An adult Saudi male who is well traveled and while a devout and proud muslim, has also attended church services with friends while outside the Kingdom. He was kind enough to share his views and observations.
According to him, the Saudi male has usually been up too late the night before Friday services so he’ll oversleep, dress hurriedly and rush to the mosque in time for the prayers. Because he is tired and grumpy he doesn’t think to smile and he is more focused on parking his car closest to the entrance of the mosque whether it is blocking anyone else’s car or not. He’ll hurriedly kick off his shoes near the entrance where they become intermingled with everyone else’s shoes who have also been kicked off in a hurry. He will enter the mosque quickly taking the nearest empty spot and hoping that the males on either side of him do not have unpleasant body odors. And if he finds that the person beside him believes he is taking up too much space and maybe poaching on the other man’s space, this man in turn will be sure to nudge into him a few times to get the message across he’s too close. Naturally he is sitting on the floor which depending on the season can be excessively cool or simply not comfortable. The Imam will eventually start his prayer but most of the time the litany will begin with how everyone is sinning and doing wrong and will go to hell. It may switch to directions to be nice to one another but again it may not. The Imam may choose to have the whole session be a lecture in wrongdoing and evil. Once the prayers are over it is time to exit but first stopping and hoping to find both of your shoes in the mass that has been collected and then when you get to your car, hope that you will not be blocked in for long given the way other cars have parked all around you. While your waiting to leave in your car you have to be patient while all the aggressive vendors gather around hoping to sell you onions, miswak, prayer beads and other miscellany. Some vendors are even known to smell onions or oud which create odors right outside of the mosque. Finally at some point you’ll return home.
Now churchgoers on the other hand will wake up early as a family. The wife may help select a nice tie for her husband to wear with his suits. The children will also dress in nice clothes. Before they leave for church they’ll have an enjoyable breakfast together as a family. On arrival at the church they’ll park their car in an orderly manner in the parking lot and as they proceed to the entrance of the church they’ll be greeted warmly with smiles, hugs and handshakes from the Minister and other parishioners. On entering the church one senses the peace and tranquility as well as the buoyant aroma in the air from the fresh flowers which adorn the altar. An elder of the church will respectfully lead the family to a comfortable pew (bench) where they will sit for the service. The minister will preach and deliver his message and usually it’s about how good people are and thanks everyone for coming to the service. Some songs may also be sung. Families will exchange smiles and wish each other peace. When the service concludes there are likely sweets for the children to enjoy. As people leave the church the Minister Is again outside to shake hands and thank his parishioners for coming. The parishioners then walk back to their orderly parked cars and depart.
Filed under: culture, islam, relationships, religion, Saudi Arabia, Saudi culture, Saudi customs, travel, Uncategorized
Carol, my experience is different . for many years I’ve not heard a single Friday sermon that I didn’t like. I hear from some people that sometimes the “khotba’ is monotonous; however, it didn’t happen that I heard such “khotba” I should note that I am bit fussy in choosing the mosque I go to . I don’t mind a busy mosque as long as the “imam ” is knowledgeable and eloquent. I might be lucky
even when I’m abroad I enjoy the Friday “khotab”
“how everyone is sinning and doing wrong and will go to hell” I attended a Sunday mass in Feb 2008, and that was the last time I entered the church. The priest, told us, that whomever doesn’t believe that Jesus is the son of God, , s/he is going to be in hell.
The shaking hand and the greeting was apparent
I shake hand with many that day 
males and females 
. Also some Muslim, I have found , they too shake hand with the person in their left and right after they are done from the prayer. I think Muslim from certain countries shake hands. I mostly notice it when I’m in “al_haram ” Makkah or abroad .
I’ve been planning to attend a synagogue on Sat since long time. I guess I have to do it soon to experience it too. We have one nearby .
Thanks for sharing your experiences, Khalid! I have had a number of Saudi men share with me that finding the right mosque to attend the Friday prayers is very important. For example although we have 2 mosques in line of sight and walking distance of our home, my husband prefers to attend one that is a short drive away.
Absolutely – the experiences at a church can also be positive or negative.
