Saudi Arabia: Saudi Men, Foreign Women and Responsibilities of Marriage

Just when you think you’ve finally heard everything on the challenges and cons of Saudi men who marry foreigners, you get articles which pop up like these ones in Arab News and the Saudi Gazette.  Both of these are pretty much the same except with some slight differences.  Between the two articles the following Saudi officials have either spoken out against Saudis marriage to foreigners or expressed high concern:

Nizar Al-Saleh, Assistant Secretary-General of the National Center for Research on Youth at King Saud University: marriage to foreign women is not advisable for those who are seeking a stable family life.

Saleh Al-Khathlan, Vice President of the National Society for Human Rights: The government will not accept such marriage contracts and the foreign wives will not be allowed to enter the Kingdom.

Abdul Aziz Al-Ghareeb, a sociologist from Al-Imam Muhammad ibn Saud Islamic University: Such marriages result in Saudis getting deadly diseases such as AIDS and hepatitis. Children from such marriages may also suffer from diseases such as autism and paralysis.

Ali Al-Hanaki, adviser to Awasir, an organization that looks after Saudis abroad (Society for the Welfare of Saudi Families Abroad), highlighted his society’s efforts in solving problems faced by such Saudi families.  Foreign women sought marriage to Saudis in order to obtain Saudi nationality, and not to build a family or married life. Some couples married abroad have contagious diseases, and illnesses like Aids, hepatitis and venereal diseases. Studies have shown that Saudi men may be led into marriage with women who are already married or work in prostitution. Saudis should turn to Saudi girls for marriage as that would also solve the problem of unmarried Saudi women, while we should also make things easier for our sons in terms of costs.

Towfik Al-Suwalem, Chairman of Awasir’s Board of Directors, referred to his Organization’s efforts to correct the legal status of such families by proving the legality of their marriages.  Yet after stating how Awasir can help, Al-Suwalem is then quoted as “We would like to present a study on the repercussions of foreign marriages on Saudi society and urged the media to enlighten the public on the negative effects of such marriages.”

So there we have the National Center for Research on Youth at King Saudi University, National Society for Human rights, Al-Imam Muhammad ibn Saudi Islamic University and Awasir all speaking out against Saudi marriages to foreigners.  I cannot imagine these entities speaking out without the sanction of the Government of Saudi Arabia such as the Ministry of Interior and Ministry of Foreign Affairs, which are imperative Ministries involved in marriages of Saudis to foreigners.

I have difficulty understanding why a country let alone a country’s government be so involved in who can or cannot marry whom!  For a Muslim country, attempting to place such control over marriages is not Islamic.  Furthermore the reasons identified pertaining to the risks of such marriages are pretty farfetched if not downright preposterous!  What kind of an educated Saudi is going to believe that marriage to a foreigner may cause the birth of an autistic or paralyzed child?  How can an educated professor be allowed to make such an outrageous statement which portrays Saudi Arabia as backwards, uneducated and, well, I hate to say it but ridiculous!  Wouldn’t it be better just to have those individuals make a case choosing better words with logic instead of attempting to make them look like the back end of a donkey?  Saudis are not stupid.  Even those who question have access to professionals and to the internet.

What do YOU think?  I’m asking not only of the message which the article sends but the statements which have been made.

I also think the many comments which have been made to the article in Arab News are worth reading as well.

link for comments to Arab News article:

http://arabnews.com/saudiarabia/article86409.ece?comments=all#comments

And yes, I posted my own point of view on Arab News but I’ll have to wait and see if my comment was published.  I’m well known for saying exactly what I think…in addition to having had a beautiful marriage with a Saudi man.

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99 Responses

  1. I’m confused. Wasn’t there just talk of relaxing the restriction of Saudi’s marrying foreign wives?

  2. Salaams Carol

    I just love your eloquence……….” the back end of a donkey”.

    I too am a “foreigner” married to a Saudi and, Alhumdulillah, have 4 beautiful, healthy girls. The only health issue we have dealt with is amblyopia (lazy eye), which is a genetic trait on their father’s side of the family. Regardless, its a common problem among children generally.

    It’s quite interesting to see what lengths one will go through to discourage Saudi marriages to foreigners. Obviously, no matter what is said or done it is still not stopping or discouraging Saudis marrying foreigners……where there is a will there is a way :)

  3. That is…wow. I’m actually at a loss for words.

  4. I guess if they won’t allow foreign wives into the country then Saudis will have to make a really difficult choice. Talk about twisting one’s arm. Sheesh.

    But on the flip side of that coin, I have read that the divorce rate for foreign marriages is somewhere around 70%. that seems really high if true. Perhaps that is a testament to how difficult it is for the average non Saudi to live in Saudi. What is the average divorce rate for a Saudi/saudi marriage?

  5. Incredible propaganda in order to marry off the 25-year old “spinsters” I’m guessing. Nothing like putting the fear of the wicked, disease-ridden foreign women idea in your child’s head before shipping him off to the West to study.

  6. mind blowing .. how very creative of the profesor( is he the real kind?) .

  7. Carol,

    I love your frankness…and that you had the seven blissful years with the man of your dreams. You are so lucky. Only a select-few are able to succeed in multi-cultural marriages. Bless you….and his presence still permeates about…I know this for a fact…as this is how i mourned my gem, my father.

    BTW, i may not like how the Saudi’s treat women–but that doesn’t stop me from appreciating the other wonderful aspects; henceforth, the mystique of natures surroundings and the cuisine and commarderie amongst Saudi women and some men.

    Fondly,

    Carina

    ps we need to stick together

  8. Saudis and foreigners alike would be better served by more mature considerations, ones that rest on a basis of truth instead of silly sensationalism. The mentality of people who write and read such rubbish are not interested in cross-cultural marriage for themselves; they don’t understand that those who are interested in it are far better educated than they are, and therefore immune to childish scare tactics.

    The very real issues of cross-cultural marriage are generally well understood by those who venture into it. These enlightened souls are the ones who should be writing essays on the topic.

