Interview with Hala, A Saudi Woman in the USA

102 Responses

Jameela, on July 16, 2009 at 4:28 am said:

Great interview!… it’s nice to read about a young Saudi who is active in the community where she lives and studies in the U.S. and it’s nice to hear from the perspective of someone who has lived in both countries : ) Very interesting!
Hani, on July 16, 2009 at 6:06 am said:

“I rediscovered my country again during this time and viewed it with different eyes”
Very well put.
I agree with this statement so much that I might quote it sometime.
Its is such a reassuring feeling to see that Saudis (especially Saudi women) have this passion and drive for getting the best out of living outside the country, not just the academic aspect of the scholarship program but also the lifestyle as well. Unfortunately what Hala mentioned about Saudi men in the program ( I guess even if not students) have basically one of either extreme, total Hippocrates or incredibly nice and open minded people.

Somehow it is that peace of mind that she talked about when keeping your distance from “typical” Saudi, if we can categorize them, that makes the overall experience of the culture that more useful, not to sound pessimistic or socially isolated but you never now it till you experience it.

I wish her all the best in her studies and future life.
coolred38, on July 16, 2009 at 8:09 am said:

She sounds like she was raised to believe in herself and her own abilities…and not raised from cradle to believe she has to depend on a man for everything…whether she actually has to or not.

She has a better head on her shoulders about her life and goals then a great many of us…including myself. I hope even half of her visions for Saudi come true…I would assume that if there are more and more people who dont accept things are the way they are “just because”…then the future looks promising for the women and men of Saudi.

Great interview.
Chiara, on July 16, 2009 at 10:01 am said:

This is an excellent interview!

I admire her intelligence, nuance, and articulateness. She is certainly taking advantage of the opportunities she has. The “obstacle” she mentioned for the Saudi scholarship of requiring official acceptance from a university program is common to all academic scholarships. Her model of breaking the ice of misconceptions with dialogue, including using connections to more positively perceived Arab cultures to facilitate conversation is a good one to follow, and one I have seen other foreign students use, particularly if their country is one of the “axis of evil” ones, or much maligned in the media (including describing oneself as being “Persian” rather than Iranian).

I hope she, and other Saudis like her, both women and men, succeed in their efforts to transform their society in ways they deem positive.
gugu, on July 16, 2009 at 12:11 pm said:

Very nice interview Carol,actually one of the best.She is so independent.She just reminded me of the normal world out there and I feel like packing my bags.I really wish her all the luck,must admit i cried when reading her wishes about Saudi.Just homesick right now.
Medina, on July 16, 2009 at 1:12 pm said:

good interview though you are going to be labled as a secular lady Hala.

an interesting point you made, “”"”I have to point that the misconception is not only among Americans, I faced this in dealing with people of Arab nationalities, I would sense when I say that I came from KSA some tension build up in the air”"”"

do you want to know the answer? It is not misconceptions, It is The ENVY. take it simply. (They hate to see that we have money in our pockets). that is it.
Aafke, on July 16, 2009 at 3:29 pm said:

Carol and Hala, I love the interview, really interesting and enlightening. Hala is a very special, intelligent woman.
I enjoyed reading the interview immensly and also am very impressed by what I think must be her Curriculum Vita.
Manal, on July 16, 2009 at 5:19 pm said:

al Dosari? Any Saudi will be familiar with this name. It is a well known family in Saudi.

I was thinking about the “misconceptions” she talked about in regards to Saudis. I guess we are different in that I am a Saudi woman, but I am cultured in the West as well as educated here. Hala seems, to a certain extent, to be very cultured in Saudi society.

Much of the “misconceptions” she talked about have their root in reality. Saudi society IS oppressive, it IS misogynist. It doesnt mean all Saudis are, but in describing Saudi society in general those are accurate descriptors. Although, to be fair, the same descriptors could be used for all Arab societies, they just apply a bit more to Saudi society.

Good interview. She seems like a nice lady with a good head on her shoulders.

@Medina,

You play on some stereotypes yourself here. Not all Saudis “have money in their pockets” as you claim. There is a sizeable amount of poor people in Saudi. I have seen them myself begging for money.

Besides, if the issues people have were about money alone then the “envy” you speak of wouldnt include countries where the citizens are RICHER than Saudis, ie Kuwaitis and Emirates.

As a Saudi I have had the same “tension built up in the air” with Kuwaitis, Emiratis and those from Qatar and money certainly wasnt to blame for this because as countries they have MORE of it than we do. Kuwait’s, per capita GDP is about 50% more than Saudi, Emirates a bit higher, and Qatar’s GDP is about more than three times the GDP of Saudi.

Money isnt the issue here, but it is a nice excuse to keep people from taking a look at themselves and seeing what the REAL issues are.
Saudi in US, on July 16, 2009 at 6:17 pm said:

Well said Manal, All Saudi’s need to look internally towards our issues and why there are bad perceptions of us. This arrogance about being rich is false. Saudi’s are not richer than citizens of most Gulf Countries, most west Europeans, Americans, Canadians, etc. However, for some reason we think we are better off and we are the envy of the world. I think this arrogance is a contributor to the issues we face.
Aafke, on July 16, 2009 at 7:13 pm said:

Manal and Saudi in US, Always enlightening to read the comments of real Saudies. After all, you are the ones who really know what you are talking about.
gugu, on July 16, 2009 at 8:01 pm said:

@Manal thank so much for mentioning that money is not the issue here.

@Medina what is wrong with you?come on lady,we talking about real issues here.You are being prideful lady.
Medina, on July 16, 2009 at 8:47 pm said:

@ Manal,
are you really saudi?how easy for you to bash your won country fellows?or you make a voice at the expense of saudi society?I really feel sad when I see saudis who think they are cultured and educated bashing their country fellows. It is the fashion these days, to be good educated and cultured saudis, stab your country from behind.

and yes, not all saudis are rich, but the geneal streotype in arab countries is that saudis are rich and they hate to see a dollar at our hands.

@gugu,
I am not a lady, and I did not say that as arrogance, of course not, but I state fact existed in arabs minds. Am I wrong? If you think that I am wrong, ask arabs and you will find what I said is correct. sorry if the idea does not appeal to you. but I know arabs very well and I know their attitudes towards us. They said that cleary in their mass media. and It is not my fault if you are not aware of that. regarding americans, read their comments in blogs, or in youtubes etc, and you will find my word is correct. Hala said that she finds it is not safe when she go out too. but in saudi arabia, you can count your money at 3 am in the street and no one will attack you. do you think that I do not live in the western countries? do you think that I have no idea about how life there?I am living for three years here. you can not imagine that you can be attacked or even shot down at anytime after 5 pm.

Salam
gugu, on July 16, 2009 at 9:00 pm said:

@Medina my apologies for calling you a lady.
anon, on July 16, 2009 at 9:41 pm said:

” you want to know the answer? It is not misconceptions, It is The ENVY. take it simply. (They hate to see that we have money in our pockets). that is it.”

LOL Medina, you are so completely off base it’s not even funny. The reason why other arabs, whether they be from North Africa or Beirut develop such tensions towards Saudis has absolutely nothing to do with “envy” because “saudis have money”. The idea is absolutely laughable. My father happens to be one of these so called envious arabs. The reason he is so “envious” lol, is because according to him Saudis are greedy, selfish, arrogant, and have no respect for anyone but themselves. They treat everyone around them except white people like absolute dog poop and he would rather die of starvation in a gutter than bring himself to work in a country where he would be treated as , according to him, subhuman. I’ve had many men in my family go to Saudi to work and all of them came home after only a year or 6 months or so and stated they’d rather die poor. At least their dignity would remain in tact.

Their words, not mine. Also his opinions, not my own so please don’t attack me lol. For the record i’ve met quite a few Saudi ladies, mainly at my university and all have been lovely.

Your comment was about as ridiculous as the Americans who like to go around blabbing about how the brown people of the world “hate us for our freedom”
Jerry M, on July 16, 2009 at 10:11 pm said:

I enjoyed reading this interview. I have read Hala’s blog for a while and it was nice to learn a little more about her than on might from casually reading her blog posts.
Gabrielle, on July 16, 2009 at 10:42 pm said:

First off Carol, I thoroughly enjoy your Q/A of different people. One point I wanted to make to your interviewer, Hala was… I have a friend in ar-Riyād̨ who is a medical doctor formally from Alexandria. As a professional man, his options for a higher salary was found in S.A.. We formally agree to disagree on certaion issue.. one being his narrowmindness in thinking a woman couldn’t be an efficent Judge. He has stated woman are to emotional and this would affect their rulings. He has been limited in his travels and I think this intercedes in his narrowmindness. Your right your county is a young and things change slowy. I commend you for your hopes and dreams for the future of Saudi Arabia.
Kalimaat, on July 16, 2009 at 11:33 pm said:

Medina

You are an intelligent woman and you know it is not all down to ENVY. Do you think it could be how Saudi treats workers from poorer Arab countries? Take Egypt for example, Saudi has flogged two Egyptian Doctors recently. Back in 1995 an Egyptian father accused a Saudi headmaster of sexually abusing his son, instead of investigating the case, the Saudis ordered the father to be lashed for slander and deported back. Maybe if your citizens were being treated like that, you would have another opnion.
gugu, on July 17, 2009 at 1:09 am said:

In all my travelling in the world I’ve never seen so much pride as in the most Saudis.

@Medina,was just talking to my egyptian neighbours and I asked them about the envy you claiming they have for Saudi.They said keep fooling yourself,that’s all.They said you not even 1st world country for that matter.They said I must ask you what is Saudi without oil.To me Egyptians,Kuawatis,emiratis etc they all look civilized than Saudis.
Manal, on July 17, 2009 at 2:29 am said:

Last time I checked, yep, I surely am Saudi. But Alhamdulillah, I am a Muslim and I realize nations mean nothing for they are artificial creations of man!!

