In order to try and understand Saudi Arabia and its practices, customs, traditions and cultures, one must expose themselves to all facets of the Kingdom. In this exclusive American Bedu interview, Ali Alyami, Executive Director of the Center for Democracy and Human Rights in Saudi Arabia (CDHR) shares his candid views on the Kingdom and the goals and objectives of CDHR.
Thank you very much, Ali, for this opportunity to ask you a bevy of diverse questions. To begin with, can you please introduce yourself to American Bedu readers. Where are you originally from? How did you end up settling in the United States?
Thank you, Carol. I am from Saudi Arabia. I was born and raised in the Najran region, South West Saudi Arabia, but had to migrate to Eastern Saudi Arabia at an early age to look for work and was among the fortunate Saudis who were hired by the Arabian American Oil Company, Aramco, the major employer in Saudi Arabia in the 1940s, 50s and 60s. Like most Saudis at the time, I had very limited education and hardly any exposure to other peoples, their religions and culture. That was an educational experience one has to live it in order to understand how insulated, isolated and backward Saudi Arabia was and in some cases still, especially in the areas of politics, social, religious and sciences.
Like many Saudis (of all ages and regions), I went to Aramco knowledge based schools and learned how to beyond religious, social and cultural boundaries. I was challenged to develop natural potentials mentally, emotionally and physically. I was also challenged to excel and I did. Rewards in Aramco were earned not given as the case in the rest of the country, where nepotism determines one’s fate. Aramco granted me a scholarship to come and study in America and that’s how I ended up here.
You are well-known as one of the strongest advocates for change in Saudi Arabia. Do you believe your desire for change and reform has been influenced by the significant amount of time you had spent in the United States as a student?
Influenced, somewhat; more active and inquisitive, yes (freedom of speech, assemblage and movement). I started to observe and question many things at an early age. For example, I asked as to why my family had to drag me out of bed very early in the morning to pray instead of doing so later on in the day. I did not get any satisfactory answer because there was (is) none. I also resented the fact that there were self-appointed religious men, Makarmah (people of Najran are Ismaelis), that set themselves up as superior humans who must not only be worshipped, but fed by poverty-stricken people in the form of religious extortion: The Zakat system.
I saw the Saudi government, just like the Makarmah, wrest large portions of poor people’s meager agricultural crop and livestock possessions as religious tax, Zakat, without providing any services.
As I was growing up, women and men worked, set, ate and traveled together. There were no veils let alone the disfiguring abayas. Women never covered their hair before they got married and even after that, they did not use heavy-duty black garment. This is not only in the Najran region, but all of the Southern, Western and Eastern regions of the vast desolate land, known now as Saudi Arabia.
Things keep getting aggressively worst. For example, prayers were voluntary, but as the Saudi-Wahhabi regime expanded their choking grip over people’s lives, worship became compulsory. These are some of the reasons that impelled me into believing that there must be better ways to govern. Coming to America amplified my belief in promoting democratic (humane) reform in my motherland.
What do you see as the key areas in which reforms are most needed and why?
First and foremost, total transformation of the Saudi educational and religious institutions. All schools’ (from preschool through university) books and curriculum must be determined by non-sectarian women and men teachers and administrators who represent all sects and ethnic groups in the country. Religious classes must be limited to those interested in that subject. Religious courses can be part of school curriculum as selective, not as the core of what most Saudi schools teach now.
It is estimated that only 8% of Saudi school courses are dedicated to sciences. No wonder the country is way behind in sciences and technology. Religious schools’ curriculum should include classes of all brands and sects of Islam as well as non-Muslim beliefs and philosophies. They too should be managed by non-sectarian administrators and should not be supported by the state and public money.
Scientifically, socially, politically and even economically, Saudi Arabia is among the most backward countries. This due to poor educational system and the use of theocratic religious establishment whose assigned job is to make sure Saudis never develop mentally or physically. In reality Saudi educational and religious institutions spend more time indoctrinating people than teaching them to move forward.
How has your life changed as a result of your proactive efforts and endeavors to create change and reforms in Saudi Arabia?
I started this line of work (in one form or another) at an early age; consequently, my activities, attitude, behavior, relationships and daily discourse are shaped by what I chose to do: Promote system of governance where people are the authors of their destiny as opposed to being treated as perpetual minors and subservient to those who are supposed to be servants to the people over whom they preside.
When was CDHR established and what is its mission?
CDHR was almost seven years ago. Its mission is to provide accurate information and analysis to decision makers, think tanks, learning institutions, media, and NGOs here and globally. More importantly, to engage the people of my motherland in a constructive, albeit challenging and thought provoking dialogue when and wherever possible.
Due to its centrality to Islam and possession of large quantities of oil and money, the Saudi regime (the ruling family) plays major roles in Muslims and non-Muslims lives. Yet, the country is ruled by autocratic and theocratic men and institutions that are destabilizing the country in every imaginable way.
They segregate gender, incite people against each other and the rest of the world, ignoring the needs of young men and women (60 to 70% of Saudi population is speculated to be below 25). Unemployment is said to be hovering around 80% among women and 40% among men. Ironically, this is a country that imports 10 million migrant workers to keep the country afloat. These are the issues, CDHR was established to highlight.
How is CDHR instituting change in Saudi Arabia?
I am not sure about instituting. We are hoping that by raising issues of interest to Saudis and the international community, the men in power will rethink their ways of governing and listen to their people screams for change; respect human rights and start a transition where people can own their country instead of being owned by the ruling families that name it and its proud people after themselves, Saud Arabia, the Saudi people.
