I’ve written many posts about the western women who have married Saudis and the challenges they have faced. But what about the Saudi man who has chosen to marry a western woman instead of a Saudi woman? What does that say about him? What challenges if any does he face? The Saudi man who has gone ahead and married a Western in many ways has “bucked” the traditions and culture of expected to marry from within the country if not within the tribe or family itself.
In most cases he will receive pressure from his extended family to have the wife convert to Islam if she is not already a Muslim. If the couple decide to live in Saudi Arabia the husband will have additional responsibilities towards his western wife that he probably would not feel as much if they lived in a Western country. By coming with him to Saudi Arabia she will likely be saying goodbye to her family, her friends and to a degree her Western lifestyle and independence. She will be coming with him to a new country with a new language and very different customs and cultures. As a result the husband will need to be mentor, teacher, protector and many times go-between and mediator.
Depending on how traditional or conservative a family the Saudi husband has come from, his wife may or may not be easily or readily accepted. It will be up to him to stand up for her and ensure she receives the respect and courtesies deserving of a wife if they are not given naturally. If he chooses to ignore or not intervene if someone (particularly within his extended family) has hurt her or treated her with disrespect then it will be interpreted that it is ‘okay’ to continue to treat her as such and that she is not deserving of more respect.
There really is a culture within the culture in Saudi Arabia and that culture can be very different from Saudi family to Saudi family. A lot of the Saudis do seem to have a metamorphis or some kind of transformation after returning to the Kingdom with a western life. It is not necessary a place where one can easily be a maverick. People do watch and judge one another.
It is certainly not easy for a foreign woman to be married to a Saudi. There will be many compromises and usually on the part of the woman. And I do believe that due to the nature of the culture and the traditions, the Saudi husband is going to be protective if not over-protective of his western wife. What she may see as overbearing and contradictory to her culture and traditions he may view as doing “right” by her to avoid loss of face or a wrong impression. A foreign wife must must must learn as quickly as possible about the culture and the mindset in order to stack the cards in her favor with her Saudi and in the Kingdom!
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Anyone who marries outside his or her group (culture, religion, race, ethnicity, socio-economic status) shows a certain level of flexibility and acceptance of others—unless of course the point is to mould the other into one’s likeness. This flexibility is particularly so of anyone from a tight knit traditional group. Mixed marriages have been shown to function best where the couple and families are less conservative/ traditional. While one partner “collapsing into” the other’s culture works for a while, long term resentments build, and often there is “rebellion” against this “foreign” identity.
”If he chooses to ignore or not intervene…then it will be interpreted that it is ‘okay’ to continue to treat her as such and that she is not deserving of more respect.“
This can be said of any group dynamic, which is why it is so important for the group leader to set the tone, and to speak up early, and as often as necessary to maintain it. In this situation the husband must choose to function as the group leader with regards to his wife.
What stands out most about the description of this process for returning mixed Saudi couples is the degree of cultural and religious conservatism, the impediments to women working, the laws, including giving husbands more power than in the Mudwana of other Islamic countries, and the inability to have others visit easily.
“It is not necessary a place where one can easily be a maverick.” Ah, so no McCain/Palin types there, eh?
Sorry, I can never hear “maverick” now without thinking of them.
I think in many ways it would be exciting to live in a foreign country, but I don’t think I’d like being married to a foreigner if the family is THAT involved. Plus I don’t really like overprotection. It feels like smothering and, well, I have a thing for breathing.
And independence.
Im an Arab and Muslim and i would NOT marry a saudi , and not in saudi Arabia , that society scares me . thank God im not from there (financial freedom is not everything for me , i value my independence and Yet im a good Muslim )
@Susanne – oh yes…even in the more westernized Saudi families, the extended family plays a large role in day-to-day life.
@leyla – thanks for sharing your perspective. I would have never imagined myself married to a Saudi until I met and fell deeply in love with my husband. And I viewed him as the man who captured my heart…not as “the Saudi man who captured my heart.”
One saudi friend told me that he thinks Saudi men who marry Western women should not return home period, as women run a much higher risk in going to KSA, then men do when they stay in America.