Of course it is easy to bash Saudi Arabia, cause such “fellows” like your self, make it so!! LOL

You feel sad for those who open their eyes to the TRUTH??!! This is too laughable! I guess with someone like you, ignorance is truly bliss. It is much EASIER for people such as yourself to pretend at the expense of those who are suffering.

I bet you are one who deals with the ROYALS thus you have to kiss ***, eh???? It shows by your statements (hahaha, we have money, hahaha). I wonder what you will do when your ROYALS fall (and they will, it is just a matter of time)??? For everything, my fellow, there is an ENDING! But then, will you still support your so called “fellows” and their fallen Kingdom??

It is such a disgrace that the two holy mosques are in this place!! But you see, God has given something wonderful to the people yet only the people turned around and gave God the middle finger!!!!

Well, go right ahead my fellow, love thy kingdom!!! Not only are you ignorant but you are also extremely full of yourself! GAHIL WA MAGROOR, Subhan’Allah!!
Chiara, on July 17, 2009 at 5:15 am said:

Medina–Although I knew from the beginning you were a man, it seems many confuse your city name with a feminized name, I must confess I initially thought it was a beautiful and familiar name but couldn’t quite place it! LOL I like to think it is because I have become more accustomed to the more Arabic transliteration Madinah, and am used to Romance language names ending in “a”.

I would agree that Saudis abroad, at least, are perceived by locals with a certain degree of envy for their wealth, and the ability to afford what the locals cannot–or at least to travel in relative comfort. To some extent this is the plight of all “rich tourists” for example the Japanese–they are wealthy enough to travel long distances, and to pay for relatively high priced tours, own expensive cameras, etc.

Hala seems to agree with you that money is part of the negative perception of Saudis abroad:
What seem to be the most typical and common misperception people have about Saudi Arabia?
Much negativity I’m afraid. That Saudis are misogynist, oppressive and ignorant religious-fanatics who happen to have a lot of money, [...] and those negative images were also supported by the attitude of some Saudis abroad unfortunately,

In my own experience in Morocco and Spain, there is a perception of Saudis arriving with a great deal of money (compared to the average Moroccan or Spaniard), to spend freely on holiday, and sometimes to indulge in behaviours unacceptable at home. The impression of wealth is exacerbated by the immense Saudi palace in Marbella.

A Tunisian student of mine in France, who was considered in the same negative light as all North Africans, by the police for example (extra ID checks for no reason, etc), told me that, when he went to London to study, they assumed he was Saudi because of his excellent English, and because at that time the conception in London was Arab=Saudi. This led to the assumption that he was rich! He laughed at the contrast with the assumption in France that as an Arab=North African he must be poor, dishonest, and a thief; and with the reality that he was poor, and (mostly) honest, and certainly not a thief.
American Bedu, on July 17, 2009 at 5:27 am said:

I want to thank everyone for the wonderful comments and encourage more individuals to share their views. I also wish to again thank Hala for the opportunity to interview her.
Medina, on July 17, 2009 at 11:14 am said:

Dear anon, Kalimaat
Thanks for your comment and I do apologize for the delay in reply because of the time difference. But let me at first correct a confusion here for everyone, I am not “A Lady”. Medina is where I live and ,in Saudi we pronounce it Al Madinah but in English dictionaries, it is spelled Medina. So, I chose this spelling because I thought it will be recognized easily by readers but it seems that it caused confusion among readers maybe because the readers are more familiar with AL Madinah spelling.

Regarding your point, I know that we are not living in the heaven city. Committing mistake is a human aspect, so, Saudis are not angels and we commit mistakes like everyone else. I will assume that the Egyptians are angels generally and they never make a mistake especially in the two cases you mentioned and they are were treated unfairly though their cases went through trials especially the case of doctors, and they found the doctors guilty for causing a Saudi patient to become addicted to morphine and they used their medical clinic for harassing sexually their female patients. Let me ask you a question here, for how long Egyptians are living in Saudi whether for work or for living there? Millions of Egyptians are living with us since 1970s, That is, they live with us for more than 40 years, and during these 40 years, two ostensible cases of mistreatment make you think that the misconceptions about Saudis are due to mistreatment, if I will take this on the account and use your criterion to judge Egyptian people, I can point finger to the six Saudis citizens who were killed in Egypt at the effect of the crisis of the Egyptian headmaster in 1995. did Saudis judge Egyptians and called them names? Did Saudis hurt anyone of the Egyptian residents in saudi because of these crimes against Saudis in Egypt? Of course no.
to investigate my claim that the Envy is the cause of this “misconception” let us check out what the Egyptians said about Saudis when they were asked by gugu, they stated “They said keep fooling yourself, that’s all. They said you not even 1st world country for that matter. They said I must ask you what is Saudi without oil”

Thank you gugu for that, This is actually a good example that maintain how much envy is planted in their hearts and the derogatory view they hold towards us. So, from this discussions, we can conclude that what I said about Envy is fact existed in Arab hearts against Saudis. And anything else, like mistreat etc, psychologically operate to reinforce this Envy deeply in their hearts. So, It adds to envy and do not undermine it. The last point that I must ask, why do not you admit that it is the Envy behind “misconception”? Why people think that I am arrogant because I stated these facts existed in their hearts? I did not come up with something from my imagination, I stated what Arabs say. And although they know that Envy is existed in their hearts against us, they get angry when we mention that to them and start accusing us of arrogance.

Last point to anon, believe me, you did not come up with something new, we used to hear this arabic song for along time, but let me tell you something, you are the heavenly angels that never do mistakes, but whinnying all the time and never say Thank you to anyone give you a hand.

Dear Manal
Thanks for showing me where you fit.

Dear gugu
Thanks for your comment. And thanks for making my task easily to show to the readers that what I claimed is fact existed and it is nothing new and not arrogance.

Dear Chiarah,
As you are always, great in your comments. Your comment is stated very well. And it reflects the reality. And I agree with you in what you said.

Salam to all
Kalimaat, on July 17, 2009 at 12:56 pm said:

Medina

I am not blaming a few Saudi individuals behaviour, the problem is the SYSTEM itself that allows poorer Arab workers open to mistreatment. I mentioned a few cases, but there are thousands of workers who have faced discrimination and mistreatment who are from the Middle East. Abuse of foreign worker’s rights in Saudi is well documented, dont bury your head in the sand and blame it on envy.
Medina, on July 17, 2009 at 1:51 pm said:

Dear Kalimaate,
I will turn a blind eye to an expression you used in your post this time, and I recommend that you read the blog instructions above.
You are confusing me, the first time, you spoke about Saudis, and now you are shifting the focus to the Saudi system of Labor. I hope that you present your argument clearly and address every points that do not appeal to you instead of throwing words and calling big names. I posted the Saudi system of Labor that was released by Saudi Ministry of Labor in this blog at the following link, http://americanbedu.com/2008/01/21/renewal-of-iqama/

I recommend that you view the link and read the system and tell me, where Saudi system of labor makes expatriates subject to “discrimination”, mistreat etc.

Have a look there to the system and prove your accusations here.

Salam.
Medina, on July 17, 2009 at 1:53 pm said:

Dear Kalimaate,
I will turn a blind eye to an expression you used in your post this time, and I recommend that you read the blog instructions above.
You are confusing me, the first time, you spoke about Saudis, and now you are shifting the focus to the Saudi system of Labor. I hope that you present your argument clearly and address every points that do not appeal to you instead of throwing words and calling big names. I posted the Saudi system of Labor that was released by Saudi Ministry of Labor in this blog at the following link, http://americanbedu.com/2008/01/21/renewal-of-iqama/

I recommend that you view the link and read the system and tell me, where Saudi system of labor make expatriates subject to “discrimination”, mistreat etc.

Have a look there to the system and prove your accusations here.

Salam.
Medina, on July 17, 2009 at 1:55 pm said:

Dear Kalimaate,
I will turn a blind eye to an expression you used in your post this time, and I recommend that you read the blog instructions above.
You are confusing me, the first time, you spoke about Saudis, and now you are shifting focus to the Saudi system of Labor. I hope that you present your argument clearly and address every points that do not appeal to you instead of throwing words and calling big names. I posted the Saudi system of Labor that was released by Saudi Ministry of Labor in this blog at the following link, http://americanbedu.com/2008/01/21/renewal-of-iqama/

I recommend that you view the link and read the system and tell me, where Saudi system of labor make expatriates subject to “discrimination”, mistreat etc.

Have a look there to the system and prove your accusations here.

Salam.
Abu Sinan, on July 17, 2009 at 3:38 pm said:

@Kalimaat,

It isnt just “the system” it is a general mindset in the Saudi society where they think they are better than other Arabs, certainly better than Indians, Pakistanis and Africans.

Not all Saudis are like this, but the society as a whole sure is. I learned my first racist terms in Arabic from Saudis who were blasting Africans and Pakistanis.

Saudis think they are top of the ladder in regards to Arabs. Africans and Pakistanis…….they dont even rate. When it comes to the West and white people Saudis tend to be a bit schizo. They love to have white people working for them. This is why a white Westerner in the front office of one of their companies will make 3-4 times the money of the Pakistanis and Indians in the back rooms doing all of the real work.

But this isnt just Saudis, you see it in Kuwait, Dubai, Bahrain and Qatar as well.

So there is a sort of inferiority complex when it comes to Westerners, but it is okay, they can always bash them for being immoral even as they jeet off with their 15 year old son for a sex vacation in Thailand. No need, all of the men in the family have already raped the Indonesian maid anyways.