How can CDHR help those Saudis in Saudi Arabia who are discriminated against or abused?
By making highlighting their grievances and rally support for them among officials, NGOs media outlets, conferences and appealing to the conscience of the international community who has a lot to gain by a democratic Saudi Arabia.
What do you see as the strongest impediment against change and reforms in Saudi Arabia? Why?
The ruling elites. They see empowerment of the people as a threat to their total control of the country, its wealth and every aspect of people’s lives and livelihood. The properly biggest impediment is the ongoing palace fights over whose views and wishes should prevail and how to get a bigger share of the loot. This practice is not only impeding progress and political sharing, but will push the country over the steep cliff on due time.
CDHR supports religious freedom. How do you promote religious freedom then in Saudi Arabia where the only religion recognized and able to be legally practiced in the Kingdom is Islam?
This must change for the benefits of the Saudi people, global peace and security of the country. Saudis are only identified by religion because they have nothing else to identify with other than the name of the family that tyrannically rules them. Saudis have been indoctrinated into believing that their culture and religion are supreme and superior. This erroneous information, narrow the Saudis’ perception of themselves and of the international community. Non-Muslims should be able to build worship sanctuaries in Saudi Arabia and practice their beliefs freely, just as Muslims could do so in any country on this planet. Religious freedom in Saudi Arabia will help the indigenous people to relate to other human beings better regardless of their beliefs and rituals.
Why do you think expatriates in the Kingdom are prohibited from openly practicing their chosen faiths in Saudi Arabia?
For the same reasons above. More important, the Saudi theocrats and their handlers fear the values other religion offers especially women’s rights, tolerance of the “Other”, and the possibility of Saudis embracing other religions. Islam has never been more scrutinized, criticized and abandoned by many of its adherents than now. This is due to exposure of how Islam has been used a tool to justify looting, control, abuses, terrorism and oppression, especially of women and religious minorities.
In regards to women’s rights, if CDHR could bring about change in one aspect of the lives of women in Saudi Arabia, what would it be and why?
No one aspect of Saudi women’s lives can be improved independently for other ingredients. Freedom of mobility, economic independence, control over their lives and the wellbeing of their children, especially in the educational arena. Given the sad state of affairs in Arab and Muslim societies, the only hope for Saudi Arabia and the Muslim World is empower women. Saudi women are intelligent, sophisticated, extraordinarily resilient and hard working people.
Saudi Arabia is the only country on earth that prevents half of its society, women, from contributing to the building of their country. This tragedy has nothing to do with religion or tradition, it’s political and economic. Full employment, an end to the unnatural and repulsive gender segregation and advanced education are easy steps to be taken if the men in power want it.
What do you see as the shortfalls in Saudi Arabia’s educational system and why?
It’s a religious, sect, based system. Knowledge based educational system produce critical thinkers, scientists, independent and adventurous minded people. These kinds of people are hard to control, consequently, threat to the pre-modern intuitions and form of ruling
Is the mission and goals of CDHR seen as a threat to the Saudi Royal family?
It should not because we are not advocating overthrow of the regime, dividing the country or encourage external invasion to impose reforms. However, given the system paranoia (for good reason), its instability, fear of exposure, palace fights, regional shifting powers and alliances, the regime sees us as a threat even though it could benefit from what we are promoting.
Where do you hope to see CDHR in five years?
Open, expands its beneficial and noble work. CDHR does great work for all Saudis, expatriates, the US and the international community. It deserves support from visionary and people who understand the Saudi-Wahhabi lethal doctrine and its support for extremists (at home and worldwide), anti no-Muslims, anti democracy, anti women and anti religious tolerance.
What additional resources, information or services can CDHR provide?
Accurate and cogent analysis of Saudi, society, government’s domestic and foreign polices and their intend objectives and impact on humanity.
How can anyone contact CDHR?
202.558.5552
202.413.0084 Ali
Are there any additional comments you’d like to add?
This country, Saudi Arabia and the world are facing a religious ideology that will end in East-West confrontation unless enough visionary and good people start rethinking their ambivalence and start educating the public and putting pressure on their representatives to stand up against those who threaten our democracy and its empowering values. This is a conflict of ideas: Religious totalitarianism verse freedom of choice and the rule of law. These are documented facts.
Thanks, Ali, for your time and allowing me to ask you these diverse questions about yourself and CDHR.
You are most welcome Carol, it’s a pleasure and honor.
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I like the old guy. My thoughts, exactly. I would point out that this problem extends beyong SA, if not to the same degree. Good interview but I won’t hold my breath.
Thank you, Carol.
Wow, you came from totally strange times and place Ali ,I love that about my Saudi Arabia, everyday I learn something I never knew before…I found it weird that you wanted to pray fajr prayer whenever you get up from sleep. And that Makramah I never heard if it it’s a little funny thou. No wonder you feed up with your culture like that, it must suffocating.
I’m all for the king and Saudi Arabia, our country is young and improving, it’s taking it’s course of time, I love it
Thanks Carol and Mr.Ali
I really found this interview very interesting. I was especially interested to note that years ago there was mixing and no compulsory covering of the hair or body and yet it has somehow become absolutely essential and part of the Sunnah. Interesting that years ago it was not…I would then have to wonder if indeed the Qur’an does require it or have Wahabbis placed this restriction on women so profoundly now that it is an indelible part of the religious practice…now they are pushing women worldwide to start adopting the veil and burka as part of the sunnah. Slowly that restriction is starting to seep into the faith.
