All children born from a Saudi father are viewed as Saudi children. However in the cases of mixed marriages (Saudi father to non-Saudi mother) while the children are considered Saudi children, in many cases the mother (and others) do not want the children to forget his or her heritage from both sides of the family. Therefore you might sometimes here children (lovingly and with humor) referred to as:
Saudi Amerabian (Saudi married to an American)
Arabish (Saudi married to a Brit)
Saudi Ararussian (Saudi married to a Russian)
Saudi Arabski (Saudi married to a Pole)
Saudi Araroccan (Saudi married to Moroccan)
Saudi Arabese (Saudi married to Lebanese)
Saudi Araqi (Saudi married to Iraqi)
Saudi Arghani (Saudi married to Afghani)
Saudi Arapaki (Saudi married to Pakistani)
Saudi Arhindi (Saudi married to Indian)
Saudi Aripa (Saudi married to Filipina)
Saudi Arispania (Saudi married to Spaniard)
Saudi Arinese (Saudi married to Chinese)
Please feel free to contribute your slang terms referring to bi-cultural marriages to the list.
Filed under: culture, pets, relationships, Saudi Arabia
You bring a very interesting argument … Well Done !!!
It is clearly obvious that you don’t refer to us “Saudis” simply as Saudis but rather as Arabians. I personally prefer to call the likes of us: “Saudi Arabian”
This is cute, but it opens an important subject. I often wonder how these children are developing. Many of them have spent childhood summers in America, and therefore feel some birthright to their American heritage.
How do they make life decisions? Where do they go to college? Who do they marry? Where do they establish their adult homes?
Four Amerabian kids I’ve seen grow up (two boys, two girls) are all living n the United States now, and are not eager to repatriate to the Kingdom.
Muhammad – actually with the exception of what this particular post may infer, I always do refer to Saudis as Saudis or Saudi Arabians but never Arabians.
Marahm – I’ve done some past posts on this subject. I can’t recall what I titled them now (hard to remember with over 700 postings) but I’ll see if I can dig them up.
At least in KSA most of the kids I know whose mother is not a Saudi do consider themselves very much Saudi but simply have a “foreign” mom. And they marry other Saudis (at least views from here). Most try to attend university outside of KSA if they can.
From my experience…if your daddys an Arab..it doesnt really matter what your mother is…your considered an Arab…and must walk talk and act like an Arab. Most children born of these mixed marriages are hardly ever encouraged to foster interest in their mothers race, culture, history, country etc…they are Arab ….period….its the lucky ones that actually get to spend some time in their mothers country and therefore get to see a little of the other side of their heritage.
I know that I have some readers who are in bicultural marriages where one spouse is Saudi and the other is not and they have children. I hope they will come forward with their views.
HI:) I’m one of those readers who has a bi cultural child!
My husband is of course Saudi and I am American. Our daughter is only 3 1/2 years, but we are trying our best to raise her with an awareness of both of her cultures. She lived most of her young life in the USA, but when we moved here to KSA she adjusted very well.
She will never be refered to as just Saudi, or just American…we will make sure of that. She is both.
Just the other day my husband got into an argument when someone called our daughter Saudi…he said “and American”, the other guys said “yes, but Saudi first. her father is Saudi.”, husband said “no, American too” and it went on and on.
I’m going to have to adopt the term Amerabian, that’s cute. When my daughter talks its usually in half English, half Arabic, so I always say she is speaking Arabish:)
As far as school or who she will marry, that is yet to be seen. I’m not sure how comfortable I’d be letting my children go abroad to study if we remained in KSA, and IMO my daughter can marry who she chooses as long as he is a faithful Mulsim and a good provider for her.
Thanks for sharing Umm Sumayah. I have a number of friends in the bi-cultural marriages whose children are now university age. Most of them are going to school outside, even the girls. And these children view themselves as Saudi.
So i will be interesting as your daughter gets older if your Saudi husband will continue to say she is both Saudi and American.
I have a cousin who is bi-racial Both parents are Saudis, but the father is of Yemeni descent and the mother of Indonesian descent. We (the Indonesian side) think he looks Yemeni. His Yemeni cousins think he looks Indonesian!
One problem that I know of for bi-racial children is that they are usually a target for bullies at school. Especially bullies who were brought up with racist ideas. When we were young and crazy, a friend of mine (who was sadly indoctrinated the tribal way of thinking) was discussing with me the possibility of marrying a non-Saudi. One of his biggest criticisms of the idea was that he didn’t want his kid to be called “son of the (insert nationality) woman.”
Great post as usual AB!
How children turn up, (in my own experience and limited knowledge of other people’s experiences) has a lot to do with where they are raised as well (in addition to how they are raised to view themselves in relation to the world around them).
If for example the father is Saudi and the mother is not and the family resides in Saudi then they will certainly lean toward being Saudi more often than where the mother is from. You get all the cultural/environmental influences coupled with the strong sense of belonging anyone needs and you’d see that fewer people would like being different.
My father’s Arab and my mother’s not. They come from different backgrounds, what united them was religious belief and we were raised in the UAE, in neither one of their countries and with little influences from their respective cultures. Basically, tradition didn’t play as strong a role as religion did in our household and so we grew up associating ourselves with neither culture (although we lean more toward my mother’s.)
However, we do speak Arabic and are familiar with many of the different Arabic cultures as we lived in a multicultural environment.
In our case, how we grew up viewing ourselves depended on what we were taught and where we lived. There was less pressure from society to conform because it wasn’t ours. And when vacationing in Iran (where mom’s from) we were looked as outsiders (simply because we lived abroad and of course cuz of my dad) and were treated somewhat royally (lol) and so never felt we belonged.
I’ll digress here and say a trip to Iran as an adult brought excitement as I thought I’d meet people who speak the same language I do and so maybe we would connect on a deeper more special level. Boy was I wrong!
Language does play a role in uniting people in certain ways but it certainly isn’t a major one. It’s about the mentality/attitude/outlook toward life you share that does the connecting one looks for with others. Ok, ADD moment over.
And now life decided my future children need more fun getting confused than I had and has blessed them with a Saudi dad
Now theyyy wouldn’t know what they are! We aren’t planning on living in Saudi (not now anyway) but it’s important to us that if we have children that they learn about our backgrounds, beyond religion, traditions (some anyway) spice life up and so they’re fun to know!
Ok, time to go to bed, I’ve just been up too long and I’m getting this feeling this comment will not end if I don’t!
Have a beautiful day!
Saudi Jawa – Yes; I have heard some people when referring to children say the same kind of thing “Oh yes…she’s the daughter of the American woman” but in these cases I think they were saying it that way to let me know and make me feel better being an American.
Youth can be brutal the world over when it comes to bullying and/or cliques.
Tee – How beautiful for sharing and I thought you tied your ADD moment in to the post quite gracefully! (smile)
Here’s an additional example from my family. My brother in law married a Filipina lady and they have 2 teenage boys together. The boys were raised in Canada for a while, and eventually moved here to Saudi. Now, they go to Saudi school, speak with Saudi dialect, and if it weren’t for their Asian ispired eyes, you’d never know they weren’t full blooded Saudis.
Also, all of my sisters in law married non Saudis, and none of their children are considered Saudis. Though they were born and raised here, and their mothers hold the Saudi nationality, if asked they will say they are Palestinian, Jordanian, etc.
Quite the interesting family, no? We have a real mish mash of people:)
My kids are mixed Saudi and American of course. They lived all their life in the US and never had any issues concerning their background.
Regarding Jawa’s comment on Saudi. In Makkah, where I grew up, there were tensions between kids from tribal heritage vs ones with ethnic background. Makkah is a melting bot of many national origins. Mine is mixed with 4 grand parents with different backgrounds. In addition of having my mother being Shiia and father as Sunnah. I never encounter issues because of that mix since they were all Saudi’s.
However, I know friends that had foreign mothers and that created problems for them. It is usually similar to the comment carol used . They are typically referred to as “son of (insert nationality of mother)”.
Umm Sumayah,
“if it weren’t for their Asian ispired eyes, you’d never know they weren’t full blooded Saudis.”
There are many Saudi’s that look Asian. Makkah and west coast cities have a large group with Indonesian background (called Jawa in Saudi). Most have been there for generations. So they are full Saudi’s in every way.
Umm Sumayah – you raise a very good point in that children born of a Saudi mother and non=Saudi father are NOT viewed as Saudis. And yet by comparison for example, in the Jewish faith, if the mother is Jewish the child is automatically considered Jewish.
I was just talking today about taking my boys home to America so we can unite the family again…everyone seems rather personally afronted by the idea of me taking them there…”But this is their country!!!” I keep hearing over and over again…didnt hear it that much for my girls when they were getting ready to leave…but how come America cant be their country too? A little of this…a little of that…moderation in all things yes? It always seems so black and white with Arabs…no gray at all.
Completely my own opinion and experience on that point.
My son was born in the US and was raised there until last year, at 14, when we moved here to Jeddah. My son, of course, FEELS more American than he does Saudi. However he always acknowledges that he is BOTH.
I enjoyed all the combo names you came up with – fun!
So if a Saudi marries someone from Alsace does that make their offspring “Salsa”? Or maybe a “Saudisation”? One can have a lot of fun with this?
My husband is Palestinian and I am Malaysia and we live in the US. We are truly global family. We try to raise our children to be aware and proud of who they are and their heritage. Being Muslim comes first, the right and wrong according to Islamic perspective is how we want them to use as their guide, especially standing up for justice, truth and respect for all. Culture and tradition is important and we do whatever is necessary for them to feel comfortable in both. It is nice I think to be able to socialize in both cultures, to love and to learn from them. I appreciate Tee’s contribution. It helps me see the importance of culture. Especially the part which enrich ones life and not contradict Islamic teachings.
I have a friend who is Half Saudi Half American. His Dad is Saudi but his Mother is American but she also comes from a Cuban family. You can tell he is Saudi just from looking at him however he doesnt speak Arabic since he has gone to English speaking schools his whole life. He is going to go to University in the States and I dont think he intends to move back to KSA though he may go for a visit to see his family.
Saudi in US,
Very interesting:) I didn’t realize that there was an originally asian population of Saudis. I guess you learn something new every day.
I have a question for you, and any other Saudis who may be reading. Do you, or Saudis in general, consider those who are not ‘born’ Saudis, as Saudi? For example, my husband’s family is orginally Palestinian as is the case for many Saudis. Or what if an American woman married to a Saudi chose to take the Saudi nationality after living here for a long time? Would those people be respected as Saudis as much as pure Saudis?