@Medina,

A great man once said that nationalism is the last refuge of scoundrels. Glad to see you so predictably play the nationalism tune.

@Chiara,

I think you are confused if you think Medina’s real name is “Medina”. They have made it clear that they come from Medina, even if they are so deluded to think every version of The Qur’an is translated and printed in Medina.

Nationalism does that…….warps people into thinking their country is better than every other country and can do no wrong.

Besides, nationalism is a non Islamic concept and at it’s heart is VERY haram.
Manal, on July 17, 2009 at 3:57 pm said:

Dear Medina,

Get a REAL life my “fellow”!! LOL One that doesn’t require kissing so much booty!!! LOL Heard of PRIDE and DIGNITY???

Salam to you!:)
mariam, on July 17, 2009 at 5:05 pm said:

Wonderful interview…as the subject of the interview done earlier by American Bedu, I thought it was interesting how similar my views are to Hala’s. We are both in love with the US constitution, the books, the non-censorship, etc. We both see way beyond the driving issue. We both have very supportive family members. We both wish for change in our home.
I had to laugh when the first comment was regarding Hala’s family name, which is why I never revealed mine. It is regrettable that it does help to come from “prestigious” families, where members might have a worldliness from travel or education. I wish it were otherwise, and that opportunities existed for all.
I found it interesting that Hala also did not cover. The “covering” automatically makes one MORE of an object – draws more attention, and stops much communication. Is it secular? Well, you know my feelings about covering and Islam. I am sure Hala is as modest as I am when it comes to dress.
Regarding others views of saudis – I found other arabs to expect me to be “holier” and more pious. I try never to judge other muslims, as that is antithesis to the religion. Yes, sometimes they do expect us all to be rich…and we are fortunate to have a huge scholarship system.
As a saudi woman, I do have to say that I have seen a certain class distinction developing between saudis and “others”. This was not the case in early days when bedus flocked to early oil sites for work. ( I cannot imagine what those managers went through trying to teach bedus how to hold a 9 – 5 job and show up each day). As citizens of other countries came to KSA for work, and as early oil wealth enabled us to have a semi-socialized society, we, saudis, have decided that only certain jobs are good enough for us. Many of you who know me from this blog have heard me lament about our lack of work ethic. So the two factors, the socialized benefits and the bedu heritage have really changed saudi society.

Bravo, Carol, for finding this young woman. I do not feel so alone now.
radha, on July 17, 2009 at 5:08 pm said:

@medina – It’s great that you are proud to be a saudi, you should be too. But you also do have to recognize the faults in the system, only then youngsters like you can attempt to change it.

First corruption is a fact of life in saudi and don’t take offense at that, lots of countries in Asia are that way, In india a group of Youngsters now are refusing to play that game and trying to bring awareness, a long way to go but still there’s a slow awakening, the media is also begining to report all these instances, but this was possible only when people living there acknowlegde that there is corruption. so likewise saudi’s have to recognize it and the try to change it.

Second as for discrimination, I’m indian married to a saudi and a doctor . Lots of people in saudi assumed that i was the nanny/maid i’m serious , they never gave a thought as to why the kids look like me or why the saudi man was smiling and chatting to me. A few of his aquaintances having met us outside with the kids have enquired about his family ??? huh 1 man,1 woman,2 kids with dark hair/black eyes kind of resembling the women and still no clue ?? sorry it is a mindset. Lots of people have asked my spouse why he had to marry down inspite of being a dr.

But it’s a young country and change will come – i.e. only if people recognize that there are problems that need to be changed
American Bedu, on July 17, 2009 at 5:08 pm said:

@Mariam – thanks for your comment and added insights. Yes, indeed, I also noticed many similarities between you and Hala.
Kalimaat, on July 17, 2009 at 5:40 pm said:

Medina

What expression? A discussion with you is futile because you are unwilling to recognise that your country is imperfect. There is nothing wrong with being proud of our nationality, culture, traditions but it should not cloud our judgements. Being critical of your country doesnt make you a traitor or less patriotic.
Chiara, on July 17, 2009 at 5:45 pm said:

Medina–Thank you for your kind words. I always enjoy your comments, and see them as loving of Saudi and wanting your country to do better, build on the positives, and make progress on the negatives.

Abu Sinan–Thank you for your clarification, but I had assumed Medina was a “nom de plume” (or “nom d’ordinateur”/ “nom de bloggueur”), and was only stuck initially on the “where have I heard that name/word before?” while running through my mental files of Spanish, Italian and Arabic vocabularies and names. Finally it dawned on me that the chosen “nom de plume” was Al-Madinah anglicized–duh! LOL
As far as the Quranic translations go, I think it was a reference to Saudi translations to English of the Quran which are freely distributed to libraries, mosques, and on campuses, in both senses of freely, ie widely and for free. At worst is was an overstatement in the heat of a comments exchange, and I see no evidence of delusion. LOL
Nationalism can be devastating as the wars since the rise of nationalism in the 19th century, and its extension to former colonies in the 20th, attest. However, national pride, caring, and concern, can inspire people to work to improve their country though, in both its domestic and foreign affairs.

Mariam–an excellent comment, and I enjoyed the added nuances.

Radha–it would seem to be built into tribal societies that “outsider” is broadly defined, and widely applied. Also the emphasis in such societies on bloodlines and generational knowledge of an individual, and on honour, public reserve, and dignity slow the process of evolution towards a more multiculturally accepting society. I think your comment on the youth of Saudi as a country, and as a rapidly developing country that experienced sudden wealth, goes a long way to explain current societal challenges, especially as Saudi is more populous, larger and more regionally diverse than its peninsular neighbours.
mariam, on July 17, 2009 at 6:17 pm said:

LOL @ nom de bloggueur!!! Trademark it, Chiara.
Abu Sinan, on July 17, 2009 at 7:17 pm said:

@Chiara,

“Medina” made a pretty clear claim that every Qur’an in any mosque I might visit would be from Medina. It just isnt true. As I pointed out, the most popular translation is a Pakistani one.

As to the “freely distributed” idea of Qur’ans by the Saudis, you’d have to rethink that one since 9/11.

The Saudis closed their religious office here in DC located at their Embassies and pointed REFUSE to give Qur’ans for free distribution.

I know because one of my supervisors at work contacted them several years in a row trying to get them to hand out at our annual community day. The religious office……….no Qur’ans.
Medina, on July 17, 2009 at 8:27 pm said:

I am here to have a decent academic debate built in evidences and proofs about my country to build on for better future not for playing games of accusations or using derogatory words or expressions that everyone can easily use. if someone call me a name whether directly or contextually, I will turn a blind eye to his/her posts and say Samahak Allah and I will neglect his/her comments for not feeding negativity. Some of comments posited here are derogatory and some of them praying for the destruction of my country and they are waiting the day of the “fall” of Saudi Arabia. Do you think that such comments are posited for more promising “development” of Saudi Arabia socially culturally politically etc? if this is the development, “ fall of Saudi Arabia” politically, culturally and socially, people seek in here, I refuse it and I will stand against it. The time that I see a building criticism, built on proofs and hold positive intentions for better future, I will be happy of it.
Most of the points raised in here are just bashing Saudis, throwing false terms or accusations, such as racism, mistreatment, discrimination etc, I am sure 100% that all these social problems are existed everywhere in the whole world, last event of Marwa alsharbeni in Germany is still easily to remind. Discrimination, is very well known in American and that is why they launched the affirmative action program for blacks. Mistreatment, ask poor ladies about that, and check out how sex dealers take advantage of them for money in “developed countries” that call for human rights. So, Before you point finger to Saudi, especially in these terms, “discrimination”, “racism”, “mistreatment”, you have to check yourself first, because you will find it round you, especially in Egypt, where torturing people is very common in police stations.
Hence, if you have a point that does not appeal to you in Saudi Arabia, please, for good and positive conversation, introduce it with proofs and use a decent language. And acknowledge the related positive aspects of it before you start criticizing the negativity, for more unbiased conversation.

Dear Abu,
Thanks for your fatwa that you issued to forbid that I love my country. I am not surprised by the way, My love for my country became a sin and backwardness. I recommend that you read the blog instructions as well.

Dear Manal,
I recommend that you read the blog instructions.

Dear mariam,
good comment but try not to join the “new fashion” trend in here.

Dear radha,
corruption is everywhere. so it is relative in every country. we are not the best and we are not the worst we are in a middle position, 77/178 among world countries. and we work for developing our country every day socially politically etc. and try to remember we are a young country founded in 1932. but we made impressive change and progress in every fields of our life in short terms comparing to countries who founded ages before us and we passed them now. we are under criticism because we maintain our social norms and protect them. see where we are? we want to change but gradually to maintain our stability and to avoid any social problems that occur and may destroy what we built so far. we alwayes Thanks God for God’s blessing. so, we develop but wisely.

Dear Kalimaat,
Read your comment again to check out the expression that you used and I wished that you said ” may God forgive the Saudi guys who were killed in Egypt” unfortunately, you did not even stop on them. And again please read the Saudi system of labor and tell me where the problem is. Last point, No one, no country is perfect.

Dear Chiara,
Thanks for your comments, always enlightening one. yes, I admit I love every single grain of sand in my country.

Salam
munaqabah, on July 17, 2009 at 8:58 pm said:

This is sad… everyone’s bashing everyone else… It’s true that in Saudi (and the Gulf) people are treated according to an unofficial hierarchy depending on their nationality, and there is arrogance.

But then what about the caste system, which is alive and well in India? And how about accusing all Saudi (or Gulf) men of raping their maids and taking their 15-year-old sons to Thailand for sex vacations?