    Carol, you’ve already done more than your share. Keep going!

  9. UmmZackaria…just curious but why if you have 4 girls is your name UmmZackaria?

  10. Well, I’ll do all the Saudi men a favour and quarantine my supposed disease-riddled self from them…don’t want to give them cooties.

    Yeesh.

  11. This is really important news! Imagine all the decades of work done by scientists to help children with autism, and to rescue people from AIDS!
    And all the while it was sò easy!
    All these health problems are simply caused by Saudi men marrying ”foreign” women!!!!
    (not by saudi men going on sex-holidays and sleeping with prostitutes all over the world and then infecting their poor saudi wives?)

    I wonder when they will get the Nobel-prize for this one…

  12. Aafke –

    I agree. I really don’t get the whole ‘holier than thou’ of some and how they say how corrupt the West is, when in fact, they are the ones going to the West to join in the ‘party.’ I mean, how many men go to Bahrain or Dubai every weekend looking for a good time?

    Why do they marry gals from the West? I think it’s because these guys find girls of their own choosing whom they fall for. They like the fact that they are loved for who they are and not for their name, their status, or their wealth.

    If parents want to be more secure in sending their sons to the West, they might want to consider having them marry one of the many available Saudi women before they leave. It’s a shame that these women are stuck in the house here when they could be abroad getting an education.

  13. I was given to understand that autism was a problem in Saudi Arabia because of inbreeding.

    Yes, Saudis travelling to sex-trips around the world and contracting venereal diseases and AIDS is true.

    So the ruling should be that Saudi men shouldn’t spread AIDS and autism to foreign countries by having intimate relationships with foreign women.

    Perhaps Saudi men should carry AIDS test results and family history of autism to the embassies where they apply for a visa to travel abroad and they should be denied visa if they have positive results on these two counts.

    Rather than reserving autism and AIDS-afflicted Saudi men for Saudi women, how about letting the Saudi women marry foreigners to “solve the problem of their singleness?”

    My suspicion is that these men in the quoted articles are talking about foreign wives from the non-Western countries, to encourage the Saudi men to marry more Western women and not from the non-Western countries.

    It only shows their racist prejudices.

  14. Yes, after reading the articles it appears they are talking about Misyar marriages in non-Western countries.

  15. It is really a shame. This is the first time I may agree 100% with your article AB. These people who talked in the report I think that they hold fake titles? I feel sad that they were not honest in their arguments and also their comments are oriented religiously and politically more than it is based on reliable studies and statistics. It is an insult for the foreign wives who are married to Saudis. And poor Saudi single males are left out without help. They can not afford to marry Saudi girls who need high dowry. Also, Saudis do not want arranged marriage like before because it ends up with divorce and because couples do not know each other very well. It is also an insult to human feelings where a Saudi who fall in love with a foreign lady and they want to get married but they can not build their love in a stable life because of the government restrictions. I myself hate their excuses because it is not candid except with “the temporary marriage” when Saudis go outside for short term marriage but I do not put the blame on Saudis. I will put the whole blame on the religious scholars who allow such kind of fake marriage which is against Islamic teachings. Also I do not like that they did not speak with polite words at least with respect to foreign ladies who are living now with their Saudi husbands and enjoy a happy life. They also did not speak the truth about the main reasons that cause these sufferings and family breaks between Saudis and their foreign wives. It is their restrictions on the marriage from outside the country. If Saudi government gives Saudis the full right to marry according to their faith, we will never have such problem and Saudi husbands and their wives will never pass any difficulties to bring their wives and their kids to Saudi. Saudi kids are left out with their mums abroad because Saudi government did not allow them to com in the country with their wives and kids. Also this decision is against Islam that allows a Muslim to marry non Muslims. The reasons that motivate this government decision are not what people may think about at first time. It is motivated by the fear that Saudi society will change from inside and this change will create more subcultures and new cultures inside the country which may cause religious and political problems in the future. In sum, I conclude that the main blame should be put on the Saudi government and the religious scholars and they are the main cause of these problems and this government decision will not help to fix the problem of what they called “spinsterhood” at all. It will create more and more problems and cause more and more human sufferings.

    I really apologize for any hurt that these naive accusations might cause to Saudis’ foreign wives.

  16. I find this really sad as well. News can be a form of propoganda anywhere used to get people behind a certain cause. Obviously, many of the points brought up in the article aren’t valid. I do not think I need to go into detail about this because I think that Medina explained well, and I agree with what he’s said as it seems to make perfect logical sense. To be honest, I didn’t even think that fear of change in culture may be a major motivational reason against Saudi to non-Saudi marriage but it makes sense.

    My main concerns are:
    What laws will be passed soon regarding Saudis marrying foreigners if various government and religious leaders in Saudi are against it?
    How will different articles such as this one influence Saudis’ opinions of Saudi to non-Saudi marriage?
    These are both two major things that may affect my life as well as others, so I am hoping that any change in the future is positive even though articles like these exist. I’m hoping it’s not false hope. lol.

    This reminds me a bit of the US’s problem with illegal immigrants living in the country. There would be a lot less problems if there was one simple, reasonable process.

  17. I just hope this is a wake up call for all the foreign women who are planning to marry saudi men.

    I’m in saudi right now,but not married to a saudi.I believe when you marry a person you marry his family as well,nd may God help any foreign woman who wants to marry a saudi.

  18. Madina’s comment is very enlightening in this regard!

    The real reason of the government trying to resist change from within in future is an important contribution by him.

  19. Susu’s comment about marrying the family reminded me. I am now reading Greg Mortenson’s second book “Stones Into Schools.” His group is building schools in remote areas of Pakistan and Afghanistan. Last night he was sharing how his group (CAI) decided to offer scholarships to a select few girls with high marks so they could study beyond the high school level. They recognized the importance of some of them becoming doctors and such things and returning to help their people.

