There is not a one-size fits all description of the various traits of a young Saudi woman. Therefore this post is more generalized and based more on typical observations. Let’s say the young Saudi woman is between the ages of 18-24. She will have finished high school and if her mahrem (male guardian) allows her, may be attending University. She may also be at the age eager to become engaged for that is perceived as another symbol of arrival in the life of the Saudi woman.
The Saudi young woman who comes from an open family or lives in Jeddah or Damman may be more open and “exposed” to life experiences than young Saudi women of similar ages from elsewhere in the Kingdom. And if the young Saudi woman has had the opportunity to routinely travel outside of the Kingdom she may seem even more mature than her actual age.
However general observations on the young Saudi women from Nejd, to include such places as Riyadh, al-Qassim, Uneiza, is that they are more sheltered. While they may be in the age range of 18-24 their antics and discussions will be more similar to 13-16 year olds. It’s a double-edged sword. The young Saudi woman will know how to make herself up to look much older than her actual age yet actual maturity is much younger.
Granted, the traditional young girls do not have the same exposures as young Saudi women who travel or live in more progressive areas. So for the traditional young girls, their day can rotate around chatting with friends at all hours via MSN Messenger or Facebook. They enjoy the Lebanese music channels and note the fashions, make up and hair styles very carefully. When they get together and visit they will still SMS each other even though they are in the same room. They enjoy an evening of listening to music and dancing and eating Krispy Kreme donuts.
Filed under: culture, Dress, Entertainment, friendship, gender, relationships, Saudi Arabia, Saudi culture, Saudi customs, Saudi education, Saudi Living, travel, Uncategorized, Women Issues Tagged: | culture, culture shock, customs, gender, gender issues, heritage, Jeddah, KSA, places, Riyadh, Saudi, Saudi Arabia, Saudi culture, Saudi customs, women
Greetings from Susie’s blog!
I wish you and your husband could keep up the positive spirit. I had breast cancer operation 6 months ago so I do know how you feel even if I didn’t have to go to chemo.
Fear is the same though.
You got a new reader! Nice to meet you,
greetings from Cairo, Egypt!
Thanks for providing us outsiders with your observations. I really had no idea what the traditional girls’ lives were like, since I’ve only been exposed to those girls whose parents have allowed them to come here (US).
I’m a bit disappointed in this post, Carol. With all due respect, there wasn’t much meat to it.
First to Abu Dhabi – I hope I do not disappoint too often. I am making every effort to maintain daily posts but will be the first to acknowledge some days have become more challenging in concentrating. Please bear with me and appreciate your feedback.
Blogitse – thank you and welcome to American Bedu. I greatly appreciate your support and kind comment!!
Culturewatch – appreciate you comment and will make every effort to have future posts and comments more detailed for greater understanding and appreciation.
i find your comment about 18-24 year olds acting like 13-16 year olds quite offensive. sure, according to your standard but your standard is not some universal rule.
Mariam,
I do not in any way try to imply that my standard or view is THE ruling view. But I do share what I have perceived and state it as such. I know some women will find the comment insulting and inappropriate but I stand by that depending on the background and location in Saudi, I have seen this as an accurate description. Again, not in all cases but enough. Thanks for taking the time to comment.
@mariam…
Just to give an outsiders perspective. I did not find that post by Bedu insulting.
What I read from it is that the more protected girls/women are the more innocent or less jaded by circumstances they are. I don’t think that would pertain only to Saudi women…I think it would pertain to anyone who, due to a less exposed life experience, would have a more innocent and younger perspective. That doesn’t mean they are less intelligent or not capable of older behavior once they have a more exposed view.
Have I understood the post wrong? Perhaps-but my take on it was that the women simply did not have a “worldly” exposure by that age.
Mariam…actually she is spot on about the age thing. After 23 years in the gulf I agree 100%…people dont act their age. Girls more than boys but I see it in adults as well. I assume its because of “dependence on family” all your lives thing. Why grow up?
I will take Bedu’s conclusions for granted, don’t forget she considers other girls to be far more mature as their years.
I would not call girls behaving and acting many years younger as their actual age as ”innocent”, rather as backward and badly educated and very badly prepared for life.
I consider it in no way a good thing to ”protect” girls and have them unprepared, and uneducated to live a full life.
