Saudi Arabia, Islam and Owning a Dog

Anyone who has been following my blog for a short time quickly picks up on the fact that not only am I an animal activist, but that I am very partial to cats.  That’s just me.  However, I also would never neglect or abuse a dog, even in Saudi Arabia or any other Islamic state.  There seems to be a misperception that dogs are haram (not allowed) in Islam.  That is not correct.  This site written by a Muslim veterinarian provides an excellent overview on dogs and Islam.

Some key points from the site are as follows:

All animals are a part of Allah’s creation and belong to Allah (swt). Muslims are custodians of this beautiful planet. How we care for animals and what we use them for we will be accountable for to Allah (swt). All of creation is Muslim, submitting to Allah’s will—only man and jinn are granted a freedom of choice. So yes, even animals are Muslim.

In the Holy Qur’aan (S4:36) we are advised to do good to “… what your right hands own …” According to the commentator Imaam Faghruddin al-Rhazi, this refers to all those who have no civil rights, including animals. Thus, the verse lays down the duty of being good toward animals.

All things “…have been created for you …” for our benefit (S2:29). It thus becomes our duty to protect, employ with dignity, and promote the well-being of any animal in our care. In this way, we are expressing our thankfulness to Allah (swt) for His blessings in a practical manner. (Qur’anic Foundations and Structure of Muslim Society, Mawlana F.R. Ansari, vol. 2, pp. 125-126)

Every animal has been created for a purpose. It is a duty upon every human being to respect Allah’s creation. If we ill treat any of His creation, we will be questioned about it on the Day of Judgment. Sayyidina ’Umar (ra) was very concerned about the animals during his rule as Amir or head of the Islamic empire.

However, Dr. Ayoub Banderker then summarizes the key points pertaining to Islam and dogs as:
1. It is NOT haraam to own a dog, though it is not hygienic to keep a dog in the house.

2. It is NOT haraam to touch a dog or any other animal. If the saliva of a dog touches you or any part of your clothing, then it is required of you to wash the body part touched and the item of clothing touched by the dog’s mouth or snout.

3. It is incumbent upon all Muslims who own animals, whether for farming or work purposes or as pets, to provide adequate shelter, food, water, and, when needed, veterinary care for their animals. Arrangements must be made, if one is going to be away from home, to have one’s animals taken care of as well.

4. It is haraam to keep a dog or any other animal on a short lead for long periods without food, water, and shelter. Dogs need exercise and are social creatures who form organized “family” structures in nature. Dog owners therefore need to spend time daily with their dogs.

5. It is cruel, and therefore haraam, to keep any animal in a cage so small that it cannot behave in a natural way.

6. Fireworks cause untold suffering to most domestic animals because of their acute sense of hearing.

7. It is haraam to participate in any blood “sport,” like dog fighting and trophy hunting.

dogs

I’m not sure that I agree completely on the statement that it is not hygienic to keep a dog inside of a house.  I believe that depends on the individual and how well they maintain cleanliness of the dog and the house.  I know so many individuals who have elected to have a housedog and feel very comfortable and at ease in their home with their dog.

All of God’s creatures are to be treated with kindness and respect.  Furthermore, there are many benefits and joys to having a dog as a pet as well.  Dogs are very loyal creatures and when shown love and kindness, they will respond with so much love to their owner.  Dogs will respond to their names as well as so many other commands (sit, guard, roll over, fetch, etc.).  A dog can entertain a child for hours.  In fact, dogs have been beneficial in helping children who have been diagnosed with Autism.  Dogs help an autistic child deal with every challenges and obstacles and have been found to be very therapeutic.  And of course, dogs have played a role for many years as seeing eye dogs for the visually impaired.

In closing this post I would also say that based on my own experiences in Saudi Arabia and speaking with practicing veterinarians, dogs are becoming more popular among Saudis to have as a part than other animals.  While German Shephards had been the preferred breed, now one will see many kinds of breeds of dogs among dog owners in Saudi, from the very large (Great Dane) to the small (toy poodles and Chihuahuas).

dogs 2

So now let’s take our own informal poll.  How many of you who are reading this post have a dog or would like to have a dog?   And are you or are you not muslim?  And please quantify your answer.

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425 Responses

  1. I am not a Muslim and I own a dog (or rather our family has a dog as a member).

    Many muslims believe dogs are forbidden and if you go to google you will find many quotes from the Hadith collections that seem to indicate this. Your scholar above is just one counter example.

    I laugh when he says that dogs aren’t hygenic. He doesn’t site statistics. Yes our house would be cleaner without the dog. It would also be more hygenic without me. My beard hairs find their way to the bathroom floor. A house would be very hygenic if you got rid of the people ;-)

    In a world where we have West Nile virus, Swine flu and Mad Cow disease, who will tell me that dogs are the problem.

  2. I’m not a Muslim, and I do not have a dog.

    However, most people I know aren’t Muslims and have at least one dog.

    Earlier this year we went to Damascus for almost 2 weeks and I saw ONE dog the whole time and that was in the internet café owned by Christians! My Muslim friend was really antsy with that dog around. I remembered Muslims didn’t care for dogs so I told my husband to keep the dog distracted and away from Samer while I checked wrote home. Samer even told me later that the Syrian woman who owned the place saw his reaction, grinned and told her son, “He’s a Muslim” as if that explained it all. :D

    Interesting post. Thank you.

  3. Carol,

    I really enjoy reading your blog! I don’t usually comment, but I couldn’t resist with this one.

    I’m an American dating a Saudi. (as you know from email exchange). When we first met ( 2 1/2 years ago) my puppy was only 6 mths old. Now I have a fully grown 3 yr old Great Dane.

    I’ve heard a lot from my boyfriend about saliva (slobber as it’s called in my house) and how it is okay to have a dog as long as it stays outside. I have to say—this is the only part of his religion (or his interpretation of his religion) that I am not willing to submit to. I will fast with him during Ramadan as a sign of support, but don’t ask me to leave my baby outside!

    I’ve heard many Muslims say the same things about saliva and being in the house and cleanliness. The ironic thing is that many of those that question the cleanliness level in the house are the same people who leave cigarette butts, date seeds, naan, hookah coal, etc strewn across their homes! I just think its too funny when they start talking to me about cleanliness.

    But I have to say, all of this talk immediately stops when we’re in public with my dog. Whenever we’re out in public his friends always want to hold the leash because my baby is such a chick magnet! Which apparently is what was figured out in Saudi when they declared it illegal to walk dogs in public. I’m not sure who declared that, but I know it was in the news last year.

    Anyways, long post, sorry! Also, if you have any pictures of great danes being walked in Saudi, I would LOVE to see them!

  4. Thanks all for the comments thus far. Lindsey if I ever find a pic of a Great Dane in Saudi I’d be pleased to post it!

    Jerry – you had me smiling with the comment about the beard hairs vis-a-vis a dog!

    I look forward to hearing more comments and views on this issue.

  5. I am Muslim and I don’t have a dog (two cats instead), but my non-Muslim parents do. When she comes over to the house she doesn’t come into the room I pray in but I have no objection to petting dogs. I work with the frail elderly and have seem how much a dog or cat can brighten their day. In a world where many people are lonely and need love, I think dogs can provide wonderful companionship. Also, in response to people who argue that dogs are unhygienic, I really don’t think my cats are any cleaner. Anyway, we perform wudu and wear clean clothes and use mats for prayer, so there’s no need to get all neurotic about cleanliness for that purpose.

  6. I dont have a dog right now but Im looking for a small one for my flat. I have had many dogs in the past while here in Bahrain…most of my neighbors here in Hidd get very worked up over the fact that I dare keep a dog in my house…had to give away my last dog, of whom I loved very much, because my Yemeni neighbors threatened to kill him…grrr!!!

    one of the bloggers from Saudi. stilletos in the sand….has a great dane….she might lend a pic…she has them all over her blog.

    Lindsey….must I point out the irony in your Saudi boyfriend…who Im assuming is Muslim…insisting you keep your dog outside cause its haram….but doesnt find it so haram to date or be with a girl hes not related to or married too…hmmmm.

  7. I’m not muslim and I do have a dog….have always had dogs since I was little and, insh’allah, will have a dog till the day i die.

    When I lived in KSA I only knew one Saudi that had ever owned a dog…and I believe that at the time of ownership he was married to a westerner.

  8. There’s no question that Islam forbids mistreating or abusing dogs.

    It’s not that they’re forbidden completely. It’s allowed to have a dog if it’s needed for something – like a guard dog or a dog that helps on a farm. They shouldn’t be in the house, though. And there is extra washing that needs to be done for dishes or clothes that have been touched with the dog’s saliva.

    It’s not allowed to keep dogs just for pets, though, and I think it’s not allowed to buy and sell them for an exchange of money.

  9. It doesn’t say anywhere in the Quran that dogs are not allowed or even unclean. All these interpretations are based on on one hadith only, which merely states that if you feed your dog out of your own bowl you should wash it properly. Nothing about dogs saliva being some sort of magically unclean stuff, just clean your bowls thouroughly after your dog has eaten out of them. Excellent advice, I always do that.
    The hadith ranges in different versions from wash it three times, to wash it six times and once with sand, but that one’s from AbuHaraira who is known to have embellished and invented hadith.

    So not only is it merely nesseccary to clean your bowls properly after you share them with your dog, Why is there such a hadith anyway? Apparently it is not only normal to own a dog but it’s even normal to let your dog eat out of your own bowl.

    The Quran doesn’t even mention dogs much, only in the sura of the ”People in the cave” where the dog is mentioned as part of the sleeping group of people, and actually counted with them. There is nothing to indicate that there was anything wrong about this dog sleeping inbetween the people.

    There is also a hadith that when a dog watered in the mosque and people got all upset about it, Mohammed told them to chill, and just pour some water over it and it would be fine.
    So if mohammed didin’t freak over a dog pissing in the mosque I don’t see why people nowadays should freak about a pet-dog in the house.

    I think that all this dog-fobia something which creeped in much, much later and it has nothing to do with Islam.

  10. American Bedu–An interesting and entertaining post, and I admire your activism on behalf of pets feline and canine. I’m happy to rediscover the words of Dr Ayoub Berdeker. CAIR has acted in favour of Muslims and dogs, as linked in my comment on your Seeing Eye Dog post. Others might also enjoy the fun link there on a Muslim american immigrant and his puppy “Love My Dog, Love Me The great Arab-Muslim-American puppy story”, about how many friends he made because of his dog. I thought of your Saluki dog post when I read about the Saluki discovered lost in California with a Saudi microchip. Anyone you know ? LOL :)

    Hana and Munaqaba–Thanks for you comments which together reminded me that dogs as pets, like other pets, serve a useful purpose as companions, emotional healers, confidence builders, responsibility teachers, social network builders, safety guards (barking warnings or letting others know of a family distress–not quite Lassie, but similar), pre-conception trials of having “children”, etc. In short, these purposes which are as important as those of guard, hunting, or farm (herding) dogs, are sure to make dogs halal if the purposeful criterion is used.

    Saliva and inhouse hygiene are probably alot easier to accomodate in today’s sedentary and spacious conditions, and increased options for personal and household hygiene. The money exchange prohibition seems a more weakly documented and practiced one.

    Lindsey–do check out “Stilettos in the Sand” for pictures of “The Boy” (including walking on a Western compound in Saudi, pool adventures, etc), his rescue story in the US (heartbreaking–and explains why he is not full size), and his sister “The Baby” (a poodle).

    I really like all the AA style, x said I am/am not a Muslim and I do/do not own a dog. LOL :D

    Chiara
    Daughter of the Book,
    childhood pet Sheltie (Shetland Sheep dog–AKA a small “Lassie” dog, that will herd anyone or any other animal including other dogs) “Princess” (what can I say, we two girlie girls named her), may she RIP;
    current Aunt of “Whisper” (Coton de Tulear–Madagascar cousin of the Bichon Frise), totally adorable though completely misnamed;
    Married to a Muslim,
    childhood “pets” that were a series of father’s hunting dogs, all beloved, all allowed in the house, though officially residing in a dog house in the courtyard (summer) or one on the balcony (winter–well what passes for winter in Morocco LOL)

  11. Chiara…you have got to be kidding me. I also had a shelty dog when young…and her name was Shelty :) Thats too cool.

    Does that mean we think alike in terms of names…or that we were too lazy to be more original…lol.

  12. Oh, I forgot to put up my info:
    I think I’m a total infidel from any religion’s point of view,
    dog: 80 pounds of fur-covered-razorblades named Zora, does not only live in the house, but likes to lie on my lap.
    Will defenitely kill anybody who comes near me, especially at night.
    No mahram could do a better job :twisted:
    Joined in making my house a mess and have me constantely cleaning, by two cats.
    And ofcourse there’s Al Tarq, who doesn’t live in the house, but I wouldn’t mind if he did. But the upshot is that there are plenty of horsehairs to go around too.
    And to be brutally honest: I myself do a lot of shedding of long reddish hairs as well….

    Chiara, my first dog was named ”Lady”: also named by a girly girl…

  13. My name is Lynn and I am a non-Muslim. I do not own a dog but most everyone I know has one or has had one or more. If I ever have a very large yard or a lot of property I would get one in a heartbeat. The Muslims in my family are not even comfortable being in the presence of dogs (even though one of them grew up with a great love for and by dogs)

    Speaking of lazy… every dog that our family has had while I was growing up, and my dad has currently (he got her after my mom died and she brings him a lot of comfort and companionship) has been named ‘Duchess’ and they have all been German Shepherd mixes. (I sure hope they were all female) When I was little my parents never had to wonder where we were when we were out playing because Duchess would be sitting right in front of the house as if on guard duty. Duchess used to make the rounds with the mailman (yes, I said mailman, I know most dogs bark their heads off at the poor mailmen) and the whole neighborhood knew her and loved her.

  14. I’m not muslim and I have 2 dogs. I have them inside the house, and it’s not antihygienic at all. They are 3 and 3,5 months old right now. But my old one that died last summer, was 17 years old. If you teach them, no pronblem. And petting them is very comfortable and relaxing. Never thought and never had any hygienic problem. The fact is that they give you so much love that is almost impossible if you’ve had one, not to repeat.
    By the way, mines are really small sixed, within 1,5-1,8 kg when adults, yorkshire terriers. And if I ever have a house with a garden, I shall add another breed!!

  15. I have a dog, 1/2 lab, 1/2 husky- gorgeous girly with blue eyes. My Indonesian (Muslim) friend fell in love with her when she visited me and always asks how Nikki is before asking how I am :) I remember lots of Indonesians had dogs when I lived there, though cats were more prevalent.

    Except for the part about dogs not being in the house, I pretty much agree with that Vet and am so glad to have read that. I am an animal activist, I drive for a rescue- mostly dogs but some cats. I myself have 2 cats, both rescues, one from Singapore.

  16. Me: Muslim and NOT a dog owner.

    I have heard all sorts of hadith over the years regarding dogs and the main one that sticks out says something about it being haraam to keep a dog for anything besides hunting and security. The other hadith was about the dogs saliva being unclean (although I think the Maliki tradition doesn’t hold such strict standards). I know most Muslims freak out around dogs and definitely consider them taboo, even sometimes to the point of irrationality (ie once heard a cab driver did not allow a seeing eye dog in his cab, etc). Personally, I love dogs but I am allergic to them. I had one growing up, but it was a terrier, not my choice of breed. If I could have a dog(s) I would, but it would have to be a hardier breed, like a lab and it would have to be condusive to my lifestyle so I would only get one if a) it was for security, hunting, protection and it could never come into my home which would mean b) I would probably have to live out in the countryside and have at least 8 acres or so. The idea of a dog pooping outside and then running back in a sitting down wherever is so gross to me it makes my stomach turn (and that opinion has not been forced on me by Islam, it’s just gross). I think America has become a dog obsessed culture. All these silly boutiques and stores, just to accesorize your dog? I had to laugh when I saw one store that sold dog strollers, it gets a little ridiculous when you start to substitute dogs for humans, babies.

    So yeah, I’ll take a dog or two…..but give me a ranch in Colorado first and then we’ll see.

    I am curious as to where these Saudi dog owners keep their dogs? I would find it very strange if the dogs actually lived in the house with them!

  17. @Aafke,

    Have you heard about the hadith where a prostitute is promised heaven by the prophet because she saved a dog from death by giving it water?

    Yep, giving water to a dog was enough of an act that it forgave a life of fornication and sin.

    Plain and simple the biggest problem with Muslims and dogs is that they are AFRAID of them. They can use religion to rationalise it, even excuse threats of violence as in coolred’s case, but it all breaks down to FEAR!

    There is nothing in The Qur’an against dogs, the only depiction in The Qur’an is positive. Hadith seem to be divided, with some claiming the prophet killed dogs, others like I pointed out, where grave sins were forgiven by those being nice to dogs.

    The argument is made about the dog’s saliva, but modern science has proven that dog’s saliva actually carries LESS bacteria than human saliva. Given the ambiguity of hadith and the possitive depiction of dogs in the word of God, The Qur’an, I find any such discrimination against dogs to be nonsense and unIslamic.

    This is another case where culture has trumped religion. Culturally in the Middle East there are issues with dogs, somewhere along the line it was transfered into being a religious issue.

    Think about it, why would a dog be haram and not a cat? If it is about saliva, wouldnt ANY animal’s saliva be an issue? Why just a dog’s?

    It makes no rational sense, it isnt mentioned in The Qur’an, so for me it is a slam dunk.

    The prohibition against dogs is a “bid’ah”. It is an innovation, it doesnt owe it’s roots to the prophet or the religion.

    Sad to say, but I havent owned a dog since I was a teenager, but I’d wager it would be more friendly and honest than most people you’ll met today, including Muslims!

  18. I’m not Muslim and we don’t own a dog – mainly because i’m a bit scared of them. ( got bit bu a supposedly rabid one and had to take a series of 13 shots when i was young )
    Spouse – Muslim , loves dogs, owned 2 before we were married and 1 for about 6 months after we were married, is begging me to get one :-) and i might actually give in.
    Kids – love dogs to death, apparantly that’s high on their list of to own as soon as they move out :-)

  19. AbuSinan, yeah I know that one as well!
    You make another point I find very compelling; at this moment Zora is watching me with eyes full of love loyalty and devotion, sometimes it’s almost too much for me and I think I don’t deserve all this. And then Zora’s devotion and loyalty will never waiver, she will never even contemplate to ”upgrade” me, leave me, or stop loving me. She will protect me until death, still loving me.
    How can men suppose that an allknowing, all powerful deity created an animal so full of love, devotion, loyalty and then declares it ”unclean”????
    It cannot be. It’s impossible.

  20. Coolred, Aafke, and Lynn–Hilarious, and I say all we girlie girls get (more) dogs and name them after royalty, or at least continue with the aristocratic titles.

    Abu Sinan–maybe the idea of naming a dog after royalty will inspire you to own a whole litter of Salukis. :D :mrgreen:

    Sabiwabi–don’t go to the Southeast of France, the combination of froofroo costumed dogs (real other animal fur coats in “winter”) and their relative free reign in restaurants will traumatize you, if the “presents” on the sidewalks don’t.

    Puça–Atila and Cleopatra are adorable, play nicely together (based on the pictures you posted), and seem very hygienic –good Mommy.

    Radha–all children have lists of “freedoms” for when they move out, most more benign than the popular press would have us believe. Then again, dorm rooms aren’t happy places for dogs–but they could each have and apartment and all the dogs they wanted! I’m sure you love the idea! LOL : D

    Monica–bravo! While I cannot claim such noblesse, I am official house and dog sitter, mostly so Whisper won’t have to go through the trauma of even a very nice kennel–the breed is known to have separation anxiety, and since she is my nephew’s only sibling, well she is extra special. Although she is almost 11, when we go for walks I always let the children “pat the puppy” and she tolerates, if not enjoys it. The crazy neighbours wanted her put down, when after 4 years of their turning a hose on her, and poking at her throught fence with a rake, she finally got the chance to use her remaining teeth on the woman’s pant covered leg. Fortunately even in Canada (very severe dog laws and illegal in Ontario to own certain breeds), such a bite didn’t warrant capital punishment.

  21. @Chiara,

    Good idea. A dog named “Malik Fahad”? Sounds grand!

  22. Not Muslim. Like dogs but am currently employed by my cat! I am not prepared for the work involved in looking after a dog but certainly enjoy dogs belonging to others.

    Carol, how about a post regarding the treatment of donkeys in many Muslim countries?! Reading what Mohamed said about all animals got me thinking about the mistreatment I’ve seen of that beautiful animal that I love!!

  23. “There is also a hadith that when a dog watered in the mosque and people got all upset about it, Mohammed told them to chill, and just pour some water over it and it would be fine.”

    That was a Bedouin man, not a dog. (The mosque wasn’t what we think of as a typical mosque today; the floor was just sand.)

  24. I don’t know if anyone else noticed but the site linked in the post is owned by Peta.

    http://whois.domaintools.com/islamicconcern.com

    Registrant:
    PETA Foundation
    501 Front St
    Norfolk, Virginia 23510
    United States

    Domain Name: ISLAMICCONCERN.COM
    Created on: 15-Nov-01
    Expires on: 15-Nov-09
    Last Updated on: 14-Feb-09

  25. “that one’s from AbuHaraira who is known to have embellished and invented hadith.”

    That’s a serious allegation, and untrue. Let me guess… do you get your information about ahadith from Fatima Mernissi?

  26. @Munaqabah,

    There are many hadith that are dodgy. A good rule of them is if it isnt in The Qur’an and it makes no logical sense then it should be disregarded.

    Hadith, in this case, are at both ends of the spectrum. They cannot all be right. So which ones are truth and which ones arent? If you turn to The Qur’an you see dogs treated in a positive light. If you look at common sense and look at modern science, you’ll know that the saliva of dogs has less bacteria than humans.

    This all means that any hadith that are disparaging against dogs are false and go against The Qur’an.

    Plain and simple.

  27. “that one’s from AbuHaraira who is known to have embellished and invented hadith.”

    That’s a serious allegation, and untrue. Let me guess… do you get your information about ahadith from Fatima Mernissi?

    ____________________________

    I do believe even Aisha has been known to become angry with him over his proliferation of hadith…declaring nobody could know more about the Prophet than herself…except for some reason Abu Hareira….indicating in her anger that he made them up to sound closer to the Prophet than he was.

  28. both Aïscha and Omar ibn Khattib complained about AbuHaraira’s tendency to make up hadith, At one time Omar even threatened to exile him if he didn’t stop. After Omar ibn Khattib died his outpouring of hadith continued
    He was only a companion for the last three years of the prophet’s life, yet he is the most prolific hadith-contributer…
    You also notice that many of the hadith contributed to him are very negative towards women, and in contradiction with what is written in the Quran, Such as ”angels crying when a woman refuses to have sex with her husband” or ”women being the major number oof inhabitants of hell” And of course the ”dog eating out of your own bowl” one, all other versions mention wahsing it well, but the one attributed by AH is the only one which requires a ritual; cleaning, 6 times and once with sand. And it is this one version which mentions ritual cleaning which is the main source of scholars declaring dogs as ”unclean”

    It goes like this: the (one version) hadith says: ritual celaning, so therefore dogs saliva must be unclean, so therefore dogs must be unclean, so therefore dogs are bad, so therefore you are not allowed to have a dog, so therefore it’s ok to illtreat and kill dogs.
    And all based on one version of a hadith and ignoring the other less severe versions.

    And I’m back on topic. :twisted: Aren’t you pleased with me Bedu?

  29. The Qur’an: 5:4

    “They consult you concerning what is lawful for them; say, Lawful for you are all good things, including what trained dogs and falcons catch for you. You train them according God’s teachings. You may eat what they catch for you, and mention God’s name thereupon. You shall observe God. God is most efficient in reckoning.”

    This DIRECTLY contradicts negative hadith about dogs. One hadith claims that anytrhing touched by a dog must be washed 7 times, the final time in dust. So God, in His own words would state that it is okay to eat food that come from the mouth of a dog, yet a hadith says to clean it with dust?

    A direct contradiction between hadith and Qur’an, hence the hadith are invalid. It is only the societal pressures in Muslim lands that keep the prohibition on dogs.

    It is clear NOT Islamic.

  30. Yep, I don’t trust abu Haraira. I don’t think that having been a companion automatically makes a man a saint.
    I’m really sorry but I think ( just me thinking, nothing important) I think he was an opportunist.
    He was not with the prophet during the hard times, the exile, the wars. He hooked up with the prophet when the prophet was old, settled, important and powerful. And after the prophet died he used his (three year) companionship to make himself important. And it does really seem to me he embellished and made up hadith.
    Do you really believe he would have said to a couple of old women they would go to hell for being women? Because I don’t. And that means AH made it up!

  31. Hee, Abu Sinan, that’s a good one! Going to look it up!

  32. abu Haraira ran with the leaders of the Jewish tribes before he was with Mohammed. See, if European football play we’d call that being a “fair weather” fan.

    Anyway, if I ever get a dog and go duck hunting I’ll be more than willing to let our more radical Muslims come over for dinner.

    They just have to eat their duck with a light coating of dust so they can be sure to follow all hadith, made up for not.

  33. That one picture with the guy in the white thobe looks funny!! It looks like he doesn’t have a clue as to dealing with his dog!

    Did anyone catch that?? LOL I had to mention it!

    ME a MUSLIM and NOT a dog owner; yet have always felt that this is jibberish bologna made by ignorant people! I ONLY believe ANY Hadith that is 100% accurate with the Qur’an. Anything Hadith that goes against the Qur’an, sorry, means NOTHING!!!!

    For those who want to continue to sit around and read the so many Hadiths and live their lives based on them, go for it and may God be with you. But please, do not try to push your views around those around you and also stop the “MY way or the highway” attitude!!

    Some people, by the grace of God, have the ability to use their brains and think COMMON SENSE as well as are able to see the TRUE RIGHT PATH. And some unfortunately DON’T and see what they see as right when it is completely wrong!! Subhan’Allah, even this, Allah has mentioned it in the Qur’an!!!

  34. What about the hadith that is found in Sahih Bukhari and is related by Abu Talha and Ibn Abbas which says:

    “Angels (of Mercy) do not enter a house wherein there is a dog or a picture of a living creature (a human being or an animal).”

    That is an authentic hadith.

  35. Sabiwabi,

    It contradicts The Qur’an, so I dont think it is authentic.

    Think about it, The Qur’an relates the story about the people of the cave. The word of God says “we” in the story, clearly relating that there were angels involved, meaning that an angel was in the cave where the people had been with the dogs for hundreds of years.

    The Qur’an:

    18:18 “You would think that they were awake, when they were in fact asleep. We turned them to the right side and the left side, while their dog stretched his arms in their midst.”

    Either God made a mistake in writing The Qur’an, which we know isnt true, or the hadith is false. Plain and simple. If you believe that Hadith you dont believe in The Qur’an because they contradict each other.

    If a hadith contradicts The Qur’an the hadith MUST be false. God made it clear that angels were in that cave, with the dogs. The hadith, by the word of God, is false.

    Go back to the Qur’an and the verse about eating food from the mouth of dogs. God would let you eat food that had been in a dog’s mouth yet they cannot come in your house.

    It is illogical, doesnt make sense, hence is false.

  36. There were angels in the cave, watching the sleeping people and dogs, so I don’t believe they wouldn’t go into a house. There must be a mistake made on the hadith.
    Or the quran is at fault,
    take your pick which one you prefer to believe..

  37. Oh Abu Sinan allready said it.
    And better than me…
    Bugger!

  38. Well I just realized I did not add my own identifiers as many others…

    ME: Muslim, No Dog, 2 Cats Spouse: Muslim, Saudi, Learned to live with Cats and loves dogs!

    I grew up with our family always having dogs. My favorite was our St. Bernard. But as I started my diplomatic career I never had a dog as it was too difficult committing to the requisite care a dog requires.

    I have always had cats and never been without a cat. Until I was about 12, each cat I owned was named Tarzan. (don’t ask me why…just seemed to fit)

    Now we share our house with 2 “Pak a’bilis” Pak meaning they are from Pakistan and bili being the word cat in Urdu.

    I found Tripod first. I was golfing at the Islamabad Golf course when I heard mews that indicated cat in distress. I followed the sound of the mews and found him under a bush where he had apparently crawled up to to die as he had been hit by a car. I rolled him up in my golf towel and immediately took him to the nearest I could find for a vet. The doctor told me he’d try to save him but the mangled leg due to the accident had to go. Hence his name, Tripod. While he was healing, we bonded and I have now had him 14 years.

    Saheba Kootchaloo means little lovely Queen (mix of Urdu and farsi). She showed up at my door mewing like a baby when I was living in Pakistan. Personally since my house had high walls and guards I am still convinced someone knew I was a softie for animals and bribed my guards to let her within the walls of my house. Of course when I saw her I couldn’t resist and she’s also been with me 14 years now.

    They are presently in Riyadh while I’m here temporarily in Houston. It tears me up and I miss them alot.

    Now my Saudi husband on the other hand loves dogs! Not only that but big dogs. He’d like a Shepherd, Great Dane, Greyhound or something along those lines!

  39. @Carol,

    Have him check out the “Anatolian Shepard”. The are large light coloured dogs that get up to 200 pounds. They were originally raised to protect flocks against bears and lions.

    @Aafke,

    I agree with you. For a Muslim who believes dogs are haram there is but two choices.

    1. The Qur’an, hence God, is wrong.

    2. The hadith, made by man, are wrong.

    It is one or the other.

  40. I am just asking because how did a hadith remain authenticated all these years (about 1,000 years or so) when you have contradictions of it in the Quran? I don’t think the answer is so simple. I’ll ask around and see what answers I get. There has got to be more to it. There is a whole science in Islam solely devoted to hadith classification for heavens sake.

    Scholars of Islam took the process of hadith verification quite seriously. The were very precise. Nothing was done willy-nilly.

  41. Because hadith are classified based almost entirely on the chain of transmission…in other words…more care is taken into declaring who said who said who said what…rather than what was said.

    So a weak hadith can stick around for two reasons…simply because the chain of transmission is long regardless of what the content is…or because its based more on culture…and we all know how hard it is to change culture there.

  42. I have to disagree with you Coolred, the chain AND it’s contents were both treated with kid gloves. I really have to go back through my old notes. Back in my earlier days as a Muslim (and pre-kids) I studied extensively and took many courses from Alim, Nawawi Foundation and Zaytuna. Over the years, I have forgotten a lot, but i am sure I took at least one course on the science of the classification of hadith. I remember it well because it gave me a migraine.

    I think it’s important to remember that the scholars “of old” who preserved our religion carefully, devoted their entire existence to the preservation of our deen. They weren’t the types to be lolligagging around and simply cherry picking hadith that suited their desires or ones that better reflected their culture. They took all of it extremely seriously….if don’t believe me that’s fine, but it is all historically documented in great, great detail. The historical biographies of all the ancient scholars are there from hundreds of years ago for all to read. They were amazing people, for whom I have the utmost respect.

    Want an example? Just read the introduction that Ghazali wrote to his book which was translated by Montgomery Watt in “The Faith and Practice of Al-Ghazali”. It will make you feel like so small and unaccomplished, it’s unbelievable.

    Anyways, I wanted to clarify that I don’t think anyone claims that dogs are all out haraam. The are permissible, just within parameters. If I could, I would own one….you would just never find it lying on my couch.

  43. sabiwabi, I find myself agreeing with everything you’ve said.. starting from your first comment here till this very last one.
    I like cats myself!
    Carol has beautiful cats! LOVED them!

  44. You can disagree with me of course but a curasory glance at many hadith will back up my claim that content was less important than chain of transmission,…that would account for contradictory hadith with each other and with the Quran.

    It matters little how long the chain of transmission is for a hadith if it contradicts the Quran…it shouldnt be accepted weak or otherwise…but quite often they are accepted….and if they contradict each other then which one do we follow?

    i stand by my claim…length of chain is often considered more valuable then content when it comes to hadith.

  45. Thanks Nader…and I love cats too but my allergies go bonkers with cats, even more so than dogs.

    Coolred, that’s okay….still love ya! ;)

  46. I am muslim and not a dog owner, i am scared of them, they bark a lot and i dont like much noise. My parents owned dogs when I was young but they gave it away.

  47. Sabiwabi,

    The scholars and everyone involved in creating “hadith sciences” were men. Unless they were prophets themselves they, by the very fact that they were men, made mistakes and had their own personal bias.

    There is no other way to explain what seems to be some EXTREME differences between what is in The Qur’an and it’s spirit to what is in many hadith and their spirits.

    In this case The Qur’an, the literal word of God, says that angels were in the caves with the dogs. Here comes men, who by whatever means, claim a hadith that is the exactly opposite of the word of God.

    Someone has to be right. Either it is God, or a chain of human scholars.

    I choose God. I do know that many people have a respect of scholars that does border on worship, but when their ideas obviously contradict in a pretty plain fashion the word of God then it is clear they are wrong. I dont care if a line of 1,000,000 scholars agrees with something, if it clearly goes against The Qur’an then it doesnt matter.

    Hadith says no angels occupy spaces with dogs, the word of God says they do.

    If you worship scholars, if you take their word as God’s then the hadith stands. If you value the word of God then the hadith falls.

    History is FULL of instances where long held ideas turned out to be complete rubbish. The ONLY thing that can be counted on from the begining of time until the end is the word of God.

    I worship God, not scholars, and I have a brain of my own. When something clearly goes against The Qur’an I can figure it out for myself.

  48. I am not commenting on the debate about this particular hadith going on here, but I do think we should remember that while scholars and learned people are not de facto correct, they do sometimes have a more subtle understanding of issues that can resolve apparent contradictions. So we needn’t take anyone’s word with no salt at all, but also we should know that other people may be able to reason more intelligently on a particular topic, and so we certainly should ask learned people for their opinions– and (politely) how they came to hold them.

  49. @Hana,

    I got you, but when things are so obvious, as in this case, there is no need to go to a scholar.

    The Qur’an clearly says one thing, hadith clearly says something else. There is no fine line. Hadith say angels wont abide where dogs are, The Qur’an clearly says they have, and will.

    One or the other is wrong, it is up to people to pick to whom they will listen to. Some, clearly, will pick the scholars, others, Alhamdulillah, will take the word of God as proof enough.

  50. “They consult you concerning what is lawful for them; say, Lawful for you are all good things, including what trained dogs and falcons catch for you. You train them according God’s teachings. You may eat what they catch for you, and mention God’s name thereupon. You shall observe God. God is most efficient in reckoning.”