    So they heard of a dentist with a bright daughter and although they typically saved the scholarships for the poorer children, they decided to interview Siddre and ended up offering her a scholarship. Everyone was in agreement except a brother in law. Yep, not even blood kin to the family, but married to Siddre’s sister.

    He protested! He asked why they wanted to take away their girls and educated them…and later it came down to the heart of the matter. HE wanted the scholarship. He was jealous of his SIL and therefore – at the OK of his father in law and at the sadness of all the others – he was able to keep his sister in law from furthering her studying!

    I thought that was incredibly sad that jealousy could affect someone in this way.

    I know this is Afghanistan and not Saudi, but the whole marrying into the family comment reminded me of it. Hopefully brother in laws in Saudi don’t carry such weight! I can’t imagine my own BIL keeping me from doing something the rest of my family OK’d.

    (And, no, this book does not bash Afghanis….the author was merely telling a few problems they’d encountered along the way in their efforts to educate girls…among other things.)

  20. Well, at least the first article was clear that Saudi men who marry without the intention of bringing the wife and kids over to KSA are behaving irresponsible and causing family breakdowns. That, I thought, put the blame where it belongs.

    The rest of it is just too sad.

    Radha, with regard to whether he is the real professor – remember, that these are professors and doctors of Islamic science (when there is really no such thing). The purpose of their degrees is to give them the right to speak with authority of things that anyone with a brain ought to be able to figure out themselves. After reading hundreds of these gems I understood they are just running their mouths. There is no foundation to anything they say.

  21. “Children from such marriages may also suffer from diseases such as autism and paralysis.”

    does he give any reason why he believes this to be so. seems a preposterous claim, if you ask me.

  22. @Daisy,

    You comment is just as ignorant as those made by these Saudi figures. Where in the world did you get the “understanding” that Autism is related to inbreeding? Is it from your years of studying Autism? Your professional and educational experience, loads of empirical, scientific based studies? Or are you just pulling this opinion from somewhere else?

    Pure ignorance! As a father of an Autistic child myself I can assure you that inbreeding has NOTHING to do with. They do think there is a genetic link with Autism, but not that it is inherited or that can be passed on. There is zero history of Autism in either my wife’s family or mine.

    It would seem this is just another attempt to slam Saudi. Saudi has enough legitimate reasons to be slammed without you making them up!

    Of course the guys who made these statements are idiots, but Saudis are not alone in the world when it comes to sex tourists and those who buy/marry women abroad. Westerners are KNOWN in many countries for their exploitation of men, women and children for sexual puposes.

    The Saudi bashers here want to act as if these things are exclusive to Saudi. It just isnt so. To try and pass off the idea that Saudi somehow is worse that other countries just isnt true and paints a false picture.

    This is an issue for any country that has wealth. Those who behave in such an awful way, when given the resources, will travel to places where they can get away with it.

    The idea that YOU think that Saudi men can spread Autism is YOUR racism showing, not to mention as MASSIVE ignorance of Autism, it’s causes and how it is spread.

    You are NO different than these idiots in the article.

  23. If I happen to marry a Saudi, is there a high chance that my children may have a medical probelm due to his side of the family, since most Saudis marry famly as close as first cousins, compared to someone else?

    P.S these men are not doctors…period…

  24. cool red: I have children from a previous marriage

  25. @Mona Alas,

    why would you think that, you’re not marrying your cousing right? yes he could have genetic issues in his family but so could anyone else anywhere else inthe world. life holds no such guarantees, you could get tested before marriage for genetic disorders but thats about all you can do. As for autism it’s NOT a disorder that is inherited. atleast it wasn’t the last time i read . It’s just a differenct characteristic that exhibits ina n individual.. not to diminish the stress said parents go thru, but it’s not a disease — contaigous, inherited etc.,

  26. Just asking…

    I watched this documentary about women in Qatar who would refuse to marry thier cousins and if they did they would test themselves when pregnant to see if they will give birth to a baby with a disorder, or not…I hope this doesnt lead to high abortion rates.

    Unlike these so called scholars, I would def. recommend Saudi youth to explore their horzions and marry for love. We only live once…there is nothing wrong to rebel against customs that are un-islamic and meaningless. I think it would change the scope of KSA society for the better. More mixng, better understanding about different people and cultures.

    LoL, I just thought about it…the Royal family is full of princes and princessess of mixed race…why doesn’t anyone mention that?

  27. Sorry to deviate from the topic, but one most vexing issue here is with long beaucratic procedures, I am struggling to clear my cargo since last twenty days and I have no idea what’s happening there.

  28. I’m sorry Arif for you. Hope you get it sorted out soon.

    Abu Sinan,
    If your religion makes you burn with hatred so much I am not sure it’s a religion at all and am not sure it’s a right God.

  29. Umm Zacharia…ok. Thank you. I am the mother of a Zackaria as well.

  30. @Mona,
    There is an obligatory genetic testing for all saudis who want to get married. The results of the test are not obligatory to follow. You can get married even if the test results are positive. Just for people who link autism to inheritance. Autism by no means is linked to inheritance. Just for more information about the number of autistics in Saudi, there are 200,000 Saudi autistic kids which indicate high rate (0.1%). Mona, are you Saudi by heritage lol, as Alas is a tribe in the south of Saudi. And it also refers to many different things that range from sorrow, ethnic group to long-range ground attack missile in Serbia lol.

    @arif,
    what is the cargo company?

  31. Again no comment moderator,
    Daisy, is here bashing my religion.She shows so much hatred for Islam, and Saudi.
    Muslims are not perfect but Allah and Islam are.

  32. @ Medina

    No I am not Saudi. However I do trace my lineage back to Aseel ibn Abu-Talib. I am Yemeni orginally father and mother is a barawani (portugese Somalis). My family lived in KSA for 10 years but left to Canada in the 1980’s.

    The only Muslim country I visited other than Yemen (Sinai) is KSA. I do want to go to Somali next year. However do not take my arguments as negative. I just think KSA – given the oppurtuntty of wealth and stability should be a role-model to other Muslim countries and help acheive a just and equal society.

