I’ve no doubt that this American election is probably getting the widest coverage and attention in world history. This is in part due to the influx of new internet technologies which make it easy to reach a broader global audience but also because whichever way this campaign goes it is making world history. The United States will either have its first Black President (fingers crossed) or the first woman as Vice President.
In the meantime there is less than a month until Election Day and Americans the world over will be casting their vote. So not surprisingly, the campaigns are turning up the heat and starting to get really ugly.
In my personal view, the Obama campaign has been a gentlemanly campaign. He has responded to allegations and attacks by the McCain campaign as well as comparing the McCain campaign to another round of the Bush era…kind of like calling a spade a spade…
The McCain campaign has been going overboard. Instead of giving the American people and rest of the world substance on their views, perspectives, plans and strategies I’m hearing more of why I should not vote for Obama.
Trying to portray Obama as a domestic terrorist due to affiliations with Ayers who was part of the Weatherman when Obama was only eight years old is really stretching it in my view. In fact, watching Orbit news the other night, I think McCain’s tactics to allude that Obama is in bed with terrorists and a closet muslim backfired while campaigning in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. Since his supporters were on national TV chanting Obama was a terrorist, an Arab and a muslim, McCain had to publicly come round and correct those misimpressions…even though that has been the not-so-subtle message he has been trying to portray all along of Obama.
However the ugliest of allegations I have read was today when reading another blog which is not only politically oriented but clearly so anti-Obama. This blogger is insinuating that Obama was in fact born in Kenya and therefore ineligible to run for the position as President of the United States. I’ve included the link for those of you who wish to read this lurid albeit fascinating post.
http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/10/11/obama-born-in-kenya-new-information/
At the same time, I not surprised and saddened how Palin continues to show her true colors and continued denial ability or accountability even though she was found to misuse her influence and position as Governor of Alaska. During interviews and campaigning she continues to blow off the fact that Alaskan officials found her guilty of such charges. What does this say of Sarah Palin and what does this say of the judgement of John McCain in choosing her as a running mate? Last but certainly not least, I think it is very telling that NOW (National Organization of Women) officially endorsed Obama as their candidate of choice. Within their endorsement they also made it clear that NOW was against Sarah Palin and that is a bad example for women and women rights.
I agree with NOW… and as we all know, a picture can say a 1000 words and I think this picture speaks volumes on the ethics and values of Sarah Palin and that perhaps she is spending too much time climbing the golden staircase instead of taking care of her family.
I leave this post asking my valued readers how is this election campaign and its tactics presenting America? What do Saudis think of the directions of the campaign and what views do you have on the future direction of the USA-KSA relationship?
Filed under: America, Saudi Arabia, Women Issues, culture, politics, relationships
As a political grass-roots activitist in the United States during my college days in the mid 90s, please allow me to offer my two cents. In the 90s, most Arab-Americans identified with the Republicans more than the Democrats. Mainly, it was due to their conservative stance and family values. Moreover, President Bush senior was the reigning President at the time of the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, thus the support for them was huge. Finally, due to the huge number of Jews that identified with the Democrats (around 85% vote Democrat) led the Muslim Arabs to take the opposite stance.
All that goodwill and loyalty have shifted now. Some of it is attributed to a simplistic identification with Barrack Hussein Obama as a son of Kenyan Muslim man. However, the bulk of it is due to the horrendous reign of Bush Jr. who destroyed any good will towards Muslims and people from the Arab world. He showed the true colors of the ill-fated US government foreign policy, especially in its stance towards issues dear to Arabs and Muslims. Although Barrack is not the Arab’s savior, it is a case of choosing someone who cannot be any worse than McCain’s promise of “more of the same.”
Thanks Siwash for your comment.
To me, the picture is adorable… but thats just me.
Well, for the American elections, to me, it’s the same boat either if a democrat or a republican was chosen as president.. However I am worried some more if the republicans win cause well, Sarah Palin is just a heartbeat away from becoming the actual president.. It’s really frightening because it takes more than watching out for Russia diplomacy wise.
It’s unfortunate that the U.S election, as important as it is.. has became more as a circus.. with the two party sides it has became just disappointing to call it a democracy.. voters start voting for the person who would most likely win instead of the ones they agree with their policies.
For Saudis, Arabs.. and most of the world.. what we all need is a president that attacks problems and solves them, not trying to patch up the short term symptoms. There are problems that effects the world if they hit the U.S, not peace in the Middle East, that peace cannot be forced into the Middle East, it needs to come from within. I am talking about the current economy crisis and environmental issues.
