Perspectives from a Saudi Man…
It is not easy as a woman to have an opportunity to speak candidly and openly with a Saudi man (within the Kingdom) let alone have his permission to share his views. Therefore I do wish to thank him for allowing me to interview him on a multitude of topics which I believe will be of interest to readers…
Let’s begin by telling a little bit about yourself…where were you born and what is your age? What kind of work are you doing now?
I was born in Al Farsha village; south of Riyadh in 1981, but my documented birth date is 31 August 1979. My family moved to Riyadh, where I studied until I finished high school in 1998. My mania about programming pushed me to establish a small company for computer networks with my brother, and beside this new business I decided to continue my study. I did my Bachelor in Computer Engineering and I graduated in 2004.
How do you like working in a multi-cultural environment? What have been the advantages as well as the disadvantages?
I always love to learn new things, and working in such an environment taught me and is still teaching me a lot; I interact daily with more than 7 different cultures, and every culture is rich by its habits and traditions. I see different ways of thinking, and I was able to benefit from these differences.
The only disadvantage was that I frequently needed to justify some Saudi habits and regulations and explain
Do you feel that the expats whom you encounter through your work are well-versed of the Kingdom and its culture?
The majority of them don’t know; they might know the policies or regulations, but this kind of knowledge does not represent the culture.
Do you have much interaction with expats outside of the work place? Please share some details such as what kinds of interaction or why you do not have interaction.
Yes I do. I work as an IT professional and this occupation presented me to many service providers in the field with whom I usually share work issues. This relationship developed over the years, and transformed into a friendship. Now they always ask for my help in anything related to the system here, the culture and customs, or the good places for shopping and touring.
As a Saudi man, how do you feel about the Saudi women in the workforce? Do you think it is better for them to pursue employment in a women-only or mixed environment and why?
I think it’s better for the woman to work in a women-only environment, if possible of course, whether she is Saudi or not! This is my opinion and the majority of Saudis, even the women themselves.
Moreover, we are not the only nation who believes in this, there are many of the Eastern nations do, even if they don’t practice, and there are practical environments running today in China, India, Japan and Korea.
What do you believe is the greatest misperception Westerners have of the Kingdom? And how can such misperceptions be corrected?
I believe that westerns have two great misperceptions about the kingdom.
First, Saudis are the tardiness and wealthy people before 9/11, and secondly Saudis are the world terrorist generator after 9/11.
And I would like to comment on this, we cannot judge the whole Germans as terrorists for what Hitler and his companion did!
We need significant effort to correct this misperception, and we need to talk to the westerners in their language which they understand and think, and this is the Saudi media duty to do so.
Have you had opportunities to travel outside of the Kingdom? If so, what has been your favorite place? And all factors being equal, if you could travel anywhere in the world right now, where would you choose to go and why?
I have traveled to many places, Arab and non-Arab countries, Muslim and non-Muslim countries, but my favorite place was Yemen!
Last year, I and my cousin changed our plan of the vacation just at the last minute, we decided to travel to Yemen by car instead of flying to Malaysia, and we did! We drove more than 1,600 km around the country; I learned many lessons which I’ll never forget!
About the second part of question, if I could travel in the world right now, I will visit Baghdad, the only place that one day – 9 centuries ago – assembled all of us (The Arabs) as the sciences candles.
But what about travel in the Kingdom…what are some of the best places to go in Riyadh? What are the must-see places within the Kingdom?
In Riyadh, the best place to visit is Riyadh J.
Riyadh word itself in the Arabic language is a plural for Rawdha, which is the beautiful green place (especially in the desert), where the birds usually gather around it because of the water availability. In the seasonal rains of Riyadh, many places in the desert outside of Riyadh convert into green and grassy areas, like Rawdhat Khraim, Rawdhat Tenhat. I mentioned this different place because I know that non-Saudis would like to visit someplace different, a place which they never see. http://www.odyani.com/vb/showthread.php?t=16747
The must-see places within Kingdom are:
<!–[if !supportLists]–>1. <!–[endif]–>In the eastern region, King Fahad Bridge in the way to Bahrain.
<!–[if !supportLists]–>2. <!–[endif]–>In the western region, Jeddah Fountain.
<!–[if !supportLists]–>3. <!–[endif]–>In the Southern region, Dhelá Aqaba, the bridges network that connect Saraat Mountains with Tehama.
<!–[if !supportLists]–>4. <!–[endif]–>In the North, Mdayen Saleh.
<!–[if !supportLists]–>5. <!–[endif]–>In Riyadh, King Abdulaziz Museum.
It’s a fact that my blog has viewers from all around the world. What message do you wish to share with them about Saudi Arabia and its people?
