magically changes. This is why I may never marry. This is also why I can’t decide whether or not it is better to be a a non-”serious”, non-committal relationship or if it is better to be in a “serious” one with/without a marriage contract.
I trust some Saudi men, and others I don’t. More often, I trust them to be honest with me about certain things and possibly not with other things. I think the trust thing really depends on the individual and how they act.
@Sandy, AB:
I think a phrases like those I mentioned above (i.e. “I hope we can be together forever” and “I’ll never leave you alone”) may be understood differently by the Saudi/non-Saudi in the relationship. At least, this is what supposedly happened to me previously.
I don’t think a nice accent would be enough. Besides, what accent is hotter than a latino/spanish one (particularly Mexican)?
j/k j/k Seriously, though, I find being open-minded, intelligent, and adventurous men to be exceedingly sexy. This has nothing to do with accent or nationality. Can’t speak for other women and why they “fall” for a Saudi, though.
@Uorig, Lynn.
Based on what I researched recently, Uorig is right about the marriage needing to last 2 years after green card approval in order for it to remain valid. I think this is to prevent people from committing fraud and/or being used, etc.
hi Lynn…
We lived in the usa but were told by lour lawyer sometimes the process moves faster in the home country,,,I guess less cases to handle. Were they married while he was here on a tourist visit? I was told the type of visa one enters the usa on has a great deal of influence on how easy or hard it is to get a green card… evidently coming here on a tourist visa makes it easier than as a student…go figure.
Oh, I don’t know what kind of Visa he came on. I believe he was a student but he also worked (may have been under the table though) But, again, this was 30 years ago.
salaams,
first, i’d like to say that i love your blog. i only recently discovered it, and i’m sure i could spend hrs upn hrs reading everything.
i’ve decided to comment on to this post bcuz it i have my own experience to share. i am an american married to a saudi guy, and living in riyadh. we met in america, while we were in college.
while i would most definitely advise girls on this topic, not all stories are bad ones. my hubby and i met while we were very young and i don’t believe at the time either one of us were thinking of marriage. but something happen.
13 yrs after meeting, 7 1/2 of those yrs living in saudi, here we are, still together, with our own family.
i don’t believe that these relationships will work for just anybody. the saudi guy must be upfront and forthcoming. and the girl has to be one tough cookie.
not to bore you but these are, what i feel, important points…
religion…although i married before converting to islam i do believe that it would’ve been very tough had i never converted. understanding islam helps you understand some of the culture here in saudi. it also helps you to understand that islam is not always being practiced correctly here, and thereby gives you the right to stand up for islam (like women driving is not unislamic…lol…sorry, had to throw that in). i did not change my religion or “believe” in something for someone else. religion is a very personal choice. i studied islam for 2 yrs, on my own, and chose it for me. i love my husband, but changing my religion was not a way to measure my love. it is something that even i was surprised to find. but i now thank God for that. being parents, i think we can make better parenting decisions because our faiths are the same. also, many things that i may have found shocking as a non-muslim, i see as part of a normal islamic life (praying 5 times a day, fasting in ramadan, etc, etc,) so any couple thinking about marriage should greatly consider this part of it all.
culture…i’ve always been very open to other cultures. they fascinate me actually. i think it was no surprise to family and friends that i married someone from another country. but even the most open-minded person will find struggles outside their comfort zone. if saudis themselves have struggles with their society (and believe me, they do), then certainly non-saudis will too. a girl would need a strong understanding on saudi culture before coming here. i did my own research. i talked to ppl who came here b4 me (i had friends in my local mosque in the U.S. who were able to help with this). and my hubby is a great guy. he told me the good and the bad, the pretty and the ugly. he never painted a picture perfect view. he was very fair.
family…it is true that a woman marries her husband and his family. and the husband’s family can truly affect her life here. i am so fortunate that i was not only accepted by hubby’s family, but welcomed into all aspects of family life. they had a wedding for us right after i moved here. they took care of me after delivering my son. my mil checks on me when i’m sick. i know that if i need anything, anything at all, all i need to do is ask. did they like the idea of their son marrying from outside? i’m sure at first not. but they accepted that this is what their son wanted. and once they met me, i was no longer a stereotype or an idea, i was me. and thankfully, they like me.
i have friends who can say the same, and i have friends who deal with a lot of issues. so it really depends on the family. each one is different. i must also add that as important as his family will be, so should yours. we visit my family every summer in the U.S. it’s not even a question. and we go together, as a family. i have friends whose husbands don’t travel with them when they visit their famililes. for me, i don’t like this. my hubby is a part of my family. he married me, so they are part of the deal, just like his family. and i keep in constant contact with my family. i feel so sad when i meet women who have moved here and lost touch with their families back home. actually, in islam, one must keep ties with their family.
patience…marrying a saudi guy is not easy. we had to endure 3 1/2 yrs of long distance. even though my family loved my hubby, i’m sure there were doubts. it was not easy to understand why paperwork should take so long. but we talked every single day, never gave up, and made it through. it depends on how much you’re willing handle.
yourself…the key to it all. NEVER lose yourself. i remember my 1st visit home to the U.S. after moving here. my mom told me that i was still me. and i was thinking “of course i’m still me”. what she meant was that i hadn’t changed. i adapted to a different culture, but i didn’t lose myself in the process. there are certain things that hubby and i must do for cultural reasons in the U.S. and here in saudi (ex: in the U.S. we are in mixed company with my family, it’d be rude not to. in Saudi, i sit with his mom and sisters while he’s with his dad and brothers for the weekly gathering bcuz that’s how it’s done here). it’s called adapting. but we are still ourselves. there’s a difference between respecting traditions and putting on different faces.
so with all that being said (and i know i said a lot…lol), it can work. but proceed with caution, educate yoursef, and respect yourself so that you will be respected by others.
