Women continue to be legally prohibited from driving in Saudi Arabia. So for the women 
who does not have her own personal driver or a husband or son readily available to drive her when she needs to be out and about, she must rely on other transport alternatives. If a woman is living on a compound, the compound will generally have regular bus services (provided by the compound) which take residents to local grocery stores and shopping areas of interest. These services are safe and reliable. Some grocery stores or large shopping malls will also have shuttle services providing transport to customers who live in a certain radius from their location. Because the management of the grocery store or mall is taking responsibility for the service, this option of transport also falls in the category of reliable and safe.
By now you are noticing my theme here in reliable and safe. For women who must travel with someone unknown to them, reliable and safe is essential. And of course the highest emphasis must be placed on safe. Safe not only as a conscientious driver but as a driver who will not try to take advantage of or harm a woman who for whatever reason is traveling alone.
A majority of women who need to rely on public transport services will engage the use of private or semi-private limo firms. These firms usually consist of a pool of drivers who know the Kingdom and speak both English and Arabic. They will drive late model cars which usually have darkened windows in the back to afford the women greater privacy. Such limo drivers are generally from India and Pakistan. In my view, the private limo is the best option for the woman in Saudi Arabia who has to rely on an unknown driver to transport her.
However when using services of a private limo there are some guidelines which are prudent for a woman to follow. The western (American) tendency is to be open and engaging with people. Such a trait should be tempered and reined in when using the services of the limo transport. The drivers will indeed be courteous and polite and happy to engage in conversation. But sometimes if one is viewed as “too friendly and engaging” with a driver, he may be tempted or led to believe he can cross the line with either inappropriate actions or words to his female customer. A week ago I would not have thought to write such a warning but I since learned a case of a western woman who has been using such a service.
This woman is in the unique situation of being a western divorcee in the Kingdom with a young child. She also does not have a traditional mahrem who looks out for her and protects her. Therefore for transport, she relies on private limo services. She was using the services of one specific driver for a period of time. While transporting her they would engage in general chit chat. A few times he held her baby while she ran her errands. Last week after using his services and exiting the vehicle, he touched her inappropriately. She was shocked but did not say anything at the time instead focusing on gathering her baby and getting away from him. Later that same night he followed up with another inappropriate action by sending her a text message which contained a pornographic image. Needless to say this driver has been reported and blacklisted. Although this action does raise the question on whether such an incident would have incurred if the woman had not been as friendly and open with the driver?
This post would not be complete if I also did not address on the use of public taxis. While I do know women who will use public taxis such as the white vehicles on the streets which display the “taxi” logo atop the roof, I do not recommend this for many reasons. These taxi drivers can be from anywhere in the world, including Saudi Arabia. Most of them are probably trying to make an honest living. But they can turn into a different character when a single woman enters into the back of their cab. Oftentimes there is no meter in the cab so prices must always be negotiated. This individual is truly an unknown character and therefore you do not know his record of safety, security and reliability. There have been tragic tales of taxi drivers taking female passengers out to the desert where they are raped and mugged. In some cases they have been murdered or left in the desert to perish. Some of these taxi drivers view an unaccompanied woman out by herself with disdain and while smiling and offering to provide her transport, in their minds she is actually less than chattel.
So how is the best way to find and identify a public driving service who is safe, secure and reliable? Word of mouth usually works best in the Kingdom. Also, employers can usually provide recommendations as well.
Filed under: Saudi Arabia, Saudi culture, Saudi customs, Women Issues, culture, gender, travel, women driving
Many American women learn the hard way to leave their American friendliness back home. It is always misinterpreted, not only by drivers, and not only in Saudi Arabia.
Very true!
Bedu-I learned to keep my trap shut in most types of public transports even before going to the ME- New York is not the place to be too friendly either- we got attitude here (and I don’t say this proudly either)… So when I started going to the ME I was doubly cautious- one my Arabic was too “accent” prone for my own good- and well honestly Arabs (men) reminded me of Latin men- to be extremely cautious with (with really capital letters)…so I went with what I knew… Good thing too…
So yes Bedu, by all means please put up those “buyer beware” signs with taxis and other types of public transportation for both foreign women and “foreign” women.
But then let me ask you- how do the families that have non related designated drivers for their women screen these men? Is there a process? Background checks and such; or trial periods of some sort; recommendations?
You need to state it bluntly to anyone that is new to the middle east: The region is filled with men from different countries and cultures which may have limited access to women, intermingling between sexes and/or education. Therefore, many of these men are purely unable to determine what is appropriate behaviour (appropriate to modern, educated standards, not their “different” standards) around females. They might take simple eye contact as a sign that could mean anything from friendliness to “Oh, she’s a prostitute. Cool! Here comes the 40 year old virgin baby!”.