Why don’t we all stop all of this…?
Abu Sinan, on July 17, 2009 at 9:04 pm said:

@Medina,

If you accept that corruption is everywhere, why do take such pains to minimise it in Saudi?

Everyone but YOURSELF here recognises that it is a MAJOR issue in Saudi.

It is such an issue that it has threatened international relations. The al Yamamah corruption scandal caused a major issue between the UK. Let me fill you in. Members of the royal family of Saudi Arabia were paid BILLIONS to facilitate defense contracts.

The BILLIONS of dollars were then laundered in official Saudi Arabian government accounts. When the UK government wanted to get to the bottom of this through investigation the Saudi government issued them with threats.

As much as 6 billion pounds were taken, that is around $10 billion dollars. So there you go…….the Princes in the Saudi royal family collect sums of $10 for one set of contracts……religious judge takes $10,000 to fast tracka divorce and give a baby to a heroin addict.

Get used to it……..it’s YOUR country. Oh wait……you are simply a subject. Get used to it…….it is THEIR country.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/baefiles/page/0,,2095831,00.html
Abu Sinan, on July 17, 2009 at 9:06 pm said:

Munaqabah,

This is a blog and a subject dealing with Saudi Arabia, so we talk about Saudi. If Carol ever does a blog about India and posts about the caste system we can talk about the Indian caste system.

Until then let’s stick to Saudi! As a Muslim it pains me to see the Land of the Two Holy Mosques ruled by such a corrupt regime and to have such unIslamic practices reign in the country.
mariam, on July 17, 2009 at 9:10 pm said:

Dear Medina,
I am sorry – what new fashion trend do you mean in your comment directed towards me?

Re: corruption in KSA. I think the USA,Canada, and a handful of other countries are the EXCEPTION regarding bribery/corruption. Yes, of course, you can find it everywhere…but let’s face it, it is a way of life in most of the world. In most countries, you can’t even go to trial because it will never happen…and lower level officials are always on the take, even policemen.
Abu Sinan, on July 17, 2009 at 9:11 pm said:

“Millions went to Bandar, according to US sources. Up to $30m (£15m) at a time is alleged to have been paid into his dollar account at Riggs Bank [profile] in Washington.”

This and other Saudi money issues basically ruined the Riggs Bank here in the USA. Saudi government is SO toxic that they switched most of their accounts to Canadian banks so as to avoid further Congressional investigations of it.

The situation was so bad that the Saudi Embassy here in the DC area had to shut their accounts and not pay employees or students in the USA for over a month until it could get sorted out.

Meanwhile members of the royal family were getting paid $30 million dollars at a time into their accounts. I guess that would explain how these same people can afford houses worth more than $100 million………and have more than one of them.

But of course, you are a subject. Subject to them, their rules and their corruption. So as any good subject one must be quiet and accept their lot.

Thank GOD for accountable, elected officials.
Abu Sinan, on July 17, 2009 at 9:16 pm said:

@Mariam,

I understand what you are saying, but we are talking about Saudi and Medina would have us believe that it is not a serious issue in Saudi.

It is a VERY serious issue that has, at times, even threatened international relationships. Instead of sorting out the issue, as in the al Yamamah scandal, the governmetn just issued threats and went back to business as usual.

Corruption on this scale, this magnitude, doesnt happen in the West.

Amazing, the same man who got $10 billion dollars REFUSED to make sure my widowed MIL got her monthly pension of $1,600 after it had been shut off for a year.

Amazing.
mariam, on July 17, 2009 at 9:49 pm said:

Dear Abu Sinan,
I agree that many KSA officials have become blinded by $$. To throw money at a problem which is the traditional arab way- even our charity is based on direct contribution – is inexcusable among the elite who are educated and understand accountability. When I talk to these people, they truly think it is “their money” and “their right” to use and keep as they want.

It reminds me of the puritans of yore, who believe your birth defined your rank and social status, i.e., “the poor will always be with us”.

One cannot have it both ways – be educated and sophisticated, and yet behave as a bedu/tribal sheikh, pirating and keeping it all.
Medina, on July 17, 2009 at 9:56 pm said:

@Abu
this “scandal” was 30 years ago. It was in 1980s. and the “ostensible bribes” went to Saudi government account in Washington according to American sources as well. Saudi Embassy is a government body , remember that. and I am not going to bash my country and ask for its destruction because of this amount of money that prince Bander denied that it went to his private account, he said, it went to the Saudi Embassy account in Washington and then to the Ministry of defense accounts. And this event happened 30 years ago.
yes, it is a suspicious case but we will never take it as an excuse to call for the “ fall of Saudi Arabia” because this will cost us trillions of dollars and it will make us go back hundreds of years. Look at Iraq, and what happened there because of the “DEMOCRACY”.

So, we are OK, we work for tomorrow and better future.

@ Mariam,
The “new fashion trend” is bashing Saudi people in here.

Salam.
Abu Sinan, on July 17, 2009 at 9:58 pm said:

@Mariam,

You are SO right. It is a societal issue, from top to bottom. In monarchies like the KSA that is how everything happens, top to bottom.

I still can’t get my mind over it. Having billions of dollars but being unwilling to guarantee the pension of the widow of a man you knew personally, whose children played with your children, the widow’s brother taught you him to fly!

Goes to show you however, once you loose the ability to do something for someone, even the smallest charity disappears!
Abu Sinan, on July 17, 2009 at 10:05 pm said:

@Medina,

That scandal was a major issue in the last few years. It wasnt found out until recently and when the Brits wanted to investigate it the Saudi government threatened that if they did investigate bad things would happen!

Reports show that the Ambassador at that time used the Embassy accounts as his own, withdrawing money as his own as well as covering government items.

How else do you explain two houses in the US with a combined value of over $200 million dollars? Never mind a house in the UK worth tens of millions? I am glad you are happy to have your government rob you blind, but not all Saudis are!

I am stting here laughing when you say that if Saudi Arabia got democracy it would go back hundreds of years. Democracy in Saudi would finally see it hit the modern world.

Pointing to Iraq is a scare tactics your leaders use. if the Saudi people themselves installed a new elected government there would be no “Iraqi nightmare scenario”. How easily you take the drugs being fed you!

The new fashion trend here is being honesy. Medina is caught up in the old fashion of “my country do or die” and keeping his head in the sand.

Interesting, but the only Saudis I know that go to this length are those who depend on their connections to the royal family for their livelyhood. Those people who could not make it in a fair and competitive environment.
Medina, on July 17, 2009 at 10:12 pm said:

@Abu
we are not ready socially for “DEMOCRACY”
are you going to be happy to see A Taliban regime running saudi arabia?

we need to redefine people social norms first and they accept that socially and implement it. it is step follow step.

salam
Abu Sinan, on July 17, 2009 at 10:19 pm said:

@Medina,

All, now the old “taliban” threat/scare tactic is pulled out. An oldie, but a goodie.

But I dont understand what issues you are talking about? From your comments here I thought Saudi was next to heaven with very little issues.

Now you are saying that Saudi society is SO messed up that if they were allowed to be adults and choose who leads them that the whole place would blow up?

As to a Taliban regime running Saudi……considering the Taliban’s stance on corruption, ie death penalty, I am sure a lot of the leaders in Saudi would dread that! I am sure former King Fahad’s golden plated faucets in his juccuzi laden Boeing 747 is quaking at the thought!
mariam, on July 17, 2009 at 10:28 pm said:

Dear Medina & Abu Sinan,
perhaps we should move to the debate page.
Ya Medina, I actually agree with you. It gives me the shivers to think what would happen in the case of a power vacuum. The vast majority of saudis are waaaay too conservative and uneducated not to be swayed by extremist clerics. I am not sure it would be of “Taliban proportions”, but why take the chance?
Abu, Kind Fahad is dead. Please give the King and education reforms a chance to do their work. As for the prince you are alluding to, Bandar, yes? – there is no hiding from allah. Regarding people supportive of the regime, make their living by their alliance to the royal family – perhaps….however, I am alsaud, do NOT take a monthly allowance, and call for reform. And there are many of us.
salam.
mariam, on July 17, 2009 at 10:29 pm said:

oops i obviously meant King Fahad, not “kind” LOL
mariam, on July 17, 2009 at 10:31 pm said:

PS some of the children of Bandar are among the reformists. Do not forget the mother is alfaisal.
Medina, on July 17, 2009 at 11:19 pm said:

@Abu,
I do not think that you understand Saudi society as much as I understand it. Saudis are adherent strongly to Islam, does that make them bad? of course NOT, so, the one who will win the Saudi votes is the religious party “if there is a democracy”. Because in Islam, the source of legislation is the Quran and sunnah, and the ruler will be chosen or elected by shura, (consultation) committee consists of the prominent people in the society, ulama, scholars, wise people, etc, not by election. And this committee will choose the Hakem, Caliph, who can implement the Sharia law in the society. In all Islamic history, there is NOTHING called Democracy. Because democracy means that people rule the country and they are the source of legislation. when I say Taliban regime, I mean that it will be a 100% Islamic regime. and they will not negotiate with anyone about social change and they will diminish anything does not concur with sharia law . so Saudis at this moment will never acknowledge the social change that you seek, because it is not Islamic, it is built on the notion that everyone is free. we do not have this in Islam, in Islam, people have no right to decide what legislations they like or dislike. the legislation is the Quran and the prophet’s traditions. any innovation is considered “Beda”, so the social change that you seek is not applicable. you want a secular system run Saudi Arabia simply. This is refused by Saudi people. But that does not make Saudis bad.