    Just curious – what translation is this? Because the Arabic doesn’t specify either dogs or falcons. In any case, this has all been covered in fiqh. You can hunt with trained animals (e.g., dogs or falcons) that have been trained not to eat any of the prey.

  51. Abu Sinan,

    I don’t believe that I was advocating scholar worship.

    Advocating erring on the side of caution? Yes.

    Hana,

    Here’s a subtley that I was thinking about last night:

    The people in the cave were ancient, pre-Judaic people. They existed before Allah had revealed Judaism, Islam, or Christianity. Now the question is, could Allah have changed the ruling on the permissiblity of dogs abiding with humans at some point? Could he have instructed the angels to no longer approach the homes of the people who choose to keep dogs? It’s plausible. Take into consideration the restrictions and rulings (by the hundreds) that were placed on Bani Israel but somehow didn’t make it into the final revelation of Islam. Or how about the fact that wine was permissible to previous groups, but stopped being so at the advent of Islam? That’s just one way you can look at it. But I am not claiming to have the answer, it’s just a possibility.

  52. What about your two angels that are assigned to be with you always recording your good and bad deeds…those cannot leave or shirk their duty…and obviously cant leave you just because you enter a house with a dog…they have no choice but to do their job…so exactly what angels are we talking about that cant enter dog filled houses? All angels or some specific ones? Just wondering.

  53. Muslims arent allowed to have dogs as pets its as simple as that!
    We can keep them outside and use them for security purposes but they arent allowed inside. This isnt my personal opinion but its what the ulema say. Period.
    Oh and the black dog in Islam is satan, so if it comes infront of you when your praying and doesnt move you can actually kill it (lol, i know ill get slated for this by everyone here but its true)

  54. Coolred- Did you base that on your personal opinion or is it from a Muhaddith
    (Scholar of science of Ahadeeth).

  55. In Islam personal opinions are forbidden. If anyone wants information on a certain issue there are lots of scholars in riyadh and medina (and also refer to books by the kibaar al ulema like shaikh bin baaz and shaikh ibn uthaymeen) Islam has clear guidelines if one wants to follow them. So debating about Aqeedah and Fiqh on a public forum is foolish and usually they get messy. And for the non muslims- please go to an islamic bookshop (youre not going to learn anything here ;)

    As we know daleel (evidence/sources) plays an important part in attaining knowledge so here are some references;

    Hadith – Mishkat, Transmitted by Abu Dawud and Darimi
    The Prophet said, “Were dogs not a species of creature I should command that they all be killed; but kill every pure black one.” [Muslim, Narrated AbuDharr: "...The black dog is a devil."]

    Hadith – Bukhari 4:531, Narrated ‘Aisha
    The Prophet said, “Five kinds of animals are mischief-doers and can be killed even in the Sanctuary: They are the rat, the scorpion, the kite, the crow and the rabid dog.”

    Hadith – Muwatta 2.36
    Yahya related to me from Malik from Abu’z-Zinad from al-Araj from Abu Hurayra that the Messenger of Allah said, “If a dog drinks from your vessel, wash it seven times.”

    Hadith – Bukhari 3:515, Narrated Abu Huraira
    I heard Allah’s Apostle saying; “Angels (of Mercy) do not enter a house wherein there is a dog or a picture of a living creature (a human being or an animal).”

    Hadith – Bukhari 3:515, Narrated Abu Huraira
    Allah’s Apostle said, “Whoever keeps a dog, one Qirat of the reward of his good deeds is deducted daily, unless the dog is used for guarding a farm or cattle.” Abu Huraira (in another narration) said from the Prophet, “unless it is used for guarding sheep or farms, or for hunting.” Narrated Abu Hazim from Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, “A dog for guarding cattle or for hunting.”

  56. @Sabiwabi,

    It makes no sense. One of the reasons I became a Muslim was because I didnt like the convaluted ways that Christians had to come up with justify their beliefs.

    Twisting and turning like this to try and make something haram that God never did makes us JUST like the Christians. God didnt have ANYTHING negative to say about dogs. MEN came later and tried to insert that into the religion.

    Coming from a Catholic background I reject all of the man made, inserted mumbo jumbo that had no clear basis in the religious text.

    Coolred has a good point. If dogs are so evil that they wont enter a house with one in it, what about those angels that are keeping track of our deeds? Do you get a free pass when you are outside with the dogs protecting your house? I mean, if the dogs are so bad I am sure that the angels flee when they are near right?

    Great……….now I can see some ultra Salafi scholar saying anything goes when you have a dog around as there are no angels there to record your bad deeds? Heck, if they can legalise misiyar marriage, they can legalise ANYTHING!

    So if the hadith is true any house that has a dog means there are NO angels recording the deeds of those in the house! PARTY TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!! Everyone who wants to drink, smoke, do drugs, have sex with everyone around the block……….just get a dog and no angels will be there to record it!

    @Dxb,

    You are obviously one of those Muslims who has turned off their brain and like a robot says “what did the scholars say?”……………”what did the scholars say”?

    Sorry to say this, but on the last day these scholars arent going to stand in front of God to justify their deeds, you will have to do it, and saying “the scholars told me so” wont be an excuse.

    This mind dead excuse of not thinking for yourself is another reason I became a Muslim instead of being Catholic. If I wanted to point at clerics to tell me what to do…………….why bother?

  57. Abu Sinan-
    Lol angels may not enter the house because its unclean but Allah is the all seer and all doer ;)

    Im not a robot, i just didnt know people insult here! but the minhaj(methodology) I follow (which happens to be the salafi madhab (and the madhab of the majority of saudi’s),goes like this in order;

    Allahs words ie the QURAAN
    The sunnah (which happens to be ahadeeth- the quraan and the sunnah go hand in hand btw)
    The Tabieen
    and then The scholars

    Yes there is an element of taqleed (blind following) but the scholars almost always speak with reference to hadeeth and the quraan.
    There is a whole science behind learning the quraan and we have scholars of hadith that have indeed dedicated their whole lives to studying it. Thats why when we want to learn we usually refer to them. We also refer to them on contemporary issues. If we were to ‘turn on our brains’ and make the decisions for ourselves which ahem some muslims have hence the suicide bombings and god knows what else muslims seem to be doing nowadays the situation would get rather ugly and disastrous and indeed it has..

    There is a hadeeth that says if a scholar says something right he gets one reward and if he gets something wrong he gets two rewards. We hold them in high regard and inshaAllah Allah knows best.
    Islam is unfortunately not based on personal opinion (i think no religion is!)
    sorry :)

  58. Dxb–the hadith you cite seem to give clear recommendations about the limits of keeping dogs rather than making tham forbidden.

    1) Dogs are Muslim as are all creatures. The evil ones, the black ones [a common pre-Islamic belief and 7th century belief], should be killed, eg. rabid dogs, dogs that attack small children, overly aggressive dogs, etc.

    2) It is permissible [not obligatory] to kill animal mischief doers in the sanctuary, including dogs who presumably are easy to remove from the sanctuary by other means.

    3) If a dog drinks from your drinking utensil, wash it out seven times. Given knowledge of transmission of disease at the time, and the lack of rabies and other dog vaccines, this would be a wise decision. Dog saliva has few types of bacteria, and grows less bacteria when cultured compared to human saliva, but isn’t sterile, would potentially have germs for which humans have little resistance, and most people today lack familiarity with rabies and its devastation–very familiar to people of the 7th century.

    4) Apparently according to other Hadith, Angels of Mercy, will visit if the dog is put outside temporarily and any “dog mess” cleaned up. This was true too of the Angel Gabriel’s visit to the Prophet. Keeping a hygienic home, having the dog mess outside, cleaning a dog mess promptly, and keeping the dog out of certain rooms, including the prayer room, would all seem to be sufficient

    5) Put your dogs to useful purpose, like hunting, herding, or guarding (the most common activities in the desert at at the time) or suffer a daily deduction of 1 qirat against your good deeds. 1Qirat is a minimal sum, indicating a minimal punishment, easily made up.

    Current dogs work as companion animals, guides, hunters, herders, guards, police assistants (including drug sniffing), military assistants (including bomb sniffing), therapy animals (aids to exercise, emotional development, socialization, responsibility), etc. Most pet dogs serve as various combinations of companion, therapy, guard, and hunting dogs. Since the presence of a barking dog of whatever size or breed has been shown to deter burglars, all companion animals, or seeming “pets” are guard dogs–even my aunt’s daschund who was so friendly she would probably give burglars a tour of the household valuables.

    Guide dogs have been approved by CAIR, and the Muslim Law Council (Shariah) UK, including for accompanying a blind English Muslim to the mosque and waiting in a caged in space under the staircase in the vestibule until he had finished prayers.

    All politics, or sect politics. aside, King Hussein of Jordan had a number of dogs as family pets to the children, including one with penchant for swimming toward Israeli territory and coast guard, during trips to Aqaba, reuiring the King to herd him back via seadoo. Another unfortunately, even after specialist behavioural therapy had to be put down as constitutionally too aggressive.

  59. @DXB – aren’t you glad you can express your views and opinions here on this blog? Given that Islam is supposed to be the most open, generous and forgiving religion, I find saying that “in Islam personal opinions are forbidden” to be pretty harsh and almost impossible to refrain from.

  60. American bedu- Glad? I just find topics based on the deen in your blog to be abit ignorant thats why i felt i had to speak up (based on sound daleel inshaAllah). I hardly ever send posts in but I dont like seeing muslims arguing amongst each other on topics of the deen.

    Why do we need to discuss and debate issues on fiqh and aqeedah on a open blog? I find it demeaning and disrespectful. At the same time i have enjoyed some of your other posts :)

    Islam is in indeed generous, forgiving and open but at the same it isnt up for debate. Like I said if you want to learn about Islam rather than shredding it to bits pick up a book, listen to a talk, visit an islamic site. The kingdom spend millions on Daawah every year, take advantage of it :)

    Chiara- I didnt say dogs were forbidden! There is actually a hadeeth that states that a prostitute once found a stray dog and fed him water. That prostitute was forgiven. So this indicates they are not forbidden and we should show kindness to all of Allah’s creatures.

    Hadith – Bukhari 4:538, Narrated Abu Huraira
    Allah’s Apostle said, “A prostitute was forgiven by Allah, because, passing by a panting dog near a well and seeing that the dog was about to die of thirst, she took off her shoe, and tying it with her head-cover she drew out some water for it. So, Allah forgave her because of that.”

  61. ‘A prostitute was forgiven by Allah…she took off her shoe, and tying it with her head-cover she drew out some water for it’

    Makes me wonder about just a couple things.

    1. Why was a prostitute wearing a headcover?

    2. God obviously wasn’t upset that she took it off in public!

  62. American bedu- The above comment by Lynn is exactly what i mean when it comes to debating islam and shredding it to bits.

    Lynn- I posted the hadith because it was related to dogs and showing kindness to animals. If you want to question hadith, consult an ulema/scholar. I dont explain hadith, and neither am i in a position to explain hadith in depth. Im not a scholar.

  63. American bedu- No offence but its disrespectful to have Allahs name and the prophet (sallallahualaihiwassalam) name next to a dog like that. My mother saw it too and was abit shocked by what youve done.

  64. @dbx :’angels may not enter the house because its unclean but Allah is the all seer and all doer’

    So why does God need these angels to follow us and write down our good and bad deeds?

  65. @Dbx,

    So if a scholar makes mistakes he is doubled in his reward? How STUPID is that? Someone is rewarded for leading people astry?

    Insane!

    But hey, remember the scholar that said that it is okay for men and women to work together as long as the men suckle the teet of the women?

    Since you like scholars, any chance anyone would mind their sister, mother or wife working with me? I mean, no one will be held to account, the scholar will get double the reward. No harm no foul right?

    LOL!

    Back to the hadith. The hadith about angels recording the deeds of everyone stands in opposition to the hadith about dogs keeping angels away. One MUST be wrong. They cannot contradict each other.

    There are so hadith that mention that the prophet recommended drinking camel’s urine! Drink up DBX!

  66. Dbx–your comments seemed to reflect that dogs were forbidden except in highly unusual circumstances, and I merely wanted to show that they are more permissible, or even recommended, than you and some others seemed to be implying. The discussion did make me look into the topic and reflect further so I thank you.

    I agree with you that personal insults are out of place, but as you are well aware, and moreso than I probably, not everyone here agrees with salafi understandings, and many see salafism as a red flag for debate. Most are probably more focussed on Saudi culture, and Islam as it relates to that, or get their nuances of Islam discussion on other blogs.

    Still, I did enjoy your contribution which is why I shared my thoughts in such detail. Salaam.

  67. Abu Sinan- Lol you are clearly still in the dark (and er its dxb lol, too late for you go to bed)…are you sure youre muslim! You neither have the ettiquettes when it comes to replying to a woman. Perhaps a trait from your jahiliyah!!
    Lynn- You sound very curious about Islam, consult a scholar ;)

    No more replying here..You people obviously are just here to bicker and take your daily frustrations out. Making comments without knowledge, chatting to strange muslim converts that make me wonder why they became muslim in the first place is upsetting. And most importantly insulting islam and the prophet is kufr. Insulting and poking fun at islam is a serious issue. Abu Sinan you need to recite the shahadah again mate ;)

    Done!

  68. Chiara-
    Assalamualaikum,
    Thank you!
    I dont expect anyone here to acknowledge my manhaj but as a muslim i do demand respect when it comes to topics of fiqhh, aqeedah and anything related to Islam. I dont think it matters what manhaj one follows, we are all still muslim and we do get offended when people start criticizing hadeeth or any other aspect of Islam.
    Debating culture or any topic of that sort is different but taking it as far as insulting Allah and his messenger shouldnt be tolerated.

    Wassalam

  69. Interesting post. I do consider myself Muslim and do NOT like dogs. I would not harm one but to me, even when I was a Catholic kid didnt like dogs.

    I love most animals. I am a reptile gal myself.

    El Fadl author of The Great Theft wrote a fatwa on digs. He told me personally he has 4 of his own.

    anthrogeek10

  70. correction: fatwa on DOGS! lol

  71. @Dxb,

    I dont see why you are getting bent out of shape over transposing of letters you use to post here? Big deal!

    I also find it funny that you complain about my manners, but include one of the most major sins in Islam when doing it.

    I am sure your “manhaj” has taught you that pronouncing takfir on another Muslim is a VERY grave sin.

    So you berate me for being rude, by being rude? Interesting.

    No one here has insulted Islam, the prophet or anyone else. Muslims do not loose the ability for critical thought simply by being born a Muslim, nor are converts required to suspend the ability for critical thought when they say the shahada.

    We are NOT Catholics. Scholars are NOT infallible and hadith are recorded by men and hence can be faked, lied about and manipulated.

    If you want infallibility I suggest you convert to Catholicism or adopt one of the sects of Shi’ite thought that require to follow the religious edicts of one scholar or another.

    As a Sunni Muslim I recognise that the word of God as expressed in The Qur’an is the ONLY thing in this world to is NOT subject to human error, including hadith which were recorded and categorised by imperfect humans and subject to error.

    We have pointed out several inconsistancies here between hadith and The Qur’an and the hadiths themselves. As we all know The Qur’an is perfect and hasnt changed, the flaws MUST be in the hadith and their collection.

    Anyway, I wonder what happens for the blind Muslim for whom numerous fatwa says that it is okay? Do we have a special sort of angel that are okay with hanging out in houses with service dogs for the blind? Or do all angels refuse these houses and hence their sins go unrecorded?

    Lets see……….a special sort of angel that was able to inhabit the caves with dogs as described by God in The Qur’an, a special “service dog friendly” set of angels for blind and other handicapped Muslims……and then the angels who just cannot stand dogs, they get special dispensation?

    It is just nonsense. There is nothing in The Qur’an that indicates this level of hostility to dogs and the hadith, as recorded by men prone to error, give different and conflicting accounts and ideas about dogs.

    To anyone who hasnt turned off their critical thinking facilities it is plain to see that the hadith are in error and contradict the word of God.

  72. Abu Sinan

    I was only trying to figure out in my head as to why the hadith remained authentic (sahih) all this time with such a blatant contradiction. I would actually love to hear a scholar explain this to me just to hear what they would say about it. I’m just curious cat.

    This whole hadith contradicting the Quran is just the tip of the iceberg. Ever here about the abrogated verses of the Quran? If you ever want a good headache, delve into it. Start with the famous “satanic verse” and move out from there. They had a special class about at Alim program…just on explaining the science of abrogation. Before Alim, I had never even heard of those things. Thought there were never problems with any verses of the Quran….man, was I shocked. Too bad that none of this is that simple.

    And LOL, you really don’t need to remind me about the Catholic stuff. Once bitten, twice shy. Trust me.

  73. @Dxb,

    Have you ever thought that the scholars taught you not to use your mind and always defer to their teaching was done purposely so they can have control over you and the millions like you.

    I know not all of the scholars do it on purpose, but they definitely created a class for themselves above the rest. It is institutionalized and you are simply a part of the herd that follows blindly. May be if you use your mind for once you will get this simple fact and start analyzing things for yourself

  74. @Sabiwabi,

    I am glad you are able to think about this rationally. There are clear contradictions between The Qur’an and many hadith I think.

    I am sure the scholars will have some way to twist and turn it and make it look okay, but when you have 1,000 years to work on it you can figure out a way to make almost anything look okay.

    Speaking of hadith, considered your hubby’s background have you ever read some hadith about Jews?

    “Allah cursed the Jews and the Christians, for they built the places of worship at the graves of their prophets.”

    Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith

    There are many out there. Oh, and they dont sell organic camel urine at Whole Foods, so I guess those out there that eat organic and follow every hadith have a problem with drinking camel urine like they say the prophet did.

    Narrated Abu Qilaba: “Anas said, “Some people of ‘Ukl or ‘Uraina tribe came to Medina and its climate did not suit them. So the Prophet ordered them to go to the herd of (Milch) camels and to drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they went as directed and after they became healthy, they killed the shepherd of the Prophet and drove away all the camels. The news reached the Prophet early in the morning and he sent (men) in their pursuit and they were captured and brought at noon. He then ordered to cut their hands and feet (and it was done), and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron, They were put in ‘Al-Harra’ and when they asked for water, no water was given to them.” Abu Qilaba said, “Those people committed theft and murder, became infidels after embracing Islam and fought against Allah and His Apostle . (Sahih Bukhari, Ablutions (Wudu’), Volume 1, Book 4, Number 234)”

  75. “in Islam personal opinions are forbidden”

    That pretty much explains where you are coming from.

  76. Dxb–in the hope you are still reading if no longer commenting on this thread, my apologies for earlier mis-spelling your name, and my thanks for your kind comment to me. I am glad that you have such a clear understanding of the different schools of Islam, and an acceptance of others’ beliefs, yet feel there is a need to speak up once certain lines are crossed.

    I think scholarship by genuine scholars is to be respected, and reflects understandings over time of complex texts, Quran and hadith in the case of Islam, and other religious texts for other religions. They do give guidance especially when a society is confronted with new moral or ethical challenges, such as the technological advances in medicine that have led to ethics challenges. Islamic scholars, whether fatwa pronouncing or not, have looked to the Quran and the Hadith to help determine the level of permissibility of certain types of medical intervention and therefore give guidance to patients, families, and health care professionals in difficult situations, like death and dying, organ donation and transplantation, and infertility.

    All 3 Abrahamic faiths have rules and scholars, and all 3 value free will as well as faith and submission. None values “blind faith” or unthinking adherence, specifically exempting the insufficiently intellectually developed or the “insane” from judgment on these accounts. Scholars, as well as direct reading, and the teachings of family, friends, and respected members of the community all help in making free-willed decisions, and taking free-willed actions, which will be judged by God/Allah.

    Since “urine therapy” is a part of alternative medicine, urine may be coming to a Whole Foods soon. However, since auto-urine therapy with morning urine (high melatonin content) is the only one with both historical (Hindu yoga practice) and proven scientific value (though not to the gold standard of double-blinded evidence) sales may be low. Also, Muslims need to be aware of the contradictory hadith regarding camel urine.

  77. Hi,
    I wouldn’t prefer the picture of a Dog and the Saudi Flag (With the Kalimah on it) next to each other.
    Please consider removing the image or altering the same.
    Thanks,
    -Yaseen

  78. Abu Sinan- How can hadith contradict the quraan? They go hand in hand.
    There are lots of things not mentioned in the quraan yet we find them in hadeeth are you going to negate those aswell??? You clearly have dedicated youre whole life to learning the science of ahadeeth and the quraan so ofcourse youre in the position to criticize scholars.
    Lol I made takfir?!?! Only shaikh rabee can do that ;)
    Im in no position to make takfir.Making takfir isnt as simple as just saying oh youre not muslim anymore!
    Years and years of advice are first offered to the person! (but u wouldnt know that because youre too arrogant to seek knowledge from the ulema)
    When i said insulting the messenger i was infact referring to picking at hadith not drinking camel urine.
    Please stop picking at hadith. Its a sin and you indeed need to do the shahaadah again.

    Saudi in US- Lol…saudi in US when you go to school do you not have teachers? Do you teach yourself? Youre comment makes no sense whatsoever. Are you too arrogant to seek knowledge from someone else?
    Its arrogance and a lack of knowledge that leads to ignorance and misguidance.

    Chiara- Thank you for your kind comments!

    Ok done ! Unless Abu Sinan (who clealry has nothing to do wants to provoke this further ;)

  79. Abu Sinan,

    LOL, If they don’t have camel urine yet, just wait….I’m sure some nutter out there has put in a special request with management!

    The Prophets diet is an interesting thing to study. It certainly was a diet that was strictly condusive to a harsh desert lifestyle and nothing more. I have a good friend who practices Chinese medicine and can name off a hundred herbs more powerful than black seed, yet you see Muslims all over the world who swear that it is the holy grail for health. It’s not, it’s just the best thing they were able to get there hands on in Mecca at the time. It’s not the ONLY blessed herb out there for heavens sake!!! (and the prophet never turned it into soap from what I have read…LOL).

    And yeah, the hadiths about the Jews was an interesting thing to read through to say the least as was/is the verses about the Jews in the Quran. You really need historical context with all of it. Another thing that was very hard for my hubby to deal with was when he first became Muslim and the brothers would ask him all the time: “Why do the Jews worship Ezra and not Allah” (because of the verse in the Quran). He was like, “what the heck are you talking about?!” Then they would point to the verse in the Quran.

    Oy vey.

  80. “Are you too arrogant to seek knowledge from someone else?”

    Exactly the point here. The problem you have is you limited learning to a set of elites that have controlled knowledge for centuries to benefit their class. You won’t listen to logical arguments unless it comes form such sources. Discussing any topic is a waste of time because you do not have your own mind. Just another member of the herd :)

    Now say BAAAAAAAAA 3 times and ask for forgiveness from your nearest scholar, for participating in this discussion.

  81. ‘Benefit their class” – would you care to elaborate ?

    Yup when it comes to Islam i dont have ‘personal views’…i would leave that to the people that have dedicated their whole lives to learning it.

    ‘Discussing any topic is a waste of time’- Any topic? The post was about dogs and why their considered unclean in Islam. You clearly have left your brain behind in Saudi lol

    Lol another muslim with no ettiquettes..subhanaAllah! Thats what we get with arrogant muslims that like to debate islam without having an ounce of knowledge..nevermind ;)

    Stay in the states, its where you belong ;)

  82. @Dxb,

    I am taking this to the debate page, because it is beyond teh topic of this article. Look for my answers there.

  83. Abu Sinan: “So if a scholar makes mistakes he is doubled in his reward? How STUPID is that? Someone is rewarded for leading people astry? Insane!”

    This is a very well-known hadith, but I guess you since you don’t like it, you’ll just discard it:

    “‘Amr b. al-‘As reported that he heard Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: When a judge gives a decision, having tried his best to decide correctly and is right, there are two rewards for him; and if he gave a judgment after having tried his best (to arrive at a correct decision) but erred, there is one reward for him.”

    Of course, it’s referring to someone who is qualified to make a judgment, not to just anyone.

    One of the examples often cited is when the Prophet (pbuh) sent a group of people to travel somewhere, and he told them they shouldn’t pray asr until they got to a certain place. The time for asr prayer came, and they hadn’t reached that place, so there were two opinions among the people: 1) pray here, because he was trying to hurry us, but he didn’t mean for us to miss the prayer, and 2) don’t pray until we get to that place. Later, when they mentioned this to the Prophet (pbuh), he didn’t say that either opinion was wrong.

    There’s a book called “The Ethics of Disagreement in Islam”, which can be read online at http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/TA_edi/Default.htm.

    I also ran across an article yesterday that is relevant to this discussion: “The Superiority of Fiqh Over Hadith” at http://www.sunnipath.com/Library/Articles/AR00000260.aspx.

  84. Asalam Alaykum,
    I live in Riyadh and I am very concerned with the way animals are treated here. My in laws said it is even worse in Jeddah. They have way to many pets in these stores to take care of them. I was in a pet store a few days ago and not one but TWO cats were about dead in the corner in different areas, HARAM. They do not even check them. They live in small cages, to many at a time, they do not clean them or their cages, their eyes are matted together. And they are HOT in the windows all day. I am so concerned and I want to do something.

    What can we do?

  85. Salam Alaikum Noor,

    I understand and share your concern. I’ve seen that myself and there just does not seem to be regulations in place regarding the well-being of the animals in some of the pet stores. It is quite disconcerting.

    Regards, Carol

  86. Is their no way to get someone to look into changing animal right laws here? Who do you talk to or what could you do? I am willing to try..

  87. Wow! What a lot of dialogue on this subject. I’m a little surprised to read about the poor treatment of animals in pet stores. Wouldn’t this be against Islam??

  88. Noor, you might get ideas from here: http://www.paws-kuwait.org/. There’s another animal rights organization, too, but I can’t remember the name now. (I don’t agree with everything they do, though; they promote having dogs as pets and then have a problem with families giving back the dogs, especially during Ramadan. They shouldn’t have them as pets in the first place – then there wouldn’t be a problem.)

    You could start writing letters to newspapers, etc. And emphasize the Islamic aspect, because mistreating animals is certainly forbidden in Islam. And there must be a government agency that’s in charge of those pet shops.

  89. Hi there love your blog re;dogs
    I AM MUSLIM (revert) from UK.

    I have had dogs since a teenager and Insha Allah will have a dog all my life.
    I know too many muslims who do think HARAM to have a dog inside the home, To which i am desperately trying to prove to them it is not! I had given them the cave verse fromthe Qur’an but still they believe the hadith over this :(
    Many muslim friends say it is ok to have dog no matter how small for guard but it must stay outside, my question is how can this dog protect you if it is not near to where you are???
    There are other ways of entry to your home other than through your yard to your door!!! As a woman i feel safe to know my dog id by my side, always alert to who is near by that may cause threat to me.
    Personally i do see some dogs as dirty or unclean, for example street dogs, of course they are they eat rubbish have their noses all over the dirty streets and have no vetinary care at all, unfortunately. But this is not their fault and i would still stroke a street dog if it allows me to just wash myself after, common sense really is needed!! Also what annoys me who feeds their dog with their own bowl these days?? why not buy him/her their own bowls for water and food then u do not worry about germs and the need to wash them so many times, once is enough, as this is the dogs bowl only.
    But as pets this is where i stand in firm belief these DOGS ARE CLEAN!!! as we as owners give them vetinary care, injections to stop our dogs catching diseases, worms etc and passing them on to us. Also if you know anything of dog training we train our dogs to relieve themselves away from the home, outside !

    My dog for example will only relieve himself on grass this is where he feels it is allowed (funny when u know a dog so well u see what they think on their faces) if he must relieve himself in a street or at home (when he is sick) he seems to have a disgusted little face and seems to act out of embarrassment…… This to me proves they think so much about what they do and if trained properly they act better than alot of people in this world!!! Hence the reason I LOVE DOGS SO MUCH and i thank Allah everyday for such a beautiful loving creature he made. If only we as humans learnt unconditional love like dogs! this world would be a better place for sure x x

  90. Munaqabah–thanks for the references in your comment to Abu Sinan, the second link doesn’t work but I found the article anyway from the title you gave.

    Jannah–nice name! Your comment reminded me that one good argument for keeping even guard dogs inside is the weather conditions outside, which can be harsher than the desert (-40C), and even milder temperatures and precipitation are harder on a number of breeds. Since Muslims are to treat all animals kindly, and not to abuse them, having them inside would be the Islamic thing to do, especially since most people don’t have a barn, animal shed, or heated animal shelter.

    The British Muslim Council that approved a dog in the mosque mentioned specifically that it was a breed that didn’t have a lot of saliva (slobber) and so less likely to soil the space or people.

    Your comments about training are very apropos. Most problems with a dog’s behaviour, indluding jumping, licking, and soiling are correctible by training..

  91. @Noor – I’m not sure who to go to exactly but I’ve no doubt that Dr. Majed could send you in the right direction at least.

    His number is: 0505208451

  92. I consider myself a believer in one God and that Muhammed was a messenger. I had a dog and am getting one very soon. Inshallah.

  93. Achelois, I just love that statement for some reason. What a great disclaimer……..

    “I consider myself a believer in one God and that Muhammed was a messenger aaaand”…..fill in the blank.

    Perfect.

  94. Well, Bedu asked us to state our religion and I don’t know if belief in one God and Muhammad as His messenger is enough proof for some that I am Muslim :D

  95. And what kind of a dog are you getting Achelois? Congrats!

  96. A Beagle. They are safe around children and can live in flats if provided enough opportunities for exercise.

  97. I just aquired me a set of poodles…they have already made my bed their own and apparently adore me..for some ungodly reason…follow me around and look longingly at me…not sure if its for food or petting…lol.

  98. @Achelois – Beagles are cute! While temporarily in Houston (in an apartment) we have been surprised not only by how many residents do have dogs, but actually large dogs in their apartments. I guess they can be more adaptable than we think.

    @coolred – Mabrook! What size are the poodles? I bet they are simply darling.

  99. So what’s new? Everyone knows Islam’s worst enemy is none other than the Muslims themselves

  100. yes we are allowed to keep in Islam but outside

  101. @Joe,

    Welcome and thank you for your comment!

  102. [...] be a completely foreign and unknown term but among many Saudis and others of the Muslim faith, dogs are viewed as ‘haram’ or forbidden.  Therefore asking for something with connotations to the [...]

  103. I wanna know why Muslims single out dogs as dirty…I give my dog a bath every week, she stays inside the garage, and when she goes outside, I give her a bath when she comes back in. My husband is a Muslim (in the term, submission to God, I am too, but I don’t follow Islam) and he doesn’t mind dogs, but his family will FREAK out if my dog comes near them. His mom almost cries! But his cat is a loved member of the family. She eats our food, and sleeps with us, and does everything with us. My dog is a service dog, and yet she isn’t allowed in the house, he doesn’t even want her in the car, even tho I argue that because she is supposed to go everywhere with me. I love my dogs, and as a kid I slept with our dogs every night. I grew up on a farm and we always kept our animals clean and in the house, except when they wanted to go, then we would let them out for a little while, then right back in. But my initial question being, if I keep my dog clean, she doesn’t eat her own poo, she doesn’t roll in poo, and I give her regular baths, why is she considered dirty?

  104. Oh, and when I ask why, all I get is, Mohamed said so, but no REAL answer. I believe Allah ALWAYS provides reason for doing the things he tells us to do.

  105. Crazii Rabbit…actually Prophet Mohammed didnt really say so….but more to the point…God didnt say so. Arabs have a cultural stigma attached to owning dogs…based on some suspect hadith…and thus Muslims around the world must bow in respect to the almighty Arabs thought process….circular though it might be.

    So say I.

  106. Salam alaykum

    Muslim dog owner .

    Since i was born i always passionate about animals but was never allowed to keep a pet.When i started practising my religion and wearing hijab at the age of 17 i just accepted that keeping a dog in the house was unlawful.Then when i went to Swizterland for the first year and saw all of the dog owners with thr lovely companions i was moved, I started quistioning myself and after a long extensive research i actually came up with many the advantages of dogs and the positive points that the commenters left behind .Therefore my conclusion were dogs are not haram. I quickly got a dog once i moved into the apartment.I have been having my siberian husky ‘Raj’ now for 2 years and a half ,he is my baby and my best buddy .
    Unfotuntly i get alot of positive reactions but sometimes alot of negetive reactions..ooo she is covered but she has a dog…oooooooo…and once a non muslim woman verbally attacked me ,she was like it does not match..and she was kind of crazy and from the street and rude…some one said islam dispises dogs muslims hate dogs…im like do i look like i hate my dog?
    So its really annoying

  107. @fifi,

    I so enjoyed reading of your experience and your love of your dog. Siberian husky’s are such beautiful dogs and if I’m correct, aren’t they the ones with the striking blue eyes too?

    And welcome to the blog!!

  108. Salaam mualakum everyone, I’m an American Muslim of Spanish and Turkish descent and a 19-year old college guy and I really liked this blog I actually looked into the subject of dogs in Islam and after some research I find that dogs are NOT haraam at all, if you just read Surah Al-Kahf ( The Cave) where the sleepers and their dog were together in the cave and so that pretty much shoots down the arguement that dogs are bad, I’m actually planning to get a German Shepherd Dog by next year in the summer inshallah, I’m an Aspie(Asperger’s syndrome which is a mild form of Autism)so I think a dog can really be a good and loyal friend to me. Salaam

  109. Sami,

    We have two kids with Autism, one is 17 years old and little Sinan is 4. We got an English Labrador for him.

    Religious wise there is no sensible argument to be made against dogs. Our hardest thing was getting my Saudi wife, who has never spent any real time around dogs, to get used to the puppy. Now she loves him!

  110. Salaam Abu Sinan, I liked many of your ideas and arguments as I was reading all the comments, when I was younger I used to hate dogs because my Muslim father told me they were dirty and blah blah blah but when I got older it wasn’t until a year ago(I was 18 at the time) that I started to research Islam and think for myself, I researched on the subject of dogs in Islam and I found that all the bad things he said about dogs was crap, and so I went the other way and now I like dogs,especially the German Shepherd Dog my all time favorite breed, and so Abu Sinan is your dog inside or outside or both? were does he sleep? This is going to be my first dog inshallah and anyway I just bought a book on how to take care of them. I’m thinking he’ll be both an inside and outside dog I probably get him a pet bed(which looks like an oversized pillow) and put it either in the living room or my room, I let him be in the house but I’ll reserve a room for prayer( I don’t want to bow my head on dog hair on the floor! lol) but anyway I think this will be a new experience for me, but I’m not planning to get the dog until Summer 2010 inshallah.(next year) What do you think?