I think for me, you have highlighted that the suffocating strict practice of the faith prevents the type of developments that can sustain the country after oil stops flowing. Ijtihad is truly dead in Saudi and in much of the Islamic world. I hope for Muslims and the sake of the rest of us you are successful in your endeavors…already we are seeing some cracks in the west due to the demands put on it by these very foreign practices. I do worry where it will all end…I fear the results will not be good for anyone.
Thanks Carol. I salute Mr. Alyami!
Carol and Ali Alyami,
Thanks for the opportunity to meet this person with a great vision.
I agree with his campaign and his thoughts completely.
I also appreciate that he has been absolutely honest about the condition in his native country, without indulging in false defenses.
A few thoughts that came to my mind are –
It’s true that Saudi education needs to be thoroughly modernised from primary level to the University level. It has to move away from religion and be built around modern values of equality of all human beings, social justice and scientific and rational temperament.
As he says, religious education has to be reserved for those who want to become clerics and even the religious education should not be oriented towards the extremist form of Wahhabism. Rather, Islamic education should include an objective, non-judgmental history of Islamic spread in different parts of the world and different forms and schools of Islam that are practised around the world. Emphasis should be on the pluralistic development of Islam rather than on Wahhabism as the only true religion in the world.
If such teachers trained in these thought systems are not there in Saudi Arabia, they should be brought from other countries where such experts are there. these experts can train a couple of generations of students who can then teach the next generations.
The school text books must teach the students to respect all religions and even non-religious ideologies. Besides, a culture of self-criticism should be inculcated amongst the students embedded in the educational model.
A rational, modern education is the base on which the future generation of a society builds, so it is important to see what and how education is imparted – especially in the school level.
Related to this and also to the idea of governance is the fact that the Saudi society has become the way it has become because the ruling powers use the Wahhabi clerics as their legitimising force. Unless the ruling house moves away from the Wahhabi clerical legitimacy, I see very little scope of significant progress in this direction.
I think they have to move away from Wahhabi clerics, curtail their powers completely, ban the religious police, make a written constitution based on modern principles of human rights, social equality and principles of justice and make development their legitimising force.
Also, rather than keeping most of the wealth for themselves, they should spend it on development on impoverished areas away from the major cities and the desert villages.
Perhaps Alyami’s organisation can look into these aspects.
Also, I don’t know if they have the freedom to speak out these things in public space in Saudi Arabia.
Oby,
All religions go through stages of evolution and as times change, people modify their religious practices according to their changing needs.
This is regardless of whatever is written in their sacred scriptures.
Islam has been no exception to this and you can see how it has evolved in different parts of the world in myriads of forms. In India alone there are myriads of versions of Islamic practices.
It was the same with Saudi Arabia, where Islam had been following a natural course of evolution, which was healthy for the country.
It was only when the oil money became so important that the rulers had to control the society so that they could keep most of the wealth for themselves, that they went to the Wahhabi clerics for their controlling mechanism.
Wahhabism’s puritanical ideology that the Quran and the Hadiths should be interpreted in a literal way has created all this problem in Saudi Arabia and is now spilling over to the rest of he world.
So, rather than asking whether it is in Quran, I think it’s high time to ask whether it is relevant today. If other religions can modify themselves according to changing needs of time, I don’t see why Islam shouldn’t have the same scope.
“In reality Saudi educational and religious institutions spend more time indoctrinating people than teaching them to move forward.” Amen!
Thanks, Carol – this man has so much to say that is spot on, and I continue to pray that voices like his will be heard, not only here in Saudi but also outside this place.
As he noted in the interview, the world is heading for a very dark place unless ” enough visionary and good people start rethinking their ambivalence and start educating the public and putting pressure on their representatives to stand up against those who threaten our democracy and its empowering values.”
Thanks again for sharing this wise man with the rest of us.
SGIME
Very impressive interview.
I want it to be longer!
And it is nice to have it black on white (again) by somebody who should know, that things were very different in KSA not so long ago: no segregation, no abaya’s and no veils!
I don’t believe the endless comments:
”Saudi Arabia is a young country”
”Everything has to go in baby steps”
”Change is slow but things are getting better”
Saudi Arabia has a lot of money, there’s lots better technologies around as 100 years ago, things move 100 times faster nowadays than they did 100 years ago, so ”age” isn’t an issue, other countries in the gulf, in the same position, do not have the issues Saudi Arabia has.
There’s something else at work here.
It seems to me that ”baby steps” are only deemed necessary when improvements in education, women’s rights, human rights, etc. are being talked of. As soon as the change is going backwards in education, women’s rights, etc. Change seems to be immediate and complete, giant steps.
From what I have read change in Saudi Arabia is not really for the better but for the worse over the last 5 decades. The only change I can see from my point of view which is positive is the slight opening of the Saudi media. Everything else seems to be changing for the worse.
Good interview. I was in contact with the organisation some time back. With Micha, one of the research fellows there. At that time it was interesting to know that people were reading my blog.
I actually had a pamphlet of theirs, in English, translated into Arabic. I have copies of this Arabic pamphlet that I hand out and put on cars from time to time.
The interview was great, although I could have done without the mandatory 10,000 word screed from Daisy as a follow up.
