Saudi Arabia: King Abdullah to Meet with Barak Obama

In just a few days King Abdullah will be in Washington and meeting with US President Barak Obama.  I’m confident it will be a full agenda with not enough time to fully discuss the multitude issues of interest.  Naturally the Middle East Peace Process will be high on the agenda for both leaders.  Iran will be another topic of mutual interest but will goals and objectives be the same between the two leaders?  Efforts against Al Qaeda both within the Kingdom, the Arab Peninsula and elsewhere will always be discussed.  What are the other issues of importance which should be brought up between the two countries and why?

Perhaps King Abdullah could give Obama some advice and guidance on oil.  Maybe he could convince Obama rather than shut off America’s offshore drilling operations, America should build more refineries.  Can he be the one to point out to Obama that leasing America’s offshore equipment to other countries is a guaranteed way of losing the equipment forever?  How many more jobs will be lost by such a decision?

What do you think should be the issues of highest priority for discussion between the two leaders and why?

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54 Responses

  1. Oil and Saudi air-space of course.

    I hope Obama doesn’t bow to Abdullah and shame the US like he did last time in London.

  2. Oh, please…He didn’t shame anyone but Fox News listeners. Many other presidents have bowed as a show of respect and protocal to monarchs. News stations even showed Reagan and Nixon bowing. Bush held hands with him. Don’t be ridiculous.

  3. lol, I’m gonna have to ditto AK on that one

    I don’t know why King Abdullah would be so eager to give advice to the President about oil when it would probably (at least in a small fractional sort of way) impact the Saudi Oil trade. KSA is better off if we keep leasing/losing our drilling stuff.

    I’d definitely like to see Palestine on the top of that list though. How long can Israel keep doing stuff against UN mandate and get away with it!?! It is really frustrating. I don’t like the double standards… Everyone except for Israel has to honor UN decisions. Why don’t they have to play fair?

  4. Also, interestingly, that is one of the few photos I’ve seen of King Abdullah actually grinning. :-D

  5. He did bow very low against the US official protocol and there was an uproar about it. There are videos of his shameful bow on the Internet – just type Obama bows to Saudi King in Google.

    It is shameful for the head of a State to bow and become lowly to another head of State.

    Show of respect should be mutual. Why doesn’t Abdullah bow to any other head of State?

  6. @Daisy,

    You clearly do not know what you are talking about. George Bush bowed to King Abdullah and no one made a big deal about it. Do you forget the pictures of President Bush holding hands with King Abdullah, as per the Saudi custom?

    American presidents have done this for years to kings and queens around the world. These idiots who try to make an issue out of something that is nothing have an irrational hatred of Obama, mostly because he is black and has some Muslims in his extended family.

    The non brainers pushing this issue are the same people pushing the conspiracy theory that Obama is really a secret Muslim and plans to institute Shari’a law in the US.

    If YOU think it is shamefull I suggest you contact the US State Department and demand that they change their diplomatic protocols. To lay this at Obama’s feet shows either ignorance or Obama derrangement syndrome.

  7. As an American I agree with AK, only Fox News watchers were put out about it. I feel no shame.

  8. Daisy: also google “presidents who’ve bowed to Heads of State”…You’ll learn something. Please, only people who’ve hated Obama before he even became president cared..and they were Fox News and Rush Limbaugh followers. The rest of us are proud of him.
    I agree with NeverEver – I am tired of the double standards with Israel, as well..

  9. I don’t think it’s bad manners to be respectful if that is what Obama intended by his actions. It’s only a gesture.

    Money wasn’t mentioned in the post. I don’t know about the US but I remember a couple of years ago when the credit crunch hit Gordon Brown came running to King Abdullah begging for loans – and he got them too. Now that was both shameful and embarrassing. For all the speeches about the Middle East and democracy, etc some governments are happy to come with a begging bowl when they need it.

    I hope Obamas visit strengthens ties and goes towards demolishing the misconceptions of people from both the US and Saudi.

  10. I have made a very simple statement – no head of State should bow to another, Obama certainly broke the US official protocol and show of respect should be mutual – why is it that Obama should bow to Abdullah and Abdullah should not bow back?

    If it is only a matter of showing respect, Abdullah would bow back. But it is more than that – it underlines a hierarchical equation between the person who bows and the other person. That’s why Abdullah doesn’t bow to Obama or to anyone else.

    Why should Abdullah get more respect than any other head of State?

  11. @ Daisy,

    How in the world did Obama shamed the US by bowing to the king (An elder statesman) of Saudi Arabia??!!. Many US presidents have bowed to the Queen of England in the past. Why is this any different, or are you so racist, you can’t see the light. It’s amazing how your hatred for Islam in general and Saudi Arabia in particular shows time and time again. The same agenda, the same venom, are you sure you’re not related to Bill O’Reilly from Fox, I think you should apply for a position there, I am sure you would get the job hands down as his sidekick.