Children born from Saudi fathers and American mothers are as different as the fingers on your hand. (common saying here) Yes, some decide to live in America, but many stay here or move to countries such as England, France, or Dubai. Generally, these kids feel more comfortable in a ‘big city’ atmosphere rather than a small town where their difference is more pronounced. Our children have lived in the US, Lebanon, Dubai and Saudi and now have the tools to decide for themselves where they want to live in the future. I think that if you give them an education and an open mind, along with the languages of both countries, they will flourish anywhere….or be smart enough to move.
Umm Sumayah,
What I have observed at least is that those whose background goes to Palestine or Yemen or Jordan or elsewhere but yet have the Saudi nationality are still referred to as the “Saudi of XXX descent.” And the expat women I know who have married Saudis and taken the nationality in the eyes of Saudi are still looked upon as the American or the British, etc.
In many other parts of the world the global citizen is accepted and embraced but in Saudi Arabia there is still the “tribal mentally” that in meeting anyone most people will want to know the complete family name which is indicative of who the tribe is and where they are from.
Umm Sumayah,
Regarding your question. I was born a Saudi with 10 generations of ancestry in Hijaz on both sides of my family. Even with that I am considered less of a Saudi in certain parts of the country, because I am not tribal.
Now in the Hijaz region the case is different. I am considered a local with a position based on my family heritage. For first generation Saudi’s it is really a mix. I have friends that were nationalized Saudi, but since they lived most of their lives in Makkah and have a local accent and mannerism, they are treated like locals. If they are so new and behave different they will be treated different by society.
Thanks Carol and Saudi in US.
The whole tribal mentality thing still fascinates me, and I think it always will. To me, people are people, Americans are Americans, Saudis are Saudis and so on.
Carol, I wonder if you could somehow interview people from different tribes to get an idea how this mindset works.
I’ll see what I can do Umm Sumayah and also stay tuned… I believe I have some interviews coming up this month that you and others will enjoy.
Understanding tribes in Saudi is something that could easily fill a thick book yet still leave unanswered questions.
Carol,
We know women who have lived in Lebanon and Saudi for 30 or 40 years and speak the language like a native. But, they will never be accepted as natives by the majority of people in this part of the world. Name is everything here. (Bayt meen?)
I’m in an interraceal marriage but have no children. From where I stand I think that it is important for the children of such relationships to walk and talk Saudi so to speak as that is where they live but if they were to live in America I would say they needed to walk and talk american. As for one part of the childs nationality taking a back burner I thing that really depends on the parents.
I have a friend whose husband is Saudi and she is american and her children are more sauid then anything else. They speak Arabic better and there Arabic education is better.
On the other hand I have a Moroccan friend married to a Saudi and she sees to it that her children are raised as both and make a lot of effort to that end.
So, as I said before it really does depend on who the parents are and how they choose to raise their children.
As for me personally, I would see to it that my children are educated in both cultures and others for that matter in order that they have a more worldly view of life and as a result are more open minded and tolerant. Because what is right for me is not necessarily right for everyone.
Please forgive any typos in my previous comment as I accidentally sent it before I was finished. :/
A2s, Desert Flower – Thanks for your comments.
In my opinion I think there is less focus outside of KSA on whether a child is from a bi-cultural relationship as inside of Saudi.
Additionally with Saudiazation, all the more reason and emphasis for children in the bi-cultural relationships to be seen as more Saudi too.
But ultimately for the children and parents it is up to them on how kids are raised, whether any emphasis is placed on the two cultures on not.
Salam, iam a filipina married to a saudi, i have 3 children,we raising them here in ksa,all of them are talking arabish.We make it an effort to instill to them the good values on both our sides.I do know some saudi ARIPA grown ups ( as u called it ),they are succesful in their chosen fields,& are married to saudis too.
Saudi children sometimes are naughty, i remember an incident my oldest son told me,he was playing in a water park with his siblings, a saudi girl about my son’s age came to him and said “go away dont play here you’re filipino”,(my son got more of my features),he then stand up and told the girl in his fluent arabic central region diction, that every child of any nationality are allowed to play in the water park.The girl was surprised and left the area, then after a while cameback with her siblings to play with my kids.
Om Mohd – thanks so much for sharing. I am sure you were so proud of your son! It is a shame that because some nationalities are viewed as ones who usually perform stereotyped positions that the children even at young ages can be discriminated against and stereotyped. That’s nice to hear as well that the girl came back with her siblings and they all played. Now if adults could be so reasonable!
Haha, your examples are very cute. There isn’t a term long enough for what I am so I’ll just say I’m a mutt lol
awww, Maya, you have to tell us more and give us a chance to come up with a term!
hi everyone. very intersting reading and alot for me to think about. i am a new zealander married to a saudi and we have often had discussion of various aspects of the already mentioned. but husband is adament that our new daughter due in 3 months time will be saudi. period. and we have long long long discuassions about the fact that she will also be a kiwi(new zealander) i think the main concern for my husband is protecting his child from the bad influences in a western country.being a muslim myself i can understand that but im also a westerner and so some of these “bad” influences are totally acceptable and part of my culture. so i am imagining some very colourful discussions in the not to distant future
Good luck Umm Yara and congratulations on the upcoming birth of your child too.
Yes, your husband’s comment on “protecting his children from the bad influences of a western country” can ruffle some feathers… I think it is more a matter of parenting a child and raising them with the right values, ethics and discipline. And like you said, you are also a product of a western culture so it is not fair to infer that all of western culture is bad. Not all of Saudi culture is good either!
Best Regards,
Carol
salaam alekum my father is saudi and my mother she is indian but we never been to saudi my father was dead in 1993 and we try to talk with saudi consulate but they dint talk with us but im keep trying to talk with them and i really want my citizenship in saudi arab what u think about this please tell me shell i try again and again or forget everything
Hi Saudi,
I’m not sure exactly what the procedure would be. Do you have a birth certificate which clearly identifies your father as a SAudi national? Do you know any of your Dad’s family members?
yes i has my father passport copy and i have my all certificate that said he is my father but im very poor guy yah i know my father brother but he dint speek english or hindi and i dont know arabic my father brother he also married with indian women they live in saudi arab dammam american bedu give me some ideas and what u think if i apply for citizenship they give me ?
Saudi – Given that your father is deceased and you have never lived in Saudi Arabia, I do not know about the applicable laws.
You could consult with a lawyer who is familiar with shariah law and Saudi Arabia; you could seek an appointment with someone from the Saudi consulate to discuss this issue.
Also read what is on the Ministry of Interior and Ministry of Foreign Affairs web sites to see if there is information on either of those sites that can help apprise you of rights.
Perhaps someone more familiar than me with options in this regard will be able to comment.
yes ur right and thanks for commets i “ll try my best to work hard about this if u know any websides who helps me then tell me ok thanks
Saudi – My post of today has a link to the Foreign Affairs website which may help you. Also if you check out http://www.arriyadh.com it has so many other useful links associated with it.
Saudi – you may find this link of interest:
http://www.moi.gov.sa/wps/wcm/resources/file/ebe1e84274d8c95/EN_saudi_nationality_system.pdf
It is in English and about Saudi Citizenship System
that link for foreigners who is from another country and the thing is my blood is saudi and my father is saudi national so many peoples tell me if i apply for saudi nationality then they have to give me bcuz my father is saudi and they tell me strong ur papers i dont know which paper is value there if u know then tell me i deside to apply after ramzan inshallah if u know any thing about this then please tell me i really dont know any thing but im doing what peoples tells i know so my members from my father family like his brothers and his sister but they dont know speek english but one of my father brother his son he know english i talk with him he said apply and see if they give u then its good but i dont know about this and so many peoples tell me this case is old they dont respond u but i was small that time and now im big so im applying now anyways thanks for reply me ur really sweet u give me ur time and im really glad to talk with u bye see u
Good luck Saudi. Read the document through carefully. It does have a paragraph for children born of a Saudi father and the right to citizenship. I’m sure you’ll need a lot of patience though because things naturally do not happen quickly when it comes to Saudi Arabia. Regards.
yes ur right thats way im littel worred about this but every thing will be fine inshallah and which document are u talking about and what they want to see can i ask u some thing if my father brother son he come india and i go with him in saudi embassy then they do fast work about this tell me some thing that helps me thanks for reply
Saudi, there’s really nothing more that I can tell you as this is not my area of expertise. Make an appointment with the consular and go to that appointment with all of your documents which illustrate you are the child of a Saudi national. Good luck.
ok inshallah thanks for complement ur really so sweet where are u from
You’re welcome, Saudi, And if you click on the page “about” that gives information about me and where I am from.
i like ur page but i have one more qustion if my baba saudi but mam”s not then who am I >?
hey its not funny but saudi u beware with peoples if u want any help i will help u
hello American bedu how are u i just wanna tell u i just got my citizenship and i am saudi now wow thankz for help me
Haha this is awesome to meet others! My father is Saudi and my mother is “American,” but her parents are both from Strasbourg, France…Unlike most half-Saudi half Americans I’ve met, my life has been the complete opposite! I was raised and schooled in the States, and spent my summers and vacations in Saudi or with my Dad’s family elsewhere (Paris, Thailand, Dubai, etc.)
I’m looking forward to repatriating after I earn an American degree in university! Much more opportunity to live better, be successful, and earn more in the Bilad I believe! I’m interested to hear from others! Especially being trilingual
Ma3salaama, À bientôt, & Bye!
Faisal
faisal.abu@gmail.com
Saudi in US:
Are we related!? Haha my S3udi-side is Hejazi and of course not tribal- I believe our family came to Jeddah about 200 years ago from Iran…Maybe more! Even still the Bedou consider my family in Jeddah as not “pure” ! Ha! I suppose I will never understand the S3udi tribal mentality
Welcome Faisal and thanks for sharing your heritage!
Hi American Bedu i am indian years old guy i love one saudi girl and she love me to but she scared with her famliy and we wanna marry will u give me some ideas
Indian,
All I can say is read and talk to those who have had similar experiences. It is much much harder for a Saudi woman to marry a non-Arab and if her family is not aware of the relationship, that makes it doubly hard and sensitive and quite frankly, difficult. I can’t see the relationship going anywhere without support and concurrence from her family.
bedu her family dont like me becouse i am indian and they want she marry with saudi guy i know its hard but bedu love dint see country and religion love is blind and our love is true will u tell me why saudi peoples want saudi womens marry with only arab if govt allow to saudi guys to marry with another country womens why they dont allow women to marry with non saudi i know alot of saudi guys they marry with indian womens and take them in saudi and i want like that i want she to live with me in india bedu is that possibel >?