I remember blogging about the group and posting some of the links and was met with a barrage of “they have an ulterior motive” and the most daming “you know they are Shi’a right”?
Keep up the good work dear Sir!
another idiot who thinks he’s progressive when all his ignorance does is prove that he’s just a tool
@Aafke…
“It seems to me that ”baby steps” are only deemed necessary when improvements in education, women’s rights, human rights, etc. are being talked of. As soon as the change is going backwards in education, women’s rights, etc. Change seems to be immediate and complete, giant steps.”
I hadn’t thought of it like that but I think you have a very good point. It does seem that way doesn’t it?
“I remember blogging about the group and posting some of the links and was met with a barrage of “they have an ulterior motive” and the most daming “you know they are Shi’a right”?”
OK…dumb question…is he a Shi’a?…I didn’t see that anywhere in the post. Shi’a or not I think his vision can be helpful to all regardless of their affiliation.
@Daisy…
“All religions go through stages of evolution and as times change, people modify their religious practices according to their changing needs.”
I do agree with you on that but as you know the Qur’an has been interpreted for that type of covering and people look to the Qur’an to see how they should live their lives. Obviously if it wasn’t needed or practiced 30+ years ago something has changed…NOT the words of the Qur’an but rather the interpretation of those words. People now feel that due to that interpretation the Qur’an says that they should cover so profoundly. The majority of people in KSA who are so young and many throughout the world know only that more restrictive interpretation as the only one they grew up with. They don’t realize the Qur’an does not say that, but a bunch of clerics who want to maintain control have interpreted it that way. I do think that Islam can modify itself and should for the realities of the changing world. And that is the point I was trying to make. Islam is flexible enough…Mr. Alyami has shown that even KSA had a reasonable and more equitable practice years ago. It isn’t the Qur’an IMO that stifles the people. It is the clergy who interpret it that way to maintain control and people who are afraid to question “the word of God”. The clergy weild far too much power. If tomorrow they started interpreting it differently, people would start slowly changing their practice. Qur’an hasn’t changed…interpretation has and it can again.
I had a pt in my chair one day that told me that she wore mini skirts here in Riyadh in the 1960′s ( when it was fashionable) but did not believe her due to the restrictions now. It was too great a leap for me at the time. Now I believe. (she is a Saudi)
@Oby,
I knew he was a Shi’a but I had to go look for refernces. Ali is a common Shi’a name, but there are Sunnis with the name as well.
I came up with a cached version of a Weekly Standard article from 2004. It states he is an Ismaili Shi’a.
I dont think it matters and shouldn’t take away from the good work he is doing. It does help give some background as Shi’a are a persecuted minority in Saudi. This fact will also be used by many supporters of Saudi and other extremists elements to discount him and his work.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:RFA1edV6Xp0J:97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx%3FARTID%3D10560+%22Ali+Alyami%22+shia&hl=en&gl=us&strip=1
Aafke,
I feel those “baby steps” and “need time” type of arguments are just excuses for not bringing enough change faster – perhaps invented by the KSA and endorsed by their supporters in the West so that the rulers can remain in power controlling much of the wealth without having to be answerable to their people and to the international community at large.
Oby,
I understand what you’re saying. It’s true Quran is supposed to be a code of conduct but its verses are open to multiple interpretations in many places and the sane Muslims don’t follow all the draconian prescriptions of Hadiths such as stoning etc. They follow only what suits the age and society they are living in.
That’s how so many different kinds of Islamic practices have emerged in the world. Muslims around the world just interpret these verses according to their times and society. And that is the way to do it, rather than having a single extremist interpretation which is supposed to be the only true interpretation and everyone has to follow it. Like the literature of any religion, Quran and Hadiths too are open to multiple interpretations.
One could question if the US and other Western countries impacted on why many of today’s Saudi youth are more conservative in their beliefs. There was a hiatus of about 8 years when Saudis youth were not coming to the US or other Western countries for education in the aftermath of 9/11. I’m not saying no Saudi youth were in the US but that the numbers decreased significantly. Now more and more students are again receiving scholarships and traveling out of the Kingdom for advanced education.
I have heard many Saudi senior citizens and expats who have been in the Kingdom since the 1960′s, 1970′s share their experiences of the dramatic changes they have witnessed in culture and customs based on religion. One friend of mine, a Saudi male in his early 40′s remembers when people sat in chairs outside of the gates of their villas and mingled (uncovered) with neighbors. This was also at the time when there was more mixing between Saudis and expats and movies were viewed outside on big screens so everyone could share and enjoy.
@Carol…
Sounds so nice and wholesome and healthy doesn’t it? I would love to see it swing back to that way because I don’t think the ultra restrictive practices now are emotionally healthy for the people.
@Abu Sinan…
Thanks for the link!
Carol “One could question if the US and other Western countries impacted on why many of today’s Saudi youth are more conservative in their beliefs. There was a hiatus of about 8 years when Saudis youth were not coming to the US or other Western countries for education in the aftermath of 9/11.”
I’m not sure how accurate that is. There were fewer to the US -definately. The UK really stepped up their outreach here trying to increase the Saudi students there. Other European countries as well. I also know people who went to Australia. More then ever went to places like Malaysia as well- which although not “west” is still very different than Saudi.