DW – I will also admit to finding the picture humorous but also could not resist using it with this post.
You raise good points and it is really sad how the picture of America is getting tarnished with the theatrics of the election campaigns.
I love the little girl in the picture! A girl who would be well placed at stTrinnians girls-school!
Campaign-wise and media-wise the elections look ridiculously superficial and petty from my eyes.
Check out this excellent speech by Obama:
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ctgw9VyV_0
I really have nothing to add that you haven’t already stated (and which I agree with entirely) except that I find Sarah’s jacket to be absolutely hideous
Ah, yes, Tulip! How could I have forgotten! Yes! The most utterly revolting piece of ladies apparel I have seen in a long time.
Makes you change your opinion on the enforced wearing of abayas!
Love the comments….
I’m wondering if the jacket is a maternity jacket and maybe this photo was taken before her youngest son was born? It certainly does make a fashion statement…
Whew! I was worried there for a minute. I know I have no knowledge what so ever about fashion…wouldnt know it if it knocked me upside the head…but I know an ugly jacket when I see it…she looks like bad kitchen wallpaper…or worse…bad bathroom wallpaper…ugh! Glad others agreed….I feel better now.
Obama was supported by Ted Kennedy, who is Catholic, and the Catholic Church is led by a Pope who was in the Hitler Youth, [so] that can mean only one thing: OBAMA LOVES HITLER!
Care of John Stewart.
coolred — LOL!
Ryan – surely you jest….
“Care of John Stewart”
salute from the colbert nation
I have been studying for the last 6 years in Oregon, where Obama had the most gathering this year, and i am influenced by there views.
As a Muslim Arab, i figured Obama is also the lesser evil. since I think he would still have a problem changing the Neo-conservative agenda in the government.
I actually wanted to vote for Ron Paul. I have respect for that man. But, I am unable to vote, even though I am a US citizen for personal security reasons.
Sometimes I think that republicans encouraged Obama getting the democratic nomination, because Hillary was much more of a challenge. she wasn’t as radical as Obama was, and I think she would have a better chance against Mcain.
I just hope elections arn’t rigged this year. My Oregonian friend last election got his vote dropped because he registered as both democrat and republican. the real problem was that someone forged his signature and registered his as a republican. REAL SHADY ( I saw it with my own eyes)
Obama might have a chance, but he wont last for more than 4 years. The economy is only going down, and democrats will be blamed for it. they were not able to fix it, they will say. Obama didn’t do what he promised, they will yell.
I just hope Obama wins, just for the sake of Martin Luther King Jr. He would be proud.
Palin’s choice of attire in the photo is all the more reason to question if we would really want this person to possibly step into the role of President of the US!
The only way McCain can win at this point is if the Republicans cheat again, as they did in 2000 and 2004. And if that happens, there’d better be an uprising this time.
I’ve got a hunch that no matter who wins this year the other side will likely call foul…
Am I the only one who finds Palin’s speech pattern to be contrived and annoying? I had to wince when she declared that Obama was friends with a domestic terrorist in that sing song voice of hers.
god bless your heart youuu betchaa
Saudi Jawa – I’ve been writing about that issue in my earlier posts about the election. It is soooo grating… She sounds like a little parrot who has memorized her lines and now expecting to receive a treat.
OK so I love the picture but unfortunately… and the ONLY reason I am saying this is because I don’t want to go down the McCain smear path… it’s photoshopped. I found the original http://www.gov.state.ak.us/large_photo.php?id=175.
BUMMER! I would have LOVED for this to be real but I’m just so sick sick sick and tired of all the smear and the lies…
Anyway, I just wish the vote were today and we’d be done with all the bs.
interesting….I’ll have to give my “source” a hard time then! (smile)
I agree with you Monica, I’m ready for it all to be over!
Monica; You mean that the most horrible disgustingly shocking, detail of this picture: the utterly revolting jacket, is actually photo-shopped?
How utterly evil! How can anybody dó that!?!?!!!!
I can’t imagine how horrible I would feel if somebody would photoshop that jacket onto me!!!!!!!
I dont get it…both photos look the same to me…but then again…I keep gagging so maybe Im looking at it wrong…eh?
same jacket….
Perhaps it looks like that because somebody has allready gagged all over it?
After to many six-packs???
Granny Bedu, she ís a parrot: who only delivers programmed sentences, interlarded with newspeak, ya’all get it?
Thanks ya’ll for giving me a good laugh — Aafke – you and your comments on priceless!
errr…are priceless….
