If only Jeddah could talk, what deep secrets would it reveal? I for one believe there are many unique stories just waiting to be told about Jeddah if only we are fortunate enough to unearth them.
For example, a few months ago, a good friend of mine, Donna Abu Nasr, who is the Bureau Chief of the Associated Press in Riyadh wrote this fascinating story about Eve and her final resting place at a graveyard in Jeddah: Sadly though if you are a woman and visiting Jeddah and wish to see this resting place, you would be prohibited from entry as women are not allowed in the graveyards of Saudi Arabia. As a result, my friend Donna was only able to get a photo of the gate leading in to the cemetery and hearing through the words and visions of men who were willing to speak on what they saw once inside.
And then just recently I was speaking with an expat who shared another interesting story with me. He was based in Riyadh but on one weekend a Saudi friend took him to Jeddah and proceeded to give him a tour of the out-of-the-way sites. According to the expat, the Saudi took him to an area to view the ruins of an old 17th Century Dutch church. That’s right…in conservative Saudi Arabia where no other religion but Islam can be openly practiced, there seem to be signs, such as the ruins, that it was not always this way in the Kingdom.
Now regrettably I have been unable to verify the location of these ruins. However I do know the expat well who shared this experience and have no doubt of its validity. Perhaps some of my Jeddah readers may be able to share more information on the location and genesis of these ruins?
While I could find little information about the existence of church ruins in Jeddah, I did find this submission proposing that the historical area of Old Jeddah be nominated as a World Heritage Site. The justification states that the history of Jeddah goes back to beyond Islamic times leading credence towards understanding how maybe Jeddah could have been openly an interfaith city so to speak in earlier times.
Filed under: culture, gender, islam, religion, Saudi Arabia, Saudi culture, Saudi customs, travel, Uncategorized
Carol, men and women both are allowed to visit graveyards. I’ll tell you a little secret. I always thought that women are not allowed to visit graveyards. However, last year by shear accident I was reading an article; the lady in this article was discussing her visit with her dad to the graveyard. I stopped for a bit, I said hmmm, how come, aren’t she Muslim! Can women visit graveyards? It never occur to me to investigate this out because I’ve never heard the topic discussed in front of me.
I saw a Saudi guy that same day I read the article. The guy graduated from “Om Al-Qora Univ” with a degree in Islamic law “sharia’” I asked him: “are women allowed to visit graveyards?” to my amazement, he said directly, and without even posing for a sec to think “yes women can visit graveyards” I told him how come! I remember that I’ve been told once that it’s forbidden for women to visit graveyards . Then he gave me all the sayings from the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him , and upon all the prophets, concerning this topic. I found out that indeed it was forbidden initially for both women and men. Then the Prophet “nasakh” (I don’t know the exact translation of the word “nasakh” but it is roughly similar to the word overwrite in English ) So later, the Prophet allowed both men and women to visit graveyards. It seems that some people are using the old(overwritten) rules on women only and using the updated rules for men . I found this quite interesting because I learnt how ignorant I’m sometime
… I teased the guy, I told him , how come the Islamic scholars who taught you said to you that it’s permissible for women to visit graveyards, while, perhaps, one of their students who taught me in high school, said to me that it’s forbidden .
I thought to share
Salaam
“nasakh” = supercede, abrogate, etc.
Also, Ahmed posted something about the churches in Saudi Arabia on his blog a month ago:
http://saudijeans.org/2008/10/12/saudi-arabia-churches/
Khalid – that is very interesting for I imagine if a poll were to be taken, most will respond that women are prohibited from visiting graveyards. While according to a scholar it may be “islamically” permissible, it is likely not done (widely) in Saudi Arabia as it is culturally still prohibited.
Abid – thanks for providing Ahmed’s link which dovetails nicely with this post.
From http://www.IslamQA.com
Ruling on women visiting graves
My aunt’s father died and she visited his grave once. She wants to visit it again, but she has heard a hadeeth which means that women are forbidden to visit graves. Is this hadeeth saheeh, and if it is saheeh, is she guilty of a sin for which kafaarah (expiation) is required?
Praise be to Allaah.