By the current regime, we are doing well, at least, we can negotiate and try to change the social norms gradually as much as people accept it.

Last point, I have never claimed that Saudis are perfect, I say we have social problems like anyone else, and we are working day and night to solve them. And actually we did pass along term of progress socially, economically, politically, etc.

salam
Aafke, on July 18, 2009 at 12:11 am said:

Medina; ”we need to redefine people social norms first and they accept that socially and implement it. it is step follow step. ”

You’re kidding right?
if it wasn’t for the Al Sauds and their wahhabbi accomplices, who destroyed the cultural and intellectual far more developed parts of what is now KSA, having a democracy would be no problem.
You’re from the hijaz or so you claim, you should know that all these current cultural norms and ideologies were forced upon your people only 80 years ago.

What about the rest of the Arabs? Kuwait, Qatar, UAE, they had no problems doing it fast.
So there’s something very wrong going on in KSA which is different as in the rest of the Arabian peninsula.
three guesses what it is….
munaqabah, on July 18, 2009 at 3:05 am said:

I wouldn’t be so quick to name democracy as the answer to all the problems, The rest of the Gulf looks at Kuwait, with their National Assembly and critical press, and they see that elected members worry about re-election; thus, they spend their time playing politics, and nothing gets done.
Abu Sinan, on July 18, 2009 at 6:20 am said:

@Medina,

The al Sauds…………the Taliban. Two evils. Who is to say who is worse? Besides, just having a radical religious establishment and elections doesnt mean talibanisation. Iran anyone? They dont have an ideal situation but they certainly are much farther along in the process than Saudi is.

@Medina,

If you think there has never been anything like democracy in the Islamic world you are completely wrong. You claim to live in the Hijaz. Are you unaware of the history of the Hijaz?

When the first al Saud conquered the Hijaz he was really worried that after the massacre in Taif that international forces might interviene. To try to keep this from happing he reined in the ikhwan in places like Mecca and Medina and actually set up a quasi democratic council called “al majlis al ahli” that was comprised of members of the ulema, merchants and nobels, ALL ELECTED!

This majlis had powers current councils in Saudi could only DREAM of. The only limitation on their scope was military and international issues.

The Hijaz even got its own constitution in 1926, but was just valid in the Hijaz and not elsewhere in Saudi.

It is only later, when he had secured power, that the King removed many of these reforms which lead to the dictatorship/monarchy there is today.

Why am I having to teach you this stuff? I thought they rammed this Saudi history down the throats of young Saudis. Oh…………..wait…………I bet they dont advertise that the people of the Hijaz had more rights and representation in 1926 than they do in 2009.

I guess I dont blame them for not wanting people to know this.
Chiara, on July 18, 2009 at 6:23 am said:

Mariam–thanks for the LOL, and trademarking suggestion! Consider it done LOL! Your other comments have been very enlightening and nuanced. I congratulate you again on your awareness of your privilege, and also on wanting to use your intelligence, education, and position to advance your country. You are quite right that young people from prominent families are often not in agreement with the societal structures, and are well positioned to contribute to their transformation.

Abu Sinan–I’ve re-read the comment on the other thread, and still think that it is at worse an overstatement in the heat of a conversation. In Canada Saudi translated and published Qurans are freely distributed on campus and on the street, at street events. The ones I was looking at recently and discussed with a very pleasant, helpful and non-pushy male Middle Eastern student, were part of a display by the university Muslim Students Association. They (more than one copy and edition) and other written materials, as well as a film screenng, were available and free to all. It is my understanding from others that there are similar Qurans in the mosques, or the libraries of the madrassahs. Qurans are also provided for swearing in at citizenship ceremonies, but I am not sure by whom. Next time I attend one I will check. Their presence was certainly welcomed by the new Muslim Canadians. It seems the restriction in distribution in the US was US rather than Saudi inspired.

Transparency International’s Bribe Payer Index evaluates which of 22 countries are most likely to pay corporate bribes abroad, what sectors are most likely to bribe officials, and which sectors try to use the bribes to influence the state appartatus/politics of the country receiving the bribe. Most likely to bribe Russia, China, Mexico, India; least likely Belgium/Canada (tied), Netherlands/Switzerland (tied). US tied in 9th place of least likely to bribe with France and Singapore. Saudi was not assessed in this index. The most corrupt sectors are public works contract and construction, oil and gas, real estate, heavy manufacturing, and mining.

Medina and Munaqabah–I agree a more civil discussion of ideas and information would be more fruitful in expanding knowledge and insight.

Munaqabah– I agree. Rapid change from an absolute monarchy to a “democracy” is a recipe for violence, chaos, and the imposition of a rigid non-monarchical sytem as has been witnessed in countless revolutions around the world. The US revolted against a constitutional monarchy without divine right of kings and with a well formed parliamentary system, but still suffered greatly from its Revolutionary war. Other places have fared less well after the overthrow than before. Progressive change toward a genuine constitutional monarchy would seem to be a better option for a number of Arab states with an absolute monarchy or a constitutional monarchy with a parliament with extremely limited real power.
Medina, on July 18, 2009 at 10:06 am said:

@ Abu,
The council that you are speaking about was NOT ELECTED by People. It was appointed by people who are powerful in the society. WE ALL MUSLIMS, Have never known something called DEMOCRACY. WE Have Shuwra. The problem is that you do not distinguish between them. Shuwra is for implementing sharia law, They do not have a secular law to follow and it is rejected.

you need also to update your information which seem that it stopped in 1924. Saudis have changed whether you ascribe this change to radical version of Islam or not. The point that, the Saudi people you are speaking about in 1924 are different from the Saudi people in 2009. so I will deal with Saudis who live in 2009 if I need to tackle our problems.
Also, Al Saud whether we disagree with them or not, I am thankful to them that they United Saudi Arabia and made a political entity for us, and inspire life in Arabian peninsula, what Al Saud did for Saudi people are much much much more than what they got. I am happy of Al saud, and they are working for serving Saudi people and Muslims around the world and the whole world. our help goes everywhere. we do not need others to thanks us but we need that them stop bashing us an stop working against our stability.
Saudi Arabia will stand and stand whatever challenge we face us, we will stand against it and we will deal with it with wisdom, and we work for better future for our Saudi nation. every Saudi knows very well what he needs, even the reformists they do not want to change every thing in Saudi Arabia, I love the simplicity of Saudi, their generosity, their readiness for help, they social life, their jokes, their opened access to socialize with everyone. I do not need to change my culture or myself to satisfy others, that is how we are, we are happy of ourselves. and we work for the change that meet our hopes and originate from the values that everyone endorse in our society. Forcing change on us, it will make us more resistant and it will radicalize us. Please have respect to us and try to understand our culture, and we work together to change the bad traditions or the laws. But peacefully, and with more stability. Dramatic change will cause more destructions and it will divide us, and ultimately, we will find ourselves surrounded by military forces from all over the world at the expense of our dignity and independence. We are happy of what we achieved so far. Thank you for concern.

@ Chiara,
Thanks for stating these information. I wish every saudi in here learn from you how he/she states what saudi did for serving Muslims around the world insteading of joining the “new fashion”.

salam
Medina, on July 18, 2009 at 10:41 am said:

Dear Aafke,
sorry I forgot to add your name in my previous post. The post directed to abu is sent to you as well.
please if you want to know more about saudi arabia, read the book, saudi Enigma, read saudi arabia, a case study, read about 1980s events in Haram and the Sahwa, the conservative trend, in 1970s, saudis were more opened and more liberal. I admit that. but changes happened in saudi society out of our control, islamic revoulution in Iran for example, it pushed the region for more radicalism. please read about that and try to understand what happened in the last 30 years. what we are trying to do now is to tackle the consequnces and the bad effects of Sahwa that dominated saudi arabia for more than 20 years. It is hard to change its effects in a year or two, we need TIME, please Give us TIME, and work with us but do not work against our stability. Thank you.

Salam
Aafke, on July 18, 2009 at 1:59 pm said:

Medina, thanks for the book-tip.
Abu Abdullah, on July 18, 2009 at 4:07 pm said:

I realize that Hala feels liberated, and happy to be in USA with freedoms.

Interestingly i can contrast that with my wife who is from Texas, and she feels liberated living in Riyadh wearing her abaya and niqaab without being scorned at.

Carol can you offer some insights of ladies who wear niqaab in houston?
From what i heard its not really good.
Hala must understand that every nation has its own culture, and people not affirming to its culture are considered outcasts and these people do have trouble assimiliating.
For example, yes i must admit in Saudi Arabia it is offensive for a women not to wear hijab or atleast an abaya, so is for men as well.

I am from riyadh and i can relate to Hala’s incident at Granada Mall, well even a guy or a “shabab” cannot enter the same mall wearing boxers and basketball t-shirt, i have seen guys wearing that being chucked out outright .

And now let me compare the same situation to USA, I would like to ask can any one here in this forum guarantee me that i would not be humiliated by the cops if i was found wearing a Thobe/ Shmagh and my wife wearing a niqaab???

As i said it USA has its culture and a definition of what is expected by its residents and same does Saudi Arabia.

And about Saudi’s pushing their role as protectors of Islaam as mentioned by Hala, well she must understand that this is the birth place of Islaam, and even today millions of muslims flock to this kingdom, this kingdom’s identity was grown out of Islam, and yes if the kingdom ordains that its people live lives as per the tenets of islam which also includes “Covering one self up”.

For that matter even Vatican works out hard on promoting Catholicism and Israel for Judaism, so what is the problem if Saudi Arabia does it for Islaam???