Sarah Palin… I wonder what to speak of her now? She can wear the Zoolander-type of outfit when she’s the VP, not when she’s a candidate! The spots are telling me that her background and personal ethics etc are as spotty as her outfit.
A few days ago, I read an article about McCain defending Obama and he got booed for doing so. Some (obviously) ignorant lady called him an Arab, which is obviously not true. I’m very sad to see that some Americans can be swayed by false stories made to promote self or certain group’s interests.
And the person who wrote the anti-Obama article got the facts wrong. But the Presidential race is already starting to sound racist to me. It sounds very farcical.
coolred38:
In the photoshopped picture Palin’s little girl (right in front of her) has been doctored into giving everyone “the finger”.
Hilarious bit of photochopping if I may say so myself
Yeah, unfortunately that jacket appears to be real. I’m not one for fashion but it is pretty revolting. Fits her though… revolting.
Aha…ok. no wonder…Ive never paid much attention to the creative sign language enjoyed and practiced by todays youth…lol. thanks for pointing out the obvious…err..I think.
btw…u know Im going back for a better look now…lol.
btw2…how come Palin didnt pitch a fit over this…politics is harsh and brutal…but little kids should be left out of it….shouldnt she be playing the “leave my kids out of it” card now…every point counts.
I keep getting chain mails from my conservative friends claiming Obama is the anti-Christ. I’ve received very few things smearing McCain. My husband, a Southerner, says that no matter what the polls say, the South won’t vote for Obama, for all the tired old reasons. It is just all so crass. Is this the best we can produce?
I’m just preparing for whomever gets elected, the other side will protest of irregularities. It has become such a “smear the other candidate” campaign. Let’s see what happens during tonight’s final debate.
Yes; I saw the news clip where McCain supporters were chanting anti-Obama slogans such as he’s an arab, he’s a terrorist, he’s a muslim and on and on. That perturbs me as it makes me wonder what are the REAL views of American citizens towards arabs and muslims? The best part though was McCain had to come to Obama’s defense as he would have looked pretty stupid to allow his supporters to continue such chants!
The anti-Christ? Now that’s a good one!
ROFS-rolling on the floor SNORTING!!! I’ve laughed at alot of comments on Carols blog but I think this one takes the cake ( or the coat ) All of you are too funny!!! On a serious note, my vote is definately for Obama. IF McCain would happen to get elected I could probably deal with it but if something happened to him and Palin had to step in I think we’d all be up the creek without any paddles or a boat!!!
Yeah….if I put my mind to it…or nudge Aafke…. I bet we could come up with something about the coat…
It is astonishing the absolute bias both in this post and in the comments to it on this site. First of all, neither John McCain nor Sarah Palin nor ANYONE in their campaigns have suggested that Barack Obama is a terrorist, or a Muslim. These are absolute lies that are being propagated by biased people in the press and challenge any of your commenters here who claim to have seen those videos to produce the links. If you can’t, you are lying. It is true that both Palin and McCain have brought up Obama’s relationship with Bill Ayers, but not because they are implying that Obama is a terrorist. Bill Ayers and his wife led a group that set many, many bombs in the U.S. and succeeded in killing policemen, paralyzing a man for life, and nearly killing a judge and his family, including a 9 year old boy — they escaped from their burning house unharmed, thank goodness. Bill Ayers and his wife got off on a technicality and never served any jail time for their crimes. Bill Ayers famously said “Guilty as sin and free as a bird”. As recently as (ironically) September 11th 2001, Bill Ayers said that he did not regret what he did, but wished that they had done more. He said that in an interview with the NY Times. He was photographed in August of 2001 in Chicago magazine standing on a U.S. flag and again saying “no regrets.” Now what is Obama’s relationship with Ayers…it is not merely that this is some guy in his neighborhood as Obama stated when first asked about him. In fact, not only has Obama served on two boards with Ayers – the Woods foundation and the Chicago Annenberg Foundation for many years, but Obama also had one of his initial fundraisers /introduction to the Chicago political scene IN AYER’s home! Ayers is still a far-left radical who rails against capitalism in his speeches (like one he just gave in Venezuela) he and directs funds to far-left causes. Now, any American is certainly allowed to say that all of this just doesn’t matter to them. But others of us are allowed to say that it doesn’t say much for Obama’s attitude towards America that his political career was launched in Ayer’s home, that he spent 20 years sitting in a church where the preacher preached anti-Americanism, that the U.S. gov’t invented AIDS to kill Black people, etc. etc. These are absolutely legitimate questions and they don’t make the people asking them racist or nasty. This man is going to represent America around the world — we are allowed to assess how he would do that by looking at who has allied himself with in the past, and how THEY view America. They are facts that need to be investigated and weighed by the voter. And for all the people who are so up in arms about the alleged nastiness of the attacks against Obama, I don’t hear or see you condemning the far more nasty attacks against Sarah Palin. Again, if you don’t think she is experienced enough, fair enough. But that is no reason to call her “white trash”, “stupid”, a “c—” and “abort Palin” and a whole slew of other absolutely filthy comments that have been directed at her both by the press and by Obama supporters in various cities she has traveled to. Here is a link with a nice summary of the nastiness directed her way, McCain’s way, and of course, George Bush’s way for the past 8 years.