  12. @Daisy,
    You are welcome to your opinion, and here is mine. Perhaps you should stop telling Americans and Saudi’s how/what you think should shame them .

    Perhaps you should focus on your own country’s issues of shame- if you don’t know what they are, I’m sure we can help you, or your own personal shameful behavior constantly displayed in anti-Saudi bigotry.

  13. Well, my country’s head of State doesn’t go around bowing to heads of States no matter how strong they are.

    I have a right to express my impressions of the antics of Obama in front of saudi Arabia just to get oil and Saudi strategic air-space – it matters because the US doesn’t bow to other countries. In any case you have no right to tell me what I should tell others and what I shouldn’t tell them. This is none of your business.

  14. Anonymous Saudi,
    OK, look at the situation this way – the British Queen is much older than Obama, but he didn’t bow to her. Didn’t she deserve respect, if old age was the criteria for showing this “respect?”

    Look at another situation – if Abdullah meets a head of State who is older than him – will he bow to him/her?

    Why this difference? I hope you can see my viewpoint.

  15. @Daisy, I said you had the right to express your opinions- and so do I. It is my business as an American on a public blog when you start telling us what should shame us and what American protocal is.

    That’s great that your heads of state never bow to anyone. So what? Does that make you better or stronger in any way? Maybe they’re just too insecure to do so. Maybe they put too much emphasis on symbolic gestures than of those of substance.

    And has been pointed out to you- the US has bowed to other countries- both this president and others. Apparently it only bothers you if we bow to Saudi- because of all your bigotry against them.

  16. Oh. And President Obama doesn’t need to bow in order to buy oil or use airspace. It seems you are as poorly informed on US-Saudi relations as you are on American protocal.

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  18. Yes, we all know the American need for Saudi oil and air space.

    You are right, may be this time Obama should fall at Abdullah’s feet and lick the ground Abdullah walks on in the White House in full view of the global media – that will greatly enhance the prestige of the US in the world and will show how secure the US is – its head of State can go around licking people’s feet in the world. This is the ideal behaviour for a global power.

    At least your loyalties to the US are greatly suspect because you have left the US years ago and are more loyal to Saudi Arabia – that shows in your stand which really favours Abdullah, not the dignity of the US.

    And don’t be so sure that I can’t become an American citizen in future. You know nothing about me.

  19. @ Daisy,

    Let me reaffirm that US presidents have bowed to Monarch in the past, President Nixon bowed to the Emperor of Japan in the past, so why this should be any different. It’s just gesture of respect, nothing more, nothing less. It’s rather amusing why you’re so irked by the fact that Obama bowed to the king, may I remind you that President Obama Also bowed to the Emperor of Japan, I don’t see you making a fuss about it. Why is it that everything that has to do with Saudi Arabia irk you so much my dear?!!

    And what is this about the usage of Saudi airspace, I do believe that Saudi Arabia is a sovereign State and will not let the US, or any other country use its airspace to attack Iran, no matter how much the Saudi government differ with Iran.

  20. @Daisy,

    You are detatched from reality. Not only on this issue but MANY others.

    Obama did nothing more than what a dozen presidents did before him. Bush held the Saudi King’s hand and kissed him AND bowed to him.

    Neither broke US diplomatic protocol. You keep claiming this but havent provided ONE bit of proof for the claim. US presidents have, and will, bow to many foreign dignitaries, not just the Saudi king. Why? Because unlike your claim, it is part and parcel of US diplomatic practice. Obama, to a large extent does EXACTLY as he is told and instructed by the same career international diplomats and experts in the field of diplomatic protocol and they are the same people who served for President Bush and many of them with President Clinton before him.

    So you are CLEARLY speaking about a subject in which you have minimal knowledge, more to the point, it seems you suffer from the Obama Derangement Syndrome so common amoungst the radical and looney right here in the US. It is irrational and it is based on racism and sectarianism.

    Another issue you have that needs to be addressed is how you consistantly push the idea that relations between Hindus and Muslims in India are some sort of utopian ideal and that Indian Muslims are far more progressive than the Muslims around the rest of the world.

    Sad that I should have to point out some Indian history to you, but it was just some 60 years ago where Indian Muslims and Hindus spilled each other’s blood in MASSIVE torrents. Hundreds of thousands of Muslims and Hindus were butchered by their friends, neighbors and fellow countrymen. India today is still a hotbed of hatred between the communities where semi regular outbursts of religious violence take the lives of a thousand or more at a time.

    Hindu mobs, incited by radical Hindu leaders, attack and commit mass murder against their Muslim co-citizens. Did you forget about the Mumbai riots of 1992-1993 where some 575 Muslims and 250 Hindus were killed in large scale riots? Is that an example of your utopian Indian Muslim and Hindu relations?

    Do you forget that the violence started after mobs of radical Hindus attacked and destroyed the Babri Mosque? Another example of the great relations of Muslims and Hindus in India?