  111. masha’allah Sami! It sounds like you certainly have done a lot of research about dogs themselves and dogs and culture and religion. Dogs are also beautiful creatures but I will point out that they do take work such as making sure they get to relieve themselves as well as getting exercise. And of course you would want your dog to be housetrained if you are going to have it inside with you. A dog can be a very loyal and loving companion.

  112. Salaam American Bedu thank you for your support, I think having a dog will help me physically and mentally, first he’ll motivate me to get my behind off the computer and exercise and secondly I’ll have a loyal friend that won’t judge me and he’ll be someone to talk to, I have another seven months so its good to plan ahead, I’m going to move with my Christian mom(my parents are divorced) because my dad is going to give me a problem(He wants him out no matter if the weather is bad) about the dog but my mom has no problem(she used to have a collie named Jesse but he died when I was 8)with the dog, my mom respects me being Muslim and we have no problem I get along with my mom more than my dad ironically because at least I’m able to practice Islam without the cultural baggage.

  113. Wa’alaikum Salam Sami,

    It sounds like you have quite a special Mom who understands your need to have your faith and desire to want a pet. And yes, a dog will be loyal and as long as your dog receives love, food, kindness and shelter, he will not judge.

    I am sure all of us here at American Bedu following your comments are looking forward to hearing when you receive your dog and seeing pictures!

  114. “It doesn’t say anywhere in the Quran that dogs are not allowed or even unclean. All these interpretations are based on on one hadith only, which merely states that if you feed your dog out of your own bowl you should wash it properly. Nothing about dogs saliva being some sort of magically unclean stuff, just clean your bowls thouroughly after your dog has eaten out of them. Excellent advice, I always do that.”

    There is also another Hadith where Mohammed comes home to find a dog in the house and he got really mad. I believe it is book four. Not sure, but I am not a muslim and I argue with my muslim husband all the time about letting my little dog inside out of the cold and he always says no. It makes me so mad!!

  115. Thanks guys inshallah when I do get the dog I’ll probably post pictures and I do have a youtube account if you guys want to see. You probably will have to wait to June 2010 or so sometime next year but during that time I’m going to save my money to pay for everything his food, medical and he won’t really have to worry about shelter since he’ll have his little pet bed in the house and he can go out when he has to go or simply to run around and have fun, but anyway I’m planning to get a in particular a male German Shepherd puppy maybe 10 to 12 weeks old or so I already thought of a name ‘Zaki’ what do you guys suggest?

  116. Sounds great Sami. German Shepherds are great pets. They are so very smart and they just love you to death! You can train them to do so many things. You are going to love that dog.

  117. Not to mention they are very protective without any formal training…all though its better to train them in order to control their naturally protective instincts. (had 2 of them when young so I can attest to it)

  118. Sami,

    I forgot to ask where you are but if in Riyadh, I’m sure Dr. Majed can help you get your German Shepherd and give you pointers on training him too.

  119. @Sami,

    Our little guy is almost 5 months old now. He is inside and outside. We have “crate trained” him so he sleeps in his create. Dogs actually like the crates, I guess it goes back to their “den” reflex from their wolf background. It is also the BEST way to potty train them. We have had him for three months now and he has only had an accident inside twice.

    We are a VERY clean family so we do something we night suggest for you. Every time he comes into our place we wipe his paws with baby wipes to keep from tracking stuff into the house. We also wipe his behind so he doesnt bring any of that stuff into the place. We wash him once a week with baby soap (recommended by his breeder/vet) and we brush his teeth at least once a week.

    A lot of dog food actually has pork, so we check to make sure any food we buy him doesnt have pork. Not that Islamic dietary laws apply to dogs, we just dont want pork in the house on any level. We also use “Frontline” tick and flear preventer, it is great stuff.

    We have had him three months and if you walked into our place you’d NEVER know it. No smell, no mess. We like to tell people our dog is a Muslim, lol.

    We got a yellow lab, great dogs for people with needs, that is why they are most often used as service dogs.

    Our little guy with Autism is still getting to know him, although he’ll touch him now, and he gets the BIGGEST smiles when he looks at him, especially when he is playing.

    Good luck!

  120. Salaam mualakum, umm American Bedu I’m not Saudi and I’m not anywhere near Riyadh I’m actually mixed Turkish and Spanish and I live in California in the US near LA in a small city called Covina. And Abu Sinan thanks for the advice wow you go to great lengths to keep in clean that’s very good, and about dogs being Muslim totally agree all animals in fact are Muslims because they submit to God in Surah 6:38 it says that animals praise God and live in communities like us. I’m glad you treat the dog very well, I always heard that dogs were good for people with Autism. I went to Friday prayer at the mosque today I usually go every Friday after classes and I talked with some of the knowledgeable Muslims who seemed open to ideas(or so I thought) and I talked with him about dogs and he told me not to be involved with that and that I don’t need a dog, it seems to me I shouldn’t talk about it because it could give trouble so I guess I have to keep this dog business between me and you guys because I figure well they don’t need to know its a private thing, what you guys think?

  121. Right there is a prime example of what we discussed in the post about what Muslims can do to improve the image of Islam.

    Sami, if you are confident that you are right in your belief that dogs ARE allowed why would you allow another to make you keep that to yourself? Who gave those people the right to shut you down? Why can’t you be the one to shut THEM down if you believe that you are right?

  122. What I’m mainly afraid of is the pressure, even though I did do my research and i repeatedly told them that there’s no evidence from the Koran and scant evidence from the Hadith and I told him I’m convinced there’s not enough evidence that dogs are bad I often point out Surah Al Kahf of the sleepers of the cave with the dog counted among them. It’s very hard to curb this because tradition is deeply rooted, if dogs were so dirty like the pig why didn’t God mention it, if it were mentioned in the Koran I wouldn’t argue but isn’t and in fact the Koran views the dog positively. The thing is people blindly follow their clerics without looking it up and thinking for themselves, but I rather not bring it up unless I’m with my dog and some of my fellow Muslims question why I have a dog than I’ll defend my position and tell them the best of my ability of why I think there’s nothing wrong with dogs. I do enjoy talking with you guys, what do you think?

  123. Not that I think dogs shouldn’t be touched, but from my understanding of the People of the Cave, the dog slept just outside so that angels would be able to enter.

  124. Its hard to espouse “tradition” when it comes to belief about dogs being haram…considering many converts take on those same beliefs…and many of those grew up with dogs…go figure. But I understand what you mean. Best advice…ignore the naysayers and enjoy your new best friend.

  125. @Sami,

    I thnk what you are doing is great, trying to help yourself and learning to be able to think about Islam critically. There is no pillar in Islam labeled “You SHALL Obey Scholars

    It is a cultural issue, and like so many other things in the Muslim world, it is mistaken for religion.

    Dogs are okay in the deen and even for those people who do not think they are there are fatawa out there that allow “service dogs” and that is exactly what a dog is for a person with autism, blindess or any number of other conditions.

    I read one fatwa where the scholar even said that services dogs are allowed in mosques. Yep…………….dogs are allowed in mosques if they are there to help people.

    You give me hope Sami. Insha’Allah, our little guy with autism grows up to be as independent and free thinking as you are.

  126. I just remembered a tv article that was done in England about a young man who was blind. His local masjid built a place for his guide dog WITHIN the masjid so that the young man could attend the masjid more regularly.

    They had a comfortable place for the dog to rest whilst another person would escort his owner to the place of prayer and everyone loved the idea.
    One thing the Imam stressed was the point made above (Sami Bakir) that dogs are viewd positively in the Qur’an. Also the hadith of the lady promised paradise for giving a dying dog water springs into my mind.
    I will try to search for the link because pets are a very good thing to have and do offer health benefits to all ages.

    Sorry I just noticed Abu Sinan’s comment. Sorry to repeat the same thing.

  127. Sami, as long as you stay true to your beliefs then there should be no pressure at all. If anyone were ever to say anything just proudly assert your opinion and move along. If people continue to question you all you have to say is ‘I disagree’ and then salaam them and move along. You’ll see, pressure lessens as you gain confidence in your beliefs.

  128. Salaam Sabaa from what I’ve read about the people of the cave is that the dog was COUNTED among the sleepers of the cave meaning he was IN THE CAVE he was either at the entrance of the cave from the inside or in a space inside near the entrance of the cave, according to one interpretation by Muhsin Khan in which I agree, it seems the most rational way to look at it, if dogs were so bad and dirty like the pig as you believe why didn’t God mention it if it was that critical? Hadith is important don’t get me wrong but Koran is first and its 100% accurate since its from God while hadith is not nearly as accurate since it was compiled by man 250 years after the Prophet’s(AS) death and so with reading hadith historical context and making a critical analysis is vital. The hadith about the angel not entering a home with a dog in it sounds completely ridiculous and clearly contradicts the Koran and therefore should be dropped. If the dog wasn’t in the cave then he wouldn’t be counted but he was, so he must’ve been in the cave, like for example there’s a group of people sleeping in a room everybody in there would be counted and people outside the room wouldn’t be counted, that’s from my understanding after months of research so sabaa your entitled to have your opinion and I’m entitled to mine, if you don’t like dogs that’s fine with me but I like them and I’m convinced that there’s no evidence from the Koran and very meagre evidence from the hadith that dogs are dirty, we shouldn’t make things haraam unless there’s strong compelling evidence for it, I’m convinced there’s nothing wrong with having a dog as long as you keep your prayer area, the dog and yourself clean if the dog(or any animal) licks you, wudu is not necessary just wash the area where he licked you its just basic cleanliness, Everyone has a right to interpret Islam for themselves through reason as long as it doesn’t contradict the Koran and they have support for their claim.

  129. One more thing I would like to add for everyone, for the most part I’m a practicing Muslim, I actually do pray five times a day(even though I slip up sometimes)I started to pray five times a day since last Ramadan before I did 1,2 or 3 times a day but now I got in to the habit, I give zakat when I can, I fast for Ramadan(last ramadan was my second time that I fasted the whole month).I don’t drink alcohol, I don’t eat pork, I don’t gamble, I don’t do drugs,I don’t smoke, I don’t hurt anyone, on the other hand I like music,TV,video games, soccer and my favorite thing to do is read and seek knowledge,I’m not perfect and no one is and do have my share of bad habits, I personally believe you can be a good Muslim and have a dog at the same time, I see no problem with that, Salaam everybody.

  130. I was born into Islam but I am actually a spiritual person. I don’t like the attitude of Muslims towards dogs and it breaks my heart the way they are being treated. WE MUST HELP THE PETS AT THE PET STORES. LET US ALL CHIP IN AND FIND HOMES FOR THOSE SWEET ANIMALS. It is sooo sad that they are being held in cages, treated badly, left cold and hungry. I am willing to pay for families to adopt a dog or a cat. LET US ALL HELP.

  131. @Sami,

    Music, TV, video games and soccer do not have anything to do with Islam. As long as the stuff you do partake in isnt nasty, you know bad content in the music and the like there is no issue.

    Once again, those are things the extremists and others put up to try and make things hard on middle of the road Muslims.

    Sounds like you are on a good path!

  132. Dear American Bedu,

    I enjoyed reading this blog and many others, thank you.

    I am not a Muslim and I own a dog, a 4.5 months old German Shephered. I need some help on bringing my puppy to KSA in terms of how to obtain an import permit, can I bring him prior to obtaining my Igamma or not, etc. Any information you or anyone else reading this blog can provide would be greate.

    BTW, I am moving to Riyadh by the end of this week so if anyone knows of a house for rent that will accomodate my family (including my dog) please provide contact information.

    Thanks,

  133. Welcome Ghassan!

    You will likely need to have your dog classified as a ‘guard dog’ since Saudi allows dogs only as seeing eye dogs or guard dogs. Don’t worry…this is typical and I even know of a poodle that was brought in as a guard dog!

    However you will need to coordinate with your sponsor if you can bring your dog with you or if they want you to wait until after the 3 month probationary period.

    Fortunately most compounds will allow pets.

    Good luck!

    and if you have not done so, you may want to join the yahoo group saudipets@yahoogroups.com which has excellent info for pets in KSA.

  134. Well Abu Sinan I have my faults but I’m trying to be a good Muslim, I try to stay on the middle road and to avoid going to either extreme, these mullahs and scholars seem to be looking for more things to make haraam, but anyway here’s an article I just found on the Saluki Dog, for some reason the Bedouin say dogs are dirty and all that but they make the exception with the Saluki dog, they really love those dogs and they say they let their Saluki dogs sleep in their homes with them they said to sleep on rugs and cushions and even with members of the household. I’m all right with that but it gives a clear indication that culture makes a big influence on how traditional Islamic law was formed.

  135. @Sami,

    I also wrote an earlier article about Saudi and its Saluki’s you may enjoy too:

    http://americanbedu.com/2009/01/08/saudi-arabia-and-its-salukis/

  136. I liked your article American Bedu, I liked it, I mean I’ve seen this youtube video about the Arabian Saluki center showing how well they treat their Salukis if they let them walk around the house, sleep on the sofa and sometimes sleep alongside their owners why can’t I do the same with my German Shepherd Dog? It’s the same thing, with the exception of a room reserved for prayer I let him sleep on a pet bed either in the living room but more than likely at the foot of my bed especially when he’s puppy when he will need me the most.Salaam

  137. @Sami,

    I have no doubt that your German Shephard is going to be a very lucky and well loved pet!

  138. Inshallah to that American Bedu I’m glad to find this blog, because I can actually speak my mind here without being condemned or scrutinized, thanks for your support everyone, Salaam

  139. you are most welcomed here Sami.

  140. So I have been doing more research on this subject and it hurts me to think of the things that are said about dogs in the Hadith….” One morning Allah’s Messenger was silent with grief. Maymunah said: Allah’s Messenger, I find a change in your mood today. Allah’s Messenger said: Gabriel had promised me that he would meet me last night, but he did not meet me. By Allah, he never broke his promises; and Allah’s Messenger spent the day in this sad (mood). Then it occurred to him that there had been a puppy under their cot. He gave an order and it was turned out. He then took some water in his hand and sprinkled it on the place. When it was evening Gabriel met him and he said to him: You promised me that you would meet me the previous night. He said: Yes, but we do not enter a house in which there is a dog or a picture. So the very next morning he commanded the dogs to be killed. He announced that the dog kept for the orchards should also be killed, but he spared the dog used for the protection of extensive fields (or big gardens). ”
    Why did he kill ALL the dogs?!!
    The Prophet said, “Were dogs not a species of creature I should command that they all be killed; but kill every pure black one.” [Muslim, Narrated AbuDharr: "...The black dog is a devil."]
    WHY?!!!
    Do you honestly think that God would create a creature for us to just hunt down and kill and wipe out? It seems disrespectful and demeaning to God’s ability to create good things.
    “My father bought a slave who practiced the profession of cupping. (My father broke the slave’s instruments of cupping). I asked my father why he had done so. He replied, “The Prophet forbade the acceptance of the price of a dog or blood, and also forbade the profession of tattooing, getting tattooed and receiving or giving Riba, (usury), and cursed the picture-makers.”
    Why is selling a dog a bad thing? I mean don’t we sell other animals? What makes a dog different?

    These Hadith hurt my heart

  141. Crazii rabbit I’ll give you a few links on the details of the subject these Hadiths are farbrications many of these anti-dog hadiths are usually mere superstition and the biases of people who attribute it to the Prophet(pbuh) any hadith that contradicts the Koran is not true because the Koran is from God while the hadiths were compiled 250 years after the Prophet(pbuh) died there is definetley true hadiths out there but many of them unfornately are liable to human error but any way here are the links I hope this helps
    http://www.islamicconcerns.com/dogs.asp
    http://www.scholarofthehouse.org/tloofesfaond.html
    These articles are very good and virually shoot down the arguement that dogs are dirty, after reading these articles, I truly believe that there’s nothing wrong with dogs.
    Salaam(Peace),
    Sami

  142. Angel Jibreel is incapable of lying…breaking a promise is basically lying. If he promised to meet the prophet…nothing would have stopped him as nothing could stop him…an angel does what he is supposed to do…there is no choice (according to the Quran). A dog in the house would not stop an angel..angels cannot be stopped from their duty…period.

  143. According to Islaamic Sharee’ah, it is not permitted to keep a dog except within narrowly-defined limits, as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) explained: “Whoever keeps a dog, his good deeds will decrease every day by one qeeraat (a unit of measurement), unless it is a dog for farming or herding.” According to another report: “. . . unless it is a dog for herding sheep, farming or hunting.” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, al-Fath, 2322)

    Whoever keeps a dog in his house is denied the blessing of the angels’ presence in his house, as the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The angels do not enter a house in which there is a dog.” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 3225).

    Keeping dogs nowadays is the habit of most the people, who adopt them as friends, kiss them, let them lick them and their clothes, sleep with them and even leave them money in their wills. Some Muslims may claim that they need to keep a dog at home for purposes of protection, to which we respond that nowadays there are burglar alarm systems and other measures one may take for security purposes, and there is no need to keep a dog, praise be to Allaah.

    It only remains for us to say that the fact that it is forbidden to keep a dog and interact closely with it does not mean that we should not be kind or feel compassion towards dogs if we see them in a pitiful state. These are two entirely separate matters. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told us that “a man saw a dog biting the dust because of thirst, so he took his shoe and started to scoop water up with it until the dog’s thirst was quenched. Allaah appreciated his good deed and granted him entry to Paradise for it.” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, no. 174)

    According to another report, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whilst a man was walking he became very thirsty, so he went down to a well and drank from it. When he came out, he saw a dog panting and biting the soil because of thirst. The man said, ‘He is suffering the same as I suffered,’ so he filled his shoe (with water), came out and let the dog drink until his thirst was quenched. Allaah appreciated his good deed and forgave him because of it.” The people asked, “O Messenger of Allaah, will we be rewarded for how we treat animals?” He said, “In every living thing there is a reward.” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, Fath, no. 2363).

  144. On seeing this video, I don’t know how anyone can resist a dog:

    http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=norcsii#p/u/0/pkPNa4DBFHI

    and seriously….how can a creature which God chose to make be haram?

  145. Salaam mualakum Mohammed,
    Uh did you ever think about looking into the Koran first before you look at Hadith? In the Koran unlike the pig which is haraam never said anything bad about dogs in fact they were mentioned in a positive way, in Surah Al-Kahf(The Cave) the sleepers of the cave were blessed by God and their dog was with them in the cave either at the entrance of the from the inside or a space inside in the cave near the entrance, if he wasn’t inside he wouldn’t be counted but since he was counted that means he was inside the cave, if a hadith contradicts the Koran than the Hadith is either weak or fabricated. I hope I didn’t offend I try to argue the matter in the most respectable way.
    Salaam

  146. Assalamu Alaikum,

    For those who think Hadiths contradict with Quran.

    Firstly,
    It is essential that it be established in the mind and heart of every Muslim that the Sunnah – which is the words, deeds and approval that are attributed to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) – is one of the two parts of divine Revelation that were revealed to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). The other part of the Revelation (Wahy) is the Holy Qur’aan.

    Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “Nor does he speak of (his own) desire.

    4. It is only a Revelation revealed”

    [al-Najm 53:3-4]

    Jibreel used to bring the sunnah down to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) as he used to bring the Qur’aan down to him.

    The importance of the Sunnah is first of all that it explains the Book of Allaah and is a commentary on it, then it adds some rulings to those in the Book of Allaah.

    Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “And We have also sent down unto you (O Muhammad صلىالله عليه وسلم) the Dhikr [reminder and the advice (i.e. the Qur’aan)], that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought”

    [al-Nahl 16:44].

    The commentary of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) on the Qur’aan is of two types:

    1 – Explaining things that are mentioned in general terms in the Holy Qur’aan, such as the five daily prayers, their times, prostration, bowing and all other rulings.

    2 – Adding rulings to the rulings of the Qur’aan, such as the prohibition on being married to a woman and to her paternal or maternal aunt at the same time. End quote.

    Secondly:

    As the Sunnah is the second of the two parts of Revelation, it is inevitable that Allaah will protect it, so as to preserve the religion from distortion and additions or subtractions.

    Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “Verily, We, it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr and surely, We will guard it (from corruption)”

    [al-Hijr 15:9]

    “Say (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم): “I warn you only by the Revelation (from Allaah and not by the opinion of the religious scholars and others). But the deaf (who follow the religious scholars and others blindly) will not hear the call, (even) when they are warned [i.e. one should follow only the Qur’aan and the Sunnah (legal ways, orders, acts of worship, and the statements of Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم , as the Companions of the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم did)]”

    [al-Anbiya’ 21:45]

    Allaah tells us that the words of His Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) are all Wahy (revelation), and Wahy is undoubtedly Dhikr, and Dhikr is preserved according to the text of the Qur’aan. Thus it is correct to say that his words (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) are all preserved by Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted, and He has promised that none of them will be lost to us, because that which Allaah preserves can certainly not be lost at all; it has all been transmitted to us and Allaah has established proof and left us with no excuse. End quote.

    Thirdly:

    Once it is established that the Sunnah is part of the divine revelation, it is essential to note that there is only one difference between it and the Qur’aan, which is that the Qur’aan is the word of Allaah, may He be exalted, which was revealed verbatim to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), whereas the Sunnah may not be the words of Allaah, rather it is only His Revelation, so it need not necessarily come to us verbatim, but the meaning of it comes to us.

    Once we understand this difference, we see that the point in transmission of the Sunnah is to convey the meanings, not the exact same words that were uttered by the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Islam tells us that Allaah only preserves the words of the Qur’aan in full, and He preserves the general meanings of the Sunnah, and that which explains the Book of Allaah, not the exact words and phrases.

    However, the scholars of this ummah throughout the early centuries strove to preserve the sharee’ah and the Sunnah. They have transmitted to us the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) as he said them, and they distinguished between the reports that were right and wrong, true and false.

    Fourthly:

    Reasons for multiple reports:

    1- Multiple incidents

    Ibn Hazm (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in al-Ihkaam (1/134):

    The existence of different versions does not represent a fault in the hadeeth if the meaning is the same, because it is proven that when the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) uttered a hadeeth he would repeat it three times, so each person would narrate it according to what he heard. This difference in the reports does not mean that the hadeeth is weak, if the meaning is the same. End quote.

    2- Reporting the meaning

    This is the most common reason for there being multiple versions of a single hadeeth. What matters in transmission of a hadeeth is that the meaning be conveyed. As for the wording, it is not the matter of worship as is the case with the Qur’aan.

    For example, the hadeeth “Actions are but by intentions” is also narrated as “Action is by intention” and “Actions are but by intention” and “actions are by intention.” The reason for these multiple versions is that the meaning was narrated. The source of the hadeeth is one, namely Yahya ibn Sa’eed from Muhammad ibn Ibraaheem from ‘Alqamah from ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him). It may be noted that the meaning that is understood from these sentences is the same, so what does it matter if there are multiple reports?

    In order to be more certain that the narrator had transmitted the correct meaning of the hadeeth, the scholars would not accept a report of similar meaning unless it came from a scholar of the Arabic language, then they would compare his report with that of another trustworthy narrator; then they would be able to spot the mistake in narration if there was any mistake. There are many such examples but this is not the place to discuss them in detail.

    3 – Narrator’s shortening of the hadeeth

    i.e., the narrator memorized the hadeeth in its entirety, but he quoted only part of it in one place, and narrated it in full elsewhere.

    For example: Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) narrated the story of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forgetting two rak’ahs of Zuhr prayer. The entire story was narrated from Abu Hurayrah, and it is one story. This indicates that the difference in reports is due to some narrators shortening it. See Saheeh al-Bukhaari, 714, 715, 1229.

    4 – Mistakes

    One of the narrators may have made a mistake, so he narrated the hadeeth in a way that it was not narrated by others. It is possible to spot the mistake by comparing the reports with one another. This is what was done by the scholars in the books of Sunnah and takhreej.

    Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in al-Jawaab al-Saheeh (3/39):

    But Allaah has preserved for this ummah that which He revealed. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “Verily, We, it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr and surely, We will guard it (from corruption)”

    [al-Hijr 15:9]

    So there is no error in the interpretation of the Qur’aan or in the transmission of hadeeth or interpretation thereof. Allaah guaranteed that there would always be in this ummah those who would explain it and highlight evidence against the errors of those who err and the lies of those who lie. This ummah will not agree on misguidance, and there will remain among them a group who will adhere to the truth until the Hour begins. For they are the last of the nations and there is no Prophet after their Prophet and no Book after their Book. When the nations before them changed, Allaah sent a Prophet to show them the way with commands and prohibitions, but there will be no Prophet after Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and Allaah has guaranteed to preserve the revelation that He has sent down. End quote.

    The Sunnah, as we explained at the beginning, is revelation (wahy) from Allaah, which explains to the people that which was revealed to them in the Book of Allaah, may He be exalted, and it teaches them the rulings that they need to practise their religion. Even if the details or the basic principles are mentioned in the Book of Allaah, we say: in this sense the Sunnah is one of the attributes of Prophethood and one of the missions of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). The people still regard the Sunnah in this manner, whether it is mentioned in books or in oral reports which may differ in some wording or in different contexts. None of that gives cause to doubt its status or worry that it has not been preserved properly or to dispute its validity as evidence or to say that the people have no need of it, despite the many difference among people about theoretical and practical issues.

    The great scholar Shaykh ‘Abd al-Ghani ‘Abd al-Khaaliq (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

    We do not find in the books of al-Ghazaali or al-Aamidi or al-Bazdawi, or any of the scholars of usool who follow their method of writing, any suggestion or hint of any dispute with regard to this matter. They are the ones who examined all the books and madhhabs of the earlier scholars and studied the disputes, even the odd views, and they took great care to refute them.

    Then he quoted from the author and commentator of al-Musallam: The Qur’aan, Sunnah, scholarly consensus and analogy are he valid foundations of Islam, as is discussed in the field of ‘ilm al-kalaam. But the scholars of usool focused on the validity of scholarly consensus and analogy, because there were too many foolish people who tried to undermine their validity, such as the khawaarij and Raafidis (may Allaah humiliate t hem). As for the validity of the Qur’aan and Sunnah, the ummah is unanimously agreed on that, which is why there was no need to discuss their validity. End quote.

    See: Hujjiyyat al-Sunnah (248-249).

    And Allaah knows best.

  147. Salaam, I’m in no way rejecting Sunnah I just reject Hadiths that are fabricated or contradict the Koran, there are many true Hadith out there but they are many fabricated ones too, the reality is the Koran is from God and will be protected and is 100% accurate, the Koran is first, Hadith second, the Hadith was compiled 250 years after the Prophet(pbuh) died, the Hadith is no way divine, God guarteed protection for the Koran, the Hadith were developed much after if you think Hadith is divine then why do so many of them seem to contradict each other and some are just absurd? For example the Koran says to flog adulterers 100 times while Hadith says stone them to death thats a definite contradiction, the Koran says that if came from other than God than there would be many contradictions. The thing is Hadith was transmitted by man, the Koran transmitted by the Angel Gabriel, many Muslims make the mistake of making Hadith equal to the Koran but it is no way equal to the Koran. Authentic hadith is important but it’s not one of two parts, it is simply a supplement to the Koran, Divine revelation is only one part, the Koran, always look at the Koran first you can’t find the answer than you look at the Hadith not the other way around.

  148. Assalamu Alaikum Sami,

    I am not defending fabricated or weak hadiths in any way. I am defending only strong hadiths. And no saheeh(sound) hadith contradicts with Quran in any way. It is only people’s lack of knowledge that gives them this impression. And it is your misconception/misunderstanding that hadiths were written after 250 years of Prophet pbuh rather hadiths had been memorized and written from way back to Prophet pbuh. Al-Bukhari is one of the first Imams who put together only Saheeh(sound) hadiths in one book that is saheeh bukhari. He is one who did this great work after 250 years(he was born after 250 hijri) and this leads to a impression that hadiths were written only after 250 years. And, if you do not know the conditions of a hadith to be labelled as saheeh(sound) then its below:

    The phrase “saheeh hadeeth” may refer to one of two things:

    In general terms it includes those which are mutawaatir (narrated from so many by so many in each stage of transmission that it is inconceivable that they could all have agreed upon a lie), saheeh li dhaatihi (sound in and of itself), saheeh li ghayrihi (sound because of corroborating evidence) and hasan (good).

    Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar said:

    Most of the scholars of hadeeth do not differentiate between hasan and saheeh. End quote from al-Nukat (1/480),

    In specific terms it includes saheeh li dhaatihi (sound in and of itself) and saheeh li ghayrihi (sound because of corroborating evidence) only.

    Based on this definition, a saheeh hadeeth is one which is narrated by men of good character, who are known for their good memories and precision, with a continuous isnaad, and is not odd or faulty.

    If the precision is lacking and is not complete, then it is hasan li dhaatihi (hasan in and of itself). If it has a number of isnaads, then it is saheeh li ghayrihi (saheeh because of corroborating evidence).

    See Nakhbat al-Fikr by al-Haafiz Ibn Hajar (may Allaah have mercy on him).

    From this definition we may sum up the conditions of a saheeh hadeeth as follows:

    1 – Good character of all its narrators

    2 – Good memory and precision on the part of narrators with regard to what they are narrating.

    3 – Continuous isnaad from beginning to end, meaning that each narrator heard the hadeeth from the one before him.

    4 – The hadeeth is free from any oddness in its isnaad or text. What is meant by “odd” is anything in which the narrator narrates something that contradicts the narration of a sounder narrator.

    5 – The hadeeth is free from faults in its isnaad and text. A “fault” is a subtle problem that undermines the soundness of the hadeeth, which can be detected only by the well versed scholars of hadeeth.

    The definition of these conditions came about as the result of the later imams studying the words of the scholars of hadeeth and their applications. Hence you may find things in the words of the earlier scholars which point to these conditions.

    For example: Imam al-Shaafa’i (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in al-Risaalah (370-371):

    Evidence cannot be established on the basis of a report narrated by a few unless several factors are present, such as:

    The one who narrated it is trustworthy in his religious commitment, known to be truthful in his speech, understanding what he narrates, and knowledgeable about the wording and possible interpretation of the hadeeth; and he should be one of those who can narrate the hadeeth exactly as he heard it, not based on the meaning but with the exact wording, because if he if narrated on the basis of meaning and not with the exact wording, and he does not have knowledge of possible interpretations, he may inadvertently change what is halaal into haraam. But if he narrates it exactly, there is no fear that it may be changed.

    And he should know the hadeeth very well, if he is narrating from memory or he should take get care of his book if he is narrating from his book. If he checks what he knows with the scholars of hadeeth, he should be in agreement with them, and he should not be mudallis, i.e., one who narrates from one who met (a narrator) but did not hear it from him, or who narrates from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) something that contradicts the narration of authentic scholars from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). The same must be true for the narrators who came before him (in the isnaad), who narrated it to him, until the hadeeth ends with an uninterrupted chain all the way back to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) or to the one who narrated it from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). End quote.

    If all these conditions are met then a hadeeth is saheeh according to scholarly consensus, as was narrated by Ibn al-Salaah (may Allaah have mercy on him).

    See: al-Muqaddimah fi ‘Uloom il-Hadeeth (8) and al-Dhahabi in al-Mooqidah, (24).

    Some of the scholars did not list all these conditions:

    Imam Maalik and Abu Haneefah accepted mursal hadeeth, which is compromising the condition of having a continuous isnaad all the way to the source of the hadeeth.

    Some scholars accepted mudallas hadeeth even if the narrators did not state that they heard it.

    Al-Dhahabi said in al-Mooqidah (24): The scholars of hadeeth added a condition that the hadeeth should be free from any oddness or fault. This is subject to further discussion according to the principles of the fuqaha’, because many of what may be considered as faults are not accepted as such by them.

    See: Tadreeb al-Raawi (1/68-75, 155).

    What is meant is that the scholars’ differences with regard to classing ahaadeeth as saheeh are due to two reasons:

    1 – Their differences regarding some of the conditions of soundness. That is because those who compromised on some of these conditions were bound to class as saheeh reports that others did not class as saheeh.

    2 – Their differences in applying these conditions to a specific hadeeth. They may differ as to the good character of some narrators or whether the isnaad is uninterrupted and so on.

    It should be noted that these conditions are based on evidence from sharee’ah and evidence based on reason. These conditions are not just a ritualistic procedure, rather they are rational and serve a clear purpose. They are no less than the result of the efforts of thousands of scholars and the result of the tremendous efforts of the earlier scholars of hadeeth during the long years when the books of hadeeth were being compiled in the first three centuries and those who came after them.

    Anyone who wishes to know more may read the book by al-Khateeb al-Baghdaadi entitled al-Kifaayah fi ‘Ilm al-Riwaayah

    And Allaah knows best.

  149. Moreover, if you read the first text of this topic you will understand what is the ruling on dogs or any other animal in Islam. If Islam says to wash your hand, not to keep dogs inside house etc why you don’t do that instead of going against it.

  150. @Mohammed,

    ALL hadith that speak against dogs contradict The Qur’an, not to mention common sense and modern science.

    It is NOT haram to own dogs, even one madhab agrees with this.

    More to the point here, Hadith are NOT the word of God. They are the word of MEN. You might want to tailor your worship and completely change the way you live based on the word of men, but I sure dont.

    It is a bit of a stretch to elevate the words of men to the words of God. To do so almost puts people outside the bounds of monotheism.

    Nothing in The Qur’an says to keep a dog outside, so ISLAM doesnt say anything on the matter. It is men, hundreds of years after the death of the prophet who say so.

    I became a Muslim because I valued monotheism. The obsession, the WORSHIP of hadith and the words of man most certainly detracts from the Muslim community and the claim to monotheism.

    @Sami,

    Dont pay any mind to Mohammed and his like who would like to elevate man made and reported sayings to the very words of God himself.

    Let them worship man and his creations. Stick to what you know is best and stick to the worship of God. Let others worship man.

  151. Mohammed…much of what passes as islamic practice today is based on weak, fabricated and plain out mysogynistic hadith…and yet Muslims dutifully put those hadith into practice everyday of their lives believing they are being “good” Muslims…without even bothering to understand or research what they are practicing.