All countries have these types of people, just some countries have more than others.
In the UAE, my partner who is form the Philippines, cannot walk around alone without these men stopping in their car expecting her to give a “ride for a ride”. Including taxi drivers. This doesn’t happen im my country anywhere near to the rampant extent that it does here. All the men who stop are either Arabic, Emirati or South Asian (India, Pakistan, Afghanistan). No westerners, no south-east Asians, no Africans.
But thats ok! It’s the mens fault and further sex segregation will protect the women more right!? It’s a vicious cycle. The more you segregate the worse the problem becomes.
If anyone disagrees with me, explain why in Australia, we don’t need to forcefully segregate men and women for the women to feel safe around strange men on the street or even walking around their neighbourhood? Is it purely educational, is it cultural, is it religious, is it because of the fact that we don’t deny each other basic natural social opportunities or is it something else? I know South Africa has the highest rape stats in the world (something like 30% of women living their for a lifetime will be raped once) but I dont know why either. Perhaps poverty has something to do with that one?
I agree that you can’t change things overnight though and I hope one day men in this world are able to control their behaviour regardless of culture or religion so that forced segregation can be seen for the sham that it really is. It seems to me those that appreciate it are those that know nothing else or have had really bad past abusive experiences so now feel safe under this false security blanket.
So everyone has “heard” the stories of taxi drivers taking women into the desert and raping them, leaving them for dead or even killing them. I have never not once been able to verify this. Nothing like this has been reported in the press it is all urban legends.. lengends which ensure that women are less mobile, and impose a self restriction of movement out of fear. I had an American friend who ‘heard the stories’ and refused to get into a taxi. Until one day she bit the bullet and got in a taxi. She limited her movements to the point where she was miserable all due to the “stories” of one friend of a friend of a friend who knows someone. I say blaaahh
This is not to say that taxi drivers are not inappropriate at times, they are. As are some guys in the malls and so on. I think women need to be a bit more harsh, standoffish, and firm to the point of being rude. If any many approaches, touches, or is inappropriate with a woman the woman needs to stand up for herself right then and there if possible. Not always possible but often times you can grab a Saudi man off the streat unknown to you to beat down or in the least drive away a pervert. (Yes I have done that lol)
I take whatever taxi is available. If I get a strange vibe than it is time to exit the vehicle. If your a woman constantly alone, take the precautions like you would anywhere else in the world. Learn what to do and what not to do and defend yourself whenver possible. I would suggest some pepper spray or something for a woman living alone and having to do it all herself.
Ray- I have to say that Saudi, or other GCC countries don’t hold a monopoly on perverts. I also don’t agree that segregation causes men to be perverts. Australia although I think is a wonderful place isn’t free from sexual perverts who harass women or even rape them. And strangely enough in Australia most sexual assualts happens in womens own homes according to their own statistics
http://www.aic.gov.au/topics/violence/sexual_assault/stats/location.html
Women alone all over the world have to take percautions and be more alert around men all over the world. Even in the most educated of crowds doesn’t mean that women are sexually harassed or assualted. Unfortunately this is our reality.
btw with rapes in South Africa you have to include the thought that curing aids comes with having sex with a virgin. Much of the rapes are against young girls, even small female children in the believe a mans aids will be cured. it has some of the highest crime statistics overall.
No they dont hold a monopoly, like I said these people can come from any country and exist in any country. This region has more than enough already and the ones who act annoying and threatening tend to be more from the areas I stated.
The main thing that annoys me is that women cannot walk alone here without some kind of harassment occuring. Sometimes daily. That is just plain ridiculous.
Ryan, when I was a little girl my mother taught me to not eat hotdogs, ice cream, or pickles in public. She said that it gave some men suggestive thoughts. `This was in America
My grandmother cut off a white man’s penis who tried to rape her. `This was in America
My mother was to afriad to send my brother and sister to the store when I was growing up. She didn’t want thugs to harrass him and my sister was too uppidty. She would send me, by the time I was 10 years old grown men wouild see me walking down the street and call me , ‘juicy’, ‘and jail bait’ ,offer to drink my bath water, and all other types of sexual harrassment. `This was in America
I’ve had professors in University makeme feel uneasy during their office hours. This was in America
I had a male coworker offer to take me to work, only to have him drive me out in the middle of the forest Preserves, but before he could do whatever he planned on doing I was saved. This was in America
I can recognize the wisdom of the prohibitions of men and women being alone and unnessecarily interminling, because I have lived and learned. I grew up hanging out with my brother and his friends and my male cousins and their friends. I actually get along better with men than with women. I sometimes miss hanging out with the guys and to be honest I am not shy. I will talk to men if there is a need. I just don’t have casual relationships with them anymore.