    How about the 2002 Gujarat violence between Muslims and Hindus where over 1,000 people were killed, over 500 places of worship were attacked and damaged, including mosques, temples and dargahs? Another example of this wonderful spirit in India between the Muslims and Hindus?

    There are literally hundreds of incidents since the partition of India which show mass murder and an almost genocical zeal and hatred of Muslims and Hindus against each other. The image you put out here of some wonderful relationship between India Hindus and Muslims is just not true. They might be wonderful friends and neighbors until some incident lights the fire and then these same friends and neighbors will be hacking each other to death and burning each other alive.

    I dont want to leave out Sikhs and Indian Christians which have also been involved in and victim of communal hatred and mass murder in India.

    The fact is that the Muslim and Hindu populations are often just a small incident away from mass murder. Indian Muslims enjoy a VERY low status in Indian society, and this is saying something looking at the completely outdated and unjust caste system of the Hindu religion where lower caste Indians used to be subject to violent attack and even MURDER if their shadows fell upon higher caste Hindus.

    You are completely wrong about the Obama issue and you are completely wrong about the history and standard of relations between Indian Hindus and Muslims. Say what you will, but all someone needs to do is do a quick Google search of “Hindu and Muslims mass murder riots in India” and they’ll see the truth is VERY different than what you are pushing here.

    Sorry, but because a Hindu or a Muslim in India might visit a religious shrine of the other means very little when those same people could be at their house that evening in a fit of religious hatred and murder the entire household, men women and children.

    It is really COMPLETELY out of line for you, as a non US citizen, to be questioning the loyalty of American citizens because they call you out on your complete ignorance of US diplomatic protocol.

    You are ignorant about American diplomatic protocol yet are unafraid to question the loyalty of a citizen to their country because they, unlike yourself, have some knowledge on the issue? You really need to get a clue Daisy.

    No one buys the stuff you are trying to pass off here. You clearly have an extreme amount of hatred and ignorance and you are clearly unafraid to pass it around.

    It is well known here that I have extreme issues with the Saudi government, yet even I do not posses the hatred and vitriolic agenda that you do.

  21. Daisy I cant undrestand why you have such a hate toward saudi arabia , althought our goverments(Iran and saudi arabia) are hostile to each other I have not hate toward saudi goverment and saudi arabia, so undrestanding your hate is difficult for me.about oil I should say all countries need oil , because of that india is third buyer of iranian oil after japan and china.you should be proud of your goverment that buy oil from a theocratic goverment!!!!!!!!he he he :)
    I should add I am fan of obama because he is not obessed with bombing any country out there like fox news watchers.american people should be proud of him.

  22. Abu Sinan thank you for your comment , it was very intresting.

  23. Since the 1990s, the US opened its boarders to millions of Asians to become US citizens and/or green-card holders through the infamous program “diversity,” opening new opportunities for them to realize their dreams that they cannot even dream of in their home country.
    While the US showing this humanistic gesture to every human being, Asians are destroying this value by hoarding on everything that will potentially bring money from gas stations to motels, and seldom one sees in the remotest corner of America, but an Asian sitting there. Working is a virtuous value, but when shutting out other ethnic groups and looking down on them; those racist acts only destroy the US social fabric and harmony of this country, and its national values that the US was built on.
    What is very ostensible in the US public sphere is the humiliating, desperate Asian pandering to Americans citizens of European docents, which shows a very deformed, vacuous picture of a human relationship: A human being with an Asian complexion trying to be an American of European docent.
    Asians are trying so hard and by any mean possible to be European-Americans, and in their attempts, they try to be Americans than those who built America from inside out, bringing their Third World country dirty laundry to America and clashing with every ethnic component of this country. Since the 90s, America is not the same, and soon it will be like any other Third World people cooking the smelly curry in the hotels and defecating in the streets. Those WASP values are gone for good.

  24. Daisy has every right to say what she wants about US government. If she ever had a blog and allow us to comment, we would have the right to say what we want about India. We’ve been discussing many things about Saudi Arabia and its government and some people said things far worse than what Daisy said . Why the double-standards ?

  25. @Daisy,
    Are you trying to look nasty and massively ignorant on purpose? If not, you couldn’t do better if you tried. I never said most of what you claimed I did and you have really no idea about my life or loyalties.
    Whatever.

    Really I think your comment speaks for itself, and says more about you than anything I could add.

  26. Anonymous Saudi,
    You haven’t addressed my simple questions –

    why didn’t Obama bow to the British Queen if this is a “normal” practice?

    Would Abdullah bow to an older head of State?

    What is the logic behind this?

    Yes, I have a problem with Saudi Arabia because Saudi Arabia is trying to spread a hateful version of Islam which does not give space for dissent, free speech and dignity of all humans, regardless of their beliefs.

    I also have a problem with Saudi Arabia because they try to encash their oil power into getting away with all kinds of human rights violations which are normally not allowed to other countries.