    There are in fact VERY FEW hadith that are considered sound and reliable….VERY FEW….from the hundreds of thousands gathered…barely a handful that can be considered sound and reliable and worthy of our attention and acceptance. All the rest are considered weak…unreliable…and quite frankly unbelievable.

    If God could bother Himself to mention the pig as something to be avoided then it goes to follow He could mention the dog as well…since the Quran is meant to be COMPLETE WITH NOTHING LEFT OUT.

    Having said that…if a Muslim wants to have a dog…there is little you can do to change their minds about it…you stated your case and your case has been stated…I imagine Sami will still get his dog because HE believes it is his right to have one and that God could careless about that particular addition to his life.

  152. reading this on and on gives me a headache. It’s a holy book people, sent by god to show us the path to live well. this koran Vs hadith debate is beyong pale. think why would god say dogs are ok in one place and dogs are not ok in the other and yet go ahead and create one of the most loyal adn helpful creatures on the planet.. huh..

    so what if one source says it’s bad, there’s another source saying it’s perfectly fine to keep dogs isn’t there? so there , go ahead and enjoy. I really doubt God sent these books down so we can sit and pick them apart..

  153. @Coolred,

    I agree, never mind the fact there are already fatawa out there by hadith believing scholars that make it VERY clear that dogs meant to help people with disabilities are okay.

    People with autism, like Sami or my son, benefit greatly by having service/therapy dogs. So even someone like Mohammed should be okay with service dogs for people with disabilities if it has been okayed by scholars.

  154. BTW,

    Interesting that someone like Mohamed will go out of his way to spend a lot of time telling a kid like Sami he cannot have a dog.

    This is EXACTLY the problem in the Muslim community, the majority of people like Mohamed will tell a disabled person what they CANNOT do, and spend loads of time and energy doing so………..but wont offer one second, any time, or any money trying to help out these same people with disabilities.

    It is VERY sad, but it tells you want overwhelming odds those of us in the Muslim community with special needs family members are facing.

  155. Mohamed, even though they are indeed hadiths that can be traced back to the Prophet(pbuh) but even in the Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim hadiths they are many errors and contradictions between each other and the Koran itself, they concentrated on who said it rather than what was said, as Reza Aslan said in his book No god but God the bulk of hadiths that were considered sound was not because their isnad was strong but because it reflected the majority of beliefs and practices of the community in the 9th century. Like I said they are indeed true hadiths that can be traced back to the Prophet(pbuh), the truth is that sunnah reflects more of the opinions of the 9th century ulema than 7th century Ummah, another author said that “It was not Muhammad(pbuh) himself who defined sunnah but rather a memory of him” I hope this helps, I’ve been Muslim for about five years now since I converted to Islam when I was 14(I’m 19 now) and I’ve been reading and learning and seeking knowledge ever since.

  156. I just want to make clear in a nutshell, the Koran is the 100% authentic word of God that was never corrupted, not a single verse was taken or added, the first Koran put together by Uthman in 651 CE is the same as the Korans that we have today, but the Hadiths is much different, rather than dictated by God the Hadiths were compiled by man and therefore prone to error and corruption, there is truth in it don’t get me wrong the Hadiths that are indeed true should be followed, but Hadiths should take a double test first it can’t contradict the Koran and second they can’t defy reason or logic, and so if a hadith past these tests than it should be true.

  157. Abu Sinan, you say your son has autism, what kind of Autism is it? Is it high functioning autism or asperger’s or something else? I mean I have a mild form of autism(Asperger’s sydrome), which is chracterized as difficulty socializing with people because they can’t read people’s body language and obsessive interests, which contribute to people’s social isolation. For me I’ve had many obsessions especially when I was younger, but after taking therapy I’ve been doing better, but still I find it difficult to make friends, but I well with people of similar interests, I’m often obsessed with reading and would spend hours doing so, I often seem to get along with animals quite well sometimes better than a lot of people I’ve seem to have an understanding of them, I feel like I have an emotional connection with them, I do have emotional problems, and I think if I get a dog I’ll be much happier, because I’m often lonely, the divorce of my parents emotionally devasted me it was the main cause why I searched for God and embraced Islam, Islam helped me a lot and without it I would’ve went into depression. When I visit the Arabian Horse Farm nearby and just spend time with the horses it serves as therapy for me I feel much more energized and happier after spending an hour or two with the horses, I like horses but I don’t have room for them, I began to like dogs especially German Shepherd and that’s when it popped in my head ‘I’m going to get a dog’ after doing research first I feel that this would really help me so yes in a sense a dog would serve as therapy for me.

  158. @Sami,

    We are still trying to figure that out. He is 4 1/2 and has one or two words. Social wise he is okay, but has his obsessions. He is friendly with us, but the lack of verbal interaction makes it hard.

    The lack of verbal interaction means he certainly doesnt have Aspergers, which is often accompanied by normal or even early language aquisition.

    The therapist whom he sees once a week doesnt think he is severe. She thinks he does have, however, severe speech dispraxia (sp?) which is keeping him from speaking and is delaying his development.

    We’d love to get him ABA, but that is very expensive. We are trying to raise money at my website for it but are having only limited luck. Seeing that insurance doesnt cover it where we live we are left with little choice.

    I have heard and read that animals are great with children with Autism, that’s why we got the dog. If we had money we’d do the horses, I love horses and rode for years before I had kids. Now there just isnt the money.

    We wish you all the best Sami. It seems your understanding of Islam is right where it should be, Masha’Allah.

  159. to all whom stating hadith must be accepted with if it’s inline with Quran and intelect. This is baseless claim since The Quran is also transmitted the same way with chains of narations of hadith. Please remember this ayaat : ” and whatever prophet’s order you comply to it and whatever prophet’s prohibit prohibit yourself from it. ” and if you deny a single hadith that is shahih this is a great sin since the hadith is the model of proof fool methodlogy build for thousnds of years. Since Quran need hadith more than hadith needs in Quran since in Quran there are order for prayer and we don’t find any how to in the quran but we found the how to in hadith. So please I respect the freedom of speech but if it’s not on your expertise on religious matter stay away from speaking it likewise it will trouble yourself.

  160. @Muhammad,

    You are amazing. The Qur’an, the literal word of God NEEDS the words of man?

    You have just proved my point 100%. People like you who worship hadith and equalize the words of God with those of man are probably the number one problem in the Muslim community today.

    When you say that God needs help from humans……………you are in essence committing shirk. God has NO equals and requires help from no one, not prophets, nor regular man.

    Your state is COMPLETELY outside the bounds of Islam. God requires help from no one, let alone humans.

    It is people like you that think they can “help” God that cause so much problem in the Muslim community.

  161. Mohammad Hadiths like for prayer is definetley accepted because its essential belief the difference the Koran was compiled 18 years after the Prophet(pbuh) died, the Koran was 100% accurate because everyone who knew the Prophet(pbuh) knew him personally were still alive, Uthman who put the Koran together knew him personally, but the Hadith was compiled 250(big difference in time) years after the Prophet(pbuh) died everyone who knew him personally are dead, Hadiths that are vital like those for prayer and essentials are kept but hadiths that contradict the Koran or are superstitious or even contradict each other, I mean having a dog shouldn’t be a big deal if the dog was so bad God should have mentioned it, he mentioned the pig being unclean, but the dog is mentioned in a positive way please read these articles that I’ll put, I have backup for my claim I’m not doing this on a whim but I did it because I have backup here’s an article:
    By: Dr. Khaled Abou El Fadl

    Islamic discourses on the nature, and function of dogs are representative of a range of tensions regarding the roles of history, mythology, rationality, and modernity in Islam. In fact, the debates surrounding the avowed impurity of dogs, and the lawfulness of possessing or living with these animals were one of the main issues symbolizing the challenging dynamic between the revealed religious law, and the state of creation or nature. In addition, certain aspects of these debates pertained to the power dynamics of patriarchy, and more generally, the construction of social attitudes towards marginal elements in society.

    In a fashion similar to European medieval folklore, black dogs, in particular, were viewed ominously in the Islamic tradition.[1] According to one tradition attributed to Muhammad, the Prophet of Islam, black dogs are evil, or even devils, in animal form.[2] Although this report did reflect a part of pre-Islamic Arab mythology, it had a limited impact upon Islamic law. The vast majority of Muslim jurists considered this particular tradition to be falsely attributed to the Prophet, and therefore, apocryphal. Nevertheless, much of the Islamic discourse focused on a Prophetic report instructing that if a dog, regardless of the color, licks a container, the container must be washed seven times, with the sprinkling of dust[3] in one of the washings. Different versions of the same report specify that the container be washed once, three, or five times, or omit the reference to the sprinkling of dust. The essential point conveyed in these reports is that dogs are impure animals, or, at least, that their saliva is a contaminant that voids a Muslim’s ritual purity. Hostility to dogs, not just as a source of physical but moral impurity, are further expressed in Prophetic reports claiming that angels, as God’s agents of mercy and absolution, will not enter a home that has a dog,[4] or that the company of dogs voids a portion of a Muslim’s good deeds.[5] Cultural biases against dogs as a source of moral danger reach an extreme point in reports that claim that Prophet commanded Muslims not trade or deal in dogs,[6] and even to slaughter all dogs, except for those used in herding, farming, or hunting.[7]

    These various anti-dogs reports expressed culturally engrained social anxieties about aspects of nature that were seen as threatening or unpredictable. In addition, discourses on dogs played a symbolic role in the attempts of pre-modern societies to explore the boundaries that differentiated human beings from animals. In that sense, the debates about dogs acted as a forum for negotiating not just the nature of dogs but also the nature of human beings. This is most apparent in traditions that create a symbolic nexus between marginalized elements in society, such as non-Muslims or women, and dogs. In some such traditions, it is claimed that the Prophet said that dogs, donkeys, women, and in some versions non-Muslims, if they pass in front of men in prayer, they will void or nullify that prayer.[8] Interestingly, early Muslim authorities, such as the Prophet’s wife Aisha, strongly protested this symbolic association between dogs and women because of its demeaning implications for women. As a result, most Muslim jurists ruled that this tradition is not authentic, and that the crossing of women in front of men does not negate their prayers.[9]

    Despite the attribution to the Prophet of a large number of traditions hostile to dogs, for a variety of reasons, many pre-modern Muslim scholars challenged this orientation. The Qur’an, the divine book of Islam, does not condemn dogs as impure or evil. In addition, a large number of early reports, probably reflecting historical practice, contradicted the dog-hostile traditions. For instance, several reports indicated that the Prophet’s young cousins, and some of the companions owned puppies.[10] Other reports indicated that the Prophet prayed while a dog played in the vicinity.[11] In addition, there is considerable historical evidence that dogs roamed freely in Medina and even entered the Prophet’s mosque.[12] A particularly interesting tradition attributed to the Prophet asserted that a prostitute, and in some versions, a sinning man, secured their places in Heaven by saving the life of a dog dying of thirst in the desert.[13]

    Most jurists rejected the traditions mandating the killing of dogs as fabrications because, they reasoned, such behavior would be wasteful of life. These jurists argued that there is a presumption prohibiting the destruction of nature, and mandating the honoring of all creation. Any part of creation or nature cannot be needlessly destroyed, and no life can be taken without compelling cause.[14] For the vast majority of jurists, since the consumption of dogs was strictly prohibited in Islam, there was no reason to slaughter dogs. Aside from the issue of killing dogs, Muslim jurists disagreed on the permissibility of owning dogs. A large number of jurists allowed the ownership of dogs for the purpose of serving human needs, such as herding, farming, hunting, or protection. They also prohibited the ownership of dogs for frivolous reasons, such as enjoying their appearance or out a desire to show off.[15] Some scholars rationalized this determination by arguing that dogs endanger the safety of neighbors and travelers.[16] For the majority of jurists, however, the pertinent issue was not whether it was lawful to own dogs, but the avowed impurity of dogs. The majority contended that the pivotal issue is whether the bodies and saliva of dogs are pure or not. If dogs are in fact impure then they cannot be owned unless there is a serious need for doing so.[17]

    As to the issue of purity, the main point of contention was as to whether there is a rational basis for the command to wash a container if touched or licked by a dog.[18] The majority of jurists held that there is no rational basis for this command, and that dogs, like pigs, must be considered impure simply as a matter of deference to the religious text. A sizeable number of jurists, however, disagreed with this position. Jurists, particularly from the Maliki school of thought, argued that everything found in nature is presumed to be pure unless proven otherwise, either through experience or text.[19] Ruling that the traditions mentioned above are not of sufficient reliability or authenticity so as to overcome the presumption of purity, they argued that dogs are pure animals. Accordingly, they maintained that dogs do not void a Muslim’s prayer or ritual purity.[20] Other jurists argued that the command mandating that a vessel be washed a number of times was intended as a precautionary health measure. These jurists argued that the Prophet’s tradition on this issue was intended to apply only to dogs at risk of being infected by the rabies virus. Hence, if a dog is not a possible carrier of rabies, it is presumed to be pure.[21] A small number of jurists carried this logic further in arguing that rural dogs are pure, while urban dogs are impure because urban dogs often consume human garbage.[22] Another group of jurists argued that the purity of dogs turn on their domesticity—domestic dogs are considered pure because human beings feed and clean them, while dogs that live in the wild or on the streets of a city could be carriers of disease, and therefore, they are considered impure.[23] It is clear from the evolution of these discourses that as nature became more susceptible to rational understanding, complex and potentially dangerous creatures, such as dogs, became less threatening for Muslim jurists.

    Aside from the legal discourses, dogs occupied an elusive position in Muslim culture. On the one hand, in Arabic literature dogs were often portrayed as a symbol of highly esteemed virtues such as self-sacrifice and loyalty. For example, Ibn Al-Marzuban wrote a fascinating treatise titled, The Book of the Superiority of Dogs Over Many of Those Who Wear Clothes, which contrasts the loyalty and faithfulness of dogs to the treachery and fickleness of human beings. Dogs were also widely used for protection, sheep herding, and hunting. On the other hand, dogs were often portrayed as an oppressive instrument in the hands of despotic and unjust rulers. Similar to the medieval European practice, in the pre-modern Middle East region, as an expression of contempt or deprecation, at times dogs were hung or buried with the corpses of dissidents or rebels.[24] Furthermore, in popular culture, unlike cats, dogs were considered filthy or impure animals that ought not share the living space of the pious or religiously observant. This cultural anti-dog prejudice survived into modern times, and as a result, the ownership of dogs continues to be socially frowned upon. In the contemporary Muslim world, dog ownership is common only among Bedouins, law enforcement, and the Westernized higher classes. As a matter of fact, it is rather striking that, to a very large extent, modern Muslims are unaware of the pre-modern juristic determinations that vindicated the purity of dogs. Nevertheless, this in itself is a measure of the ambiguous fortunes of the dynamics between Islamic law and nature in modernity. In the pre-modern age, Islamic law evolved in near proportion to the advances achieved in the human knowledge of nature. But as the institutions of Islamic law were deconstructed by European Colonialism, and with the rise of puritanical movements in contemporary Islam, Islamic jurisprudence has ceased to be a forum for creative thinking or dynamic interactions with the vastness of nature.

    [1] Barbara Allen Woods, The Devil in Dog Form: A Partial Type-Index of Devil Legends, vol. 11 of Folklore Studies (Berkeley: University of California Press, 1959), 33.

    [2] Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Musnad al-Imam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, ed. Samir al-Majzub (Beirut: Maktab al-Islami, 1993), 5:194, 197.

    [3] Abu Zakariyya Yahya al-Nawawi, Sharh Sahih Muslim, 3rd ed. (Beirut: Dar al-Ma‘rifa, 1996), 3-4:174-5 ; Ahmad Ibn Hajar al-‘Asqalani, Fath al-Bari bi Sharh Sahih al-Bukhari, ed. Muhibb al-Din al-Khatib, 3rd ed. (Cairo: al-Maktaba al-Salafiyya, 1407 AH), 1:331 ; Shams al-Din al-Sarakhsi, Kitab al-Mabsut (Beirut: Dar al-Kutub al-‘Ilmiyya, 1993), 1-2:48.

    [4] Muhammad ‘Abd al-Rahman al-Mubarakafuri, Tuhfat al-Ahwadhi bi Sharh Jami‘ al-Tirmidhi (Beirut: Dar al-Kutub al-‘Ilimiyya, n.d.), 8:72-73.

    [5] Malik Ibn Anas, al-Muwatta’ (Egypt: al-Babi al-Halabi, n.d.), 2:969.

    [6] Ahmad Ibn Shu‘ayb al-Nisa’i, Sunan al-Nisa’i (Beirut: Dar al-Kitab al-‘Arabi, n.d.), 7: 309 (The commentaries by al-Suyuti and al-Sanadi are in the margins). Ibn Hajar al-‘Asqalani, Fath al-Bari, 4:426.

    [7] Al-Nawawi, Sahih Muslim, 3-4:176, 9-10:479; Abu Bakr Muhammad Ibn al-‘Arabi, Ahkam al-Qur’an (Beirut: Dar al-Ma‘ruf, n.d.), 2:545-546; Muhammad Ibn ‘Ali al-Shawkani, Nayl al-Awtar Sharh Muntaqa al-Akhbar (Cairo: Dar al-Hadith, n.d.), 1-2:38; Abu ‘Abd Allah Muhammad al-Qurtubi, al-Jami‘ li Ahkam al-Qur’an (Beirut: Dar al-Kutub al-‘Ilmiyya, 1993), 3:44; Abu Bakr Ahmad al-Jassas, Ahkam al-Qur’an (Beirut: Dar al-Kutub al-‘Ilmiyya, n.d.), 2:393; Muhammad Ibn Jarir al-Tabari, Tafsir al-Tabari min Kitabihi Jami‘ al-Bayan ‘an Ta’wil ‘Ayat al-Qur’an, eds. Bashshar ‘Awad Ma‘ruf and Faris al-Harastani (Beirut: Mu’assasat al-Risala, 1994), 3:21, 523-524.

    [8] Al-Nawawi, Sahih Muslim, 3-4:450-1; Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Musnad, 5:194, 197, 202, 208; Abu Bakr Ibn al-‘Arabi, ‘Aridat al-Ahwadhi bi Sharh Sahih al-Tirmidhi (Beirut: Dar al-Kutub al-‘Ilmiyya, n.d.), 1:133.

    [9] See discussion in Khaled Abou El Fadl, Speaking in God’s Name: Islamic Law, Authority, and Women (Oxford: Oneworld Press, 2001), 226-8.

    [10] al-Mubarakafuri, Tuhfat al-Ahwadhi, 8:74; Al-Nawawi, Sahih Muslim, 9-10:478, 480, 483.

    [11] Al-Nawawi, Sahih Muslim, 3-4:465.

    [12] Ibn Hajar al-‘Asqalani, Fath al-Bari, 1:334.

    [13] Ibn Hajar al-‘Asqalani, Fath al-Bari, 1:333.

    [14] Ibn al-‘Arabi, ‘Aridat al-Ahwadhi, 1:133-4; al-Nawawi, Sahih al-Muslim, 3-4:177, 9-10:479, 13:78; al-Qurtubi, al-Jami‘, 3:44; al-Shawkani, Nayl al-Awtar, 1-2:38.

    [15] Al-Nawawi, Sahih Muslim, 3-4:176-7.

    [16] Al-Nawawi, Sahih Muslim, 9-10:482.

    [17] Muhammad Ibn Ahmad Ibn Rushd II, Bidayat al-Mujtahid wa Nihayat al-Muqtasid, (Beirut: al-Kutub al-‘Ilmiyya, 1997), 1:34-5; Taqi al-Din Ahmad Ibn Taymiyya, Majmu‘ Fatawa, ed. Muhammad ‘Abd al-Rahman Ibn Qasim, 2nd ed. (Riyadh: np, n.d.), 21:619-20.

    [18] Sahnun Ibn Sa‘id, al-Mudawwana al-Kubra (Egypt: Matba‘at al-Sa‘ada, n.d.), 1:5; Ibn Rushd II, Bidayat, 1:33-4; Abu Bakr Ibn Mas‘ud al-Kasani, Bada’i‘ al-Sana’i‘ fi Tartib al-Shara’i‘ (Beirut: Dar al-Kutub al-‘Ilimiyya, 1997), 1:375, 415.

    [19] Ahmad Ibn Muhammad al-Dardir, al-Sharh al-Saghir ‘ala Aqrab al-Masalik (the commentary of Ahmad al-Sawi is in the margins) (Cairo: Mustafa al-Babi, 1952), 1:18.

    [20] Khayr al-Din al-Munif, al-Fatawa al-Khayriyya li Naf‘ al-Bariyya (Cairo: Dar al-Ma‘rifa, n.d.), 2:15; Abu Muhammad ‘Abd Allah Ibn Ahmad Ibn Muúammad Ibn Qudama, al-Mughni (Beirut: Dar Ihya’ al-Turath al-‘Arabi, n.d.), 1:46; ‘Ali Ibn Ahmad Ibn Hazm, Al-Muhalla bi al-Athar (Beirut: Dar al-Kutub al-‘Ilmiyya, n.d.), 1:120-2; Shihab al-Din Ibn Idris al-Qarafi, al-Dhakhira (Beirut: Dar al-Gharb al-Islami, 1994), 1:181-2; Zayn al-Din Ibn Muhammad Ibn Nujaym, al-Bahr al-Ra’iq Sharh Kanz al-Daqa’iq (Beirut: Dar al-Kutub al-‘Ilmiyya, 1997), 1:225.

    [21] Abu Walid Muhammad Ibn Ahmad Ibn Rushd I, al-Muqaddimat al-Mumahhidat, ed. Muhammad Hajji (Beirut: Dar al-Gharb al-Islami, 1988), 1:90-2.

    [22] Ibn al-‘Arabi, ‘Aridat, 1-2:138; Ibn Rushd II, Bidayat, 1:36.

    [23] Ibn Rushd I, al-Muqaddimat, 1:87-9; Ibn Rushd II, Bidayat, 1:35; Ibn al-‘Arabi, ‘Aridat, 1-2:134-7.

    [24] Khaled Abou El Fadl, Rebellion and Violence in Islamic Law (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2001), 53-7.

  162. وَمَا ءَآتَاكُمُ الرَّسُولُ فَخُذُوهُ وَمَا نَهَاكُمْ عَنْهُ فَانْتَهُو
    الحشر:7
    مَنْ يُطِعِ الرَّسُولَ فَقَدْ أَطَاعَ اللَّهَ وَمَنْ تَوَلَّى فَمَا أَرْسَلْنَاكَ عَلَيْهِمْ حَفِيظًا.
    ]النساء80
    I know killing a dog without any reason is haraam. But it’s not the point. I know Al A’masy (Sulaiman Bin Mihran ) a prominent Muhadith considered as tsiqaat is keeping a dog to guard his house. I assume those 2 ayaat where enough to enclose my opinion. To Abu Sinaan plaase don’t make baseless and unnecessary accusation.
    @carol please remove the flag of Saudi beside the dog, since it’s not just flag it’ s word of Allah beside it. So it don’t makes people think negatively on you.
    Assalamulaikum for all.

  163. @Muhammad,

    I have made no accusations, you have said it plainly yourself. You sad GOD needs the help of MAN. The statement is clearly outside the bounds of Islam as you are putting God at the same level of man.

    @Carol,

    Dont worry about a picture of a dog being near any words. A dog is must as much God’s creation as a horse or a human.

  164. I guess by the standards of some Muslim today, it means that we are going to hell, Abu Sinan!!! Oh well, may God have mercy on our soul…………..LOL!

    Funny, the other day, I was talking to a lady who is Masha’Allah, pretty religious and practicing the deen to the letter! NO way is she an extremist by any means! When I told her about dogs and how some think they are “Haram”, she almost kinda like in AWE said “WHAT? who told you they were prohibited??”

    Here’s a woman who is a Saudi, grew up in Saudi, yet somehow, learned the religion appropriately, Alhamdulillah………What’s funny is that she said the same thing we have been saying for quite a looooooooong time. Most people, Muslims, in general, have no CRITICAL THINKING, which is one of the biggest reasons why culture has MORE power over religion. Everybody goes with the flow. No one stops for a minute and says “hey, this is not right and this needs much more investigating; why are people NOT following Islam properly?!”

    But again, these are the same people who probably LOVE Osama. The dude who said that anyone living abroad, and especially in the USA, is committing a HUGE sin!! LOLOLO BEYOND LAUGHABLE!!!!

  165. OH btw, I have TWO uncles in Saudi who have dogs. And my question to those who say dogs are prohibited in Isam?? What happens to a Muslim blind person??? Does he/she live in contempt at home and basically have no choice but to accept what ever happens to them what so ever???

    Service dogs helps the blind gain self confidence and independence and guess what?? God CREATED these creatures for one of the many types of services they offer to mankind. Saying they are “HARAM” is saying God made a mistake (Istagfiru Allah)!!!

  166. @Manal,

    Indeed, I find it amazing how God created an animal that is so intelligent and can be trained so well that it can actually help humans with disabilities.

    It isnt in The Qur’an, it doesnt make sense and I dont think God needs any “help” from humans, so there is nothing wrong with dogs.

  167. we know of so many incidences of dogs saving lives and performing such historic acts. I am impressed by the bloodhounds which sniff out criminals and narcotics and also have german shephards have been trained for similar purposes. And animals when taken care of and loved are so dedicated and love their “person.” God created a magnificent creature in the dog and a creature that I have no doubt does have a soul.

  168. I agree American Bedu 100%, I do believe animals have a soul because its the life force, animals have feelings and a mind of their own, animals are also part of God’s family and should be treated kindly and God is best to those who are best to his family whether they are human or animal they both have a soul we all shall return to our Lord in the end.

  169. Salaam,
    You guys got to see this video on how much the Saudis love their Saluki Dogs.

  170. Assalaam Alaikum,

    It is not whether Saudis or Americans or any other countrymen love dog or any other animal, it is how much you want to follow Islam within it’s limits. Quran and Sunnah(only authentic Hadiths) is what we have to follow. And there is no contradictions between Quran and authentic hadiths, Hadiths are commentary of Quran. People who do not follow authentic hadiths, they cannot follow right path. How one can offer prayer, do ablution etc where Quran has not given full explanation and there are many things to point out rather we find it in authentic hadiths. People are trying to understand Quran in their own ways, which is not the right thing. We have to understand Quran like how Prophet pbuh taught his companions and how his companions understood it directly from him. I can give many things here but I don’t think most people here can even take it positive as I assume they all have engraved in their minds that authentic hadiths contradict with Quran so they don’t follow. If anyone really want to follow true Islam then he should have thirst for it and strive to get the right knowledge beside praying to Allah for it. May Allah enlighten all those, who are in such impression, to the right path.

  171. I see how much they love this one kind of dog, but it doesn’t help anyone else out who can’t afford a Saluki or find a Saluki in their area. I LOVE my bull terrier and she is just as clean and helpful as they are

  172. @Mohammed,

    I guess you just cannot get it. There is a contradiction between the hadith which are against dogs and The Qur’an. The Qur’an clearly states that it is okay to eat food that has been in the mouth of a dog. If a dog is as unclean as these hadith state, why would GOD say that it is okay to eat something that has been in one’s mouth?

    The Qur’an clearly states, the word of God, that an Angel of God observed dogs and man sleeping and living together in a cave, yet you’d still have us believe that dogs are haram and that even an angel wouldn’t enter a place where a dog is when even The Qur’an clearly states that an angel DID enter the cave to observe the people and the dog.

    Thus it is clear to anyone free from a cultural hatred of dogs that there is no prohibition in Islam against dogs.

    You Mohammed, and others like you, are guilty of mistaking your culture for Islam.

    I give you advise, brother in Islam, to abandon your ways of following culture and NOT Islam. Islam is your religion, not a outdated, backwards culture. Abandon your cultural traits, such as hating God’s creatures, and get closer to Islam.

  173. @Abu Sinan,

    Assalamu Alaikum,

    I do not know where in Quran is “it is okay to eat food that has been in the mouth of a dog”. And, did I ever mention I hate dogs? Did I mention I hate God’s creatures? And to me, your calculations to stand any hadith in contradiction to Quran is simply if it is not mentioned in Quran then that hadith is contradicting. I suggest you to first get some knowledge, know the history well, know about hadiths, know about the prophet buh, his companions, their lifes, about the scholars, about how the companions,scholars has saved the Sunnah(authentic hadiths).

    Without Hadith you can never completely interpret the meaning of the Quran. No logic or science is required to interpret if there is authentic hadith present.

    Buddy, We say angels do not enter a HOUSE where there is dog present, we do not mention just anywhere as it is permissible to have dogs outside house for valid reasons.

    We do not say not to touch a dog, we say if you have got dog’s saliva on you then wash it more number of times than you usually wash.

    I am sorry but I feel you have written all your texts against me in a sense of hatred. I am sorry if I am wrong.

    You have slandered me and as well whom are like me, well, slandering is indeed prohibited in Quran.

    That is all my brother in Islam! May God enlighten your erroneous path and guide you to the straight path.

  174. Salam Mohammed I agree we follow Authentic Hadith, Hadith that helps us to pray and to help us be better people is necessary, and so hadith is necessary, I’m in no way rejecting Sunnah, but they many errors in hadiths including those that contradict each other and those that contradict the Koran, for example punishment for adulterers, Koran says 100 lashes, hadith says stoning to death contradiction, I’m NOT saying that we reject sunnah no that would be Kufr, I’m just saying that we need to re-evalute the Hadith, In Turkey they are already doing this, The Koran is pure, but the Hadith should re-evaluated, because the way the scholars evaluated it they looked at who said it by chain rather than what was said.If evaluation of Hadith gets based on text than the would eliminate the Hadiths that are contradictory to the Koran and also hadiths that are superstitious like the hadith that say black dogs are evil, that hadith is more than likely not true because its superstition, we haven’t updated our interpretation since the 10th century when ‘the gates of ijtihad are closed’ what we need to do is open it up again because as Muhammad Iqbal said no one has the authority to close those gates, people can think for themselves as long as it doesn’t contradict the Koran and they have backup for their claim, example would be that alcohol is ALWAYS going to be HARAM because the Koran says so, but if its not in there than its open to discussion, this dog issue should not be a big deal, I don’t think God will care that I have I dog.

  175. Mohammed…just a small request. Could you possibly list here for all of us unenlightened souls the hadith which explain EXACTLY how to pray…from start to finish.

    And for this request I would actually like just ONE hadith that explains the whole process from start to finish…but you can list what you feel is appropriate and we shall see the end result.

    Thank you.

  176. Sami – that video is so beautiful and touching. Can you tell me how I can get in touch wtih the gentleman who is interviewed?

    A friend of mine was working on a remote site and came upon a saluki mother and her pups. Masha’allah she has managed to adopt several and take them back to her home country and found homes for all the rest. She even was able to have a vet come to the site to inspect them and give them shots. her compassion and love of God’s creatures really touched my heart.

  177. @Muhammed,

    See, I think part of your problem is that you think you know more about Islam than you really do. You are unaware that The Qur’an specifically says you can eat food that has been in a dog’s mouth?

    Are you a “born” Muslim or a convert? This is not a mistake that anyone who knows their Qur’an or who is knowledgeable about Islam would make. Have you ever even read The Qur’an or do you just ignore the stuff that you dont agree with?

    Have you never read Surah 5, The Feast (Al-Mã´edah)?

    It says:

    [5:4] They consult you concerning what is lawful for them; say, “Lawful for you are all good things, including what trained dogs and falcons catch for you.” You train them according to GOD’s teachings. You may eat what they catch for you, and mention GOD’s name thereupon. You shall observe GOD. GOD is most efficient in reckoning.

    It is VERY clear that God’s own words say that you can eat food that has been in a dog’s mouth, unless you can explain to us another way that dogs catch food besides with their mouths? If a dog is so dirty, so filthy that one cannot have one for a pet or allow it in your house, why would GOD say that you can eat food that has been in it’s mouth?

    That makes NO since. The hadith always cited against dogs fly DIRECTLY AGAINST the literal words of God. So something in wrong………….it is either The Qur’an (God) or the hadith about dogs (man).

    I suggest you refrain from offering religious advise when you have so little knowledge of God’s own words. Not surprising you can quote us a thousand hadiths, but not know one of the sections of God’s own words in The Qur’an which invalidate them all cocerning dogs.

    This is where, if you had any pride, you’d slink away and try to learn your religion better instead of using your ignorance to try and attack a young man who is trying to help himself using the tools God gave him.

    Sami is twice the scholar on Islam that you’ll ever be.

  178. Salaam mualakum guys, American Bedu I’m sorry I have no idea who this guy is, I just happen to find this video on youtube so I upload it, I liked it so I showed to you guys. Anyway could I exchange E-mails with you guys? I would very much love to exchange E-mails with other Muslim dog lovers, I also have a facebook if you guys like, anyway here’s my E-mail:
    samibakir1990@yahoo.com
    American Bedu, Coolred, Abu Sinan,Manal,Crazii Rabbit, radha, and Fifi thanks for your support.
    Before I stumbled on this blog, I felt very alone as a Muslim who wanted a dog, besides my mother’s side of the family who are okay with dogs, my dad’s side of the family was against it, so when I found out there was other Muslim dog lovers out there I feel a little better to know that they others out there and so I’m really glad to meet you guys, I hope we keep in touch.

  179. I love all of God’s creatures I believe every creature has a purpose, even a mosquito. Even pigs have a purpose, maybe we shouldn’t eat them, but God never said not to use them. God is very smart and we should use and love what he gave us as if someone very dear to us gave us a valuable gift. We should treasure what we have and thank God every day for the smallest ant to the largest tree. I wish I could convince my husband of this, but he is so set on his cultural background it may never happen.

  180. @Sami,

    Of course we can correspond. My email is admin@americanbedu.com

    Crazii Rabbit – give it time! When I first arrived in Saudi with all my cats I faced an uphill battle from those who felt my cats were giving everyone illnesses to even worse..but then my own little kitties worked their way into the family hearts and my dear MIL became one of the most protective about my kitties and was so sweet sneaking them treats at the table! Animals do find their way of winning over hearts!

  181. Salam Sami!

    You bet I’ll add you to my Facebook. You can see pictures of my little guys and our puppy, who turns 5 months old the end of this month.