Mosques are different across the globe e.g. some US mosques (like ADAMS in Virginia) are very different and their sermons are not all fire and brimstone. They have parking attendants, HOV parking, an imam who knows people by name, lunch boxes for sale for people going back to work etc. Perhaps the diff is Saudi vs Non- Saudi rather than mosque vs church?
Also a major diff is between church and saudi mosque is that the former is a family activity while the latter is not. If adult saudi males were going to go on friday with ALL their family, and had deal with controlling their kids etc it might make them change a little
Of course now we’re talking bigger changes with families doing things together rather than breaking off into segregated gender groups (with the exception of shopping at malls)…
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This post shocked me Carol!!
Not because of you but because of the guy who have told you about it!! Thye idea of generalization is definitely WRONG!!
A mosque is not to be visited in Friday only!! There is a mosque in our street and every day, our house and our partners parking lots are filled with the praying men and women cars. My brothers even park their cars away in respect for the praying men especially in Friday so that they can give a space and ear some good deeds.
I am not praising them but my family memebers go to the mosque on a daily basis even for dawn prayer. A fight at home starts an hour earlier about their thobes being washed, ironed, and prepared so that they can go to the mosque, read some Quran and listen to the Imam befo0re they start praying. Though, they go walking to the mosque because it’s near but usually they do prepare ahead of time.
I get to hear what was the preaching about by my brothers, I don’t recall one of them saying it was a harsh one but a pleasant one merely focused on gaining Allah’s love and mercy.
A mosque usually has the biggest parking lot like the one near to my house, from two sides even. I have been there myself a few times and there wasn’t that pushing and my space thing at all. Young and children stand up in respect for the elders and hold their hands to get them seated!!
The Imam or Shaikh stand to ghreet and shake hands with the praying people. They even specify some time which is called “Religious Circles” where he gets to answer the people’s questions regarding Islam and Allah.
As for his comparison between the benches and the carpet, Christians have benches my dear because they don’t pray like Muslims!! I know they do as they call it, but if we muslims have benches in our mosques, how can muslim people perform their rekooa and sejood for God’s sake!! Our mosques have singular chairs distributed every where for those elders or with back and knee probelms to pray on.
I guess everybody has different experiences. This Saudi man who described these things clearly saw the opposite of what someone else might..
I’ve been curious about all the screaming (yes, literally, screaming) I hear from one of the 4 mosques I can see from my compound. This man sounds like he’s ripping metal, especially over the loudspeakers. It often sounds to me, with arabic and tagalog speakers here, that they’re yelling at each other..and then I find out they’re asking ‘how’s your day’ and I wonder why it has to be said so harshly. I’m not talking as someone who doesn’t understand languages and accents, I’m talking about volume and vehemence. This imam aggressively screeching at top volume all day fridays brings up one image in my head.. riling up the masses. It’s almost scary, so I frequently wish I knew what they were saying.
I too dislike..loathe.. going to christian (not catholic) church and hearing how I’m going to hell if I don’t believe what they do. So uneducated and sad this type of thing is.
HS — you’re right – while an active practicing muslim should go to the mosque for all 5 daily prayers, it is a fact that a majority make sure to never miss the Friday prayer although they may elect to pray the other prayers at home. But don’t shoot the messenger — I’m relaying perspectives and views of a Saudi and the distinctions he observed between going to the mosque on Fridays IN Saudi Arabia as compared to going to a Sunday church service in America.
In regards to hearing the imam’s, we are able to hear the imam’s from several mosques during each daily prayer. One could look at it as a benefit in that if a mosque does not have a womens’ section or someone is ill and unable to go to the mosque they do not miss out on hearing what the imam has to say.
Many imams do tend to deliver their words in a strong and passionate volume which motivates some and puts off others.
This is more or less a common pattern. What you grow up with, you learn to dislike because you are used to it. You then find peace and tranquility in all the new and amazing experiences you have abroad.
in short, the grass is greener on the other side.
To make this comment more personal, I was raised in Canada, but visited Pakistan a couple times (the most recent being four months ago).
I found the mosque experience there extremely tranquil and very peaceful.
Protestant churches, on the other hand, are something completely different,.