I would like to invite them to visit the kingdom, and to do a tour all over the country, see the habits, and watch the Saudi people life closely.
What would you like to know from Westerners? Here is your opportunity to also ask your own questions. I’m confident you’ll receive answers within comments from readers.
I have many concerns,
Why the westerners listen to non-Muslims about Islam religion, to non-Saudi about Saudi Arabia? Why do they ask Larry King or CNN about how does a Muslim woman feel! Instead of spending a minute to listen to a Saudi Muslim woman about how does she feel! And why I have never found a western media which was just and fair when talking about my religion and my country? And finally, why especially the Americans are media-driven people.
Naturally I have to ask, what are your views on women driving? Will they drive? Should they drive? Would you endorse your mom or sister or wife driving?
This question is like what are your views on men driving! I don’t see any difference!
Women drove since the first day cars entered Saudi Arabia. Just travel outside cities and you will see the countries’ women fueling their cars in the petrol stations and bringing their children from the schools. http://alaak.jeeran.com/MBARGA_car.gif
But when you come to this issue in the cities, the issue becomes complex! The government restricts women driving for some social reasons, raised by those who resisted one day the women would be educated in my country.
Anyhow, women will drive soon, and it’s a matter of time.
For my mom, I am asking her now, during this writing, and she told me she does not want to drive, because the car is dangerous, and before asking my mother, I have asked my two sisters. Aisha (22 years old) said that she does not want to drive, because she thinks that whenever she needs to go anywhere, Sami (My younger brother) will not refuse to take her there, and in the future, the task will be the husband’s.
Nora said she will like to think about driving, but after having public women driving schools, and after the car accidents rate becomes normal.
When I asked my wife, she answered why you are asking me this stupid question.
(Carol please don’t get mad on me, this is real answers)
How about covering…do you believe it is necessary for a muslim woman to cover her hair? What kind of message as a Saudi man, do you believe a woman is sending in the Kingdom when she chooses not to cover?
It is necessary for the Muslim woman to cover her hair, this is a direct instruction mentioned in the holy Quran that every Muslim woman knows.
By the way, I came to know that Christians and Jewish women also are required to do the same, but Islam is the only religion in which most of its people follow its directives, and one of these directives is to cover the women hair.
For the second part of the question, and according to the Saudi civil department, Muslims are 100% of the Saudi population, and whenever a Saudi woman choose not to cover, she is simply sending a message that she does not follow the Islamic instructions, and this is normal, followers of a specific religion do not represent the religion itself, but their religious personality, as the bad attitude and deeds of some Christians Cardinals do not represent the real religion of the Jesus peace be upon him.
As a Saudi man, what are your views on the men who have chosen to have more than one wife. And, how would you explain polygamy and its practice to a non-muslim?
First, I think that the word polygamy does not describe the real situation in Islam, what I know – this is according OXFORD dictionary definition and please correct me Carol if I am mistaken, that polygamy is the practice of having more than one wife for man, and more than one husband for women. In Islam, Muslim woman cannot have more than one husband a time.
Second, polygamy is an option, not a duty, and it has special circumstances and conditions where the man should fulfill, the Muslim man is expected to fulfill all his duties toward his first wife, offering her good living conditions, emotional and sexual satisfaction, and prior to him thinking of a second wife, he should be capable to satisfy all these needs for both the current and the wife to be.
Third, It’s true allowed in Islam for men to have more than one wife, but it is also the wife’s right to stipulate before she get married that the husband must not have another wife during her lifetime.
Fourth, having more than one wife has its functional advantages in some cases, and most obvious example of this occurs in times of war when there are inevitably large numbers of widows and girls whose fiancées and husbands have been killed in the fighting. One has only to recall the figures of the dead in the first and second world wars to be aware that literally millions of women and girls lost their husbands and fiancées and were left alone without any income or care or protection for themselves or their children.
Finally, in Islam the wife has the right to include monogamy as a condition in her marriage treaty, plus any other conditions related to place of living, quality of living …etc. as far as she does not ask for unlawful act, the husband once accepted her marriage shall abide by all the conditions, including monogamy, Muslim women know this very well.
What advise would you like to give to the expats who come to the Kingdom for work? How can they make the best of their time in the Kingdom? How can they get to know and become friends with other Saudis rather than only have them as a work colleague?
I advise every expat to buy a good quality umbrella, and whenever he finishes passport stamping, he needs to be so careful during riding the camel from the airport to the accommodation place, Finally believe me the best way to become friend with other Saudis, is to say Hello and share a Kabsa meal
And in closing, are there any other comments you’d like to add?