    And yes, Saudi air-space is important to the US for controlling the West Asian region, because of the location of Saudi Arabia.

  27. Abu Sinan,
    Since you have repeated your long comment to me about Hindu-Muslim relations on another post, I’m posting a reply here.

    First, I don’t see how Hindu-Muslim relations are related to Obama bowing to Saudi king.

    Second, your comment shows a superficial knowledge of Indian history. During the Partition riots, not only the Muslims but the Hindus and Sikhs were also killed. Next, the communal tension in India, as you have noted, has grown since partition – in fact it started in the Colonial period. Before the Colonial period there was not a single instance of Hindu-Muslim conflict in India, despite the one thousand years of rule by Muslim rulers in the sub-continent.

    If you make an indepth study of Indian history, you’ll realise that this communal conflict is directly linked to the strategies of the British rulers. Besides, it has never had a religious basis – it has always been politically motivated. If the British hadn’t played their games and if today the Indian politicians – Hindu as well as Muslims – don’t play their games, there will be no Hindu-Muslim conflict in India only on the basis of religion. These conflicts have complex political dynamics associated with them.

    I stand by my statement that Indian Muslims are much more sensible and adjusting in their dealings with people from other religions than I have seen people on these Saudis blogs.

    Now, about Obama bowing to Japanese king as well, if it is a normal practice, why not to the British Queen?

    Is Elizabeth not old enough?

    There are different dynamics involved in why he bows to someone and why he doesn’t bow to someone. We shouldn’t lump all of these incidents together.

    I have simply said all heads of State should get and receive equal respect from each other and it doesn’t appear right if one person bows to another in an official situation. I don’t see why this comment should generate so much of heated reaction from people here. I don’t see what is wrong in what I am saying – isn’t this a democratic viewpoint?

    At least this kind of reaction shows one thing – all people who subscribe to the orthodox version of Islam, secretly support the idea of global Jihad. They may not indulge in active terrorism, but they intellectually support the idea that the Saudi ruler should rule over the world and other rulers – even their own countries’ rulers – should bow to the Saudi monarch. For them global Jihad and the Saudi dominance are dearer than the sovereignty of their own country.

    And I don’t see how you – who subscribe to the uncivilised ideology that half of the people of this world are not humans because they don’t follow an Abrahamic religion, should talk about Hindu-Muslim problems.

    If you can ever dissociate yourself from this uncivilised ideology, you can discuss with me the Hindu-Muslim problems of India. Till then, I am not going to have any kind of discussion with you. If you don’t consider me a human being, I don’t consider you worthy of discussion.

  28. @ Daisy,
    Your opinion on what world leaders should do is not what made people angry. It was your telling Americans what they should be ashamed of- it was your claiming to know things about protocal that you don’t know and your nasty attitude that got peoples backs up.

    You said :
    “At least this kind of reaction shows one thing – all people who subscribe to the orthodox version of Islam, secretly support the idea of global Jihad. They may not indulge in active terrorism, but they intellectually support the idea that the Saudi ruler should rule over the world and other rulers – even their own countries’ rulers – should bow to the Saudi monarch. For them global Jihad and the Saudi dominance are dearer than the sovereignty of their own country.”

    Honestly…are you high? That comment made no sense whatsoever.

  29. @Daisy,

    It would seem you have a problem US diplomatic practices. As you are NOT an American citizen it is purely academic on your part. Your opinion doesnt matter. Not only that, it is based on PURE ignorance. So think what you will with your Obama Derangement Syndrome.

    As to why King Abd’Allah and not Queen Elizabeth it is a rather simple answer that you just seem unable to grasp. It is because diplomatic protocal, for ALL American presidents, does NOT call for it.

    How are you NOT able to understand that? Has your Obama Derangement Syndrome caused you to be unable to function rationally?

    As to Muslim and Hindu history in India, it has been murderous since the very begining. That is the VERY case that many Hindus make, that Muslims invaded and ruled by force. You can blame all of your issues on colonialism, but that doesnt NOT explain the violence before the British came and it does NOT explain the violence 60 years after they left.

    Plain and simple there is a LARGE pool of hatred between the various religions in India that on a regular basis shows itself in the mass blood letting we see on a VERY regular basis.

    Dont you see the irony in you talking about how better adjusting Indian Muslims are when they are a regular part and victim of communal mass murders? I fail to see why it matters that a Muslim might go to a Hindu shrine when him and his ancestors have partaken in regular blood letting against their Hindu and Sikh neighbors.

    All of this utopian activity doesnt matter much when your entire family is slaughtered because they are the wrong religion.

    It also doesnt change that Hinduism, through it’s class system, is one of the most backward religions in the world. Imagine the idea that simply based on someone’s birth that they are “untouchable”. A religion where the upper class at one time would MURDER lower caste citizens if their shadows fell on them!

    Sorry, but when you are a part of THAT, when YOUR belief system ordains the idea that simply because of an accident of birth someone is lower than someone else…………….you have ZERO standing to talk about someone else’s religion.