Interesting Abid… I lived in Pakistan twice and I guess it was just my bad luck that the last time I lived in Pakistan (2005/2006) there was a mosque near my home that on every Friday the imam seemed to relish in delivering an anti-American rhetoric. As a result, I had to be extra careful on Friday’s after prayer time if I were out and about. Sometimes immediately after the Friday prayers the participants would then stage anti-American/anti-Western rallies.
I totally agree with what hissweetheart said. additionally, Islam encourages us to be well-prepared for Friday prayer or even for daily prayers. Taking shower and wearing clean clothes are important practices esp. that day.
Actually, it is hard two compare Church to Masjed !! each one has its own roles.
Thanks Carol
I had a hunch when I wrote this post it would generate a lot of discussion to include some controversy but again…that is also a part of cross-cultural communications and leading to better understanding.
This is a funny post. So one “devout, proud and well-traveled Muslim” has had negative experiences at every mosque he’s ever been to every week since he’s been born? And a positive one at every church he’s been to?
Although it’s your blog and your entitled to post anything you wish, I can’t see how this post promotes “cross-cultural communication” at all.
What I read in it is that Muslims smell, have personal space issues and are generally hostile. (And since he’s “well traveled” it’s that way everywhere.)
I hate to say this because as I said, it’s your blog and you’re free to post whatever you fancy, but I feel that the tone of your blog has gone from curious, inquisitive, and providing interesting questions and answers to a blog where judgment and generalizations reign supreme.
Thanks for your comments GE &B. I think perhaps you have read too much into the post. Nowhere does it say that “had negative experiences at every mosque he’s ever been to every week since he’s been born?”
My view is that since few Saudis have likely attended services other than at a mosque, it is interesting to share the views of one who has. It is not meant in any way to change anyone from their chosen faith.
And I realize that my blog will not please everyone and appreciate the candidness of your comment.
The church experience shared here sounds a good bit like my Presbyterian upbringing. Ok, my parents weren’t all that organised, and a proper meal came after church (coffee hour in the church basement which involved drinks and pastries) rather than before. Fire and brimstone and threats of hell were never part of the discourse. Instead, sermons related current events to Biblical stories, and much of the focus was improvement of oneself as Christian. e.g. Moral lessons. Looking back, church was a big part of our social life. We did things with members of the congregation at the weekends pretty consistently. While I’m not overtly religious as an adult, my childhood experiences in the Presbyterian church were quite positive. I relate very strongly to the experience relayed in this post.
Thanks for sharing Abu Dhabi!
To be honest, I find the Saudi experince for the tale quite accurate to some of the mosque vistors. However those are always the late comers.. While the experince to people who are more attached to Friday prayer is more different. Those are usualy the folk who wake up early on each day and have a routine of having a breakfast with some arabic cofee afterwards.. After that they prepare to go to the mosque.. the scene might be the same but you will see a daughter, a sister or a wife helping with cleaning the house and preparing clothes.. lighting up incense.. preparing the Majlis for after prayer vistors. The men after getting ready either pool on a couple of cars (if the family was large) or walk to the mosque. They arrive early and start seating next to the front rows.. they stay after the prayer for a while untill it’s appropiate for them to leave.
I have to note something very important here about friday sermons. The sermons are highly driven poltically. If you continue to view the news they are pretty influnced by pan-arab Palastinian struggle.. or Pan-Muslim struggle in many differnt parts of the world. They are also heavly influnced by the sermon’s week social incidents.
Islam doesn’t have an authoritve hierarchy like current Christian system.. It is not as focused or regulated apart from it’s target and random expansion. The sermons might be moniterd by the government but it seems the traditionally used theme that was adapted to create the autmosphere with USSR jihad in Afghanistan have taken over as a formula for regular Friday sermons in Saudi mosques.. I think thy should revisit that format and reflect to create a more passive and relative outline for future sermons.
Church visits are not always so harmonious as your friend makes them out to be. Where’s the mom yelling at her kids that if they don’t get their butts out of bed, they’re going to be late to church? And while some churches do preach about goodness and God’s love, there are plenty of preachers that rant about hell and eternal damnation.
I’m glad to hear the differing views and experiences. I had hoped that would happen by sharing the experience which was related to me.
