To begin with, waiting in lines in Saudi Arabia are always problematic. Unlike other cultures and places, lines in Saudi Arabia are rarely symmetrical and with individuals patiently waiting their turn. They are usually quite noisy, not straight at all but rather people in every which direction expecting to be waited on NOW. The ones who you usually see stoically in a line and patiently waiting their turns are the Western expats. Why is that? Because the Western culture traditionally is more orderly, polite and patient? And inevitably when you will see a Western woman finally being served after without complaint, waiting her time in line, a niqabi/abaya clad woman will cut in front of the western woman, even as the sales clerk is ringing up the items, demanding to be assisted right then and there. And…usually she is….while again the western woman will wait.
Why does the Saudi woman do this? Would she also exhibit such brash behavior with a fellow Saudi? My theory on this is that she is already cloaked so no one can recognize her and secondly, she is after all, only cutting in on a Western…so what’s wrong with that?
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Depending on the situation if someone cut me off in line they would stand to get (A) Impolitely Reprimanded (B) Fishhooked and ordered to the back of the line. (lol, j/k about B, but I’m tempramental…and likely would have words with that person)
Carol,
I am not sure that all Saudi’s do this, but you definitely remember the ones that do it. In any event the issue of cutting in line is common in Saudi and it happens to everyone. I think Saudi needs more enforcement of the rules at every place and eventually people will learn how to line-up in a queue. The problem is there is a class system in place and the cashier for example is likely from a third world country like Pakistan. Hence, he will be at the low end of the class structure and cannot enforce order.
this is so unpolite!!! i cant believe ppl really do that over there! sounds horrible and chaotic, honestly,the very few times that a person does that to me in a queue in my country, i’ve been very angry and not polite at all, because it shows a huge lack of respect for the others, do u think this will change some time over there?
Yes, I do want to say right off that not all Saudis will do this. Unfortunately a lot do so it is something that is noticed….in fact, last month when I had asked for reader requests on topics, this was one of the queries that came to me – to try and explain why it happens as much as it does.
I think you have also helped shed additional light on the situation and reasons too, Saudi in US. Thank you.
Carol – This is surely a pet peeve of a lot of us non-Saudis over here, and something we deal with on a daily basis when we go out. I’m one of those “crass” American women who will ALWAYS speak up when (not if) someone cuts in front of me, pushes ahead or is just generally rude (by any cultural standards). Male, female – doesn’t matter, tho it more often than not is a fully-covered woman. I’m with you in thinking it has to do with the anonymity of the veil, a sense of entitlement and just plain lack of respect for others. That said, those same things account for the traffic here – another system which lacks organization simply because of the people who misuse it! Great topic – again!
Side note – It’s amazing how these so-called little things come into focus when you’re back in the States or another “logic-zone”, isn’t it? We sometimes habituate to them here..which is, I think, another part of the problem. Expectations!
Well this is not only the case of a Saudi Woman cutting a Western Woman in a queue.
This is rather the norm for the ladies here, irrespective of the nationality.
By my personal experience, usually in banks whenever a bunch of men are waiting in a queue, it is rather a norm for a lady irrespective of the nationality to cut in front of other men and go straight to the counter and get their job done. Also the teller or security, has no issues with women cutting lines, but yes they do enforce queue’s with men strictly. And even if the men complain, it is considered extremely rude.
But however when it comes to men cutting in front of other men then yes people do have trouble with it.
Also i have observed in the airports here while boarding aircrafts, single women and couples are put on a different queue then men. And the women and couples get priority boarding as opposed to single men.
So carol, next time you are here don’t bother to stand in a queue just cut it and jump ahead of other men.
Saudis in general are terrible at queues. There’s a deeply ingrained “everyone for themselves” mentality in Saudi society. It’s usually referred to (in Arabic) as the “Flood” mentality. As in; let me save myself, the others can drown.
That said, chivalry is still alive here. Men are expected to be extra courteous to women. Society demands it. That’s why, if a women cuts you off in a queue you are expected to just let it go. Many women will take advantage of that, and to hell with civility.
Reminds me of when my sis came to visit last summer. She is VERY outspoken to other peoples rudeness….anyhow…
She was waiting in the mall bathroom along with several other women for her turn in a stall. In came a niqabi girl and went directly to a stall in which the current user was vacating. My sis jumped forward and grabbed the door before it could be closed by niqabi from the inside. Sis informed niqabi girl that she had to wait like the rest of them…to vacate the stall ASAP….niqabi girl was compeltely blown away by this obvious western women trying to TELL her anything about what she should or shouldnt do…and they went some rounds.