  182. Salaam Abu Sinan,
    I found your invite thanks, looking forward to many conversations,may God bless you and your family.
    Salaam,American Bedu,
    Thanks for your E-mail looking forward to conversations with you too, and may God bless you too.
    Salaam everyone

  183. Okay so I brought the concept of angels not having free will to my husband because I thought it was a very good argument, but he said that God always makes a scenario when he makes a law. So he made the scenario where Gabriel couldn’t enter the house because that would be violating God’s law as well as not fulfilling God’s commandment

  184. @Crazii,

    The problem is there is no “God’s Law” in regards to dogs. The Qur’an doesnt say ANYTHING negative about dogs. The only depictions of dogs in The Qur’an are completely positive.

    Why would God have positive words about dogs in The Qur’an, yet hadith be so negative about dogs? It is a contradiction.

    The Qur’an makes it clear one is allowed to eat food that has been in a dog’s mouth. If dogs are as bad as hadith make them out, to the point where an angel wont enter a place where a dog is, why would God allow people to eat food that has been in a dog’s mouth?

    It defies logic, hence either The Qur’an or the hadith are wrong.

    The problem is many choose to follow the words of man and not the words of God.

    More to the point the religion, as practiced in many parts of the world, has been “tailored” to fit the local culture. That is actually why Islam, as practiced, is so different around the globe. If there was only one way to follow it and everyone stuck to the literal words of God, then Islam would look pretty the same around the globe.

    The hadith on dogs, since they contradict The Qur’an are wrong. They were fabricated to suit the person who made them up and to conform to local culture.

    The issue in the Islamic world today with dogs is as much about fear of dogs as it is about religion.

    There is nothing in Islam that has anything against dogs, it is a cultural innovation added to Islam that has no basis in reality.

    It is a “bid’ah” (innovation in Arabic) and as such is actually haram (forbidden). Man cannot make haram what God has made halal (allowed). Those who do so face a serious punishment from God.

  185. well he says there is nothing wrong with dogs, but the problem is maybe dogs bark at angels or something….he says he doesn’t know but he doesn’t want to take a chance of missing an angel visiting the house especially with the baby here. And his mom and dad say that it is illegal to pray with the same clothes on if the dog touches them. And so they just avoid them all together just in case the time for prayer comes around and they can’t wash thoroughly, but on the reverse side, his mom will clean and cook all day long and get dirty as hell, but won’t change her clothes to pray….I make this argument to them and they say that dog is worse than any of that. Sounds kinda fishy to me and it makes me so mad because they contradict themselves about cleanliness. How can you work hard all day long and be cleaner than if a dog touches you for two seconds?

  186. @Crazii Rabbit,

    I find it odd that someone would not do something for reasons that they are unclear of. If one follows every hadith out there you’ll find yourself living a rather insane life.

    There is a hadith that says that the prophet drank animal urine to ensure health. Is everyone rushing to do that one? Wonder why not……..

    It is NOT “illegal” to pray with clothes that a dog touches. Even if you buy into the hadiths (which contradict The Qur’an) you only have to clear yourself if dog’s saliva gets on it.

    Funny that, we know for a FACT that God says you can eat food that has been in a dog’s mouth, yet you need to change or wash your clothes if a drop of saliva gets on it?

    Again……..doesnt make sense.

    As to a dog being “worse than any of that” ask them why, if a dog was so dirty, God would expressly say that eating food that came from it’s mouth was okay. If a dog is so dirty, why would God allow us to eat something from it’s mouth?

    Nevermind the fact that science tends to agree with The Qur’an and AGAINST the hadith. There have been scientific studies that show this. The study below finds that dogs have about the same amount of bacteria in their mouths, but they are less likely to infect a human than saliva from another human.

    So The Qur’an is correct and the hadith are clearly wrong. Human saliva is actually MORE dangerous to humans than canine saliva.

    It makes no sense that is why you will NOT get a sensible response from people trying to defend this. Most importantly, from a Muslim standpoint, there is NOTHING that they can point to that comes directly from God that supports them. If dogs were so dirty certainly God would have made it clear when he gave PERMISSION to eat food that was in their mouths.

    http://www.usc.edu/CSSF/History/2005/Projects/J1004.pdf

  187. The number of Muslims that will follow something “Islamic” but when pressed as to why they follow will not be able to answer clearly or with conviction is astounding.

    Sheep anyone?

  188. Salaam, from what I’ve read among the traditional ulema, not all them agree that the dog is unclean, Imam Malik(711-795) of the Maliki school which predominates in North and West Africa, Imam Malik considered the dog pure both the fur and saliva and he said wudu is not necessary if a dog licks you. What many Muslims do not understand is that many of the Islamic laws today are based on 10th century interpretation and it was based on the cultural and traditional norms of the 10th century ulema and not 7th century Medina. At the time there was no vaccinations for rabies or any of these dangerous diseases dogs can get, and so people are trying to survive in a harsh environment and so they cannot afford to have a pet of any kind any animal they had they used them to the max of their abilities and many dogs at the time being in a hot environment were carrying disease and ate rubbish except for the ones that people kept for herding and the like, but nowadays we have the medicine and cleanliness to keep ourselves and the dog clean, what the traditionalists don’t get is that TIMES HAVE CHANGED they have to update their interpretation for the 21st century, you cannot apply a 10th century interpretation for a 21st century context. People especially here are living comfortable lives and can afford to have a dog for a pet, and so I really don’t know the traditional people want with us, why should they care if we have dogs? I mean it doesn’t affect them, if they don’t like dogs that’s fine, its just that why they want everyone to live up to THEIR interpretation of Islam?

  189. BTW I also read a hadith on a Pakistani website that Imam Hasan and Imam Hussein had a puppy when they were young.I just thought I pointed that out.

  190. My husband makes the argument that dogs run wild today and spread disease, yeah, maybe in a third world country! This is America (where we live)! Dogs in the city don’t just run wild and spread disease, rats do. I could understand if he didn’t want me to have a pet rat….He even said it was the dog who spread the black plague…I was like do your research! It was the rat!! He was like, all dogs have rabies…Bahahahahaha!!!! Palease!!! Oh he irritates me! But I love him. He just doesn’t understand how much animals, especially dogs, mean to me.

  191. to a lot of Saudis raised in Saudi and not exposed to pets, it would be natural for them to view dogs and cats as unclean. Why do I say that? Because when you are in Saudi you see so many thousands and I do mean thousands of stray cats which do resemble rats more than the loveable charming cat. And the stray dogs because of the stigma of rabies and other disease (which in a lot of cases is true with the strays) they are also viewed as haram and so unclean. Thankfully there are vets like Dr. Majed, a Saudi, who is helping to educate and inform on pets and the love and joy they bring to lives. I also encourage anyone interested to do a search within my blog for my own personal experiences with Saudi street cats. I continue to love cats but learned the hard way on no matter how friendly a street cat may be or clean it may appear it can still carry so much disease. A simple bite from one had me in the hospital for 6 days! But I will still feed them and shelter them as I can…I just love cats too much!

  192. @Carol,

    I understand where you are coming from. The issue goes back to religion. They are allowed to run wild because they are “haram”. They have created the problem for themselves.

    Interesting that they can use hadith to justify the poor treatment of one of God’s creations, yet forget the hadith where the Prophet said God granted heaven to a prostitute who gave kind treatment to a dog.

    Hadith are like you, you can pick and choose which ones you follow, which ones you dont, and justify almost anything.

  193. So true Abu Sinan, hadith must be re-evaluated based on text rather than chain, they are a variety of hadith out there and people can justify what they do by using any hadith. People do pick and choose. Bottom line the Prophet(pbuh) was a mercy to ALL CREATURES as said in the Koran, so the idea that the Prophet(pbuh) would hate a certain animal would sound ridiculous to me they are many hadith that showed kindness toward dogs, including the Prophet’s cousins Hasan and Hussein having a dog and another where a dog who was begging the Prophet for food as the Prophet was eating, so he took some of his food and gave it to the dog, for me that seems more like the Prophet’s character, I highly doubt that he would condemn an animal that God had no problem with, it contradicts his character and how kind and gentle that great man was.

  194. Not to mention the hadith where a dog was urinating in the mosque while salat was being performed. The sahaba wanted to kill the dog (as if the dog knew where it was relieving itself) but the Prophet nixed that idea. He merely told them to sprinkle water on the spot.

    Doesnt sound like someone that abhored the idea of dogs around Muslims.

  195. So gotta quick question for yall, I had to fight tooth and nail to get my husband to allow me to spay our animals. He finally relented because it was against city ordinance to have a cat that wasn’t spayed and you had to have a license for a dog that wasn’t spayed. So what do yall think? My argument is that if you don’t spay your animal, it’s natural instinct is to go have babies, right? I mean animals have no laws on fornication or adultery because it is just natural for them. But therein lies the problem, too many kittens are born, people don’t have the means to take care of them, they get disease because they run wild, and spread them and you have a problem. But if everyone would spay and neuter, there would only be a controllable amount of animals, am I not correct? My husband says, well, why don’t they do that for humans then? (trying to get me to think it’s a cruel idea to keep them from having babies) and my retort is, animals don’t have free will, or free thought. Humans can control their sexual desires, and must! And not only that, but we are smart enough to have means to not breed uncontrollably. Animals aren’t stupid, they act on instinct, but they can’t perceive the future for their children. They don’t think about the thought that if they have sex with that other dog or cat or whatever, their babies may grow up without food and shelter because no one can afford to take care of them. Then my husband says, God will take care of them, well he is in a way, he’s helping to control population by giving them diseases and stuff. SOMEONE has to control the population, and WE are responsible for the Earth. So instead of allowing the animals to suffer by letting them overpopulate, why not stop the problem before there is one?

  196. Umm Crazii Rabbit this is were I’am going to disagree with you, I’am against Neutering/Spaying/Gelding animals but I think Vasectomy/Tubal Ligation is a much more humane thing to do and it serves the same purpose, they’ll still have their urges but even if it does happen no one will get pregnant, but still it’s all about the responsibility of the owner,when I get my dog when he gets older I’ll probably pay for a vasectomy but I will not mutilate him! I think neutering is just a nice way of saying genital mutilation, vasectomy is a little more expensive but it serves the same purpose of controlling the population, I’m also against docking(cutting the ears and tails of dogs like Dobermans) there was a Hadith that I read that says that nothing should be cut off an animal while he/she(I don’t like to call an animal ‘it’) is still alive. I just think it’s cruelty, if people being castrated is a horrible thing than I think we shouldn’t do it to animals neither. I think Vasectomy and Tubal Ligation are much more humane alternatives. When you get a animal you have to be prepared to care for every aspect of the animal just because someone doesn’t like a certain thing about an animal doesn’t mean they should carve them up for their convenience.

  197. Soooo…according to your summary Sami…we shouldnt “carve” up our pets or animals as thats not humane…but as Muslims we should carve up our sons penis when babies..and for some…carve up our daughters labia so they dont enjoy sex or go looking for it.

    Children yes…animals no…hmmmm.

  198. Salaam to All,

    @coolred38,

    Dear, the purpose of circumcision is different than spaying animals. And, we do not do it to our children for our convenience while we do it to our pet for our convenience. So, there serves a different purpose and intention.

    @Sami

    I agree with you.

  199. Actually I’m totally against female genital mutilation, it’s haraam its a pre-Islamic practice and its very cruel to the poor girl most scholars agree its haram because harmful to a female’s body, no where in the Koran does it say to carve up your daughter, now male circumcision is entirely different, I mean there’s a big difference between castration and circumcision! The human equilvalent is a eunuch, now making someone a eunuch by castrating him would be condemned by everyone, I have no problem giving my dog a vasectomy in which the tubes are tied and so it helps prevent overpopulation, neutering is total removal of the testicles, its the same as making a guy a eunuch, I see it as cruelty and I wouldn’t castrate myself or others so why should I do it to my dog?

  200. @Sami,

    Please read below article.

    Female circumcision has not been prescribed for no reason, rather there is wisdom behind it and it brings many benefits.

    Mentioning some of these benefits, Dr. Haamid al-Ghawaabi says:

    The secretions of the labia minora accumulate in uncircumcised women and turn rancid, so they develop an unpleasant odour which may lead to infections of the vagina or urethra. I have seen many cases of sickness caused by the lack of circumcision.

    Circumcision reduces excessive sensitivity of the clitoris which may cause it to increase in size to 3 centimeters when aroused, which is very annoying to the husband, especially at the time of intercourse.

    Another benefit of circumcision is that it prevents stimulation of the clitoris which makes it grow large in such a manner that it causes pain.

    Circumcision prevents spasms of the clitoris which are a kind of inflammation.

    Circumcision reduces excessive sexual desire.

    Then Dr al-Ghawaabi refutes those who claim that female circumcision leads to frigidity by noting:

    Frigidity has many causes, and this claim is not based on any sound statistics comparing circumcised women with uncircumcised women, except in the case of Pharaonic circumcision which is where the clitoris is excised completely. This does in fact lead to frigidity but it is contrary to the kind of circumcision enjoined by the Prophet of mercy (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) when he said: “Do not destroy” i.e., do not uproot or excise. This alone is evidence that speaks for itself, because medicine at that time knew very little about this sensitive organ (the clitoris) and its nerves.

    From Liwa’ al-Islam magazine, issue 8 and 10; article entitled Khitaan al-Banaat (circumcision of girls).

    The female gynaecologist Sitt al-Banaat Khaalid says in an article entitled Khitaan al-Banaat Ru’yah Sihhiyyah (Female circumcision from a health point of view):

    For us in the Muslim world female circumcision is, above all else, obedience to Islam, which means acting in accordance with the fitrah and following the Sunnah which encourages it. We all know the dimensions of Islam, and that everything in it must be good in all aspects, including health aspects. If the benefits are not apparent now, they will become known in the future, as has happened with regard to male circumcision – the world now knows its benefits and it has become widespread among all nations despite the opposition of some groups.

    Then she mentioned some of the health benefits of female circumcision and said:

    It takes away excessive libido from women

    It prevents unpleasant odours which result from foul secretions beneath the prepuce.

    It reduces the incidence of urinary tract infections

    It reduces the incidence of infections of the reproductive system.

    In the book on Traditions that affect the health of women and children, which was published by the World Health Organization in 1979 it says:

    With regard to the type of female circumcision which involves removal of the prepuce of the clitoris, which is similar to male circumcision, no harmful health effects have been noted.

  201. There was a link on here from another article by American Bedu (to do with the changing of the Kiswa on the Ka’abah) where a commentor put up a link to expalin the history behind it. As I scrolled down that link, there was another article about the treatment of animals that I thought linked to this debate (but I thought against putting the link on here for some odd reason).

    But my point is, the article stressed the duty upon owners of animals to treat their pets kindly and being responsable for the pets welfare (according to what is correct Islamically) and that includes doing what is leagally correct to control breeding, food, shelter,affection and spreading of diseases.
    As pet owners, we are accountable for the treatment of that animal and the pet will testify on the day of judgement as to the treatment it recieved from us. So whether we choose to neuter/ spay etc, as long as its done in a manner that causes the least amont of suffering for the animal as well as not burdening our selves with financial responsabilities that we cannot handle (in the case of someone who chooses to have many pets or allows their pet to breed), we should leave the rest to Allah and His infinate Wisdom.

    I was never raised with pets but chose to adopt unwanted cats (one at a time) but never had them treated. The last two ran away (males) when they were old enough to be breeding and I still feel guilty for losing them (I took the second one in after my SIL moved to saudi) and this last one (female), I chose to have her spayed.

    Question though, is it rare to get cats or dogs with different colored eyes? Mine has one blue eye and the other is green. I heard that it means that she could be deaf in one ear but its not been confirmed.
    Thanks

  202. @Coolred,

    No matter what you think of circumcision, studies have recently shown it reduces the rates of cancer in men and helps against contracting HIV. Aside from the fact that for us men, it is MUCH easier to keep clean.

  203. Actually the studies regarding circumcition and HIv are inconclusive..
    But i’d recomend going for it just because there’s no harm done and there could be the benefit of cleanliness.

  204. Animals cannot control their sexual urges, like humans, and humans have free will to decide whether or not they want to be castrated, a dog does not so in no way can we compare the treatment of a dog to a human. We have responsibility for what that dog does to other animals. By “fixing” your animals, you reduce the hormone levels and thereby reduced the risk of aggressiveness. God never told us that by doing what is necessary to control population and to keep everyone else safe is wrong. Obviously muslims in third world countries think it’s okay by God to randomly shoot animals that roam the streets, so don’t you think that God would much rather see the population controlled by spaying/neutering than killing the excess? And the way you do it is everyone’s personal decision. Who said that tubal ligation and castration have to be SO different? You are still surgically changing the way God created the animal, am I not correct?

  205. Ok, a bit late in the discussion, and most of what I have to say has allready been said,
    – dogs are not next to the pig in the quran as a forbidden animal (to eat)
    -a dog is sleeping with the people in the cave and the angels had no problems with that, nor with entering the cave. The dog was actually counted as a full member of the group
    -one hadith recounts a dog pissing in the mosque. So dogs roamed around inside the mosque and nobody had a problem with that. When some guys freaked out because the dog pissed inside the mosque Mohammed said, just pour some water over it and it is fine.
    So it’s sunnah to have dogs around and not to freak out when the do a little pee where they are not supposed to bt just clean it with water.
    -there is a hadith which tells you to wash your bowls after you have fed your dog out of them. So it’s not only perfectly normal to own a dog, but also to feed it out of your own bowls. The version recounted by Aby haraira is different from the other versions because his insists on a ritual cleaning. But then Abu Haraira was known for altering hadith and making them up.
    -you can eat whatever your dog has caught for you, so how can a dog be unclean?
    -And as a last logical reasoning; how can an animal which is so dedicated and loving to humans be made by Allah and then classified as an unclean animal?
    (of course it isn’t mentioned at all in the Quran as an unclean or forbidden animal)

    So I think everybody can have as many dogs as they wish.

    Sami, mabrook on getting a german shepard dog. I have one myself: Zora, and she is adorable! They need strickt rules but they will do anything for you and are so easy to teach!

    maryam, in cats deafness and blue eyes can be linked due to a defective gene. But that doesn’t mean she has to be deaf, a cat can have a blue eye without having to be deaf. If they have two blue eyes they almost always are deaf. This is what I remember from a catbook.

  206. Crazii rabbit, I agree with you. My dog has had a hystorectomy, mostly because she has a defective elbow, which her pups would probably inherit, but it will also make sure she won’t get an womb infection which happens very often in female dogs, my pet died of it when I was 11.
    My horse is also ”not entire”, that was done before I brought him, but I would consider it cruel if he still had his balls and sexual urges and no means to satisfy them. Also I could not keep him in a group and go trekking with him and put him in with other horses. He would have to live a lonely life with no interaction with other horses. And horses are very social animals. He hates it if he’s without other horses, even for only an hour. And there would be no fun because we couldn’t go on weekends or treks. I do think it’s a bit of a pity but my horse has a hundred times better life without his balls. ;)

  207. Haha! That’s funny, but oh so true, my horse wasn’t spayed, and she was miserable!

  208. How can you say convenience? You think it’s more convenient to kill stray animals? Or to spend more money on a surgery that you could’ve spent on your children or on someone or something else? There’s no reason why we have to suffer to have pets. I am not a muslim, and I do believe what the bible says, and it says that Gods gave us dominion over all the animals. We have to take care of the Earth including the animals. And letting them run wild and get diseases and overpopulate is not taking care of them. But God never made it a burden on us to spend more than what is necessary to care for them. And just because I don’t want to spend THAT much money on a surgery that is not necessary does not mean that I shouldn’t have pets. When the choices you are faced with are either death to the animal or castration, which do you think the animal would choose?

  209. Abusinan…so God made the human “perfect” and yet we are meant to alter that perfection my cutting part of it away because its unclean? Seems like God would have known that and just create us without that bit….hmmm?

    Not to mention…we generally cut those bits away while the person in question is a BABY (all though most often girls are much older and suffer a hell of a lot more…as usual)…and has no choice in the matter…very unIslamic to force mutilation on someone against their will. Everything in Islam is about free will.

    Free will to practice Islam or not is a basic tenet (no compulsion in religion)…but free will to hang on to your extra bit of skin is out of your hands? Not making sense bro.

    But then again…as someone commented…Arabs/Muslim would much rather shoot dogs and cats, place poison out for them, purposely run them over with their cars and leave their kicking miserable bodies in the street (yes it does happen, 23 years watching this sort of abhorrent behavior)….but then say…DOGS are unclean and haram? The minds of some Arab/Muslims are the objects of dirtiness far as Im concerned. (this not meant for you…just ranting)

  210. I must respectfully agree to disagree on the perspectives that female circumcision in any way could be positive or beneficial to a woman.

  211. Abu Sinan –
    Forget about protection for HIV. The study/experiment that was being conducted in Africa where they were circumcising men to prevent HIV was called off because it was a total and utter failure. There was no added protection against the virus so how many more women, men and children were killed by this experiment????

    As to female circumcision there are more health problems created by this cruel act not to mention psychological damage. There is absolutely no positive benefits for women and in many ways the act is also harmful to men because it destroys a vital part of marriage.

  212. @Coolred,

    Where do you get the idea that “God created men perfect”.? There is nothing perfect, save God himself. I dont know anyone who teaches that.

    @Carol,

    Who was saying that female genital mutilation was okay or had any benefits?

    My comment was solely about the practice with both Jewish and Muslim males and the FACT the cirumcision has proven health and hygene benefits.

    As you have said, no such evidence is there for female circumcision nor is it a part of Islam or Judaism.

    Wendy,

    As with Carol, I havent seen anyone defending the practice with women. As for men, it isnt just HIV, it has been proven to lower cancer, not to mention the cleanliness aspect.

  213. Oh my God I didn’t know I would start a firestorm, but anyway animals don’t ‘suffer’ from their sexuality, I worked around horses and many animals are known to masturbate(including dogs, horses etc.) and so they can pretty much help themselves, I am totally against any unnecessary cruelty against animals including hunting for sport, shooting them, or beating them or castrating them, I think ‘fixing’ is the wrong term, because you’re not fixing anything, they weren’t ‘broken’, so if something is not broke don’t fix it, but anyway I would say vasectomy I would say is the equilvalent of circumcision, not really though, it’s my personal choice and ethic that I would never mutilate my dog, because at least with a vasectomy you’re not tearing anything out. And about horses, horses are social animals the best way to raise a stallion is not isolate him but raise him with a group of other stallions in a bachelor group setting and they often grew up to be tame, in Morocco for example there’s this ranch were they have stallions for horseback riding and they are completely gentle because of how they’re raised. I know this guy who had a stallion and mare, the stallion had a vasectomy and so the stallion is able to enjoy himself with his mare without the trouble of producing a foal, there was a similar story of a couple with their two cats. I’m just saying it’s not clear cut(no pun intended), I mean if you want to castrate your pet that’s fine with me, just don’t tell me how to care for my pet it’s all a matter of personal responsibility to deal with all aspects of the animal.
    Salaam

  214. Oh yeah here’s the link from Morocco about their horses
    http://ranchdediabat.com/Eng/index2.html

  215. @Abu Sinan,

    I was responding to an earlier comment which was citing benefits of female circumcision to which I respectfully disagree. After all this is one of the causes for which politically asylum has been accepted due to how it causes so much damage – emotionally and physically.

    @Sami,

    You are right in that animals do seem to have their own needs and know how to fulfill them. I will never forget when the local zoo near my home in the States had to close down the gorilla exhibit because the gorilla would get excited and masturbate whenever anyone stood in front of his cage and watched him!

  216. Abusinan

    095.004
    YUSUFALI: We have indeed created man in the best of moulds,

    …but with a faulty winkie?

  217. btw are we not to assume God makes everything “perfect” since its exactly the way God wanted and created it? Does God create imperfection?

  218. @ Cracker,

    Your argument is weak. Simple and plain. Female circumcisions in the context your talking about and from the evidence you have produced is weak at the most.

    Islam DOES NOT condone mutilation of females. Especially with the intension of stopping them from recieving or enjoying sexual pleasure!

    Pardon me if I get a bit too graphic. My sincere apologies but I need to make it clear that this statement is completely off the mark.
    And pardon me if my choice of words do not reflect a calm manner (cos I’m NOT!)

    The sunnah does NOT permit that a woman’s clitoris, Labia (major and minor) be cut OR that the woman/ child be sewn, rather AT THE MOST, the skin covering the clitoris is the ONLY part that was permited to be cut therefor exposing the nerve endings (glans) situated within the organ. Same as that which you would find if you circumcised a male person.

    This by the way was a practise established long before Islam, christianity and possibly even judaism by people of other religions and cultures. NOT JUST MUSLIMS hold or condone such extreme acts on females.
    Those cultures that did mutilate women in that way used (and still use in some places) the same feeble evidence that you have produced here.

    I will cut and past one such example FROM what you have posted on here:
    Circumcision reduces excessive sensitivity of the clitoris which may cause it to increase in size to 3 centimeters when aroused, which is very annoying to the husband, especially at the time of intercourse.

    Such a statement undermines the rights women have within the sharia which includes the right to sexual satisfaction same as the man has that right. (And if her husband cannot sexually satisfy her by the way, she has the right to divorce him)

    It also leads to misunderstandings about the treatment of women from an Islamic point of view from the view point of a non muslim.

    Your evidence IN MY OPINION IS DANGEROUS!

    As for the hygein argument, prevention of women masterbating, aid in helping the women keep their chastity,cure for ailments including hysteria, HEADACHES,epilepsy and many more examples that people used, these again were view points held by some physicians, cultures and religions well into 1950’s who were NOT muslims too.

    The practise of female circumsion was also practised in other places including North and South America, Britain, Indonesia, Malaysia as well as being a common practise in sub saharan countries within Africa including Nigeria, Somalia, Eritrea and many other countries within the continent.

    Even the hadiths that support female circumcision are viewed as weak as there are no chains of transmission that can be followed.
    It has been stated by the scholars, that hadiths which are weak, it is impermissable to to use them as evidence pertaining a ruling within Islam so can you expalin where you got your evidence from please?
    Because I do not believe that your evidence comes from people who have studied or have experience in Islamic laws, Qur’aan OR the Sunnah.

    http://www.jannah.org/genderequity/equityappendix.html

    http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/438/

    http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=Islamonline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503543886

    Once again my apologies to anyone that I may have offended by my choice of words.

  219. Sami, thank you for that interesting link.

    I live in the Netherlands: it is very expensive to keep one horse, let alone more. We don’t have the space, nor does anybody here keep a herd of bachelor horses. No farmer or liverystable would take my horse as a stallion. And he could not be put out in a mixed group. Nor could I trek with him and stay at different places at night. Stallions here lead a fairly lonely life.
    I do know one gelded stallion who enjoys himself very much with his girlfriend. Totally indecent! :twisted:
    I’m sorry but a vascetomy is no option in the Netherlands, and if I had the resources and possibillity of keeping a few girlfriends for my horse I would have him entire anyway.
    But as it is I brought him as a gelding. He was castrated quite late so he is very stallionesque. Actually the lady who owned him had to do it because she couldn’t get people to care for him as they were scared of him.
    He is a very clever and dominating hooligan…

  220. Maryam, There’s nothing wrong or offensive with your words in any way. I agree wholeheartily!
    The ”reasons” of hysteria etc stated are complete balderdash from ancient primitive backward times. They are the destorted brainchild of retarded ”doctors” with some severe mental problems and probably a deranged fobia of women.

  221. Salaam everyone, sorry I started an uproar but if I offended anyone I’m sorry I’m just voicing my opinion on the neuter issue I just prefer not to do it to my best friend. Either way we need to support each other I don’t want to cause division, we need to be together or else the haram police will get the better of us!

  222. @Coolred,

    “Best of moulds” hardly equates to perfection. Again, Islam teaches that the ONLY perfect is God alone.

    As to God’s creations, I personally think He created things to fit a certain purpose, and that we dont always know. What we might see as imperfect isnt so.

    This view isnt unique to Islam, rather it is held by Christians and Jews. You seem to be making the argument usually made by atheists and agnostics.

  223. Abusinan…Im not making an argument as Im not arguing…i just find it interesting that we decry so much about Judaism and Christianity…claiming they have strayed far from the original intent etc…but still keep the old practice of mutilating our children. From all of what they practiced…THATS what we hung on to as authentically religious?

    Nothing wrong with arguing like an atheist or agnostic..if they are making sense.

  224. I also have a problem with the ”perfect creation” of God and then suddenly there needs to be stuff cut off here and there.
    Genitals to be precise.
    And really with only one goal, to make them less ensitive and therefore hopefully control people sexually. So really it’s all about control of people, so really I don’t believe anything devine at all, just the normal, everyday desire of people to control other people.

    And it’s the same in Christianity and Judaism because they are all the same belief to start with anyway, just some regional differences which worked out as Christianity and Islam.

  225. Let us not forget that God made a creation that he gave the ultimate gift of free will to. And WE screwed it up, not God. He gave us a choice to either follow and worship him, or not. He said he would reward us if we did worship him, and punish us if we didn’t, but he gave us that CHOICE. So God did not make an imperfect creation, he made one with the ability to think for itself. But not without regulation, and God said, since Moses, that the male children needed to be circumcised. It was when Moses left for Egypt and Zoppora was following him with his sons, and God told her to circumcise them before she got to Egypt. Now that was a direct commandment from God That he always enforced, all throughout the bible it mentions the necessity of it. So please consider that God made us, not as perfect as him, but with a choice to be perfect or not, and WE chose not to be, not God.

  226. ok i’m going to throw my hat in and say i’m with aafke and coolred. if i come across female circumcision, that too forced i wouldn’t think twice before getting the lunatic who forced it behind bars- religion or not.

    As for males- there’s absolutely no need to go snip snip . I would think it’s a choice, let the person decide. As far as my knowledge goes there’s no proof one way or other about aids prvention etc., there simply have not been enough studies in a large enough group to come to that conclusion.. As for cleanliness- that can be taught.

    this was a big deal when my son was born ( for a few hrs) , I assumed we’d get him circumcised – due to my husband’s religion. but then again we were in india then and closer to my family so if he was raised hindu he’s stick out ( not that anyone would check :-) so in light of our special circumstances we decided to let it be and give him the choice, when he’s grown he can choose . he’s grown now and i doubt that this topic has crossed his mind. :-)

  227. @Coolred,

    As Islam isnt a new religion I dont find it odd at all that we would retain some, or even a lot of the practices revealed to first Jews and then Christians.

    Just because Islam retains the basic core beliefs of the previous incarnations of monotheism doesnt mean they didnt stray along the way.

  228. Salaam hey guys, I just want to change the subject here, you know if you guys want to debate circumcision and what not, do it in another blog, remember what this blog was all about? Being Muslim and having a dog! But anyway I never told you guys that my younger cousin JD on my mother’s side who lives a block away from me has a old Husky named ‘Steel’ and I often visit him and his dog, Steel is 11 years old and with diabetes but he’s receiving insulin shots and he looks healthy and lively and so I often hang out with him when I visit my cousin because I don’t have much experience or contact with dogs unfortunately. Well I tell you guys a sad story, when my parents were together six years ago we got a Golden Retriever for my sister at the time my father heavily influenced me and I disliked dogs as much as he did and didn’t even want to touch her, my mom and my younger sister fed her but didn’t train after a year she was troublesome, barking all the time its because she didn’t have enough attention or training and one time she snuck in the house and my father literally kicked her out, I watched and I was shocked, that was the only time my father hurt an animal he later regret what he did,eventually animal control came in and took her away, it wasn’t until a year ago that my perception of dogs changed because I read the Koran and researched for myself and found that there’s nothing wrong with dogs in Islam, but anyway I feel bad that even though I never did anything with my sister’s dog, I feel bad that I didn’t help because of my ignorance and my father’s strong cultural influence on me, I know longer look to my father for spiritual guidance, I think for myself by reading, reading and more reading. Inshallah when I get my dog I’ll set things right.

  229. PS correction at the end were it says “I NO longer look to my father for spiritual guidance”

  230. Wow Sami – that was quite an experience for you and opening eyes in many ways.

    It saddens me when one sees anyone who does treat animals properly. They will be (alledgely) a pet but then why does the committment seem to wane?

    I can appreciate dogs but realize overall, I am a cat purrson. (smile)

  231. Sami, good for you; it’s your life, your responsibillity to yourself and to God, and you should think for yourself.

    If you have no experience with dogs an Alsatian (German Shepard) might not be the best choice to start. You have to be very strickt, but very honest with an Alsatian. You need a lot of selfcontrol. You should never treat an Alsatian dishonestly. You should be friendly but have a lot of consistency. They are not the easiest dogs to train.

    Anyway, this is a site with a lot of training information for dogs, hope you will find it useful. It contains some very advanced stuff as well, only for dogs who have perfect basic training!
    http://www.uwsp.edu/psych/dog/dog.htm

    PS, we do digress from time to time, it’s the natural result of discussions, and if Bedu thinks we go too far she will send us to the debate page.

  232. Thank you Aafke for the very helpful links!

  233. I had a German Sheppard while a teen…she was no problem to train…even learned to do things a “normal” dog shouldnt do. They are scary smart.

  234. I guess there is a reason German Shephard/Alsatian’s are a top pick for seeing eye dogs, guard dogs, DEA dogs, police dogs, ATF dogs, FBI dogs….have I missed any groups that use them?

  235. diabetic dogs – for kids with diabetes

  236. Salaam,Oh thank you so much guys, thanks for the resources, I recently bought a book on German Shepherd Dogs, it’s amazing that a few years ago I thought I would never like dogs but I now made a 180 degree turn and now I’m in love with dogs especially German Shepherds. I’m sickened on how many traditional Muslims treat dogs leaving them in the streets to die, I think the Islamic and humane thing to do is take them in and give them a good home were they would be treated well and in turn they will protect their families to their last breath. One thing about a dog’s loyalty is that if you save his life and make him prosper he’ll never turn on you and he will always be faithful unlike some people who do sometimes turn on each other.

  237. Here’s a great article I found about a community of Kuwaiti dog lovers they say ‘Muslims love dogs too’
    http://www.kuwaittimes.net/read_news.php?newsid=NzE1MzAwOTEx
    Enjoy

  238. @Sami – FWIW, German Shephards are the most popular breed of dogs in Saudi. I learned this when I interviewed Saudi vet, Dr. Majed, for Saudi Television.

    Radha – please…tell us more! I never heard of diabetic dogs. Are these dogs trained to assist or detect if a diabetic is having a seizure or something?