I had been to a few of the Islamic centers before leaving the States and found them to be comparable in format and style as to Christian churches. I also have been to a few mosques here in KSA but usually not on Friday’s for prayers. I’ve gone to the mosque on Eid-al-Fitr and found that I prefer to stay home and listen via tv or radio.
My experience was of course I was in the ladies section but so were all the children, many who were very rambunctious and running around while the prayer was in session. And of course the ladies area was segregated so you did not see the imam but hear him through a speaker.
Woehahahaaaa, this was really funny!
I think it shouldn’t be taken tooo serious!
I’m sure the narrator has had many different experiences, either in the mosque or a church, how cool that he broadened his experiences by visiting other people of the book!
Some ministers are also pretty good at damning everybody to hell!
Was upset by this post. This is only one man’s perspective and I hope that others (non-muslims) would not think that this is what Islam is like and what Muslim males attitude toward Fridays prayers are…be sleepy, rush-rush, body odors, get this over with …I am thinking that he made a very incorrect over-generalization. There are people who go to the Friday prayers with good intentions and not there only because there is a “I have to be here” attitude.
Also, going to Friday prayers is totally different depending on which country you are in. In the US, the masjids that I have seen and been to on Fridays, it was usually a family affair, the whole family is also dressed in their best, and the sons go with their fathers to the mens sections and the babies and daughters will go with their mothers to the female section. There is a nice khutbah (sermon), the prayer, and then if the men do not have to go back to work then there is a nice lunch with his family or other families get together.
You might be a convert to Islam, but one wonders about the heart; where it stands.
Not being a muslim I can’t comment at what a Mosque is like but I grew up going to protestant and catholic churches in the American midwest and let me tell you it was a pretty rare visit when I didn’t get to hear for 2 hours how I was an awful person and was going to hell just for being a human being.
So I think this person has a weird view of church.
If who-ever wrote this lighthearted and funny, droll comparison meant it as serious gospel to be written down in stone tablets: I’ll eat my mouse! (and send you a photo to prove it)
Lighten up people!
I have to agree about the tone changing. I started reading several months ago, and it was about as neutral as one could get. Just information without a judgment to it. I don’t think the same can be said now. You may just be the messenger, but the comparison was pretty ridiculous, and I have to wonder at the choice to post it. Was it meant to be funny, because it was almost childish or parody-like. Something you might see on a christian missionary site, comparing the ‘true’ religion to the mooslims. EVERY aspect of going to the masjid in Saudi was negative and every aspect of church positive? I wonder if such a perspective would have been posted with the opposite view?
I also wonder the same as Andrea re mosque screaming. I’ve heard it in Malaysia and the UAE. On fridays you get scared off at some voices in Arabic literally screaming out of these loudspeakers are 120 decibels. If its some kind of preaching, it must be the muslim version of the crazy christian preachers you sometimes see wailing away on tv or the radio and on movies?
Also, how does sitting listening to an imam mean anything to you if you don’t speak arabic?
Not everything I post will be agreeable or strike a chord with everyone. Some posts, like this one, will result in a strong reaction. But again, this is just providing one view which was shared and it certainly has resulted in many differing comments which is good.
It’s amusing how many people are attacking Carol for posting the point of view of a SAUDI MUSLIM MAN. As though 1) he’s not entitled to his experience or opinion, and 2) whether he is or not..it’s Carols fault. I guess that’s typical Saudi treatment of women, though, so why be surprised….
Interestingly I shared the comments with the Saudi man who allowed me to share and write about his observation. His response was that it is better for a Saudi to speak up and share on observations that may be controversial rather than have non-Saudis speak up. His view is too many Saudis will sit back quietly and internally fume on things they do not agree with or like about the society when instead they should be the ones speaking up in a candid and professional manner – not to be aggressive or invoke hostility but to present the differing views and perspectives.
‘Saudis will sit back quietly and internally fume on things they do not agree with or like about the society when instead they should be the ones speaking up in a candid and professional manner’
I don’t think that is just a Saudi thing. I think it is a Muslim thing and the reason groups like the Taliban or al-Qaida are allowed to flourish. Seriously, if they are able to get up in arms if someone insults the prophet (or says they enjoyed church more than a mosque) why aren’t they able to do so when people give them all a black eye with their interpretations of Islam. I don’t think that I am alone in my belief that if you don’t speak against something (including walking out of a fiery sermon) you must be for it.