Sandy is right. I was at the Saudi Embassy and Saudi Cultural Mission here is DC at various times from 2004 to today and there were always a lot of students. The Watergate, where the Cultural Mission is, always sounds like a market in Riyadh or something.
this guy is a stooge for washington, and has an axe to grind. his only goal is to secularize Saudi Arabia in order to remove all trace of religion. There are a lot of saudi reformers that I support, but it’s certainly not this fool.
He couldnt understand why he had to get up so early to pray? BECAUSE IT IS MANDATORY FOR EVERY MUSLIM! If you wernt a Muslim, perhaps you should have told your parents that, lol.
Islam is not just a religion but a way of life, as is Democracy, a way of life, I dont think we will ever see those two joined, who knows.
Sorry to say but most Muslims do NOT consider Ismiala Shia as Muslims ( not my opinion, but the opinion of most Muslims).
I can understand his loathe for Saudi, but find the no hijab thing a little fishy, perhaps in his Ismaili group, again I dont know.
ABU SINAN u r so funny and crazy, but really does seem like Daisy has ALOT of spare time! LOL
Muslims are always saying “Islam is a way of life, not a religion” when they want to control others. Democracy is a more “Islamic” way of life than what happens in Saudi. In Saudi there is “complusion” in everything. I think as the world progresses in knowledge it’s become clear that theocracy doesn’t work as well as democracy. And hopefully tomorrow’s democracies with outshine today’s.
Most Muslims spend too much time worrying about who are “real” Muslims. What matters is what Allah thinks- not other Muslims. And also there are many Muslms- though not a majority that do not consider the hijab dress code as practiced today as required.
Well, as the hijab is not mentioned in the Quran as covering for womens hair the question arises if this excessive neurotic covering women are pressed into nowadays is necessary anyway. According to the Quran you are modestly dressed of you cover your breasts and down to your knees, anything else is not required.
Besides, the modern hijab is not the sixth pillar of Islam. So whats so fishy?
Sandy, yes, isn’t niyyah the most important?
I think when people look so much to their neighbours, and get so obsessed with outward details, they lose complete sight of the real important issues, of what their inner selves, and in the end live an artificial, hypocritical, meaningless life.
I wonder…if all this obsession on who is a better Muslim or in the right sect or outward details as Aafke mentioned is the Islamic version of “keeping up with the Joneses”.
@ Jessica: It is not up to anyone to say who is a Muslim and who is not. It is between them and Allaah t’ala. The Prophet (saw) said that when someone calls his brother a kaffir, one of them is indeed a kaffir.
Interesting interview Carol, I met Dr. Ali before and we talked at length about CDHR and other issues related to the Saudi regimen, my main concern is that the institute along with its efforts are not directed toward the people of Saudi Arabia mainly, rather its directed toward the International community, it’s viewed as foreign by Saudis and doesn’t reach far enough to empower them as target audience, yet, it’s a good step on the long way…
I was thinking (a very rare thing for me, obviously), but the
Center for Democracy and Human Rights in Saudi Arabia (CDHR) is NOT in Saudi Arabia. It is in Washington DC. Well, duhhh. That makes it easy. Anybody can take a stand against Saudi stupidity and evil if they don’t live there. I move the old guy down about two pegs.
Now if you want courage . I suggest you look at this young woman: Shiva Nazar Ahari. There is concern that she, a jailed human rights activist, blogger, and editor of the Committee of Human Rights Reporters website in Iran, may be charged with moharbeh (waging war against God/enmity against God) in an upcoming trial. In Iran, this can carry a death sentence.
Here is a link:
http://globalvoicesonline.org/2010/08/25/iran-blogger-may-face-charge-of-waging-war-against-god/
I kinda like the idea of waging war on god. I also wonder how people cannot but wonder why a god, any god, needs help to punish a 130 pound woman. Do the authorities in Iran have any idea how stupid this is? This means that they don’t believe that their god is able, on his own, to face a small girl.
looking at a place as the source of all evils is not the answer; even when the sparkling words of democracy and human rights are used. If I do not know Saudi Arabia, reading this interview would lead me to think that it is the worst country in the Milky Way; and for Dr. Ali surprise, some people think that it is not!
Some of what he presented have merits and the country, as a still growing one, has a lot to do to develop and shape a personality of its own. But blaming everything on the ruling family, as most people usually do, is a weak point in any argument. The body of the government is not all about the royal family, may be most of it is ran by normal people like me and you.
Moreover, putting everything on the shoulders of the government is a way to evade responsibilities of our own; the individuals, the proud Saudis!!
I am very grateful to you all for your honest, enlightening, and constructive feedback, suggestions, and guidance.
Religions are beliefs. They were not created to be used as tools of oppression, discriminations, expropriation, segregation and divide and conquer. They must be left for the individuals to decide for themselves freely and free from any external coercions as the case in the motherland. True beliefs are voluntary and compulsory.
I totally agree that the people of the motherland have a huge responsibility to build and determine their influential country’s fate; and that they must do if they want to save their country from internal and external looming threats. My question is how can they do that if they are totally controlled by two theocratic and autocratic families. All decisions are made by a few men from one family and coercively enforced by a ferocious group from another family.
Enduring, true and harmonizing progress can only be made when powers emanate from the people, men and women. The people, especially women, of the motherland are among the most resilient people on this planet. Climatically, the land is one of the most inhospitable places to live. Add to that political, social and religious strangulation.
Those who raised questions about my religious affiliations, or lack of, can rest assured that my dedication to promoting respect for the dignity of the individual emanate from philosophical convictions and nothing else.