Indian,
I fear you are fighting an uphill battle. If her family is aware of the feelings the two of you have and expressed their disapproval, I say be careful! You are viewed as the outsider and if the family feels you are interfering or threatening to them, it could become difficult for you in Saudi. Like I said earlier, in order for a Saudi bicultural marriage to succeed you need the concurrence and support of the family.
lets see what happend will come bec,,,, i think love is wall lol bedu she talk with her mother and her mother cry for her its like shit i love her and her family think i wanna marry her for living saudi they are drunk cuz i think india is better then saudi
Good luck to you Indian!
bedu thanks i like u to i feel like i will worn and if u see from my eyes there in no impossible if whole saudi try to stop me then also i will not stop i true love her and she do to i wanna show them love is strong word and if we say its mean we have to work about it what u think bedu
Indian,
You can always count on me to speak (write) frankly and while I have no doubts of your feelings for her, I am not optimistic and do believe you have a hard uphill battle ahead of you. I also caution you to be careful. You are the “guest” in the country and if the family feels you are a threat to them, their daughter and your traditions, you will be the one to suffer more. It sounds like you are aware of the challenges and the risks so your eyes are opened. Good luck!
bedu love is risk and risk is life belive me they never know what is my another step and i know everything about them i have secret agent and u know thats she is my secret agent lol her father he like me but he dont want his dauther marry with indian guy hey i have one qustion why arabic peoples dont want another country guy marry with arabic women but they marry with any country women what u think its fair >?
That’s a good question Indian and most likely due to the double standards which exist there.
bedu lol its funny bcuz saudi guys have no minds they have only,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i dont think they are better then us india is great
Hello American Bedu I see ur page and i like it alot American bedu why arabic guy marry with non arab and give them divorce My father also saudi ut my mother is not and i am also not he give divorce to my mom and he think marraige life is finished but he dont know marraige life finished only when we dead he use my mother for 45days and went bck to saudi but he dont know that she was pregnent forget it its not matter is now i was contact him and tell this so u know what he want me to come saudi and live with him will u please tell me if i live with him is that good or bad becouse my mom she show me this world she ork and take care of my every wish i told him i want my mom he said its not possibell and he was crying its like shit i hate tears even if devil cry he come india and he see my birth cert and all of document and he want me to go saudi embassy with him but i dont wnt becouse i am not saudi now i am indian i know my blood is saudi but why should i go there and live with my step brothers sisters and blah blah blah i dont know and u know what i dont know arabic and he dont know english he said please learn arabic i told him why should i learn why dont u learn english Amerrican Bedu what i do now u tell me i dont wanna leave my mom for one single moment
allah help,
The answer to your question about whether it’s good or bad for you to live in Saudi depends on a number of things:
1. Is this guy your natural father?
That business about him using your mother for 45 days and then divorcing her has me wondering, because you must be more than 45 days old or you wouldn’t have written this.
The point here is the exact nature of the authority he has over you under the law. If he is your natural father, it is considerable, especially if you are female. See below.
2. Are you male or female?
3. If you are male, how old are you?
Not sure what the legal age of adulthood is for males in Saudi Arabia – no doubt someone else here knows better than I do.
Females, in a very real sense, *never* become adults in the eyes of the law. For their entire life, they require the permission of a male guardian – usually their father or their husband; failing that, another male relative (even, if need be, their grandson!) – to do nearly anything, including get identity documents or travel.
3. Are you comfortable being *compelled* to live in Saudi Arabia at least until you are legally an adult (if you are male) or even for the rest of your life (if you are female)?
The point is this: if this guy is your natural father, unless you are both male and over the legal age of adulthood, the minute you set foot in Saudi Arabia, you will find yourself legally obligated to stay there at least until you reach adulthood, and possibly the rest of your life (if female).
Your father may even promise you he’ll let you travel as you please, but once you are there, he is under no obligation to live up to his promise, and there is nothing you can do about it if he decides not to let you travel.
Given your apparent discomfort at the idea of being separated from your mother, sounds like living in Saudi is something you probably won’t want to do.
Allah help,
You got some excellent advice from caraboska. There really is not much which I can add to what has been provided. Please do let us know how this goes for you.
all the best,
Carol
American Bedu,
Is it true that the legal age of adulthood in Saudi Arabia is 18? That is something I have so far been unable to confirm from sufficiently official sources to be able to report that as fact, so I’m posing the question here for the benefit of allah help.
Thanks and God bless you
caraboska
yes i am male and i am 22years old and he is my own father and i think i dont need him now he dont take care of me and my future before he want me now but why he told me he have more kids there with another wife and and he is saudi American bedu my mother want me to go with him becouse he is my father and i think mother is better then father if i want i will apply for citizenship i hear they will give me saudi citizenship but i know they never give to my mother and its like impossibel for me to live with out her she is my life will u tell me if i apply for saudi citizenship they will give me with my mother he was divorce her i hear they dont give to my mom i dont know but i wanna step slowly lets see what happen come will u tell me what i do !!!!!!!!!!!!
Caraboska,
I asked a Saudi official from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs who believed 18 is the legal age of adulthood in KSA.
Allah help,
If you have not done so already, I think you should sit and have a very long talk with your mother. Express your feelings and confusions to her as well as find out her feelings on the various reasons she wants you to go to Saudi Arabia. That may help give you some peace of mind, if not better understanding too.
Yes; as a child of a male Saudi citizen, you would be given Saudi citizenship. Talk to your mom and your dad about what benefits that would offer you such as greater opportunities perhaps with education, etc.
If he divorced your mom, it really is not surprising that he did take another wife and have children with her. Are you curious to meet and get to know your half-siblings? Are your grandparents still alive on your father’s side?
As a male you would certainly have more freedoms than a female and you are of legal age which should not prohibit you from leaving KSA after a visit.
I suggest you make a list of why you should go vis-a-vis why you should not go. Consult with your mom and your dad. Take your time and surely you’ll come to the decision that is right for you.
Good luck,
American Bedu
my dad he dont wanna see my mom and my mom she said he divorce her why should i face her and i told her if she dint then i also but my father is like 65yearts old and he dont have mom dad who was living i think and his family they are saudi and they dont want me but only my dad want me and i dont want with out mother i know they will give me citizenship and job but i “ll alone there with out mother and what u think his family want me no and they never i think i can apply with out father also but i want my mother to come with me i dont have any one here i live with my mom and she live with me i cant stay her here alone i see in ur page the guy name was saudi he get saudi citizenship his father was dead and some thing long story is his whole family get citizenship and how u face embassy which papers they want do u know anything about that
Allah help
” i wanna step slowly lets see what happen”
This is excellent advice to yourself, based on what you have said about your family and current situation. Many long lost relatives find reuniting and their imagined relationships much more difficult in reality that in their dreams and desires. Your father’s family in Saudi Arabia may be much less enthusiastic and welcoming towards you than he would hope or like to believe.
You are wise not burn your bridges (cut off the positives of your situation in India), even as you explore the possibilities, benefits and disadvantages of taking Saudi citizenship, while remembering your obligations to your mother.
According to signed international conventions, the age of majority (adulthood) in Saudi Arabia is 18 (women are always dependent on a mahrem).
Good luck!
Chiara thanks and ur right let step slowly i hear i desirve for saudi citizenship when i was 18years old
PS Allah help
Based on American Bedu’s and your last comments, it sounds as if you should explore the possibilities for yourself and your mother with you as the head of your household, and whatever help your father can give you in the way of jobs, citizenship would be in addition to that. If you do move to Saudi with your mother the more independence the two of you have the better (based on my professional, not Saudi experience).
Allah help,
You are fortunate to be male and an adult in the eyes of the law. You would have the choice of ‘just visiting’ your father every so often, without the obligation to stay in Saudi Arabia. Maybe just visiting your father for starters would be good, to test the waters without getting yourself into a situation you can’t easily back out of (if, God forbid, that became necessary).
I mean, it looks like you would need to answer the following questions (and probably other questions as well) before you commit to anything more than a visit:
1. Will you be able to build a life for yourself and your mother in Saudi Arabia (work, family relationships, etc.) that is better than what you already have in India?
2. Are you ready, able and willing to take on the primary responsibility for your mother’s life in Saudi?
3. Does your mother have the same view of the above questions? Will she be satisfied with the life she will have there if you and she move to Saudi Arabia together?
American Bedu, Chiara, et al.,
What is the order of precedence of mahrams in Saudi Arabia? Evidently Allah help’s mother is not presently married to anyone, so there is no husband to take account of. Would it be her father (if he’s still alive), her father’s brothers… ?
What place would an adult son occupy in the order of precedence? Would it make any difference if the son is in Saudi Arabia, but everyone else who might theoretically be ahead of him in the ‘pecking order’ is outside of Saudi?
What I’m driving at is, in what measure can Allah help actually be the ‘primary mahram’ for his mother?
Caraboska–you have once again given excellent advice.
Allah help
Visiting, if a visa were obtainable, or after citizenship and before moving would be an excellent idea for you , and your mother if possible.
Other issues would be language skills for both, work or social life for mother, and to what extent acceptance based on race and religion would be possible.
As far as I am aware, in Islam in general, the order would be father, husband if married, oldest son if widowed, divorced and no father alive or present in the country. The ex is no longer a mahram, since he could be a potential future husband.
Chiara,
All I can really do is ask questions. I am glad that there are people more knowledgeable about the details contributing to this discussion. God willing, this will lead to a favorable solution for Allah help.
Allah help,
From what Chiara writes, it looks like you could function as your mom’s primary mahram if you and she were to move to Saudi together.
You asked about citizenship. I in fact came across a site recently that spoke about the requirements for taking citizenship if you are eligible (which you are since your father is a citizen).
While trying to find it again (unsuccessfully so far), I came across a piece of information that the requirements may be different (in terms of what documents you need) depending whether you apply from inside Saudi Arabia, or whether you submit your application outside Saudi Arabia (for example, in India).
So before you can answer the question of what documents you will need, you will have to decide where you will make your application, and then contact the appropriate authorities in that place to find out what the requirements are.
Obviously, if you want to move together with your mother, you need to also figure out what documentation would be necessary for your mother – what kind of visa she would get, what the requirements are.
