Just the other day I was having a discussion with several Saudi men. They could not understand why I, as a female, would choose to go to the graves of family members who had passed away to pay my respects. When I asked them why they thought it was odd their response was “Saudi women are too emotional and have to be kept away from such places.” I told the men that for me, I received comfort paying respects at the place where I know a loved one was buried and perhaps a Saudi woman may find additional comfort too. Again they were all adamant in their viewpoint that a Saudi woman would not be able to handle such a situation. They claim she will cry, scream, slap her cheeks and pull out her hair. They all wanted to protect her from herself.
The conversation then naturally segued to Saudi women and their emotions. Again, with all the men unanimous in their viewpoint, the Saudi women are too emotional and need to be protected by their male family members to not be subjected to any situation which would be upsetting or frightening to them.
Now this was only a very small group of Saudi men ranging in age from 25 to 60 but is it this kind of viewpoint which prohibits the Saudi woman from coming into her own and having more choices and opportunities? And in my view, it probably only takes a minority of men to have these views of keeping the women sheltered to make a significant impact.
These same men also remarked that the western women are indeed different because they have not been as sheltered or protected. As a result, the western women are more capable of handling themselves in new and unknown situations unlike the Saudi women.
In learning the views of this small group of Saudi men it illustrated to me why there are often big distinctions in relationships when a Saudi man has chosen to marry a Western. He may not feel it is a necessary for him to support or protect a western woman because he believes she is emotionally stronger than a Saudi woman.
I do not myself agree with the views that these men shared. I think such views are shortchanging the strengths, intellect and emotions of Saudi women. What do YOU think?
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I understand that way grief is expressed is cultural. When my father died our wake was quiet, the family next door was Italian and the women were very expressive. So, I can imagine the Saudi women will have their own way of expressing grief.
I am a middle aged man and the older I get the less I believe the women are the weaker sex. I don’t think I need give examples, for we can all find them in our own families. I cannot believe that Saudi women are psychologically different from those I have known.
Maybe the men are just scared of the ladies.
The Saudi women that I have met are not what one would describe as shrinking violets. They struck me as smart, educated, and confident but perhaps they are the exceptions. People, not just women, need to be given opportunities in order to grow and develop, to build up their “capability muscles”, so to speak.
i know many countries in the middle east, a woman goes to funerals…and people should have the choice if they want or dont want to partake in activities, especially partaking in a loved ones passing services
H i , many men have this idea , I totally disagree with them, I live in saudi arabia ,in my area where I live women often go to the cemetry with a smile on thier faces .
I know that if I was barred from going to a cemetery to grieve a loved one, I would never be able to heal. However, I suppose this is largely cultural, but women should be given the choice to do so if they wish. Sure, there’ll be the over-emotional ones, but like anything else, a huge segment of the population should not be painted with the same brush.
Yes. Most are far too emotional, although I find the volume goes up when the man is there to hear it. My observation is not in grief situations but in clinical bodywork situations where the women are being touched. In general I use about 25% of the muscle/force I ever used at home, and the result is often tears and outright screaming…followed by acknowledgement under interrogation (lol.. i mean translation) that they’re just scared most of the time, not actually in pain. I feel like I’m working on my own mother who’s a throwback to the 1950′s “little woman” anyway.
People behave the way they’re conditioned to behave..
@Carol Over the years, I’ve seen most Saudi women being very sheltered by the men in the family…especially in cases of bad accidents or death. Many times when a loved one has died…they tell the women that the person is very ill at the hospital and that they to visit right away. In some cases, however, the person is washed and buried before the women ever find out about it! The men just decide what is best for them.
We went to a funeral in Lebanon, and all of the arab women there were perfectly capable of controlling themselves, except for one. She was the auntie…and never close to the boy who died, but she was really screaming and wailing ….and then, even fainted!!! Her sister, a nurse, knowing it was all about attention, smacked her across her face really hard (trying to wake her up). But, she told us later that she hit her sister because she was just being silly….and she knew that she was only pretending to faint.