I am grateful to Ms. Carol Fleming for facilitating this most gratifying dialogue. Ali
Islam is a way of life and I do not say that to “control” others, I guess I should have added not as in the way it is practiced in Saudi.
In fact we have no Islamic state in the world.
I only said most Muslims dont consider Ismiali Shia Muslims at all, I also said it wasnt my opinion as I know nothing of them.But I think Mr. Ali cleared it up that he isnt into Islam.
I did have a girlfriend who was Ismiali who became sunni and she said their practices are pure shirk. I dont remember which practices those were.
And yes certainly Allah is the judge of everyone, I didnt mean to sound critical, I apoligize.
By the same token, I think it is fair to say that Christians consider Christianity a way of life too.
Followers of every religion consider their religion a way of life. In those long ago times that’s what they were meant for, to give some kind of order and normalcy in an unruly world.
The more i read diff blogs, one thing is very simple. your religion is your way of life, not any better or any worse than any other religion, the path you take towards god can be way different than the one i take so why cannot we live in acceptance of that..
I’m really sick and tired of hearing this “my god id better than your ” & ” only the followers of my religion will go to heaven” crap.. really!!! how do you know .. did someone come from heaven and tell you.. personally.
this shia/sunni fights are getting really old.. really people both ways are god are fine.. how hard is that to understand…
Certainly Christians see their religion as a way of life, I found that more in ths USA than in the Arab countries (Syria, Lebanon, Jordan) Balad as Sham.
The thing about Christians in the USA that I love is how respectful and kind they are , love, love, love. But It isnt that in the Middle East due to wars no doubt, nor is it in the former USSR where my family comes from.
I have found Indian Christians of also be some of the kindest most wonderful people.
religion does not make anyonekind or unkind, people are just that way – some are kind some not so much. we just hide behind religions to justify our actions..
I’m in agreement with many of your comments Radha.
Me too!
I can’t wait to find out what happens after I die!
I am just so sorry that I don’t think I will be able to put up a blog post and tell everybody where they go wrong….
Actually, Radha, I see that religions do provide a lot of justification for evil deeds.
Or provide a religious justification for just simply oppressing others, or cut pieces of little babies, or other weird and/or bad practices people would probably not do if it wasn’t because some religion tells them that some god wants them to do so.
@Aafke,
“With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil—that takes religion. ” Steven Weinberg
@Saad,
I think Dr. Alyami is right for blaming much of the problems of Saudi on the royal family. They have empowered the most backwards people in society and halted the normal progress of the country and social behavior through that action. Look at the education system as an example for this. They have left the country without any laws to guide its development. We are talking over 80 years here, so blaming this on the age of the country is not valid. They have also contributed greatly to the to the corruption of the system all at levels. When the leaders participate in corrupt practices it just flows down.
The leaders of the country have created an environment where forward thinking and reform minded citizens cannot survive. Social progress is very limited under such conditions and in many respects you can point to certain periods where the country was moving backwards.
I guess whatever I say is wrong………………………………….
So I’ll be gone.
ahh carol,aafke,
yes we are like minded people
now could that be the wisdom of age…. have to omit Ms. Young Aafke out of that 
after seeing the ravages of diseases and suffering, i wonder , DON’T WE HAVE ENOUGH ILLNESS NATURALLY TO TORMENT EVERY FAMILY, oh no we’re not satisfied with this much suffering, need to discriminate, maime and murder and cause more — all inthe name of god. we really are a stupid species
lately i’ve been seeing so many cases of intolerance towards muslims and by muslims.. don’t know why. earlier it looked like all immigrants wanted to assimilate now it looks like everyone wants to stand out.. sigh!!!
and i come across very dumb youngsters, muslim and non, it’s almost like they don’t use their brain to think, just blindly follow.
ok i’m going to stop or i’ll become ot come across as a crancy old woman ..
@Jessica…
come on now. You going to have a bit of a tougher skin. Aafke is a really nice person and MoQ too even if they don’t always agree with each other or sometimes others of us too. That’s the give and take of this blog…kinda like a big noisy family who don’t always agree either.
Your points are valid as much as anyone else’s. Hope to see you back.
oooops forgot to include Radha of course!
I’m the evil one here. And Aafke has been enlisted earlier as happy to be a difficult woman!
Aafke, don’t wait to die so soon, you just celebrated your Birthday.
Imagine getting a post from your ghost describing the 21st century heaven we customised on another post! We can have a Cult of Aafke then.
Radha, I agree with you.
Religion is and has been used as a tool for controlling people throughout the ages in all cultures. Whether it was intended like that is difficult to say.
Oby is one of the most benign ones whom everyone likes.
Daisy….
sorry didn’t include you… Just the last couple who posted…it really encompasses all of us.
Thanks Daisy…
Maybe I am not controversial enough!! That might be fun to let it all hang out! LOL!
I like the concept of a big noisy nosy family which cares!
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Karen and Anarchists Anonymous, toot. toot said: Toot featured: Saudi Arabia: Interview with Ali Alyami http://bit.ly/c415CO [...]
What did I say to Jessica?
Radha –
Lol, don’t feel bad. I’m only 23 (and ironically getting a Masters to teach high school) and I have long thought kids seemed to be getting dumber and dumber. It’s not that they don’t have the potential to be smart and successful, but more like they don’t want to make the effort to access that potential. Another thing is it seems to be “uncool” to be smart or stick out so so many just follow the crowd and try to fit in. They can’t see the world past their own noses (or ipod) and sometimes neither can their parents. Just saying.