http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/12/crush-the-obamedia-narrative-look-whos-gripped-by-insane-rage/
Scroll down to see all the stuff your media sources aren’t choosing to tell you.
Again, anyone here can vote for whoever they choose, but please, step back and have a little bit of intellectual honesty and admit that Obama is not running some sort of squeaky clean campaign — I haven’t even got into how many times the race card has been dropped at ANY legitimate criticism of Obama or how he tried to use lawyers to stop TV stations from airing ads he didn’t like or how he has a group of young people who are used to swamp radio stations with calls when someone who is critical of Obama is on or how the the Obama friendly press and Obama-supporting bloggers are trying to destroy a man because, when approached by Obama at his own house he had the temerity to ask him a tough question which Obama answered in a way that is giving him bad press. The Leftwing blogs are giving out his home address, people are trying to take away his livelihood, etc. Are there bigots on the right, sure. But there are just as many nasty folks on the left and a ton of sexism.
Thanks DebK for providing your point of view. Yes; as you gathered that when it comes to the Presidential campaign, in that regard this blog is biased and pro-Obama. However it is good to receive differing points of view as well.
Regards,
Carol
So we take it Obamas a politician too…gee…go figure.
American Bedu — I thank you for your respectful reply. All I ask from both sides is intellectual honesty about their respective candidate. And unfortunately what I see from both sides is attempts to take mole hills and make mountains and to smear the other with lies. In what is already a very charged campaign in a very politically divided country, throwing gas on the fire with false charges is not only unethical, it is potentially dangerous.
And Coolred38 — my point exactly. Obama is an ambitious politician just like McCain and Palin are ambitious politicians. He is not “the one”, he is not a demi-god, etc. And, to be honest, I think that, if he is elected, the people who are going to be most disappointed are going to be his most devoted followers because sooner rather than later they will discover that simple truth.
DebK – you’re welcome.
I do agree with you that at this stage in the campaigns, it is getting ugly on all sides. What impression and perception does this now give of America?
I’m sure many will find it interesting. I was at a function over the (Saudi) weekend which included various officials, diplomats and well-traveled professional expats. American guests were in the minority but still the upcoming election was a hot topic of conversation. An informal poll was taken among the guests (which included some foreign ambassadors) and it was anonymous for Obama. What does that say?
Since Obama has stated that this ex-terrorist fellow has never advised him and will never advise him on politics, that puts an end to that.
Since I’m not an American, I can’t vote but when the most powerful man in the world is about to be voted in, I’d like to think the Americans are voting for someone that isn’t just “brave” or a woman that isn’t just “easy to relate to”, but people who also have some bloody brains!!!!!!!!!!!!
God forbid the most powerful people in the world should actually be people who can think. If you dont believe John McCain is incapable…. Palin? I mean, come on Joe Sixpack!
Ryan – I am happy to receive your views and particularly to hear the views of those who are also non-Americans but closely following the election campaigns.