As a comparison with Canadian girls of the same age the Saudi women/teens I’ve met act act much, much younger. That is not surprising because they are not out in the world and exposure to books, men, a broad education in high school is quite restrictive when compared to Europe, the UK and North American countries. Carol generalizes but what else can she do and she is correct. Saudi readers here shouldn’t find it offensive at all in my opinion.
well, i agree with you. i would add this is happens everywhere. u can make comparison btt two a group of ppl who live one in a urban city and other in modern city it would say its easy to notice that in general ppl who live in a modern city more mature than ppl who live in a urban city because of this, simply experience that ppl might have them. in Riyadh i think behind of this is because culture in Riyadh is more conservative that make a women are fewer experiences than for example Jedediah.
by the way, i surprised to a young in both girls and boys in USA about how they are more mature than their ages really are because opportunities that they have as i undrestand from ur article ..
sorry for long words !
Carol is right, and I think male members of Saudi society like it this way. If you have mature, educated, independent women with self esteem, it is much harder to manipulate them and control them.
I have seen it in my wife’s own family where male members control everything to the point where the adult female members of the family are not aware of some of the most basic things need in life to function.
I used to think it was just because the men liked to do everything themselves, but I have come to the conclusion the last few years that Saudi men, Middle Eastern men in general, fear anything that might give their women more independence and allow them to function on their own.
I think it is a systemic issue that is kept in place to allow the male dominated system to continue. I think the men do these things knowing that it purpetuates the male supremacy system, and many females aid in this because they are afraid of actually having to function on their own.
That is just my opinion of course. };>)
This just reminded me of something. I grew up as a military brat but we mostly lived in the city and not on air base. When I was 17 we moved to an airbase and I was surprised at how ‘unworldly’ the teens who had spent their lives on base living quarters seemed in comparison to myself. I really didn’t have that much in common with them. Same thing I guess – somewhat restrictive lives.
I am afraid you are mostly right in this post carol. The lack of proper social interactions is a real challenge for a lot of Saudi women in their early twenties; and yes, sometimes they can be regarded as immature as 14 or 16 years old girls!
I believe you can find many live examples in situations such as when one of those twenty something ladies get married to a man from a more open minded family or when she decided to go abroad to complete her studies as many women do these days. At first, she will be overwhelmed by the new life experiences. She could cope with the new experience as long as she is willing to recreate a lot of her perceptions about life or she will just shut off, fail and have nothing but to go back to her comfort zone!
I’m enjoying all the comments and views and very happy to have ya’ll Saudi guys (and ladies too) sharing your perspectives.
I am a proponent of wanting to help educate and empower the young women and very much enjoyed the opportunities just sitting and chatting with young students (high school, university and beyond). I think it is important for the young Saudi women to know that they can have someone with whom they can ask questions they may be either embarrassed or unable to ask a mother or a sister but yet need to have answered in a manner fitting with the culture, customs and religion. Too many young women find themselves married and feeling like they have fallen down a waterfall for lack of preparedness on the next stage of life and living with someone else.
hi everyone!!! it’s the “original” mariam, since it is now impossible to tell us apart – I will hereby be know as ARBGRLUSA!!!! This is also my email at yahoo, so if any of you wish to contact me you may do so. (arbgrlusa@yahoo.com).
Now to business…I loved this post – especially the part about texting people in the same room (sms). Don’t you just hate that??? It’s so rude to talk about others anyhow, and why else would you text unless you had something bad to say??? I agree about the makeup and hair, what’s with that??? It must be all the latent artistic talent since we are not allowed to pursue many arts that are representative of human/nature.
And I think Carol was spot on about maturity levels. I was lucky to travel a great deal, and was always stunned by what my homegirls were discussing whenever I returned.
just testing my new name – this is Mariam from old times….now the new mariam won’t be confused with me.
@ AmericanBedu
I think what I like most about this blog is the honesty. I appreciate your willingness to call it as you see it. As I said before, thanks for taking the time to shed light upon the realities in Saudi.
@ Mariam
I think a lot of times we take offense to things no on has ever dared to tell us before. Not all things are pretty to hear. Anyway, it looks to me from all the comments, that Carol’s assessment isn’t that far off. However unfortunate the facts are, that’s exactly what they are. I’m sure not all sheltered females act as if they are 13. But Mariam, before you point fingers take time to sit back and think about it…
If you were a woman, who was raised ultra-conservatively (which probably means you haven’t traveled very much, met many people outside your faith and ethnic background, have never had contact with the opposite sex, aren’t allowed to read, watch, and do certain things, etc.) What would you have left in your life? Family and close friends. Maybe (depending on your socio-economic background) freedom to spend some discretionary income the way you’d like (to an extent). But what else?