‘Saudis will sit back quietly and internally fume on things they do not agree with or like about the society when instead they should be the ones speaking up in a candid and professional manner’
I don’t think that is just a Saudi thing. I think it is a Muslim thing and the reason groups like the Taliban or al-Qaida are allowed to flourish. Seriously, if they are able to get up in arms if someone insults the prophet (or says they enjoyed church more than a mosque) why aren’t they able to do so when people give them all a black eye with their interpretations of Islam. I don’t think that I am alone in my belief that if you don’t speak against something (including walking out of a fiery sermon) you must be for it.
Thanks for responding Lynn…twice! (smile)
The khutbahs I hear touches on various aspects of life and hardly I hear that if you do this/that you’ll suffer in Hell etc. In fact, I don’t remember hearing that but the message of repenting before its too late is always repeated on every khutbah. In short, its a more subtle way than to say if you don’t repent, you go to Hell.
Here, the imams always advice and advocate us to be a better Muslims. They also talk on the various issues Muslims face, how we can deal with it, how to improve the conditions Muslims face and anything that affects Muslims as a whole.
The message is more important, not the loudness of the preached message. Blaring out the khutbah at 120dB is not considerate at all.
I also noticed what was said on the 2nd paragraph is eerily true. I see that its too common where people park their cars wherever its near the entrance, people finding their shoes amidst the sea of shoes and instead of hearing people peddling miswak or oud, I hear people selling potato-filled curry puffs at 3 for $1.
I’ve not been to a church but the description you mentioned about churchgoers are true, based on what I’ve seen. Differences apply for different churches but this is what I generally see.
Thanks for sharing your views and experiences Firdhaus.
It is interesting how the mosques will have the imam’s message broadcast over a loudspeaker through the neighborhood…at least in the Muslim world. Whereas I’m not aware of this happening at churches of other faiths. For example, Pakistan has both churches and mosques. One will easily hear the Friday prayers of multiple mosques from anywhere in Pakistan but the church service sermon will be contained within.
All the mosques I’ve been to in the US and England the “khotba ” cannot be heard from outside the mosque. The person has to be inside the mosque to hear what the imam is saying. Even some mosques I’ve been to has no microphones. So I assume the external speaker things exist in some Muslim countries only. I prefer to listen to imam with high-pitch voice rather than a monotonous voice that will make me sleep.
It’s a language issue I believe. I’d not enjoy it at all and it’ll get into my nerve to hear someone speaking Chinese as an example in a high-voice, but I enjoy it when I hear it from an eloquent speaker of Arabic.
I wonder why some believe and want others to believe that you can only and should only find Allah, God, Dios in one place?
I have found peace sitting in a quite Synagogue before an interfaith meeting; in a Buddist temple hearing monks chanting; in the very Roman Catholic church my mom attends; in a small out of the way Masjid in north of Irbid, Jordan or the “Indonesian” masjid in Queens, NY… I have only entered one masjid in Yemen- the day of my wedding and never again; I have had really bad Fridays in a large Islamic Center in NY and yet none takes away the fact that each of us regardless of our faith, affiliation or denomination will have good and bad experiences the world over or the place of worship down the block…
Nasser…Your heart is where your Supreme Lord resides…in your soul…
Hi Carol,
It has been a long time since I had a chance to comment. Good article, presenting a point of view. As always the smallest hint of criticism brings out all sorts of attackers and doubters. The fact is that many of us experienced the same issues the person in the article shared (i.e. the person that has not met a shower in 2 weeks and shows up to pray, the rushed person that parks the car in the middle of the street, and the aggressive khotbahs). This does not mean every Muslim acts in this way and not every imam preaches aggression. Non the less the issues exist and we should take criticism and learn from it.