Ryan, again, it may end it for you, but not for everyone. The issue people like me have with Obama’s associations (and it is not just Ayers, it also the Rev. Wright who was his self-admitted mentor and was clearly racist and anti-American and in whose church Obama sat for 20 years, and Rezco, his big fund-raiser in Chicago who also helped him buy a house and who is now in jail for bribing public officials and fraud) is that we can make assessments about people’s character and their political ideology from the people with whom they ally. You make think it is no big deal to have spent a decade working with a guy (Ayers) who has an extreme leftist, anti-capitalist, anti-American philosophy just because, for political expediency Obama now says he won’t advise him, but there are a lot of us here who disagree with you. I don’t know what country you are from, or if you can elect your officials. But if you can, would you like to have a person elected who had spent most of his life with a group of people who have ranted against your country, made racists statements against many people not like them, and made business deals with criminals? I think I’ve got fair and good reasons to not vote for Obama. As to the issue of intelligence, Ryan, have you been a mayor of town? Have you been elected a governor? Have you led anything? It is astonishing to me how many people out there who have done nothing but sit on the sidelines can make such snide comments about the intelligence of someone they don’t know. Just because Palin didn’t have a perfect interview with a hostile interviewer like Couric or Gibson does not mean that she is not intelligent. Clearly she has a great deal to learn on foreign policy. But I’ll bet if Joe Biden was asked about oil resources and natural gas he’d look like a fool. (By the way he does stupid things on the stump on a daily basis and they are completely overlooked.) One thing is clear and that is that Palin has done an excellent job as governor of her state — the people there certainly think so. She is a proven leader in executive positions. And she is also not the top of the ticket. John McCain is, and he is light-years ahead of Obama in his knowledge of and experience in foreign policy. So if we are going based simply on that criterion, you should be voting for McCain. Again, you might think McCain’s foreign policy ideas go against your own, and that is a good reason not to vote from him, but these ad hominem attacks on people’s intelligence are not mature ways of assessing candidates.
American Bedu — I don’t mind things getting rough as long as they are honest. My problem is with the lies and rumors going around and the fact that much of the American press is happy to propagate lies about McCain and his supporters while they ignore what is going on with Obama and his supporters.
For example, how many of the commenters on this blog are aware that Obama said at a recent rally, “I need you to go out and talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors. I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they are Republican. I want you to argue with them and get in their face”? Obama himself directly called for his supporters to “argue with” and “get in the their face” people who don’t agree with them. (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/09/17/politics/p185733D40.DTL&type=politics) Yet this comment is barely heard about while the fact that one person at one rally for Palin yelled a nasty comment is some how reflective of McCain and Palin being supportive of thugs. It’s ridiculous, but that kind of reporting bias is going on every single day here. And if you are overseas, you are likely only seeing the one side, and not the other.
As to what others think of America — well, this is how we change power. We don’t fight, we don’t pass power from father to son, we get in political, verbal mudfights every 2, 4 years. I’ll take it over most of the ways that power is passed on in the countries people are judging from.
Finally as to the diplomats’ opinions, it is absolutely no surprise to me that most American diplomats support Obama. The State Department of the United States is overwhelmingly staffed by people of a left-leaning persuasion (as is a good deal of most of the bureaucracy of the U.S. government), so I would even expect a room of U.S. diplomats to lean to Obama. And it is obvious that Obama is saying all the things that foreigners seem to want to hear from America — they seem to want America to be humbled, to apologize for itself etc. This is exactly the talk Obama talks and I am sure it is music in the ears of nearly everyone overseas. But here is the problem. The fact is that when push comes to shove, over and over again, the world needs the U.S., looks to the U.S., etc. And we respond over and over again. We do it monetarily, we do it in humanitarian missions, we do it with private citizens who donate millions of dollars to charities that operate helping the poor around the world, and yes, we do it with our military that not only fights, but does so many other positive things around the world that are too numerous to state here. In short, the world looks to the U.S when they are in trouble, and no matter how we have been treated and reviled by the people in those same countries, we still come to their aid because it is the right thing to do. In Saudi Arabia we need only look back at the first Gulf War to see what I am talking about. And do you know who voted against the first Gulf War? Joe Biden did. And based on his rhetoric, it seems highly unlikely that Obama would have supported that war any more than he supports the current Iraq war. There is no way to tell of course, but that’s my guess. My point is this — I understand that people around the world get frustrated with the U.S., I understand all the arguments against the recent Iraq war. Even though I support George Bush, I think he made mistakes both in his rhetoric and in tactical military decisions in the war. But in the bigger picture, I believe that America is a force for good in the world, that we try to help where we can. We’re not perfect, but we are not the evil entity we are often portrayed to be. And I want a president who will make THAT case, not be running around the world apologizing for the U.S. and thinking that he can sit down with a person like Ahmadinejad and actually convince him of anything. The level of hubris involved in thinking that he, Obama, is going to be so much more convincing than any one of the parade of diplomats from the U.N, the E.U. and yes, the U.S. is really worrisome.
Again, I thank you for the opportunity to air my thoughts here. I don’t think that I will convince anyone, but I hope that people will understand that there are good and decent and mature reasons for supporting McCain in this election, just as there are for Obama.
DebK – I’ll respect your opinion but continue to agree to disagree on candidates.
In regards to views and contrasts, while not written by me, I think it sums up nicely:
Obama/Biden vs McCain/Palin
What if the roles were reversed? Think about it.