  33. “Abu Sinan,
    If your religion makes you burn with hatred so much I am not sure it’s a religion at all and am not sure it’s a right God.”- Daisy

    LOL LOL LOL

    He is questioning you how YOU came up with YOUR conclusion about the cause of the autism in ppl in Saudi…and that’s your reply?! LOL

    Yea, Right or Wrong, Islam only has one God! And thanks God for that!!

  34. My husband wishes I wouldn’t read these blogs because he’s getting more and more depressed about the country and his family living there and is also embarassed by much of what I tell him.
    I guess the gov’t likes the results of in-breeding with first cousins!!! It’s unbelievable that they would blame some of the children’s health problems caused by marrying within the family on marriage to foreigners.

  35. I know this is a little off-topic, but I remember reading somewhere that there is a controversial debate on whether or not the levels of mercury contained in all the different vaccines given to babies was somehow related to autism. Has anyone else read anything on this at all?

  36. Some foreign women that Saudis are married to, are very good and caring individuals. They are family oriented and raise good family. They adapt to the local customs and traditions and at the same time maintain good relationship with their familes back home. Even if they do not like the way of living, they will be patient and bear all. Allah bless these women. We welcome them with open arms.

    However, unfortunately, all are not like that. The sickness and diseases, the reports is refferring to, is about those women who are of loose character. These women are not beneficial to the society at all. Not only do they spread their ailments but they do something far worse. They brainwash the saudi men and remove them from their tradtional life and customs and some even remove their Islam. Yes, they do. I know of these people.

    They, with their womenly ways will sway the men to get what they want. These women are themselves without any faith and they want their husbands to be the same. And some men are just so stupid that they will follow them with whatever they want for some pleasure that they get.

    Yes this is what KSA does not want. These foreign women (West or East) are the ones that destroy family ties and break relationsnips. An elderly Saudi women is much better than these women.

  37. @sarahMD,

    Whereever you say “woman” in your comment — replace it with “MEN” ..and then read it, doesn’t it sound True to a large extent.. there are loose women adnloose men EVERYWHERE. there are people with disease nd without .. can you show me 1 disease free,upright moral utopia?
    “They, with their womenly ways will sway the men to get what they want” — this is a highly insulting thing to say to men… they are neither dumb nor stupid and have excellent minds of their own.

    Even if as you say all majority of women outside KSA are diseases and godless, don’t you think the saudi men are capabale of making their own decisions? are they dumb enough they they cannot recognize these crazy women and keep away from them?

    I believe inthe goodness of people, i don’t thnk any wife i out there to wreak havoc in her marital family, women ( inthe west) long for a peaceful life too.. no one likes to life in strife…

    I’d say just for grins replace your text and maybe post it as a warning to saudi women ..

  38. “These women are not beneficial to the society at all. ”
    — really a women with loose character who serves the poor is not beneficial to society, I know a lady who teached braille – free!!!! she’s a dancer ( the night kind) so she’s not beneficial to society?
    try telling that to her face :-)
    I’d argue and say – a doctor who takes money to treat patients is not as beneficial to society as a senor citizen volunteeringin a clinic.. do you agree .. what defines the parameters of beneficial? we are all selfish being, have to be to a certain extent to survive.

  39. The saudi articles are probably good advice. After reading this blog for a while, it is clear that most saudi men are a very bad choice for marrying. And living in KSA is undesirable, if not dangerous, for most women.

    Why would any woman become a part of that if she were not born into it?

  40. @ Susanna,
    Based on the Saudi men I have personally met, I would say that the number of good and bad ones (if you would like to see it that way) is about the same as any group of people I have come across in my life. As for the society, well, I guess it depends on how you choose to view it and what is important to you in life.

    As for why a woman would become part of that is she wasn’t born into it, here is my perspective:

    For me, it is very difficult to find someone that loves me for who I am (not how they want me to be), that I love for who they are (not who I want them to be), has similar values as me, and is willing to stay committed to me for life (yes it would go both ways). If this person happens to be a Saudi citizen, I am willing to work through some of the cultural, legal, etc. issues because my relationship with this person is important to me. Obviously, there would be compromises made by both of us as with any other relationship. However, I do not think that bi-cultural relationships work for everyone. It really depends on individual values, personalities, etc. of both the people in the relationship.

    If I move to Saudi Arabia one day, it would be because I married someone from there and we decided it was best to be close to his family (and/or for whatever other important valid reason). Of course, if I was single and moved there, it would be to learn more about the culture while working there.

  41. @Daisy,

    Funny that you accuse me of hatred! YOUR hatred is so strong that when I asked you to reference your claims that Autism is caused by inbreeding you FAIL to answer, rather you choose to attack my religion instead.

    You are ignorant, you are hateful and you dont have a clue about 99% of what you talk about. Your comment on Autism being the most recent example of that.

    Your comments on Autism were 100% ignorant and based on nothing more than a figment of your imagination.

    You have shown you have no grasp of any of the facts at play here on any level and with the Autism comments you demonstrate that you are even willing to lie and make things up to support your hatred.

    You and the jihadis go hand in hand. You’ll lie, cheat and deceive to try and justify your hatred. Peas in a pod.

    So back to the facts…….can you support your comments about Autism? Why not just admit that you made that up and it is based on nothing? You made up the comments about Autism just to have another way to bash Saudis.

    Sorry, but people here have intimate knowledge about many things and some of us are NOT afraid to call you out on your lies and ignorance!

  42. Some of you people really crack me up!! Are you for real?

    I doubt the autism is from inbreeding but perhaps the professor in the article is onto something about the outcome of mixing of the Saudi and ‘foreigner’? LOL

    It’s sad that a newspaper would even print that kind of garbage.

  43. My eyes about fell out of my head over this. Austism…really? What kind of people educate their citizens with such garbage? Spreading falsehoods about Foreign women. The man should lose his job over such crap!