In any case, even in Lebanon, the women were not allowed to go to the cemetary until the men had gone and actually laid the body to rest. Then, the women were allowed to go to the cemetary if they wanted to….as a group…without the men. Strange customs.
When my father passed away in the states, it was so comforting to be there with my brothers and sisters. How terrible to have to segregate the family at such a difficult time.
of course women are capable of dealing with death. Considering the infant mortality rate in KSA, until recently, women were unfortunately greatly experienced with it.
I had to laugh with Fatima, who mentioned women walking to the cemetery with a smile on their face…
must be their husband’s funeral.
I do think that there are circumstances in which -some- (not all) Saudi women are conditioned to overreact for attention. But overall I think the Saudi woman is much stronger and intelligent than the men give credit for…and it saddens me that there are men who prefer to keep the women down “for their protection….”
@Carol,
You are SO right. Trust me, Saudi women, if given free access, would give ANY man a good run for their money. I think this fact is actually part of the problem. It is a fear on the part of the men. They are afraid of dealing with women on equal footing.
Let’s look at the Prophet and his life. He was employed by his first wife Khadija, by all accounts his favourite wife. Is this a position almost any man in the Muslim community would be happy with? Probably not, but it is a cultural issue.
Once again culture and Islam clash with culture being the winner in most case. I urge Muslim men to look to the example of the Prophet who wasnt too bold or proud to be employed by his wife.
Anyway, things are getting better, slowly in the Islamic world. There have been female leaders of Muslim countries and Insha’Allah, this will be a growing trend.
Muslim women, Arab women, can stand toe to toe with any man in the world, and why shouldnt they? It is the sunnah of the Prophet after all.
I just wish people wouldnt cherry pick what they want to follow. Women in the earliest years of Islam were leaders, and they should be so now as well!
In many cases, religion shapes into tradition by habit. Visiting graves is one of the matters in Islamic literature where dispute has arisen on whether or not women are allowed to pay their respects, due to their fragile nature, (or so it has been interpreted by some scholars).
It is also in Islamic literature that Ayisha, peace be upon her, had visited her brother’s grave and has visited Albaqe’i cemetery in Madinah, with the Prophet peace be upon him, where she asked him what to say and he answered, “Peace be upon you oh Muslims and faithful of this place..”
Although, we are taught early on in school here in Saudi the more conservative take on the matter (no surprise) that it is looked down upon in Islam that women go to a loved one’s grave and pay their respects, because we throw tantrums.
Funny thing is, I’ve seen more men in my life throwing tantrums than women.
But as Twain said, “Never let your schooling interfere with your education.”
Agreeing with Jerry, women are much more patient, and patience and strength are almost one.
So, the Saudis you’ve spoken to, American Bedu, have gotten that stance most likely from our earlier education and since then, it’s become a social ruling out for us to accompany them to the cemetery. We may pass by, by chance, but never enter.
@Ilham,
Welcome to the blog and thank you for sharing your views and experiences. It is really good to hear from more Saudis, both male and female on this topic.
My friend in Syria gave a similar answer when he told me why women didn’t go to funerals there. I was rather shocked when I first heard that.
Reading this post, I was reminded of Reading Loylita in Tehran. In it, one of the readers explains why traditional Muslim women get so hysterical – it is, she said, the only time they are publicly allowed to show emotions, and once they open the gate, they have no control. I was struck by that explanation years ago when I first read it, and the more I learn and know about the cultures of the ME, the more I believe it is probably true. The irony, of course, is that overall, women are by nature more in touch with their emotions than men. Emotional intuition and intellligence is an advantage in many instances, so by forcing women to hide and lock away their emotions, the patriarchal system here has once again taken something advantageous away from women. It’s amazing how many ways they’ve come up with, isn’t it?
As always – great topic!
Yes, it is their belief that Arab women need to be protected from any bad situation and could be challenging to them, or may hurt their feelings, or require making an adult decision independently. And then after they made protected her from the outside world from birth until marriage and then for the rest of her life by her husband… then they say “Look, she is innocent like a child!” Yeah, right because she always had a life of a child sheltered from everything. But the Western women can handle anything, they are used to it
@SGIME: oh yes….I do believe that as women we are natural nurturers, peace makers and skillful in conflict resolution….after all….isn’t that what any mother does on a daily basis?