  239. No you don’t understand its my cousin’s dog that has diabetes the Husky has diabetes, my cousin has to give his dog two insulin shots per day and thank God he looks in good shape he’s 11 years old now, an old dog, I can still play with him when I go to my cousin’s house.

  240. This is my first time on this site and hate to say that the picture of a Dog with the Saudi Arabian flag on it is a sign of disrespect. If anyone could read what is written on the flag and understood the meaning will agree. The Kalimah is the highest point in Islam.

    Regarding dogs if they where okay then the Prophet would have told us. In today’s world innovation is at it’ s best but keep religion away from it. No issues with anybody keeping a dog but don’t justify it with Islam.

    Not sure if my comments will be posted or not but whoever is reading, i request humbly to remove the flag. I am an expat by paper but by heart a Saudi.

    with respect to the editor
    Mir

  241. Salaam Mualakum Ali Khan the Koran says nothing bad about dogs in fact they are seen in a positive light, especially in Surah Al-Kahf were a dog slept among the sleepers of the cave in which God blessed, the Hadiths are often conflicting each other on this point they are anti-dog hadiths as well as hadiths that show dogs in a good way, as rule of thumb if a hadith contradicts the Koran it’s probably weak but if it goes with it than its true and should be followed, but we do have scholarly support the Maliki school of thought say dogs are pure , they say the anti-dog hadiths are insuffiecient in relability and authenticity and so dogs are pure according to them, the Koran says pigs are dirty no arguement there since the Koran the word of God directly says so, but if dogs are so bad why didn’t God mention it? This is not a clear cut issue there is difference of opinions between all kinds of scholars, Khaled Abou El Fadl’s article on dogs was very enlightening, in my opinion after doing a lot of research I see nothing wrong about having a dog as long as you keep the prayer area clean and keep the dog and yourself clean, I’m convinced there’s nothing wrong with being Muslim and having a dog, I mean many Americans like me who have converted to Islam many of them have dogs are you expecting them to give up their dogs? That’s going to turn away a lot of potential converts to Islam, don’t make things haraam unless you have strong compelling evidence for it from the Koran and Hadiths.
    By the way here’s the scholar’s article on dogs.
    Short version
    http://www.scholarofthehouse.org/dinistrandna.html
    Long version
    http://www.scholarofthehouse.org/tloofesfaond.html
    I hope this helps
    Salaam

  242. Brother Sami,

    The Quran does not even speak of how to perform prayers…. And I have mentioned in my earlier comments that today’s world is full of innovation. What the Prophet (PBUH) has said or done is to teach us the Ummah to how to live in this world and this is again from Allah through the Prophet . If you read the Quran it says what is halah it mentions and what is haram it also mentions but between them is a gray area where the Quran says to avoid. And mind those that love Allah will come to Islam a small thing like Dog can never be the cause for anyone to accept to divert from Islam. May Allah give us guidance. And also there are no contradicting hadiths on dog which are mentioned below ( quoted from Bhukari). So many scholar with so many fatwas and with many ideas is not Islam.

    Narrated Abu Huraira:
    Hadith 515:
    God’s Apostle said, “Whoever keeps a dog, one Qirat of the reward of his good deeds is deducted daily, unless the dog is used for guarding a farm or cattle.” Abu Huraira (in another narration) said from the Prophet, “unless it is used for guarding sheep or farms, or for hunting.” Narrated Abu Hazim from Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, “A dog for guarding cattle or for hunting.”

    Narrated As-Sa’ib bin Yazid:
    Hadith 516:
    Abu Sufyan bin Abu Zuhair, a man from Azd Shanu’a and one of the companions of the Prophet said, “I heard God’s Apostle saying, ‘If one keeps a dog which is meant for guarding neither a farm nor cattle, one Qirat of the reward of his good deeds is deducted daily.” I said, “Did you hear this from God’s Apostle?” He said, “Yes, by the Lord of this Mosque.”
    Narrated Abu Talha:
    Hadith 448:
    I heard God’s Apostle saying; “Angels (of Mercy) do not enter a house wherein there is a dog or a picture of a living creature (a human being or an animal).”

    Narrated Salim’s father:
    Hadith 843:
    Once Gabriel promised to visit the Prophet but he delayed and the Prophet got worried about that. At last he came out and found Gabriel and complained to him of his grief (for his delay). Gabriel said to him, “We do not enter a place in which there is a picture or a dog.”

    And I have also requested the editor to remove the flag from the poster of the dog. But I love my Prophet and he never forced things on anybody and neither will I.

    regards,
    Mir Ali Khan

  243. Brother Sami,

    Regarding the Surah Al-Kahf this is something that happened long before the Prophet Mohammed PBUH times. And in the Surah, it mentions the dog and the other persons as true story. Does not mention anything about dog being good or bad. But there is no end to this discussion and we must ask Allah for guidance.
    regards,
    Mir Ali Khan

  244. Brother Sami,

    Regarding the Surah Al-Kahf this is something that happened long before the Prophet Mohammed PBUH times. And in the Surah, it mentions the dog and the other persons as true story. Does not mention anything about dog being good or bad. There are other stories on other animals also.But there is no end to this discussion and we must ask Allah for guidance.
    regards,
    Mir Ali Khan

  245. @Mir Ali Khan

    Thank you!
    I was fed up with these guys who are not understanding this point and blaming hadiths directly on this site. But nice to see somebody still there to support a correct understanding. Just like you, I have posted earlier several texts to support what you have posted now but only got silly questions and a not ending argument. So, I decided to pray to Allah for their guidance and stopped writing further.

  246. Mir Ali Khan read the comments, all your objections have been made and countered.
    Allah has guided everybody here, if it has been in a different direction than you think you have been guided that doesn’t mean they are wrong. It may mean that you are wrong in denouncing God’s creation so easily.

    That goes to you to Mohammed, perhaps you should open your mind and heart and try to get some guidance from Allah.

  247. Mir Ali Khan:
    I disagree with you on someone who would not convert because of the issue of a dog. It may not be a big deal to YOU, but to someone like me who has a”connection” with animals who grew up with animals, spent EVERY waking moment with an animal, especially dogs, it IS an issue! I remember being a kid and being sick, and always either having cat laying with me or a dog, and it made me feel so much better! Just last year I was pregnant and so sick that I slept on the couch for a week straight and had such a high fever that I was hallucinating. My husband, even tho Muslim, was good enough to let my dog sleep with me the whole time. He didn’t sleep with me, and I didn’t sleep on the bed, but he allowed my Flash to sleep with me while I was sick, and it made me feel so much better! It’s like an amazing cure! It didn’t make my sickness better, but emotionally, waking up and seeing him there, and feeling him there, and him keeping me warm, was so comforting.
    I think it is downright CRUEL what the hadiths say that Mohamed did when it says that he KILLED all the dogs except the guard dog. and when it says that ALL black dogs should be killed, so why would I want to convert to a religion that is cruel to GOD’S creatures?! So YES it does affect my decision, along with other things I haven’t accepted about Islam.

  248. @MIr Ali,

    I see………..so angels possesed the ability to enter spaces with dogs………..but the Prophet, a man, came and CHANGED how angels work. See, I thought only God could do that. Besides the unfortunate fact that if angels once could enter spaces with dogs and then God changed that “rule” then He must have been wrong then.

    You guys must really learn to think for yourselves. But I am glad you guys are all for Hadith no matter if they contradict The Qur’an. Since you support all Hadith, can you enlighten us as to what urine tastes like? Assuming you both have had a fever before I am SURE you both drank camel’s urine to help it as was the advise of the Prophet! If not………..why get so hot and bother about hadiths that contradict The Qur’an and ignore drinking pee?

    Bukhari Vol 1, Book 4, Number 234

    Narrated Abu Qilaba: Anas said, “Some people of ‘Ukl or ‘Uraina tribe came to Medina and its climate did not suit them. So the Prophet ordered them to go to the herd of (Milch) camels and to drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they went as directed and after they became healthy……………….”

  249. @Mir Ali,

    Can you explain to us why The Qur’an, the unaltered word of God, says you can eat food that has been in a dog’s mouth, if dogs are so bad.

    The FACT is that there are thousands of Hadith, pieces of information passed on by men. YOU might choose to follow the word of man over God, but me? I’ll stick to the word of God over man passed on hadith any day.

    BTW………….get back to me on camel’s urine! It must be long lasting medicine for you as you are SO into Hadith. Let me guess………..you married a lady older than you, divorced with children?

    These people are the worst sort, hypocrites who use the word of man, ignore the word of God because they it better suits their needs. When it comes to these same hadith that arent so fun they ignore it!

  250. If you REALLY want to get down to the real gist of this issue, I think people who say dogs are “Haram” are probably afraid of dogs. It is a much easier and a less cowardly way out than to actually say “I am afraid of a doggy”!!! LOL So, they say “Oh, it is against our religion”…….

    Any animal out there is dirty. An animal is an animal, plain and simple. Cats lick themselves as much as dogs do as so many other animals as well. But let’s face it, little 2 and 3 year old little humans are dirty too! LOLO Are we going to say they are “Haram”?? LOLO

    What these animals, the dogs especially, do to human beings is in no way an act against Allah’s wishes. How could they be when Allah, Himself, has created the dog to help mankind…….

    Oh and btw, I will bet my life on it that OUR dog is cleaner than 50% of the population out there…………LOLOLO

  251. Salaam Mir Ali Khan well I’m been trying to tell you I don’t reject sunnah, yes we need it for prayer and the hadiths that helps us be better people such as the ones that talk about seeking knowledge, be good to your neighbor etc, these hadiths we should follow but the hadiths make you cruel to another animal is probably weak because the Prophet(pbuh) was a mercy to all creatures including dogs and so the idea saying black dogs are devils for example sounds like old arab superstition that was snuck into the hadith, its ridiculous. The hadith about losing reward for keeping a dog there’s also a hadith saying that if you keep a horse like pet you also lose reward so that means its haram to keep a horse as well unless you use the horse for something. The thing is with hadith its a double-edged sword, it can make you a better person or it can turn you into one of the haram police always judging others and making Islam too legalistic rather than spiritual. Historical context matters many hadith were meant to solve problems for that time,the word keep, if you look in the dictionary can also mean confine, and so yeah it would be cruel to confine a dog without letting him run around, the hadith about an angel being afraid of a dog also sounds funny, in the Koran in Surah al-Kahf God had mercy on the people of the cave and more than likely angels were watching over them with the dog being alongside the believers, and so that hadith sounds doubtful, not mention that hadith also says angels are afraid of pictures, and I’m sure the vast majority of Muslims have pictures everywhere in their house but no one is coming to them saying haram! haram! So you should get rid of all your pictures and family photos because angels are not coming to your house. But anyway back then in 7th century Arabia people were trying to survive in a harsh environment and they had to use everything they had including family,animals etc to survive, at that time you can’t afford to have a pet no one can unless your a king or something and so back then when the whole community is trying to survive keeping ANY animal as a pet would be a waste of a resource wheter its a dog, horse ,or donkey or whatever. Not much changed two hundred years later in the 9th century when the ulema ‘closed the gates of ijtihad’ and so many scholars today just simply apply 9th century interpretation to a 21st century context in which that won’t work out, we need to open those gates again and reinterpret for today, of course we keep the essential beliefs the Five pillars, don’t drink, don’t gamble, don’t eat pork, don’t fornicate etc, but were flexibility is allowed were the Koran is silent and Hadiths are in conflict we can re-evaluate. Another thing is that back then dogs were used for herding and all that, there’s no vaccine for rabies, there was no medicine at all for animals back then, so keeping a dog AT THE TIME could have been dangerous when they get rabies, but now we are much cleaner and we have a vaccine for rabbies and keeping a dog is much, much safer. In the United States for example, a hundred years ago dogs were 90% of the time were working on the farm, and slept outside, it wasn’t until probably after world war I or World war II that dogs became common pets, the thing is my point is that TIMES HAVE CHANGED, and so we are no longer living in the desert struggling to survive but we live for the most part comfortable lives but there’s still a lot of poverty, but anyway I’m a practicing Muslim, I pray five times a day, give zakat, fast on ramadan and inshallah I’ll go to Mecca, I don’t drink, smoke, eat pork, or gamble, and I never had a girlfriend neither, and so what more do you want from me? I see nothing wrong in having a dog and being a good Muslim its not contradictory.
    Salaam

  252. Good comments Sami. I wonder how Mohammed and Mir can call dogs “dirty” with a straight face………..yet have NO ISSUE with hadith about drinking urine.

    Seriously? Dogs are dirty but drinking camel urine is okay? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

  253. Salaam guys, well here’s an article I found on how the bond between people and animals changed over the last hundred years in the United States.
    http://www.censhare.umn.edu/spotlight02.html

  254. Actually I am dirty too.
    I do wash myself, naturally, but inbetween I can get very dirty. After my horse is cleaned up you don’t want to touch me with a stick. (until I showered)

    My horse is a pet btw… :twisted:

  255. Hey Aafke I also like horses but I like donkeys more, I hate getting dirty I’m a very clean person but when I’m with animals(horses,donkeys,dogs) I don’t care but I sure do clean myself afterward! The animals I like are: Donkeys,Horses, Crows/Ravens, and German Shepherd Dogs. I usually like the animals that are looked down upon by society like donkeys,crows, and dogs, I have sympathy for them, before I liked dogs, I really liked Donkeys and Horses(I still do like them), my first job was a pony ride business when I was 14, I would like a donkey as a pet but I don’t have the space for him(I never like to call animals ‘it’ thats for inanimate objects), so I got the idea to get a dog, I’m saving my money for next year to get a dog( I currently work part-time at Grocery Store), I have a scholarship so I don’t have to worry about college expenses and so whatever money I earn is for myself and I use it to help my family when they need it, to buy myself what I need and putting the rest in the bank, I’m going to be responsible to pay everything for the dog including food, medicine and everything else, I’ll take care of him, train him, and look after him, the German Shepherd is my all time favorite breed because they are intelligent, adaptable and devoted friend.

  256. Sami,

    I do not recall your location but many vets or shelters will gladly welcome volunteers to help exercise, clean and just give the animals love. I am saying this in case you were not aware of it.

    I also like donkeys (jahash in arabic). They are adorable with their big brown eyes that speak volumes and their small compact body which is so strong.

  257. Salaam American Bedu, I’m not Saudi, I’m actually mixed Turkish and Spanish descent and I live in a small city called Covina in California, its about 22 miles away from Los Angeles, the weather here is very much like the Mediterranean countries like Spain, Italy, Greece or Turkey, so in other words, the beautiful weather year round, there’s sunshine most of the year, southern California has hot,dry summers and cool, wet winters, it mainly rains during the winter but sometimes in the spring or autumn, and almost no rain during the summer.

  258. Wa’alaikum Salam Sami,

    I am sure if you are interested there are likely a number of vets and shelters you could volunteer and have time with animals as well as learn more about their care, etc.

  259. Sami, I so agree! I also don’t like that the English language calls animals ”it”. I suppose when you come from another language it is more noticable.

    I love German Shepards, and they are totally devoted! Except every now and then when Zora decides to go ”investigating”. And last weekend, when three roe-deer crossed the road in the snow ahead of us, she suddenly loses her hearing as she tore after them and I was calling her back.

  260. I know in my area we have horse stables that deal exclusively with children with disabilities, from Down Syndome to Autism and the like. I have been thinking about working with them. When I was in England I voluntered at my own stables when they ran the programs with children with special needs.

    Volunteerism and animals is a great thing.

  261. carol – by diabetic dogs i mean Dogs for Diabetics usually kids, they are medical alert assistance dogs to kids/youth who are insulin-dependent type 1 diabetics. They are specifically trained to identify and act upon the subtle scent changes that hypoglycemia creates in the body ,

    You have to see it to believe it .The subtle changes are undetectable to humans, but the dogs can smell them and usually warn , My daughter’s classmate had one from elementary school.

  262. There are also dogs which are trained to help epileptics, some people don’t dare to leave the house anymore, they hahve it so bad, they can drop unconcious any time, anywhere. It’s very dangerous, it could happen in the middle of the street and they really don’t know when it’s going to happen. But dogs know, they can warn their handler its coming, and they protect them when they are down, and they lick their faces and hands because that makes them come out much faster.

    I have been thinking; I think it’s cruel and evil to prohibit pets, Pet owners are nicer people than people who don’t have pets. Statistically, they are also happier and healthier and live longer!!!!

  263. Thats why I got a service dog. I have some problem where I just pass out randomly, and dogs can sense when that is going to happen

  264. Reading all the great and interesting responses on how dogs (and others animals) are either therapeutic or care for or watch over adults and children…I wonder if anyone has determined whether an animal such as a dog can be a watcher for someone with alzheimer’s and help detect if they are unknowingly placing themselves in danger or forgetting about a pot left on the stove?

  265. I’m absolutely sure of it!

  266. @Carol,

    Service dogs can be trained for people who wander. It is one of the reasons people with Autism get them, they can help cross streets, ect. Not sure about the pots issue……….

  267. Salaam Alaikum Brothers,

    Mashallah, from the discussions it clearly understood the level of knowledge in Islam and grasping power people have. I have in my discussion never remarked to any person directly. But the dear brothers have made sarcastic remarks on Mohammed and me. Such behavior is seen when people start panicking. My comments are:

    1) Never Have I said Dogs are dirty animals. Those who made this remark seems lacking in basic english education.

    2) Regarding Urine if someone can read the whole statement , it clearly states that the Prophet advised urine to those who where sick with what ever problem that we do not know. This is similar to one incident where he allowed only two people to wear silk clothing because they had some skin infection.

    3) For those who state Quran the word of Allah, can I please ask them did they directly recieved it and if not from who. Please understand whatever the Prophet said or done is from Allah also to teach us. Even Satan and pigs are Allah’s creation.

    4) Regarding Horse again why is half the statement taken, the Prophet said that if you keep a horse for show off then it becomes a problem but if you keep a horse to use it for Allah cause then it is okay. This is niyyah or intention…

    5) Why is reference of Khaf being taken when this happened long before the Prophet times when even alcohol was not haram. Which animals did the prophet had ?

    6) In the name of Allah I am not afraid of anything except Allah. but must know that strongest are those who can control their anger not those who jump up and down.

    7) I am amazed to how people are making fun of hadiths, it is better to keep quite if you don’t understand.

    8)Even during Prophet times there were people who used to do prayers and do good but as we all know some of them were Munafik or hypocrites. As is mentioned in the Quran, no doubt if they existed then they must be now also.

    9) As mentioned before everybody is treating Islam as a pet take what you like and reject which is not okay .. Islam is not to be questioned but to be understood… As mentioned in the Quran, Allah has sealed off the hearts and if does not matter if you warn them or not.

    10) Arab superstitions ! similar to the Jews they have not accepted our Prophet because he was born in an Arab family unlike their other Prophets.

    11) Again no one was able to provide contradictory hadith to what I have mentioned.

    In the end do apologize for any remarks that might have caused problem it was only to show anybody can cause pain to others but pointing to each other is not Islam.

    I will not be writing any more in this forum as no one has removed the flag from the dog’s poster and no one really speaks on this issue.

    Mohammed,

    i apologize for the bad behavior from everybody. if you read about Agog and Magog in dept. Inshallah you will understand.

    Salaam Alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa Barakatahu
    Mir Ali Khan

  268. Salaam Mir Ali Khan, I did not offend, I’m not panicking at all,and I’m not angry,I’ve been Muslim for five years now since I was 14, I’ve studied a lot on Islam, for one please don’t compare the dog to the pig, the pig is unclean because the Koran says so, the pig has always been unclean, but how could a dog be clean like in Surah Al-Kahf and then all of the sudden be unclean? The Maliki school of thought, a legitimate school says dogs are pure so not all the scholars agree, Imam Malik pointed out the Koran says you can eat whatever they catch for you so obviously they are not unclean, because then you couldn’t eat what they catch for you, I’ve always made a rational, intellectual approach to the Islam rather than Traditional, the Koran translation I read was Muhammad Asad’s Koran which is banned in Saudi Arabia, thank God I live in the US, so I read it, its very good interpretation of the Koran, but anyway as I pointed out when comes to intepreting Islamic law historical context matters, did you even read the articles I put up? I just want to say this is not a clear-cut issue, we have scholarly support, and so our position is legitimate, a well educated scholar made a good arguement that dogs are clean and are okay, so we have backup for our claim, but there’s a hadith that says if you use your reason and turn out to be wrong you’ll still be rewarded for using your brain, but if you’re right you’ll have twice the reward. And in the end God will settle our disputes and we’ll see who is right and who is wrong. I highly doubt that God is going to care about me having a dog, as long as I stick to the Five Pillars and stay away from alcohol, pork,gambling, and fornication, I think I should be fine, I see nothing wrong with having a dog after doing months of research.

  269. @Mir,

    Yes, we have provided information that proves your hadith wrong. It is The Qur’an, no better proof could be found. If you insist on following the words of man over the words of God, there is little anyone can do to help you.

    I suggest you reject the word of man over the word of God for your own benefit on the Last Day. Following the word of man and rejecting God’s word will be a heavy burden to bear on that day.

  270. “3) For those who state Quran the word of Allah, can I please ask them did they directly recieved it and if not from who. Please understand whatever the Prophet said or done is from Allah also to teach us. Even Satan and pigs are Allah’s creation.”

    Yes God did make Satan and pigs, but pigs are only allowed not to be eaten, they are used for other things. They are not as bad as some people make them to be…what did a pig ever do to anybody? NOTHING!! God only said do not eat them, he didn’t say shun them. And Satan had free will to do either good or bad, it was a gift from God and he misused it. Doesn’t mean that God makes bad things, it means that he gives power to beings and lets them use it, and how they use it shouldn’t be blamed on God.
    BTW I don’t need anybody apologizing for me, because I don’t believe I did anything wrong. Being presumptuous is just as bad.

  271. Salaam mualakum everyone here’s an update on getting my dog, I met a German Shepherd breeder and he’s a nice guy and we’ve been exchanging E-mails back and forth, he has a stud dog that he offers to breed other people’s dogs for a fee, but anyway he really loves his dog(even though his dog has a bed, he curls up on the bed with him), I ask him how he takes care of him etc., I ask him many questions and he’s been a big help, BTW his dog’s name is Hunter and he’s a very handsome dog, he looks really happy, so I think I can trust him to find me a healthy puppy.

  272. @Sami: that’s great. If he is a breeder, then ask him whether his stud is registered with the American Kennel Association and if so, ask to see the papers and lineage of his dog. Same thing applies for the female German Shepherd.

    All dogs (and cats) who are registered have their unique number which you can verify and confirm you have a purebred.

  273. To All,

    My sincere apologies to anyone offended by the earlier image associated with this post.

    Bedu

  274. yeah I noticed you changed the image, eh the dogs look better in the new image anyway.

  275. @Carol,

    I understand you wanting to make people happy, but I dont think you should have changed the image. By doing so you gave into the ignorance of those who despise and hate dogs for no valid reason. Dogs are not haram in Islam and such a request wouldnt NOT have been made if the animal was a horse or other animal.

    People of moderation need to stand up to the ignorance and extremism of these types, not give them what they want and demand!

  276. I decided to change the image given the words on the Saudi flag and beside the dog. I realize that could be taken by too many as a disrespect for Islam. I’d rather individuals focus on the words rather than get in to a debate about an image.

  277. @Carol,

    The problem with that is that when you remove the image you’ve already ceded the idea that dogs ARE haram in Islam, hence the image is a “disrespect for Islam”.

    You need to understand that many people will find “disrespect” in things that you do, but it doesnt mean you are wrong. Many Saudis, a large percentage, will find the fact that you post images of other animals offensive, pictures of women without hijab, ect.

    Once you set a precident for removing an image that YOU dont find offensive, then it’s open season.

    Many Saudis, and other Muslims, have come here and been offended by many topics you have talked about. If you feel strongly about an issue you shouldnt change because of a vocal minority.

    If YOU dont feel dogs are haram or unclean in Islam then you had no personal issue with your picture, you shouldnt have removed it.

    People, communities, races or religions do not have a natural right not to be offended. If they dont like it……they shouldnt come. To ask you to change something that goes against your own personal beliefs is a bit insulting on THEIR part.

    One of the major issues in the Muslim world today is the inability to want to talk about anything of substance that might upset someone, anything that forces people to think about things that they have always taken for granted.

    Muslims need to learn to feel a bit less “disrespected” and learn how to talk about issues in rational and educated way.

    Demanding that a blogger cede the topic (remove a picture because a dog is haram) isnt a good way of going about this.

  278. I agree with the above post. Doesn’t the Qu’ran say that ALL animals are Muslims? Doesn’t that include the dog, the pig, the horse, the elephant, the alligator…etc? So no matter what the Hadith say about dogs, the Qu’ran supersedes that correct? And if this is what you believe, why change it for anybody except god?

  279. We may agree to disagree. At this time in the bigger scheme and picture it was an appropriate move.

  280. Sami, please try to make sure that both the parents of your puppy are free of hip and elbow dysplasia. Make sure both parents are tested.
    You will spare yourself a lot of broken heart pain. these diseases are genetic and careless breeders in the past have ruined the breed by not being careful.
    http://www.dogbiz.com/dogs-grp7/germ-shep/german-shepherd-health-issues.html

  281. It’s great you are keeping us informed of your progress!

  282. Thanks Aafke, I am aware that German Shepherds even though they’re relatively healthy dogs they are notorious of having hip dysplasia but anyway thanks for the link! Yeah i’ll keep you guys informed but your going to have to wait till summer 2010 next year to see any picture of my future german shepherd puppy. But anyway I’ll keep talking to you guys since you guys are fun to talk to and you guys are the few Muslims I trust to tell about my dog venture, there’s one guy at my mosque and I told him about and he was totally okay with it, he takes an intellectual approach to the Koran and he’s the head of our halaqa there every Friday evening, he’s very smart, his name is Hani, for him there’s nothing wrong with having a dog, the only thing he asked me was am I ready to have dog, am I responsible enough, that’s all he was concerned about so that made me happy because I have some support. So salaam to you guys and I’ll talk to you later.

  283. Great Sami and I enjoy all these updates. Do you know whether you want a male or female?

  284. I am a Muslim woman and my parents visit all the time, since we got a black lab they make comments like “the dog should not be in the house if we are visiting”. My problem with this is that he is outside most of the time unless it is too cold and the humane thing to do is to bring him indoors. He is not allowed in any part of the house except the kitchen where I have a gate to keep him there and he sits in a corner. My non-Muslims who will visit will always show respect for the cleanliness of my home because they have to remove their shoes before entering and I demand that my home always stay clean because we believe that “cleanliness is next to Godliness”. My question is my parents being too paranoid even though I pray in my house is my prayers not being answered?

  285. Salam Alaikum Bebi,

    All I can say is those who believe that dogs are haram and unclean are probably not going to change their minds easily, especially the older they are, the more likely to be rigid in views.

    I understand you don’t want to create friction with your family so I don’t know how you feel about telling them this is your home and includes a pet that is part of your home and family.

    I am sorry you are in such a position and wish I could offer better advice.

    In my view I am confident your prayers are being answered.

  286. I totally agree. I go thru this everyday!

  287. Salaam American Bedu, I would very much want a male German Shepherd dog, and I already thought of a name for him ‘Zaki’ what do you think?

  288. @Bebi,

    Hope you don’t mind but I asked someone about your question as it is one that is very important to know for future reference.
    Their reply is that the prayer would be valid but stated that Angels do not enter the house in which there is a dog.

    As the debate has been going round with differences of opinion, can I politely suggest that since prayers are important to all muslims, maybe you should speak to people with high knowledge within your area to get a more informed idea so your mind is put at ease?
    Just a suggestion.

    Hope this helps.

  289. As the Quran stated the angels did enter the cave where the company slept, blessed by Allah, and a dog being one of the company, it seems silly to claim the angels will not enter a house containing the same animal.

    As the people in the cave and the dog were blessed by Allah I think this might be an indication that the people in a house containing a dog might actually have more chance of a visit by the angels and the blessing of Allah. Maybe all people who own a dog are blessed by Allah, maybe that is the reason people with pets are happier and live longer…

    If we believe in the authority of the Quran, then we know the Quran is clear that nor Allah, nor the angels have any problem with this most loyal of Allahs creation and blessing to humankind: the dog.

    As the Angels, according to the Quran, have no problem being in the same confined space with a dog any hadith inventing something different must be wrong. Actually bidah.

    I bet this really helps the dog-lovers amongst us.

  290. @Sami – Zaki is a cute name and easy to say!

  291. Zaki is what I call my son…lol.

    Maryam…wondering why you assume nobody here has “high knowledge” of Islam (Im assuming that is what you are referring too) and capable of giving a learned answer etc.

    You might be surprised at what and how much some of us know…personally speaking that is.

  292. lol coolred, I had no idea your son is named Zaki, I came up with the name because my name Sami is one letter difference to Zaki it just has Z in it instead of an S so its easy to remember. And yeah Aafke, in Surah Al-Kahf the people of the cave were blessed by God, and Angels are the ones that deliver the mercy and blessings of God, therefore God doesn’t have a problem with a dog being in the same space as you are! Indeed pets are a blessing, scientists and psychologists say people with pets live longer, and are healthier both physically and mentally than people without pets, I always loved animals, I seem to have an emotional connection with them and a world without animals would be hell for me, inshallah I will always be around animals, I feel miserable without them, I feel very happy when I’m around them, they serve as a therapy for me, many scientists say that dogs are often good therapy for people with Autism, me I only have a very mild form of Autism(Asperger’s Syndrome), if you had a conversation with me you might notice it but I’ve been taking therapy and so I’m doing better than I used to, because sometimes I often don’t know what to say to people, many people find me odd, but anyway I think getting a dog would definitely help me.

  293. Sami, I love people who love animals. :) I often don’t know what to say to people. Especially in a gathering it often seems to me everybody is discussing and I have no idea what they are talking about. Many people think I’m very odd!
    I think you are making a very good decision getting a dog!

    I like the name Zaki.
    My dog is called Zora.
    She is currently at my feet shedding hairs… So it’s about time I start hoovering.
    Again.

  294. I personally do not know too much on this subject so I have refrained from commenting too much.

    Because of that, I chose to ask someone on the prayer before posting my last comment.

    I have just tried to relay back the information I was given without prejudice and my advise/ suggestion was not based upon an opinion that people commenting may not have the knowledge to advise in a better manner. (sometimes when I get confused on a matter, I find it easier to show what I mean rather than leaving it to the other person’s imagination so the fact that I suggested that Bebi ask someone of higher knowledge in His/ Her area is just so He/ She can show the person what they mean, sorry was not clear on that point)

    As there are differences of opinion, I personally thought this may be confusing for some.
    Since I do have a pet, it was good for me to find out another opinion on the subject.

    That does not mean I am trying to push my opinion onto anyone else or suggesting they reject any information that they see as fitting into their own situation.

    Hope I’ve cleared this up.

  295. Sorry,

    Also the higher knowledge thing was actually in reference to myself. I do not find it beneficial to assume things about other people or their intensions so I try to only refer to myself when I make comments so I hope that cleared up the matter for you Coolred38.

  296. @ Maryam,

    You write “maybe you should speak to people with high knowledge”

    These same people, many of them, are part of the problem in Islam, not the solution. They think they have “high knowledge” and other people suspend their own critical thinking to follow them.

    The truth is these scholars do nothing more than follow what has been written, thought and said before them. Like their followers, they suspend their own critical thought processes and just to memorise the opinions and ideas of others rather than think for themselves.

    Islam wasnt always like this. There was a day and time when the Muslim world ruled the sciences, maths, medicine and astronomy. Those were the days when Muslim thought for themselves. Now that the prevailing opinion is that there is nothing new to be offered and to challenge anything that has gone before is akin to apostasy, the Muslim world is a backward, mindless swamp.

    Sad. Oh to go back to the day where the world envied the Muslim world, not sat back and laughed at their backwardness and ignorance.

  297. Abu Sinan,
    To a degree, your right in your statement and would not contradict it. But just to put another angle on it, as a person, I seek advise about things that I am not sure of from friends, family, outside sources, and I use my own brain to draw the final conclusion.
    So if a person feels that they are unsure about something and seeks out another’s point of view, it does not mean (in all cases), that they cannot think for themselves.
    A person with a “higher knowledge” is usually someone that the individual respects and trusts to give them an honest answer. Someone with a “higher knowledge” does not really go around bragging about it either in my opinion, they are usually humble people.

    Also in my first comment, I remember refering to the story of the woman promised paradise for giving a dying dog water to drink and putting up links in support of someone keeping service dogs or for a need and dogs being allowed in mosques so I’m not really understanding why my comment is making such “loud waves”.

    As I keep saying, commentors on here have differences of opinion and I for one do not have as much knowledge on the subject as others so I am trying to keep my comments to a minimum.

  298. Another point I forgot to put is:
    I thought that the more important part of the question being put was that of the acceptance of prayer if there is a dog inside the house.

    That part I had never thought about so I asked about it and shared the answer given. If there should be any dispute, why does it not challenge that point but rather, focuses on two simple words that can be interprited in many other ways?

    Sorry, but I feel people are more concerned about the fact that I asked someone about the question (and are presumming yet again that I think their opinion is “gospel”) and want to make an issue out of something petty (compared to the bigger questions being raised) rather than helping to answer difinatively the question.

  299. In the Malaki Madhab school the keeping of dogs as pets is allowed.

  300. Maryam…asking about something you dont know is perfectly fine. I seriously wish more Muslims would do that. Many of them, in my personal opinion, dont bother to ask questions…just accept and swallow the answers that are traditionally passed off as Islamic…without ever bothering to research for themselves.

    When Muslims start opening more books…thats when critical thought will return…until then…memorize memorize memorize…without even trying to understand why your memorizing it or what it means.

  301. I like your blog.

    About dogs, i cant understand this. My friend saw a dog and found it too cute and so she hugged him and she and the dog began showing each other a lot of love and affection. So much that the dog was now licking her face and she was enjoying it. She even kissed the dog on his/her mouth.

    When i asked her why she does not show such affection to me and let me lick her face, kiss her and she in turn do the same to me. She said ” Ewww, thats gross”. He he he !

    I told her that was discrimination. I am a fellow human being after all, am i worse than a dog ? :(

    I just find it strange that i can ever be able to kiss a dog and not do the same to some human who i find cute and cuddle-able.

    Someone please explain !!! .)

  302. Humans carry more diseases than dogs…especially diseases that are deadly and not curable. and affection to an animal doesn’t necessitate sexuality, whereas if you kiss all over a human whether it be boy or girl it could cause sexual intentions towards the other person even if you don’t mean to.