Oby,
I didn’t see your first comment until after I had posted yesterday, otherwise I would have taken into consideration what you had said about immigration and green card status. Thank you for sharing your experiences with us.
All,
When a couple of people from the Middle Eastern region had figured out I’d been in/am in a relationship with a Saudi, they had the opinion of “Why would [I] do that?!…Saudi men don’t treat their women very well…The laws do not protect women there.” I wasn’t that surprised to hear this, just surprised to hear them be so adamant about it. Any thoughts or opinions on this?
I would agree that Saudi laws do not protect women. But some Saudi men treat their women well and some do not- just like everyone/everywhere else.
@ Sandy
i do agree with what you said but i have a question.
probably it might be perceived as very judgemental but here it comes…
do you think that maybe because the way saudi men are brought up, in a country where laws do not support women, where women are limited in so many ways, with the way family dynamics works etc, they are the way they are? of course there will be men who will not subscribe to the way of thinking they were brought up with but wouldn’t they be in minority?
thanks
@Kasia,
I would say that the laws/culture etc do affect the way some men are. I don’t know that I could say majority etc. It gets tricky to generalize. I am often suprised at how some men in the west behave. But yes, I think a bad system sometimes spoils those that would be otherwise good men. Like parents can spoil children. Sometimes they stay damaged and sometimes they change as adults.
Sometimes what looks awful isn’t necessrily. I know MANY American women- if they divorced their husbands because of incompatibility (i’m not talking abuse etc) and their husbands wanted to take the children “home” to another country would use whatever laws they could to keep the children with them. Sometimes a problem has no good fair solution- and in Saudi the advantage is always to the man.
I would also like to add- and think everyone should know- that I spell better than I type!!
Sandy, thanks for your reply.
i was thinking about it cause i know of many men who were brought up in very traditional families where a woman was a full-time mother and was taking care of the house. those men, more often than not, want their future wives to be stay-at-home mothers and housewives. and this is just an influence of a small family unit!
as you always rightly point out – in saudi the advantage is always to the man, law-wise.
When it comes to Saudis and men, choosing the right guy can be a choice between heaven and hell. The problem is that neither apparent until it is too late (or it never becomes a problem).
Chiara has a case in point. Once again a young woman’s dream turned into a nightmare. As bad as it is to her, she has to live with her choices and the outcomes that affect her children. Her Saudi is serious – about making life miserable for her and her children. Here is the link:
http://www.chezchiara.com/2011/06/saudi-activists-wajeha-al-huwaider-and.html
This should not happen, this may not happen but it can happen. Of course, not all Saudi men are like this and I have seen a few cases of them letting the wife AND CHILDREN go. Too often, however, the woman is bound to a false idol by the chains of children. I suspect the father’s family is a big factor in these cases. Even if a man is serious today, and truly loves his wife, that doesn’t men he cant/wont change or that other factors, including cultural or religious, will not aggravate any problem.
Marriage is complicated enough even in the best circumstances. When dealing with Arabia and Saudi men, I think a young woman has to ask herself if her love is such that she will risk a ?? percent chance of losing her children and even suffering prolonged emotional or physical abuse, with no hope for justice or remedy.
Random comment but I seriously hate the phrase ‘full time mom”.
Another random comment…my lord, Jay, really trying to stir the hornets nest by making reference to Chiara on this blog…yet another brilliant commentor that was hounded due to her unwillingness to conform and bow to the concensus on this blog. You are a brave man indeed.
lol sorry coolred! i didn’t know how else to put it
I don’t know, Red. I think irritating and a bit ‘touched’ is a more apt description of that commenter. At least as far as I remember.
Lynn…. I think irritating and a bit ‘touched’ is a more apt description”…lol …that could describe just about any of us on this blog.
I came across your Alarabiya interview and it got me interested in googling your blog. I read this article first and I laughed in joy really hard.. you really do know saudis. I have been in the u.s. since 2008 and I met a lot of saudis who have had almost the same scenarios you told.
I had lovely time reading your blog Carol. Hope to see you in Saudi Arabia one day. Good Luck!
@Coolred, I don’t think Jay was around here to know of Chiara or was he? (I’m not sure.) I remember her posts but missed the reason why she left the blog. I know a lot of people complained about the length of her posts though I do remember she often left very thought provoking posts so it was worth the effort in reading them! I agree this blog has lost many valuable commenters. I have become more brave to leave my own comments after years of reading this blog and have not enjoyed the negative feedback for sharing my opinions. This blog can be brutally negative and divisive and I have noticed over the years that a lot of commenters take the “you’re either with us or against us” approach and are not willing to accept other people’s points of view in a diplomatic manner. I find this really sad and agree with your previous post in that for some unknown reason this blog seems to bring out the beast in a lot of us. Many of us, myself included, have stepped on some toes here but we can improve things by remembering to temper our ardor with more compassion and understanding for other people’s opinions. We don’t have to agree but should be willing to accept that other people think differently and that is ok.