I would like to thank you for giving me the chance, and extend my thanking for brothers and sisters, who read this, and I invite them to comment and interact, I need to read their opinions.
Again, thank you very much for allowing a Saudi man’s perspective to be shared!
You’re most welcome.
Filed under: America, culture, gender, islam, politics, relationships, religion, Saudi Arabia, Saudi culture, Saudi customs, Saudi education, travel, Uncategorized, women driving
I thank you for this interview, Carol, and I thank the man who gave it. The questions were great– you didn’t avoid the tough ones, and I sense that the man answered openly and candidly.
Regarding the, “Americans are media-driven people, I want to say that I don’t understand it either, and I am American. I am irritated and distracted by the omnipresence of media. You can’t go anywhere here without being bombarded by radio, TV, or visual advertisements of all sorts. I recently went for a dental appointment and found a TV in every examing room. I told them to turn it off during my appointment.
Americans do tend to listen to non-Saudis about Saudi Arabia.. Could this be because the Western so-called “experts” are obiquitous these days? Could it be because of the difficulty in meeting Saudis, and the inability to travel to KSA for tourism?
[...] KSA: Perspectives from a Saudi ManLast year, I and my cousin changed our plan of the vacation just at the last minute, we decided to travel to Yemen by car instead of flying to Malaysia, and we did! We drove more than 1600 km around the country; I learned many lessons … [...]
I will pass that along Marahm although I know that he also is a reader of this blog.
As you know, I am also American and work in the media for Saudi television a well. I agree that the Americans are more media driven than others. Why do Americans listen more to non-Saudis? I believe it is an issue of trusting and relying more on “your own kind” and the belief (right or wrong) that Saudis will be more loyal to Saudi and Americans more loyal to America and therefore for an unbiased view, ask a fellow countryperson.
A small degree can also be attributed to the difficulty of meeting Saudis (particularly if outside of the Kingdom). The inability to travel to KSA for tourism however is changing. Groups are welcomed and I firsthand have witnessed evidence of groups coming to KSA for tourism.
I don’t know about Americans, apparently Saudis àlso think the rest of the world is America. (pfff)
very enlightening. I always think an outsider might be able to have important insights exactely because they are looking from another perspective. If they are honest and open minded.
I admit I do trust Bedu’s views very much.
As far as reporting on other countries goes, what I always enjoy most is other peoples views of my own country
I have been reading the thoughts of a few Arab women who write in English, and they do not give me the impression they are all very happy with not being able to drive, work, making decisions about their own lives etc. Nor do all the men like this situation.
Actually: I wasn’t very interested in driving or getting a drivers license until I actually had one.
And now I am dééply in love with my car.
So until anybody has had the actual experience of the freedom and possibilities driving a car represents, they cannot really evaluate the subject.
A couple of traffic-rules and having them enforced might be handy in KSA. But the dangerous traffic alone is no no excuse for not letting women drive: they are just as much exposed to those dangers when being driven as when driving themselves. I do understand it can be relaxing if you don’t have to engage the traffic yourself.
Statistic fact is: women in in the ”west” are far safer drivers then men, so if segregation and safety is such a big issue, one should forbid the male half of society to drive. Better for everybody.
*I would like to invite them to visit the kingdom, and to do a tour all over the country, see the habits, and watch the Saudi people life closely.*
Nice.
When can I come visit Bedu? (single, female, wicked)
And I would be deeply disappointed if there wasn’t a camel or horse waiting for me outside the airport
Kidding apart, this was a really interesting interview, thanks Bedu, and thanks véry much to the Saudi male for sharing his views with us.
I am now curious about the Jemen adventure! I love travel stories.
Aafke,
You have an open invitation to come and be our guest. Just let us know when! And the chances are good that between the airport and where I live you would certainly see a camel or two…and I can guarantee on showing you exquisite Arabian horses (I know that sweetened the pot!)
I watched an excellent documentary circa 4 weeks ago on Al Ekhbaria (affiliated with Saudi TV) on driving in the Kingdom. A sad fact is that every hour there is a traffic related fatality here. This certainly factors in on a decision of women driving. yes; women are exposed just as much whether in the back seat or behind the wheel but at the same time a woman behind the wheel (at least initially) is going to attract greater attention and scrutiny equalling more distraction and potential to cause accidents.
Glad you enjoyed this posting and I again am greatful for the chance to ask some candid questions and get answers.
Regards,
Carol
Good interview Carol. I think the gentleman did a good job in providing candid views from Saudi.