The correct view is that it is not allowed for women to visit graves, because of the hadeeth mentioned. It was narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) cursed women who visit graves. Women should stop visiting graves. The woman who visited a grave out of ignorance (of this ruling) is not to blame, but she should not do it again. If she does so, she has to repent and seek forgiveness, and repentance cancels out whatever came before. Visiting graves is only for men. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Visit graves, for they will remind you of the Hereafter.” At the beginning of Islam, visiting graves was not allowed for men and women alike, because the Muslims were new in Islam and came from a background where grave-worship and attachment to the dead were widespread. So they were forbidden to visit graves as a preventative measure, to avoid evil and prevent shirk. But once Islam was well-established and they understood Islam, Allaah prescribed visiting the graves because of the lessons and reminders of death and the Hereafter involved in that, and so that they could make du’aa’ for the deceased and pray for mercy for them. Then Allaah forbade woman to do that – according to the most correct of the two scholarly opinions – because they may present a temptation to men and even to themselves, and because they have little patience and they get too upset. So by His mercy and kindness towards them, Allaah forbade them to visit graves. This is also a form of kindness towards the men, because if they were all to gather at the grave, this might cause fitnah. So by His mercy, Allaah forbade women to visit graves.
But with regard to the prayer (women praying the funeral prayer), there is nothing wrong with that. Women may join the funeral prayer. The prohibition applies only to visiting the graves. Women should not visit graves according to the more correct of the two scholarly opinions, because of the ahaadeeth which indicate that that is forbidden. She does not have to offer any kafaarah, all she has to do is repent.
From Fataawa wa Maqaalaat Mutanawwi’ah li Samaahat al-Shaykh al-‘Allaamah ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him), vol. 9, p. 282
women visit the grave of Muhammad pbuh in Madina.. soo explain??
ok no I’m not asking anyone to really explain as nothing makes sense. I visited a church in Saudi that was converted to a masjid by Umar r.a on his way to Palestine. I think I posted about that with pics.. well check on that if not i’ll dig out the pics and post them
That’s not true!!! Women are not prohibited to visit graveyards.
here’s the hadith: “I commanded you not to visit graves, but now I strongly recommend visiting them, for that makes the heart tender and the eye shed tears and it reminds of the Hereafter.” (Reported by Ahmad and Al-Hakim on the authority of Anas)
Here’s another cute Jeddah story.
The Infamous Bicycle Roundabout!
Jeddah’s squares and roundabouts are dotted with artistic structures ranging from the amazing to the amazingly weird. One of them is the famous bicycle roundabout. It’s basically a HUGE bicycle just sitting there.
http://www.savola.com/SL2005/Jeddah/img/010.jpg
Jeddawis are known to get a kick out of telling tourists (especially people returning from Hajj or Umrah) that this bicycle belonged to Adam (father of all humans), since Islamic tradition has it that he was much much taller than ordinary humans. Jeddah’s (unsubstantiated) claim of being the final resting place of Eve only adds to an already delicious prank.
In the weeks after Hajj you always see tourists taking photos in front of it
All I can say is when I have visited the graves of my family members who have passed on it gives me a sense of comfort that I can pay my respects and prayers at their final resting place on this earth.
Saudi Jawa – Thank you thank you thank you! I so enjoy hearing about these traditions and stories, not only of Jeddah but throughout KSA.
And I do know which roundabout you are talking about and have indeed seen the GIANT bicycle! So tell me, is there also a story about the roundabout with the airplane? Sorry I dont know the specific road but we come to it shortly after crossing a long bridge and it is the route we take when going to the Corniche (coming from Makkah)
So how does this apply to Egyptians that live in the graveyards of Cairo?
Or those I have seen in the Yemeni mountains where the graveyards are basically in their backyards?
Wondering…
I can’t answer those questions Inal but I’m hopeful someone else will attempt to.
The airplane roundabout is no longer there. There have removed the whole roundabout and building a bridge or something over there. It was located on the Prince Majed Street (Share3 sab3een).
There are lots of HUGE things in various roundabouts across Jeddah. Including a giant protractor,compass and scale.
Its really nice though.