Sorry to go off topic AB. I do not have much to add for your above post about Saudi’s relationships but very much enjoyed the info. I also found Jay’s link to Natalie’s story very sad and hope she has sorted things now.
Sure, Red, it very likely could
but I’m pretty darn sure that her point of view on things was NOT the issue.
A Saudi man is looking, for marriage, a college educated, preferably graduate education, tall, blond, curvaceous US woman. If you are interested and find yourself suitable, please hular at me.
Saudi Bedu.
@km,
For some reason I didn’t notice your comment before. Thank you for sharing your experiences.
@Sandy,
I want to be clear that I don’t personally believe all Saudi guys are bad or anything like that. I was honestly just surprised at others’ reactions. To be personally honest, the Saudis I’ve been in a relationship with aren’t bad guys even though we may not always see eye to eye on everything. I agree the laws there do not favor women, especially when compared to the US.
And if you happen to spell better than you type, then your spelling must be really good!
@Coolred,
If you don’t mind me asking, why does the statement “full-time mom” bother you? I don’t mean any disrespect, just for me it is an acknowledgement of how hard good mothers work to be there for their children (please notice I said “good mothers”).
Rose, I was her when the Chiara Wars happened but didn’t get too involved. When women get out knives, any man with a lick of sense will run and take cover. I have/had problems with her regarding censorship, real or imagined, and her political correctness and kumbayah attitude drive me nuts, but the link was relevant as a “worst case scenario” for this topic.
I still have no idea what makes a marriage work, except love and lots of love, and realistic love. I guess something has to “click” (now how is that for a scientific explanation???). I think my wife said it best – that separation, being single or alone is bad/sad because you have to one to share your emotional pain and suffering when death and sickness come knocking.
The fact is that young men and women are rarely rational. They are too easily moved by infatuations, emotions, and sexual urges. Most (?) young men will do almost anything to get some booty (I think that is the proper term but not sure).
Back to blogging and bloggers. The reason for the success of AmBedu is the brutality (as you put it) of the subject matter and the freedom we who comment have to express ourselves without fear of the blogger hitting the ‘delete, offensive material’ button. I don’t know Carol personally, but she has my total respect. She is a strange mixture of tenderness, frankness and honesty. I am sure she drives some Muslims crazy for being so tolerant of some views here and allowing or posting subject matter that many find offensive or would rather ignore.
I think we have a pretty good mix of posters here that represent a balanced, informed variety of opinions, with the possible exception of Harry who is obviously a few cans short in his six-pack.
Rose, You know my position, at least on some religious dogma and those who practice it. Even so, after 8-9 years of this, I can say that this blog is one of the few places in about 1,000,000,000 domains where ideas are exchanged freely between equals. You may be surprise to know that it has even improved my opinion of Muslims, some Muslims. Whatever my difference in opinion with them, the fact that some of our Muslim friends here will read the comments and take a stand, disagree with me, contradict my position, and point out fallacies – well, to me, that elevates them, morally and intellectually. They don’t have to agree with me, but if they listen to what I have to say, that is enough for respect. Too often Muslims cannot, will not take any criticism, and will call for censorship or repression to shield them from new or uncomfortable ideas, particularly regarding their religion and prophet. This is their loss, I believe, and this is responsible for many of the problems they have. Freedom of speech, even offensive speech, is fundamental.
Rose, you take care. Harry I was joking, kind of.
@Rosemary – ‘I agree this blog has lost many valuable commenters’
My memory is shot! Could you perhaps list a few and remind me what was valuable about them? I for one do NOT miss the one that called out everyone who disagreed with him as ‘profoundly ignorant’.
I miss Maggie and Inal!
I think I know who you mean Lynn. I don’t miss them either. I also don’t miss Daisy- but I think many others probably do. I do miss Maggie. I don’t remember the Chiara wars..hmmmm..
Maggie?
Chiara ‘wars’? Weren’t her issues more with the blog owner and her desire to BE the blog owner? Creepy LOL
I appreciate the exchange of views. I believe all blogs go through phases. Some commentors come and go and new commentors participate. I like hearing all the views even when we (tastefully/diplomatically/respectfully) agree to disagree.
I will probably have this is in a separate upcoming post but I’ve gone back into aggressive treatment with 18 chemo sessions ahead of me (God Willing). I will do all I can to keep up with comments, welcomes and enjoying the dialogues. If I can’t….I am placing faith and trust in all of you to keep the comments going. I write my posts in advance so on my downest days (if there is such a word) I can give ya’ll a topic or issue to discuss.
Maggie was great! i was going through the posts from the latest to older ones and came across her comments. I also emailed her and she helped me a lot to understand certain things for which I will be forever grateful to her.
” (tastefully/diplomatically/respectfully) agree to disagree” …hmmmm.
What happened to NN and the the lady with Thai heritage who had been a Mormon at one time? I remember she was having lung trouble. Hope she is OK!