I don’t share the view that there is forced gender segregation. Whoever wants to be around the opposite sex will find a way. I appreciate not being forced to to deal with men unneccessarily.
The point I’m trying to make is that in my experiences, I’ve never known anyone to wish they had gender segregation as a part of their life or at least tell it to me out loud. Those experiences of yours, of which there are many, are something I don’t know anyone else has experienced in my country to that extent. I did ask, isn’t the Chicago area one of the worst for crime? I only know of friends and ex-girlfriends who have been abused by relatives, where even in Saudi they would have been allowed to mix. One by a brother of a friend. The rest I’ve no knowledge of and certainly none of my friends, family or associates feel uncomfortable conversing with, being with, dating or working with men. Most aren’t scared to jog around the park at night or catch a taxi at night. I guess I’m just lucky to be a citizen of such a country…
I believe it is forced segregation in Saudi because of your muttawa and the laws for “khalwat”. The threat is always hanging over the heads of those that commit this “crime”. I refuse to travel over to Sharjah in the UAE because they also enforce it, I would refuse to travel to Saudi because they enforce it. I never know what might happen if I go offroading through Sharjah one day and a police car stops a bunch of friends travelling together because we arent bloody married/related! I have strong opinions and feelings on it. Whilst some may appreciate not dealing with “evil” men unnecessarily, in a free country, you can always “choose” not to travel alone with a man, or be alone in a room with a man. That is the difference. Freedom. You can’t make that choice in Saudi because the only other option is one that will lead to guaranteed punishment if you are caught.
Considering your experiences in the USA, mine in Australia and everyones in Saudi Arabia, I’m not saying either of them is perfect but you can see the vast differences that exist between them. Not in a billion years would I wish to have a law enacted that could get me punished for committing something as normal as “khalwat”. I can’t really imagine anyone other than the most hardline muslims choosing it either, assuming they had the choice in the first place. Or at least not the types of punishment that get dished out for committing it.
How could I forget this?
“The more you segregate the worse the problem becomes.
If anyone disagrees with me, explain why in Australia, we don’t need to forcefully segregate men and women for the women to feel safe around strange men on the street or even walking around their neighbourhood?”
This is really absurd. segregation doesn’t worsen the problem. It doesn’t eliminate it either. What it does is lessens the problem…reduces the risk. What you said is so NOT true. Women in the West don’t feel safe! They carry mace, pepper sprays, knives, and handguns! Women in the west are kidnapped, raped and murdered far more than women in Saudi. I would even go as far as guessing that men and boys in saudi are morelikely to be attacked by a STRANGER than a woman or girl. In both societies crimes are committed in the homes that are not always reported.
I can’t believe that you would even say this, it doesn’t make sense at all. Unless Australia is really different from America. In America I was taught how to ‘act crazy’ on the trains if I was worried. Or how to sit in a Taxi with your hand on the door and the door unlocked, not to mention to NEVER get in a Taxi that was not dispatched to your home and if you did then make sure someone wrote down the license number and driver id just in case! Growing up my mother taught us to NEVER EVER take the same route. You just never knew who nwas watching you and you had to shake up the program a bit.
In college I majored in psychology and one of my professorsput togther a camous rape advocate group and was trained. The rape stats on college campuses alone are reason enough for you bto retract your statement.
Ryan, I get your point about having a choice. This is why you will not hear me running around promoting hijab or gender segregation. as I have said numerous times, I only wear hijab and not mingle with men for religious reasons. I am not the type to sit around writing poetry about it. However, I do see the wisdom in both. What I don’t like is when the opposite view is shoved down peoples throat. You speak of choice. You chose to come to this part of the world. You can choose to return home, if you have a problem with it. Instead you and others sit around and complain about all that they either don’t understand or don’t agree with. Of course that is your right of free speech!
Well I’d say my city back home isn’t like yours in the states. Women don’t get taught how to act on the train if someone starts harassing them, they dont generally need to. Not that we don’t have our fair share of train violence but it’s not so common that we need to learn how to deal with emergency situations. They don’t learn how to sit with hands on handles and locks in taxis or recording the license number to give to a friend. We don’t need to mix up our routes. I don’t fear for my safety walking the streets of most suburbs back home, except the government housing ones and the native communities which aren’t even entered by police unless there are multiple vehicles available. To tell you the truth, I’ve never had a conversation with a woman specifically about the dangers of being a woman there because it really isn’t an issue.
Yes, I too don’t push it down other peoples throats. On a blog however, we are all here to speak our minds. I like Carol’s because she doesn’t always orient her posts towards her opinion, rather letting the comments sort out individual opinions for themselves. I like the mix of moderates and semi-crazies.