  44. Well, I have no problem with the kind of religion Arif follows – as observed from his comments.

    But the religion that Abu Sinan and some others on this blog represent can’t be the same religion as that of Arif’s.

    Theirs is a cult of hatred.

    Arif,
    I hope you don’t absorb all this hatred from Saudi Arabia during your stay there.

    Abu Sinan,
    I’m surprised that despite raising two autistic children you haven’t looked into this. You should have known about it.

    You may see the following links –

    there are studies that show a genetic link. Even more so, there is a study that targeted ME families for 2 reasons 1) Families have many children in the ME, making it easier to compare genes between siblings and 2) Mothers and Fathers can share common ancestors.

    Here is an article that relates to this Harvard study. You can find many of them on google

    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/114688.php

    Also, this one, which is not in the free domain, but you may want to see it for your own benefit –

    http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v454/n7206/full/454838a.html

  45. Most foreign women and Saudi men marry due to a strong connection. In my case, that connection was a sense of completeness in finding the ideal life partner whom I loved, could talk to on any issue and was also my best friend. It was not planned. It was not expected. I fought my own feelings hard before I could allow myself to acknowledge that I had in fact fallen deeply in love with a man from a different culture, traditions and country. We only had seven short years as husband and wife but I will cherish that time forever. If we had been younger when we met and married, I’ve no doubt we would have had children together too. Whether born with autism, paralysis or any kind of disfigurement, they would have been created from our love and God and cherished forever.

  46. well, my comment must have been viewed as too controversial for it was not posted to Arab News. C’est la vie and thank goodness for blogs!

  47. Western women do not cause autism, retardation, paralysis, cooties, and venereal disease as they have very advanced medical care in their countries, and this fact is very well known to almost all Saudi parents, who advice and encourage their offsprings before shipping them of to the West to marry Western women, specifically American women.

    Third World women, especially Hindus, cause these diseases, because of the lack of medical care, deformed genetic make-up, and demon gods as they worship and glorify rats and the like, and prohibit getting rid of them, while these rats are the primary source of detrimental, communicable diseases.

    P.S.
    I am interested in marrying a Western woman, particularly an American, and I would appreciate your help in this regard.

  48. Abdulrahman Al-Zuhayyan,

    I don’t think a western woman would be interested in marrying a man who has the racist views you’ve expressed in your post. And you are completely wrong that almost all Saudi parents want their children to marry western women.

    It would also seem that your knowledge of diseases are at the same low level as those quoted in the article.

  49. Abdulrahman A. Al-Zuhayyan, are you crazy????

  50. @Radha
    I was expecting your reply.
    Yes some men are stupid and they will be blind when they see goldilocks and some clever men are known to be dazzelled by white skin that they take the form of stupid men only to realize later what a mistake they made. Some women also realize the mistake they made.

    Yes there are loose men but I am talking about loose women. These are not beneficial to the society in the sense that they do not have real family values. They are not doing anything to strenghten family bonds ans raise good children and they are bad examples to their kids and future generations. They just want to have fun. If your loose friends are teaching day time and dancing night time, then when do they have time for their families? Are they teaching the right things for their kids?

  51. Strange one, there are many medical people who are convinced that the very great burden placed on very young children by giving them large amounts of vaccins, some wholly unnesseccary, are responsible for the current rise in autism.
    The mercury used in vaccins is thimerosol, organic mercury which, because it is organic, is not recognised by the body and crosses the brain blood barrier.
    There are statistics which link rise in autism to rise in vaccinations. I wrote an article about this:

    http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/2010/04/17/vaccinations-make-you-sick/

  52. Sandy,
    Your knowledge about diseases that you have expressed only tells that, “YOU DON’T KNOW YOUR MOUTH FROM A WHOLE IN THE GROUND”

    Name-calling and twisting logic tactics cannot dismiss scientific facts.

    Are you telling me that a population of over a billion that worship chattels that defecate in the streets under the watchful eyes of Hindus without doing any thing to prevent this disgusting act or clean the streets; gathers rats that cause the plaque and worship them; carry the HIV/Aids diseases, live in filth, don’t cause diseases?

    Do millions of Western women have HIV/Aids? This is a view of a retard.

    What do you know about Saudi parents not encouraging their children to marry Western woman? Are you Saudi, if not, Don’t talk and define Saudis, let them define themselves.

    Racist views only come out from those who feel inferior, cannot control their envy that other people are superior to them in some respects, and feel good by attacking Saudis. Saudis are not as low as others who revel in attacking other people. This is another scientific fact.

  53. Abdul Rahman,
    During our previous encounter, when I came to know about your great intellectual powers as a result of getting educated in the US by Hindu Professors, I wanted to ask you if you were able to find superior women of European ancestry as girlfriends or as a wife, but didn’t ask.

    Now that you have raised this issue yourself, I am curious to know, when you were in the US, were you not able to get girls of European ancestry as girlfriends or as a wife? Were they not able to see you as the most eligible bachelor around with great intellectual powers and a great Saudi heritage etc?

    Now that you have returned to Saudi Arabia, you are expressing this desire. You should have tried when you were in the US.

    Maybe you can make another trip to the US before your government enforces this law and stops your new wife from coming inside your country.

    And you should hurry, before it’s too late – there are so many intellectual Saudi men going to the US nowadays, so you have big competition!

    Another suggestion – may be you can give an interview on this blog and express this desire, so that some women of European ancestry may apply to you for your kind consideration.

    PS – Don’t forget to give your photograph and also talk in detail about your worldview, what you have read in life, how you interpret Clash of Civilisations etc.

  54. @Daisy,

    Again you show your COMPLETE lack of knowledge! I never said there wasnt a genetic component of Autism. Having a step daugher, 17 with Autism, and a son aged 5 with Autism, it is very clear that genetics is a role.