I must be getting old as I can’t remember all the commenters..I missed the “Chiara Wars” and don’t remember her on this blog at all. Maggie was great and I actually enjoyed OnigiriFB. She and I went back and forth on a couple of topics but I never felt disrespected. also What was the name of the Muslim lady, who recently commented on some topics and most of us found her very refreshing due to the honest way she tackled islam and the separation between culture…if I remember right she had issues with hadith and it’s veracity.
oby…if you enjoyed Onigiri it’s only because she didnt target you for character assassination. That girl needs lessons on civility and how to make a point without spitting poison all over the damn place.
you are right…she didn’t attack me but it did get hot…I admit toward the end of her tenure she was getting a bit hostile. I had forgotten that and thanks for reminding me. …still the debate she and I had really made me think about some of her points strongly. Sorry she was so ugly to you.
I think we are analyzing this too much. Any blog or site that dares to be interesting by taking on pertinent topics, risks that there will be heated discussions. What happens at Bedu is mild compared to other sites.
I think all arguments are valid as long as they do not turn personal. Commentators that step over the line and get personal usually lose, as others see through the ad hominem.
@Coolred38, I know you have been attacked in a very unpleasant way before. However, if you really think about it, it reflected badly on the other person than you (personal opinion, that I think others agree with).
Moq…heated discussions are great…who needs or wants boring same ole same ole…I have no issues with what people say on this blog or any other…but considering we are all adults (I believe) it seems simple civility shouldnt have to be the exception and not the norm.
As for the rest of your comment…i agree.
I think there is something in the nature of the space the internet creates. I’m definately snappier online than I would be in person. Working on that- but out it comes!
I think that is a common trait about use of the internet and online forums where anonymity is the norm.
I’m an american woman into her fourth year of college. I have met many saudi men that attend my university and befriended them. I have read through the many comments and have decided that yes, everyone has a story that is as different as each person is. What I’ve come to find is that there is going to be many successful relationships and MANY unsuccessful ones. Its going to be hard to make a relationships work WITHOUT the added pressure of it being with a saudi man because there are so many barriers between you and him. The things that I have learned from them is that their family, religion, and country is everything. I’m in a relationship with one and we’ve had our many ups and downs that have nothing to do with us being from completely opposite sides of the planet literally and figuratively. Both of our families would probably not tolerate us even knowing each other let alone dating, so we keep it a secret besides our friends. We’re both really young and not thinking anything serious, but I have met his sisters on skype and will meet his parents this fall when they come to the states. The key is to take everything slow and if God wants us together then he will let it happen, enshallah. I don’t know where it is going to go, but I know him through to his core and he is an amazing man full of a love that I have not found in american men. He cares more deeply for me than I do for myself. I’m not going to say he is so different and would never break my heart because any human is capable of that whether they are muslim or christian or hindu or atheist. My advice for any woman interested had better know what she is getting into and know the religion, the language, the customs, and that it is closer to impossible than they think. But go with your gut instinct. Don’t listen to the fluff anyone, including him, feeds you. Know there are many other girls going through the same thing and reach out to them. Know one guy is not holding your world up, but you are.
@AbuChubta,
It is true that each case is individual- HOWEVER they are all the same when it comes to the legal situation. If you live in Saudi you essentially have no rights- except those your husband gives you. And if things go badly further down the line, you are out of luck, and no real recourse. Law determines inheritance, child custody, alimony and whether you can legally reside in the kingdom.
God lets a lot of things happen. He will let it happen even when it’s a bad idea. So use the brain God gave you. God gave us free will. God helps those who help themselves.
I have an intimate question regarding Saudi men and their foreign girlfriends. I have always wondered about those in serious relationships (where sex is involved). Can the use of contraceptives determine whether he is serious or not?
This may be a bit too intimate for some, and I respect those who would like to avoid the topic.
I heard about a couple where a woman (non-Saudi) became pregnant by her Saudi boyfriend. She was also an international student, and returned to her country (South America). He ended up following her and marrying her.
I ask this, because my Saudi and I risk getting pregnant, and I assume he’s either uneducated about conception, or doesn’t mind taking the risk.
Sex does not mean it is a serious relationship. If you became pregnant it won’t be his problem unless he wants it to be. He can just leave. Happens all the time. Are you uneducated about contraception? Do you mind taking the risk? You’re both also risking STD’s. I feel sorry for any child that may come of this situation.
In fact I would add- it is more likely to be a serious relationship if sex is NOT involved.
I may have you mixed up with someone else- but if you are the young woman with the young rich Saudi “clients” if would take a miracle for him to be serious. How would even introduce you to his family? Explain how you met? What would he do when your former “clients” talk about your former profession? And, if as it sounds, he is one of these students with too much time and money on his hands- all they have to do is cut off his finances.
You might try asking him…what do you plan on doing if I become pregnant? You might get a truthful answer. Or is not discussing these importent things part of your “serious” relationship? I don’t mean to be harsh but you sound very young.
escortdiary…why are u leaving all precautions to him anyhow? It takes two people to be ignorant about sex…not just one. And Saudi men are just like any other men…they can run for the hills at the announcement of pregnancy…or offer marriage as a “suitable” recourse for the mistake that happened….or offer marriage as a true sign of devotion. Are you willing to find out which category he will fall in?