Bottom line…dont mess with my sis when it comes to correcting rude behavoir. Niqabi girl eventually stomped away in a huff and most of the ladies in the bathroom cheered my sis..many of them were other Bahraini ladies as well.
Queue jumping is a horrible trait here and its done hands down by the locals in ANY situation in which waiting for more than a nano second is required…everything from store lines and bathroom queues to red lights and stop signs…nobody wants to wait.
Queue jumpers should die a slow and horrible death. Add me to the list of crass Western women who won’t tolerate someone cutting in line.
That said, I live in an area with a relatively high Arab Muslim population and I’ve never seen a ‘Muslim’ (and by that I mean ‘hijab wearing’) woman queue jump. I suspect that either they get warned very early that Australians frown on it, or someone cops a tongue-lashing and tells their friends that Australians are psychotic freaks when it comes to lines!
I was really amazed by this when I got here,and it was so hard for me to understand why it is done,I must say most Saudis do it and the problem with me I just did not know how to deal with it since it’s something I’ve never faced in my lifetime,I mean it.At the end I resented going out.Then it happened that we talked about this in one of the women’s coffie morning,they told me to shop when most of the Saudis are still sleeping nd it worked.But now after being here for more than a year,I’ve learned to have a big mouth when i go out,I prepare myself.I simply tell the ladies I was here first,with a little bit of an attitude.
Funny, I have seen women do this in many cultures, east and west.
I remember one German lady jumping a long queue I was in and announcing in German to everyone behind her “Ich Hab’ Kein Zeit!” (I have no time).
As if the rest of us did?
It could be the anonymity, or maybe no one taught them it’s wrong.
But i fully agree with the “shop while they sleep” logic.. you’re better off going first thing when the shop opens, those that show up at that hr are more apt to wait their turn.
But i did find the men to be generally more polite though.
This is my solution to line-jumpers (not queue jumpers as I am not British). I just say out loud: “Last time I checked, there was law and order in this country.” Most of the time, the male (as I would not try that with females due to the way I was brought up) would become embarrassed, especially if he was a citizen of the country, and let me go ahead of him as I was waiting ahead of him in line. Try it! It works most of the time.
I have been under the impression that in regards to banks or places where there are more men than women in line it is okay and expected for the woman to go to the head of the line rather than be forced to wait predominantly among men.
And on a funny but kind of related side note since someone also mentioned public washrooms, while here in Houston all of my visiting Saudi relatives have remarked in surprise at the cleanliness of the public washrooms here…no carefully stepping into pools of water or other messes….
In Bahrain I was in one of the malls and the washroom was full of young chickies piling on the make-up, doing hair and taking over the entire bathroom including the cubicles. There was an attendant from India who finally told the girls that they had to allow me to have some space. The girls didn’t mind but I would have had to push them aside had the attendant not done so. The girls spoke English so I got into a wee conversation with them and we had some fun. I saw them later in the mall, some parading for the young men who were watching and some sitting with some young men. Cute!!!
Coolred…
I did not have as bad of an experience in Bahrain when I lived there BUT it happened a few times.
One story that has stuck out for me I think I mentioned on this blog but the subject IS que jumping after all.
I was in Bahrain at a Pakistani wedding and it was generally segregated esp at the meal time. I think there was booze on the other side. lol Anyhow, when the food was put out, the Pakistani women rushed up to the buffet like they were starving. I cried. I didn’t want to appear greedy. I called my then Paki hubby (who was in the other room) and he passed me a plate from the other side. lol
anthrogeek10
coolred, loved the story!
Athrogeek, great story too. But how could you think anybody would think you greedy? Compared to the rest?
For really impeccable queueing go to England! They are very, very disciplined while in a queue!
Actually I think the very negative response you get keeps most people in check over here…
I have used the ”Death-look” myself when people tried to skip lines.
Or, on the other hand, I have asked if I could skip if I had like only one bottle of milk and there were three people with enormous trolleys in line. I got waved in front. And when I have a huge trolley I have offered other people to skip in front of me…
Aafke has a “death look”…one can only wonder what happens when that look gets used
The whole concept really bugs me. I am the kind of guy who puts my truck into the shoulder on the highway to keep people from using it to skip traffic during traffic jams. It bugs me to no end to see everyone else waiting in line and a few people break the law and cut traffic.
So I let my truck block the way and if they dont like it they get a middle finger from me. It my German side……….law and order all the way. (except football “soccer” games………all rules are suspending Saturday afternoon! lol).