    I have known more than a few former Hindus who left that religion because of the opppression that they face from Hindu society just because they happened to be born to the wrong family. It is kind of like slavery or apartheid. Simply because of what colour you were born or what family you were born into you are viewed as low class.

    This is a part of your belief system Daisy. Sorry, but I havent run into anything in Islam, Judaism or Christianity that is as problematic as that!

    I dont expect people here to believe me. All they need to do is to do a quick search on the internet about relations, both current and historic, between Muslims and Hindus in India.

    India, when it comes to relations between the religious groups, is one of the WORST examples to point to. It is NOT an example that ANY country should follow. Unless, of course, one doesnt mind regular mass murders in their country, neighbors murdering neighbors on a regular basis.

    THAT is what you are trying to pass off as progressive. It doesnt work. Muslims are lower than Dalits to Hindus, and the mass violence shown on a regular basis is clear proof of it.

  30. I hope she would spew those trivial ideas in America. I bet she wont; she rather looks civil before those real Americans to impress them. We know here type; they are working around us. This woman will bow for any one in the world that has money, and once she gets it, GOD (Islamic-Judaic-Christian God) only knows what she will do. Hint, The relationship between Cattle and Hinduism believers.

  31. @Daisy,

    I do see your point and to be frank I initially was quite irked to see Obama give that deep bow but it was a momentary response (I feel the same way when I see non-Brits bow to whatever nobility attends Wimbledon) since I remembered Bush holding hands with the sheik. This is part of diplomatic protocols aimed towards Saudi Arabia and as such Obama was only following the rules so the issue does not lie with him. The question is when and why was this protocol instituted?. It would be an interesting question to have answered. Carol, would you be able to answer this question since you have a diplomatic background to draw upon?.

    I don’t see it as a big deal as I believe it’s a symbolic gesture. The balance of power is so skewed that a bow doesn’t do much to counter that. Both people in that picture know who pulls the strings.

    @Abu Sinan

    I don’t think Obama Derangement Sydrome applies to Daisy at all. That applies to people who find wrong with Obama whatever he does (he is a socialist cause of health care reform, he is a fascist cause of financial reform, he’s muslim even though he is a self-professed christian, he doesn’t care cause he didn’t show any emotion re the BP spill, no he is an angry black man cause he did show emotion, etc….). That label applies to people who have demonstrated a pattern of irrational, unreasonable and manipulative behaviour where Obama is concerned. That hardly applies to Daisy who has proven, from past comments, to be a rational, reasonable and astute person.

  32. Daisy has every right to say what she wants about US government. If she ever had a blog and allow us to comment, we would have the right to say what we want about India. We’ve been discussing many things about Saudi Arabia and its government and some people said things far worse than what Daisy said . Why the double-standards ?

  33. With all respect, rather than debate on the protocol of bowing, can we get the dialogue back on track to what are the important issues which should be covered when the two leaders meet and why….

    Mother Hen Bedu

  34. Yes Daisy does. And we all have the right to respond. I’m not upset about what she said about the US Government. I’m upset because she tried to tell Americans what should shame them. Her opinion, but she can’t expect an American to like an outsider telling them what should shame them or not. And then she talks about how it was against protocal when she doesn’t know what the protocal even is. And so when we disagree she then misstates what we say- turning it into something that wasn’t said at all and attacks. On top of that- she has a long history of Saudi-bashing on this and other blogs.

    I assure you. No double standard here. I don’t like ANYONE who does that to me.

  35. Thank you Carol. I posted that last- before your post. I’ll stay on track.

  36. AnonCal…Daisy does have a blog (as she has said on other blogs)…but she only invites specially selected individuals to her inner sanctum. Her freedom of speech displayed throughout the web…does not apply to her own blog I guess.

    Otherwise…she should invite all of us here to her blog…then we can leave this blog for discussions about Saudi and related issues…and then mosey on over to hers to discuss Hindu/Muslim relations…or lack there of…or whatever she discusses there.

    Daisy???

  37. As a Saudi national, I am looking forward for this meeting between the two heads of state, who continued to strengthen that exemplar international relationship that has been strongly forged between the two countries for decades and stood against the test of times.
    What I would like to see discussed between those leaders: (1) more military cooperation that includes training, military hardware trade and manufacturing; (2) cultural cooperation, involving the expansion educational programs in the areas of scientific institutions between similar areas across the board, graduate and undergraduate education, and vocational training and technical skills developments in all areas (e. g.; formal education teaching methods, criminal justice, comparative court jurisprudence systems, and the likes; (3) youth exchange programs; (4) strategic economic programs that merges existing companies and/or establish new ones; and (5) establishing active public cultural programs that introduce Saudi-American traditions and values to both public sides. I am very optimistic and I believe that this meeting will be forthcoming and productive for both countries. Knock on wood.