Two more things about citizenship:
1. Apparently Saudi Arabia in principle does not accept dual citizenship. It might be necessary to give up your Indian citizenship to get Saudi citizenship. You need to think about how interested you are in retaining Indian citizenship, what your status would be with respect to India if, for example, the Saudi government confiscated your Indian passport when you applied for Saudi citizenship.
2. Everything I’ve read about Saudi citizenship suggests that you must be a Muslim to become a citizen of Saudi Arabia.
Even if you don’t want citizenship, your life will be much easier if you are Muslim and willing to practice your religion according to the interpretation fostered by the government and the Ministry for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice (or whatever it’s called in English).
If you are not Muslim – or even if you are, for example, a Shiite or other non-Wahhabi Muslim – you still must maintain a public appearance of keeping to the rules of this interpretation as far as your lifestyle is concerned. Anything in your lifestyle that deviates from the official interpretation in any way (especially any religious observances – Muslim or not) must be kept strictly private.
You mentioned that you do not know Arabic. Chiara is very right to mention this as an issue. I have lived outside of my native country for nearly 18 years, and speaking from that experience, I would strongly suggest you and your mother learn Arabic fluently before trying to settle permanently in Saudi Arabia. You will be much less vulnerable to exploitation of various kinds, much more able to function independently, and much more able to make friends with people around you if you speak and read the language.
Knowing the language can also do much to enhance your acceptance in society. Although then again, from what I have been reading on this blog, it may be a good thing that your father is Saudi, especially if he is ‘pure Saudi’ (i.e. tribal), but probably no one will ever forget that your mother is Indian. So, Chiara’s suggestion about considering the social acceptance factor is a good one, and applies doubly for your mother, since she does not have Saudi ancestry.
caraboska thanks and ur right i like ur comments and ur comments really show me a road and i will try to fallow and yes my father is pure saudi but i am not lol i dont know why my father he dont want my mother to live with me in saudi i really dont know why and i diont talk him alot becouse of language but i will handel i know littel arabic actally my qustion is my mother is a ex wifey of my father and now she is not his wifey so i apply for citizenship they give her she have strong gurds bcuz of me so many peoples told me she will not get becouse my father give divorce her and most importent thing is he dont love her they think indains dirty and blah blah i live in india from my birth but he want me becouse my blood is saudi u know i laugh about something guees what my father ask me when we meet him what is my qualification he was asking me like he was send me money for study but this is destiny my mother brother he work in saudi when my uncle saw my father he try to talk him but he dont talk but finally he was talk him and he tell him about me u know he come here in india in 10days i only like that he care but but i hate when he dont love my mother i dont know what to do but i learn now and t
Allah help
Based on my work with children of divorced parents, your desire to have your parents love each other is common, but near to impossible. It would be good if they could be civil to each other, and if your father doesn’t try to actively block your mother’s being with you. He has no legal standing with your mother as an ex-husband, as far as I am aware from other Muslim countries.
It sounds as if your father wasn’t even aware of your mother’s pregnancy with you nor of your existence, and when he became aware he saught you out and wants a positive relationship with you. This is admirable of a father. However, you cannot expect him to be a husband to your mother as well.
Sorry, if these words seem harsh, they are not intended to be. I hope you will consider visiting Saudi if possible, and think about life there in terms of work, language, race, religion, and social life for you and your mother, before you move, and while you are looking into citizenship.
American Bedu provided some links on citizenship above in her replies to “Saudi”.
Allah help,
You have said before that you absolutely do want to continue living with or near your rmother. But here you are saying that your father does not want you to bring your mother to Saudi Arabia.
This could be a very serious problem. Your father might try to make life very difficult for both you and your mother if he really doesn’t want her there. Enough so that you might have to avoid him entirely in order to ‘make it work’ with you and your mother together in Saudi. Which would kind of defeat the purpose of moving to Saudi – to have more of a relationship with your father.
Indeed, from what I have read, if your father has the right sort of connections, he could even arrange for it to be impossible for your mother to come at all. And there is the question of how truthful the man is. Will he tell you that he plans to do this, or will he wait until you have already made your plans, and then spring it on you when you can’t really back out anymore (because, for example, you have a job lined up, a contract signed, etc.)?
And if he has that kind of connections, it might be difficult even to hide it from him that you plan to bring your mother. All the more so that you have apparently already expressed interest in bringing her with you.
What I am saying here is, it sounds like your father’s opposition to your mother’s coming means you have to be VERY careful and not do anything hasty. And you must be prepared not to move there if your conditions aren’t met.
So, just how interested are you in having a relationship with your father? What will you do if he tells you you must choose between him and your mother?
Assuming you are not willing to give up being with your mother, what is the best way to maintain a relationship with your father – moving to Saudi Arabia or just visiting?
How able are you to put your foot down and tell your father that you will only move to Saudi if you can bring your mother with you – that if you do move, you will bring her and that is that?
Because let me tell you something very plainly: only if you are able to put your foot down in this matter will you be able to ‘make it work’ to bring your mother with you.
If you cannot put your foot down, that amounts to not being able to provide proper living conditions for her. And this must be a HUGE question for you: what is the fair thing to do for your mother?
Another thing I have come across: where did your father divorce your mother, and was it a proper Islamic divorce, with the appropriate documentation? I have read that Saudi Arabia does not recognize secular divorces, and sometimes will not even recognize Islamic divorces that took place outside of Saudi.
The bottom line: in the eyes of Saudi law, your parents may still be married. Which could make things *very* complicated. You could not be your mother’s primary mahram, and your mother would be completely at your father’s mercy if she came to Saudi Arabia.
So you *really* need to find out the exact legal status of your parents’ divorce before you make any moves involving your mother.
Allah help – on further reading all the comments my suggestion is that you see if you can first get to know your father and build a relationship with him OU
ITSIDE of Saudi Arabia, whether in India or a third country. Make sure that you are confident in knowing him as an individual before making that giant leap to a country where you are entitled to a birthright but has not been your home.
And as has been stated, while of course you care and want to protect your mother, you should not expect your father to want to resume a relationship with her. And for you to answer only, has your mother even given an indication that she would wish to resume a relationship with him? It sounds very much like your father has his own life and additional family in Saudi but on learning he has another son (you) also wants to have a relationship with you too. Given all the details and circumstances, what you think and feel matters a lot and do not allow anyone to brow beat or influence you in your decision of where you go or stay.
Allah help
American Bedu’s suggestion is excellent, and really gets back to the advice you initially gave to yourself, to proceed very slowly and cautiously, and to protect your life in India even as you explore this new relationship and possibilities.
Allah help,
American Bedu’s suggestion to first see if you can develop that relationship with your father outside of Saudi Arabia is indeed a good one.
If you do manage to do that, however, it looks like actually moving to Saudi is complicated enough that if you do decide to move in that direction, you need a good lawyer to advise you on all those things that you might not even know to ask about.
There are just so many things to be considered that if you try to find out everything yourself, probably the more you look, the more you will find out you *don’t* know. And the stakes are very high – Saudi Arabia seems to be a place where there really isn’t any room for error…
Everyone else out there,
Does anyone know of a really good lawyer who would have the necessary expertise and be able and willing to help Allah help to ask and get answers to all the legal questions that need to be considered?
thanks American Bedu and caraboska i will try my best and lets see what happend come my father he is in india now and he want me to face saudi embassy in delhi but i dint agree with him i told him on his face if with mother yes if not then never and please if anyone know lawyer who would have the necessary expertise and be able and willing to help me then please tell me thanks
Allah help,
May Allah give you the wisdom to know the next step to take at all times, and the strength to do the right thing and let no one keep you from doing it.
Assalaamu alaykum
caraboska
Allah help
You may need 2 lawyers, one based in India and one based in Saudi, and both should have international and Islamic family law expertise, as well as advising you whether you need other types of expertise, like citizenship and immigration expertise specifically regarding Saudi.
Hopefully someone here has a suggestion, or the law society in India would.
Allah help – my advice may be a little contradictory to what you have been advised by others but I would caution you before taking that leap and contacting a lawyer. Get to know your father first, find out what he is like as a person, what he has in mind, gather your information and based on what you know, regroup and make your list on what you do know; have yet to know; and based on what you know, what path do you seem to be leaning towards (ie, go to Saudi Arabia, stay in India, wait and get to know father better either India or 3rd country) before contacting a lawyer. I fear once a lawyer is involved this situation will quickly become complex, expensive and out-of-control. And quite frankly, -if- you choose to go the route of an attorney then you need to speak with a representative who not only knows Shariah (Islamic) law but has offices and ability to practice in both India and Saudi. I know of way too many incidences where individuals for whatever reasons to have sought or obtained legal counsel outside of Saudi Arabia to only find that whatever decision or agreement was made did not stand up in Saudi.
And you again mentioned your mom…does she want to relocate to Saudi Arabia? I know most Indian families are usually large, extended and very close. She is willing and ready to give up her familiar home and family to accompany you? The two of you have sat down and talked about this in detail?
Best Regards,
Bedu
Allah help–
I should have been clearer that I favour the same level of caution as American Bedu, who knows both countries and cultures.
My advice about the lawyer was only intended to caution you that you must select one or ones with competencies in both countries, and knowledge of all the relevent branches of law (including Sharia law) or the ability to refer you appropriately–otherwise you may find yourself suffering from highly paid bad legal advice with no validity in one or the other country.
Both you and your father are probably very emotional about your discovery of each other, and hoping to make a relationship, but this is more likely to unfold in a positive manner if you take things slowly, calmly, and safely. Your mother’s wishes must be voiced by her and respected, as I am sure you would wish.
Also, do not underestimate the impact of your father’s Saudi family, all of it–wife, children, siblings, cousins, aunts and uncles–on any relationship you may have with him, even if it doesn’t seem as important now.
All the best
Chiara
Allah help,
Yes, American Bedu is right. The lawyer should be in the picture only after you are REALLY sure, and only if everything else checks out – your relationship with Dad, your mom’s willingness to go.
And whatever you do, DON’T tell your dad you are thinking of contacting a lawyer for advice. Then the situation would really get out of control.
I would counsel you to play your cards very close to your chest for the moment – not revealing to your father what steps you are thinking of taking until you are ready to take action (or perhaps even waiting to tell him until after you have already taken action).
It sounds like your dad would like you to move to Saudi – the sooner the better. Even in a few weeks’ time. But to do it really right – dotting all the I’s and crossing all the T’s, which as we have said before is *really* necessary – it sounds like you need to be thinking in terms of this process of making your decision taking perhaps even several years.
