I am sharing an experience which happened to me the first year I arrived in Saudi Arabia. I am sharing it in the hopes that it will benefit other expat women who have chosen to work in the Kingdom. Due to the traditions and culture of Saudi Arabia, it is not only the Saudis who are segregated. Unless an expat lives on a western compound in most cases expat housing from sponsors will also enforce segregation. Groups of women may share a villa or an apartment and will likely be located in a “womens only section of buildings” and the same would apply to male expat workers in that the men would likely share housing too. There are also more expat men who have chosen to come to the Kingdom to work than expat women. A lot of the men are working in Saudi while their families have remained in the home country. Many of these expats, both male and female, miss mixed unsegregated company. If they work in a large institution or facility such as a hospital, there are usually many opportunities for male and female expats to make friends or get to know one another.
I was working in a large Saudi institution when I first arrived in Saudi. I was hired as a local hire since I was already in the Kingdom and the spouse of a Saudi. In fact, it was quite nice as my husband would drop me off and pick me up each day since our work locations were less than ten minutes apart from each other. I enjoyed those times when we would quietly catch up with each other in the car.
One day when I was working I had a surprise. I had a private office and when working on anything time sensitive I would simply shut the door for privacy. That particular day there was a knock on my door and before I could say ‘come in’ the door was opened and a well-dressed Sudanese man entered my office. We literally looked at each other in surprise as I had no clue who he was and by the look on his face, he was not expecting me either. He then asks me where was this certain woman. I explained she no longer at the institution, that I had replaced her. Could I help him? (Which I thought was a natural question to ask…) He then wanted to know if I were British and I hesitatingly told him ‘no.’ His next response was that it really didn’t matter. I sat quietly wondering what was going on and preparing myself to ask him to leave. He then said “So, (she) is really gone?” “Yes” I said “exit only.” His next quip was “Well that’s too bad. You know she and I had an arrangement since we were both single and would “help” other. Would you like to replace her?” It took me two seconds to sputter out “Get out of my office right now or I am calling security.” He actually had the gall to say “I didn’t mean to offend you. Many expats get together like this.” I stood up with the phone in my hand, pointing at the door “Out NOW.” He was mumbling about not intending to upset me so much as he left.
I told a colleague what happened and asked if this was really typical behavior or not. She did confirm that there were various workers, male and female, who made arrangements to get together from time to time. I also learned that all who had preceded me in the position I held had all been single expat women.
If such an incident happens to a woman, she should be very clear the behavior and request is inappropriate and will not be tolerated. Although the man did leave my office I still chose to write a report for the institutes security department so it would be on record especially if this man became a nuisance and harassed or propositioned other female workers. Even if a Saudi male were to approach an expat female with inappropriate behavior, it should not be tolerated or accepted. A woman should not be fearful or timid to both say “no” and report such incidents.
Filed under: culture, gender, relationships, Saudi Arabia, Saudi culture, Saudi customs, Saudi education, Saudi Living, travel, Uncategorized Tagged: | culture, culture shock, customs, gender, gender issues, KSA, Relationship, Saudi, Saudi Arabia, Saudi customs, travel
Hi ! Interesting post . I worked for a while here in Tripoli and had a few “indirect ” propositions , but nothing as bold as what you experienced . It seems to just go with the territory of being a foreigner in a Muslim country said to say .
I too am married to a Arab , a Libyan . This could happen here just walking down a crowded street here . My friend has flashers all the time . I have noticed that since the advent of more foreign influence is introduced here , things are laxer than they used to be .
Welcome On the Edge and thanks for commenting and sharing your experiences.
That was quite brave of you Carol! I would have got scared. You are right, such incidents should be handled firmly and reported.
Carol,
You are very brave, it took me a minute to realize what you were referring to. And I have to ask are you sure thats what he meant? It just seems strange. Are you saying he wanted to have sex there in your office? Call me crazy but that just seems insane!
I also wanted to tell you that I am praying for you. I have been reading your blog for a long time but never commented. I have been so shaken up over the news of you and your husband that I simply couldnt comment, I guess Im a wimp. You are so wonderful, lovely and gorgeous with your new look. I may even be taking on the same look as I am awaiting some scary results as I write. Carol could I write to you personally? I have a very sensitive issue and I feel like you are the only one who could advise me. Please email me at the above address if you are feeling up to it.
You have way more people out there that love you than you could possibly know. Its funny how often your name comes up in real life situations!