Welcome Salam to the blog. I appreciate your comment. I believe your last statement about Western woman can handle anything is a backhanded compliment? (smile)
Isnt ironic that women are sheltered because they
“cant handle” death or other nasties in the life…yet they apparently can handle abuse, oppression, and restrictions placed upon them…some with great fortitude and forbearance…go figure.
Coolred, I was thinking the same thing. He says they protect their women from ‘hurt feelings’. Is that why they keep the rest of their wives and other families hidden?
About other wives, I haven’t experienced polygamy myself, but I believe if he was a good man, and I don’t actually need to see his other wife, and if he was able to financially provide for both families it could work. As a second wife
But to be a first wife, and then at some point have to start sharing… that would be painful. But again, depends on a husband.
And about Western women, I think this is all bunch of bull
they have feelings just like Arab women. However, they may have more options than Arab women in case marriage goes sour. No need to stay in abusive marriage to appease the family and relatives. Even if there are kids, if there is a chance to return to country of origin, and start a new life there…
well all is not that bad,isnt it?!!!!!!!!!!!!!
September 9, 2009 – Saudi Arabia has been ranked the 13th most competitive country in the world in the Doing Business 2010 report issued by the World Bank this month. The information in the report reflects data gathered from 2008 and 2009. The Kingdom has moved its overall ranking from 67th in 2004, 28th in 2006, 16th in 2007, to this year’s impressive ranking. Additionally, for the fifth consecutive year, Saudi Arabia has been ranked the best place to do business in the entire Middle East and Arab World.
Saudi Arabia’s recent economic reforms have made it easier to conduct business in the Kingdom. H.M. King Abdullah has made definitive efforts to modernize the Saudi Arabian economy by enacting a new foreign investment law, establishing business transparency through regulatory frameworks, and attracting greater participation from foreign investors in the economy. Since Saudi Arabia’s accession to the World Trade Organization in 2005, Saudi Arabian business practices have become even more accessible to foreign investors. H.E. Amr Al-Dabbagh, Governor and Chairman of the Saudi Arabian General Investment Authority (SAGIA), commented on the role of reforms in the improved ranking: “Saudi Arabia’s reforms demonstrate our determination to create the most attractive destination for investment opportunities in the world. We invite investors to learn more about the positive business environment in the Kingdom and to join in the growth of the business community.”
The ranking by the World Bank confirms that the Kingdom is well-positioned to achieve its ambitious goal of becoming one of the top 10 most competitive countries by 2010 known as the “10 x 10 Program.” The initiative is a series of measures which will contribute to economic reform as well as increased modernization of the infrastructure and education in the Kingdom. The World Bank ranking is one of many tangible ways the “10×10 Program” evaluates the Kingdom’s development. According to Dr. Awwad S. Al-Awwad, Deputy Governor for Investment Affairs at SAGIA and President of the National Competitiveness Center (NCC), the ranking is a true hallmark of the Kingdom’s economic development: “The Doing Business report is a vital reference for governments, international development agencies, and the private sector to assess the regulatory framework and competitiveness of nations. Saudi Arabia’s increased competitiveness signals the ongoing development of a dynamic and diversified economy in the Kingdom.”
Two points to comment on the topic, first, visiting burial sites of loved ones is not a usual act in Saudi society whether from men or women, in fact, once the burial ritual is done, you no longer able to distinguish where the tomb is, we don’t have head stones to mark each and individual grave site, most people do some deeds on behalf of the loved ones so that they can be rewarded after death, as alms giving and prayers…Second, the fact that women are prohibited as a protection is false, so as men treating Western wives differently because they’re emotionally stronger, I can assure you that many Saudi men leave -confidently and comfortably- the burden of kids and financial arrangements on their Saudi wives without any sense of need for protection, and as always, interesting topic…
@Hala – thank you for sharing your views. I am aware as you pointed out that Saudi graves do not have headstones. If lucky, there is some kind of stone or rock places where a body has been buried but that it can be very difficult to identity the location of the grave later. I guess I also wonder how do Saudi women feel about not going to the grave or burial site of a loved one? Would seeing the final resting place give them more comfort or are they content without the need to see by knowing the loved one is now with Allah?
