Whether male or female I think it is a fair observation to say that when a group of Saudis (even if as few as three) are together, one will notice how the decibel level and the voices rise as they speak. I don’t know why a Saudi will feel like they have to shout to be heard when the distance may be only a few feet? However this is a practice that I have observed over and over. Is this something in keeping and typical with the Arabic language? I can’t answer that question not being a native arab speaker but I do wonder whether the language also leads itself to speaking out more forcefully and loudly? Or is there an underlying desire to draw attention to oneself?
I wish to make it clear I’m not referring to a social gathering or a party but making this observation based on general daily conversation. I think when there is a social gathering or activity with larger groups it is natural for the decibel level to rise. I look forward to your observations and thoughts.
Filed under: culture, friendship, Saudi Arabia, Saudi culture, Saudi customs, travel Tagged: | culture, customs, KSA, language, Saudi, Saudi Arabia, Saudi culture, Saudi customs, travel
I don’t know if I have shared this before but my mother is Persian and I have noticed that when I am in Iran, everyone speaks loud. I usually need a tylenol after sitting with family members.
They shout even though there are no emergencies! LOL
I have never been to KSA but I have lots of Arab friends & they all shout too. It is hillarious;-)
I hope your enjoying your trip in the US. Here in the Midwest the weather is getting better so that is a relief:)
We come from huge families and socialize in groups, HENCE, the volume. We are also insanely proud of being able to verbalize ALOT – it is one of the attributes we aspire to. Eloquence is everything. Has been for centuries.
BTW, an arab father will always caution his daughters to speak softly. And we usually do in the presence of males.
Arabs are louder, and it just isnt Saudis. I dont think it has anything to do with the language, rather with the culture of the people speaking it.
I havent been to Saudi, but I have been all over the Middle East and have noticed this, as well in my interactions with Saudis outside the Kingdom.
As a person raised in a German American household I was taught to value and prize a calm and serene environment. Being married to an Arab has kind of robbed me of that……….but that is one of the things that happen in a cross cultural marriage.
At first I thought everyone was arguing with each other, but it just turns out that this is just how loud they are.
Another good topic would be the subject of Arab/Saudi children and how they behave in public. I have noticed, from Cairo to Damascus, that Arab children tend to be very unruly, loud and all over the place.
My wife and her family always joke when we are out and they hear loud, crazy children “they must be Arabs”.
Anyone else notice this? I was raised that “children are to be seen, not heard” but I dont acribe to that view myself, but certainly something less than little jinn running around.
Not only Arabs but Mediterraneans are loud, part of the joie de vivre. If I haven’t heard alot of Arabic for a while, I am initially convinced there are immense fights going on when really it is just 3 sisters debating whether to start cooking now or later–all those decibels and guttural sounds can be really confusing!
Even funnier when several people will be in one large room and apparently the feeling that it would be easier to go sit near the one you want to speak to would be better for all concerned never occurs to them…and so they talk (shout) across the room in lively conversation…along with everyone else talking.
Ive lost count of the number of times Ive been in a womans gathering where it got really loud and a man in the mens section has come banging on the door ordering them to lower their voices…meanwhile we can all hear the men going at it from their side…lol.
I don’t think I’ve heard anyone louder than American women…Muslim women included. We joke about it all the time.
Abu Sinan- the children thing has to do w/ their upbringing. And as a child subject to the German way of thinking I must say there is a happy medium
I swear I can hear my one SIL six doors down no matter what conversation she is having. Mr. Man thinks I’m a rather loud person and for the most part it is so. But no more than half of his female family. Than there is the other half that is really quiet, even in a large gathering their voices will be the last to be heard. No more different than growing up in the US for me. Some people tend to be loud, others don’t. I suppose it is all about what your used to. I had a very loud irish father growing up so it is hard for me to judge
arabs are, as a collective, loud.
my mother is a very quiet person, and being raised mainly by her and my grandparents, i speak in a rather fair decibel count. unlike my father and a large part of the rest of my family.
as a child, i used to be afraid of basically half my family (and my father), as they were loud. and now, their children (who are my age, and have children of their own now) are loud, and so are the previously mentioned grandchildren.