My take is that one cannot and must compare Saudi Arabia with USA, Saudi Arabia built its identity on Islam and Quraan which muslims believe to be divinely inspired by GOD and America was founded on what they call Freedom, Liberty and Justice (which on the other hand was rarely practiced in the beginning, remember Martin Luther king, etc. had to fight for their freedom, etc,)

So it would be much better if people simply avoided the comparisions.

My final take is Well you like American Customs, you stay in America, you like to adopt to saudi (Islamic) customs you assimilate here.

Last but not the least, if i was in Hala’s place i would have been gratefull for the kingdom to grant me a scholarship to study in USA. I cannot recollect many countries sponsoring students to study abroad…
Abu Abdullah, on July 18, 2009 at 4:08 pm said:

Correction:
I meant:

My take is that one cannot and must not compare Saudi Arabia with USA, Saudi Arabia built its identity on Islam and Quraan which muslims believe to be divinely inspired by GOD and America was founded on what they call Freedom, Liberty and Justice (which on the other hand was rarely practiced in the beginning, remember Martin Luther king, etc. had to fight for their freedom, etc,)
marianna68, on July 18, 2009 at 5:25 pm said:

Read the whole thing, intelligent woman and seems like she struggles at times with her own identity and what she wants for herself and her country. I wonder when she returns back to Saudia what kind of culture shock she will get because of the “freedoms” she has had in the states and of course the driving. Like her, I don’t like to drive but like the freedom it gives me. If my car breaks down I am in a panic even though we do have adequate public transportation systems in Saint Louis. Bless this lady and her future!!!
Lynn, on July 18, 2009 at 5:52 pm said:

‘And now let me compare the same situation to USA, I would like to ask can any one here in this forum guarantee me that i would not be humiliated by the cops if i was found wearing a Thobe/ Shmagh and my wife wearing a niqaab???’

I can guarantee that! Well, as long as you aren’t doing something illegal that is.

Hey Carol, was that full niqabbi in the heat of Houston from a recent post being trailed by the police?
Abu Abdullah, on July 18, 2009 at 6:17 pm said:

@Lynn:
Hard to beleive that, just ask any muslim looking person who has passed Airport Security?

Atleast here at Riyadh Airport, you can pass security without a abaya, in any western outfity (Yes, i have seen non-abaya ladies in questionable garments passing the Riyadh Airport Security!!!)

And yes, but regarding your country (assuming you are from west) just look at the the news media, one such news article is about the racist judge in Atlanta (http://www.newser.com/story/45520/us-judge-busts-muslim-woman-for-wearing-hijab.html).

And below is more interesting:
A Muslim pilot was evicted from an airline for sporting a bear (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/muslim-pilot-reveals-shock-at-being-ordered-off-flight-412886.html)
whereas interestingly one not a muslim looking lady burnt matches in a aircraft and yet she was cleared by the securities and not ejected from the airline by the security (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6213644.stm). I only imagine what would have happened had this lady been a arab or dressed wearing a hijab!!!

And about India (my home country) a student was removed from the school just because he had a beard (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Beard-row-Student-moves-SC-again/articleshow/4571401.cms)

My moot point here was that, Yes even the West and non -Arab countries, they do have bias against any one who doesn’t dress, speak, looks or believes like them.

Atleast in Saudi Arabia we are open about how we expect our citizens to behave, but it is much worst in other countries, because they are very much subtle regarding their racism and bias.

Like what i had mentioned earlier, in Saudi Arabia we would like to live the life the way we prefer and we do not want any education about changing our life styles or our customs; the same we do not expect any thing positive for muslims/arabs in the west.
Abu Abdullah, on July 18, 2009 at 6:24 pm said:

@Lynn:
Just look at this article too, a jewish passenger was profiled because he looked like an Arab
(http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/humiliation-at-33000-feet-top-british-architect-tells-of-terror-arrest-418331.html)

Again, at least in Saudi Arabia, The religious police says what you must wear and what you must not, but in USA/West/ non-muslim countries you are openly discriminated if you decide to wear a muslim or arab looking clothing.
Chiara, on July 18, 2009 at 8:14 pm said:

Medina–thank you for the information you provided in your comments, which educates us all, and for your kind words. Socio-political stability and evolution or transformation do seem to be the most beneficial and least harmful ways to change a society for the better..

Abu Abdullah–interesting points. I can just about guarantee that a man in a thobe and smaugh in anything but the “little arabia” neighbourhood of a North American city would be perceived with curosity, stares, and at least some unpleasant remarks, though not by all. Women wearing the niqab certainly draw the most attention and cause the most consternation, then women in headscarf and traditional clothing, then women in headscarf and European clothes. Usually the police, at least in Canada, say nothing.

Each must choose within the limits of the law and the social rules, what form of dress best reflects their sense of modesty and gives them the most comfort. The idea of a police control of dress codes is both foreign and familiar. Police here do intervene if the person is dressed indecently, or rather too undressed, or not dressed appropriately for the weather (by taking them to a shelter, or for a psychiatric assessment), but generally do not if the behaviour is normal and and the clothes are “decent”.Of course what constitutes “decent” is a societal construct and varies over time and place, and context within a society.

Unfortunately passengers on airplanes are now empowered to report anything suspicious, and to jump anyone behaving “suspiciously” . This has resulted in the removal from an airplane of 3 “brown” doctors travelling together, when one of them prayed at his seat before his dinner. Very suspicious that! (They were dressed in Western clothes).

Comparisons, especially ones where one culture is directly compared against the norms of another, can be misleading, but are useful to gain insight, and to develop further knowledge of each culture. Just saying “we do it this way and they don’t/should” is at best banal, and at worst dangerous.

Saudi has a role in Islam worldwide, at the very least because it is the site of the hajj and has responsibilities to its own citizens and to the ummah to see to it that the hajj can happen, and in a safe way.

The founding of the US was within the context of Protestant values with the direct invocation of God, and yes there have been struggles with equality, freedom and justice for all, since the founding.

It seems to me that Hala is grateful for her scholarship and making the most of her opportunities with an eye to working for the betterment of her country. Most countries do offer overseas studies scholarships to students, though few stipends are as generous as those of Saudi, and Saudi has a long tradition of doing so.
Manal, on July 18, 2009 at 8:26 pm said:

@Abu Abdullah,

You say that Saudi Arabia is ruled by The Qur’an and Sunnah? I certainly hope that isnt the case. If so does that mean massive government corruption is mandatory in The Qur’an and Sunnah? Does that mean Wasta and Reshwa, as a way of life, is mandated by The Qur’an and Sunnah?

If Saudi Arabia really was run by The Qur’an and Sunnah why is the country SO far behind the West and so dysfunctional?

If Saudi Arabia IS really run by The Qur’an and Sunnah then that means that these laws cause a dysfunctional society that is behind the West.

Is that what you contend? Personally I dont think Saudi Arabia is run by The Qur’an and Sunnah that explains why Saudi society is so corrupt and backwards.

A society run by The Qur’an and Sunnah would LEAD the world in justice and human rights, not be a laughing stock as Saudi Arabia is now.

A society run by The Qur’an and Sunnah would be an egalitarian society were one’s advancement in life would be based on merit and hardwork, not corruption and nepotism.

You and others might THINK that Saudi is run by The Qur’an and Sunnah, but the reality is that it is run by a corrupt tribal system that rewards patronage and injustice. Anyone looking at Saudi knows this to be the case.

A Saudi Arabia run truly by The Qur’an and Sunnah would mean that the current ruling establishment would HAVE to be replaced.

As long as it “Saudi” Arabia, it will never be run by The Qur’an and Sunnah.

If one wants to look at what Islam is NOT……look at “Saudi” Arabia.
Abu Sinan, on July 18, 2009 at 8:27 pm said:

Sorry…………Abu Sinan made the last comment. I used by wife’s browser.
Abu Abdullah, on July 18, 2009 at 8:45 pm said:

@Chiara: Appreciate the balanced perspectives which you put in the right perspective.

Bottom line is the cultural perspectives, customs, behavior, etc which are good in one place may not be acceptable in other parts of the world. And hence we cannot go about judging others way of life who live in a different part of the world.

I wish people learnt this lesson instead of criticizing others.
Chiara, on July 18, 2009 at 9:13 pm said:

Abu Abdullah–Thank you for your kind words and I agree with your bottomlines.

One of the best examples of inappropriate cross-cultural comparison I dealt with personally was the application of a North American assessment tool for evaluatiing nurses’ expression of empathy to patients, to assess nurses in the ME. The ME nurses all scored as very unempathic, despite being trained with North American textbooks, full of instruction about “empathy”. The problem was of course with the cultural concepts underpinning the assessment tool, and then with the tool itself. In simple terms, the tool was based on North American cultural values of individuality, sharing feelings and information about family openly with professionals ie strangers, nurses as therapists rather than intervening in other ways, caring expressed as social interest and talking moreso than doing something for someone, and intrapsychic explanations of the mind-body relationship. Bottom line, if you assess people by criteria contradictory to their norms, they “fail”. Of course the ME nurses were just as empathic as the NAmerican ones, they just showed it differently, in accordance with their, and most importantly with their patients’ cultural values, not matter what the textbook said, and what they wrote on their exams and in their essays. That was the result of the broader study to explain the problems with the first one.

A number of interesting literary works, and even magazine articles have exploited the evaluation of one culture by another to enlightening and humorous effect. One is “Stones for Ibarra”, a novel by Harriet Dooer (which won the American National Book Award), which shows how foolish some of the newly arrived American expat couple’s behaviour looked to the poor Mexican locals: putting in electricity at great expense and with great difficulty, and then eating by candlelight, clearing a place for a flower garden and then hauling in rocks for the garden, planting “exotic flowers” (North American ones) that required a lot of hard to obtain, scarce water, etc. It is based in part on her life with her engineer husband.