People are generally good with lines/queues here too, although one thing that annoys me to no end is you’d have one person in line for something like coffee, and she calls up her friends who want coffee too, and they would join her in line. I don’t mind if there’s one or maybe two others who join their friend in line, but I’ve seen upwards of eight people who barge in line ahead of me just simply because their friend was in line and it is supposedly ‘okay’ to do this. Grr!
I honestly have no comment about this. It happened to me while I was in the Middle East… not in Saudi either. Women had a habit of cutting lines and not caring who was behind them, including old people… I think it’s disrespectful and bad manners. I usually would give them dirty looks and say in Arabic, excuse me, with a certain tone in my voice… funny thing is, the lady moved… lol… but it’s definitely a common, bad habit, everywhere.
I have experienced this as well. I went to the bank, took my number, and sat down to wait my turn. I was sitting directly in front of the teller. My number came up so I stood to approach the teller. When she saw me she flipped the switch to the next number. When I approached her, a Saudi woman PUSHED me away and said “shoo!” Shoo?!? Shoo!?! When I started to say something, the teller told me to go sit down. That is when, in a rather loud voice, I demanded to see the manager. I had to wait through three other female customers before the manager finally arrived and my money was deposited.
You should just drive a car and see how you have to be wary of Saudi women crossing the road.. I swear to God that some of them do not even bother to look for a nano second at the incoming traffic.. or even bother to consider Pedestrian Crossing 5 feet from them. I fear going to the Market in Al Ahsa because I will probably come close to having a heart attack while driving through it.
@DW – you’re right…you often do see Saudi women crossing the street at inappropriate points full of traffic…wonder why that it is exaclty?
They’re stuck in a hellhole, especially for women, and they all have this subconcious desire to kill themselves.
Aafke….ouch!!
And you all want them driving?
Just a joke…
lol afake you have a very bleak outlook on the state of affairs for women in SA.
@Carol, my best guess is that they do that because they are always catered to their needs, they expect the drivers to watch out for them. And apparently, the market is their turf.
In Al Qaseem though it happens the other way around.. they got some people who don’t even give any regard to pedestrians.
@DW – your explanation sounds reasonable to me.
I imagine it must be challenging for Saudis (and others) to come to places like in the States where pedestrians have the right of way!
Munaqaba, Oooops!!!!
@Carol, but what I understand that in the United States, Jay walking is something you will get fined over.. I might have this wrong though.
@DW – yes, you can get fined for jay walking if a policeman is in the vicinity.
This is such a pet peeve of mine. It’s rare for saudi women to understand the meaning of waiting in line. I can never understand why. It used to shock/annoy me but I’ve learnt to stand my ground and tell the cashier real loud; “Excuse me – I was here FIRST’. Doesn’t always work though.
sigh
I can totally relate to this.
, with an even tinier voice. I did say “EXCUSE ME!?!?” twice, but they merely turned, glanced at me with their overdone eyes and then turned back.
Last week, while waiting at KFC at the mall, I was cut in front of by 3 pushy, large women. Then, after they managed to order enough food to feed a small country, I made it back to the counter. Only to be cut in front of again. My husband, who had gotten BK, and was waiting, saw and got annoyed and ended up ordering for me from the Singles line.
I was SO angry, and wish I had done something….but unfortunately, I’m one of those tiny people (i’m 5 feet tall
TX…wow same thing over here…and at KFC no less. 3 niqabies shoved their way to the front of the line…demanded instant service…shouted their orders…practically threw their money at the Filipino then waited all of 5 minutes before complaining about the time it took to get their food. When I complained loudly behind them that some Muslims have no manners…all 3 sets of over made up eyes turned to me and gave me a once over…found me severely wanting and beneath their dignity to respond too and went back to their complaints.
I hope someone in that fastfood joint spit in their food…sorry but some customers deserve a wake up call.
@coolred38, sorry that you had your negative experience.
But if you wanna get into this generalizing business of quoting “Muslim women”, then we could also get in to many aspects of quoting your religion / country….
But you know unlike some of you western expats who enjoy getting cushy jobs in our countries and enjoying it, you don’t have any respect for us. Always you love to generalize all of us saying Arabs/ Muslims, etc when ever you have any trouble. If you hate Arabs / Muslims, Which you do (ask your self truly) then simply pack and leave…
Aby Abdullah…thank you for your spot on diagnosis of what ails me…concluding that I am NOT a Muslim simply because I find other Muslims (and yes that includes the Arab variety) often rude and ignorant.