Would the country’s collective point of view be different?
Could racism be the culprit?
Ponder the following:
What if the Obamas had paraded five children across the stage,
including a three month old infant and an unwed, pregnant teenage
daughter?
What if John McCain was a former president of the Harvard Law Review?
What if Barack Obama finished fifth from the bottom of his graduating
class?
What if McCain had only married once, and Obama was a divorcee?
What if Obama was the candidate who left his first wife after a severe
disfiguring car accident, when she no longer measured up to his
standards?
What if Obama had met his second wife in a bar and had a long affair
while he was still married?
What if Michelle Obama was the wife who not only became addicted to pain
killers but also acquired them illegally through her charitable
organization?
What if Cindy McCain graduated from Harvard?
What if Obama had been a member of the Keating Five?(The Keating Five
were five United States Senators accused of corruption in 1989, igniting
a major political scandal as part of the larger Savings and Loan crisis
of the late 1980s and early 1990s.)
What if McCain was a charismatic, eloquent speaker?
What if Obama couldn’t read from a teleprompter?
What if Obama was the one who had military experience that included
discipline problems and a record of crashing seven planes?
What if Obama was the one who was known to display publicly, on many
occasions, a serious anger management problem?
What if Michelle Obama’s family had made their money from beer
distribution?
What if the Obamas had adopted a white child?
You could easily add to this list. If these questions reflected reality,
do you really believe the election numbers would be as close as they
are?
This is what racism does. It covers up, rationalizes and minimizes
positive qualities in one candidate and emphasizes negative qualities in
another when there is a color difference.
Educational Background:
Barack Obama: Columbia University – B.A. Political Science with a
Specialization in International Relations.
Harvard – Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna Cum Laude
Joseph Biden: University of Delaware – B.A. in History and B.A. in
Political Science.
Syracuse University College of Law – Juris Doctor (J.D.)
vs.
John McCain: United States Naval Academy – Class rank: 894 of 899
Sarah Palin: Hawaii Pacific University – 1 semester
North Idaho College – 2 semesters – general study
University of Idaho – 2 semesters -journalism
Matanuska-Susitna College – 1 semester
University of Idaho – 3 semesters – B.A. in Journalism
Education isn’t everything, but this is about the two highest offices in
the land as well as our standing in the world.
You make the call.
DebK you’re entitled to your opinions. I’d like to disagree on these ones though:
“ad hominem attacks on people’s intelligence are not mature ways of assessing candidates.”
You are voting in the 2 most powerful people in the WORLD. God forbid they might appear “elitist”. I think any arguments, even “ad hominem attacks” on their intelligence might, MIGHT have just a tiny bit of relevance. If you don’t believe intelligence is an issue, I feel sorry for your country that you are allowed to vote.
“we do it with our military that not only fights, but does so many other positive things around the world that are too numerous to state here”
I can list people from differeing parts of the world that I’ve spoken with face to face who hate your country for what it’s military has done, from South Americans to South East Asians to Australians. You say people rely on America in a way that seems to give you an excuse to defend its military actions around the world, no matter how destructive.
“And I want a president who will make THAT case, not be running around the world apologizing for the U.S.”
No, why would you want a president apologizing for screwing up? You might lose grip on that all encompassing power you were mentioning before.
“and thinking that he can sit down with a person like Ahmadinejad and actually convince him of anything.”
No, why would you want to be diplomatic and talk to anyone? Just shoot them in face, make everyone hate you even more and bring on the next, even more crazier fundamentalist in his place.
That was well stated Ryan.
From my perspective, I’m not quite sure what exactly is wrong with the US government (or any government for that matter) apologizing for some of its actions (actually make that many of its actions). Yes the US government has done many good things, but it most certainly has certainly caused quite a bit of destruction, death, and suffering to millions of people around the world, especially in recent years. Plus when you factor in the hypocrisy that has been on full display for the past 8 years (ie: we want democracy, but only if we like who you elected. You can’t torture people but we can. You can’t round people up and detain without charges for years but we can. You can’t prop up dictators but we can) I think some major apologies, not to mention changes, are in order quite frankly.
And with regards to couric and gibson being “hostile interviewers”, they were about as hostile as a newborn kitten.