N.B. my paternal grandfather was turkish (rest his soul) , he only spoke loudly when addressing my father, thats how they “communicate” apparently.
My husband’s (Saudi) family is very quiet…..right down to the aunties of old. It took him a long time to get used to our family and the noise we make. (I’m one of 7) In fact, one of my BIL’s was always put on the spot for being so quiet. He explained why to my sister. He told her, “I was taught to wait for a break in the conversation before commenting, but in your family, there is never a break!” ha ha ha
But he says that if you don’t like one conversation, you can always join another one….because we are all talking and no one is listening. I told him he just hasn’t learned the art of speaking and listening to 3 or 4 conversations at once.
While traveling around the world, it’s usually the Americans that seem to be the loudest in any restaurant. The Saudis sure are quiet compared to my neck of the woods in the states.
I’ve enjoyed everyones comments and seems like in regards to the manner and volume of speaking it’s a real mix all over and not just perhaps unique to Saudi Arabia or the Arab world.
Ive always had a hard time distingushing between 3 or 4 conversations in arabic as well…so when someone finally remembers me to ask for my input …Im like…which conversation were u…lol. Its confusing to us poor nonArabic speakers….sigh.
The Arabs I met in Syria didn’t seem especially loud, but as Miriam Mac and someone else pointed out, Americans are often loud also. (Ever watched one of those courtroom TV shows or the boardroom of The Apprentice?) So I am used to some loud talk.
My BIL is from Venezuela. While HE is a calm, quiet person, his aunt who now lives here in the States is quite the loud, animated speaker at times. So I guess loud speakers can be found in many nationalities.
OK…I gotta say it…I don’t know how loud Saudi’s are since when I see them (in the commissary, dining hall etc.) I don’t hear their conversations. However, I would have to put money that they’re not louder than Black Americans. And, Africans are even louder. Even I, when I’m getting my hair done (by Africans) I’m thinking, “damn, this girl is loud”. LOL
And, my 2 Arab (Palestinian) guy friends in the states actually can get loud, but they’re not always loud.
So…who knows.
Americans are much louder than Saudis. Did you ever note the difference in decibal level between a plane full of Americans and a plane full of Saudis?
I think the issue is not with speaking, but listening. Arabs including Saudi’s talk at the same time. So the only way you can be heard is by speaking louder than the others. The larger the group the higher the decibel level, it just keeps getting escalated higher with every new person added to the conversation.
Arab men may be louder because the sound waves have to cross the shemagh(head dress). Same case with arab women who cover their head…lol
Its just a joke, and there is no logic behind it.
I think loud people can happen in any culture, but I do have to add in here, that when my Saudi husband speaks on the phone, he talks extremely loud! I don’t know why and I have asked him, but he doesn’t have an answer either…
HishMaj, you might be on to something there.
Actually, I think that all medditerain and middle east countries speak loud!
I’m from Spain, here are people speak loud to understand eachother. I also could realise that the italian also speak very loud… And all the arabs too
My neigbors are from Morocco and I can listen them from their home.. lol !!
But I think that they also listen us speaking loud by the house..
reason #1,743,655 NOT to cover
@Lara- te acompan(con tilde)o en tus sentimientos!! LOL I thought Spanish speakers especially from the Islands couldn’t get any louder until the Arab (Jordan) side of my family came over for a holiday! You’d think at some point the cops would be called in!
My hubby looked at me and said- “and I thought WE were loud in Yemen!”
I agree with Saudi in the US how when there are 3 or more Arabs/Saudis together they tend to talk over one another at the same time. It is indeed confusing!