How in the world would you morph into some super mature intellectual with so many valuable things to say, when you’ve never been encouraged to see the world, understand what is going on within it, and look to see how you can help change it. AND most importantly-have FEW life experiences that come with exploration and continual learning. You’d just sit around and talk about what you know. Family. Friends. Shopping. Boys (in whispers and giggles).
This isn’t a strictly Saudi problem. I know many sweet girls here in the US, who fit Carol’s description exactly. They were never encouraged to plan a future (that isn’t centered around a man and how he will provide for you). They were never encouraged to see themselves as powerful human beings capable of greatness. They were never encouraged to explore other cultures and meet new people. Yet, they are American.
These American girls, in their early twenties, spend their time talking of childish things. You ask them what they dream of for themselves and they have little to say besides…”To be married. To stay home. To have children.” While, I certainly don’t knock this dream (because it also a dream of mine). I do find it sad to find that in many cases, of these young women, it is their ONLY dream. It is their single plan for survival and happiness.
So you see. I believe Carol. I’m not the least bit offended. I’ve seen with my own eyes. Maybe not in Saudi, but right here on American soil (despite the fact that we have supposedly made so much progress as women here).
Abu Dhabi, how insensitive! Bedu is ill, have you forgotten? The meat is there, if you want a steak, go to a restaurant! Her posts are usually succinct and spot on, nothing missing here. Only a bit of compassion on your part my dear!
And Bedu, or should I address you as Carol? I do love how you seem to be able to reach out to so many people.
As for the post…….I have witnessed the opposite actually. I have met several young saudi girls who seemed very mature for their ages (13-20) and their parents are not of the traveling abroad type so it had nothing to do with worldly exposure. Their mothers are however teachers and encourage seeking knowledge verses wasting their time. I also have a neighbor who is uneducated herself but strives to ensure her children are the opposite, all three of her children ages 6-13 are nearly fluent in English! She’s done a wonderful job in providing the necessary tools they need to learn about the world but they are not rich or sheltered by any means.
So I think much can be said for how the parents can play a direct role in their children’s maturity level. If you provide them with cerebral stimulation (books, etc.) then they’re apt to mature more quickly but if you provide them with nothing but rubbish (games, music, etc.) then their minds will turn to mush and mature lately. And as oby said, this applies to anyone, saudi or not.
This rings very true. My SIL is a very sweet, caring and kind lady. She’d do anything for you if you asked.
However, outside of that she is a child in her late 30s (never married.) Cannot balance a checkbook or budget, prefers to hang out with girlfriends and go shopping to anything else, and cannot motivate or discipline herself to focus on the studies despite very real consequences of losing her scholarship and going home if certain educational goals are not achieved.
That’s a great shame when you think how big this world is and how little of it someone like that will see despite travel opportunities. I should also add that despite the opportunity to travel, somehow these ladies find a way to surround themselves with girls just like them. So in a way, it’s like they never left home or stepped outside their bubble.
again enjoying all the comments and perspectives. i’ve been fortunate to be well traveled and do feel that the maturity level among young women in Saudi is more noticed than elsewhere…but again, just my own observations. And I don’t knock them and I also appreciate and happy to hear of the mom’s who may have been sheltered but encourage and promote their own daughter’s to reach out and learn. It kinds of reminds me of my lovely dear MIL, Mama Moudy, who was only educated to 9 years old but every single of her daughter’s are university educated and she (Mama Moudy) also has such curiousity and we so enjoy watching news together and then in our way have learned how to exchange our views on what we’ve watched. Ohhhh, I miss her!
And forgive me if any posts or comments may seem a little lame from me…blame it on chemo brain! (LOL)
American Bedu – I think this was a great post, encouraging your readers to make their own interpretations and offer their own experiences and perceptions. You shouldn’t be made to feel it is lacking in any way.
In truth, I quite liked this topic. I have been able to draw several similarities to my own experiences/knowledge outside of KSA which I feel makes the knowledge more real and accessible. I particularly linked this topic to a paper I just wrote for one of my grad classes on the politics of heresy in medieval France. Abu Sinan’s comments seem markedly similar to quite a few of the large scale male-female relations I researched.