In other words, the whole matter is a great exercise in patience for you – patience in not hurrying to take any steps, and patience with your father who may want you to hurry. May Allah provide you with all the patience you need and even more than you need. May He grant you peace of mind to do the right thing at the right time and only at the right time.
i think ur both right lawyer is very expenive and today i told my father give me sometime to learn this and i dont wanna go saudi now and my father have lawyer allready he talk in saudi with one lawyer and he told no need for lawyer he only want my birth cert and his married and divorce cert i did right or rong i told him i want sometime like 6months he said ook and he is going back to saudi soon
Allah Helps – it sounds like your Dad is taking a responsible approach on that learning a son he wants to ensure that you are recognized which also gives you specific rights pertaining to inheritance, education, health care, etc.
Wish you all the best,
Bedu
Allah helps–Thanks for the update. Both you and your father seem to be behaving responsibly and thoughtfully. I hope this works out well for all of you.
Allah help,
There isn’t really time anymore to consider the question of whether you did the right thing by telling your dad you are thinking about geting legal counsel. What’s done is done, now you have to simply factor in that your dad knows this as you make your decisions.
The thing about the lawyer is that if you are going alone, he may even be right that you wouldn’t need one, because your rights are clear-cut.
The problem is if you want to bring your mother. This is very complicated and *definitely* will require at least one, and as Chiara has mentioned, possibly as many as three lawyers to get all of the expertise you need – because one person may not have it all.
And again, it may take considerably longer than 6 months to even find out whether appropriate arrangements *can* be made for your mother – much less actually make those arrangements if it turns out they can be made. Which you do not even know yet.
Aha ur right he is helping us for living now and he told me he will send some money to me every month its really sucks i mean not this i mean that days i dint complite my studies becouse of money but i learn life i know its hard to learn becouse we never know what is next but Allah allways help me i really thanks full to allah about this life and about my mother she dint marry again becouse of me and now its my turn for take care of her and i wanna give her everything whatever she need eben if my life i dont care i know everyone love our family and i pray for u all allah allways give u what u need i know my english is bad but its ok i will learn english now my father told me he will send me money for study if i wanna study he will happy but i dont know why he want me to visit saudi for 15days and see his family i told him i will come for rest of my life after 6months but he want me to visit saudi after 1month and see his home and see my orignal country i really love to live in saudi but i am scarey about my mother thats all i really dont know why he dont want my mother is he scared with his family there about my mother he told me i give her divorce thats all and after divorce my culture dont allow me to face her and live with her i told him dont live with her but allow her to live in saudi and he said saudi govt really dont accept her and they never give her saudi citizenship so told him if they dont give her saudi citizenship then its not matter she will live with me with any visa that u can arange so he told me i will see and i know that if he say i will see he never do that thats way i deside to do something that help muy mother to live with me in saudi and thats way i said ok him to visit saudi for 15days lets see but i am really worried about arabic i dont know very well arabic i know ill but let see what u think is i did right with !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Allah helps: If I understand correctly you have decided to go and visit Saudi in one month for 15 days?
How well does your father speak English? Yes, language could be a problem depending on where you are going. What city/town does your father live in?
If you are traveling to Saudi on an Indian passport, you might want to register with the Indian embassy in Riyadh.
What I wonder is if you do obtain the Saudi citizenship and you are of legal age, how soon then could you sponsor your mom? But again, make sure of what your mom wants in this regards. It honestly does not sound like there are opportunities for her to have a fulfilling life in Saudi. And your Dad sounds traditional in that since they are divorced, he should not be with her as they are no longer related in spite of having had a child together.
My advice is do not engage lawyers right away but take things slow and easy. Good luck.
Allah helps
It seems to me a good thing that you spend 15 days in Saudi meeting your father, and his family, and getting to see his home in Saudi. This is a nice step by step way to do things, before you decide that in 6 months you will live there permanently. Also, you can imagine that for your father’s family learning he had a wife, a divorce, and a child, must be a shock. As wonderful as I’m sure your mother is, it would be easiest for them to meet you first, and then later, perhaps, meet your mother. It is usually easier to accept children (after all blood relatives) than ex-wives.
Is your mother also Muslim? I only ask because that might make it somewhat easier for her in Saudi. Is she of working age or retirement age? Again that would make a difference, it would seem to me, in her possibilities for accompanying you, and making a fulfilling, meaningful life in Saudi.
Very often in immigrations, if you decide to immigrate, the man goes on ahead, settles in and sends for the family (in this case your mother). However the time apart can be long and difficult. You can minimize this by learning as much as possible before being separated from your mother (if necessary), and later engaging legal help as necessary.
Language skills, both Arabic and English, sound like a priority for you, (and for your mother). Registering with one’s embassy when travelling abroad is usually wise.
yes my mother is muslim and she is 46years old and yah i really need to learn arabic its not hard for us and yes ur right i need to see his home and maybe his family and i really wanna know how they act with me step mother step brothers aww its like step life lol
Allah helps
Thanks for answering my questions. Indeed, it seems you should step gently into this step-life!
Since you mother is Muslim, I hope any future transition is easier for her, and since she is so young, I would recommend she also learn English and Arabic if she intends to live in Saudi if you do immigrate, whether she ultimately works there or not.
American Bedu’s questions about your common language with your father, and where in Saudi he lives are important, since as she knows better than I Saudi has distinct regional differences.
Let us all know, and good luck!
thanks u know i feel good when i see ur comments thanks again
hey everyone is there anyone who can help me my story is same like here some storys my father is saudi but he dont allow us to live in saudi he have 2wife more in saudi and more kids i dont know how much but i want to know and he dint come here in india to meet my mother and my brothers like 12years i have 3brothers one is 17 another is 15 and one is 13 we dont have anything to contact him i am 19years old and i work and study but really its hard for me to take care of them and thats way i want to call him and talk with him but saudi embassy i dont have money to go and meet them and i dont have any id proof of my father i dont have his address i only have his number is that work and i am shy to call him now becouse when i tell him this is his son from india he hang up phone if i complane about him to saudi embassy they help me i talk with lawyer but they ask alot of money and taht much money i really dont have is there anyone tell me what i do with this thanks
@Every Success: Do you have a birth certificate on which he is listed
as the father? Otherwise it can be more problematic and may require
intervention with a lawyer and the Saudi embassy and perhaps even
taking a DNA test if your father denies parenthood.
yes i do have birth certificates but i dont have my fathers id frof and anything even i dont have his marriege certificate my father he take that cert,,,,,,, from my mother and he told her he want that certifacate for some resion i dont know why he did that i only have his phone number thats all i have and i have some pics of him ith my mother is this work
Every Success–American Bedu is best able to advise about the Saudi situation, but generally it seems your father took the marriage certificate for just this reason–to prevent claims by your mother or yourselves. If you have his phone number, his work address can be traced.
If necessary, and a lawyer who knows Saudi law, confirms the possibility, you could legally force DNA tests to be done on your father, yourself and your siblings, and if Saudi law provides for this, force support payments, or back payments. In most countries this obligatory financial support ends when the children reach the age of majority, eg. 18, 19, 21. Lawyers are costly and the legal route is usually difficult, but it may be necessary.
The information you do have, including the pictures, is a start, and you should be compiling it in a written record to document your case even before you involve a lawyer.
While I don’t necessarily recommend it, some men are afraid of exposure at their workplace, and so will comply, rather than face their boss being involved, or finding out. However, your father’s position in Saudi may be such that he is unfazed, or even just angered by this.
@Success — your situation does sound more complex given the actions
of your father. My advice is to ask a lawyer who is not only familiar
with sharia’h law but can represent interests in both India and Saudi.
dna test i think he will not agree i was try to conact saudi embassy but they dont here my mother relatives they told me to call him again again and again and i did call him but he dont talk he just hang up phone he know good english but he dont fear allah i think i am poor i dont have money to call him again and again i talk with one saudi guy and he told me with out my father id proof i cant do anything and no one belive that he is my father even i show them my certificates and pics i only think only number will help and i give my number to my friend and i told him to call him he work in saudi but my friend he afraid to call him if he will angry and i dont know why i want to go saudi embassy and complain about him but i hear they dont allow me to talk them is that right
so u peoples dont wanna help me thanks
Look, it’s not that we don’t want to. I personally don’t have the expertise to do so. But I think Chiara has given you good advice. You probably do need legal help to go any further.
Every Success,
I would think you need to rethink why you’d want to live in Saudi in the first place. If you dont speak Arabic well you will get no job and life will be very hard.
Never mind the fact what trouble the Saudi father could make for you there.
Sometimes it is best to say “Alahamdullah” because where you are might, in all honesty, be better than moving to Saudi. It isnt the land of riches for those who dont speak Arabic, those without an education and those who dont have a Saudi passport.
Your mother, under any circumstances, wouldnt be allowed in Saudi until you got a citizenship and that seems highly unlikely at the moment.
speak Arabic, those without an education and those who dont have a Saudi passport i know that but i know arabic i am muslim i read quran and its not hard for me to talk becouse i read arabic and i am i am 19year old i am in final year degree and really its sucks for me to live in india i am saudi why shold i live here and why i care my father what he want i want to back my own country i know its very hard but i will fight i will fight with anything trust me if i dint try and if i dint face this no one can do this and i know its hard to live there but it will easy if i get saudi passport and i desirve for saudi passport even if my father dont want that its not my fault that is his fault and i want he to face me and come with me saudi embassy i dont care if we dont see each others anymore if he dont care my fmly why should i care him u dont know how we live but allhumdullah now we are better and i want now i am big now and i wanna show him this is not game this is life and marraige is a gift from Allah dont play this and inshallah he will remember everything what he did i just one one strong road and that road go to my aim please u peoples pray for my family thanks if anyone know something that helps me please inform me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks
@Every Success,
So you were raised in Saudi? If so shouldnt you be able to prove everything yourself? If you lived there you’d already have a passport the only issue would be your mother.
Do you have a birth certificate listing your father on it? A copy of his passport?
It almost seems as if a lot of your anger is based around your father. Leave it to God to sort out.
If you were not born and raised in Saudi and have no proof of your birth to a Saudi citizen I think your chances of going back to live in Saudi are slim. There is nothing to tie you to him and no Saudi court is going to order a DNA test.
Every Success,
I recall reading recently that until you are 21, if you are in Saudi, you have to have your father’s permission to travel (e.g. to visit mom). You will not be independent until then. I think it would be a good idea for you to wait until that time, so that your father will not cause trouble for you if you do succeed in going there.