I’m in Australia at the moment and the Saudi women here are rather quiet, even when they’re in a massive gathering. The men, however… WOW. I was just on the phone to my partner and heard men shouting & yelling in the background. I automatically assumed something was wrong, and yet when I asked him where he was he said “In a coffee shop with my friends!” who are, of course, all Saudi. If I am sitting with the women, I can always hear the men – no matter where they are!
I know a few of them have trouble listening as well, as “Saudi in US” said, so that might be part of the reason.
Maybe if they were more quiet that shameles hussie old woman would have never been caught ‘mingling’ with those two unrelated men that were visiting her and bringing her bread.
Carol, make a post about that current news story and then we can debate what age is the cut off for having to be concerned about whether you are attracting men.
I just can’t believe that there would be actually be judges that would sentence an old woman to 40 lashes for mingling with men. I’m sure it will most likely never actually happen but still, is it just me or does that sound insane?
Lynn–it would be pertinent to add that the woman is 75 and one of the men is her “milk son”, and the other accompanied him. Both are receiving jail time and lashes too. A good deed never goes unpunished?
If not insane, then definitely a miscarriage of justice, including Islamic justice where postmenopausal women have more latitude, and “milk sons” are equivalent to sons in this situation.
Back to the post, overtalking is more common in certain cultures as a social convention, as is repetition,by each participant of the same story with their own inflections. Both seem to me more common in Mediterranean, Middle Eastern and Central Asian cultures. African Americans describe interruptions as more frequent in African American conversation.
Overtalking is also a strategy of argumentation–an annoying off the point one, but a strategy nonetheless!
hishmaj…I tell my dh all that times that I am loud cuz I have 3 layers covering my head my shalah, niqab, and over head abaya!
susie my husband is SOOOOOO loud on the phone and he’s not a loud person. He is louder when talking to Saudis than with Westerners.
Lynn…why bring that up here.
Chiara….I don’t believe the story at all. It may have been written to sell. if there s a csase involving a old woman getting lashes i’m sure it is for not what they say…bringing bread…maybe it was somnethong illegal she was running.
Also does it make sense that a 75 year old woman is the milk mother of a 24 year old man. do the math…she would have been 50 years old nursing him…not likely!
This story needs to be verified b4 everyone goes getting their panties in a bunch.
As a Bedouin Saudi, we don’t talk at the same time and that kind of act is disrespectful .However, between friends, sometime, their voice get louder and speak nearly at the same time when they argue.It consider disrespect when men in Majles “gathering” speaking while others speak the same time unless if everyone in the Majlis is talking one to one but not loud.In the recent years, Young youth is start to adopt the loudness in their speak to show their manly feature and pride which is also happen in malls and when females around.
Still when I talk with my mates we still talk in normal tone and listen to others when they speak, but If I wished to show my object on some part of what he speaking about I start to through a word like “but…what if…okay but..” or start to shake my head as not agree( not like hindi” in our way as american bedu know
Umm Adam–unbunching my panties as we speak!
I didn’t do the math, because I was stuck on her age, and my belief based on experience elsewhere that postmenopausal Muslim women are given a pass on such meetings with men. 50-51 is possible, though not prime nursing age. She is a Syrian widow so perhaps not given the same justice in Saudi. However a human rights lawyer has taken up the case for all 3.
A good accounting
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/03/09/saudi.arabia.lashes/?iref=hpmostpop
I agree the topic is misplaced here. We should leave it alone now or move it to another thread. I vote for leaving it alone.
Saudi Bedu–thanks for your comment which adds nuance for us all. I can imagine the Hindi head shake (obvious, and rounded movements) compared to a Bedu (barely perceptible quick side to side)–am I right or close, or could you describe how?
Well I have to mention one point…in the arabic paper it said she was 60….and that she was a pimp for the men…sooooo…the plot thickens.
personally, I love a loud festive gathering where everyone is shouting and yelling and having a good time. Now my in-laws look at me like I have horns on my head when I interrupt anyone, especially my husband, but I am not trying to be rude, just having a good old fashioned debate!