  303. Salaam, I agree with you Abu Sinan, the main reason why the Muslim world flourished from the 7th to the 16th century is because ijtihad (independant critical thinking) was a normal thing, back then they were 130 madhabs(schools of thought) from the rationalist to the traditionalist to something in between, but unfortunately the Sunni Muslim scholars decided to ‘Close the Gates of Ijtihad’ which practically ended independent thinking, the Shia Muslims still practice ijtihad but only the Mullahs do that not the common people, the people are still obliged to follow them especially in Iran. But in other words the Ulema have commited intellectual suicide, the Muslim world were at the top of their game but for the last five hundred years there was almost no more decent scholars that were equal to Ibn Sina, Ibn Rushd etc, in the 1800s we did have Muhammad Iqbal but he was a philosopher and was not part of the Ulema, all we need to do is to reopen the gates of Ijtihad, if you guys want to look more into this please read ‘No god but God’ by Reza Aslan, Reza is a scholar of religions he teaches at Berkely and he’s a good scholar, other good thinking scholars are Jeffrey Lang andKhaled Abou El Fadl, these guys are very smart, they are Muslim scholars but they were never accepted by the Ulema because they think and interpret for themselves, I can give you guys links if you want.
    Salaam

  304. Assalamu Alaikum.
    I am so sorry that this topic is not straigtforward to muslims for the exception of Muhammad and Mir Ali Khan.JazakaAllah Khairan for your effort brothers.
    It is not permissible to keep a dog as a pet other than for the purpose of guarding a property or hunting as the Prophet [ s.a.w] said: “Whoever keeps a dog as a pet, except for the purpose of guarding a cattle or hunting, will lose a Qiraat (a huge portion of the reward from his good deeds) daily.”
    It is known that the impurity of a dog is a major impurity because the Prophet [ s.a.w ] said: “If a dog drinks in any container of yours, it is an obligation to wash it seven times, the first of which with soil.”
    Therefore, I am sorry to say if there is no necessity, it is not permissible for anyone to possess a dog.
    I would also like the people out there to know we are not saying dogs are to be despised or mistreated? Certainly not. Just because one does not keep a dog inside his home and doesn’t drink after it, doesn’t give him the right to neglect it, mistreat it or kill it. The usefulness of this creature of Allah is indisputable. No other animal can compete with it in its loyalty to its caregiver, its abilities as a guard and its talent for hunting.
    We must ensure that Muslims continue to be averse to dogs, even in the midst of what the kuffaar are used to do and what some Muslims have adopted of their habits.
    May Allaah bestow good on us. May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad.
    This is not to offend anyone but it is all facts.
    And Allah knows best.

  305. who cares, I am afraid you are not half as cute and furry and soft and cuddly as the dog, that’s why.
    Sorry. :mrgreen:

    Sarah, in the Malaki Madhab school the keeping of dogs as pets is allowed. so you cannot so easily claim that dogs are not allowed. I am not going to repeat 200 comments here, you can’t have read them or you wold not be so insistent to make claims which are not based on the Quran.
    especially the hadith (version) of ritual washing, that is the one by abu haraira who hated women and dogs and made up and changed hadith. the other people who reported this hadith do not metion ritual cleaning.
    Stop cherrypicking the worst of the ahdith and do research before you come out and tell other people what they can and cannot do.

    As dogs clearly were common in rthe time of the prophet, as can be seen by the fact that they lounged about in the mosque, drank from people’s bowl, people getting a free ticket to heaven when giving a dog water, and the dog being one of the party of blessed individulas in the sura of the cave, it seems to me there is no imitating kuffaar when keeping a dog as a muslim.
    These are the real facts.

    I sincerely hope all muslims will learn to stay clear and be averse to people like you and their incorrect reading of the quran, their cherrypicking of doubtful hadith, and the placing of them higher than the word of Allah.

  306. no its not taboo at all in Islam faith…just culture matter..arab ppl bread and own dogs and reaming up to today in pp who are bedu…moreover, a dog mentioned in the holly qurran in al Kahaff surra which the god tells a story about ppl had lived for a thousands of years while they were sleeping in cave it was a dog with them…..a dog is a very nice animal ever..a dog was and still with a human to help him like a hour or a camel..but in my modest opinion the life has changed from living in desert to cities there is no need to a dog in Saudi Arabia that is …because a dog is still a good mate in ppl who lives in a wild area ….that is it .. no more no less …by the way, i have been thinking to get a dog someday ..but i am not pretty sure about how much i can be cared to him? when i am being clear about caring of a dog i will get one cus i love a shepherd dog…..

  307. Aafke I am guessing you are not a muslim. I hope you may see the light one day soon. INSHAllah If you are a muslim then Let’s remind ourselves, that our Prophet (peace be upon him), the single most perfect man in history, had the following done to him
    People physically assaulted him.People threw stones at him.People threw dirty intestines on him whilst he was praying.People threw their dirty garbage on him Small children threw stones at him.
    Has someone ever thrown stones at you? Have you ever had dirty garbage thrown over your head?
    Yet somehow our aggressive reactions would lead someone to believe as if someone has actually done this? The way you are saying I am not cute or furry or cuddly listen is this your level of intelligence? Because I am no where similar to the footsteps of our beloved Prophet [s.a.w] and if he was humiliated in the ways I mention above then what you are saying is just sugar candy. I cannot praise Allah enough for the way he has created me.So note I do care to be cute and furry and soft and cuddly as a dog, as you put it..Astagfirullah.
    Allah Taãla created the dog from among His creation. This does not mean that we should love the dog. It is perhaps the indoctrination of the Western culture that ‘The dog is Man’s best Friend’. The theory that ‘dogs are very dependent on Human affection’ is a myth – again culture and custom has helped to develop this unnatural behavior.
    Sayyidna Abu Talha (Radhiyallaahu Ánhu) reports that Rasulullah (Sallallaaahu Álayhi Wasallam) said, “Angels do not enter a house wherein there is a dog or an animate picture.
    However, Jurists have stated that it is permissible to keep a dog for security purposes, farming and hunting.
    Still, the exception to the rule is: excessiveness must be avoided as much as possible. The care and concern for human beings should take higher priority over the care of animals, and the reward for that is greater.We will be able to understand this fact, when we notice that some people do pay a great deal of attention to their cats and dogs, at the expense of other things. It is better for Muslims to make the best use of their time in that which is beneficial and good. Some people spend more money on their cats and dogs, than they spend on their own sons and daughters! Then, let alone the poor and needy. They may even bring their pets to stay in luxurious hotels and bequeath large amounts of money to them.
    You see,fellow readers, going to extremes in showering dogs with love, concern and kindness, is what shari’a goes against, because there should be no collision between human rights and animal rights. Thus, in observing how lavishly the well-off treat their dogs while despising their relatives, and how much attention they give their dogs while neglecting their neighbors, one realizes the wisdom of the cautious approach the shari’a has towards this issue.
    From the medical point of view, which is our main concern here, the hazards to human health and life from keeping and playing with dogs are not to be ignored. Many people have paid a high price for their ignorance, as the tapeworm carried by dogs is a cause of chronic disease, sometimes resulting in death.
    This worm is found in man, in cattle, and in pigs. But it is found in fully developed form only in dogs, wolves and rarely in cats. These worms differ from others in that they are minute and invisible, consequently, they were not discovered until very recently.’
    So, dear people, in light of all these facts, I want to sum it up. You don’t need to worried about keeping your dog (within the necessities sanctioned by Islam, i.e. for protection or taken as watch dog) as long as you know the rights you owe it and as long as you know that your love for your dog must not affect your religious duties. .
    In ending I must say the issue of dogs is one of the most debatable issues in recent times,
    May Allah guide us to the truth. Ameen.

  308. Sarah, learn to read
    It really helps if you are honest about wanting truth.

  309. Mohammed, you are very wise, and I am happy that we are all sheperd-lovers :)

  310. I agree 100 % with Abu Sinan about your removal of the original pic. I think the Muslim world is in the state that it is precisely because of the moderates bowing to the nut jobs! I for one am very disappointed in your choice. I hope that the decision to remove the pic was just a temporary brain blip due to that ‘chemo brain’ you discussed before. I hope everything ends up back to normal after treatment is done.

  311. Sarah,

    It is a rather easy concept, and I say this as a Muslim. The hadith about dogs violate both the letter and the spirit of The Qur’an, hence they are untrue and invalid.

    At this point you have a choice, as a Muslim, to make. Either you follow man or you follow God. If you follow God then you’ll realise that The Qur’an trumps Hadith which are collected and passed on by men.

    If you follow man then you’ll continue to follow Hadith, even if they are invalid and go against The Qur’an.

    It is a VERY stark, but EASY choice to make. Man or God. At this point you are choosing man over God. Insha’Allah, you see the light and God gives you His hediya and you change.

  312. InshaAllah I pray that Allah guides me to the truth.
    Allah is the truth, His words are the truth, His Promise is the truth, the day we meet Him is truth, jannah (paradise) is truth, hellfire is truth, the Prophets are a truth and Prophet Muhammad (SAW) is a truth. Hence, we should glorify Allah because He is The Truth. Allah is the truth,
    ‘Subhaan-Allaah! Abu Sinan for saying I have chosen man over Allah. I beg that Allah forgive you and me for our shortcomings InshaAllah.
    Aafke thanks for pointing out I can’t read I really don’t feel bad because the greatest Prophet Muhammad s.a.w (peace and blessings be upon him) was an illiterate, knowing neither how to read or write, before the Glorious Qur’an started to be revealed to him. So who am I? :)

  313. an ignoramus, you started out with a lot more education as the prophet yet you still have not grasped the very first command of Allah Jibril gave to Mohammed.

  314. @Sarah

    If you get involved in this debate it will never end. So, I advise not to get into it and stay way from these SHARP MINDS who think like they know Islam well. Rather they are going opposite to the teachings of Quran and Hadiths.

    @ALL
    Sorry all you there but I just wanted to warn sister Sarah to not pollute her Deen debating with you.

  315. But you two allready have polluted your dean, you give preference to the word of men over the word of Allah.
    You put hadith over the Quran.
    You put hatred over love.
    You don’t study but slavishly follow doctrine devised by men.

  316. \hey Sami, want to see a very scared shivering German Sheperd? :mrgreen:
    Have a look on my blog!
    http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/2009/12/31/happy-2010-to-everybody/

  317. @Aafke, oh you are a witty girl!!!! And I have to tell you that I LOVE your equine art work…and that saddle was incredible!

  318. @Mohammad,

    When you put the words of men over the literal words of God then you have not only poluted the deen, you have step outside of the deen into shirk and polytheism.

    Hadith are NOT the word of God. If they go against The Qur’an they are FALSE! What is SO hard to understand against that.

    Putting Hadith above The Qur’an is a rejection of monotheism and the biggest sin in Islam.

  319. @Sarah,

    The Qur’an clearly has NO issue with dogs. God, in The Qur’an, even allows us as Muslims to eat food that has been in the mouth of a dog. The Qur’an makes it clear an angel was indeed in a dwelling with dogs.

    If you believe ANYTHING which goes against these facts you are guilty of disobidience to God. If you take the words of men over the words of God, you have committed shirk. It really is an easy concept.

    Your position in regards to dogs makes you reject The Qur’an in favour of a hadith which stands in opposition to both the word and spirit of The Qur’an.

    Rejecting God’s word for man’s word is the most serious of sins. I suggest you rethink your devotion to men, scholars or not, and come back to the words of God as expressed in The Qur’an.

  320. While especially for those who are not living in Saudi or having blogged and plan to blog again from Saudi, I realize I have to be careful. Too much “pushing the bar” can have implications not only to me, but to my Saudi husband who is an official. Family comes first with me, always will. I am glad to receive blog comments with differing views but also believe strongly, never do anything which could have fallout in a negative manner towards a family member.

  321. Salaam thanks Aafke for the link, Zora is a very pretty Shepherd and Happy New Year to everyone, being in California there’s still less than four hours left before the New Year reaches the West Coast. But anyway,Sarah, not all the scholars say that they’re unclean the Maliki school say dogs are pure, the Koran constantly tells us to use our reason(ijtihad), we do have scholarly support like Khaled Abou El Fadl, Jeffrey Lang, Reza Aslan,Tariq Ramadan another great scholar, Muhammad Asad, who made an extremely good interpretation of the Koran but its banned in Saudi Arabia for some reason, I guess because it doesn’t agree with the Wahabi’s puritannical interpretation, I live in California so, I have it and I see nothing wrong with it, anyway, I’m a practicing Muslim, and I see nothing wrong about having a dog, anyway the dog will serve a purpose for me being a devoted friend and also as a therapy for me, I don’t want to argue with you we have backup for our opinion and you have your opinion, let’s agree to disagree, a hadith says that differences of opinion is a blessing, and if you use your reason and turn out to be wrong you’ll still have reward for using your head, but if you turn out to be right you’ll have double reward, Muhammad Asad, the scholar I mentioned earlier he rejects Taqlid(blindly following the scholars) and promotes that people think for themselves as long as it doesn’t contradict the Koran (Ijtihad) first before seeking help not the other way around, I always took a more intellctual approach to the Koran, mind you I studied this issue for months before finally deciding that there’s nothing wrong with being a Muslim and having a dog, bottom line is God never condemned the dog, there depicted in a positive light, but I have a few articles if you want to look.
    http://www.scholarofthehouse.org/tloofesfaond.html
    http://www.scholarofthehouse.org/dinistrandna.html
    Well Happy New Year and take care,
    Sami

  322. Assalamu Alaikum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh …
    @Brother Mohammed.
    JazakaAllah Khairan for your kinds words of advice.I realise it was not getting anywhere but hope InshaAllah for the ones who are open-minded they would have learned the truth. Like yourself I wanted the truth be known for as you know the Messenger of Allah, sallallahu ‘alayhi wasallam, say:
    “When any one of you sees anything that is disapproved (of by Allah), let him change it with his hand. If he is not able to do so, then let him change it with his tongue. And if he is not able to do so, then let him change it with his heart, though that is the weakest (kind of) faith.”[MUSLIM]
    Brother Mohammed I have discovered over the course of a few years of learning this issue. There is nothing that impairs one’s religion, diminishes one’s respectability, ends one’s happiness, or preoccupies one’s heart like arguing.
    May Allah strengthen our faith and increase the fasting, reading Qur’aan and pratising the sunnah of Messenger of Allah, sallallahu ‘alayhi wasallam,
    I beg Allaah to guide us to that which is best in this world and the Hereafter. Ameen
    And Allaah is the Source of strength.

    @Carol
    I hope InshaALLAH that you are your husband are feeling much better I apologise for any problems that I may have caused .
    As a human being we will often make mistakes in our lives, both big and small.When we are within a group there will always the people to remind us of our wrong actions or correct our mistakes, as we also would do for others in the group.You have provided a platform where the people can publicly express their commonly held beliefs in what is right, and can work together to implement those right beliefs
    .Everything we say is being recorded in our actions and that one wrong word can take us to Hell Fire. Allah says in Soorah Qaf (50): 18: “Not a word he utters but there is a watcher by him ready (to record it).”
    So I end by asking everyone that I have offended their forgiveness .And Allah knows the truth on this very debatable topic.

  323. Salaam Sarah, to tell bottom line is that this issue is debatable, if it was mentioned in the Koran I wouldn’t argue, but it isn’t and so God will solve our disputes in the end and we’ll find out who was right and who was wrong but anyway, take care.

  324. @Sarah,

    “.Everything we say is being recorded in our actions and that one wrong word can take us to Hell Fire. Allah says in Soorah Qaf (50): 18: “Not a word he utters but there is a watcher by him ready (to record it).””

    Now you are getting the beauty of having a dog. Angels never enter a house that has a dog, hence no watchers.

  325. “.Everything we say is being recorded in our actions and that one wrong word can take us to Hell Fire.”

    Just ONE wrong word can land us in Hell? Now that God is not the God I wish to follow whether or not He allows us to have dogs or not. If it only takes ONE wrong word to land us in Hell…I dare say He’s an extremely nitpicky God…and obviously NOT very fogiving…and definitely NOT merciful. Damn!!!

  326. Okay so what I take from that verse that talks about one word landing us in hell is we have to be careful not to do wrong things. If we repeatedly say one word which we KNOW is wrong, whether we stumble others, or speak against God. and we never repent for that action, then we will be punished for it.

  327. I admit before hand I have not read all 350 comments, but about 50 of the last ones. I cannot imagine God first creates a loving loyal faithful animal (man’s best friend).
    And then commands his rather more unpleasant creation: men, to dispise and curse his creation.
    I agree there is nothing in the QURAN to give credence to the notion that dogs are haraam. And there is evidence that the dog is halal. Now the HADITH are different. The hadith are a chance for men who did not like details of the Quran to change them.

    MoQ has a good idea: You could go even further: You can live in two houses. The house of Ma’siah (sin) versus the house of Hasanat. (prayer) The house of Hasanat could be small, and the big house is where you live, you will have a lot of dogs in this house so no angels can record your sins. And then you can drink, gamble, have sex etc. as much as you want. And when you have the urge to do good, or pray, you go to the small house of Hasanat, where all you do will be recorded.
    If u follow a strict procedure: you will have all Hasanat and not even 1 Sin!!!!

  328. One thing I notice about radical religious people. They are always going on about being humble. Having an open mind. And mixing in as many Arabic expressions as they can. While in reality they are arrogant to the extreme, while having closed their minds to any form of critical or rational thinking, just blindly follow the scholars.
    And forgetting that HYPOCRISY is the worst sin in the eyes of Allah!

    @ Abu Sinan, I fully agree with you: if a hadith speaks against the Quran then there can be no discussion. The hadith is wrong.

  329. Well when it comes to Islamic law everyone acts like an imam they say ‘this is Islam’ and ‘Islam demands this’ instead of saying ‘in my opinion’ or ‘this issue has more than one opinion’, one thing is to not make things haram unless you have strong, compelling evidence for it. The Koran says God gives you many good things and you make things halal and haram, so in other words everything is permissable unless proven haram, not the other way around, it is the burden on the person to prove something is haram and if he can’t then its not haram, some scholars make so many things haram that you wonder what’s halal!

  330. Salaam mualakum everyone, well I think when it comes to Islam take it seriously and stick to the basics, be devout but don’t go over the top, stick to the five pillars of Islam because they are the pillars of our faith and avoid the things that are definetly bad (alcohol,pork,gambling,drugs,fornication etc), I think if people stick to those they should be fine, I highly doubt it having a dog and being a good Muslim would be that big of a deal, I feel I can have a dog as my best friend and be a practicing Muslim, I’m convinced there’s nothing wrong with a dog, it doesn’t effect my spiritual life,in fact, it actually helps.

  331. Salaam mualakum everyone, well I have some bad news today, my cousin’s Husky dog,Steel, died today, he was about 12 years old, he was getting old, he couldn’t walk anymore so they put him down. My cousin mourned for him, so I went to his house to support him, well I’ll miss him too,I used to love to play with him, he was very lively and the idea of him just collapsing was a shock to me, but I told him that its not a goodbye, its a see you later, in surah 6 verse 38 it says in the Koran that they will return to their Lord in the end, my cousin was going to turn 16 in two months and now he’s really sad today, but inshallah things will be better, I told him ‘you’ll see him later’. So I’ll talk to you guys later. Salaam

  332. @Sami,

    I very sorry on the loss of your cousin’s Husky and can tell by the way you wrote that Steel was a much loved member of the family. Mash’allah he had 12 long years for in people years I think that would equate to about 80 years old! I am confident that you will give your cousin the support and understand that he needs as he works his way through the loss of Steel.

  333. Salaam American Bedu, thanks for your support, if a person makes it to Paradise he/she can get what ever he or she desires, so if they want their pet that they had on Earth, God will give he/she to them, in the Koran it say you’ll have things in Heaven similar to what you had on Earth and so if you make it to Paradise all you have to do ask God to give you your long-lost friend or maybe he’ll already be there since God knows what you want.

  334. Salaam mualkum everyone well my cousin didn’t last long before they are already going to get another Husky I guess they really miss having Steel around, but yeah in about maybe a week or two they’re probably going to get another Husky.

  335. Sami, the ebst way to get over the loss of a pet is to get a new one. It sounds a bit callous, but it really helps the best.

    So when I get to heaven I am going to have a lot of horses and dogs there…..
    Together with all the angels….

  336. salaam, I’m am a muslim and don’t own a dog. they are akin
    to the gin or demonic world and i would not want any dogs keeping the
    angels out of my house !!!!!!
    The angels are the slaves of Allah.The believer who worships
    Allah and seeks His pleasure has no alternative but to regard
    the angels as friends, and to avoid anything that results in annoying or offending them, Hence angels do not enter places
    and houses where Allah is disobeyed. The angels do not enter
    a house in which there is a dog!!!

  337. “salaam, I’m am a muslim and don’t own a dog. they are akin
    to the gin or demonic world and i would not want any dogs keeping the
    angels out of my house !!!!!!”

    This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. First of all, this is a huge issue between my husband and I, I have read the Qu-ran and most of the Hadith and have NEVER read that anywhere. I have asked MANY muslims about this issue and NO ONE has ever said that, so wherever you are getting your information, you need to verify it with GOD first, before you just believe it!

  338. “The angels are the slaves of Allah.”

    One more thing….Don’t muslims believe that ALL animals are slaves of God?

  339. @Abu Bakr,

    Your words go against the very words of God Himself where he said that angels indeed visited dwellings with dogs in them. Not only that, God allows you to eat food that has been in their mouth.

    You, my friend, are allowing ignorance and your culture to trick you into thinking something is haram that isnt.

  340. Salaam If we are to perform Allah’s Ebaadah properly we must know exactly what it is and what it is not .Dogs are for hunting, and to protect .Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) never!! never!!
    had a “pet ” dog in his house!!!! and if you care to read the
    book THE WORLD OF THE NOBLE ANGELS
    In light of the Qur’an and Sunnah you will learn more about
    angels by ‘Umar s. al Ashqar

  341. Salaam well have you read Surah Al-Kahf(The Cave)? God blessed the sleepers of the cave and they were true believers and a dog was sleeping in the cave with them, the Maliki school of thought is fine with dogs, they say they are pure, Imam Malik argued this saying in the Koran it says as Abu Sinan says that you can have what they catch for you therefore if food caught by a dog is clean than the dog is clean. Another thing, historical context matters, back then there was no medicine for rabies or anything like that and people were not as hygenic as they are now. Nowadays we have vaccines for rabies and we are able to keep the dogs clean, and in the US for example dogs weren’t popular as pets until a hundred years ago, before that people were farmers and needed the dogs for survival like the Arabs of the desert in the 7th century needed them, nowadays we live much more comfortable lives and dogs are still useful in so many ways, its true some people go overboard but you have that in every group or interest but still, Imam Malik of his time had no problem with dogs in the 9th century and so he probably wouldn’t have a problem with it today in the 21st century, times have changed my friend, and I don’t see anything about having a dog as interfering with my spiritual life, I pray five times a day, fast and so on what more you want from us?

  342. looking from outside – as a no-muslim, i keep thiking, ” They can’t agree on somethig as simple as IS a dog allowed as a pet”, without sending half the mulim population to hell , what hope do muslims have of explaining this beautiful religion to the rest of us…

    none , none at all, i may not be muslim but i’m married to one and even I can kind of separate the cultural vs religious stuff… really doesn’t speak much about your understanding of the kora does it….
    As for the person who wants a dog, go ahead , get one , love it, taking care of life – even a dog will never displease any god let alone allah.

  343. It is interesting how those who claim that dogs are haram are FORCED to go to something besides The Qur’an to try and prove it.

    They claim, as Abu Bakr did above, that dogs are akin to demons, yet they cannot find such a claim in God’s own words! Yet, I can show how God says one can eat food that has been in the mouth of a dog, I can prove that angels CAN be in places where dogs are at, despite their attempts to say otherwise.

    The simple fact is, there is NO case to be made against dogs using the words of God. Everything that is used to justify this position on dogs is passed on by words of men and these words violate both the word and the spirit of The Qur’an.

    I have said this a million times here, but if you think dogs are haram in Islam then you are substituting the views of man for God and ignoring His words.

    Even the hadith are contradictory about this. Some say Mohammad killed dogs, others say he granted heaven to a prostitute for giving water to a thirsty dog.

    When hadith make no sense and contradict each other it is time to head to the word of God to see where He comes out. In the case of dogs, He comes out 100% on the side of the dogs.

  344. So someone tell me please if this “Umar s. al Ashqar” was a prophet or even close to one? Did God tell us to listen tot his man? I know of a few verses int he bible where it talks about false prophets and people believing them as if their words came from God himself…could this be one of those examples?

  345. I would love to have a dog- but am fortunate to be able to travel a lot, and don’t think it would be fair to have pets. That said, I “inherited” three feral kittens- so we have cats.

    Two things about how Muslims in general practice has never made sense to me. How inspite of telling people there is no “clergy” practically speaking there is. And this “clergy” is allowed to make rulings where the Quran is twisted and turned so that it can match some questionable Hadith.

    The second is the equating of Hadith with Sunnah. They are not the same thing. Hadith is merely a possible source of Sunnah. Not Sunnah itself. Between these two practices, patriarchal, tribal and supersticious beliefs and behaviors become part of Islam. Well, I refuse to go along with it.

  346. [...] a somewhat related post on American Bedu blog on dog ownership, Saudi Arabia, and [...]

  347. [...] was a unique Saudi in so many different ways.  Dogs continue to be a controversial subject within Islam and in Saudi Arabia on whether it is halal [...]

  348. [...] was a unique Saudi in so many different ways.  Dogs continue to be a controversial subject within Islam and in Saudi Arabia on whether it is halal [...]

  349. Dogs are controversial because we still have too many muslims who wants to follow everything by the book as long as it suits them.
    They pick on small subjects like dogs, alcohol and keeping women in veils because it makes their life easier. Everyone are talking abt saudis as if they are the pinnacle of Islam…they are not…in fact most of them are probably the worst example of Islam…just because they have the Kaba in their country doesent make extra special. What wud have made them special is if they cud share some of the wealth they make from Hajj amongst other muslims. What wud make them special is instead of buying gold cars and sending their kids to american unis is if they could build a good university themselves and offer other muslims some education. If they could stop torturing people who work there from Bangladesh, Malaysia, Indonesia and treating them like semi human beings.
    DOGS?? Dogs are beautiful creatures and the reason angels do not come into a house with a dog is not because Dogs r dirty or the devils animal but its because most dogs r kept in a house to protect it and therefore angels dont come to protect it and therefore it shows that u dont have enuf faith that Allah will defend u butif u keep dogs as a pet it shud be fine. No this is not a fact, this is my opinion.

    There are more problems in Islam then whether dogs are allowed or not and a lot od muslims treat cats like little gods because the Prophet liked cats. He liked cats thats his personal taste….loving cats more then other animals wont grant u extra favors in the afterlife.
    Saudis dont have to worry abt dogs in their home but the dog that is inside them. Its one of the most racist nation in the world like most other arabs whereas the good muslims think they r special cause Kaba is there.

    The reason most of historys prophets appeared in the Middle East is because they are the worst lot of the human race and they need God more then any1.

    I dont hate arabs by the way but I do have my reservations abt them. Islam invented democracy and saudis stll follow monarchy and some of those arabs who did try to oppose was killed off. Saudis need to worry abt a lot graver sins then whether dogs r halal or haram cause compared to some of them dogs r angels.

  350. The idea of not contacting dog saliva and having to wash if you do probably stems from an ancient recognition (but without a realisation of why) that it could harbour rabies in an infected dog. Today we are capable of controling this and immunising dogs so properly done the whole thing falls apart.

  351. @Mohammed

    Muhammed; the point your making is that authentic hadeeth complies with the Quran. This is fine — follow the quran; follow the hadeeth if it complies with the Quran .

    BUT! you are missing the point. the PARTICULAR.. hadeeth on owning dogs is NOT AUTHENTIC_ and CONTRADICTORY to the Quran.

    This is all what they’re saying. There would definitely have been authentic hadeeth; but much of this would have been skewed by the time taken to record it–IN PARTICULAR the ones concerning dog ownership. –> example black dogs are satan <– this is not what complies with the Quran., there is a hadeeth like this but it is probably not authentic . there fore disregard it.

    others concern prayer. alot of these DO comply with the Quran. there fore it is probably authentic.

  352. @King Kong

    how true.. the only REAL muslims to have lived in saudi were the prophets of GOD. Everyone else is basically convert and children of converts. which is also why when I hear people getting mad that a christian priest uses the term Allah instead of God in indonesia i find it amusing. In the end we are all humans and all creatures are God’s Creations. Muslims don’t need to be arab or have names like mohammed.

    They have to follow the Quran.

  353. but the part about it being the most racist nation in the world….

    USA is famous for KKK,anti black, anti jew, anti hispanic, anti native american, anti east european, anti communist, anti asian, anti muslim, anti arab, and the list goes on..

    as i said.. We are all humans ; geography doesn’t affect mentally that much.

  354. My name is Amir. I am a Muslim. I have 2 rotweillers. They are such a wonderful creature. They are allowed to move freely as they wished. But they are well trained. My interpretation of keeping them is based STRICTLY on the Quran. They are afterall ALLAH’s creatures.

  355. My name is Aiman and I am a Muslim, and i am from Malaysia. i had just recently adopted a Lab Mix Breed puppy that was found by another Muslim friend abandoned at a nearby shop near her place. Alhamdulillah, my parents are very supportive with my decision to give shelter to the puppy but i do realize that a lot of other people are not comfortable with the idea of me owning a dog. As a Muslim, i do understand the practical reason of the Hadith forbidding us to have a dog inside the house, it is not hygienic as mention in the article above. potty training alone is a headache for me as my pup is still peeing all around the house, and the fact that dogs are naturally carriers of tapeworm, but other than that i don’t understand why other Muslims are so anti dogs. i hope other people will come to realize that as a Muslim, our responsibility is to be good to not only to other Muslim, but also other people regardless of their race and religion; and also to be good to all other living creature as mentioned in the Qur’an, and teachings of Muhammad.

  356. Muhammad made strange and harsh statements about dogs and these edicts affect dogs in a tragic way.

    STATEMENTS FROM THE HADITH
    Abu Dawud #2839
    The Hadith’s note for #2839 says, “The prophet did not order the killing of all the dogs, for some are to be retained for hunting and watching. He ordered to kill the jet black ones. They might be more mischievous among them.

    Muslim Number 3815:
    Ibn Umar reported Allah’s Messenger as saying: He who keeps a dog other than that meant for watching the herd or for hunting loses every day out of his deeds equal to two qirat.

    Bukhari Vol. 1, #490
    Narrated ‘Aisha: “The things which annul the prayers were mentioned before me. They said, “Prayer is annulled by a dog, a donkey and a woman (if they pass in front of the praying people).” I said, “You have made us (i.e. women) dogs. I saw the Prophet praying while I used to lie in my bed between him and the Qibla. Whenever I was in need of something, I would slip away, for I disliked to face him.”

    many many again about dogs impurity in Qoran and hadith, check this: http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/dogs.htm.

    Bukhari, Abu Dawud and Muslim Hadith are trusted hadith for muslims. No muslim can deny that. I live in muslim country btw and my mom is muslim.

    But muslim allow to help stray dog (give the dog water to drink) as long as they dont break the rules above.

    I am curious what happened between Muhammad and dogs? Maybe a black dog hurted him once and he wanted to take revenge?
    I dont know, just curious :D.

  357. I am Muslim, just adopted a dog by accident…

    I live in Malaysia where most Malays regard dogs are satans regardless of the dogs’ color. Many people here abuse and neglect dogs in horrifying, indescribably ways.

    I found this dog begging for food and water around my neighborhood so we’ve been feeding it on the street whenever we pass by. One night we heard a loud yelping for a long time and rushed out at 3am to find the dog being attacked by a pack of 6 other stray dogs. He was bloodied up, can’t barely respond to us, wouldn’t get up because he could not walk. We decided to bring him home and took him to the vet in the morning.

    We love animals and we consider ourselves rescuers. We carry cat food, dog food, paper bowls (more eco friendly) and water in our car so we can feed the strays. We don’t have a big house, but we currently have 14 cats and 4 kittens that we have rescued and some we are trying to rehome but find it hard to find good owners so far.
    Now my neighbor are complaining about the dog sitting on our porch. My family would probably disown me if I tell them about the dog. And I am desperately trying to find reassurance that what I did, in rescuing the dog and providing him shelter on my porch and garden, food and water is not haram.

    I would like to bring the dog into the house. Mainly because I feel sorry about him being alone, and sometimes during stormy rains he gets very cold. It would also make my neighbor happy, not having to see the dog around.

    Anyone care to give me some advice?

  358. Or rather, my real question is… what should one do, under Islam, if the dog has no where to go, and cannot fend for itself?

  359. I’m not an expert on this topic but I believe if a Muslim takes in a dog that is unable to fend for itself and needs caring that the Muslim would “earn extra credit” for doing a noble act.

  360. @American Bedu: Thank you for your reply. I am not looking for credit nor commendation but I do agree that the act of compassion to helpless animals, be it dog or cat or other, should be something good in Islam. I’ve been researching on this dog issue for a while, and I just don’t see why most Muslims still think these lovable creatures deserve misery and suffering. I am trying to understand but I just can’t see it. Especially from an animal rescuer’s point of view. I’ve met people who were impressed when I tell them about a cat I rescued after it got hit by a car, but when I mention the dog, they show disgust on their faces. I just don’t understand.

  361. I know when I worked on a story for Saudi TV about animals I learned that dogs were becoming more and more popular as pets in Saudi (for Saudis).

  362. I am a muslim i love dog actually im going to adopt 1 dog today

  363. Now this is what I like about AmBedu. Out of nowhere a comment on a post from 2009. You never know what Carol is going to write, and you never know that someone will pull from the archives.

    So I have this theory that Saira googled “dogs and Islam” and ended up here.
    So let me see…

    https://www.google.com/search?q=muslims+dog&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&sclient=psy-ab&q=islam+dog&pbx=1&oq=islam+dog&aq=f&aqi=g1g-c2g1&aql=&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=460599l462621l0l463254l6l6l0l0l0l0l273l902l2.2.2l6l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=1bed005fa2f92587&biw=1219&bih=756

    Yep, first page, about half way down.