  38. I have discerned over the course of the years that one is to grow, develop, reach self-content, and expand new mental horizons and discover new personal frontiers that appeared once impossible, is to hang around those who are free and confident, and avoid those who are gloomy and negative as a result of feeling inferior in any area of their character. They will never guide anyone to areas of possibilities and hopes, instead, they will drag their associates to endless tumultuous dark zones, and by the time they get rid of their inferior fixations and reach a degree of self-satisfaction, its too late to give. Giving is an essential component of a FEREE SPIRIT that this woman will never know. She was gracefully invited to the land of the FREE and abused everything that this land stands for.
    I don’t want to be invited to her dark world, neither I wish it for any one.

  39. I have just gotten to the thread and because I didn’t know what the protocol is I went on a search. (admittedly brief-20 mins or so). From the NY Times:

    It seems that the protocol for a President is that he has two choices in greeting:

    He can shake hands OR he can give a cursory bow, really more of a nod while keeping eye contact. He is not supposed to do both at the same time.

    I could find only this on Obama:

    He deeply bowed to the Emperor of Japan and he deeply bowed to the Saudi King. He did not bow to the Queen of England and instead gave her a HEARTY handshake which caused a minor scandal in England for HIS lack of protocol to a Monarch and probably amused the Queen.

    It seems the issue is not the bow itself, but the obsequiousness of the bow. Ie: it is OK (within protocol) to bow with a head nod but not at such a deep and excessive bend.

    I had a site with photos of several presidents doing the head bow (not full body bow like Obama) including Eisenhower, but I mistakenly closed it and can’t find it but will keep looking. If I find it I will post.

  40. Sorry carol…

    Posted before seeing your request.

  41. At the start of Mr. Obama presidency, the relationship between the United States and the Islamic World was in its lowest condition. The President made a visit to several Muslim countries, starting with Saudi Arabia. This visit was very politically calculated to improve the relationship between the US and the Muslim populations. Believing that Saudi Arabia is the cradle of Islam and its leadership is it symbol, the President made that political gesture of bowing slightly to the symbol of Islam to show its followers that America respects Islam and it does not harbor any ill intentions against it. And that’s that. Believe me neither the President nor the King wanted that bow.
    Now, whether Hindus are superior to Muslims in India, to Most people of the world Hindus and Muslims are both Indians. Muslims specifically around the world view Hindus as worthless creatures. When a Hindu is accidentally killed, the monetary compensation to his/her family is 1/100 of that paid to a Muslim Indian family. This is a worthless compensation, and I don’t ascribe to this view, but it does exist even among Muslim Indians that are dominated by majority Hindu Indians who exercise the idea of superiority over them. Muslim once ruled those Hindu Indians and treated them with a little dignity, but I wonder what Muslim Indians would regards Hindus if they were the majority, especially that Hindus could not find something decent to worship but a feasets of a cow.
    History says that Hindus were dropping themselves at the feet of the English soldiers kissing their feet, and their servitude was to the extent that a Hindu man showers and washes the creamy, soft body of an English lady without getting an erection. The English were smart enough not to hire Muslims for such a job. Not to mention that Muslim Indians have enough pride to chase the colonial English rule out of India.

  42. Anonymous Cal,
    Thanks!

    Oby,
    Thanks for that sound research.

    Abdur-Rahman al-Zubayyan,
    You should not misrepresent facts about India if you don’t know the Indian system. Compensation for accidents etc in India are equal to all people irrespective of religion or any other category. Differential compensations based on religion is a character of Saudi Arabia, with non-Muslims getting less than Muslims and perhaps Indian Muslims getting less than Arab ones – another reason why I don’t like Saudi Arabia.

    Hatred for Hindus across the world is being spread by the Arab Muslims who treat Hindus as non-human beings because they will not accept Islam. I find nothing more abhorrent and hateful than this.

    Coolred,
    If you can find my blog and reach there, you are welcome to comment whatever you like related to the topic as long as you respect other people’s dignity as human beings. I don’t see why I should go around asking people to come to my blog. Carol and John and even you don’t go around asking people to come to your blog – we all have found these blogs on our own and have commented here on our own. It’s the same in my case. I don’t see why that’s a restriction on freedom on speech when it’s not so in the case of Carol, John and you.

    Some people expressed a desire to come to my blog and I sent them the link. If I had believed in restriction on speech I wouldn’t have sent them the link.

    If I clearly don’t like someone for whatever reasons, I do have the right not to invite that person on my blog – as all of you having a blog do. This is not a restriction on speech.

  43. OK back to the topic.

    I feel Abdullah’s visit is a follow-up result of Hilary’s visit to Saudi Arabia some time back.

    I also feel that apart from oil, this will result in the US investment in establishing industries on the Saudi soil, before the oil runs out.

    How much those industries will succeed remains to be seen.