Interesting perspectives and views, but I guess whichever way you look at it, if you have the overall goal of making the ‘relationship’ succeed , then a whole lot of adjustment and sometimes compromise makes it worthwhile. Don’t you think so Carol?
I for one would never have thought i’d be married to a saudi .Being raised in a traditional indian hindu family the thought never crossed my mind that i would marry anyone not from the same culture. Till i met F !!! after 20+ yrs if i had to do it all over again there is no one else i’ll pick. All relationships need work, but if you truly are soul mates i don’t think nationalities/religions matter. As for moving to KSA – yes it’s different , yes the saudi family can be a pain – especially if they hate you
and yes nothing can be done without the co-operation of your spouse. but the bright side atleast for me was that F reminded his family that he was accepted like a son in mine and they were warned not to mess with me. of course we didn’t stay long there – in lieu of my nonflourishing career.
The success or failure of a relationship depends on the 2 people in it to a large extent and how much they let the other elements seep into it. soi wouldn’t say never marry a saudi, there are wonderful men in KSA . just like anywhere else inthe world
I always love to hear about your great relationship!
I think though, that in KSA the difficulties of ”making a multicultural marriage work” are increased exponentionally.
And I think you made an exceptionally lucky dip with F !!!!!
@Rasputin – I agree….and would say that the wife is expected to make the most compromise. As long as she is willing to do so and can maintain communication with her spouse, then the odds are more in her favor of success.
@Radha – I am so very happy that you and “F” have found the ideal situation for your ongoing love story.
Thanks for this topic but I would disagree with the writer’s point view partially. let me clarify this point, There are many things that could be true about Saudi social traditions in terms of that they are different from western social lifestyles, especially if you put in your mind that the relation between the Saudi husband and his western wife is based on the intergroup level. and I think this is wrong for one reason. the relationship between a husband and his wife is mostly based on interpersonal level. you can say that the western lady has to give up her western culture which I think it is something not true. both the Saudi and his western wife will live in a new culture . The Saudi husband usually who marry a western wife is integrated into and accepted her culture and he has nothing against it. so the problem is not at the interpersonal level but you cay say it is at the cultural intergroup level. I believe that the Saudi who marry a western wife, he surely loves her very much and he is integrated into her cultural norms. and I always believe that LOVE is the most important thing that can make couples live happily together and forever. I felt sad because what you have written is like a warning to western ladies like ” DO not marry a Saudi guy”. but you have to think of many successful love stories between a Saudi and his western wife, and the emotions of Saudi guys who are in love with western ladies. do not kill a rose but water it. because this international marriage is a kind of cultural change process that is going in Saudi society. Saudi society is tremendously change rapidly. I know many Saudis who are happily married with western ladies and they live together for ages. But the western lady who can not live in her new Host culture, it could be challenging for her at first. But her husband will always be supporting her. They are like western couples who work in Saudi Arabia and most of them are happily living there and for many years. I think the Saudi cultural norms could be good for married couples but not good for single guys who try to build their new love life. thanks again, salam
Medina, I don’t agree with your comment, including the one on the debate page. It’s not Bedu’s job to gild the pill, to write only about how wonderful marriage to a saudi man would be for western women because that would be a gross generalisation and totally not true.
Bedu wants to give an unbiased glimpse into ”life in KSA” and the sad truth is that western ladies who marry saudis get the short end of the stick. It is the sad truth that women in Saudi are treated by society ànd by law, as moronic toddlers, and have virtually no rights. And the few they do have are not honoured.
Women in Saudi arabia are, by all intends and purposes, slaves.
If you have no rights, no possibillity of making the smallest decision on your life by yourself, you are a slave. Now this is difficult enough if you have been trained, taught, and indoctrinated from baby onwards that you are secondrate, for western women this may be very hard to bear. Not only that, the gross inequality with wich women are treated in KSA may lead to very serious trouble and unhappiness by the wives.
To say anything else, merely to present a pretty picture would be a very heavy lie.
And please, everybody, if you want to discuss, or don’t agree with somebody’s opinion please do so without reverting to the toddler level of: ”In your country things aren’t so nice either! Weeehhh!!! Look at how bad things are elsewhere!!!”