Aafke,
“Statistic fact is: women in in the ”west” are far safer drivers then men”
You know there is a reason for that safety record. They drive at 20 MPH in the passing lane and men get into accidents trying to swerve around them
I am still rooting for women driving in Saudi, even thought it may mean we will see pictures like this in Jeddah
http://www.thehumorarchives.com/attachment/255/nozzle.jpg
Now that I made a couple of gender biased jokes. I am going to hide for a week until you all stop being mad at me.
S in US — glad you enjoyed. I’ve been very fortunate in having individuals agree to candid interviews.
I enjoyed your jokes!
Hello, … nice interview Carol .. and thanks to Mr. Saudi also .. (i cudnt find his name/nick)
Your mom’s answer immediately brings me thoughts of my own mother. Its just a temperament related thing. Some women can be scared of driving. She’s even scared when i am driving
… or even my dad!
Living in Saudi didnt help obviously in gaining a driving experience for her, but when we went back to Indya for a certain period, many of her friends did drive, but she didnt .. i guess its a personal choice here.
Mr. Saudi wrote about driving restricted in cities. Well it is restricted everywhere basically coz of the law of the country. But I have seen women drive here.. down south.. in the villages.. similar to the pic that hes shown. Hard to believe huh? and trucks even!
Tourism is being boosted somewhat in the Kingdom. I read on arabnews some tourism minister (i think) asked citizens to travel around Saudi this summer. I agree with him .. it so happens that people travel more in other countries than their own. (happened to me)
I also witnessed a Taiwanese group when I was touring the few places that I found on my ‘Riyadh Map’ – Al Masmak Castle.
I also suggest people to come down south to Abha .. if you like hilly green terrain, .. cable cares , colder weather ,, ..
Regarding friendship with Saudis, one thing that doesnt help is the language barrier. And then since the expats are of a different culture, its not easy to find similar hobbies, likenesses, etc. But this stuff can be overtaken. And kabsa meal is a good idea. Like for asian guys, u would hardly find them cooking together, having a bbq, and really enjoying it .. but with arab guys .. its like a guys party .. u cook .. u eat .. hangout .. its a good experience. I appreciate the best of both worlds, and all cultures.
Its easier to communicate with saudis who have travelled/studied abroad as they r less discriminatory as well.
Ruman,
Thanks for your comments and perspectives. I like that you have christened the gentleman “Mr Saudi.”
I wonder if we witnessed the same Taiwanese group. When I was in Maida’n Saleh last month our group was there at the same time as a Taiwanese group who were touring the Kingdom.
I may be letting the cat out of the bag a bit prematurely but a Saudi (female) friend and I are going to try to (informally) organize opportunities for Saudi women and non-Saudi women to meet and get to know one another. It is a shame that more mingling outside of work is not taking place and I consider myself fortunate each day to have a Saudi family so I can cross those barriers and enjoy the benefits and many pleasures of getting to know a lot of Saudis on a personal basis.
I will add that there are some other opportunities for cross-mingling but it seems like a lot are via word-of-mouth and not openly published. However anyone who has the opportunity to have kabsa together or better yet, go to a desert camp together for a weekend will cherish those memories.
Your interviews are always a treat carol. Keep up the great job.
Thanks, Pat. Glad you enjoy.
Excellent interview with Mr. Saudi Man. He sounds like the ‘typical’ Saudi that I have met over the years as far as his views.
Having Saudi friends is a plus in this country. I’ve met quite a few Saudi ladies at the club where I go to work out. The women are very friendly and we all have a lot of fun there. Today was a special sports day that ended up including all the celebrations of a typical Saudi wedding, but it was in the middle of the day….and best of all, we didn’t have to wait for the bride or the buffet!
I hope that you have great luck in organizing your get-togethers. Just know that you will get a ‘mixed-bag’ of people. When I organized a ‘Westerners Married to Saudi’ group here back in the mid 80′s with a friend of mine, we had women who were extremely religious to those that were Christian. We almost had to break up a fight in the ice cream shop on the first day over the abayya! Eventually, we had to split off from certain people because they were just too extreme.
A very interesting interview! The subject of your interview said, “Finally believe me the best way to become friend with other Saudis, is to say Hello and share a Kabsa meal.”
There is one thing that I find interesting about the difference of perspectives between the sexes.. Having lived in different countries around the ME, as a woman my experience is often very different from my male expat counterparts. It would be great if a woman living in Saudi Arabia could, in fact, say “hello” and share a meal with a stranger on the street, but the reality for women in the region is far different from men who might be able to strike up a conversation at the local coffee shop. A male colleague of mine went to Oman in his run-down Jeep Wrangler. He came back w/ tales of flat tires, a great coffee turned lunch w/ helpful Omani men who happened to be there.I envy the fact that men do have more of an opportunity to strike up random relationships w/ the local population. I just don’t think that’s the reality for most women.