  44. Madelanas,
    I saw your comment later. Thanks for a very balanced perspective.

  45. @Abdulrahman,

    I appreciate your comment from a Saudi perspective on desired agenda, goals and outcomes for the meeting between the two leaders. I think that each point cited is a valid and important issue for the benefit of both countries.

  46. whatever they discuss or don’t discuss i hope they hit the topics of peace and economy first. Stable sconomy helps towards peace and peace renders the area stable , hence helping people prosper.

    Other issues like education etc., can be dealt with next.
    There’s plenty of other groups dealing with cross cultural interactions , interfaith etc., intheir limited time i hope the heads of both countries, discuss something productive.

    As for diffrenecs in religion, . all hearts irrespective of religion beats the same , blood is the same color & actually of similar composition and by looking at the organs one cannot tell if it’s a muslim.christian/hindu on the table. until such time i can tell the difference by looking inside our bodies i don’t belive any one religion superior to another .
    All these fights are man made & serve no useful purpose.
    as for past fights betw religions whatever has happened is done, history should only be looked at for lessons not to dissect. unless we take religion out of everyday living, we’re going to have issues, keep religion personal , between you & god adn your family is my new slogan. :-)

  47. My sincere wish is that the discussions result in tangible actions of mutual interests and gains.

  48. I don’t see any role for Saudi Arabia to play in the conflict between the Israelis and the Palestinians. The Saudis brought together the fighting Palestinian factions in Mecca and both made an oath to reconcile and disregard their differences for the good of their people. Both Palestinian factions willingly and eagerly broke their oath once they left the Saudi airspace for the sake of the highest bidders. Saudi Arabia, as a result, lost face, and as usual, picked up the tap.
    Saudi Arabia shouldn’t squander its good-will and scarce resources for unappreciative groups of people, and should focus on the development of its people and country, and safeguard its national security with the partnership of the US. If Iran attacks Saudi Arabia, God forbids, no Arab country will rush to its rescue and those very people that Saudi Arabia is constantly helping will be cheering the attacks like they did when Saddam attacked Saudi cities with ballistic missiles.
    While the Palestinians beseech Gulf countries in the name of Arabism for financial support, they (authority and people) negligent this support when they receive it and insist on that they got it out of their wit, because Gulf countries are not smart enough (stupid). Palestinians on every level with shamelessly affront Gulf people by saying to their faces and the entire world that, no body is supporting us, the roof over our heads, the food on our table, and the education we receive in every renown university in almost ever Western country is out of our hard work.
    To them, appearing self-dependent, intelligent, and good fighters, is an aura that makes up for their ill selfish national character that thrives on betrayal to their children, parents, family, and country. Any wrong doing must be projected on the Arabs, specifically Saudi Arabia and other Gulf countries, they are the ones who give almost limitless financial support at anytime without any condition, and stupidly pulling away the development plates of its people and giving it to them.
    The Palestinians made the Oslo peace agreement with Israel without having the courteousy or decency to consult with Saudi Arabia when they saw their interests was to do so, and when nothing materialized from this agreement and when everything that they have done throughout their conflict points to their hilarious stupidity, they blamed Saudi Arabia for every wrong doing and fault they have done.
    The Saudi interests should be futuristic: Building its people. Once the oil runs out, no one will be at its doorsteps calling in the name of Arabism for its support, and no one will render any support to her like several decades ago when oil was still underneath the sand dunes.

  49. Abdulrahman Al-Zuhayyan I become a little upset when you said if Iran attack saudi arabia:( Iran has not invaded a country in last 100 years . I am sorry that false fear that exist between muslims which is fueled by western countries only and only benefit western economies.I invite you to read this article :
    http://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/us-nato-fuel-new-arms-race-in-the-middle-east-1
    Dear carol I read an article about meeting of two head state , I thought It would be good to share It in this blog: http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/06/28/i_dont_want_to_hold_your_hand?page=full
    thank you