Every Success
Perhaps if you answer some basic questions someone here will have some more helpful suggestions, although I am sure we all wish the best for you and your family.
1) Where did your parents meet, marry (where is the marriage certificate from), and live? Was their marriage recognized by the Saudi government? Your mother is Indian, correct? and Muslim, correct? of not?
2) Where were you born and raised? If you changed countries, at what age?
3) You are in the final year of high school? or college? or a university program? What is your degree in?
4) Are there any associations, groups of people like yourself (Saudi father, in India), including through Muslim organizations that can help you, give advice or provide information? What things have you already tried?
5) Is there a way to communicate to your father that you do not want to interfere with his new family, only to provide better for your mother and siblings by seeking work opportunities in Saudi, and by having him provide financial support for you or at least your siblings (he will not want to do this, obviously, and his second wife and their children will definitely not want him to do this)?
If he is more confident you won’t interfere (except financially) with his new life he might be more willing to negotiate the rest (Saudi citizenship, passport, finances) with you. For example could you send him a letter about this to his work address?
6) Have you tried, using the telephone number you have, to do an internet search including a reverse lookup (you give the number it gives the address) of the Saudi business directory? Do you have access to a library with a librarian who could help you with this project of finding out the workplace and address?
7) I understood that you have a birth certificate but your father’s name isn’t on it, is that correct?
8) Are you clear within your own mind that you will be able to leave your father to his new family if that is what he wishes? Do your mother and siblings share your feelings and plans?
This is obvious a very unhappy situation emotionally and materially. I hope your answers to these questions (especially if you number your answers as the questions are here) will make y our concerns and information clearer to those here who might then have more helpful ideas.
Every Success
Sorry, that mysteriously appearing face was supposed to be a #8
@Every Success – it is not an issue of not wanting to help you but
your situation is much more complex. What kind of help are you
expecting?
I believe your options are:
-engaging an attorney (who is recognized and able to practice in both KSA/India.
-informing the Saudi embassy of your situation.
-going to the media (contact Arab News perhaps?)
But before going forward on any of those options, be clear of what you
really want; what are the pros and cons of each action; and have a
back-up plan as well.
Every Success
I agree with American Bedu.
Based on my experience elsewhere, the degree of difficulty (in terms of a resolution) and backlash of the 3 options she suggests would be in increasing order (from least to most): Embassy, Lawyer, Press.
Her last piece of advice is particularly important, and I think all of us who have responded to you have been suggesting to you in various ways that you do this as part of your preparation.
Also, based on previous discussions on the blog, Caraboska is correct that if you are a minor while in Saudi your father would make decisions for you.
Finally, a lawyer with relevent expertise could best advise you about Saudi law and dna testing (and whether your father would be able to get around it).
i born and raised in india only and yes i have birth certificate and my father name on my all certificates lawyer press embassy what are u talking and i think firts i wanna face embassy with press or lawyer and and i am trying to go saudi and meet him with umrah visa he live in riyath thas all i know and number if i go saudi and search his home by number and if he dont want to meet me then what i do this is my qustion !!!!!!!!!!!!!! is there any help for me i have passport and its said he is my father but really i dont know his full name but my mother told me that is right i dont have any proof my mother she never thought he will do like this with us tell me how can i search his home address
American Bedu, How about a Saudi married to a Persian?
Meow ;-P
Every Success,
As far as I know an Umrah visa only gives you the legal right to visit the areas that form part of the Umrah. So Makkah, Medina, and…. someone help me here please? At any rate, definitely not Riyadh. It’s hundreds of kilometers away. If you were caught outside of the Umrah area, you would be deported.
Another thing: given your youthful age, it is more than possible you would have to show evidence of your father’s permission to get the Umrah visa in the first place.
Bottom line: There’s got to be a better way than an Umrah visa to accomplish what you are trying to accomplish.
@Every – when you say you have his number, you mean phone number? If
it starts out 555 or 556 then it is likely a mobile number and not a
landline. I hate to say this but many homes in Riyadh do not have
house numbers let alone depending what neighborhood, if the street
will even have a street sign let alone name.
Also you should know that one coming in to KSA on an umrah visa can
have restrictions on freedom of travel in the Kingdom. I’m not saying
folks do not use the umrah visa to get into the Kingdom; it happens
all the time.
That is good that is name is on your birth certificate and documents.
That’s in your favor.
email me privately.
Regards,
American Bedu
Hi Gloria,
Actually there is a fairly large Saudi-Persian community in Riyadh
with couples as such. And the children (Saudi-Persian) are gorgeous!
loool…I like that a lot. Thanks for letting me know
thanks and Umrah visa only gives you the legal right to visit the areas that form part of the Umrah. So Makkah, Medina, and…. someone help me here please? what are u talking ok i will email u
Well, the Umrah ritual, or whatever it is called, involves visiting certain specific locations and participating in specific activities while at these locations. And it is my understanding that the Umrah visa only entitles you to visit those specific locations in Saudi Arabia, including of course landing in the nearest airport and taking land transportation to get there. As far as I know, it does not entitle you to visit other locations in Saudi Arabia, or to stay for longer than it takes to complete the Umrah.
This seems to be a good page which discusses the Umrah procedure and the locations for the activities:
http://www.hajjumrahguide.com/hajj_stepbystep.html
Usually people doing Ummrah fly into Jeddah. They are allowed to visit various religious and historical sites in the Hijaz, but in no way are allowed to go to places up north like Riyadh, Qassim and the like.
The long and short of it is that if the Saudi father refuses to recognise the child, or admit that he was married to the mother, then there is probably very little chance that any children would be able to gain citizenship of even residence.
Even if they were lucky, I think they’d find Saudi not what they thought and not enjoy being there, especially with no family there to help.
Many Muslims who have never been to the Middle East view Saudi as some sort of paradise.
The fact is that it is not that great for non Arab Muslims, even many Arab Muslims.
Every Success–
I’m glad your further information and clarifying your goals and type of help asked for has given you some more answers. Based on my limited knowledge, the best news is that your father at one point recognized you legally, and you have legal proof (on your birth certificate and passport). This would. at least for other countries, carry weight with the Embassy and officials.
With land telephone numbers, they can be used in other countries at least to find individual’s addresses unless that person has blocked or hidden the information some way. They can also be used to find businesses in Saudi, for eg.:
http://www.yellowpages.stc.com.sa/
The telephone number, if a landline would help you know the city (if you don’t know this, or aren’t sure) eg.:
http://www.yellowpages.stc.com.sa/
However, American Bedu knows better about Saudi specifically, so best to take her up on her offer to email her privately!
Gloria–Carmen Dufour (Persian) + Yeslam bin Laden (1/2 brother of THAT bin Laden) = 3 daughters including the (in)famous Wafa Dufour/bin Laden (her name changes depending on what she is using it for)
LOOOOOOL@Chiara: I had no idea! I will google everything on them & get a little education.
Gloria– Carmen bin Ladin (sic)’s book “Inside the Kingdom: My Life in Saudi Arabia” is worth the read for her description of the gradually increasing conservatism in Saudi post-1979 (the siege of the Grand Mosque), and life with the Bin Ladins though it is biased by being part of her campaign during her “nasty divorce”.
Do read the GQ article with then model Wafa Dufour bin Ladin. Warning: fitnah, haram photos!!!
hello my name is sameer i am from saudi my father is indian and mother is saudi i born in saudi and i race here only i am 26years old guy and i apply for saudi citizenship 3times but they dont give me becouse my father is not saudi my mother she never been to india becouse she scary about her citizenship and now my father is not working here and he dont have visa i mean job visa but they allow him to live without visa why saudi like this !!!!!!
i think here also peoples help only saudi guys
WhO IaM–Hi Sameer. Just to reassure you, here people help Saudi and non-Saudi guys (and girls). My non-expert knowledge, based on this question being asked a number of times, is that Saudi citizenship is granted through the father, and becomes more difficult, as you have found out, with a Saudi mother and non-Saudi father.
You are probably aware of the official rules (#8 applies to your situation) but here is the link.
http://www.moi.gov.sa/wps/wcm/connect/013736004d4dabd78143bd065d67d3ac/EN_saudi_nationality_system.pdf?MOD=AJPERES...
Hopefully someone more expert will answer as well. All the best
Sameer,
It’s that male headship thing. That’s why only men can pass on their citizenship. Everything I’ve ever read on the subject suggests that it will take major changes in the entire society before the law can change. I think probably everyone on this list wishes they could help you, but there is probably nothing that can be done right now, except to work for change in society. Which is also difficult.
God bless you
caraboska
Chiara,
I keep getting an ‘Error 500′ message when I click that link you posted. ???
WhO IaM/ Sameer
This link works (just tested):
http://www.moi.gov.sa/wps/wcm/connect/013736004d4dabd78143bd065d67d3ac/EN_saudi_nationality_system.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=013736004d4dabd78143bd065d67d3ac
An interesting article in the Saudi Gazette on relevent issues.
http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentID=2009041435035
Thanks Caraboska.
Links awaiting moderation.
Found it. Here’s the relevant paragraph. It’s not as bad as I thought:
8- Individuals born inside the Kingdom from Non-Saudi father and Saudi mother may be granted Saudi
Citizenship by the decision of The Minister of Interior in case of the following conditions:
a- Having a permanent Resident Permit (Iqama) when he reaches the legal age.
b- Having good behaviour, and never sentenced to criminal judgment or imprisonment for more than six
months.
c- Being fluent in Arabic.
d- Applying for the citizenship after one year of reaching the legal age.
To find the entire document, go to http://www.moi.gov.sa, find the link ‘FAQs’ in the menu on the left side of the screen. When that screen comes up, look on the right side of the screen and find the link ‘Saudi Citizenship System’. That’s what you are looking for.
i think here i can get some help my name is khalid faisal salem al yahya i am 23years old i am indian citizen now but my father was saudi he dead after married like after 3years and he was 64years old man and my mother she dint inform saudi embassy about her married and about me she have everything i mean all documents but she scary about the culture and she dont want to lost me she know that if she show all documents then they only allow me to get saudi citizenship not for her becouse that time she was only 21years old and she did another married with indian guy she have more kids and she is happy with her another married but what about me i know this is destiny but i am really thanks full to my mother becouse she take care me but i dont know why now she want me to apply for saudi citizenship she told me my father did only one married and that marrired with her he has no another wifey and kids he was dead by accedent and his brother was inform her about my father he is not more but still i dint call saudi embassy and idint meet them i want but i wanna do this with strong pappers and i feel like it will problem becouse of my mother so is there any one who can help me about this
i mean he was 34years old
my HEart only/ Khalid Faisal
If I could summarize what I understood from your comment and please correct me if I am wrong:
Your Indian mother and Saudi father married, but after you were born, and after about 3 years of marriage, your father died in an accident at age 34. His brother informed your mother of this. Your father had no other wives or children. Your mother has documents for you but did not register her marriage at the Saudi Embassy. Being only 21 years old, she remarried happily and has had more children.