Asalamu Alaikum Carol,
I have been waiting for this!
I agree with you that the private limos provide the most safety for women. A woman traveling alone in the regular taxis always comes with some risks because she can’t second guess the character of the man driving.
Since I started school, I have had to deal with the regular taxis in the afternoons coming home. I actually make du’a that Allah grant me a good taxi driver. And before I get in, I tell them where I want to go and quote a price. If they don’t accept it then I let them go. Once inside, I don’t talk to them unless they ask for clarification on the directions and I never make eye contact.
On one occasion, a taxi driver tried to get too friendly with me by asking what nationality I was. I told him my husband doesn’t like me talking to men and that shut him up. Another time a driver agreed to my price but when we arrived at my residence, he tried to tell me to pay the price on the meter. I told him”laa 25 riyals, khalas” and got out of the taxi. He still tried to convince me as I closed the door and as I was walking away he kept honking his horn. I closed the outside door to my building so that he wouldn’t try to follow me inside to my flat.
Also, when I get ready to pay the fare I give the money to my four year old son to give it to the driver. This ensures the driver won’t “accidentally” touch my hand and leaves no room for hanky panky.
I have learned the hard way in Bahrain riding taxis and they are much worse than the taxis in Saudi Arabia.
Tara Umm Omar
very interesting comments from all. In regards to background checks of the unrelated drivers whom individuals engage, that does not really happen here like one would expect in the West. If one sponsors a driver through an agency one can hope at least preliminary checks have been done but do not “assume” or take anything for granted. And many who engage a “local” driver usually do so by word of mouth recommendations.
Ryan,
How are you able to speak for women’s experiences? You are not. You are a man and are conditioned, “trained” and treated differently.
“To tell you the truth, I’ve never had a conversation with a woman specifically about the dangers of being a woman there because it really isn’t an issue.”
Nope. You never had that talk because it is a non-issue for YOU.
Umm Adam
There is a good and bad in every society. If people living in that region want to raise certain issues then they should do so without being told to go back home or shut up and put up with it.
My experience of sexual harrassment and groping living in the ME taught me to not smile back at men, not to make eye contact. Both give out the wrong signals. So when i was recently in Dubai an old man smiled at me, he was around my grandfather’s age. I gave him a warm smile back as a sign of respect and did not suspect anything. Big mistake. He kept following me around the shopping centre, he stood outside the shops until i decided to leave and get a bus to another part of the city to escape him.
kaalimaat, with all due respect, get real! Ryan is a kafir in every since of the word who hates all things islamic. his issue is that he does not have easy access to to women and his eye hustling is limited! If a kafir comes to the /muslim world and comlains about what Allah and His Messenger have ordained (proper hijab and not being alone with non relative men), then they should put up shut up or get the hell out!
Well – I guess it would be a little unfair to blame the drivers only – I have heard a lots of stories from many drivers whose services I myself have been using. During my earlier days in Saudi, I thought its just the self made stories by these drivers and they are not to be believed in but there is not a single day when I was not coming across a driver who was not telling his fantasizing stories of lust & pleasure that how he was treated – needless to mention otherwise it’ll get a little more than blunt – but anyhow, instead of throwing all the blames on drivers – there are cases when the ‘passenger’ asks for services other than limo.
If I am correct, Ryan is in the UAE with a partner and therefore in a very different environment than Saudi Arabia. I think it is way too harsh to come out and call him a kafir and not in keeping with expressing views and encouraging dialogues. One can certainly disagree but there are more tactful and diplomatic ways to do so.
Yes; I’ve heard the stories of in some cases women do in fact have close bonds with their drivers. And you’ll hear the tales of women who are traditional in the sense of not being exposed to unrelated men but will “practice” wiles and charm on drivers. So of course issues can go both ways.
But I underscore that as western guests in a conservative country a woman needs to be perhaps less open and more conservative herself so as not to inadverantly advertise a totally incorrect message to a driver who has become more accustomed to the conservative environment.
Umm Adam
You come across as one of those muslims who likes to use the word “kafir” to discredit other’s views, opinions and as an insult as well. Ryan being a non muslim does not invalidate his own experience. Greater openess in the ME between the sexes from a young age and also between female and male relatives is good. Forced segregation imposed on people only leads to the sexualisation of normal activities and people’s thoughts. Maybe you consider working alongside men to be “alone with non relative men”, i dont take that view. Meeting a man in his house for example for a date is what i consider being with a non relative man.