    However, that is NOT the same thing has inbreeding. Are you SO thick as to NOT understand that? Where in either of those articles, or ANYWHERE have you EVER seen the idea that Autism can be an inherited trait passed from family member to family member?

    You WONT see it because it DOESNT exist. If it was familial genetics you’d see clusters of Autism in single families, but you dont. Siblings of one sibling with Autism are much more lucky to have Autism, but this DOESNT extend to their cousins. So it is clear, to everyone but you and a few donkeys that this is a genetic problem with the children themselves and maybe their parents. It is NOT a familial problem as you contend with your statements about inbreeding.

    I am begining to think you are a product of inbreeding yourself. What else would explain your profound ignorance, your perception that you action know something, and your hatred of Muslims and Islam?

    Never mind the fact that you seem to spend every waking hour on this blog spreading your hate like a virus!

    With the time you spend here and your own blog, no doubt many others, you must have no life.

    Pathetic.

  55. @Aakfe,

    The idea that Autism is caused by vaccines is NOT supported by any credible empiricle scientific studies and has been disgarded as a theory by the vast majority of scientists studying the issues as well as those of us with children with Autism.

    Time for people to move on from crazy conspiracy theories and ACTUALLY do something to help children and adults with Autism.

  56. @Abu Sinan,

    Cool it down. Your constant feud with Daisy is getting very personal.

    Blog Moderator

  57. Abdul Rahman, Will you accept a divorced American woman if she’s got lilly white skin but a nasty disposition? If so I’ll go get that divorce right now! I think I’ve got a few old eggs left yet if you want to have kids.

  58. Abu Sinan,
    I didn’t say Autism is inherited. I said possibility of autism increases with inbreeding. If there is a history of inbreeding in a family, the possibility of the child being born autistic or with other genetic defects is much higher than in families which don’t practise inbreeding.

    This doesn’t mean that there has to be a history of autism in a family with inbreeding practices in order to be a child born autistic.

    Inbreeding is related to genetic disorders and has the possibility of giving rise to autistic children. This is what those researches are finding out now.

    If you don’t want to believe it, that’s your problem, not mine.

    I don’t want to discuss this issue with you anymore.

  59. Lynn,
    Have you really had a bad day? :-)

  60. @Daisy,

    You have yet to provide one bit of evidence that Autism is higher in people with inbreeding. If that was the case Saudi would hardly be the only place that was a hot spot of Autism, think the American South, Pakistan and India where inbreeding commonly happens.

    You dont want to discuss this issue anymore because you dont have a clue about what you are talking about.

    You think you know more about Islam and Muslims than the Muslims themselves. You think you know more about Autism than parents of children Autism who have lived and breathed the condition for years.

    Once again you make outrageous claims and refuse to back it up with any fact.

  61. @Abu Sinan,

    This is not a debate. I asked you to stop the personal insults. Your accusation comment will be deleted.

    I hope you have a good day.

    Blog moderator

  62. If you all want my opinion, which you probably don’t, I think over time some of you have developed really strong negative feelings to the other(s) and now neither/none of you are willing to listen to the other person(s) without taking it as a comment against you as an individual. I think maybe we all need a “time out” from debating with each other, and maybe just focus on the specific topic of the post. If you want to debate this with me, I’ll see you on the debate page.

  63. I am a little confused. Sometimes Daisy says that India and Saudi have a lot in common in relation to cultures but she spends a lot of time bashing Saudi cultures. Doesn’t this mean that she is basing Indian cultures too since they are so similar according to her?

    Can it be that she hates Indian culture and instead of bashing it (which would mean she will lose her face there), she is using Saudi as a place to vent her hatred of India?

    Just thinking …

  64. @ Daisy – ‘Lynn,
    Have you really had a bad day?’

    No, I just had a feeling that today was ‘Lose Your Mind Day’ so I figured I’d play along (and, judging by the comments here, I don’t think I was wrong!)

    OMG! LOL

  65. there are scientific researches being done in the Islamic countries to ascertain the relationship of inbreeding with autism.

    Please look at this research –

    Marriage between first cousins increases the prevalence of neurological birth defects by about 100%, with this excess attributable to increased autosomal recessive causes (23, 24), and with de novo chromosome anomalies representing a correspondingly reduced portion of the total (24). Although comparable epidemiological data for autism are not available, we reasoned that a prominent involvement of autosomal recessive genes in autism would be signaled by differences in the male-to-female (M/F) ratio of affected children in consanguineous (related) versus nonconsanguineous marriages

    Quoted from –

    http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/321/5886/218

    Please also be aware that in India, consanguineous marriages are prohibited in north Indian Hinduism and in majority of south Indian Hindu communities.

    It is practised only amongst a handful of south Indian communities and amongst the Muslims, who also avoid it if they can find a match outside blood relation.

    In North India there is a practice of matching the family trees of the couple from both sides (maternal and paternal) for 6 or 7 generations to ascertain that there is no common ancestor and that they don’t belong to the same lineage.

    Blood-related matches are illegal in Indian constitutions and are allowed only to Muslims and to the few Hindu communities on the basis of their tradition, but the majority of Indian population does not follow it.

  66. Sara MD
    There are commonalities in Indian and Saudi societies, but there are also differences. After a point the differences begin to show more than the commonalities.

  67. See this as well – relation between consanguineous marriage and identifying autism loci –

    http://sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/321/5886/218

  68. @Daisy,

    I thought you werent going to discuss this with me.

    As to the information provided, can you provide ANYTHING that says anything about Autism. The quote you provided says ” neurological birth defects” it doesnt mention Autism at all.

    The term “neurological birth defects” can mean a whole host of issues. I have NO idea where you came up with Autism in an attempt to link this story to Saudis.

    Many things are “illegal” in the Indian constitution that still happen regularly, such as the hindu practice of widows burning themselves to death on their husband’s funeral pyres and burning witches alive.

    You have yet to provide ONE shred of proof to support your statement. Par for course.