With much love, UmMuhammad
hahahah !
u know,? you have a good understanding enough. …i like what u believe ‘ If such an incident happens to a woman, she should be very clear the behavior and request is inappropriate and will not be tolerated’
i love a women to be tough and don’t be tolerated with these kind of scum of pp… also, i don’t think i need to tell you that is not such a saudi man cus u have lived a while in Saudi Arabia …but there lots of those who of curse retarded
Interesting post …
We could also add that when it comes to sexual harassment; most, if not all, of Saudi private businesses (where male and female may have the chance to work together) seriously lack clear sexual harassment policies!
You are so right. So many women are not used to the country or culture remain silent when they are Sexually harrassed, When in fact they shoul be very vocal.
Saudi’s will not tolerate that type of behavior if it is made public.
@UmMuhammad – No…he was not suggesting sex in the office but was insinuating forming an alliance which would lead to carefully planned get togethers (this I learned when asking colleagues).
I guess it simply goes to show that people with differing outlooks and views will go long strides to try to get what they seek regardless of where they are and the circumstances they’d face if caught.
And of course you can email me directly at admin@americanbedu.com
Thank you for your kind words of comfort and support.
@Tominoman – you are so right that Saudis will not tolerate such actions at all and neither should any woman.
Over the years I’ve met many Canadian expats who have or are working in Saudi. The stories I hear of their behaviour on the compounds makes me understand this Sudanese man thinking all are like that. I’ve heard of such wild parties, drinking, and goings on inside the compounds that it makes my head spin. Craziness!!!
what??? he was insinuating forming an alliance which would lead to carefully planned get together.
How a person varmint!
my story is somewhat related hope u don’t mind me sharing bedu:
i went shopping early one a.m. to buy something quickly from the store Sama’ on olaya. i asked my child to stay in the car with the driver and his wife. i went upstairs and headed for the ladies area. got a bit distracted by the shoes
then noticed that a man was near me in the same area which i thought a bit odd but dismissed it thinking he was buying for a female relative.
i realized i was running late and quickly went to the section i needed. i grabbed what i wanted and turned around so quickly i literally ran into that same man i had seen moments earlier. i thought my goodness, why was he so close to me? he then asked me for size XXL in a blouse he pointed to. i told him i had no idea and IGNORANTLY began sorting through the rack to assist him. he then walked behind me and grabbed me firmly and i mean FIRMLY on my rear! i screamed, dropped what i had in my hands and ran for the stairs to find a sales clerk.
i found the clerk, blurted out what had happened while the jerk who grabbed me was quickly walking down the stairs! the sales clerk actually let him out the door! they didn’t even try to catch him! unfortunately the security guard usually on duty was absent that day. just my luck! and i honestly believe they just took one look at him wearing his saudi attire, assumed he was a saudi untouchable and let him go!
later when i told my hubby what happened he said the man thought i gave him a green light when i actually spoke to him. and based on my broken arabic he assumed i was a foreigner and willing to mess about!
this actually made me quite sad in the end because i was completely covered, niqab, gloves and all! just goes to show it doesn’t matter what the woman wears really, if a man wants to harass a lady he just will regardless!
Oh Carol! You are too polite.
I would have “helped” him out, alright. Just one perfect, front kick to the groin and he would never have think about sex again. LOL.
I think it is so amusing how many American converts glorify Muslim countries…..as if all the stuff that happens here doesn’t happen there. All the same things are done over there, just more covertly. Well, except in this case; that episode certainly doesn’t sound “covert” or discreet at all.
The incident certainly reinforces the “don’t assume” anything
sabiwabi, i assure you it isn’t amusing in the slightest how some reverts expect so much from muslim countries.
i suppose i was lucky in that i had a good saudi friend clue me in on things before i came to ksa so i kept my expectations reasonable. but believe me it is very sad, not amusing to see a revert who thinks so highly of a muslim country have their heart broken and faith shattered because of their unrealistic expectations of a particular country.
really how can we blame them when the majority of what is in most books for reverts are only the positives of migrating to muslim countries, the negatives tucked neatly away. and besides, i think it’s just humanistic really to want to have a better place to go and practice a new way of life, ie islam and to want to believe a muslim country is some sort of utopia.
bedu, i do enjoy your blog very much and hope you are feeling better these days……..
Carol what a bizarre story! Well done!
UmmTiflain, what an absolutely horrible experience for you! I am very sorry this had to happen to you.
Sabiwabi, I fully agree with your tactics. A knee, or when further away a kick, in the right place is the most perfect educational action in these circumstances.
geeeeee, I am at a loss for words again…
What a story… I really am not sure if I could be as brave as Carol or Ummtiflain, I guess I will be scared and runaway myself….grrrrr…
Thanks Aafke,
Great minds think alike.
LOL.