  364. So I google American Bedu + crazy people and viola, pronto – there I am 3 entries down.

    So, what has it been, about 5 years here? Seems like yesterday.. Carol, When did you start blogging? Is there a chronological archive?

  365. Aw, how sweet that Google has you noted as a crazy person, Jay! :D

  366. The earliest post I see on this blog is from October 24, 2007. I found it on the Monthly Archive on the right hand side.

  367. @Jay – stay tuned for February 17.

  368. CF, will do. I have no idea what it is, but I hope you are giving away free trips to resort destinations, all expenses paid, to your 12 oldest readers. I go back to 2007 I think so I probably qualify. I think my first post were was about Evil Bears (after some limited research). As usually I was my harsh rough self.

    Susanne, I looked it up also and there were some posts under the ‘dehli4cats’ identity (actually a CIA codename for Carol in ‘wet operations’) that go back to 2006. Really I am getting worried about you – as I poke around the internet (mostly middle east-type blogs and forums) I keep finding ‘Susanne430′. She obviously has no life but then again what would a freckled redhead know about life except to stay out of the sun, and maybe not even that? Speaking of CIA operations, I could also ask what became of Susanne 429?

    Let me see, what happens on the 17th? Are you coming to Phoenix? An interview with Lynn on harmony and friendship? Announcing that you are joining the Church of Scientology? You have found a boyfriend? Is it the 1 year thing for the Arab Spring? You have discovered a cure for baldness? You have made peace with Chiara? UFOs in your backyard? AA is giving up horses and now will dedicate herself to llamas? Carbrosha (?) (one of your earliest commenters, believer it or not) has announced that she will henceforth wear only togas? Harry is really an Imam pretending to be anti-Muslim? Azad is getting a second wife? An interview with Omar Shariff?

    OK I give up!!!

  369. Your comment amused me greatly, Jay, especially as you suggested what might happen on 2/17! Oh, I think Carol had some MySpace blogs that she moved over here. I thought she went back farther than October 2007 so the archives were misleading. Sorry about that.

    Yeah, I have no life…you got that right. :) I think I found a bunch of Middle Eastern blogs from following people who have commented here. I didn’t get interested in blogs at all until my Syrian friend found me in late 2007. Since then…I guess you should be worried. :)

    When I joined WordPress, “Susanne” was already taken so I used my birthday to distinguish myself. Thus the 430.

  370. Jay,

    I am going to designate you the official recorder of American Bedu finest moments as I have a hunch you are going to be great in this position!

  371. I really have a big concern, I am a Muslim, and I want to own a dog, for fun ofcourse, but where I live is too hot for the dog to sleep outside, however, outside our house we have a portacabin, which nobody uses, so first question.

    1)Am I allowed to own a dog as a pet for fun?

    2)Am I allowed to keep in a portacabin?

  372. Hello, I’m a Muslim from Indonesia. i used to have a dog when i was in primary school. eventually i went to an Islamic primary school in Jakarta. i told others in my primary school that i kept a dog and they didn’t think that it was a problem. i loved my dog very much and i was very sad when an unknown person poisoned my dog.

    very good post, Americanbedu, wish u can make better posts! Love for all from Indonesia

  373. I am a muslim and I own a dog. D views and opinions if scholars differ on d issue of dogs. I think it boils down to d individual at d end of d day. I keep my dog outside and don’t let it into d house. I also clean my clothes if he licks them b4 I pray. Thanks for this blog.

  374. I am a muslim and very religious but I have 3 beautiful dogs whom I adore ….If somebody wants to open his/her heart and eyes he can find God in dog’s eyes . You see faith,pure love ,pure affection in them. what is better than this ?
    Those days that there was no hygine people were concenred about dogs and their saliva …but not now.
    Nowadays dogs and even keeping them inside the house help to have a healthy life .

    God never creates something bad ….bad is in our mind …!

  375. talk about living in the past, what a bunch of lunitics. no pets, women can’t do this women can’t do that, merely a society of idiots. thats right idiots each and every one of them.

  376. as i observe the cultures of middle eastern life, one thing becomes obviously clear. the men of middle eastern countries are savages. their way of life is so out-dated is bizzare. what is so wrong with allowing women the right to vote,drive,divorce,and ofcourse the stupidest rule is forcing women to cover their faces, what a fucking joke. don’t the men of middle eastern countries want to look at a pretty women, does that make middle eastern men gay or just plain old weird? you choose. instead of sending a criminal to prison for a couple of month’s they would rather whip that same criminal 80 or 90 times in public. does that make them savages? ofcourse it does. dogs and cats are not allowed, yes thats right dogs and cats. these laws are coming from the same idiots that fly planes into buildings and blow themselves up in the name of islam. so this notice goes out to all sane persons living in the middle east. move to a country where you can have a glass of wine, walk your dog, question the government, show your face in public, and have all the freedoms that a law abiding citizen enjoy’s.

  377. salamaat and RAMADAN KAREEM. hope you find this blog article useful to the subject of dogs and islam: http://www.seekingilm.com/archives/118

  378. I have red that siberian husky has a wolf like features because they have wolf blood. If so wouldnt that make them a wolf-dog? And a wolf-dog counts as a wolf right? And it is okay to keep it in home because they are not fully dogs right?

  379. @ suraya:

    actually ALL dogs are descended from the wolf. a dog is just a domesticated version of a wolf. so, wolves and dogs can indeed mate with each other. someone who owns a dog is really owning a domesticated wolf. as for owning an actual wolf, they are not a good idea to keep as pets as they do not have the same domestic features as dogs and do cause problems. there has been intense research (primarily in eastern europe) that shows that wolves do not make good pets, so, hopefully nobody gets any ideas of owning a wolf or else it will end up being a bad idea for both the owner and the wolf. huskies make great dogs, but they do require a lot of activity as they were bred to be working dogs. so, anyone who wants to own a husky better give it enough activity every day or else they get anxious and may ‘act out’ and cause the owner problems. some people want to own dogs without realizing their needs. each breed of dog was bred for a particual purpose and function, and a good dog owner will research the breed they want to bring home to understand what its needs and health issues are so that the owner and the dog can have a satisfied and happy life together without problems.

  380. since the link i provided above no longer exists, you may wish to view this instead from Muslim Bridges: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6E86C77292FB0E0A

  381. I hear what you are saying Shereen, but it is hard to imagine a chihuahua being a descendant of the wolf! (smile)

    On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 11:48 AM, American Bedu

  382. @ American Bedu:

    yeah, i know what you mean (but do you have any idea what a chihuahua’s temperment is? my! my!). well, genetics doesn’t lie, and while humans have bred quite a few remarkable species (eg, grass to corn, etc), the dog is arguably human’s most ambitious genetic experiment with so many breeds. the dog is the only animal on earth that has the widest range in characteristics.

    in the first half of the 20th century, russians carried out an experiment with a fox species (they wanted a tamer version for fur-farming) and the experiment was quite extraordinary: it showed just how many generations it took to get a tame, domesticated breed from the wild version. not only did temperment change, but so did the physical characteristics, which were very dog-like and very very appealing to humans (eg, curled tail, lighter fur colors, droopy ears, etc). it is believed the same exact thing happened to the wolf to turn it into the domesticated dog, and humans just never looked back. we have bred so much variety since the early strains.

    absolutely fascinating natural history. if you ever get a chance to watch some PBS and NatGeo programs on the history of dogs, i highly recommend that you do. nature is great and God/Allah (swt) is Awesome!

  383. …by the way, i am not joking whan i say that EVERY SINGLE DOG ON EARTH is descended from the wolf. that is a biological fact.

  384. Reblogged this on The Saudi Expat podcast and commented:
    This was brought to our attention via a great listener. I certainly learned more and have a better understanding of the dog situation in Islam!

    thanks!

  385. Hi I am Muslim. As a Muslim I would love to have a dog as a pet. However as indicated by God it is forbidden to keep 1 as a pet. I wish to follow. What the writer has written is true. That it is we are not allowed to touch the wet parts of the dog. I am also an undergraduate in Biomedical Science. I relate my studies to the dog and made an assumption that why we aren’t allowed to touch a dog is because they like to sniff things around. No matter how hard you clean a place there will still be bacterial cells and this cells will be lodged in the dog’s respiratory system in particular nose and mouth. Bacteria grow optimally at body temperature in dark and moist places. Thus they will grow in the dog’s nose. The mucus and drool will have plenty of bacteria. Although 1 might say they can clean the dog, a dog’s nostrils is very deep and cannot be fully cleaned properly. And it only takes bacteria 1 night to populate it again. So Muslims are encouraged to be hygienic and thus this is my assumption on why a dog’s wet parts are not to be touched. However we must be kind to every animal in this world for God gave them specific purposes in this world. Only God knows best.

  386. Waw, Mohamed, you are planning to be a scientist? Then you should start to think like a scientist. You should not start with a preconceived idea and then try to fit, or make up facts to match your preconceived ideas.

    And you should try and actually read the Quran, because it doesn’t say anywhere that you can’t have a dog.

    And, as a budding medical ”scientist” you should know this of course, but I don’t mind informing you: The human mouth is just as obnoxious a cesspool of yukkie bacteria as a dog’s mouth, so I hope you will never kiss another human. Ever.

  387. assalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuh, mohamed riaz maricar. yes, i have a phd in immunology and i am a virologist, so, i, too, understand biomedical sciences. we can always brag about our professional background, but that is not the point. you say you are a biomedical student, but what you wrote indicates you are not close to being an informed and logical scientist who uses evidence. in the sciences AND in islam, we must always use evidence–whether we like it or not, we are not allowed to ignore the data or the evidence. it is not about what we personally like or not like, we must accept the data/evidence when it is presented, whether in the natural sciences or in religion/islam. please go back and read the qur’an (if you sincerely claim to be a muslim) and read the following:

    “You shall not utter lies with your own tongues stating: ‘This is halal (lawful), and this is haram (unlawful)’, to fabricate lies and attribute them to God. Surely, those who fabricate lies and attribute them to God will never succeed.” 16:116

    “…they ask you as to what is allowed to them. say: the good things are allowed to you, and what you have taught the beasts and birds of prey, training them to hunt– you teach them of what Allah has taught you–so eat of that which they catch for you and mention the name of Allah over it; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is swift in reckoning…” 5:4 <——–in this verse, it is agreed upon that the beasts of hunting are dogs; so, dogs are allowed to hunt prey for muslims and we CAN EAT what they catch with their mouth.

    also, keep in mind that there are MANY false hadiths about dogs, so, you must do your research (as any good scientist/muslim should) to know which are considered authentic by the scholars and which are not. just because they are listed in books of hadith does NOT mean they are considered automatically sahih, you need to research more deeply to find out. you should read the following writing: http://www.seekingilm.com/archives/118

    also, you have not provided any evidence for your claim that dogs are haram to keep or that their saliva/mucus is impure. in fact, there is a difference of opinion on this. there are 4 surviving schools of thought in islam (maliki, hanbali, shafi'i, and hanafi). i can't remember now off the top of my head which school issued which fatwa, but you should know that:

    1. one madhab ruled that both the fur and saliva of a dog are impure;
    2. another madhab ruled that NEITHER the fur nor saliva of the dog is impure;
    3. a third madhab ruled that the fur is clean but that the saliva is impure;
    4. the last madhab was split–half of this madhab ruled that the saliva is impure while the other half ruled that it was not.

    so, this means that there is NO consensus on this issue from the madhabs, but that the evidence is weaker for the 1st ruling above and stronger for the 2nd ruling above.

    once again, my dear brother, if you are going to call yourself a student of the biomedical sciences AND a muslim, then you need to abide by the rules of evidence. furthermore, if you really want to stay healthy, you need to stay away–far away–from other human beings. you will get very very sick from other human beings before you get sick from another animal. <:-\ i strongly urge you to do more research on this topic, if you are inclined to the truth.

    and Allah(swt) knows best. wa assalam.

  388. salamaat again. one should be made aware that the popular hadith relaying how angels do not enter a house with a dog in it was considered UNANIMOUSLY fake, or apocryphal, by ALL four madhabs. it is unfortunate that most muslims still cite this hadith when it was not conisered hadith for ~1,000 years, or so.

    also, in regards to owning a dog, please do not forget surat al-kahf:

    “…And you would think them awake, while they were asleep. And We turned them to the right and to the left, while their dog stretched his forelegs at the entrance. If you had looked at them, you would have turned from them in flight and been filled by them with terror.

    …They will say there were three, the fourth of them being their dog; and they will say there were five, the sixth of them being their dog – guessing at the unseen; and they will say there were seven, and the eighth of them was their dog. Say, [O Muhammad], “My Lord is most knowing of their number. None knows them except a few. So do not argue about them except with an obvious argument and do not inquire about them among [the speculators] from anyone.” ” –sura 18

    and Allah(swt) knows best. wa assalaam.

  389. As I said I am a student. I am someone in the process of learning. Furthermore I never made it a fact. I only said it is my assumption. I too wish to own a dog but majority of the ppl in my country claims that Muslims are not allowed to touch their wet parts. I also indicated they cannot be kept as pets but I never disagreed with the fact that they can be used for farming or hunting. Yes it is my fault for not researching properly but I never made it a point that my answers were correct. I said it is my assumption. God knows best. I welcomed to being corrected. But this can wait for me. There are much more important things I have to learn compared to this like being less arrogant to someone who is less knowledgeable than me. After all what’s the point of being so smart being a scientist or having a doctorate but you don’t have the right attitude in teaching your fellow brother. All that knowledge can be used for good but if you haven’t got the right attitude, nobody would listen to you. Making you simply useless.

  390. Shereen, good comments.

    Mohamed, Angels visit the cave with the sleepers and the dog so not only does Allah have no problem with dogs, neither do the angels.
    It doesn’t say anywhere in the Quran that dogs are haraam, so there is no need to imagine you know what god thinks, if what you think god thinks isn’t in the Quran then you should be humble enough to realize that and to amend your assumptions. And nobody knows so any ruling, and interpretation of a hadith against dogs is only an interpretation based on personal prejudice and not supported by the Quran.

  391. mohammed, this is what you wrote in your post above:

    “However as indicated by God it is forbidden to keep 1 as a pet.”

    so, you wrote this as if it were indeed fact. it is not a fact. nowhere does God indicate that it is forbidden to keep a dog as a pet. so, you made a false statement. who is being arrogant here? i think the one who says a kidaba with their lisan about our deen is the one who is acting arrogantly.

    also, you wrote in your 2nd post that you did not disagree that dogs can be used for hunting…?…now you are contradicting yourself, since you claimed in your 1st post that we cannot touch the wet parts of dogs. well, when a dog hunts for human consumption, the wet part is touching the food that the human will eat. so, the wet part of the dog cannot be impure if we can eat what they catch for us with their wet mouth. (i strongly recommend you read the link i provided in my post above, if you are at all curious and interested.)

    i only made my phd a point b/c you made your education a point. one’s biomedical education does not make one an expert in the field of islamic jurisprudence–that was my point, but apparently it was not clear enough. just b/c you are a biomedical student does not mean you know the facts about this issue. that’s the point i was trying to make.

    you also wrote–several times now–that you made assumptions about the issue of owning a dog. any student of science and any sincere muslim knows that assumptions are very very wrong and bad. please, do not make assumptions in the future about your profession or about your deen. <—–this is exactly why our umma is so messed up, unfortunately. <:-( (and why i am very upset at my fellow muslims for their continued ignorance.)

    also, keep in mind that muslims get very sick after or during hajj. every single year, our hajjis return home and are sick for ~2 weeks straight. they are always coughing for weeks after they return from hajj. there are no dogs in mecca. so, once again, if a person wants to stay healthy, they should avoid other people. it amazes me how people/muslims want to claim dogs are unhygenic and can spread disease when we actually get sick from each other much more. as a biomedical student, you will learn (insha'Allah) many interesting things about human disease. biomedical science is fun. =:-)

    it's good that you acknowledge you don't know the facts. that is always the best way to begin to search for truth. i wish you the best, my brother.

    wa assalaam.

  392. if anyone is interested in a scholarly article about dogs in islam, check this out (be warned, it is a very academically-written article):

    http://www.scholarofthehouse.org/dinistrandna.html

  393. speaking of biomedical sciences, it is the chicken that threatens humanity with the next influenza pandemic–not dogs. so, if one wants to make an argument that dogs make people sick, i guess that means we need to stay away from chickens–a halal meat–since they will kill us with the next influenza outbreak. <:-\

    and Allah(swt) knows best. wa assalam.

  394. The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated —- Mahatma Gandhi

  395. Shereen,

    Brilliant. As a fellow scientist, I read your replies three times. A voice of reason!

    But Mohamed, good luck either way. Be kind to the dog, take care of him, be merciful and patient with him, and I believe you will have nothing to fear from God for wanting to extend your love and admiration to one of his amazing creatures.

  396. Shereen thanks for entering the conversation with a fresh breeze of rationality.
    Thanks for the link.

    It is the ultimate in hubris to imagine one knows what god is thinking, and then using that to tell others what to think.

  397. Oh, also, in case it wasn’t clear, please, for the love of God, never try to wash out a dog’s nose or otherwise eradicate a part of them of all bacteria. Just relax. Tons of people in the world own dogs and wash them–what–once a month? We’ve survived splendidly.

  398. salamaat.

    i think i should correct/clarify myself regarding the consensus on saliva. based on what each madhab ruled, the consensus on saliva is that it is impure (since the majority rulings came to that conclusion), and the minority ruling is that it is not, so, one can say that there is a negative consensus on dog saliva; but one should look at the arguments for each side used by our pre-modern/classical jurists in order to come to one’s own conclusion.

    on the biomedical side of things, immunocompromised individuals–especially pregnant women–should stay away from cat feces due to the presence of Toxoplasma gondii. it is possible for people to gain natural immunity from this pathogen, but if a woman especially has never been around cats (or cat feces) before, then she is vulnerable when exposed to cat feces when pregnant. so, for all the muslim cat owners out there, you should be aware of the danger present in owning a cat. (i love cats and have been around them since i was a newborn, so, this is not meant to be an anti-cat statement.)

    as for the topic on opinions that people have about dogs (or about anything else, for that matter, including nikab), i am a pretty religious person (not perfect, but devout). i worship 5X a day, wear the hijab, observe ramadan and zakat, and hopefully will undertake hajj one day, insha’Allah. i accept rulings on issues that are based on sound evidence, especially made by our pre-modern/classical jurists. what irks me is when someone makes a claim about islam that is simply not substantiated by any sound evidence. i think it’s ok for an individual to state “i personally think…”, but it becomes problematic when someone states “islam/God says…” without having any evidence to back up that claim. it’s very sad that modern-day muslims are so ignorant of their own muslim history that they do not know what has been ruled as sahih and what has been ruled as not sahih. our rich heritage of islamic jurisprudence seems all but completely lost and has been replaced by “sheikhs” who ignore the evidence from our past in order to establish their own agenda, or are themselves completely ignorant of it. this is what has kept muslims in our own dark ages.

    i suspect that modern-day muslims would be shocked to know how the first-generation and pre-modern muslims lived their lives according to a more pure/original interpretation of islam. i dare say that some modern-day muslims might call our muslim predecessors, from the golden age of islam, ‘kafireen’ (istaghfer’Allah).

    if a muslim wants to live his/her life according to a certain way, then that’s fine; but then they should not impose it on other muslims, especially when they do not have evidence, or they have weak evidence, to back up their claims. as God reminds us throughout the qur’an, God will in the end tell us of what we have been arguing/disagreeing over. so, we should just agree to disagree until judgement day when God will correct and clarify for us.

    and Allah(swt) knows best. wa assalaam.

  399. OK, I know I already complimented you, shereen, but at the risk of sounding creepy, I want to have your comment printed out and framed in our house so that my husband has to see it every day, or cross-stitched into a pillow.

  400. hi, TE. yeah, that does sound a bit creepy, at least to someone who is not narcissistic. =:-) i appreciate your point, but i think what would be even better (since this isn’t about me) is to check out the following sources of information on islamic jurisprudence. i have learned much valuable knowledge from dr. khaled abou el-fadl–may Allah(swt) reward him in this life and in the hereafter–ameen:

    * The Authoritative and the Authoritarian in Islamic Discourses (i believe there is an arabic version of this book)

    * Speaking in God’s Name: Islamic Law, Authority, and Women (excellent source of history about islamic jurisprudence, aka, fiqh)

    * Conference of the Books: The Search for Beauty in Islam

    * http://www.scholarofthehouse.org/ <——-many articles, DVDs, books, etc.

    if i have made any mistakes in my posts above, i ask Allah(swt) for forgiveness; any good that comes out of my posts is from God, Almighty.

    wa assalaam.

  401. Ha, I know–this is what arguing with a conservative Saudi man every day has done to me!

    Thank you very much for the resources. I’ll be sure to check them out, and, more importantly, to make him check them out.

  402. It is my understanding that a “majority” is not the same thing as a “consensus”. A “consensus” being a much more difficult thing to achieve.

  403. hi, sandy. well, i am going by the common definition of consensus (as presented at dictionary.com):

    noun, plural con·sen·sus·es.
    1. majority of opinion: The consensus of the group was that they should meet twice a month.
    2. general agreement or concord; harmony.

    based on this definition, a majority is a consensus. i was basically using the word ‘consensus’ to mean ‘not unanimous’. however, i do not know if ‘consensus’ means something else in islamic jurisprudence/fiqh.

    wa assalaam.

  404. It’s my understanding it means everyone in agreement. I can’t remember the exact wording of the hadith but something along the lines of “all my people won’t agree on something that is wrong”. At least that’s how I remember it. And I have seen groups of scholars disagree with another- declare him outside of Islam- and then claim a consensus. If it was just a majority no need to claim someone is out of the faith.

  405. one would have to confirm this with a professional, but if everyone is in agreement, that would be a unanimous decision or ruling; a majority decision is a consensus, based on the english definition that i am going by. i do not know what he word for ‘unanimous’ is in arabic.

    no jurist has the right to declare any other jurist (or anyone else) as ‘out of the faith’. my understanding is that it is haraam for any muslim to judge or condemn anyone else (including non-muslims), since only God knows who is sincere in faith and who isn’t. so, i have never heard of any jurist, most especially our esteemed pre-modern jurists, as conducting themselves in such an ill manner. my understanding is that even if jurists of the past vehemently disagreed with each other on religious matters, they still respected and appreciated each other, and they are held up as examples for us today as ones who passionately disagreed on principles, but treated each other as brothers. i am sorry, but i do not know what you are referring to when you say that scholars have declared one of their own as ‘outside of the faith’, i simply have not heard of this before, so, i cannot speak to it. it sounds very strange, very suspicious, and pretty unislamic to me, though.

    and Allah(swt) knows best.

  406. It seems that there is definitely a consensus among Muslims that they are able to judge other people’s ”purity” in the faith…
    And that Muslims have the right to cast other, non-conforming Muslims out, or even to murder them.

  407. Salaams everyone. I am Muslim and I owned a wonderful dog whom I loved very much (still do even though he passed over 9 years ago.) There are several rulings in Islam regarding animals in general and dogs in particular. Everything you mentioned about the kind treatment of animals is what I have learned and been taught as a Muslim. There is one hadith (saying of the Prophet PBUH) that one should not work an animal so hard that one burdened the animal’s soul (paraphrase- cannot remember exact words), indicating that Islam believes that animals have souls. As regards dogs, it is the saliva that is considered “najas” or ceremonially impure, as is human blood, urine, and other body fluids. One is required to wash after contact with any impurity and also to perform ablutions again after washing. I would like to share a “fatwa” (scholarly opinion) regarding dogs with you all:

    http://www.scholarofthehouse.org/tloofesfaond.html (You’ll have to cut and paste)

    as well as this: In Islam, animals, just like humans, are considered to be “nations” as Almighty Allah says,[There is not an animal (that lives) on the earth, nor a being that flies on its wings, but (forms part of) communities like you. Nothing have We omitted from the Book, and they (all) shall be gathered to their Lord in the end] (Al-An`am 6:38).

    The Prophet indicated that treating the animal kindly could be a reason for one’s admission to Paradise, and that merciless treatment of animals could be a reason for one’s condemnation to Hell. The Prophet gave an example of someone who will be admitted to Paradise because he gave water to a thirsty dog, and another example of a woman who will be sent to Hell because she locked a cat in a cage, without feeding it or letting it go free.

    Read more: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1193049568253&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar%2FFatwaE%2FFatwaEAskTheScholar#ixzz0y0CdaBiL

    Social attitudes regarding various animals may persist in different regions but to understand what Islam says about it (as opposed to what Muslims say or do about it or what non-Muslims say about it), it’s important for Muslims and non-Muslims alike to refer to the religion itself.

    Yes, different opinions exist regarding these questions. IMHO, the Qur’an quoted above is very clear and so are the hadith regarding kind treatment of animals, including dogs.

    And Allah knows best.

  408. just a couple of corrections about the ‘psychology today’ article:

    * the story of the prostitute who gave water to the dog and had all of her sins absolved is not in the qur’an–it is a hadith

    * mohammed(pbuh) in no way can absolve anyone’s sins–only God/Allah/The Universal Creator absolves humans of sins

    thanx! for sharing, wa assalaam.

    (ps. what horrid muslims who got the blind man and his seeing eye dog kicked off the bus!!!!!! >:-[ )

  409. Shereen- we’ll have to disagree on our definitions then, though your second definition comes closer to what I am speaking of. I have never come across anything remotely credible to suggest a majority is a consensus- Islamically speaking. Majority opinions are not necessarily correct. And if they’d wanted to say majority they could have. I have never heard anyone claim a position is a “consensus” unless they are also claiming NO credible alternate (even minority) viewpoint. I HAVE heard scholars declare minority views as “outside” of Islam so they can then claim consensus. The usage scholars themselves use supports my definition.

  410. http://www.islamicperspectives.com/MeaningOfIjma.htm

    In this discussion of ijma- you can note that the meaning of consensus changed after the time of the prophet. To me the most valid meanings would be those he supported. But either way it isn’t anything about a majority. It is about reaching an agreement.

  411. Shereen, I had the same reactions to the article. I found it very interesting, nonetheless. And, my heart sank as I read about the blind man and his dog. I don’t know if the Muslims were horrid or not- maybe just culturally indoctrinated and afraid, but IMHO, the bus driver should have asked the Muslims to get off the bus since they are obviously able to find an alternative more easily. I have to say that I have truly enjoyed reading your posts. I’m so glad I found this blog!

  412. Noor,

    Thank you for the link to the article on Psychology Today. I didn’t know about the 71-year-old blind cancer sufferer who was thrown off a bus just because a couple of Muslims would not accept his seeing-eye dog. The story truly made my blood boil! HELLO, THIS IS BRITAIN! Not your backward world! And you have no right to tell others to live according to your rules! This is not your world and your rules don’t apply anymore. This is our world and you are supposed to live by our rules AND respect the rights of those who are blind! If you want to live by the rules of Islam, go back to your homeland!

    It is horrible that Muslims go to the West to impose their understanding of the world without allowing anyone to tell them what to do. I can liken this to nothing but a bloodless conquest. If you don’t want to see dogs, stay in the Middle East and don’t go to Britain where blind cancer sufferers have every right to board a bus with their seeing-eye dogs.

    Where were the famous tolerance and compassion that Muslims credit themselves with when George Herridge, the 71-year-old blind cancer sufferer, wanted to board the same bus with his dog? I would never dream to tell Muslims how to live their lives when I was in their world. How come they feel free to boss anyone around outside their world? This is the precise reason I don’t want any Muslims in Europe – either learn how to live by our own rules or leave for good. Nobody will miss you, I assure you!

    http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/local-news/blind-passenger-hounded-bus-because-4237299

  413. “I would never dream to tell Muslims how to live their lives when I was in their world. How come they feel free to boss anyone around outside their world?”

    Reality Check, i don’t know who you think you are, but based on your writings, you sound like just another moronic, idiotic bigot. i guess you have forgotten when EUROPEAN CHRISTIANS–most notably, THE ENGLISH–invaded other people’s countries–including muslim ones–and bossed THOSE people around. they dismantled institutions, which is how we got the crazy, extremist muslims to begin with. YOUR people occupied other people’s countries–including muslim ones–and imposed THEIR negative, mysoginistic views of women onto the native population. one example: pakistan’s rape laws are based on old english colonial laws. if you don’t like other people coming to your land and telling you what to do, then perhaps you now know how it has felt for everyone else in the world. 85% of the world today is under control/influence of european descendants, despite the fact that european descendants are a global minority group.

    i am sick and tired of all the whining by people like you who apparently think you have a God-given right to trample on everyone else’s rights and sovereignty over the past several hundred years. if you are unhappy with how the world has turned out today, then perhaps your people should have stayed home in europe and not have invaded the rest of the world. ~90% of native americans died out b/c of the europeans. if you don’t like living with non-white, non-christians, then just leave the planet. mars is waiting for you.

    i’d like to know when europeans will apologize to all the africans, middle easterners, native americans, polynesians, and all the asians for the crap that the europeans dealt them. none of these groups colonized europe and dismantled their societies or imposed their views on the europeans. so, stop your baseless whining.

  414. sandy, i do not know which scholars you are referring to, but you may wish to check out this book, which provides some good background information on the field of fiqh and the ulamaat: Speaking in God’s Name: Islamic Law, Authority, and Women by dr. khaled abou el-fadl.

    once again, i am aware that scholars have disagreed, including our esteemed and respected greats of the pre-modern age. sooooo, although i confess i am not an expert in this field, based on what i learned/was taught, there are differences of opinion among the madhabs on even the same issues and i have never heard anything about calling someone “out of the faith”–that is new to me. perhaps you are an expert on this topic, i am just going by what i learned and what i have read.

    wishing you all the best, wa assalaam.

  415. sandy, the way it has been explained (by more than one person) is that on the major issues, the ulamaat would unanimously agree. these were issues of great significance that are the basis of islam. for example, you will not find any jurist claim that there are only 4 salaat in islam and not 5. so, when it comes to “root” topics of islam, all the ulamaat will agree; however, there are also “branches” of topics within islam, meaning that they are not super critical to the basis, or root, of the religion, and THESE topics can and DO have differences of opinion. so, some ulammat agreed on some evidence (ie, hadith or a certain interpretation of qur’an) for a particular topic, while other ulammat did not accept that evidence and instead provided other evidence. soooo, this is what i am referring to…and this was a reality, it did happen. there is historical evidence.

  416. Okay, are you absolutely sure you don’t want that comment cross-stitched into a pillow?

    Yes, the hypocrisy that we in the West tend to approach Muslim countries with is sometimes perplexing and extremely frustrating. I will be the first to admit that many “Muslim countries” have an awful lot of kinks to work out–as do, in my honest opinion, many Muslims in general. But we neglect to look at the circumstances and the state of these countries, which, often times, Western countries helped shape. We forget and stuff our prior atrocities under the rug and condemn an entire religion for the actions of the most insane, the most misguided, the most uneducated and disadvantaged Muslims’ crimes. The crimes committed in the name of Christianity are allowed, particularly in America, to be long forgotten, although many cruel things happened in the name of religion in my country little more than a couple hundred years ago.

    In any case, I doubt anyone will dispute the awfulness of that story. We all need to do better than this.

  417. What are we to think of the creation of an animal which will love protect and follow you for all it’s life, which will adore you, which will be happy to work for you, which will lay down it’s life for you, and yet we are to believe that this animal (presumably created by ”the creator”) is ”unclean”, ”filthy” and ”forbidden”?
    What would that make ”god”? A nasty wicked evil trickster.
    Or is god a nice skydaddy and made dogs to make people happy.
    Wouldn’t that mean dogs are extra special?
    You can’t have it both ways.

  418. salamaat and RAMADAN MUBAREK, RAMADAN KAREEM to everyone.

    sorry for using this thread to post the following, but since the topic came up earlier, i thought i could add some information to try and clarify.

    when it comes to the (seemingly confusing) issue of zakat, there seems to be some difference of scholarly opinion on whether women’s jewelry should be eligible for zakat:

    “Please note that Women jewelry is not subject to Zakat unless its amount is excessive or the jewelry is not being used (this is the view of Imam AlShafie and other scholars). However Imam Abu Hanifah and other scholars are on the opinion of Zakat must be paid on Woman jewelry if it reaches the Nisab (which is 85 grams).”
    –http://zakatfund.com.au/calculator

    so, in this case, there doesn’t seem to be agreement on the matter (perhaps not even a majority opinion); hence, there does not seem to be a consensus on this matter (using the english definion of the word ‘consensus’). so, which jurists are more correct? who is less correct? who is “out of the faith”? <—-well, that last question is easy. =:-) no one is "out of the faith" just b/c they did not reach an agreement. there are examples of different scholars having different opinions on the same subject, and one is advised to look at each jurist's respective evidence to determine which argument is closer to the truth and more convincing.

    another example is the issue of niqab. the majority of muslim scholars have ruled that niqab is NOT obligatory/mandatory/islamic. in fact, some rulings even imply that a muslim woman does not even have a religious RIGHT/protection to practice niqab; while a minority of scholars have ruled that niqab is mandatory. same thing with female genital mutiliation (aka female circumcision); but i have never heard that the scholars offering these minority rulings were "out of the faith". one can say that a majority of scholars hold such-and-such an opinion, but that's about all one can say if there is not a 100% unanimous ruling.

    once again, i am not an expert, and Allah(swt) knows best.

    wa assalaam.

  419. here is another example regarding nisab on silver: http://www.e-nisab.com/current

    one column is titled “Nisab majority USD” and another column is titled “Nisab Hanafis USD”. based on this presentation, it looks like the hanafi school differs on silver nisab compared to other madhabs.

  420. From what I have heard from my Muslim friends is basically what the Muslim veterinarian was quoted as saying. As in, you’re not supposed to keep dogs inside the house as they are seen as “unclean” animals, but it okay to have them as pets. I also know of cultures outside of Islamic countries where this is a common idea.

    That said, I see nothing wrong with having them inside or outside, but I think most dogs need a large yard (acreage is better) to move in and lots of love as they are more social animals.

  421. …keep in mind that some dog breeds are quite small–even smaller than some cats! so, am not sure large yards are necessary for such breeds, which would seem to need indoor space moreso than outdoor space due to their small size.

    also, when it comes to the “cleanliness” of dogs, there are different scholarly opinions within islam about this issue (see the last 1/3 of the post above dated JUNE 22, 2013).

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