To tell you the truth, I’ve never had a conversation with a woman specifically about the dangers of being a woman there because it really isn’t an issue.>>
Ryan you wouldn’t really talk about it because you are a man, as someone pointed out it really isn’t an issue for you. But crime does happen, majority of sexual crimes are against women (does happen with men but rarely) even in your country Australia.
Is the threat on level with other countries? Probably not. Yes I agree there are one too many perverts on the streets for me in Saudi. I’ve had my own encounters, but I also don’t have an issue daily. I can count on one hand my encounters, some of them stranger than others. I think much of it has to do with the ethnicity of your partner. I have a friend who is from the Phillipines and she can relate the differences to me in treatment she recieves here than what I do as a white American woman. I think that is about a whole other issue of probems but not necessarily one related to segregation.
Again I’m not one who believes that segregation in and of itself is the cause of negative behavorial issues with men. I do think there is a huge conflict between seggregation and the visuals of sex in Saudi via the media. Add in that there are issues with openess when it comes to discussing sexual issues which will impact sexual frustrations among males and even females in the society and not being taught how to properly deal with them. But seggregation alone doesn’t necessarily breed a bunch of perverts
I would just comment that my Saudi husband lived and worked in Australia for six years and continues to tell everyone of his positive experiences there on all issues – rights and treatment of women; hospitality; openness; progressive; safety. He continues to encourage family members (male AND female) to investigate education opportunities there as compared to the States or Europe.
Ryan is a self proclaimed kafir, there is nothing harsh about calling him what he is. If you want to asee undiplomatic and harsh then read his comments on my blog under the name UNBELIEVER.
Carol, yes is in nthe UAE but he has complained about there as well.
Kaalimaat – amazing how you are trying to call me out and will defend this kafir who has admitted to hating Islam and is extremely disrespectful of the Muslim believe. Say what you want to say about me. You’ve let your bad experiences leave you jaded. Birds of a feather…
and BTW I don’t view working along side men as being alone with a non relative man. I’m not stupid you know! Alone is alone…you, him, and of course Shaytaan.
Umm Adam – In regards to my blog and comments made here we will simply agree to disagree. In my view Ryan has made good and valid contributions which have certainly stimulated continued discussion (to include your own comments). And -if- he hates Islam (which I have not specifically read from him), guess what…that is his choice and does not preclude him from participating and sharing his views. Not everyone has chosen to love and embrace Islam.
Umm Adam
I will defend what i consider to be right whether it comes from a “kafir” or a muslim. I can only judge Ryan on the comments he made here. Unlike you, i have never let my bad experiences stereotype others.
I will not leave my civilized American friendliness at home. I will, additionally, break the arm of any man stupid enough to believe that a smile and “how are you” means I’m easy.
Unfortunately, being Saudi Arabia, this will automatically make me at fault, me a criminal, and more than likely me the loose and easy prostitute who clearly wanted to be abused.
I will break their arm anyway. And I will still smile and be polite to the next person I see. Saudi, filipino, male or female.
p.s our hospital vets the taxis allowed on the compounds or hospital campus and noone else is allowed. all else fails, take the bus to work and catch taxi there.
Breaking an arm now and then is só educative
American Bedu…thanks for this post. It was informative. My husband told me already to only use the taxis available on the compound. But…that still doesn’t take away from how you’re perceived and I’m the chatty type…but I tell you…I put up with zero crap, which might just get me into trouble. My inclination after reading this it to: not be friendly, and definitely don’t smile at them.
BTW: I’m a 44 year old American woman, I’ve never really felt “unsafe”; (nor have I been raped or harrassed) but I’m always conscious of my environment; for example, I wouldn’t walk down a dark alley (duh), and when someone’s walking behind me…I may turn around, just to eye ball them, like, “I see your ass”. I call it working with my “fear factor” (i.e. intuition), being rational but aware. There’s an excellent book on this topic (fear) titled: The Gift of Fear : Survival Signals That Protect Us From Violence
Have a Great Day!!
I really do appreciate all the diverse comments and glad that this post has also proven useful too.
Ummadam-How do you know Ryan is also the troll on your blog? If that is true, it puts quite a spin on things.
Kaalimaat-You generalized Ummadam as “one of those Muslims” but then followed up by insisting you don’t stereotype others. That is stereotyping. Replace “Muslims” with blacks, women, mothers, etc and you may see how that is stereotyping.
RE Kaffir: I still feel uneasy when someone uses the word “kaffir.” I think this has to do with my associating it with derogatory words such as nigger or fag. But as far as I know it is not actually a derogatory, even if that is how someone may intend to use it. The Prophet (sallallaahu ‘alayhe wa sallam) used the word kaffir. So, I try to remember that when I hear “kaffir” –it is not a slur, nor a term of endearment–it is what it is.