Ryan-
My point about intelligence was very simple. You have no idea what Sarah Palin’s intelligence is, NONE. You are basing your assessments on her intelligence on how she did in a couple of media interviews or what you’ve read in media commentaries. A person doesn’t get to be the governor of the largest state in the United States by being stupid. You say you are concerned about intelligence in the VP nominee. Are you concerned that Joe Biden has been saying a stupid thing a day on the campaign trail for months now? He told a man in a wheelchair to “Stand up”, he said a “three letter word, JOBS”, he said that Hillary Clinton would have been a better choice for VP than himself, he now has his latest on the alleged crisis that will surely strike America in the first six months after Obama is elected and on and on. Joe Biden thought the smartest thing to do in Iraq was to divide it up into three ethnically homogenous regions – that was his plan, from a guy who alleged has 30 years of foreign policy experience. So excuse me if I find it disingenuous that you attack Palin for her intelligence because she is “a heartbeat away” but seem perfectly comfortable to have Joe Biden a heartbeat away as well.
As to people who hate our military. No doubt there are many, and no doubt some of them have justification. But there are also many, who it is no surprise that someone of your ideological bent would NOT have talked to, who feel just the opposite. Talk to people who were caught behind the Iron Curtain during the Soviet years who are very grateful to America and its military for eventually helping to break apart that state and give them their freedom. Talk to people from Albania or Kosovo or Bosnian Muslims who know that it was the American military that helped protect them from the Serbs or many Kuwaitis or Kurds who know the American military helped from them from Saddam Hussein and on and on. I did not say in my post that the American military is blameless. I have served in the military and my husband continues to serve, so I know first hand what goes on in the U.S. military. But what you and others like you who only want to do is to point out the negatives, and ignore the positives. The American military was the first on the scene to provide real help after the awful tsunami a few years back, the American military has helped innumerable times with rescue and relief efforts in response to devastating hurricanes in South and Central America, the American military has trained the African peacekeepers that are used throughout Africa to try to quell the endless violence there. Do we get any credit from the critics for the time, energy and enormous amount of money and manpower that is expended in these kinds of operations?NO. It’s just much to easy and fun to have the U.S. military be the big, bad boogie man. When Americans in the military do very bad things, like Abu Ghraib for example, they get prosecuted, put on trial, and punished. Does the military in your country do that? And did you know that the Abu Ghraib situation was already being investigated, by the military internally, long before it “broke in the press? Do you know why? Because a good soldier stood up and said, this is wrong, and reported it up his chain of command. All I ask is for a simple thing — intellectual honesty. Look beyond your circle that parrots the same old criticisms and see what other truths might be out there.
As to excusing military action anywhere, no matter how destructive.. I certainly did not say that anywhere in my comment. I simply said that I have heard and understand the arguments for and against the war, ad infinitum. I have thought about them at great length, and I have still come down supporting the war. My reasoning is far too long and complicated to include here, but I believe I am allowed to have my own opinion. It does not mean I justify random U.S. military action around the world.
As to the “apologizing” issue. You twist my point here. I did not say that the U.S. should not apologize for its mistakes. I, for example, think it was entirely right and appropriate and necessary when Pres. Bush apologized for Abu Ghraib. (People like to forget that apology, as well) It was a national disgrace and the Iraqis were owed an apology. However, it is one thing to apologize for specific mistakes, it is another to apologize for our COUNTRY as a WHOLE. Much of the world claims to want to see us humbled — to see a weak America — you express this sentiment yourself in your comment when you make the remark “lose your grip on that all encompassing power”. Well, everyone around the world is happy to say this, until they come between a rock and a hard place and need someone to move the rock. Whether it is a humanitarian crisis or an implacable political crisis or a military crisis, the U.S. inevitably gets turned to and expected to respond. Look at Bosnia. By all rights that situation should have been taken care of by Europe. But Europe was completely impotent, both because they have largely emaciated their militaries and because their populaces don’t have the stomach for any casualties of war. So who gets called in when the UN can’t stop massacres? The U.S. there are so many other examples of this I won’t list here. Even the precious UN has 22% of its budget funded by the U.S. taxpayer. Who is stopping the slaughter in Darfur? Is the U.N.? Are the Arab nations? Are African nations? Who will do it? No one, unless the U.S. steps in. This isn’t saying the U.S. is perfect, but it is saying that the U.S. is more of a force for good in the world than not. You are certainly free to disagree, but a lot of Americans who are more aware of all of the things Americans do for people all around the world simply don’t agree with you and we’d like a president who has that mindset.