I taught in the UAE for 3 years before I finally had adult female students who went out to dinner with me. Other than that, I didn’t work w/ many Emirati women and found limited opportunities to make friends. After all, the adult women were full time students, mothers, and wives. Not much time to start striking up friendships w/ the random foreigners (or anyone else). Just my 2 cents!
Good interview. I might not like some of his viewpoints, but it is good insight.
Have you thought about talking about music, it’s role in Saudi, and maybe taking a look at some Saudi musicians.
I am not really familiar with famous Saudi musicians outside of Abadi Johar, so it might be interesting. I am a fan of Arabic music, but we just dont hear that much about Saudi music.
About the second part of question, if I could travel in the world right now, I will visit Baghdad, the only place that one day – 9 centuries ago – assembled all of us (The Arabs) as the sciences candles.
What did you mean by this part if I can ask.
Why the westerners listen to non-Muslims about Islam religion, to non-Saudi about Saudi Arabia? Why do they ask Larry King or CNN about how does a Muslim woman feel! Instead of spending a minute to listen to a Saudi Muslim woman about how does she feel! And why I have never found a western media which was just and fair when talking about my religion and my country? And finally, why especially the Americans are media-driven people.
Ask yourself this are there any reputable Saudi/Islamic people who are willing to speak for the entire muslim community? Keep in mind the news here may be biased. We may use people we are familiar with to answer question YOU do not think are qualified to do so. But just because some isn’t Saudi or Muslim doesn’t mean we/they don’t know anything. Don’t take everything you hear about America or see on American TV as truth.
As for women covering. I am not muslim but muslimas facinate me so I like to read about (good and bad) things about what they have to go thru. I do hope you are aware there are other opinions out there on covering. When you MAKE someone do something for Allah isn’t that wrong? Should they WANT to cover on thier own free will?
As to men having one wife. Do you ever question that teaching and wonder why? Maybe there was a good reason for it in Prophet Mohammed’s, pbuh, time and it might just not fit in this day and age? Why do muslims seem to want to live in the 8th century still? Can we as a world accept islam if it is unwilling to accept that the world isn’t the same as it was in the 8th century? Honestly, even if a woman stipulates that she is the only wife Saudi men still take another wife not caring (from what I have read and I am not saying EVERYONE).
I hope you do not feel like I am picking on you but I am an American woman with strong opinions who happens to like Saudi culture or at least some of it. Feel free to answer or not. Carol I apologize if this is rude and if you wish to take it off I understand.
BTW, I just saw your post at Crossroads. You ought to do a post on special needs people in Saudi Arabia.
It is a very important, although sad topic, how these people are generally treated in Saudi, by society and by their families. They are seen to be possesed by jinn, or even indicators of their parents sins.
Witnessing their abuse was a motivator for my wife to become a special education teacher here in the USA, then we had a child with autism.
It needs to be talked about, dealt with and attitudes changed. Societies can rightly be judged by the way they treat their most vulnerable and children and adults with special needs are the most vulnerable of the lot.
All, thank you very much for your comments and expressing your views.
A 2 S: I understand your concerns if a gathering allows just anyone to turn up as you are quite right in that there are many differing groups in KSA with opinions, views and beliefs. My Saudi friend and I do plan to select invitees from our circles who do not know one another which will bring westerners and Saudis together. Then in turn, these invitees would be given the opportunity to extend invites to their friends. We’ll see how it goes!
Cairogirl: Being married to a Saudi I personally have no difficulties in meeting and getting to know Saudi woman – in addition to working with them on a daily basis too. However other ways I have met and made friends with Saudi woman have included trying to find things in local grocery stores or malls and asking for help; going to a public function and just engaging a Saudi woman beside me in conversation. These encounters resulted in continued friendships. This might sound odd but a popular place where I’ve met Saudis and we have established a friendship have been on my trips to local pet stores. There is something about a mutual love of pets that draws people together!
OnigiriFB: You wrote some good questions and I look forward to seeing them addressed and discussed. We are all entitled to sharing views which may not always be in agreement. On the subject of polygamy I do know that Mr. Saudi Man was explaining it in Islamic terms and what had been sanctioned in Islam. I’m curious, you remark that Islam remains as it was in the 8th century and is not changing with the times but what about the other faiths as well such as Catholicism, Judaism or Christianity? Are they also really changing in the times from core beliefs?
AbuSinan: Thanks for the suggestion about Saudi music. And in regards to your remark about a post on special needs people I did indeed write a post in the past on Saudi Arabia and the Handicapped.