Love and Peace,
~Brooke
Thank you for your very informative and interesting blog. As a Western woman who will be moving to the Kingdom next year, I am intent on taking to heart all that I read here. My goal, and that of my family, is to be respectful of the culture and traditions and to apologize if we inadvertently offend or transgress. We have been told that we will be allowed some slack, as it were, if it is clear that we are not doing anything deliberately outrageous – although we are aware that ‘outrageous’ is a relative term.
I have spent the last two decades living in Chicago and although I am not American, the people here have been unfailingly kind. My women friends, and they are many, do not fall into either of Ummadam’s categories of “bitches and hos”. They are bright and interesting women who put the welfare of their family above all else. They have enriched my life and I am the better for having known them
I am looking forward to learning about Saudi Arabia just as, so many years ago, I learned about the US. I am aware that, given the conservative nature of Saudi society, that the adventure will be different. Exciting and different.
Bedu it does seem “intriguing” that for a country where the social rules of the individual are carefully monitired; they would not impose exhaustive background checks on all drivers… And especially the protectors of the family women- if I were a man I would like to investigate every “hell” hole or not that driver has ever passed by, into or around and with whom…then I would be in a better position to judge the man’s character and see if he is up to snuf… But then I am not a man, so it is then merely a suggestive comment…
In Yemen for example its come out a few times in the press of what the natives do if a woman takes a taxi by herself off the street… Last time I was there the talk about town was to create a taxi service of women drivers for women and children…but I don’t know if anything came of it since women can and do drive in Yemen.
But of course this last is not, at the moment or for the foreseeable future, an option in Saudi. Though I do think Omani’s have female taxi drivers.
Not to start the argument again with Ryan, but being an Australian woman currently living here I would say that he is correct. I have never felt unease or unsafe in any environment in Australia.
Women here don’t carry Mace, knives or handguns (because it is illegal for one) but also becuase there is no need to. I was taught as a child to trust my gut instincts that if I feel unease etc that I should remove myself from the situation, which I have used in many of the countries I have travelled to and lived in.
I can understand where Ryan is coming from as Australia does have a very unique culture, quite different from most western countries, perhaps because we are so far away!
I like to use Malaysia, a muslim country, as a good example of where there is not enforced segregation or enforced cover for women as a basis of what is right with Islam. A place where I have lived and also felt very very safe.
So perhaps it’s worth more women trusting there “gut” when deciding whom to ride with when wanting to get around.
Ah yes, I am aware of your blog ummadam and have looked at it from time to time, and I dont comment on it. I do however, know the person you are referring to, (very well – we work together and known each other for years) and I dont have anything to do with what he is posting so I wont comment on that. I don’t really care what other people want to write but please dont say it is me. I dont hate islam, I just dont agree with it but I dont really agree with any religions so there. If I hated it, Id just say it. Im not worried about what strangers think!
Welcome Irish to the blog! I hope you will comment more and please do not be shy to ask your questions. It sounds like you are coming to Saudi Arabia with the right attitude and will make it a very positive experience for you and your family.
Inal – If I’ve said it once I’ve probably said it 200 times since my blog began, Saudi Arabia is much about contrast and contradictions. In fact I have had in-depth discussions with Saudis (male and female) about the drivers and relationship of the drivers. Stay tuned…a future post will be forthcoming on this very topic.
In general the same checks usually apply for both housemaids and drivers and both are playing a critical role in the home/life of their employer.
Yes – one should attempt to learn as much as possible about their driver and verify as well. And a lot also is taken on ‘gut instinct’ too.
Aussiegirl I’ve also spent heaps of time in Malaysia and love it there. They are an example of a muslim country I can easily enjoy. Their sharia law doesn’t affect me because I’m not one so I come under their civil law. Muslims still must abide by their own laws and get prosecuted under their own laws. They don’t go to the pubs and clubs I go to, they don’t eat at the chinese restaurants and street side stalls serving pork where I eat. Everyone can enjoy their own culture without worrying about someone else poking their nose in!
Wow Ryan, you and “Unbeliever” work in the same area–as in the same IP and you both enjoy reading women-expats-in-Saudi blogs and commenting on them–from work computers, right? Do I have this right? You come here and discuss Saudi culture and Islam (both of which you seem rather unfond of, though you do love the paycheck) with similar “open-minded” folks. Your co-worker who shares the same IP regularly visits Ummadam and bashes Saudi culture and Islam–though he openly displays disdain, but probably also enjoys his paycheck. What a small world. Your co-worker has similary expressed that he is not concerned with what “strangers” think–yet you both keep chatting with them.