Also, my best friend (American) was home-schooled by her parents (both of whom went to universities) and I would say she fits the description of a sheltered Saudi woman very well. Her world is somewhat limited to her books and cat, and now her husband and soon-to-be new baby. She always had high dreams but never the focus or drive to reach them, something I blame on her parents who kept her as cut off from the real world as possible. – I was the “bad” influence sneaking her books all the years since we met
Culturewatch brings up a very good point about the parents being one of the strongest influences on the maturity of their children.
Great post Bedu!
i was upset by the comment because i hear you talking in other posts about the need of reform, especially the guardianship system then at same time saying saudi women are inmmature. surely, if this is the case then how is the average saudi female going to cope with making her own decisions.
i didn’t know there is also a mariam here so i will change to africana, so mariam can go back to being mariam.
this post is absolutely spot on. I’ve actually considered embroidering a small framed sign for my office door in arabic that says “if you expect to be treated like an infant or a princess, kindly find another doctor”. I would NEVER actually hang this on my door, but finding an outlet for my feelings on this made the feelings subside. hehe. The Saudi girls/women I’ve met I’ve been most able to relate to intellectually have been well travelled, university educated and spent more than a few years working with westerners full time. And they’re always years older than they act, with inappropriately timed giggling and refusal to use their muscles when I’m testing strength. It’s really amusing sometimes, and sad and frustrating other times.
The second to last sentence is in reference to the immature women, not the previously mentioned travelled and educated women. sorry, not clear.
thanks for all the additional comments and sharing of perspectives. What I’d like to add to Africana is that one thing about Saudi Arabia especially is that it is indeed all about contrasts and contradictions where you find such a mish mash of things that somehow all fit in together even though you would not expect them to make sense.
Alas, so true. The young men and women here tend to be extremely immature and irresponsible. I think first it stems from most being raised by nannies and so their moms don’t ever give them chores to do and two…they are just immature by nature.
It really makes me sad to see young women who are married and have a child even behaving like they are freshmen in HS.
I donno…I think they need to chuck the dang nannies and get rid of all the dang maids and start doing things on their own and teaching their children responsibility for their behavior! reminds me of that Kuwaiti woman who burnt down her ex-husbands wedding tent…she blamed it on HIM! She didnt take responsibility at all and she even said she couldn’t control her rage.
My son is not even 3 yet and he already does chores, he helps me wash dishes, he usually *tries* to clean up his own messes and he like to “help” me fold laundry and put it away. Sometimes he makes a huge mess in the process but he understands that he has too, might sound mean but I’m sure someday he’ll thank me. He also doesn’t whine and make a huge fuss in public over every little thing…the local children really whine and scream and don’t quiet down until the nannies swoosh them up and give them candy.
*rolls eyes*. sorry, I get harsh about this stuff.
…I also meant to add that also parents teaching their children how to rationalize and understand why they shouldn’t do something or why they can’t do something definitely helps towards raising responsible children. I see this lacking here.
Yes, there is a distinction with the ‘nanny generation’ on how some children are raised. Fortunately not all the Saudi children are raised as such but enough are that it is noticeable.
My son and DIL have chosen to have a nanny here in the US due to their own schedules plus the desire to not have to send my grandson to daycare. I am very impressed though how the nanny has structured programs and lesson plans and my lil man is just a little over a year old. Much depends on the approach….
Just to compare…in Iran, for example…girls tend to be very mature (not physically but emotionally and mentally)…maybe some from the rural areas arent very educated beyond HS and maybe some come from very conservative families which keep them protected from what goes on outside, but they are generally very responsible and most act their age or older. Guys seem to be the same way, regardless of whether they come from cities or rural areas. Many rural Iranians have a harder life (even now adays) and most girls marry quite young but they are quite prepared to handle married life as they had helped their moms and aunts cook and clean and sew and some even make carpets from a young age. Girls from progressive urban families usually have side-jobs, travel a lot or are pushed to go far with their education. Either way, in Iran the girls arent like this.
As I mentioned…I def. think a part of the immaturity here is due to dependance on nannies and maids.
Ah yes, I guess approach does matter. Unfortunately I only know what I see and what I hear and I do hope that most Nannies are doing schedules activities with the children they watch. BUt, also, unfortunately Ive heard some Saudi’s my husband and I have befriend talking about the nannies as being incompetent and soforth. I don’t understand then why they would have them watch their children!