“I’m curious, you remark that Islam remains as it was in the 8th century and is not changing with the times but what about the other faiths as well such as Catholicism, Judaism or Christianity?”
None of them change. The majority of the people following these religions aren’t as fundamentally adherent to the teachings as muslims are (or at least seem to be in such vast numbers), so it’s seen as being a non-evolving “way of life” upholding values from 1400 years ago which don’t necessarily apply today. Maybe this is why western society is so wary of islam. To put across my view as a secular, non-religious Australian, most of my friends and family find any fundamentalism a bit silly, islam Saudi-style, “born again” Christians, whatever. I’m not saying we are right or wrong but that is just our belief.
One of the things I always laugh at living in the UAE, is when I buy pork from one of the supermarkets here, even after the pork item has been packed away in its plastic wrapping and then again placed into a plastic shopping bag, the muslim guy packing our bags will pick it up and place it in our trolley using only the tips of his finger and thumb, as though it is a ticking bomb. Sometimes he will refuse to pack it or pick it up afterwards and make the non-muslim checkout girl do it. So much fear generated about an animals meat just from religion alone! lol.
Carol,
Duh, on my suggestion about the handicaped and Saudi. I even commented on your post when you did it.. I still havent caught up on the sleep I lost this weekend with the boys being sick with their fever and such. }:>)
You’re forgiven Abu Sinan! (LOL) and hope the boys are feeling better.
Ryan,
I think there is no issue with fundamentalism on its own as it is a choice. There are many fundamentalist religious groups that believe that they hold the right path to salvation without creating any issues with other groups. A good example is the Amish in the US and Canada, where there are communities which reject many of today’s conveniences (i.e. cars, electricity, etc.). However these groups live peacefully and do not try to force their ideologies on others.
Fundamentalism becomes a problem when the believers start becoming judgmental of the people around them. It begins by the simple belief that they hold the only truth from god, then escalates to wanting to change everyone to believe in that truth. At its extreme the ambitions become more aggressive such as enforcing this truth on others (example religious police) or forming political powers (ex. Salifi driven regimes in the ME).
I think many of todays religious conflicts will disappear, if fundamentalists just accept that they do not have the responsibility to deliver the truth, they have been privileged in holding, to everyone.
I do no in anyway believe the record which says: Saudi Arabia is 100% Muslim. When speaking on the topics of “faith” it is very important to first and formost admit that faith is not the record, faith is the belief and the practice. Now, considering the definition of “Muslimness” amongst Saudis, it eventaully causes the cateogrization of people as “muslims” and “mislead”/ “non-muslim”. So, even by the definition of the Muslims in Saudi, not all Saudi’s are Muslims. Okay, what I’m getting at here is this quote:
[according to the Saudi civil department, Muslims are 100% of the Saudi population, and whenever a Saudi woman choose not to cover, she is simply sending a message that she does not follow the Islamic instructions, and this is normal, followers of a specific religion do not represent the religion itself, but their religious personality, as the bad attitude and deeds of some Christians Cardinals do not represent the real religion of the Jesus peace be upon him.]
is by all mean very dangerous and discrimnatory and on some level express why records in Saudi would keep a firm percentage on religion preferences as well as why certain sectors are spoken and others are silent.
But then again, I liked about this interview is that it did reflect a very traditional Saudi character without trying to appeal to anyone.
OnigiriFB: You wrote some good questions and I look forward to seeing them addressed and discussed. We are all entitled to sharing views which may not always be in agreement. On the subject of polygamy I do know that Mr. Saudi Man was explaining it in Islamic terms and what had been sanctioned in Islam. I’m curious, you remark that Islam remains as it was in the 8th century and is not changing with the times but what about the other faiths as well such as Catholicism, Judaism or Christianity? Are they also really changing in the times from core beliefs?
Hi Carol,
First I’d like to say I enjoy your blog a lot. Saudi Arabia has facinated me since I was young and read ‘Princess’ which I now know may not be true? However it DID showcase Saudi culture and laws and etc which I did not know before hand or had any interest in before hand. After reading the book I decided I wanted to learn more about muslimas around the world and my facination with islam, in a scholarly way not in a I wish to convert way, followed me around the world. When I found your blog I realize how much real info could be found and trust your post as something that if not true of all of Saudi is at least a good representation of what you see. I think you have concerns and that comes through your writing however you balance that with a love of Saudi Arabia and it’s culture. If I at anytime offend out of ignorance or because I put my foot in it occasionally I apologize ahead of time. In all I still find KSA to be a facinating place I actually would like to see in person. If I followed my dream of being a diplomat I might already be there but alas my life took a different turn and I’m not sure I’d pass the FS exam.