Jill, if you just run away, he wouldn’t learn a thing. You have to show them, eh-hem, the ERROR of their ways. Preferably through the employment of martial arts. I think every woman should have basic self defense training. Sure, with Carol, it was just verbal harrassment, but it could very easily (as per some other comments) gotten to the physical level. When a man says that kind of crap to you, the time for talking is over. Just my opinion.
It really sickens me that men can think so little of women over there, that they can even imagine to utter this kind of crap (but then again it seems some women over there have “gone along” with it). In the USA, if a man propositions you like that, it would be grounds for termination, instantly. But over there, I guess “hooking up” and asking for sex outright is the norm? What a weird reality that must be. To live in a ultra-conservative society and yet, getting propositioned for sex right and left.
What a world we live in!
And Aafke, I just noticed you made the banner!
I thought I recognized that style. Love it! Great job!
sabiwabi thanks.
I agree (again) all girls should be enrolled into martial arts classes by 6 years old. The good thing about real martial arts is that brains count more than muscle, so women can become very good at it.
Dear Carol,
First of all, what a story!! I can’t believe how disturbingly bold this man was! SHEEESH!! I wouldn’t be able to look at him again..
Second of all, you rock this new look Carol
am lovin’ it..
Third of all, a question: I was intending to ask mom to buy me a bunch of pepper sprays from the US with her before she returns to Saudi. I’d always carried it around with me back in the US (as a key chain) and felt relatively safe although never really used it.
Do you know if bringing them over (not in the carry-on luggage) would be a problem at the Saudi borders?
Thank you and God bless..
Peace
@Peace Seeker,
Again, I think because the man had expected the person he knew to be in the office instead of me and then realized that she had been replaced by another westerner, he thought 2 plus 2 would add up equally…but instead….he was so wrong!
You ask a good question about pepper spray. I am not sure. Maybe some one else can advise?
As a single woman who has lived in China, Korea and Turkey I could also add hilarious but also sad commentary on my experience as a woman… inIstanbul it got so bad it was one reason why I left.
I taught late at night business English and would walk home which was near to the school. If i was alone and it was past 9pm I would have men follow me in their cars. (Being a tall redhead is like a beacon, I swear!) Men followed me on foot and one tried to scramble into my building and I had to slam the door on him…. I had flashers, stalkers,… I just got so angry that my freedom of movement equated sexual easiness…
It would seem that at least in the Kingdom a woman’s safety is taken seriously? In Turkey when I would recount these stories which were scary and not only scary… very offensive… I was met with a chuckle, a gleam in the eye and a “boys will be boys attitude”.
Back in the States it is so nice to be able to go to a cafe or eat out alone and not have some man come up to me with his brain in his pants…….it took me a long time to understand that smiling at a man to him meant an invitation… but I always smile it is who I am. Just because I smile at you because maybe you said something nice, or growing up I was told it is the polite thing to do… is not an invitation…
If I wanted you I would say, “I want you.” therefore there is no misunderstanding about my intent
Jenna, forget it, I have read stories by Saudi women how they got harrased when carrying the shopping, a baby and a toddler by the hand, fully veiled and gloved too!
One woman told here at Bedu how she got harassed and followed by Saudi men while 9 months pregnant!
Some other woman told how she got followed while walking to the grocer’s and flashed as well.
No, in a ”Man’s world” men can misbehave to women anyway they like. The more leeway given to men the worse their behaviour, the worse the harrassment of women.
It’s all the women’s fault anyway.
But now I am wondering…which men have attempted to harass women more in Saudi? For example, I think more expat men think it is okay to harass another expat woman. Young Saudi guys just like to try and feel their oats and have contact with any woman. But if there were data about whether more Saudi men attempted to harass women in KSA or expat men….I really don’t know what the stats would show.
Interesting… one thing is clear: Men are BAD!!!!!
:mregreen: 
It is true… when I lived in Korea I was so young and innocent and I saw that all the US military men who had wives and children at home were looking for prostitutes and extra side girl friends… really it broke my heart to understand that for many (most) men they are only good because they have to be and the moment there are no rules they do whatever they like.
It just makes me really sad….
Yes….I noticed some of that in Iraq too sadly with the various multi-national troops.