Although at the time your mother didn’t want to lose you to Saudi Arabia, she now wishes for you to get Saudi citizenship. You would like Saudi citizenship but you have not yet contacted the Saudi embassy as you would like to do so with strong documentation.
Based on other discussions here, as a 23 year old you have reached the age of majority, meaning you are independent in the Saudi view. If your birth certificate has your father’s name on it, ie if he recognized you legally as his child, this is a big advantage.
The link above is relevent and if you have clear legal proof that your father is Saudi #7 would apply to you.
“7- Individuals born inside or outside the Kingdom from a Saudi father, or Saudi mother and unknown
father, or born inside the Kingdom from unknown parents (foundling) are considered Saudis. The foundling inside the Kingdom is considered born in it unless the opposite is proven.”
You probably should contact the embassy with your question and documents. Other countries’ embassies give people in this position a list of documents to bring in, and then evaluate their application.
You don’t mention whether you have, would want to, or know how to contact your Saudi uncle (or other Saudi family) who might be able to help you.
American Bedu is the expert here, but this is what I have understood so thought it might be a start for you until others chime in.
All the best
I apologize for not noting the comment/query sooner! Chiara, you are
spot on although I must point out it is NOT up to (or allowed really)
for the foreign woman to register the marriage (or birth). That is up
to the Saudi husband. A good point is raised on having contact with
the Uncle and perhaps other family members. And maybe delicate, but
it should be noted that as a child of a Saudi, he would also be
entitled to inheritance as according to Islam and Shar’iah law.
American Bedu–thanks. I either misread “my HEart only/ Khalid Faisal’s” comment or he misunderstood. In any case, good to know that registering marriages and births is definitely a (Saudi) man’s job!
yes my father he was dead by accident and yes his brother he was informed her and yes she dont want to lose me thats way she dint informed and she think that there is no one to take care me my father brother he is nice with me i was talk with his family but they dont have to to come with me and face saudi embassy they are nice if we talk but they are selfish i think i ned to face embassy self onlyu and yes i have birth certificate has my father’s name is this big advantage for me show meroad please
my HEart only–
Based on the comments above, it seems your next step is to go to the Saudi embassy with your documents, and ask them the next steps to complete your file for a request for citizenship.
In the case of other countries, once you give them all the required documents as requested, the citizenship is granted. Since you have a Saudi father, and legal documented proof of this, it should be relatively straightforward for you to get Saudi citizenship. Your ability AFTER that to sponsor others is a separate question.
It is possible that your father’s family believes your citizenship request is straightforward and needs no help from them. It is also possible that as nice as they are, they are concerned about inheritance etc should you become a Saudi citizen.
Hopefully someone Saudi based will add to this information for you.
yes they are nice becouse they send me my fathers idcard and his passportcopy even dead certificate but i told them to come with me saudi embassy but they said ok but they dont come if go alone its good or if i go with my father”s brother its good ?
My HEart only–I am glad to hear that your father’s family is being so nice, and so helpful with documentation.
Perhaps they haven’t come to accompany you to the embassy because it is far for them (New Delhi?), or they have a problem to get a visa.
If I understand you correctly, you are wondering if it is okay for you to go to the Saudi Embassy yourself, or whether you need to go with your Saudi uncle, or even just if it would be better that you go with him.
My experience with different countries’ embassies (Italy, France, US, Morocco, Canada) has been that it is okay for the person to go alone, and the rest is just paper work.
I hope a Saudi reading this will give you further information about the Saudi Embassy in particular.
All children born from a Saudi father are viewed as Saudi children. However in the cases i like this i just want to know my grandfather was saudi but he come here in india and he live here and dead my father he also dont need to get saudi citizenship they both love india i dont know why but they do but i dont like to live in india i have indian citizenship and my fahter also have indian citizenship but my fahter’s father was saudi what i do now is this possible for me to get saudi citizenship i am in saudi now and here they dont help me for this American bedu u have any idea about this
@Saudi India – I’m sorry but I really do not have an answer for you on this one. I would not want to take a stab and just second-guess as that would not be right. This sounds like maybe you’d want an attorney to investigate for you?
Saudi India–the 2 links on May 9 11:54 might help you get started. It probably depends in part on what kind of papers you have to prove who your father was and whether he held Saudi Citizenship at the time of your birth. American Bedu’s idea of an attorney specialized in Indian-Saudi citizenship is an excellent one.
yah maybe i am rong but all storys here about saudi and all of they father’s is saudi thats way they get saudi citizendship but my father was saudi but he used indian citizenship and my grandfather he was saudi and he live in india All children born from a Saudi father are viewed as Saudi children. if u see that way then my fahter also saudi but he have indian citizenship and he dont want saudi but i want so please tell me Chiara and Amercan bedu is this work !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Saudi India–based on what I have read, neither Saudi nor India allows dual citizenship. So, based on my experience with other countries, the issue becomes, “What citizenship did your father hold at the time you were born?”. ie when you were born was your father a Saudi citizen or an Indian citizen, or in otherwords, “Were you born to a Saudi in India, or an Indian of Saudi origin?”.
If your father was already Indian then the Saudi citizenship is probably lost. As far as I know it cannot be conferred by your grandfather unless you are underage and were adopted by him (a difficult thing to convince the Saudis of perhaps).
2 articles of the laws of citizenship on the Saudi government site linked above are relevent to the question of what citizenship your father held at the time of your birth:
11- Saudis are not permitted to acquire any foreign citizenship without the permission of the Prime Minister. If a Saudi Citizen acquired a foreign Citizenship without this permission, he will be considered Saudi unless the Saudi Government dropped his Saudi Citizenship according to the term of Article (13).
13- Saudi Citizenship may be withdrawn by a Decree in case of the following:
a- If the Saudi Citizen obtained another citizenship and violated Article (11) of this system.
b- If the Saudi Citizen worked at the Armed Forces of any foreigner Government without obtaining the
permission of the Saudi Government.
c- If the Saudi Citizen worked for the benefit of a foreign Government during its wartime with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.
d- If the Saudi Citizen accepted working for a foreign Government or international Organisation, and
remain working for them despite the Saudi Government>s order for him to quit.
In all cases mentioned in Paragraphs (a, b, c, d) of this Article, the Saudi Citizen must be warned 3 months in advance before withdrawing his Citizenship. According to this system, clearance of his possessions must take place in accordance with the real estate possession system, and he may be deprived of residing in the Saudi Arabian lands.
In other words, you need to find out from your father if he had unusual permission to hold dual citizenship (unlikely).
You need to check your own situation for sure with the Saudi embassy or an immigration lawyer with knowledge of these types of citizenship questions related directly to Saudi and India.
Good luck!
PS It is possible, again based on my knowledge of other countries, that since your father was born in India of a Saudi father you might be able to get Saudi citizenship, but this is a detail that may work for other countries but not Saudi, so you have to check with the Saudi Embassy or a Saudi-India citizenship lawyer.
@Saudi india – I truly do not know how the law works in this case. If your father had an Indian passport, gave up his Saudi passport and your mother is Indian, then it would sound to me like you are an Indian national. But again, I stress, I do not know how the law looks on these factors.
@Chiara – With all due respect I know you are trying to be helpful and quoting information published probably by concerned Ministries on the laws, but not all is necessary as it is published. I know many many Saudis who have multiple passports (ie, dual citizenship) even though according to the Ministry it is prohibited.
Saudi-Indi needs to see a lawyer who can help work through the confusing system with his unique circumstances.
American Bedu–I only quoted it as he seemed not to have picked it out of the link referenced. I appreciate it made for a long comment, for which I apologize. In retrospect referring to Articles 11 and 13 would have been more succinct. The text does make clear though that dual citizenship is possible under specific circumstances. I agree that he needs to talk with the embassy and a lawyer as I also pointed out more than once. My apologies again, that the comment was long because of quoted text.
yes my father has indian passport and me also but only my grandfather has saudi passport and i have his passport Americanbedu will u tell me where is saudi embassy in saudi or consulate in saudi i will meet them as person but i dont know they allow me to talk with them or not but i will try
@Saudi India – Within Saudi Arabia you would need to go to the Ministry of Interior and/or Ministry of Foreign Affairs. If you are in Saudi already, ask a Saudi you know to perhaps direct you or at least get you started in the right direction.
American bedu ur famous now LOL I like ur page and u help these peoples but not like they need
help this guy if u can http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentID=200805186759
and i think saudi embassy in delhi they are like unhelping guys i also know some storys but here i see all storys is succecess and i will pray allah help all of them who need help and be fact my qustion is if saudi ebassy in delhi they dont help then who will help and what is step
@Well,
I tried to look at the link you sent but it did not take me to an article?
American Bedu–the link worked for me. The title is
“In search of father for 35 years”.
Googling– Zubair + “Omani stepsister, Zahra” + Indian + Saudi + Muscat + embassy pulls it up as the first item.
u can search details in google american Bedu u dint reply me i ask u if saudi embassy in delhi they dont accept ur papers and they dont reply what can do ? and where is saudi embassy who is helpfull i think saudi embassy in delhi is not help full i hear alot from peoples
i think indian is a driver and soon he will get deported lol.
low class trash,
as for other indian ,whoz mom got used for 45 days,dear u batter go shoot your mother s fatehr who sell his daughter to a saudi man ,to bag ,why dont they use condoms lol?
@well – anyone who approaches an embassy for assistance or queries should make sure to have all documentation, questions written down and a lot of patience. If you or anyone feels like they do not get satisfaction from the embassy then options are to consult with a lawyer (if you feel it is necessary). The embassy has procedures in place. You can also write an open letter to the local press if you feel like the embassy is not responding sufficiently.
Local Press what they do ? American bedu if u dont know then dont give ideas blink I think Chiara know better then u And Fawad ur such a jerk respect poor peoples maybe they think this is best for her thats way they they marry who know what u think bedu About this
Well–American Bedu knows better than I about Saudi Arabia, although I have some experience with other similar situations. Usually going to the local press is a last resort, but sometimes helps to get some other people’s advice or some attention for your plight. Some Canadian papers have a column for immigration questions, but I have never seen such columns in other papers. I agree that Fawad’s comment was unfortunate. I hope you achieve your goal. Aside from advice, few people short of the embassy staff can do much more. All the best.