Try to act adult and answer the point you don’t like. ignoring it and immediately pointing the finger elswhere is allowable at kindergarten but here I would like to see some intelligent debate.
Medina–I think you made some excellent points. Indeed the primary relationship for the couple is at the interpersonal level, and this determines how each lives and adapts to the broader group culture–familial, and societal. Most couples support each other in their adjustments and readjustments to their respective cultures. It is the job of each partner to establish to their respective families that the spouse is to be respected. And indeed, a single expat looking for romance in Saudi would be more likely to find it in the expat community, and even there single expats are often a minority.
In fact, most couples, mixed or not, make a culture of their own, over time, of how they do things within their couple, their nuclear family, and their extended family.
It is important, amid the warnings of the challenges, that many mixed couples make very happy lives whatever country they are in.
@Medina – thank you for your comment. However if the western wife for whatever reason does not have the support of her Saudi husband then her time in the Kingdom can be miserable. It is very easy before going to the Kingdom for a couple (or the Saudi husband) to say life will be like this or that and you can do this or that but on arrival it can change. He may face pressures from society or family that he did not anticipate and she goes through her own transition as well.
@Aafke – I always enjoy your frank and direct comments.
Alot of people make comments based on what this region is like NOW…ive been here over 20 years and believe me it has changed dramatically in just that short time…so one can only imagine what the next 20 years will bring…I just hope Im not here to witness it…lol.
Dear Aafke, although you called for intellectual debate in your post above, unfortunately, what you have wrote is just calling bad names, nothing more. I do not think that to call a culture norms names is an intellectual debate, because easily I can point finger to you and call you names as well. What you wrote is only one kinds of the typical stereotypes and prejudice that western people hold towards Islamic cultural norms, we read it every day in many of western literatures. So you did not come up with something new by recalling your prejudice, And the intellectual debate is lost in your post.
I am not going to point finger to American culture and speak about how “ free” girls are exploited for commercial ads, and how American men break up with their “free” girl friends pregnant and run away as soon as marriage notion is proposed by “free” girls. If there are some restrictions on Saudi women it is made for their protection and for reinforcing family values at the first place, the thing that is obviously lost in American society.
At least Saudi men are responsible when they get marry with American or western ladies and they take care of their kids and their wives regardless of the cultural differences and law, contrary to American men who hardly take any responsibility towards their kids. Hence, I do not find any sad truth of marriage with Saudis that you are speaking about undocumentedly. I think the sad truth is how Americans lost their family values.
@ Bedu, The most important thing is that her Saudi husband love her and she loves him back, the western wife marry a Saudi guy not his family nor his culture. they can make their own culture at their house, I live in Australia and I know very well how couples live here, so I think it is unfair to judge the Saudi husband by his culture or by the law the run the country just because you have different point of view or different cultural norms. the western wife should consider that they live in a new host culture different from her native culture, and I think if she loves her husband, she will do her best to understand the cultural norms and to try to adjust with it because she knows that the cultural norms are out of her husband control and he can not do anything about it. so the question is, do you think that it is fair to judge Saudis generally by their culture and warn western ladies from marrying them just because they live in different culture? Salam.
Dear Chiara, Thanks for your comment, I really appreciate it because it is the closet one to the reality.
“At least Saudi men are responsible when they get marry with American or western ladies and they take care of their kids and their wives regardless of the cultural differences and law, contrary to American men who hardly take any responsibility towards their kids. Hence, I do not find any sad truth of marriage with Saudis that you are speaking about undocumentedly. I think the sad truth is how Americans lost their family values. …”
What version of the Saudi Disney channel have you been watching…some of the commentors here and on similar blogs have been or are married to Saudi (or other Arabs)…and definitely do not share your sentiments regarding how caring and wonderful they are…
btw cultural norms ARE in our control because WE the people are the ones that determine what is and what isnt cultural….its not a matter of deciding to change them into more humane and equal treatment for all…but deciding WHEN that change will happen.
Dear coolred,
LOL @ “What version of the Saudi Disney channel have you been watching”, it is so funny, thanks for it.
anyway, at first place, Saudis are Saudis and do not mix them with other Arabs plz. because this term ” arabs” is used interchangeably and inaccurately to label everyone who live in the middle east because Arabs are very different culturally though Islamic norms are dominate but they are different in terms of location, law and culture.