@Coolred, ‘in the arabic paper it said she was 60….and that she was a pimp for the men…sooooo…’
Oooh, so she was a marriage broker then? Whatever, she should have been more quiet about it so that her neighbors wouldn’t have heard them.
@ummadam, That story was reported by the Associated Press with quotes from the woman’s lawyer Abdel Rahman al-Lahem, who you may have heard of from the Qatif girl case. The relationship with one of the men is that he is the nephew of her late husband. If you google the story you will find it in many sites. Most of them quote AP as the source.
Saudi courts are infamous for issuing strange rulings, so it is no wonder people will believe it, especially when the source is a known news organization. This story is not stranger than the Qatif girl case, which turned out to be true. I am not sure what is the reason we should not believe it, if the Saudi government did not refute this story that has been reported by many major news organizations.
I hope some day you look at the evidence and come to the realization that the Saudi Judicial system is a joke. The good thing is the King realized that and took the first step in reform by introducing new leadership along with a reform plan. Let’s hope that will produce results in a few years, so we do not hear bizarre stories like this one.
Saudi in US–thanks for your comment. The link I gave is also the AP version, and specifies that one man was her husband’s nephew and also her “milk son”. I’m glad Abdel Rahman al-Lahem is involved. I didn’t recognize his name from the Qatif girl case, but now I am even more hopeful that there will be a just resolution. As a Syrian she may still face deportation.
The one Arabic language item I was able to find and translate agrees with the “bread delivery” story, and all emphasize that she is poor and elderly and living with the support of family and neighbours. Indeed the Saudi government has not contradicted the facts of this case.
Hopefully it will be part of a judicial reform that the King is undertaking.
@Abu Sinan’s first post:
Actually, I’ve got a funny story about loud kids.
When we were living in Canada, my mother came back from the supermarket and told me:
“Mohamed! You’re never going to believe what I just saw!”
“What?”
“I was shopping for groceries when I heard this child arguing with his mother quite loudly.”
“OK seems normal”
“AND THEN he shouted “I HATE YOU MOM” at the top of his lungs!! Can you believe that?!”
“Doesn’t seem too strange to me.”
“HOW CAN YOU TELL YOUR OWN MOTHER YOU HATE HER! *SLAP*”
“X_X”
To this day many years later, she is still in disbelief whenever that story comes up.
So yeah, individual parents and all that.
Mohamed S–LOL Canadian kids often tell their mom they hate them when they are frustrated, deprived (of something serious like a trip to McDonalds) or just very angry. Saudi kids never do? I haven’t heard an Arab child say anything like this, but then I would probably miss the words, and I’ve only seen angry back talk that was short lived.
Hopefully you are no longer seeing stars!!!
I’m not going to comment on a 75 year old woman being lashed and imprisoned. I’ve written a post.
http://clouddragon.wordpress.com/2009/03/11/the-saudi-justice-system-triumphs-again/
http://www.portfolio.com/business-news/reuters/2009/03/10/us-intelligence-candidate-pulls-out-after-objections
In re: to Mohamed’s story,
I suspect this may be due to the proverb (is it Qu’ranic verse?) that heaven lies at the mother’s feet…
The phrase is common in the U.S. and there’s nothing quite like the first time you tell them that the feeling’s mutual (no, I don’t have kids–I’m the cool aunt) and the look of outrage on their cute little faces ;b
My cousins said it all the time growing up…my mom was too mean, we were all too scared to backtalk much.
I have asked my Middle Eastern husband about this a number of times. he says it’s a style of talking which indicates sincerety. By speaking louder in this manner, it indicates to the listener that what you are saying is really, really true, or it’s like it gives you more credibility and/or honesty/believability.
Paloma
Paloma–thanks for your perspective, it rings true to experience!
Thanks Paloma – I had not heard that before and it’s good to know.