Inal, you know there are lots of things that people consider as a part of the religion while it’s not. So here you read the saying of the prophet but still some people insist on what they think is right. The same applies on driving, if we compare now & the time of the prophet peace be upon him, women used to ride camels & nowhere in the hadith or the Quran prohibits women from driving. So sometimes will find people, confusing what is considered a tradition that was started by their ancestors with the religion & therefore they consider it holy & believe that it is part of the religion while it’s not.
awww, that is sad to hear the airplane roundabout is gone.
Thanks for your comment lovefrom1stbite and welcome to the blog!
Inal, I think you’re referring to “City of the Dead” smacked in the middle of downtown Cairo. Yes, that place is intriguing in the sense that it is a small township on its own, complete with post office, cafes and what-not. As Cairo is a highly dense city,
it’s almost impossible to find an empty plot of land to build a house. And the dwellers of “City of the Dead” are mostly poor Egyptians from all over Egypt who left their hometown to seek a better life in Cairo..only to be shocked later on, knowing how difficult life is over there as well.
I seem to digress from the real issue here. Sorry.
Yes, it is permissible to visit the graveyard..i suppose the ruling only applies to Saudi Arabia.
Have a good weekend everyone!
Do not despair fans of the Airplane Roundabout! It will be back. After they finish the bridge that’s replacing the roundabout the plane will be put back. Right now it’s enjoying a vacation in the municipality warehouse.
Saudi Jawa, but will the airplane be in the same place? Where are they going to place it when there is no roundabout?
Its good to hear though.
Hello, thank you this was very interesting!
I have heard that there is talk to rule that one eye must be covered by ladies now wearing full abaya- is this true?
Thanks lovefrom1stbite, I call it the Human Factor…
Yes Nefertiti, that’s exactly the place! It is interesting to me even more so because while I was told it was not a good “idea” to visit the Pyramids (tombs that they are); everyone wanted me to go to the “City of the Dead”!
aahh the contradictions of life…
Hi Samantha and welcome the blog. Glad you enjoyed the post. There has been recent press reports promoting the fully covered “one-eyed” head cover but that’s all…it is not something that is enforced although there are already some women who prefer this.
So in KSA they have one rule for men, and another one for women on visiting graveyards?
That is coming as a real surprise?
How odd???
Salaams Carol:
Speaking of Jeddah, why don’t you write a post about the writer Raja Alem. I believe she lives there now.
Salam Safiyyah,
Thank you for the info and the suggestion.
And…just when I thought I couldn’t be further amazed…I learn of another restriction placed on Saudi women…they can not visit a graveyard. Yes…there appears in the comments to be some discrepancy. However, the very fact that it’s being discussed means to me there was/is some type of restriction; which is absolutely ridiculous.
I know it’s not the subject of this post, but I would like to see a list of what Saudi women can do without any debate what-so-ever.
Even the individual (woman) whose article I linked about visiting the site in Jeddah was prohibited from entering in spite of being a professional journalist due to the fact she is female. So yes, it is confusing.
BCIS: stay in the home, cook, clean and have babies.
I do find it a very intriguing idea, that the grave of ”Eve” is located in Jeddah.
Research in mytochondrical DNA have shown that the whole of humanity outside Africa is descended from one woman who left Africa very long ago, and the route of migration did go through the arab penisular.
So from a scientific point of view it’s quite possible!
Aafke — are you really an anthropoligist? You always know so many very interesting facts. I love your comments as I am always learning something new from you.
Bedu, I’m a nerd….
with a big mouth….
Then please never change! (smile)
One thing i never failed to enjoy during my 2 umrah trips is to see the various sculptures that dots around Jeddah. Its like a huge museum although I had more time to appreciate each and every one of them.
I’m curious: Does Jeddah or Riyadh have art museums be it Islamic or contemporary arts? Visiting museums after performing the Umrah will be a refreshing change, now that there’s a direct flight to Riyadh from Singapore.
*although I wished I had more time to appreciate each and everyone of them.
Firdaus,
Jeddah has some museums but I’ll need someone from there to give you the info as I am not as familar with Jeddah. And of course in Riyadh there is the National Museum (among others) which is a must see. However be careful for umrah visas are generally restricted to Makkah and Jeddah.