Regarding the version of the Saudi Disney channel I am watching is that It is my own perspective about marriage life in KSA. I really find Saudis take care a lot about their kids and their wives and do their best to please them but there are exceptions of course and it is existed everywhere, but I am speaking generally and it seems that it triggered your American national feelings lol.
you spoke about the Saudi’s responsibility to change the social norms, I will take myself as an example here, I find myself integrated into my host culture, Australia, and I criticize many cultural norms in my homeland that restrict to some extent people freedom especially Mutawwa, but do you think that if I marry an Australian lady and she comes to live with me in Saudi, that I can give her the right to drive her car? or make her take off her hijab in public? I can not stand against the law and break it to please her. It is the law and changing it is out of my control. but I will do my best to make her live in her culture at her home or by going out shopping, beach etc. I have nothing at my hand to decide, we are citizens who do not have the power to decide when the social norms are changed but we have hearts that can fall in love and we have blogs that we can use to express our points of view. salam
Coolred–is that “WE the people are the ones that determine what is and what isnt cultural….” channelling your inner Preamble to the Constitution of the United States of America, or is it more “El pueblo unido jamás será vencido” (but hopefully not “El pueblo armado jamás será aplastado” ) ? LOL
You certainly do your part in your writing and living to modify cultural practices in your corner of the world, including dog owning. I hope you find a little one for your flat.
Medina–You’re welcome, and more excellent points! I’m glad you identified yourself as an expatriated Saudi man, as it helps to better contextualize your comments. It is so true that while one may make one’s own marital and familial culture, the laws, and the slower changing societal norms are not directly nor immediately transformable by individuals. Still the examples we live and stories we share help to modify the broader culture and perceptions about it. If you have a blog I would be interested in it (if it is in Arabic I could still manage–aboriginal Australian languages not so easily LOL
)
Dear Chiara,
Thanks for your post. and I agree with what you well stated 100%. Unfortunately, I do not have a blog right now but maybe in the future, I will let you know if I design one.
It is also really interesting that you can command Arabic and maybe aboriginal Australian languages too lol, I really appreciate that especially it seems you speak Spanish as well. From now, I may call you Chiara multi languages lol
Salam!
@Medina: “do you think that it is fair to judge Saudis generally by their culture and warn western ladies from marrying them just because they live in different culture?”
While a western woman does indeed marry her Saudi for love and for who he is, the reality the majority of the time is that once arriving in the Kingdom she will likely discover she has married an extended family as well. At least in my sphere, which is pretty wide, the extended family plays a large role in relationships as well…intentionally or not. Therefore any western woman involved with a Saudi needs to have her eyes opened. It is up to her on what she chooses and of course how she adapts. But my point with a lot of my posts is that so many young woman do not know enough about the Saudi culture and traditions and what impact it can have on a relationship in Saudi.
I’m pleased to say that the Chicago Sun Times picked up this post:
http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/blogentries/index.html?bbPostId=B6kcqoGH9Pf8Bzn7nRZ5sNNoCz7kbTWqhrOaxCzDw1qId8KnoL
Hi All,
Could anyone tell me more about stories where a Saudi marries a Westerner but stays and in a Western country how do those marriages work out?
I know nothing in life is perfect….
I am engaged to a Saudi, we have a great relationship and both live a Western lifestyle I do always fear that thing might change ones we are married.
@Sam,
First of all, welcome to American Bedu blog and thank you for your comment and query.
I hope that the following links of earlier interviews can give you some insights:
http://americanbedu.com/2009/09/21/a-saudi-woman-shares-her-experiences/
http://americanbedu.com/2009/09/22/part-two-a-saudi-woman-shares-her-experience/
http://americanbedu.com/2009/06/14/a-saudi-woman-shares-her-story-of-marriage-to-a-westerner/
http://americanbedu.com/2009/04/18/one-saudi-woman-speaks-out-frankly%E2%80%A6/
http://americanbedu.com/2008/01/28/reflections-from-a-saudi-man-with-an-american-wife/