Chiara LOL i think its funny hey i am saudi and my mother is indian oh i mean she is saudi now but her blood is indian and in my father family only one women from another country i am 29years old and trying to marry with one indian girl but my parents dont want my mother is indian and she dont want me to marry with indian girl i dont know why
@Well – it sounds like your mother views you as more Saudi than Indian perhaps….or as a mom is wishing for a different kind of life for you than what she or perhaps her family had.
Maybe but my father give her everything she need and more then of her dreams and every one care her alot and she is not indian now like that i want my wife but i dont know why she is not agree and i will not marry with out my mother permission mother is only name but for son mother is a resion of life i am saudi and i proud to be what i am i like india alot and indians is a good i think but some are not but for some how can i tell indians bad all fingers is not same hey u see what i mean lol i mean her in india and fall in love hey hey love is not but not good last year i promise her i will come india with my family and talk with her parents but see i am lost i talk with my mom alottttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt about her but her answer is no no no i can change anything that was i thought but i am rong i dint change my mom and my father omg when i tell him please talk with my mom about this he dont they act like she is not good when they dint see her my mother she dont wanna go india she been india like 12years before why indians like this LOL
@well – what I would suggest is that you continue to talk to your mother. Tell her how much you love her and respect her but also would like an opportunity for your own happiness – with her blessing. Try to find out from her what her exact objections are so you can address them and deflect them one by one.
Well–LOL! You obviously know a great deal about Saudi! As far as friendlier embassies go, since there is only one Saudi Embassy in India and no consulates, you are rather stuck with that one unless your beloved has permanent residency or citizenship of another country (based on experience with other non-Saudi situations).
It is hard to guess what is in your parents’ minds but some hypotheses based on personal and professional experience follow. Maybe your mother:
fears that Saudi society would treat you, an Indian bride, and your future children less well than if you married a Saudi;
suspects your beloved or her family or both of having ulterior motives;
has already picked out someone she prefers for you, and would still like that match to happen;
thinks no woman will ever be good enough for you (all mothers think that LOL).
Is it possible that your mother doesn’t want to go to India for other reasons–bad memories, fear of flying, physical illness (all just guesses of course)?
American Bedu gave you good advice. I would only add that perhaps, in addition to your father, other family members or trusted friends might help you and your mother come to a happier understanding about this.
Good luck!
LOL i think your right maybe my mother dint go india bad memories and she dont fear of flying ever month she go dubai to meet her dauther i think memories and this is not movie its real and i think if i give 100% then also she will not forget her bad memories she is from poor family but not now we help them alot but i dont know why she dont want indian girl and when i ask my mom about her her reply is no no no i am tired of no and i cant take another step see this is imoshinal blackmail and its power full LOL her brother he is also against of my love last year he give warning dont try to meet my sister i tell him ok brother in law LOL i can fight with them but how can i dint change my mom mind i am crazy about her and this crazy guy need her but i dont know howmuch time my mom take to tell yessssssssssssss but i am just worried about her if her family force her and married her with another guy she will marry who know her family also do force her and imoshinal blackmail i can only imagine thats all i am !!!
what u think i will success ?
@Well — I sure can’t see or predict the future. It does sound like you have an uphill road ahead with familial resistance from several fronts. I certainly wish you all the best.
Well—You seem to be answering some of your own questions while you clarify your situation here. From what you say, your mother has very real bad memories of living in India in a poor family. Perhaps having an Indian daughter-in-law would just be a constant reminder of India, and her problems there, or even the ongoing problems of the country. She may genuinely feel that she cannot function well with this type of ongoing reminder, or that you would eventually be burdened by an Indian wife’s family. It does become emotional blackmail, whether she intends it as such or not. And, yes emotional blackmail is very powerful, especially from a beloved mother; and no, you cannot fully repair the hurts of her past or erase her memories.
Having objections from your beloved’s family is even more complicating, and must be emotionally trying for her. It is normally her task to persuade her family, although you can help her to do that. I would imagine it is most important for you to be clear that your beloved continues to want to marry you as much as you do her. Age may be an important factor here, as she may wish to marry and start a family, and neither of you know when your families will agree.
Definitely very challengin! Perhaps trying to have those in the families who are supportive (if there are any) talk to their respective family members who aren’t would be a next step for both of you. All the best!
Chiara thanks and u dont know my condition sometimes we have everything but dont have something little that i need and i really need her but not like my mother i need my mom alot she is my life and i cant force her alot i did force but i dont want more but i want to get marry with her i really dont know why she want me to get marry with a saudi girl yesterday i ask her why she told me she want me to get marry with saudi girl i tell her girl is girl saudi indian American its not matter but thing is love in my life i was never sad like i am now she told me at anyway she will not agree and only saudi girl if i love someone else how can i marry with another girl and this is not married its compromice and i dont wanna do that lovers do anything for love and i feel like i am not one of them but i wanna be one love is most importent part of life and howcan i takeoff her from my heart becouse of my mom i will agree if my mom meet her and she dont like her but she dont wanna see her i dont know why its hurt me alot she is my mom and she dont care my feelings she want me to get marry with only saudi girl why is that without any reason
@well – it sounds to me like your mom is looking at the perceptions and wanting you to “marry above.” You are half Saudi and by marrying a Saudi girl there is no perception of you having “married down.” I know it does not sound nice but I’d say your mother is very concerned of appearances and stigmas. She married a Saudi and wants you to continue the Saudi way. That’s my take. Unless your mom changes her mind or you choose to circumvent her wishes, it does not sound promising. Wish you the best.
Well–I’m sorry you are in such emotional pain. I understand that you would want to keep your relationship with your mother first, and it is good that you are so clear about this within yourself (and hopefully your beloved understands this too).
I have talked to more than one happily married person who still wishes his or her parents hadn’t rejected their first love, whether having met them or not, or liked them or not, but for whatever reason (often ethnicity, race, religion, social status).
Your mother may really feel so strongly against any Indian woman that she doesn’t even want to meet one. Or perhaps the two families could meet in a 3rd country, like Bahrain, so she wouldn’t have to visit India, and so you would feel that at least they had met, and you had tried your best (with the help of your beloved, and supportive family members).
I understood you to say that your mother will only agree to you marrying a Saudi girl, but that she doesn’t have one specific one in mind–is that correct?
If she does have one picked out for you, it would make things more difficult. As if they weren’t already!
At least you are slowing gaining more understanding of your mother’s and your own feelings. And your beloved, what does she suggest? Is she close in age to you (close enough to make mature decisions for herself)?
All the best!
American Bedu : You are half Saudi what mean i am fulllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll Saudi i wish i can get indian ciizenship also but its not possibel i love to live in india but with out money its like shit and indian governement they dont help like saudi and saudi governement is very help fulllllllllll and nice i see alot of poor peoples in india and i thanks Allah that My govt is not like this Hey hey hey i why i am on this forget it All i just Need Love Love Love And Love i read here alot of storys and i like to help peoples but i am not lucky like as u American Bedu u know if u help someone without any resion someone will help u its from god i swear and i belive that and help like this maybe they pray for ur health and god takecare u Sorry if i bored u but its fact
Hello American Bedu How Are u im from saudi and looking for saudi citizenship i try alot ut i dint get what i need my father is indian but mother is saudi when i apply for citizenship they reject i apply 9times why saUDI DOnT give me when i born here and my mother is saudi
@Inshallah – I am certainly not an expert on this subject so what I am offering here is ONLY my personal view. I am speculating that you have not obtained the citizenship because your father is not Saudi. I say that since I know that the Saudi government is quick to recognize children who have a Saudi father but one seldom hear’s about children from a Saudi mother and non-Saudi father.
Can or have any of the male Saudi relatives from your mother’s side of the family looked into this for you?
why should saudi”s do all fun
Hi My Self Rahman i am saudi blood but mother is hindi its mean i am half hindi and i am a married guy my wifey is from another state i cant tell but i dont know what my kids will be its all mix !!!!!!!!! and but they will be saudi i am saudi and who i am i know i live in usa texas dallas but i love my country saudi because i am saudi American Bedu i see ur all pages and they are so nice and i am really glad to see peoples like u who is helpful ok bye take care
hello American bedu im non saudi but want to be saudi is this possible for me i born in saudi and still a live here i am 30years old and i never been to my country and please tell me where is saudi embassy in saudi and do u know anyone who can help me i read ur whole page and i get some information from ur page but i want more well letme know if u can help me
non Saudi – what nationality are your parents?
indian
non saudi,
i have a good friend from saudi arabia who was born and raised in KSA, but both his parents are indian and he has indian passport, not KSA. BUT since he went to school there and spent his whole life there, he is able to apply for saudi citizenship if you can provide proof of your whole life being in saudi.
hope this helps
ma3salaameh
even if one has been born in the Kingdom, without having Saudi parents or very extenuating circumstances, it is quite difficult to obtain Saudi citizenship.
so what u talking about well will u tell me details
All children born from a Saudi father are viewed as Saudi children?if this is fact then why im not saudi?
im son of a saudi father and my mother is an indian.my mom is very poor and uneducated women and she is related to a poor family.my father has married her 21 years ago and at that time he was 51 years old and after that he came 2 to 3 times to india then he never came back to india and he knws that he had a child from indian wife.my mother tries a lot to be in contact with him but she failed many times.now after inquiring about his home address i came to know that he is died before 12 years ago.i belongs to a very poor family and i cant bare a advocate to fight in the embassy for a saudi natioinality.so please kindly give me any information or any details how to apply for the saudi nationality without any big problem.show me an easy way and simple way so that i can bare the expenses.as his son i have only marriage certificate,passport and xerox copy of ID card.please suggest me ur views on my problem so that i can apply as soon as possible for saudi nationality. thanking you mam
@Ehtesham – if you go back to the earlier comments on this topic you will find that a link had been posted within a comment with the procedure on applying for the Saudi Nationality.
All the best, Carol
My mum is Somali and my dads Saudi-aka Somalianarab
Saudsomal etc- i love both countries with all my heart though everyone considers me saudi because they count the dads side more
xx
naz
or it could also be called “Somalarabia.” (smile)
You’re right… only the Saudi father counts (in Saudi) if the mother is foreign. I think we all should be equally proud of the heritage given to us by both our mother and father.