Ok, so finally answer your question. No I do not think Islam itself needs to change but perhaps the interpretation of it does? Does that make sense? I feel that while Catholicism, Judaism or Christianity all may have remain to some degree static like Islam the interpretation and the way society has changed has forced it to… adapt? Islam because of it’s entire basis of believe cannot imho adapt so easily. The other 3 religions mentioned I believe can adapt (and maybe this is not a good thing in your eyes) to modernity. I think the age of enlightment changed western society into what it is today. In the long run looking back I realize human beings have always had one constant… we change. Thus religions, imho, is that religion is truely man made (also it is FOR man not G-d/Allah/Buddha) and must also adapt to man made society and world views.
I understand muslims believe Islam is the final word from Allah and can never change nor do they want it to. However, I feel that for Islam to move forward away from the idea that it gave birth to Wahhibism (sp?) and 9-11 and that all middle-easterns are terrorist Muslims around the world will need to unite. They will have to denounce any terrorist act as wrong and highly offensive to a true muslim. I am aware that the US media is biased and that we may not get the news even if there are people willing to stand up and say what is needed. I think that since there is not central head or leadership in Islam that will in the western eyes hurt it because we don’t have anyone like the Pope saying “hey this is NOT Islam!”
This kind of ties in to my comment on how the gentleman said Americans rely too much on biased media (to paraphrase). Well I feel that Saudis/Muslims rely too much on American pop culture, thier own stereotypes of how Americans are, and what they may see from American TV. Not all divorce is because American have no morals, not all Americans are slut willing to sleep with anything moving, not all women who are immodest in dress are whores, and etc.
None of these are true representations of America which if most people would try to remember is made up of 300 MILLION people not counting illegal immigrants. We have the freedom to express ourselves and be who we want within reason. Something after living outside the country and studying other cultures I find lacking or not as easy to do outside of America.
I will conclude by returning to the main point I was trying to make. Is that I feel that Islam, while maybe not needing to change, or at least it’s followers need thier own “enlightment” period. Perhaps if this happend the muslim community would stop blaming the US or western society for it’s own shortcomings and stop wishing the world was the way it was during the “Golden Age of Islam”. I highly doubt it will happen and while Islam may be the fastest growing religion, I question this as I feel being born into a religion might not be the best way to count someone as being of that religion. Also I know that in the west the birthrate has been steadily declining. This leads to a skewered count imho.
So I guess I am saying that I think muslims/Saudis/Middle-easterners/etc need to adapt and realize the world is a vastly different place than what it was when the Quran was written. I think Islam really needs to figure out if the Quran is the end all be all of Islamic thought or if the hadeeths (sp?) are. The world grows smaller and smaller and the internet has quadrupled this effect. I know I am not the only one to notice this.
Thanks again for letting me comment and I’m glad you are interested in the answers to the questions I’ve asked. I hope the gentleman can take my questions as they are meant, genuine curiosity, and answer them.
~OnigiriFB
Thanks for commenting, Aysha.
OnigiriFB,
I am looking forward to the responses your comments are sure to generate. Actually, as I understand, the true representation of Islam is that it is indeed one of the most tolerant and adaptable when practiced and followed in its purest form from its inception. However, like many things these days, perhaps modernization, has altered the perceptions. Which came first? Pure Islam or Wahabism for example?
Thanks again for taking the time to provide your thoughtful comments.
I am not sure I agree that Islam is the only? even one of the most tolerant religion in the world. Or perhaps this is only my OWN bias towards it and pretty much any religion really. I believe Buddhism, in particularly theravada (sp?) Buddhism which is what I was raised a Thai-American girl, is actually the most tolerant of them all. IF I rightly recall it is the only religion in the world that has not been used as a means of encouraging people to war and conquer another place/people/religion. I believe it is also the only religion that does not actively seek converts, which is why it is the most tolerant of others. So I’m a little confused what exactly is “pure islam” and how does it differ from Wahabism? I am a little familiar with the latter as a lot of Americans who remember 9-11 probably are.
I am also interested in the responce this generates and hope once again that anyone reading realizes I am not trying to berate Islam but am genuinely curious and believe constructive critism is helpful.
Carol, I’m thinking about non-Muslim expats who go to live and work in KSA. Being married to a Saudi definitely provides social opportunities that might not have existed before.
First time to post on your blog…but Ive been reading for awhile now.
Ive always found it interesting that Muslims will say its obligatory for women to cover…they have no choice about it because God says so(so they say) in the Quran…and yet they feel they must still walk around and enforce that belief with sticks…..on all women…not just the Muslim ones. Covering your hair whether u believe it to be islamic or not…is not one of the 5 pillars of Islam…and yet women are punished for failing to fullfill that “obligation”…what happened to “there is no compulsion in religion”…what happened to “truth will stand out from falsehood”…what happened to “no person can bear the burden of another”?