Finally, the Ahmadinejad comment. Once again, you miss my point (or ignore it intentionally). I pointed out in my comment on Obama talking to Ahmadinejad that many, many diplomats have already been talking with and pressuring and cajoling him and the Iranians for years now. I mentioned the EU group that is working on the Iran issue, UN leaders that have tried, the head of the IAEA, and yes, American diplomats that have tried to talk to the current regime to convince them not to pursue nuclear weapons. My point was that it takes a great deal of hubris on Obama’s part to suggest that if HE talks to Ahmadinejad, without preconditions, it will accomplish much of anything that these people have not been able to accomplish (unless, of course, he capitulates to Iranian demands). I’m all for talking and negotiating with people, countries, entities with whom there is the potential for progress or compromise. But the record on Iran over the past decade is not very good in that respect.
Tulip — w/r/t the apology issue, see my comments above. As to your other points. The “we want democracy, but only if we like who you elected” needs some explanation. I can guarantee you that “we” didn’t want Hamas elected in the Palestinian territories, but we still supported democracy there. And the U.S. gov’t won’t be electing the next generation of leaders in either Iraq or Afghanistan. Of course you neglect to point out that the people in Iraq and Afghanistan wouldn’t be electing anyone, if it weren’t for U.S. intervention.
Your torture issue is a fair one, and a hotly debated one here in the U.S. I’m probably more on your side on this one than not, but I think you again have to be careful here to not trust all the stories of alleged torture that have been bandied about about the U.S. There is no doubt that the U.S. did waterboard, I believe, 2 or 3 very high-level Al Qaeda prisoners after unsuccessful interrogations but the U.S. has absolutely not been conducting any sort of wide-scale torture as is often alleged and insinuated in much of the press. You would likely call water-boarding torture, but there are a significant number of people who don’t agree. The reason why is that, many, many of our military people go through water-boarding for their military training and since it does not cause any permanent damage but just is very frightening, many people will not call it torture. Still, I think it is very important that the U.S. is as consistent as possible on this issue so I think that is a fair criticism.
On the issue of “rounding people up”…I find this quite disingenuous. With the exception of one man, Jose Padilla, there has been no mass rounding up of people without charges, and his case went through our entire court system and to the Supreme Court. After 9/11 there were groups of people who had illegal overstayed visas and committed a large number of other immigration violations who were sought out and deported, but, while this may seem awfully harsh, it is absolutely within the laws of the U.S., and ALWAYS has been that we can remove people in the country illegally. there were a couple of cases where innocent people, not guilty of immigration violations were caught up in this. And they also have won court cases and damages, etc. The point being that the “government”, in the end, through the courts and rights of appeals of citizens did the right thing. If you are talking about people “rounded up” when fighting in Afghanistan who are now in Guantanamo, that is an entirely different question, that, again, is hotly debated here. But the justification is simple, the people were caught fighting against our forces or abetting the fighting. If this was a conventional war, they would be prisoners of war and held, without charges, until the war ended. Because they are not acting as agents of a state they are unlawful combatants. The difficulty in this war is that there is unlikely to be a clear end, so what is to be done with prisoners captured? And, much as critics of Guantanamo like to imply that it is an easy thing, it is not an easy situation at all. Should they simply be freed after a few years? A number have been freed after military review panels let them go. and a good number of them have gone right back to fighting. Should they be put on trial in U.S. courts? Well, that would be a huge change, as non-U.S. citizens have NEVER had the same rights to U.S. courts. And then there is the difficult issue of evidence to make a legal case, etc. which is often very difficult to collect when one is in the middle of fighting a war. Again, these issues are very complex, and the one-sided view that is often seen in the press, ESPECIALLY the overseas press, often does not tell both sides of the story.
Finally, as to Couric and Gibson — when I see either Couric or Gibson do some tough questioning of Obama on his relationships with Ayers and Wright and Rezco and his own complete lack of executive experience, then I’ll start believing in some sort of press balance. Nearly the entire U.S. media is in the bag for Obama. If you go and find the actual transcript for Gibson’s interview with Palin, for example, when he asks her about the U.S. relationship with Russia, you will see that his show intentionally edited out nearly a paragraph of her explanation where she clearly downplayed the idea of any real conflict with Russia. So what were the headlines the next day? Palin suggests war with Russia might be necessary, etc. Couric and Gibson’s goals were to make Palin look as bad as possible. And you know what? That’s perfectly fine with me, as long as they take the exact same attitude with Obama and Biden. That’s why Tim Russert was so admired, because he took it to both sides of the aisle, despite his own ideology. Unfortunately there are very few Tim Russerts out there, and Gibson and Couric certainly aren’t two of them.
I enjoy the debate, but this will likely be my last comment. Time to move onto other things.
All the best.