I suggest that individuals that criticize your objectivity to direct should direct their energy to something constructive like:
- Next time you stand for prayer next to a filthy person you should advise him about the benefits of hygiene. A recommendation on your favorite brand of soap may be helpful. If that does not work set up a hosing station
- If you hear an aggressive khotbah, by all means walk to the imam and tell him how disappointed you are in the content. If that does not work, take your prayer somewhere else. Let the supply and demand process work, so these aggressive imams do not have a stage to pursue their hate.
Peace…
My understanding at least regarding mosques and islamic centers in the States is that there are laws which prohibit the adaan such as one hears in most of the islamic states. The same applies to no external microphones or speakers either.
Saudi in US – so glad to see your comment!! Thanks and welcome back to the blog.
Carol there are places here in the US where you can hear the adhan in the neighborhood of the mosque. It’s local ordinanaces that would prohibit or allow it. If the majority wants it then it is allowed. The mosque in Hamtramck Michigan has it although I’m willing to bet the there are limitiations on how loud it can be during certain hours.
Thanks for sharing Lynn. I know where I had lived in the Northern Virginia area one would not hear the adhan in spite of having several mosques or islamic centers in proximity.
As a non arabic speaking muslim I was so disappointed when I came to Saudi.
I was expecting islam par-excellence. I found screaming imams (the louder the better), people praying in the shopping mall (not the masjid), Ramadan away from the spirit (shop till drop after iftar) and a lot more.
Islamic centers aboard are def. more organized, cleaner and nicer and less intimidating.
Turkishmom,
I’m sad to say that I have also been disappointed in the practice of Islam and muslims since coming to Saudi Arabia. It has impacted on my own views of the faith to tell you frankly.
I believe that faith should be triggered and maintained within ourselves and it shouldn’t be affected from the wrong practices around us. IMHO, this is the best way to keep your spirit high in such upside-down world!
good comment Khalid.
Hi – interesting blog, just dropped in via SaudiJeans.
And would like to comment on this issue.
Isn’t it so, that in every religion, there are great internal differences.
I’ve been to catholic mass in latin america , in France and in England and if you didn’t know you wouldn’t think it was the same religion.
In Denmark, where I’m from, most people are protestant but(mostly secular) there are big differences between middle of the road protestantism and the fire and brimstone preaching you can meet in the countryside.
From what I know of Islam in Denmark it’s the same situation. There are big differences between f.ex the turkish and some more traditional arabs mosques.
But it seems like, that muslims doesn’t have the same tradition in openly discussing different interpretations of the religion ?
Niels,
Welcome! I enjoy your comment and your last sentence really hits a chord for it does seem that muslims more so perhaps than those who practice other faiths do seem to dislike opening discussing interpretations…or rather than exchange views on observations and thoughts the discussions will be filled with quotes from the Quran.
[...] not a joke, a Saudi had shared earlier with me his impressions of comparing a mosque and church. His views were his own and quite candid. There is truth in [...]
I remember once upon a time discussing Qur’an with a Muslim friend, considering tough questions, and he told me it was something very different from what he was used to – the Qur’anic education of his youth having been limited to memorization and nothing more.
I would venture that the majority of Saudi’s whom I know have the Quran memorized which I attribute to learning and studying from such a young age.
I once visited a church with a friend where they spoke in tongues. That’s right…something to do with their holy spirit possessing them.
I saw an elderly lady jump up from her pew, speak non sense and then fall down to the floor wriggling. My initial reaction was to laugh. My friend was mortified that I did that. I meant no disrespect, I honestly felt it was amusing not something to be respected.
I felt it difficult to take that particular church seriously.
My first visit to a masjid was completely different. Don’t get me wrong, there was a plethora of languages spoken there too but all quite decipherable mind you! No, what struck me about this particular masjid was the attendees quite demeanor in their prayer. With the bowing and prostrating, it was all very dignified and subtly demanded respect.
I think I would also have a hard time to witness someone speaking in tongues.
I have noted that in the masjid it is quiet, similar to my remembrances of Catholic mass. Many Christian churches though may be more expressive where during a prayer attendees may raise their hands or perhaps say something like “Amen” in agreement.
the statement is clearly in favor of the Christians. it’s unfair on our part as Muslims.
this is not accurate
while Muslims go to mosques 5 times a day, Christians go only once a week. so this comparison is all false and unfair.