I believe in the God of the Quran that mentions the word justice over 50 times…and does not treat men and women differently in regards to obligations etc ever…I believe in the God of the Quran that sees whats on the inside of a woman and blesses or punishes her based on her niya…or intent and taqwa..rather than if her hair is exposed. I believe in the God of the Quran that tells men to “lower their gaze and guard their modesty”…and if muslim men spent half as much time concentrating on that phrase rather than the ones that pertain to women…Muslim women wouldnt have to bother about covering their hair and becoming invisible to the apparently uncontrollable lusting eyes of Muslim men.
Just wanted to say that…nice blog.
coolred38
Carol,
Do you think you portrayed an accurate image of a Saudi man or continue to feed into the stereo-type? There are MANY cultures with-in the Saudi culture, therefore negative or positive you would have to interview 1,000 Saudi men to tap into a “Saudi Man’s Perspective”.
N.
Saudi in US: I’ll get back to you one of these days for that misogynist-female-unfriendly-remark!!!!
Bedu: Thanks for the invite! and if you lived somewhere else I’d be on your doorstep one of these days. But that is the whole poin t isn’t it? How much chance will I have of getting a visa? Single female? And how am I supposed to get into meeting with real saudi’s and having a look at how they live?
Real saudies don’t even know how other saudis live: everybody is locked up with their family.
How many expats are ”integrating” and getting to know all about the people and the country and culture? How easy would it be for me to become friends with saudis and say hello and share a Kabsa meal?
Quite zip isn’t it?
No, nice one, Bedu, but I wonder if you really managed to grab a saudi bloke or made it all up yourself!
[...] KSA: Perspectives from a Saudi ManWomen drove since the first day cars entered Saudi Arabia. Just travel outside cities and you will see the countries’ women fueling their cars in the petrol stations and bringing their children from the schools. … [...]
Some wonderful comments while I was away from the blog!
Cairo Girl – in my earlier response to you I was citing other ways which in turn led me to getting to know some other Saudi women. However most recently there have been some various networking opportunities in Riyadh at least that have had mixed (Saudi & Non-Saudi participants) which have been great for getting to know one another and share our cultures and traditions.
Coolred38: Thank you for your comment and welcome to the blog.
Aafke – if you receive a specific invitation as a visitor then that’s how you would proceed for a visa. Or for the real adventurous you take advantage of the group tourism visas. But coming in as MY visitor, I would guarantee you see how real Saudis live behind their walls and even have you help prepare the kabsa!
Now Aafke, I know you are joking about the latter question in your comment…
N Alrajhi: I believe this interview portrayed “a perspective.” Just like the NY Times piece on Saudi Youth, this interview provides one individuals views. However many may not have an opportunity to hear (or read) the words and views of a Saudi man so that is the context the post should be taken.
N Alrajhi: Bedu has named this post ”Perspective from A saudi male”
So not ALL saudi males.
And I think it’s a lot less tendentious as the one by the NY Times.
Bedu: no, I am quite serious!?
A real saudi bloke would know better than just suggesting a buch of foreigners can just pop by in KSA and share a Kabsa meal with the inhabitants.
(Yeah, right, I’m invited to a meal and then have to do the cooking myself????)
Ok, glad you are back, and I’ll behave now.
Hi Aafke,
I believe Mr. Saudi Man was likely referring to expats who are working in KSA; how can they get to better know Saudis rather than just at the workplace.
At least in my husband’s family it is kind of traditional when we make kabsa everyone is in the kitchen and contributing to the meal!
Was I missed?
His was a climb for peace. Farouk Saad Hamad Al-Zuman made a call for prayer from the summit of Mount Everest, a first to be recorded in the Islamic history of exploration and adventure. Not only this, he was the first to perform prayer
It is indeed an incredible accomplishment!
Bedu: you were not missed; you were gone for too short a time, and I was too busy making up wicked comments while you couldn’t edit
Everybody in the kitchen too make the kabsa meal sounds excellent! This way your fun time is doubled!
Ah gee…next time I’ll have to have a longer absence I guess….thank you for all of your wicket comments!
Absolutely…even when I’m cooking and “not making guests cook” I don’t mind having them in the kitchen as I cook and we chat.
[...] KSA: Perspectives from a Saudi ManHave you had opportunities to travel outside of the Kingdom? If so, what has been your favorite place? And all factors being equal, if you could travel anywhere in the world right now, where would you choose to go and why? … [...]