Dear All,
I think there is a misconception as to what a Saudi gravesite looks like. While I have never gone myself, my husband has participated in his share of burials and has described to me the heat, smell and sadness of the occasion. Once the body is laid to rest there is nothing to distinguish its resting place from those of the others. Many people are laid to rest in the same grave depending on the type. There are those that are stacked and those that are more single occupancy. Many times its a matter of moving over the remains of a former occupant to accompany those of the new.
Women (or men) wailing at a gravesite or even the 3azza (which is similar to a wake without the presence of the body) is frowned upon as going against Allah’s will. We must all accept that we are mortal and our time on this planet is finite. To wail and weep and pull hair is in defiance of this fact although it is understandable that the loss of a loved one is a very difficult event.
In Islam, rather that dwell on the resting place of the Departed, it is much better to offer prayers, alms and good deeds in their name. Many people even perform or arrange for others to make Umrah or Hajj on the behalf of their dearly Departed. The idea of going to the gravesite is not part of the heritage or culture of Saudi society. People in other Muslim cultures erect tombs and make yearly pilgrimmages to gravesites of loved ones and saints which is seen as bidaa by many of the more conservative branches of Islamic thought.
Y
Thank you Yasmin for your comment and explanations.
I Think Yasmin has elaborated accurately on the topic of visiting the burial site from a Saudi Cultural perspective, I can’t add anything more… As for the question of how Saudi women relate to the visiting of a burial place of a loved one, I guess I can’t really say, since I don’t have -Thank God- any personal experience with this, I can relate to this from a perspective of my mother, an Egyptian woman, She used to gather us to visit the tombs of her parents in Alexandria every year after their death, this has discontinued some years afterward, I vaguely remember discussions of my parents about women visiting the burial sites, my father tried to convince my mother that this is not helping her parents, that she should do some good deeds and pray for them instead, my mother, either out of the passage of time or out of obedience, have stopped going eventually… I remember that visits to the grave were full of sadness and tears, she would hug us for days afterward as if to protect us from a similar fate, she would be a sad, withdrawn and contemplative person after the visits, I know that for years, despite not visiting her parents grave site anymore, she would mention them and her eyes would have the same sad expression of those visits, death is sad and how people cope with it- whether males or females- varies greatly and must be understood and respected, whether with visiting the grave sites or not… It’s funny that my 9 years old nephew, while watching on the road the open cemetery in USA has expressed concern on not being able to know where a loved one was buried in KSA, and that at least here in USA, people can relate -for a while- with their loved ones…
@Hala – Very perceptive of your nephew!
I just wanted to point out that the main reason women don’t visit graves in Islam is because that is one of the Islamic instructions. It’s a rule. We are not supposed to break the rules nor are we supposed to argue against them.
We don’t know for sure that women were prohibited from visiting graves because they are over emotional. It is true, however, that in the time of the prophet (pbuh) women were seriously over emotional.
It was like a tradition for them to hit their faces and chests and wail in expression of grief.
That may not be the case anymore, but I personally believe in Allah and his wisdom. Whatever he allowed, he allowed for a reason. And whatever he forbad, he also forbad for a reason.
Of course, it’s a whole other issue if you want to talk about women being repressed or over protected in Saudi Arabia. I agree with those of you who said: (culture and Islam clash with culture being the winner in most cases)
In an aside, I was speaking with my husband on the topic of women paying respects at graves and he told me that a custom in Egypt is to hire individuals who will grieve and wail for the deceased (male and female) along the route to the graveyard. I was surprised to learn that.
Yes, it’s true, a practice held to show the importance of the deceased person, older tradition rather than modern approach. I never witnessed any of such events, and I believe it’s not widely practiced, it’s rather rare and restricted to lower socioeconomic sects of the population…