I have a theory that if one is leaned towards the good and placed in a bad situation they become stronger whereas if one has bad tendencies they can erupt in a situation which offers the opportunity…
Yup…disgusting behavior eh. I didnt realise the foreign expat men did this too…I thought only Saudi’s did. Just recently I was at the ladies suq with my son and some sleazeball had the gaul to offer to buy me an abayaah in exchange for my phone number and God knows what else. Obviously I screamed my head off at the phreako, called him every name in the book and was about to throw my shoe at him when he ran off, ofcourse all this happened in a shop and ofcourse the people in the shop didnt help me at all, probably because they were Indian/Pakistani and the phreako was Saudi so I had to get all ghetto on the creep. Such nasty and disgusting behavior, like what woman would essentially prostitute herself for an abayaah? They gotta be kidding…and what makes it nastier is not only am I a muslim, was totally covered but I also had my 3yr old with me! I really hope and pray that there arent women out there who would actually have taken the sleazeball up on that offer!
yuck…
Umm Tiflain…your and mine experiences are fairly similar…only difference is you should have turned and faced him, screamed bloody heck, called him names and really threatened him with something. They think that behavior is OK when it’s not. I know it’s difficult for women to stick up for themselves in such instances, but as I mentioned above, I’m ghetto…I’ve seen it all…nothing really scares me and I really let him have it. I’m sure that phreako was NOT expecting my reaction and I hope I scared him good and proper. Should that ever happen next time I’ll be even more aggressive and try to punch the guy out.
In Iran for example, this behavior would NOT happen, first because a woman who wants this sort of attention will dress and behave in a manner that a man knows and two, if a man is sexually harrassing a woman other men will attack the guy and most likely beat him up. Persian men are NOT like this, they dont tolerate anyone treating women in such a atrocious way. I had one expereince on a bus in Tehran where a man was bumping up against me from the mens side of the railing and right as it dawned on me that it wasnt a woman bumping into me (the bus was crowded) and was turning around to jab him in the eyes other men near him saw what he was doing, grabbed him, threw him off the bus and half the men got off and beat the kr@p out of him, got back on the bus and the bus left. The women came around me and comforted me and everyone was saying how disgusting he was, what a dog, how he’ll rot in hell.
How this stuff goes on here in KSA is beyond me!
I truly hope that inappropriate incidents are isolated incidents. Good for you Umm Tiflain in letting him know he was inappropriate. Sad though that noone else came to your aid.
@ Umm Ibrahim – ‘In Iran for example, this behavior would NOT happen, first because a woman who wants this sort of attention will dress and behave in a manner that a man knows’
That comment doesn’t sit well with me because it STILL places blame on the woman. Perhaps you didn’t really mean it the way it sounds BUT, who gets to decide how a woman will dress or behave if that WAS the sort of attention she wanted? What if the man thinks the mere fact that the woman is out of her house without a guardian is clear indication that she is up for some fun?
Lynn, well I think here in KSA unfortunately men do tend to think if your a woman outside of a typical female going area than you’r up for grabs anyway.
but in Iran…like women who tend to date, have boyfriends or just wanna play around do dress in a manner that tends to cause them to stick out and everyone knows. Women who tend to not do that sort of stuff tend to dress and behave in a different manner and generally a man will know the difference. There is you behave modestly no man is going to bother you, they respect you.
in the US obviously whatever goes goes…
I think it depends on what country your in. The problem with Saudi is a man can’t really tell if the woman in abayah and niqab with the toddler beside her would give him her number and play around or not. yes some women slather on eye makeup and make themselves look very attractive in Niqab, but if a woman doesnt do that how can a man know? Here it peturbs me that there isnt a way of dressing that differentiates women who will do stuff and women who wont. Verses in the USA generally if a woman is dressed modestly by US standards guys wont really bother her and in Iran it’s the same way. If you have on a skin tight manteau thats 1 inch below the butt in length, capri pants, hair all out and a boatload of makeup on then yeah, those types get propositioned not the women in proper length manteau and their hair all covered (with or without chador)
Im sorry if my comment is upsetting but here in the Middle East this IS the reality.
‘Modesty’ is a personal thing in the US and is different for every single person. NO ONE gets to determine a woman’s desires by her way of dressing. I could dress like a hooker and stand on a street corner and STILL that does NOT give a man an excuse. Yeah, sucks to be men here. They need to have to have complete control of themselves. Fortunately the vast majority manage quite well.
@ Umm Ibrahim
“so I had to get all ghetto on the creep.”
Ha Ha Ha! Gwan Rude gal!
My kind of sentiment right there!
I so tried not to comment on this one but after reading that line…… Hi Five sister!
LOL
Lashing is too mild a punishment for such men. They deserve to be knocked over, have their brains splattered all over the pavement and their bodies ground to a pulp – with heavy cowboy boots. Indeed, they deserve to suffer that penalty forever in hell.
Sure, I believe in redemption, but someone like this is obviously not interested in repenting or being redeemed – only in his own lusts – and I am alas only human…
Such men will ultimately have to account for each and every action.