I’m willing to bet that he assumes that she is on birth control like all those other ‘loose’ women in the ‘West’
@Sandy
I appreciate your insight and advice on the subject, but I’d like to know where you’re getting your information from and how much experience do you have with men from saudi arabia? No disrespect at any level, I just want to know why your tone is so authoratative, are you saudi or were married to a saudi man? I am simply curious.
@AbuChubta,
It’s a good question- I don’t take any disrespect at all, I’ve been married to a Saudi for more than 20 years and most of those have been in Saudi where I currently live.
That is a very sensitive subject but one which is important to bring up. I know that there are many in the Kingdom who do not support birth control and for a lot of young women (and men) it is not a subject which is discussed.
Personally I think that when physical intimacy enters into the equation between a Saudi man and a woman prior to marriage then the relationship is not as strong or serious as the woman may hope or like to believe. The man will take what is offered. He may also have encouraged her – no denying that either. But once a woman gives in, the relationship is no longer the same.
A woman who gives herself prior to the Saudi man may lose immediate respect in his eyes…in other words, she had no pride in herself and sold herself cheap. That -can- be the mindset of a young Saudi man.
Bottom line is do not take chances for an unplanned pregnancy or some kind of STD.
That is my view as an American woman married to a Saudi man. I’d like to hear the views from some of American Bedu’s Saudi and Arab audience.
No, we have spoke about the risks…we are fully aware. When I told him I may get pregnant, he said that would be great, and often says he would like to see me pregnant. We are both in the mindset of: If it happens, it happens. We are in love, and sex is an expression of love. I really cannot understand those who say a serious relationship does NOT involve sex? Of course, the act is often misused, but what is real love without true intimacy?
My Grandmother used to say: In the old days, children were the result of two people deeply in love, and it wasn’t something that was planned (as it is today).
Yes, he was my “client,” but we’ve become more serious. I am normal woman, who just happens to do something that defies social “norms”….however, my profession is not a barrier to him marrying me (all I have to do is stop, and that’s all most men really care about). What will stop him from marrying me is Saudi law, and family pressures.
Serious relationships with Saudi men involve planning real commitment. Not having sex. Understand it or not that is it. A relationship is about far more than sex. He was a client. So he no longer pays you? What will he say to his family when they ask how you met? Does he know your other Saudi clients? He doesn’t mind that you have other clients? You only have to stop if you marry him? So how is he showing seriousness to wanting to marry you? Wishing to see you pregnant is not what I mean. What are the plans for meeting his parents? Are you engaged? Will you stop seeing other men when you are engaged? Have you discussed a timeline?
You are both of the mindset “if it happens, it happens” regarding a pregnancy. How extraordinarily selfish. How can you risk bringing a chid into such an unstable situation? And you think this is an expression of true love? True lasting love is about commitment and responsibility as well. Intimacy is about more than sex. I can’t even begin to imagine how he would approach his family with an already pregnant “girlfriend” who is a high end prostitute. You are in dreamland. I think he is living out some weird fantasy that he figures he has bought and paid for and will be gone at his own convenience.
Here is my view based on my experiences as an American woman who studied abroad and has been in 2 very different relationships with 2 very different Saudi students:
I think that how a Saudi male views sex and physical intimacy in a relationship depends on how he was raised. I would say that the majority expect their future wife to remain chaste irregardless of what they themselves may do, but there are exceptions to every rule. I have met some of these exceptions. I also believe that the first Saudi guy I was in a relationship with was one of these exceptions, and (most likely) the second one as well. Some others seem to have been brought up with the idea their brides should be virgins even while they sleep around with various other women, but are a bit confused at the same time. I have seen men struggle with inner conflict on this matter. At least, this is what I inferred based on their comments and actions.As a whole, they also seemed to be more accepting of Western women sleeping around before marriage than Saudi women. Perhaps it’s not fair, but it’s what seemed to be the case.
That said, I believe that for whatever reason, a lot of the ones who choose to (seriously) date women from other places want to take things slowly, no matter how fast or slow physical intimacy takes place, in order to make sure the woman is worth all the extra trouble and effort associated with marrying a foreigner. If they are seriously interested in you then they are probably looking for a love match, so they want to make sure it’s the real thing. At least, this is my POV on the matter.
@escortdiary,
I mean no disrespect, but I would like to point out that sexual intimacy is just one of the many ways to show love for another person. If two people care for and love each other, then they love each other. I really think when and where sex enters into the relationship is up to the individuals involved and it’s really no one else’s business.
My personal opinion is that sex within the confines of a committed relationship is the best option, whether or not it is called a marriage and/or has been approved by courts or a religious group. However, I also understand that there are many reasons people have sex and I’m not here to judge.
I’d also like to add that I’m among the minority who wouldn’t mind getting pregnant and being a single parent. In some ways, I find it preferable though a bit controversial. That said, the thought of getting pregnant by a guy who could possibly be allowed take your child back to his country where you’d have little to no rights in the realm of child custody is a very nerve-wracking thought. If I was ever to get knocked up by a Saudi I didn’t trust, I’d simply break up with him and never tell him about his child. Well, at least not for 18 years. Perhaps it’s “not right” or “fair”, but if I thought it was best for the child, I’d do it. Just something to think about.
@Strangeone, I really appreciate that you share your views and experiences so candidly. You do have a unique perspective as an American woman and recent student who had been studying abroad so you were a foreigner among other foreigners! (smile)
Thanks Sandy and StrangeOne for your views.