  69. @sarahMD,
    Are you for real? :-) alright to each his own i guess.
    As for what this lady who dances by night teachces her kids, she teaches them
    1. never to live by handouts,
    2. she provides them clean clothes and good education
    3. She teaches them optimism for the hand life dealt her
    4. She teaches them there is no shame in hard work
    5. She teaches them event hough they have next to nothing and cannot give money -she can spend her time to help the unfotunate
    6. She gives her life ,rarely sleeps mor ethan 4hrs a night, provides a clean home, healthy meal and good education and btw supports her aged MIL . She teaches when her kids are in school when she can just as easily be catching up onher sleep. she does not have the education to get a good job, she suppliments whatever she can earn during the day by dancing, and no she doesn’t like it and doesn’t want to do it, however she doesn’t want to live on dole either or dump her old MIL onthe state.

    I think she’s doing mor eto strenthen family bonds than someone who just visits family, she’s showing her kids the power of hard work and sticking together in times of stress — if this is not strengthenng family bonds then i have nothing more to say to you..

    BTW whe’s not a friend , just a patient but i would be honored to have her as my friend

  70. @Radha

    I was not talking about her kids from her class but her own kids. Is she setting a good example.

    You listed some points about what she teaches her kids. Does she also teach them that it is okay to degrade yourself to such a low level. Is she living a good example. Working hard? Dancing?! Didn’t she find a respectable job? She can work as a cleaner or janitor or even as cab driver.

    What about your goverment? Are they not helping her? Community?

    A lady has to repect herself first.

  71. In India, inbreeding is not practised. They will go by the stars – matching by an astrologer who will match the couple based on their zodiac signs.

    Even the blood need not be checked. The astrologer will tell them if they are matched and what is the good day to get married and the place. Not sure if he tells them how much dowry they have to pay.

    This way no one ever suffers from autism in India except for some Muslims who inbreed.

  72. Radha, I am impressed with the story of your patient.
    Thank you for sharing it. It is good to know there are parents which such perseverance and courage.
    I think she is setting an excellent example for everybody.

  73. @ sarah md,

    “no one ever suffers from autism in India excep..”

    are you sure about this?!
    i remember reading once that there were no aged related degenerative diseases in india, either (on account of tumeric use), only to discover that this was not quite the case..

    that being said, i am in no way negating what research says about the benefits of tumeric, i think everyone should include it in their diets.

  74. Africana,
    I was just being sarcastic

  75. I find people’s knowledge about India very poor here. I don’t know what kind of education these people get.

    In any case, how does criticising India (or West) help Saudi Arabia?

    Does it lower the cases of genetic disorders in KSA in any way?

  76. “What about your goverment? Are they not helping her? ”

    why should they? so she can sit and home and build family ties :-)

    I really don’t want to debate her life. all i can say is being in what someone deignes as a “good profession” doesnt necessarily make someone good or bad or as you say strengthening family bonds.
    again your opionions to you mine to mine. just that we are no one to judge others and coming back to the topic, the professor commenting about western women is wrong – morally and socially. but he has a mouth & i guess he can spout off whatever he wants.

  77. It makes me sick when I read articles like this. It’s ridiculous and untrue!

  78. Radha,
    That’s true but I only hope the authorities don’t take it seriously and make it into a law.

  79. There is Autism in India in the Hindu, Muslim and Siekh communities. Of course they are VASTLY behind the US when it comes to dealing with it and treatment. It wasnt even officially listed as a disability until the mid 1990s.

    What is the scary thing here is that Daisy has called for Saudi men to be tested for various genetic issues. This idea, testing and then keeping people from breeding based on their “genetic issues” was tried before.

    Nazi Germany in the 1930s and 1940s and the failed eugenics movement here in the USA.

    Of course in this case, since the suggestion was only made of Saudi men, it would seem racism and sectarianism was a major motivating factor in the suggestion.

    What if “genetic issues” are found? The men are not allowed to travel? Maybe they would have to sterilised first?

    Since you bring it up Daisy, what is your constant negative posting here about Saudi Arabia, Muslims and Islam going to do to help Muslims or Saudi Arabia?

    http://www.autism-india.org/afa_autisminindia.html

  80. “Does she also teach them that it is okay to degrade yourself to such a low level. Is she living a good example. Working hard? Dancing?! Didn’t she find a respectable job? She can work as a cleaner or janitor or even as cab driver.”

    aha, so professional dancer is only a little better than prostitute, according to your prejudiced mind.
    SarahMD, do not be shy to say it openly.
    so cleaner is respectable and dancer is not?
    said who? imam in your mosque?
    or your grandma?

  81. You are missing the point that I was reacting to so-called Saudi men issuing public statements about banning foreign wives from entering Saudi Arabia because they brought diseases.

    Why don’t you charge these Saudi men of Nazism?

    I thought you disliked Saudi Arabia.

  82. Please also supply the statistics for autism in Saudi Arabia – especially because this is a Saudi blog.

    Autism exists everywhere in the world and its cases are rising. Developed countries and underdeveloped countries are equally affected by it.

    I think it’s the sign of an imbalanced mind to not face the fact that scientists are researching the connection between inbreeding and autism – especially when one has two autistic children to raise.

    It is highly unfortunate that one displays this kind of attitude rather than exploring the scientific researches that are going on and benefit from them for one’s children.

    And with this kind of attitude you also lose the support of the people who may help you. Asking for help while spewing unbalanced comments full of hatred does not work.

  83. Read so-called educated Saudi men above.

  84. @Daisy,

    Now it is your turn to stop making this personal. This feud between you and Abu needs to stop. It has gone on for too long and over multiple topics.

    Blog Moderator

  85. i very much second bedu’s thoughts about personalising these arguments. only a few months back i was accused of being a brainwashed member of the nation of islam (which i’m not, have never been even remotely involved with them) and that was uncalled for, how much worse to bring somesone’s kids into the debate?

  86. Radha
    You asked that why should the government help the loose patient. Well if a woman had to go that level in KSA, hell would would have broken lose in this blog. People would be bashing KSA on all directions but since it is in your country, you can only defend her and applaud her.