Another is an article I read long ago in Jeune Afrique Magazine from the perspective of an African new to “white” society, and how “primitive” the behaviours of the whites were. Of course living in Hong Kong one soon learns that “Gwailo” means “white ghosts/devils” and the alternative “big noses” is none to flattering either! LOL
Abu Abdullah, on July 18, 2009 at 9:44 pm said:

@Abu Sinan (or Manal):
Yes, Saudi Arabia unlike other Muslim countries has deficiencies, but when you compare Saudi Arabia to other Muslim countries, i am sure it is the least best you could find.
Yes i hate to see Reshwa and Wasta, i wish it goes away, along with other issues.
BTW, am a Indian expat here and i very well know what is it to be a Indian in Saudi Arabia.
But, I do feel that Saudi Arabia when it scores on Islamic way of life may not be the sole best but it is the better off than others.
I wouldn’t like to continue commenting on the Islamic Credentials of Saudi Arabia as I beleive it is a all together different topic.
American Bedu, on July 18, 2009 at 10:09 pm said:

I believe those who choose to wear the abaya and niqab as well as the men who are wearing thobes are readily accepted here in the Houston area. In fact I have an upcoming post on this very topic. I don’t think these individuals would be hassled by law enforcement for what they are wearing. I’d like to think that law enforcement would come to their assistance if they are seen to be hassled by anyone because of appearance.

And coming back to the interview with Hala, it is evident she is an intelligent, thoughtful and balanced woman who has given all of us much to contemplate and reflect upon. I think she does a good job on illustrating the contrasts between life as a woman in Saudi and life as a Saudi woman in the United States and all the while maintaining her sense of identify and morals.
coolred38, on July 18, 2009 at 10:22 pm said:

Saudi has a monarchy…which according to Islam is nonIslamic…the head of a state should be the best among the people and freely elected by them to be leaders (as was the first leader after the prophets death)…in which case…not only is Saudi not conforming to the Quran and Sunnah…most other so called Islamic countries arent either. Most of them have either monarchies….military imposed leaders…or just plain old corrupt leaders in place…nothing Islamic about that.
Aafke, on July 18, 2009 at 11:23 pm said:

Lynn, you know I am always taken apart at customs and asked extra questions? I look soooo suspicious!

AbuAbdullah, I have no doubt that your wife is a convert and has been suitably indoctrinated by some Saudi trained salafi imam, who has no problems including a bit of bidah into Islam by telling her that abaya and niqab is required. And I am sorry your wife hasn’t got the independance of mind to read the Quran for herself where she would read that modesty is all which is required, and that the breasts and down to the knees are the only parts which need to be covered.
However, one does wonder why somebody who lives in a place where such a mode of dress is wholly alien, and more-over, given the information available to the inhabitants, you know will be regarded with suspicion, why then would they choose to make a spectacle of themselves, and make sure they will be attracting everybodies attention.
I’m not sure she is that happy in Riyad where she is one of the crowd. I’m sure she misses being the centre of attention and then complain about it while feeling all superior over those women who are not ”liberated” by being encased in unhealthy, restricting, personality destroying swathes of black polyester.
coolred38, on July 18, 2009 at 11:27 pm said:

uhmmmm….what Aafke said.
Aafke, on July 18, 2009 at 11:28 pm said:

you are from India I read so you do not know that the ubiquitus niqab is actually a fairly recent fashion in KSA. I have heard numerous older Saudis relate how they hardly saw a niqab 20/30 years ago. And on old photo’s you can see women in Saudi Arabia without abay and niqab, and their hair showing.
So I’m sorry buit you are msitaken if you think the current uniform has been unchanged since 1400 years, it is new, and this excessive covering was forced on the people of Hijaz by the people from the Nejd.
Aafke, on July 18, 2009 at 11:42 pm said:

Abu Abdullah (I’m sorry, but your comments are such rich pickings) It is so childish and infantile to immediately start pointing fingers at other countries. But I will go into it and explain it to you as simply as possible.

You walk around trying to be conspicous in thobe and your wife even more noticable in abaya and niqab. Now we all know how this will be percieved by the common Joe as ”fundamentalist muslim dress”
Which it is.
So you can’t blame them for it.
Then we can expect the simple American people thinking of what other fundamentalist Muslims have been pulling in America lately…
Like blowing up stuff and killing thousands of innocent people.
And then going all out in the media about it and how Islamic it is to kill people and they all wear the same clothes as well.
You could make it more clear by wearing a sandwich board with the text ”I am a creepy fundametalist muslim, the same sort as what blew up the twin towers” but you don’t really have to.

Still, you and your suffocating wife will be able to walk around in the hospital area of Houston, as I have seen many walking around, and not only that, but being treated with care and respect and helped out in the same super-friendly manner as I experienced myself when visiting there.
Aafke, on July 18, 2009 at 11:51 pm said:

Abu Abdullah, If Saudi Arabia was governed by what’s i the Quran then there ouwldn’t be a religious police, there wouldn’t be dressrestrictions, nobody would get punished for wearing whatever they liked, because these things are between a person themselves and Allah only. There wouldn’t be people tortured for Khalwa, because that is a madu up ”crime”. There would be no restrictions on other faiths in KSA, because ”There is no compulsion in Religion”
and there would be care, mercy and compassion. because God is merciful and compassionate

As it is KSA is the total opposite of what it would have been had it been really based on the Quran and not on some scary sect devised by some backward nomads eeking out a marginal, poverty stricken existence in the depths of the primitive desert.
Saudi in US, on July 18, 2009 at 11:52 pm said:

“And now let me compare the same situation to USA, I would like to ask can any one here in this forum guarantee me that i would not be humiliated by the cops if i was found wearing a Thobe/ Shmagh and my wife wearing a niqaab???”

Yes you can guarantee that the cops will not take you to jail, humiliate you, or even talk to you. I have seen many Arabs in full dress here with no problem with the government.

You seem to have a very uneducated view of the US and life here.

Now your wife may have encountered issues in the US with people staring for obvious reason. She is wearing something very unfamiliar to the average American. I will bet you she will get the same stares if she wore a purple suit covered with feathers.
susanne430, on July 19, 2009 at 12:51 am said:

I admit it. I am guilty of staring at people dressed differently than the average American.

But I really like foreigners so it is partly to do with that. Nothing discriminatory at all. It’s just interest on my part. I wish I could go up to “those people” and find out where they are from and about themselves. Most people in my area are very similar to me so I like the variety.

And if they are dressed similarly to Americans, but I know they are from another country due to their language, it’s the same.

I like variety so my staring is interest…sorry if I am rude though. (blush)
Abu Sinan, on July 19, 2009 at 1:14 am said:

@Abu Abdullah;

You wrote that Saudi is the “least best you could find.” I couldn’t agree more! I think NOW we are unanimous!! Thank you!:)
Abu Sinan, on July 19, 2009 at 1:15 am said:

OOPS!! Again, I used my wife’s browser!!!
Aafke, on July 19, 2009 at 1:51 am said:

At least you’ve got your own name on it….
Shows what a close and loving couple you are though: sharing each other’s browsers: The ultimate in marital trust and unity…
Chiara, on July 19, 2009 at 5:18 am said:

Given that Houston is the seat of Saudi Aramco and a major oil city I’m not sure it is representative of the average North American city in regards to traditional Gulf dress and reactions. Similarly, in major hospitals with a high international clientele one sees people in traditional clothes who may not wear them elsewhere in the city, especially if they were to immigrate and work fulltime there.
It is also possible that Houston is a Saudi destination for medical treatment because of Aramco employee programs, or Saudi government programs for those who cannot be treated in the Kingdom. People in hospitals are usually friendly and accepting, since there is an appreciation of the unhappy circumstances for patients to be there, and staff have chosen “a caring profession”.

My email exchange with an American Houstonian musician and educator (x25 yrs as an adult) emigrated X 1yr:

Is it common in Houston to see Saudi men walking around in their traditional dress ie white thobe (cloak) and red-chequered smaug (head covering) with black agal to hold it?
Common? No, it is uncommon. I don’t think I ever saw it more than two times in twenty-five years. Muslim men there dress in western clothes, period.

Does or would anyone notice or care?
I cannot say for certain. In the Galleria area or around Rice Village it is unlikely anyone would bother them, but just the same, I would not recommend it.

How about a woman in a burqa, or a face veil and black abaya (cloak)?
I saw very few burqas or veils in Houston. Most identifiably muslim women wear, at most, a headscarf with their designer jeans. I saw fewer and
fewer headscarves in Houston during the last few years I was there.

BTW of the 3 doctors I mentioned above who were removed from a plane and interrogated by the FBI, the most vocal one in the media is the one who prayed–a 27yo Saudi Canadian who was verbally harassed by a drunk passenger who threatened to “pound” him, and who initiated the report of suspicious behaviour, which also included whispering to his seat mate, an East Asia man. Their female seat mate, also East Asian, was also interrogated. The plane took off without them, but with the belligerent drunk and other passengers who had threatened to take over the plane if need be–a felony offense. All 3 doctors (all residents training in radiology and going home after a conference) were required to pay their overnight expenses and a new flight. They were not impressed with the airline, to say the least.

I do think it is unnecessary to speculate negatively on Abu Abdullah’s wife, who for all we know is a Saudi raised in Texas, or another born Muslim who has always covered, and in any case seems to have made choices she is comfortable with.