Thanks Carol. I just had some problems lately with sending comments with my regular username, also I cant access my blog for some reason. So I had to reach you somehow
so thanks for your help & suggestions.
My pleasure 1stbite!
[...] Jeddah has many hidden secrets and I’ve recently become aware of yet another one of its secrets: Madame la Reine’s. Madame la Reine’s is a specialty store providing authentic, pre-owned clothes, jewelry, handbags and other accessories. Madame la Reine’s only accepts items in excellent condition and by known designers and then resells these items at discounted costs. The original owner, whose identity remains private, will also receive a percentage of the sale. One can easily find items by Gucci, Prada, Chanel, Dior and many other known designers at Madame la Reine. Shopping at Madame la Reines is done by appointment which allows customers the time and space to browse as well as try things on. [...]
I’ve lived in Jeddah for 20 years and until nowadays I keep exploring for the first places which exist from a long time ago; Jeddah is very big and it’s hard to know everything happen there!
And to whom consider I know some of the museums there like:
Tibat city museum
King Abdul Aziz university museum
Jeddah Museum, the Center for Science and Technology
And the most famous one Abdul Raouf Khaleel museum in tahliyah street
Enjoy!
M2T – thanks for sharing the information. I don’t live in Jeddah and these places sound very interesting. I hope I can see them sometime.
[...] airports within the Kingdom will also have flights to Jeddah. The Al Tayabat is only one of the many many treasures to explore and enjoy in Jeddah. And for where to stay, don’t forget to check out [...]
birks jewelry
[...] In fact, many view the city of Jeddah as a holy place since Jeddah is also believed to be where Eve, the mother of all mothers, has been buried. Hence, it’s named Jeddah. However, back to the [...]
Having been to the location of the “church”, I have to say that I’m sceptical of both the origins of this building and its supposed use as a church. Architecturally, the building is no doubt old as there is no electrical circuit embedded in the walls of the building and the house is made of coral blocks. However, both of these could have been factors in houses built in Jeddah as late as 1950. This doesn’t distract from my view that the building is very old, certainly older than 60 years and my guess is that it is at least 150 years old. The building had been used at least until the end of the first half of the last century. This is evident in the use of fluorescent tube lighting, of which the fittings are still attached to the walls. Commercial fluorescent bulbs only became common in the 1930′s. There are also remains of a ceramic toilet bowl and plastic cistern in one of the bathrooms. This style of toilet, where the cistern is not raised high above the toilet bowl, only began to be seen in Europe around 1910 and one would guess that it would arrive in the Hejaz sometime after that.
The building plans also cast doubt on use of the building as a church. The ground floor is made up of small rooms that include a bathroom and another similar small room that looks like it may have also been a toilet or bathroom. The front entrance of the building opens into a small foyer or anteroom, and this is flanked by two small rooms that may have been reception rooms; possibly one for men and one for women. This may explain the two similar bathrooms next to each other and with doors facing opposite sides of the building. Beyond these rooms are three other rooms, one of which has been obliterated. One of these I would assume to be a kitchen, most likely the smallest of the three that has an entrance to one of the possible reception rooms. The other two are comfortably separated enough from the other rooms and large enough to suggest that they could have been bedrooms. All of these factors lead me to believe that this was most likely a residence.
The exception to my theory may lie in the upper floor, which is inaccessible and even if one could climb onto it, would be very dangerous and is not recommended. The area seems to be open and there is no suggestion that it was divided by walls. By the same token, although there is an archway that leads out on to a balcony, there is nothing to suggest that there was an actual door in the archway and there is evidence that the upstairs area was not enclosed by a wall, but rather surrounded by pillars. This leads me to believe that the area was open, possibly with a beam supported roof on stilts. Open or not, this area may have been used to hold sermons.
I am not an architect or an historian, but having grown up in South Africa, surrounded by Dutch architecture, I would say that the building is almost certainly Dutch and my theory would be to suggest that the building was originally a residence, perhaps that of a merchant. These are simply my perceptions and the site is most definitely worth a visit. It is very interesting and one can’t help, but get the feeling of Jeddah a hundred years ago when it was a more charming and friendly place than the tip it is now.
Gaff – thanks for sharing and giving such a detailed description.