Jessica –
Don’t feel bad. A lot of the time people don’t even acknowledge I’ve said anything. It doesn’t matter – I still manage to learn something most of the time just by listening to the arguments
Stick it out, it could be interesting!
and I realize I just said “don’t feel bad” twice to two different people. Way to go with the personalization, love.
I too didn’t understand why Jessica felt bad.
Jessica,
People keep on attacking me all the time, calling me all sorts of names. I don’t give up because of it. I only get tougher.
You should take things in your stride.
Radha and azur Eyes, it can be worse: I was a kid myself and I was fed up with the other kids and their wish for being dumb. You actually got teased for getting good notes or being interested in the classes!
It’s one of my pet peeves.
At art college a lot of students actually seemed proud of being dumb and not even knowing basic Dutch!
As a saddle fitter I kept meeting people (not all of them of course) with horses and no knowledge about horses, about saddles, about the importance of a correct fit, and worst of all, not the slightest inclination to learn.
And regarding me with suspicion while taking for gospel anything a commercial salesman told them.
that rant about kids was bought on because my son said one of his classmates asked him why he didn’t fast ? so when R explained that he followed Hinduism ,apparently a heated arguement ensued about how that is possible and if your dad is muslim you MUSt be muslim ??? huh .. why MUSt you be somehting and how it was wrong etc., and how the rules say that etc., etc., yes i did tell him it was the ranting of an ignorant mind nad he could follow whatever religion he felt gave him peace. but i’m just sying a 19 yr old is not born with such thoughts, either he’s been fed that line, heard it from somewhere. which is ok, every parent tries to raise kids their way, but if you’re almost 20 you MUST have a brain and MUSt utilize it. and you MUST open your ears to someone else’s explanation of why they choose a particular path an dnot just condemn…
which in my mind is a goo dthing…focus on EDUCATIOn.. not women muslim or otherwise…
on a lighter vein apparently that kid told my son he’s not going to get any muslim woman with his hindu following
I think there should be mor einter-religious marriages for tolerance to emerge.. you have to accept the other religion if your spouse belongs to it right ..oh well
but i’m amazed y the closed mind of kids. i can understand a staid 40 yr old, but a 19yr old passing judgements on another 19yr old.. ahhh we have a long way to go.
Shows what kind of ideas they are brought up on.
Forget the religion – why do they think the father’s religion and culture must always take precedence?
Why shouldn’t a person decide for himself/herself what religion to follow, to what degree to follow it, whether to follow it at all or not and so on?
Are these the values of democracy they are being brought up on?
Apart from the atmosphere at home and peer-group influence, what kind of school education do students get in the US, so that at the age of 18-19 they have such retrogressive and ignorant minds?
I’m not basing my opinion only on your case. I have taught undergraduate students from the US universities and have been shocked to see the kind of ignorance they live in at that level.
It reflects poorly on the school education system of the US, which a country like the US should not reflect.
I think these are serious flaws which the US needs to think about seriously.
Yes Radha…you are right that someone must have told that boy…the average 19 year old is going to have NO IDEA that if a person’s father is Muslim then they must be Muslim too. They are way too interested in other things besides religion. If the one who told your boy that is Muslim then he must have learned it from his parents.
All this strict Muslim stuff really reminds me about how the Catholic church used to be in the 40′s and 50′s. They were pretty serious about marrying outside of your own faith…and still lots of religions are like that. Both Christian and non. I think that God gave us brains and the ability to create unimaginable beauty and things that can help mankind. I think he wants us to give him praise and worship but when we get so stuck in dogma that it prevents us from using the brain that we were given then IMHO that is the same thing as wasting the beautiful gift he gave us and it is a form of turning against God. Praise and worship are great, but God wants us all to use the talents he gave us to make a better world. I just can’t imagine he wants us all chained to dogma that suppresses that.
I’m not judging any kid, all i’m saying usually at 19 , religion is not a big deal in your life and even if it is kids are open enough to be accepting.. kids see no religious difference or differences in anything.. they are commonly united again school adn parents
and these kids are especially in a tough fight, MIt is not an easy place to study.. their mind is obsessed with urriculum and what’s left is spent trying to get as muc as fun in their lives …
and you’re right at that age we didn’t know the rules about religion.
daisy – actually the american kids get a pretty decent education compared to the many other places inthe world. the focus is not on rote learning and they are taught concepts and expected to extrapolate them..so no i wouldn’t blame our education system. I’ve been educated in both india and us and i feel ( only my opinion) the american method of education is much more open and i thnk more sound than the indian system…they get strong basics andretainthem and actually applyt hem to real life.
anyway i’m not debating the merits of the system all i’m saying is i’m seeing more and more of this agression in faith and it doesn’t bode well to have religionin a public sphere.. keep it inyour family and between you & god.
“they are commonly united again school and parents
” Yes too funny!
“keep it in your family and between you & god.”
You know that is really true about America…most Americans have the strong feeling that religion is a private matter between you and God and perhaps one’s church/mosque/temple. It will be very unusual indeed to have an American ask your faith…not that it doesn’t happen but we consider it a private matter.
Oby,
Perhaps the new generation is different.
Radha,
That’s the impression I had too about US high school education – till I taught these students from many US universities. And believe me, they came from many famous universities, including the Ivy League.