Sandy I understand your skepticism, and perhaps you’re right.
What changes my mind is my experience before. I have been engaged before, to a reserved Muslim man who was also a former client, and we crossed all these barriers. He didn’t view me as a prostitute, and realized that I was a human with the same longings as him. I stoppe working, and we were like any other normal couple. Our families met, and everything was fine (we just had to formulate a story on how we met each other).
My current relation with the Saudi started out sexual, but then once we became a couple (doing other things, which was his idea)..then sex just became one form of our love. Many times I’ve felt that he needs me for sex only, but he says that if I stopped sleeping with him it wouldn’t make a difference. I tried leaving him many times, and he says that if I don’t want to sleep with him he is okay with that as long as he can still be with me. I feel he is one that does not view me as a commodity despite the irony in how we met each other. Like my ex, my Saudi realizes I’m a person, and tries to understand why I got in the industry to begin with (rather than outright judging me for going against social norms).
I don’t know what will happen between us, and I’ve accepted whatever happens between us is fate. I’m at the point where I can leave him (which I’ve tried too), but since he insists on being together I just tread along…(but for how long, I’m not sure). He still pays me, which is a bit awkward, but for me it justifies (or attempts to) being with him with the chance we can’t get married.
It sounds naive, and perhaps selfish, but I feel if I fall pregnant, he will take care of me/us (even if we cannot be married).
@escortdiary,
As one who married into a Saudi family and as a mom and grandmother, please think through very carefully all the implications of bringing a child into a bi-cultural relationship and especially if it were one without the benefit of marriage. A man can change immediately when a child and especially one of his own blood is brought into the equation. His family may only view a child as his child without ever acknowledging you and life could become too complicated and difficult.
I can not imagine a responsible and respectable Saudi man being so nonchalant on the topic of pregnancy. It does not sound right at all.
There are many kinds of love including addictive love. You may know that the relationship does not have a rosy future but rather than risk change and heartache now feel that you must accept what is available.
My words are written in concern and compassion. They are not meant to be judgemental.
@AB,
If it’ll help someone else, I’m more than willing to share my experiences. All this reminiscing though is really giving me a chance to reminisce about my relationship with the first Saudi. I am really missing him today, but life goes on. (teary-eyed smile) Although occasionally I may really miss him, I am content with our break-up. As much as we may have cared for each other, it just wasn’t working out for a myriad of reasons. Life may not always be fair, but at least it’s an adventure!
@escortdiary,
It sounds like he cares for you, just be careful. Please make sure you are thinking clearly and being reasonable about everything. Would you really be willing to give up your occupation for him? Where do you expect to live? How will he expect you to change for him once he begins to consider you as his wife? How do you feel about it? What will you tell your families? These are the kinds of things you’d have to talk over with him; discussing them with anyone else isn’t really going to accomplish anything. That said, I wish you the best in life.
‘Life may not always be fair, but at least it’s an adventure!’
I know exactly what you mean. I’ve been there and it does hurt but I think well worth it. Just be careful with your future adventures
Especially that crazy talk about having kids! Haven’t you learned ANYthing from what I’ve said about those creatures??!! Those cute little darlings DO turn into teenagers one day, you know.
@Lynn,
“Just be careful with your future adventures Especially that crazy talk about having kids! Haven’t you learned ANYthing from what I’ve said about those creatures??!! Those cute little darlings DO turn into teenagers one day, you know.”
LOL. Very true!!! Thanks for the kind words of wisdom.
Parenting is not something I’d consider easy, but well worth the experience. I’m planning to wait until I’m a bit more financially stable and have experienced a little more of the world on my own before I have a child.
@escortdiary,
If he is still paying you I can’t see how this is serious. I read some of your blog- it sounds like some fantasy of his to see you with bigger boobs that are dripping milk. Pregnancy is about alot more than that- It also sounds like you are fantasising about someone else- so this is really not sounding like a relationship headed for marriage. In fact I would say, in general, for a prostitute to be looking for a husband through work is not likely. Even less likely with a wealthy Saudi client who knows you’ve had/have many other Saudi clients.
Saudi men desert pregnant women a lot. The gov’t is now trying to find these children and give them their citizenship. If these children make it to Saudi there is no reason to let the mothers come- nor is there any reason not to kick the mothers out without their child if that is what suits the Saudi family. You are playing with fire and it is not just about you- the primary victim with be your child. Please start being responsible. Love your CHILD enough to be responsible if you can’t love yourself enough. Give him his milk-dripping boob fantasy AFTER you are married.
I don’t believe escortdiary is real. There is a limit to naiveté and considering she has been working as a prostitute for some time we surely can’t possibly consider her an ingenue.
Maybe she’s hoping to catch new clients by showing off her pliability here.
@Strange One I see nothing to indicate he cares about her. As for her profession, it’s not even legal in most of the US. If they move to Saudi it carries the death penalty so I wouldn’t recommend continuing. Especially if one also has children.