Brooke, guess what? I have no need to justify it anymore! I don’t really care if you or anyone else doesn’t believe me. And we we’ve been friends before we worked together… since high school. Go on, continue your investigative analysis. We also share a flat together. Want my home address too?
I’ll continue to comment here, I won’t comment on Ummadams blog though it can be a laugh for both him and I. If you have an issue with his comments, please go take it up with someone else. I guess blog moderation is always an option.
Oh and I was the one that pointed both of these blogs out one night over a colourful personal discussion over something crazy written here or there I undoubtedly noticed about Saudi Arabia. Maybe you can join us one night? Though I think your ears would be burning up in rage listening in to such “kafir talk”. Anyway, thats enough of my private life. If I wanted to share more I’d start a whiny daily online journal of everything that happened. I think I’ll just whine in here instead (No offense intended to Carols blog with that comment btw – I don’t hang out in whiny personal blogs
).
aussiegirl- I’ve visitied australia, Brisbane to be exact and while I do agree it is relatively safe unlike say a city like New York I have to disagree that women don’t think about it. As i left my hotel room to go to a market with my daughter, it was night time and the short cut was through a small but very dark park. Male voices came from inside and I decided we will take the long way. During my stay there there was a case of a man who brutally raped a three year old girl. And while people are very friendly we were told by the clerk not to let our guard down as travellers we could be seen as targets by some trying to rip us off.
And to say that this doesn’t exist in Austrlia is mooted by the fact that you as an Australian woman were told while growing up by other women in your family to “use your gut”.
And I so love Malaysia, I seriously should get paid by the Malaysian tourist board for how much business I point their way. But it has its own sets of gender isses as well like any place in the world.
My point in all of this is, that saudi holds no monopoly on harassment againts women. We can find it in every country on this earth all to varrying degrees. Some worse than others but as women we have to be aware.
It really is just good common sense regardless of where one is to be aware of your surroundings. Whether we like it or not, incidents can and do happen anywhere in the world. I’m not suggesting to be paranoid but just don’t randomly go blindly. For example, a lot of women do indeed come here to Saudi Arabia without having done any kind of research. They see the offer they have received, the salary they will receive, free housing and think “aha…jackpot…this is paradise.” But then they arrive and other realities of life here which is contradictory to their culture and customs sets in and they have major culture shock. Some adjust, some don’t.
Geez, talk about massive paranoia from some of the commenters here. Some of you should go join the CIA or something with all your assumptions, and covert sleuthing going on here.
One thing I’ve always found strange about the taxi business is that I’ve never ridden in one with a female driver. I’ve actually never even seen a female driver before, not even in the States. Always found it to be a bit odd. It seems like the sort of job a woman could do fairly well, seeing as how women are infinitely better drivers than men
One question that i’ve been wondering about… since Saudi has such strict gender segregation policies what happens if it’s just one woman who needs a ride in a taxi (or a private chauffeur) with an obviously unrelated male driver? Are these instances where the complete segregation is just ignored? If that’s the case I find it to be kind of odd. It seems like a pretty good time for some hankypanky action or something, what with the tinted windows and all that.
*change “ridden” to rode…. Or not… my grammar sucks, sorry
It seems that it’s a global phenomenon that men jump out and give judgment on behalf of the other half of the society. I like to follow my friend footstep.. My friend was earlier this year at the airport of Sidney, Australia. He was traveling with his wife. The male-officer approach him and told him Can I search your wife, or does she want a female to search her. My friend told him ask her, she is in front of you, isn’t she? His wife replied and said, I’d prefer that a woman search me. of course, that was so kind of the officer to ask, and to offer that a female search the wife, but couldn’t he just directly address her! For me, I took it as if he is implying that the man will speak on her behalf. Please, don’t tell me this was out of respect. I’m a Muslim, and seriously, I’ll be offended if someone talk with me while ignoring my mum/sis/wife who is sitting next to me, and want me to speak on behalf of them. Hey they are not children, they are grown ups…
I happened to attend several meetings where male and female instructors were together. No matter what the nationality or the background of the men in the meeting, they mostly tend to guide and supervise the discussion. There is a stereotype that women talk more than men, just attend any of these meetings, and the opposite will be proven
..
I suggest reading a book called “You just Don’t Understand” by Debra Tanoan. Although I read the book 5 yrs ago, from time to time I observe things around me that remind me with it — so I smile
Pease to all, and always try to put yourself in the person’s shoos before speaking up about his/her opinions or rights
Tulip – the fact that a solitary woman is indeed ’sanctioned’ or allowed to travel with a male driver in Saudi Arabia is contradictory to the culture but allowed. When I have asked Saudi men and women why this is so, you may not like the response but most have said “Because he is not viewed as a real man.” What they mean by that is he is not a Saudi but usually from India or Pakistan and therefore viewed “beneath” and not a threat to their honor as if they were to ride with an unrelated Saudi driver. There are Saudi taxi drivers but most Saudi women will not use them.