It was a general trend to see their level of ignorance about the world. I’m not talking about exceptions, but rather the norm.
I understand your point and I myself wouldn’t have believed it if I hadn’t taught them and if someone had told me this. Besides, there seemed to be no evidence of critical thinking.
Since then I have discussed this issue with some US professors from different universities and they have admitted that it is true that the US high school education is seriously flawed and it needs to be corrected.
But the students from the Graduate levels are definitely better. they are mature and also understand the democratic values.
But everyone doesn’t go to the Graduate level.
daisy – you may be right, i have only limited contact with kids, mine and their friends , so i’m no great judge onthe school system.
They may not be wordly wise but then whicj kids is? but i do beleive they are great “critical thinkers” especially when compared to kids from other countries.. The education system may be flawed but most have good reasoning skills and the bright ones are very application based. I have seen kids from india , france and britian. I’d rate franc ethe lowest in terms of pure knowledge and application, india and britian have somewhta similar systems, but britian is much much better and Indian system spoon feeds kids, they all learn by rote , not one thnks beyond those books and ever questions..
But then again every systm has it’s flaws, there’s nothing that is perfect. I’m all for revamping the us system, but i worry that they may break an alreayd working system .
as for grad school, here grad school is masters level, which few do, depending on which region you live in, i’d say many go to undergrad school ( bachelors) infact 100% students from my son’s batch went on to 4 yr college – which is astounding nad this is much much more involved thanthe standard BA, BS in india..
So education is not a concern for me, it’s the other things that worry me, judging the kids, cataloguing them into a particular grop etc., but ..that’s the world we live in . so guess they better get used to it. My daughters next in line.. indian looking kid with a lastname following hinduism … she’s going to get those stares…
Radha, *focus on EDUCATION.. not women, muslim or otherwise…*
Woehahahahahaaaaa!
Sad though…
Actually, Sandy gave us this recommendation to watch ”Age of reason”
I only found one episode, it is about faith schools and it matches our current (off topic) conversation.
Religions want to get at children early, so they can indoctrinate them with faith when they are at the most gullible and the easiest to influence.
That boy has evidently gone through the process and has lost the freedom of mind to think for himself.
Sad.
Actually, I changed religions completely when I was in my early teens and a friend of mine did her experimenting then, too (though she ended up changing back). I would imagine that many kids would examine religion during their teens when they are exploring their identities, though I could be wrong.
Regarding the US education system, yes, it’s a great system as compared to many others, but it definitely could use some improvement. Most people seem to think it’s good to give kids “well-rounded” educations, but that just ends up forcing kids to memorize a bunch of facts on a bunch of topics without ever really checking to see if they understand them. I would be much happier if kids were universally taught how to relate to and use the info rather than just pass a standardized test. Unfortunately, as long as teachers are kept out of the decision-making process, this probably won’t happen.
I don’t know, I think (American) kids today are a strange combination of worldly and insulated. I had a friend who bought a $400 cell phone from Germany but most of my French students still think French people all wear berets. If the media tells them pants around their knees are in, then that’s what they wear; if it shows them intolerance for other religions, then that is what they tend to emulate. Even the US has a long way to go – especially if this the future we’re looking at.
A very interesting interview.
saudi arabia cannot go on as it is. In the end they will self destruct if they do.
Unabated War Against Saudi Women
Due to their undiminished insistence that the country’s wealth, decision-making and governorship remain a private property of the ruling family and its theocratic partners, any meaningful reform in Saudi Arabia will remain aesthetic. This is exemplified by numerous royal decrees and declaration by King Abdullah regarding the judicial system, labor, education, national dialogue, economic cities and women’s rights.
These royal gestures sound liberal to the public, but in fact, the y are designed to be rejected by the religious establishment and its royal handlers, such as Princes Naif and Salman. This has always been the way since the death of country’s founder in 1953, but has intensified since Abdullah ascendancy to the throne more than five years ago.
A recent example is a decision taken by Panda supermarket chain to hire 16 women cashiers in a store in Saudi Arabia’s most liberal city, Jeddah. Members of the religious establishment immediately protested against the company’s decision. They called it “Un-Islamic” and warned the public not to patronize the company.
For fear of collective reprisals, the public heeded the warning. The store was seen empty of customers, and cashiers were sitting idol as of last reporting on August 31, 2010. Not surprisingly, there was no word from King Abdullah to support the supermarket’s decision to hire women cashiers or to instruct his religious zealot to withdraw their opposition.
These duplicitous political maneuvers employed by royals, usually result in an unfair blame of society for rejecting women and reforms. Religion is also blamed for denying women their basic human and full citizenship rights. In reality, neither society and/or religion are responsible for denying women their rights to feed themselves and support their families.
It is politics and economic. Allowing women to work would undermine the elites’ unchallenged political and economic privilege. To exonerate itself from meeting its obligations to all members of society, the system blames Islam, tradition and society for its failures.
Sadly, some people (men and women) accept this lame and dated argument.
http://arabnews.com/saudiarabia/article106238.ece
J heard about the fatwa to boycott the store (and aren’t these arbitrary fatwas forbidden by the king now?) but I didn’t think people would actually comply!!!!!
And how is this supposed be logic?
It is ”unislamic” to have a female cashier dealing with a male customer.
But it is fine and ”islamic” if a male cashier is dealing with a female customer…
What’s the real difference here? THe only difference is: in the ”unislamic” case it’s the woman who is making some money.
And that is just so unislamic…