    Now I ask you, since you are in awe of this dancer, would you recommend the same thing to your daughter? Would you tell you daughter that it is okay to pole dance? Or would you tell her to find some respectable work and earn respectable money. Get good education and be someone who does not have to go so low. Which one would you recommend to your daughter.

    What kind of society is that where you praise a woman who dances at night and teaches kids. I mean what parents will send their kids to such a person? If that happened in KSA, I am sure alot of commentators here will have a field day.

  87. @Sarah MD, @Radha,

    I have been following the dialogue between the two of you and have found it of interest for in my opinion this clearly depicts the distinctions of thought due to culture. (smile)

  88. @ sarahMD,
    yow are twisting my words, i did not say i praise her, for her dancing. if you go back far enough all i said was in response to your statement that certain women were not “benefitial to society”. so i asked you who is to judge who is and who is not benefitial to society?

    as for your questions , like i said she doesn’t like it, but it does keep her kids in school and no it’s not easy getting an education and btw she was dumped by a foreign male… someone who came here, married,had fun and left with no responsibilities.

    No i wouldn’t tell my daughter to pole dance. by the way she doesn’t pole dance :-) i said she dances .. at a restaurant to some tame music … but i will tell her do not live off the state and definetly do not marry till you are capabale of existing by yourself , and being of means will completely fund my kids education so they don’t come out with loans. however this good fortune doesn’t exist for all. so if she is taking a 2nd job dancing who am i or you to judge. all i repeat is just becase some has a profession that you think is bad doesn’t mean they are not beneficial to society.

    again i’d say end the discussion ( like i said before) your views and mine are not te same. even though we may be of the same profession ( i see an MD beside your name) and as for influencing a child, some comments by so-called moral people on this blog i would never tolerate coming out of my daughters mouth.
    Inthe end all i ask is whatever your views are, whaetever your religion says, whatever your govt promotes showd never be the basis of judging and individual. people do a lot of good and bad based on circumstances anduntil you walk intheir shoes it’s easy to preach ( be good, get an education, get a job etc.,) there are plenty of barriers to many things n lives and each of us tries to live it to the best of out abilities… Judging domeone and calculating their benefit to society is best left to god

  89. These men are not scientists. They have fake titles. They make up crap like this and are believed because the middle eastern world is so racist.

    there are scientists who get millions of dollars grant to find out and proof that camel piss is the greatest medicine in the world. and cures all diseases. Because mohammed said so.
    Even if he never wanted to take the ”medicine” himself.

  90. Bedu,
    Yes I was thinking the same – that West and KSA do not see eye to eye (it was on another thread about this not seeing eye to eye).

    Radha, I am glad that you would not recommend dancing for your daughter to keep food on the table. How I see it is that the money that you eat, wear or live with should be halal (meaning pure and decent). Any other king of money does not give me peace of mind. If I eat with money that was earned from dancing, I will not be comfrotable. But in your view that was money earned – no matter how it was earned. Sorry I just cannot accept that. I know of professional people working in fast food outlets. That is decent hard earned money. Here you find boys selling mineral water by the road side on a hot summer’s day. They quench the thirst of the drivers in the air conditioned cars but they themselves are under the hot sun and more in need of that cold water – but they will spend whole day selling water. That is hard work. You even find some men selling roses to the drivers. :)

  91. The causes of autism are unknown, sadly.
    Inbreeding, marriage among close blood relatives, is a recipe for trouble. The issues caused by this unhealth practive have been documented statistically yet some cultures ignore this.
    One last thing, why do some people assume that ignorance is the only explanation for dislike of an ideology? Could it be that that dislike is based upon knowledge, or even that love and dedication to an ideology could also be a product of ignorance?
    Give em ‘hell, daisy. I can’t – travelling and no computer access.
    J.

  92. @Jay,

    You are missed…hurry up and get to where you have regular internet access!

  93. Thanks, Jay.

    See the Buddhist monuments in Cambodia as well!

    I wish you had a blog where you could share the pictures.

  94. It is always the womans fault. Always.

  95. @sarahMD,
    Good for you, thank god i have no worries about my money being pure and decent. I’m however very particular that i and my family earn money honestly.

    As an urologist i treat men who are not clean and pure :-) so per halal rules i shouldn’t treat ? ..idon’t condone their activity but i’m not put on this world to judge them or paid to judge them.. so in effect the money i make by treating them and maybe enabling their future behavior cannot be termed halal.. but hey like i said to each his own…

  96. aslamu aleykum

    Brother and sister let me tell u something. it doesnt matter a muslim mans or womens married each others.
    But we ourselves muslims we got bad cultures,the best cultures is prophet muhammed to take it,rest of them re bad,except the prophet muhammed one is best.

    Prophet muhammed say: muslims re brothers n sister they can married each others, weather is frm another country. is allow in islam.
    But now this government they dont now anything abt shria law all of them re democratic. Tell me wat the problem if a saudia man to marry foreign muslims womens. If he brings back to his country. Why da government doesnt allow,do prophet muhammed say ,if saudia man to marry mulsims foreign lady not to cum back. i dont know wa da problems with the kings.

  97. @ save the women,

    I strongly protest against the blasphemous remarks you made about the Holy Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) in your comment dated July 31, 2010. We the muslims respect religious figures of all faiths and expect others to do the same. You should be ashamed of yourself for posting such words about the person who is loved and respected more than anything, by 1.7 billion inhabitants of this planet.

    @Moderator…. Please remove the above mentioned comment.

  98. hi! I am a non-saudi who is connected with a saudi with a plan of obtaining permission to marry by next year in shaa Allah. I am hepa b positive and he knows about it beforehand. Alhamdullilah he is very positive with it and he just took necessary vaccines against it and he is also well informed how to protect the children in the future in shaa Allah who are born to a carrier mother. So this automatically will deny his application just in case? :(

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