And I only wish I had a freakin cushy job…wish I had a job at all these days as Im the soul parent to my 5 half Arab children since divorcing my full blooded Arab husband who made life hell for all concerned…then walked away as if Hell doesnt await him…whatever….but thanks for your concern.
I for one do not get too bothered when people disparage “my country” because Im well aware that my country has a lot of changing and learning to do as well…so comment away…and let us discuss…btw do you even know what my country is?
And as for your comment “pack up and leave”..the most common ply given when something is read that one does not like…I answer you this…my children are half Arab…and because I love them more than myself…I remain in a country I do not play well with simply because it is the only home they have ever known. I might talk them into going there someday…but for now it is what it is…but thanks for your snap judgment….you had me pegged there for a minute…as if.
btw the only time I say Arab/Muslims…is when I am speaking of them…after 23.5 years of living among you…I think Im entitled to give my comment…whether it pleases you or not. Have a nice day.
@coolred38: I am sorry for your past, as a human.
But it still doesn’t give you the right to generalize Muslim’s in general no matter what you went through in the past or even if you yourself are a Muslim.
And Just because you lived here for 23.5 it doesn’t give you the right to go across and slam a whole community or country just because a few individuals are jerks.
And you too Have Nice Day…
Please show me where I have slammed “an entire community or country” sir and I shall desist as of this moment ever commenting on this blog again…thank you.
Being Arab yourself does not give you the right to take other peoples rights away to comment about Arabs in general. And I might add there are more than just a “few” jerks out there in the Arab/Muslim world…as there are in the rest of the world.
@coolred38:
Your Comment: “Muslims have no manners” now thats generalizing Muslims, whether you agree or not.
Secondly am not a Arab. But i desist prejudiced and biased talk about a particular community.
Thirdly you don’t have to stop commenting, we need to see your view points too. Though it may at times be based on inaccuracy.
Thank you…
Oops…pardon me for not putting in the word “some”…a mistake due to a hasty reply made on the gym computer. Consider me contrite at my omission.
But to clarify…I do find Muslims to be rather rude for the most part…and thats no generalization from my PERSONAL observations.
Thanks for the clarification now we all know where you stand at.
I am not gonna to stoop low to your level.
Why stoop…a mere lift of the head will be suffice.
I think that there are times when it is difficult to not generalize and no ill intent is meant either.
For example, I think a lot of Saudis have this inherent manner where a simple look or raising of a brow can speak volumes in spite of (if female) where only the eyes are visible. The look seems to be interpreted most commonly as arrogance. I’ve seen it myself when I have observed niqabi women cutting in lines and when someone behind them makes a response, all they do in return is give the LOOK.
One experience I had was quite comical. I was in line and next to be served. Two Saudi females cut in front of me. I said “excuse me” but they ignored me. Then my Saudi mother-in-law who was with me in the store came up and said something softly to them. Next thing I know I’m back first in line and they are behind me! Now the question is, did they feel it was okay to cut in front of me because I was not a Saudi and then when my MIL spoke to them, they did not wish to offend her?
I think coolred was just referring to SOME of the Saudis/Arabs and some Muslims, and accidentally generalized a little. Right?
Not all Muslims are like that. I’m not. Neither is any of my family.
And, neither are all Arabs…(my husband and family).
And, this can be said about SOME non-Muslims in the states and everywhere else in the whole world…the whole being rude and stuff. There’s rude people in every race and religion. I think maybe in Saudi its not thought of as rude to cut.
This blog just happens to be about Saudis, so we were talking about them and stuff.
Wow, American bedu, your mil is cool.
yes indeed…..I have been so blessed with the most beautiful Saudi mother-in-law….or as Aafke would say, She ROCKS!
By the way Aafke….you need to do a post with a picture about the niqab you received from Mama Moudy!!!!
Ah yes…. I’ll try to do that this week
Has anyone been to Egypt? They do the exact same thing here too…It’s quite annoying. I thought it was only in Egypt…When I was in Saudi it seemed a lot more civilized.
I would just like to say, I cover completely when in public (I live in KSA) and the Saudis can’t tell that I am western and they break in front of me and it happens to my western friends as well. I don’t think it’s because we are western, I think it’s just the culture. If you speak up, in Arabic or English, they usually step back. Or just remind the cashier that there is/should be a line and you were next!
Well well well! So it’s the Saudi women’s turn now!
Out of topics about brutal Saudi men, Carol?
Keep reading Maha…I think I touch on all the topics! (LOL)