Susanne–I am similarly guilty of perhaps looking a little too long, trying to figure out how to tie a headscarf in a particular way. However I have always lived in multicultural cities so I have no excuse other than admiration for the artistry.
Abu Abdullah, on July 19, 2009 at 3:27 pm said:

@Chiara: Thanks again
@ To all those concerned: Please be balanced in your opinion, if some one wishes to cover up out of their own choices, Whats the problem with you?
I in any of my posts did not condemn those who did not cover up????
And i take it as abuse to call people Suffocating, etc. RESPECT!
Please read the blog rules and stop name calling others!!!
@aafke:
“You walk around trying to be conspicous in thobe and your wife even more noticable in abaya and niqab. Now we all know how this will be percieved by the common Joe as ”fundamentalist muslim dress”
Which it is.”

I beg to differ that Abaya and a thobe is a fundamentilist muslim dress…

You need some education!!!

And you have no RIGHT TO CALL US A FUNDAMENTILIST if that is what you meant.
Aafke, on July 19, 2009 at 5:08 pm said:

AbuAbdullah, you didn’t get what I was saying did you? I need to simplify my English a bit, I know…

Chiara, I have seen many men and women in Thobes and abayas hijabs and niqabs in the hospitals in Houston. Carol pointed them out to me whenever any came in sight as some particularly enjoyable tourist sight. So I didn’t miss any.
They all looked as well and comfortable as you can expect when in a hospital, they were not followed by police or harassed or anything. they were walking around on their own business like everybody else.
Abu Abdullah, on July 19, 2009 at 5:11 pm said:

@aafke: Could you please simplify the sentence of yours “Now we all know how this will be percieved by the common Joe as ”fundamentalist muslim dress”
Which it is.””
What do you mean by “Which it is”
munaqabah, on July 19, 2009 at 7:51 pm said:

Hospitals which compete for patients are usually going to be welcoming to any patient that has money. Medical tourism from the Gulf, among other places, is big business these days; even if the country is not normally welcoming to their own citizens who wear hijab or niqab, the hospitals are welcoming to these families who come and pay (either themselves or their governments).

That’s not to say that Houston isn’t a comfortable place to wear niqab; I’ve never been there. I’m just saying that the reaction of hospital staff inside a hospital may not be representative.
munaqabah, on July 19, 2009 at 7:55 pm said:

By the way, I wonder if Hala could expand upon her answer to the question of whether she wears hijab in the U.S. She said that she feels more comfortable not wearing it there; does that mean that she doesn’t like wearing it even in Saudi, or that she thinks it would cause problems for her to wear it?
Aafke, on July 19, 2009 at 8:10 pm said:

Abu Abdullah, I mean it is.
I really can’t put that any more simply.

munaqaba, but the visitors have none of the bizarre incentives you thought up, and they treat the foreign visitors well too.

And nobody gave the bloke in the thobe and his hijabi wife a second look in the supermarket I went too. (btw, that was the bloke who peed in the washbasin, his hijabi wife was waiting for him, and I was waiting for my friend)
Sorry, I have seen nothing like bad treatment of obviously muslim people while I was in Houston.
Hala, on July 19, 2009 at 9:54 pm said:

Dear All, Thanks for commenting on the interview and for all your good wishes, you made me more informed about many things…

For Munaqqabah question,
I don’t like talking about Hijab much because it takes more value than it really deserves and it’s at the end exactly like all aspects of religion, a personal issue… I don’t have a problem wearing abaya and scarf in Jeddah or wearing a scarf at my work in Saudi before, I don’t take dress code very seriously as long as I’m comfortable, I do mind covering my face and senses of smell, taste and breathing so that men don’t get tempted, that’s why I didn’t like going out in Riyadh…

and for Abu Abdullah:
“My final take is Well you like American Customs, you stay in America, you like to adopt to saudi (Islamic) customs you assimilate here. Last but not the least, if i was in Hala’s place i would have been gratefull for the kingdom to grant me a scholarship to study in USA. I cannot recollect many countries sponsoring students to study abroad” … I can’t tell how many times I heard that, it shows a pattern of refusing to accept a difference if it doesn’t conform to social norms, exactly what I talked about in my interview, but generally reflect a common thinking pattern in Saudi that caused a lot of confrontations and clashes with different views and constant resistance to changes… I hope that it gets eradicated soon by objective media discussions and balanced education…

Miriam, I went back to read your interview and I guess we are similar on many levels…

Thanks American bedu for offering me another opportunity to know myself, my country and others better…
American Bedu, on July 19, 2009 at 10:10 pm said:

@Hala – it has been my pleasure!
Chiara, on July 19, 2009 at 11:27 pm said:

Abu Abdullah–Afwan, and I agree with your comment. Unfortunately, as written, Aafke’s comment “…and your suffocating wife…” can be interpreted in 2 ways: your wife is suffocating under her Islamic cover; or your wife is a suffocating person for others to be around. I must admit I winced at that more than once, and I apologize for repeating it, but thought to do so in the interest of clarity.
You would probably have had an easier time with the clarity of the other statement she made, if it had been written grammatically as “Now we all know how this will be perceived [sp-corrected] by the ‘common Joe’–as ‘fundamentalist Muslim dress’, which [or as] it is.” Unfortunately we all have editing errors in our comments, and once again I apologize for repeating it in the interest of clarification.
Of course you are right: no one–not even an “average Joe”–can call you a fundamentalist based on this evidence. Conservative, traditional, and fundamentalist are all distinct. As you know probably better than I, the thobe is traditional, and the abaya conservative. Fundamentalism has more to do with beliefs and mindset, and ironically was originally created as a term in reference to American Protestants, yet now has a pejorative connotation especially when applied to American Protestants and to Muslims.

Aafke–I have no doubt you saw many men in thobes, and women in abayas with hijab and niqab, especially in the particular hospital cluster and environs you frequented, and with American Bedu making sure you didn’t miss any. I trust you both not to have made any indiscreet touristy remarks. And I have no doubt the people so dressed were comfortable wearing their traditional and conservative clothing while ill or visiting loved ones in a welcoming hospital setting. That was the point of my comment about hospital settings, and especially those drawing an international population of patients, perhaps particularly Saudis, given the ties between Saudi and Houston, and the transfer of Saudi patient care overseas when Saudi itself lacks the specific expertise (to the credit of the Saudi healthcare system). Also as stated, I had no expectation they would be harassed by anyone, particularly in such an environment and neighbourhood.

Munaqabah–I agree. Hospitals that cater to medical tourism are particularly helpful to their international clientele. I would add that the same is true of academic hospitals that acquire an international reputation. Having had the good fortune to work in more than one, I can assure you that everyone from the Old Order Amish and Mennonites to the South Asians, Indonesians, East Asians, Africans, and of course MENA citizens is welcome to wear their traditional dress, speak in their own languages, practice their own faith, and incorporate faith practices into their medical care.

Hala–I enjoyed your further comment, which also makes clear the cultural differences between Jeddah and Riyadh. As far as the need to conform to social norms where you live, most positive change comes from those within the system, or sufficiently within the system to be credible (contrary to the rebel’s credo). I agree with you that more open dialogue, and greater flexibility brings about positive transformations and reduces clashes that are bred of rigidity. It seems Abu Abdullah was ultimately arguing the same point though differently. However, I trust him to speak for himself. Thanks again for both the interview and the subsequent comment.
munaqabah, on July 20, 2009 at 3:26 am said:

Aafke: “munaqaba, but the visitors have none of the bizarre incentives you thought up, ”

HUH?
munaqabah, on July 20, 2009 at 3:29 am said:

Thanks, Hala.
munaqabah, on July 21, 2009 at 9:16 pm said:

Aafke: ” (btw, that was the bloke who peed in the washbasin”

So it was in a supermarket in Houston where your friend claimed that the Muslim man peed in the sink? And then you wrote that Muslim men pee in sinks… Yeah, right. (Next time I get one of those Nigerian 419 scam e-mails, I’ll send it to you. You can make millions!)
Aafke, on July 21, 2009 at 10:05 pm said:

I wrote that one thobe-clad bloke peed in the washbasin in a public toilet, in a supermarket in Houston. I was waiting for a friend who was also male and also in the loo and he told me.
munaqabah, on July 22, 2009 at 3:52 am said:

OK, I have to do it… Here’s exactly what you wrote (at http://americanbedu.com/2009/06/14/a-saudi-woman-shares-her-story-of-marriage-to-a-westerner/#comment-24813):

“And talking about ”astounding”, a Arab man-friend told me some muslim men actually urinate in the washbasin!!!!!!
We were shopping and he pointed out a guy in a thobe entering the men’s room and told me he was probably going to do something yukkie in there, and when my friend came out he told me he had seen him peeing in the washbasin! And he said that was quite a normal thing to do for some muslims!”
July 09 Panorama « Saudi Alchemist, on July 30, 2009 at 8:44 pm said:

[...] “Mostly, I find myself with myself” Hala Al-Dosari’s answer to one of American Bedu interview’s questions. [...]
American Bedu, on August 28, 2009 at 7:13 pm said:

I am pleased to say that the Chicago Sun Times picked up this interview:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/blogentries/index.html?bbPostId=B6kcqoGH9Pf8Bzn7nRZ5sNNoAWsUMpbZWSPB4rws1rhZitx
Saudi Arabia: Can’t Get Enough of the Mahrem System « American Bedu, on August 28, 2010 at 3:11 am said:

[...] http://americanbedu.com/2009/07/16/interview-with-hala-a-saudi-woman-in-the-usa/ [...]
Saudi Arabia: Meeting Hala and Introduction to Umm Ali « American Bedu, on April 15, 2011 at 3:08 am said:

[...] to meet blogging friends! This week I had the honor to finally meet Saudi national extraordinaire Hala Al-Dosari. Hala and I had made plans for the past year to get together but my cancer relapse and [...]

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