I have indeed seen (and used) female taxi drivers in the US as well as in Europe so they do exist!
Khalid – I like Debra Tannan’s books and especially as she will have quizzes or questions at the end of each chapter to reinforce the concepts discussed.
oops, I apologize, I meant to write my comment here
this is a sign it seems that I should get back my work 
.. I’ll paste it here . Sorry again ..
I’ve never been to Aus, and I really would like to go to it and NZ. My bro honeymoon was in Aus BTW. I’ll share a story that happened with my same friend who was in Sidney airport
. He went to Newcastle, Aus with his wife. It’s really a long story, but I’ll say it in as few words as I can 
He didn’t complete a night in Aus and he was beaten by 6 Ausi boys. He was living in a hotel at that time. It was his first hours in Aus. The people who beat him didn’t even looked at his face. He herd knocking on the door, he opened it , and voila hits/kicks from everywhere he got. Then, at the end when the matter went to the police, they apologized from him. they found out that the 6 guys were mistaken, they wanted to beat another guy, and they knocked on the wrong room. it happens that the guy whom they were planning to beat and my friend have almost the same weight and features 
.. BTW my friend is Saudi, and the guy whom they wanted to beat was Ausi
This incident was so popular that the Saudi cultural attaché phoned my friend and , he too apologized, and told him this is the first time that a Saudi is attacked in Aus.
Best
Khalid, that sucks. I have noticed the increasing reports of violence in the news back home too. People are starting to get really angry about it and want tougher sentences imposed. My ex-colleagues cousin was “murdered” at a showground by a young guy who whacked him over the head with a piece of wood. Though the cousin did provoke this guy to do it, the boy that hit him, was charged with manslaughter and I THINK he escaped a jail sentence. They were only in their late teens. Personally I’ve never been a victim and never really been under threat of violence anywhere there.
The violence is mainly centred around men though. Especially where drugs and alcohol are involved, which was the case there. One thing I appreciate in the Middle East and Asia is the harsh punishment for drug and alcohol offences. Though this can be taken to the extreme in places like the UAE where crumbs of the stuff or even a positive blood test can get you imprisoned.
tulip they have female taxis in Dubai, they are pink it is soo cute lol. They only take women and famiiles. I also saw a notice down the street at a local supermarket here in bahrain for services of a woman taxi driver. She advertises as a woman, which is quite smart. I’ve had several female taxi drivers in Malaysia, some who were quite a hoot to talk to. And the US does have female taxi drivers although it seems to be more men than woman in most places I’ve lived.
And saudi is full of contradictions, can’t be alone with a man.. but that doesn’t include a taxi or private driver like their not men or something. Or cleaning guys that come to many womens houses and clean. But suggesting women drive themselves than every single man turns into an uncontrolable dog in heat.. ahhh the justifications of men to hinder women.
Ryan speaking of violence in Australia I recall a very publisized incident of a muslm girl in school in a fight that was recorded. That caused many to have a whole lot to say on violence in general and now even with girls
The whole fighting amongst school kids being recorded on film is gaining popularity now. They pass it around school sharing it with everyone and on the internet. This is yet another violence problem they are facing in schools.
I totally agree with you. This post reminded me of an incident that happened to me. My friend and I needed to get from the university to the hospital, which is like only five minutes away. We always walk back and forth, but that day its was like 100 degrees and the sun was extremely hot ( seeing how I live in Jeddah) . So we decided to take a cab. A few seconds after we got in the cab the driver was like may I ask you a question, my friend and I ignored him. We were both wearing our lab coats at the time, he asked us was is the treatment of a person suffering from love!! I started hyperventilating ( because I’m the biggest chicken ever) my friend got really pissed and told him to stop the car. He was like I didn’t mean anything I just wanted to get to know you better. After that incident I never used a taxi again.
Wow – what an experience Damara! He certainly used an original line though!
And welcome to the blog!
Ryan says: “Maybe you can join us one night? Though I think your ears would be burning up in rage listening in to such “kafir talk”.
I’m joining you both right here-night and day~wink. And my eyes are far from burning-what a silly assumption. I AM American, perhaps you didn’t know. My own vernacular is deeply rooted in being a former kafir. Though I get that you are implying that you “hold back” at least on this blog. For whose sake?
Everyone holds back from time to time my dear.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I don’t hate Islam, I just don’t like the way most Muslims act and think.
Maybe Saudi Arabia can follow Iran’s example by implementing a Women’s Only taxi programme. Provided that women can drive there.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7747677.stm