  50. Your comment is an insult to the intelligence of any human being with sound faculties. Initially, when I read your comment, I was going to disregard it, but leaning on objectivity that I trained myself to exercise when I am confronted with an idea that is totally against the rational senses, I said to myself, wait a minute and read these links, may be this woman has a point.
    Those articles on arm race in the Arabian Gulf, and I Don’t Want to You to Hold My Hand, only validated, and affirmed my basic instincts that your comment is only a hot air in the cloudy skies of Iran.
    First, neither Saudi Arabia and The Islamic Republic of Iran nor any country in the world can out smart Americans. The Americans can make drastic mistakes with heavy consequences like they did in their primary management of the wars on Iraq and Afghanistan, but they have the flexibility, endurance, and the willingness to listen, observe, and learn from their mistakes and turn everything to their advantages. Those qualities and luxuries are only available to superpowers, specifically the US to a large measure.
    Second, the US does not play the music of “isms” (Arabism, Islamism, Capitalism, Communism, etc); this country on plays and dances to the music of the American interests. If the US see that her interests with Iran, Saudi Arabia will be cut loose and wont be its allay. Iran is a fragile country invested with geographical, ethnic, and natural resources ills, coupled with internal and external problems with the world community. The Iranian regime is fully aware of its ills. So, the best way to relieve some of the pressure is to export its ills to the outside world to divert the local attention from the reality of its strategic objective, which is invading the Arabian Gulf country that holds the largest oil reserves in the world, compensating for Iran’s depleting oil resources. By doing so, the Iranians are stepping n the toes of the US interests. That is a big no no baby. Iran has imperialistic intentions and with the oil of the Arabian Gulf; it threatens the US and the Western World, and probably the entire world. Remember Saddam.
    Third, I whole-heartedly hope that Iran does not invade any country of the Arabian Gulf. The Iranian may do damage here and there, but those damages can be fixed quickly, but Iran will go back to the stone age, and Iran will not be the same as it is now, with the entire world breathing the sigh of relief that they goy rid of Iran, like they got rid of Saddam. This neighboring and clear example of what would happen to Iran.
    Fourth, I hope that Iran wont be embolden by her success in Iraq and invade any Arabian Gulf country. We all watched the Iranian military maneuvers in the Arabian Gulf. Go back and see it, and then compare it to how the US military exercises and maneuvers.
    Fifth, I don’t believe in the Islamism and Arabism emotional appeals that is used by the Iranian regime to numb the Arab populations from their real intentions. Having double intentions (interior and exterior intentions) is a Shiat basic tenet that it taught to its believers in dealing with non-Shiat, honest people, which I regard as a conning practice and I don’t have respect for, so please don’t sell Islamism to me.

  51. Abdulrahman A. Al-Zuhayyan, I am surprised with your comment , I wrote a 2 sentences and you made so many assumption about me , from where you know those stuff about me.
    these articles are not written by me if you think FP article is insulting, you are free to leave a comment in their site , no need to scream on me.
    I dont think US goverment make mistake , because they are responsible for every cent they consume from money of tax payers, but saudi govermnt or iranian goverment do anything they want, they treat with oil money like family inheritance so they feel free to spend milions of dollar on enrichment uraniom or buying any weapon western contries produce.this is reality and no one can deny it.
    I dont know how you measure success, losting near 1 milion people and endless disable people is not success,after so many suffering and after near 20 years of war , argument toward Arvand rud(Shatt al-Arab) is exist. you call it success?
    I never watch Iranian military maneuvers or US military ,no need to watch ,a 10 years old shool child in Iran know that iranian army cant confront US giant navals and its head to toe armed neigbour countries.so iran never attack any country.it seems you waste too much time watching news about iran.
    I should say no head state in this region is immune to destiny of saddam and it is not limited to iranian goverment.
    I dont sell something to you , I want to say fear of iran is illusion and US goverment love this illusion.
    in the the end I should add I respect to you and your ideas and your beliefs because teaching of shiia(our goverment is not representative of it) is respecting all people no matter what is their idea even those who dont respect our ideas and I am trying to be a good follower of my faith.
    thank you and have a good day

  52. I’d like to see Palestine be at the top of the list for a change. What can President Obama do to help stop the suffering of the women and children on both sides. We need Americans, as well as our allies overseas, to see that we are the ones in control of our own country. Support other countries that need it? Of course. But, within reason.

  53. Saudi Arabia and the United States are the firsts on the top of the list of countries that extend humanitarian aids to impoverished and needy countries, especially to what so called the Palestinian Authority and people. However, Saudi Arabia and the United States are the most hated (an intense word for dislike) by Palestinians.
    The humanitarian aids come mostly in the form of million of dollars in cash and most people don’t see the green/dollar, and that points out to a problem in the delivery, handling, and distribution mechanism of that cash on people.
    One wonders how most Palestinian officials and non-officials could afford expensive penthouses in major cities of the world.
    Another problem with the idea of humanitarian aids to Palestinians is that they have been used to receive aids in myriad forms, even in the form of giving away grades to them in formal education and universities, for more than (60) years, and, now, they are expecting aids when they ask for it and at any time.
    Most Palestinians rarely extends financial assistance to their own kin, despite most of them are working all over the world and hold decent jobs and own private businesses.

  54. Everywhere Muslim live, they are at war with their neighbors and blame the other side. Muslims make war against Hindus in India and blame the Hindus. Muslims make war against Christians in the Philippines and blame the Christians. Muslims make war against Christians in Nigeria and blame the Christians. Muslims make war against animists in southern Sudan and blame the animists. Muslims make war against
    Coptic Christians in Egypt and blame the Copts. Muslims make war against atheists in Russia and blame the Russians. Muslims make war against Israel and blame the Jews. Muslims make war against Christians in Timor and blame the Christians. Muslims attack everyone and when the others fight back, they cry about Islamophobia. It is too much to hope Muslims will ever stop attacking everyone around them. But couldn’t they at least shut up and stop the taqqiyah (lying prescribed by the Koran)?

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