@Escort Diary,
I don’t mean to be mean. Personally I don’t care what goes on between consenting adults. But he is living some great romantic, unrealistic fantasy life and relationship that bears little resemblance to what his real life will be like. He has the money to create this – and to make his life wonderful and fun while he spends time here. He hasn’t done anything that indicates any kind of relationship commitment. Yes, he has a business commitment with you. That is very different. If you get pregnant he may, or may not chose to create a business commitment regarding that as well. But I wouldn’t count on it. I wouldn’t even tell you what to do- but it really distresses me that you are risking preganancy in this situation. A child deserves so much more. Emotionally stable and committed parents. Responsible parents. Raising kids is not an easy thing.
Strange One, in my country many women choose to be single mothers. The deliberately choose have a baby without a man. They want a baby but not a man. But a lot of those women do plan ahead.
I am not prejudiced about sex-workers, in my country it is allowed and generally considered a job, although maybe not a very desirable job.
If escortdiary is not making this up, which I consider unlikely, then she is extraordinarily irresponsible towards her child. She has no future plans lined up, she has not a rosy future anyway if she continues her current occupation. She might be a well paid high end prostitute now, but that won;t last beyond a few years, when she either has to start from scratch in a new profession, with the stigma of being a prostitute won;t be easy in America, or she will slowly sink down the prostitution line until she ends up as a low-paid streetwalker.
And how is she going to provide for her child then? What future and prospects will that child have?
I am not flaunting my lifestyle here, as there is nothing to flaunt. If anything, I would like to get out of this work, but what many people don’t realize is that it is an addiction. I am trying to educate myself so I can get away from the industry. I don’t embrace all the choices I’ve made, but rather than demonize women for doing this job I want to understand it and how a society can lead some women down this path.
I am also not looking for a husband in my clients, but fate has it that I’ve come across clients who want a relationship. I am human, so I have emotions…which leads sometimes to love.
My blog is not made up, and it’s meant to be what it is. It may seem naive, but that may be due to the fact I’m 25. I am gearing it towards other women in the industry, who are trying to relate in a sea of people who act just as some have acted in this thread: intolerant. But I do not blame women with those opinions, because it’s expected in a society that marginalizes people for their failures to conform. I guess it’s one of those hidden realities that nobody wants to acknowledge. Perhaps I made a bad choice for commenting on here in hopes to relate to women who are conflicted with their Saudi.
Aafke-Art, I respect your comments, but your attitude seems that people who make “wrong” choices do not deserve the rights of those who do “good.” I do have a plan for myself, which is why I’m studying. But even if I didn’t, is right to just let me sink down and end up as a low-paid streetwalker as you claim? It seems that would also justify saying that being a prostitute means I don’t have the right to love or be loved, right?
Anyway, I suppose it’s my place to leave here now, as this has gotten off topic.
Best wishes
@escortdiary,
This is not about your right to be loved. And no one has demonized you. I am assessing the likelihood that this relationship with your Saudi is going anywhere- which is, I thought, what you asked about. Apparently you don’t like what you are hearing. That doesn’t make you a victim on this blog. And if you are as unsettled as YOU claim to be- my only judgement is you have no right to recklessly “see what happens” with regard to pregnancy. So sue me. Honestly- he sounds like a nightmare and poor marriage material. I get this impression from reading what YOU have written about him. It seems like every other one of your posts (on your blog) you know it too. Be nicer to yourself. Have children when you’re ready. I can tell you from years of observation- having a child NEVER helps an uncertain, unstable, stressful situation. It makes it worse.
It may be an addiction- so get help. Educating yourself will not cure your addiction. Having a baby will not cure your addiction. You have to address the addiction. If you’re in school they probably have a counseling center. Maybe they can help you. I say this because YOU indicated you’d like out. Not because I am demonizing you. Really do want you want. But you don’t sound that happy- and it doesn’t seem to be getting you what you want.
Thanks Sandy…I appreciate and respect your thoughts.
escortdiary – Just acknowledging that you have an addiction is HUGE and a step forward. Now is the time to act with a plan. Even if your plan is small baby steps, do what it takes. There are so many options and opportunities to have a different kind of life. I do not know what are in which you are located but there are always organizations which provide assistance, counseling and lead to programs where you gain new confidence in yourself and ready to make a change to new opportunities. Your outlook and perspective on yourself will improve and you will find the man with whom you are ready to make a lifetime comittment without any doubts or fears.
It takes a brave person to share the deepest thoughts and conflicts you have shared.
@American Bedu
Thank you kindly
I would like to say “Thank you ” for this web site and all the good information you provide. I wish it was available for me before I married my Saudi husband. I do not consider myself stupid or naive, but I believed my husband when he gave reasons to keep our marriage secret / and why I could not meet his parents. I met him while I was working as a nurse in Riyadh, I believed him – why shouldn’t I believe him? It has been about 15 years since he left me – and the pain hurts as if it happened yesterday! Please keep informing others so that God willing nobody else will feel the pain I do daily! For everything you said – to watch out for – occurred to me . I am sure there are exceptions, but that Saudi would be a rare jewell! I just wish I had known these things before, my life would have been totally different. But after reading your articles, a lot of things make sense, but too late to help me. Maybe they can prevent some other young lady from making the same mistakes!
[...] hear often from young women around the world who believe that the Saudi whom they met is the love of their lives. These women share how he makes them feel emotions they have never felt before. He understands [...]
I’m a Saudi girl here in the USA. Bottom line if he tells his family and propose you he is Serious. Plus if he did not sleep with you before marry you he really loves you and want you a wife.