Ive also seen…way to often, sadly…moms shopping and nanny behind her pushing a stroller…that really irritates me or mom shopping and nanny is stuck with kid in the play area. Sure, it’s nice to have mommy free-time and “me” time…I know I leave the kidlet at home with his dad atleast once-twice a week so I can get a break…but I just find the whole nanny pushing stroller behind mom kinda…eww…I dont dare say the word.
Ah well, c’est le vie.
@Umm Ibrahim,
I know here in the Northern Virginia area if we hear/see loud, obnoxious and unruly children 9 times out of 10 they are Arab children.
I think lots of times the parents forget they arent in the Middle East anymore, as if that should be okay there. My wife, a Saudi, had to tell one of her Saudi friends not to let her VERY young children wonder around the mall by themselves as that isnt safe here.
Also, it is interesting to hear about Saudi kids whose Arabic isnt that good…….but their Tagalog is excellent because their Filipino nannies spend far more time with them than their children.
I know family is important in the Middle East, but the way they deal with children there often belies this assertion.
Sorry if I offend on this one but I had to ask:
Is that how/ why the stereo type of saudi women are only happy if they are shopping or lounging come in?
By the way, I saw a clip on youtube about a ladies only spa and hotel some where in riyadh (i think), set up by a group of females, fully staffed by females and decorated “with the feminine touch” etc.
Fully compliant with the sharia requirments of places where women can go to (esp without a mahrem) and get totally “uncovered”. Had trained doctors, personal trainers, gyms, pools, the whole shabang.
Seems to be a new trend or something well established? Can anyone shed some light on it for me?
such an interesting topic and really really enjoyed reading these comments….
I always tend to compare the male guardianship in Saudi today to the similar male-dominant system in China before the revolution. It has been a male -society for thousands of years and still is the case in some rural areas, but I always thought the reason was information disadvantage back then, that woman could only see what happens around her, and follow the rituals & norms, because there wasn’t mobiles or internet……..
I thought in the world like where we are in today, everybody with a computer can come across a blog like this, can get all sorts of information about other culture, hence much easier to become more mature and understands what rights should they demand….
but apparently, in saudi, even with the computer & mobile penetration, the change of mind still doesnt’ happen as easily………….
@Maryam,
You may enjoy reading an earlier post I wrote about the Luthan Hotel and Spa which is what I am sure you are referring to:
http://americanbedu.com/2008/08/28/so-what-if-riyadh-has-a-women-only-hotel/
In response to your query, I am sure that the lifestyle of some Saudi women does indeed add to certain stereotypes and what equates to the perceptions and mindsets.
@Jill,
I think anyone interested in China and its traditions and women’s closeness should read Snowflower and the (something) Fan. sorry…can’t recall the full title but I hope I gave enough info to find it.
In regards to blogs and internet access, one must also remember that for the majority of Saudis and particularly women, the language will be arabic….and not all have access or the same interest in computers necessarily.
young sweet girl marige to me
Thanks American Bedu!
That’s the hotel. I had to agree with some of the comments on the link. I would L.O.V.E the chance to spend a girlie weekend in a place like that. Pampering others is part of what I do but to get a chance to be pampered is a whole other story.
True too, all over the world, there is a demand for women only sessions in gyms, swimming pools etc so why not a hotel dedicated to women too?
As for the mahrem thing, I know it takes the stress out of being taken every where and not being able to chill out properly in a mixed hotel.
The website seems to have been taken down though or the link on your page no longer exists.
Thank you (smile)
Snowflower and the secret fan?
http://www.amazon.com/Snow-Flower-Secret-Fan-Novel/dp/0812980352/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1260976379&sr=1-3
Looks like a great book! I’m going to order it next time i’m in America!
Thanks Aafke – that’s it! And it is such a great book.
I have completely lost track now of all the mariam/maryams
and who’s who, and which Mari/yam has changed and to which name… 
Mariam, Maryam, Maraim are all very popular names and I’m happy to have all of them! Don’t worry….as you read the comments you’ll know who is who ! (smile)
A clue is in the pics to the right of each commentor.
I realised the difference when a comment of mine was mistaken for Mariam’s (now known as Arbgrlusa) and the other Maraim has now changed to Africana.
Mmmm, might call my self Ebony Lol
Tell you what: I used to know 7 Marianne’s at the same time! Three at my ponyclub.
After a while we gave up and called them Marianne1, Marianne2 and Marianne3.
It’s funny you say that for in Saudi where many women have similar names, we do the same thing! Even in the immediate family there are same names so it’s big or little or like you’ve done…no. 1, no.2 and so on!