Thank you Neno, It’s always best to hear it from those who are really in the know.
@Escortdiary:
No one denies that prostitutes are of course people and shouldn’t be judged only on their choice of work but the reality is most of the time an unfortunately they are judged. The fact that your saudi acknowledges that fact does not mean he accepts it for himself. I think you know the answers within yourself you seem to be doubting many things and also questioning why he would still be paying you if he was serious which is a big ?. I really hope that one day instead of needing a man to tell you that you are a worthy besides being an escort; that you believe it for yourself.
it seems that you are trying to justify why you do what you do, and you don’t need to as its between you and your creator (thats if you believe in God or whatever), no one needs to approve of it if thats what you want to do but if you don’t, like you said then definately begin the steps out.
I wouldn’t advise being in a relationship with a client as it may cause many problems down the track especially from the Saudi side, he may resent you for your past, and not be able to get over the fact that you had this lifestyle. Or even for yourself you may not trust him in the future knowing that he used your services and could always do it again with another escort.
I hope i didn’t offend you in any way, just giving you some small advice.
Hope the best for the future in what ever you choose to do.
An advise from a Saudi girl who witnessed many Saudi Marriages . Saudi Men are messed up if you fall in love with a guy who is Saudi and you are foreigner then remember to things : he is either really different and you should keep him cause he love you , or he is screwing with you until he gets back to his family then he will marry his cousin because his parents said so and he didn’t have the guts to tell them that he is already married . Don’t fall into that trap !
[...] have written multiple posts in the past about Saudi students who are studying abroad on a scholarship. I feel compelled to address this topic again due to the [...]
Hi, Salam everyone!
Loved reading the topic and all the comments !! I dont live in the US but in the UK where many saudi student are too (scholarship, work…)
I am myself with a saudi but it’s a new relationship he fail in love with me months before we started to date! now we are getting closer and are together.
I am an arab girl and he told me about being with me forever and that he knows he loves me for real and will never let me down and I will understand this in few years as I told him about the fact he is saudi… But he didn’t talk about marriage yet we only together since a month…
After reading your topic I am so confused !! and I just want to ovoid him before I get hurt or anything (no sex between us btw and I will never sleep with him before as I am muslim)
I think all saudis are different but it’s hard to make the difference and also the fact it’s can be complicated fr them to marry a foreigner arab or not may be such a long procedure !! So even if he loves you it can demotivate any guy on this world saudi or not!!
Im so afraid to loose my time with him and at the end he get back to his country and me staying here as an idiot!!
Good luck to you all girls and thank you again american bdu for the topic and the blog
I think you guys should totally leave the SAUDI man by himself..move on
Why can’t they marry non-Arabs? sounds racist to me.
hey this article is soo mean to the saudi man,, there are bad and good people everywhere even the American boys they left their children behind, and not asking about them, there are good saudi man and bad,
I want to talk about the saudi girls if you have chance just go to Washington, Dc and see all the nightclubs you’ll find many saudi girls on there and some of them have relationship with a rich American boy
they likes money more then anything, believe me i met some of them, and i knew them very well, even the saudi women can’t marry an American guy,
just look around you’ll find the good and bad people,
Where can one find information on how to apply for marriage in Saudi Arabia? I am a female from the United States.
Hi,
Well if you are marrying a Saudi then he should take care of that by going the ministry of foreign affairs who will direct him from there.
well I am in love with a saudi and he has let me meet all of his sisters and his mother I have talked with and his dad and his brothers I have talked with his whole family. does anyone think he will marry me?
I hope he does because he is my one true love.
Maybe someone can help me out with my Saudi questions? I’m an American woman in college and I think I have an interesting story I would like some perspective to…
DeerB – post your questions, people will reply inshallah.
I’m an American girl who is considering marriage with a Saudi – I very much appreciate all of the dialogue here.
I am from Saudi Arabia and I really do not understand
you American hate Arabs and occupy their land and kill them in Iraq ..
And justify your crimes ..
Then you would expect that the relationship with the Arabs will be normal …
Well, let me ask you a question …
If I married an American woman ..and then U.S. attack on the country of Saudi Arabia
Is my American wife will stand with me against the U.S.???
it She going to help me to raise my children on the Arab and Islamic traditions ..
I think that the marriage of American women is a bad idea
Hi i am a western woman living in saudi arabia, and i know how charming the saudi men can be.
my friend dated a saudi guy for 6 months who persued her day and night until she gave in to him and went on a date.
After a couple of months they were inseparable and seeing each other regualrly.
The relationship became passionate and intense very quickly, she fell in love with him, he saw a vunerabilty in her and played on it.
After months of indulging in a risky and illegal relationship with the saudi guy, she couldnt be without him.
Then one day out of the blue he announced he was getting married to a girl he didnt even know.
My friend was heart broken she invested so much of her heart and time into him, and now he will not even acknowledge her in the corridor.
Now he will live a marriage of lies, because he knows this is not the woman he TRUELY loves.
On the basis that my friend is western, and not muslim and this kind of relationship is forbidden and could of never truely progressed to anything serious, he knew this she didnt.
My advice to western women, stick with what you know you are only setting your heart up to be broken.
In the light of day these men are not emotionally available to western women.
@ western girl,
but life must go on..
i felt sad for you friend and i can relate with her traumatic lovelife..