Thanks to Khalid for asking that a specific post be composed about the distinctions between having a Saudi or non-Saudi husband. Which is better? Marrying within your own “kind” or venturing out into a bi-cultural relationship where the differences in nationality may be the least of the distinctions? Of course a major factor to take into consideration are the individuals themselves, their ability to communicate, their respective values. These factors are core to any successful relationship.
But when one looks closely at a non-Saudi woman choosing to marry a Saudi there are so many variables on whether the relationship will be successful. There are vast differences in culture and customs and particularly so when the marriage is between someone from the West to a Saudi. Language and religion can be key factors as well. And additionally, family (on both sides) can have a major role and impact on the success (or failure) too.
I remember prior to when my Saudi husband and I married. There were a number of “nay-sayers” with comments like “what, are American men not good enough….why can’t you stick to your own kind….the majority of American to Saudi marriages fail…you know him now outside of KSA but when you get there you’ll find yourself married to a stranger.”
And in a post-911 world, US-Saudi marriages likely come under more scrutiny and not just by that embassy official looking at the passport when the Saudi husband wishes to accompany his wife on a visit back to the States, but by citizens on both sides. There are many (Americans and Saudis alike) who will raise the eyebrows and either with their words or expressions question why an American and a Saudi would wish to become involved in a post-911 world where additional scrutiny is taken on the relationship and there are so many from both sides who believe a US-Saudi marital relationship is not a wise move.
But on the main theme of this post, I don’t think there are specific distinctions whether the wife is American, British, German, Dutch, Japanese, Pakistani, Syrian, etc., and married to a Saudi. As long as the communication, love, respect, values and partnership is there, any relationship will have a good chance of success.
People will talk. In the same vein there will be questions or comments about the wife’s nationality or the husband being Saudi, even say when two Americans marry one another, people may find some issue to “bash” about if for whatever reason they do not respect or like the spouse. Yes; with diverse cultures and backgrounds there are the additional remarks made that can place pressure on a couple. My suggestion is to talk about this issue and determine how as a husband-wife team one would respond and present a cohesive front.
When Khalid asked me to post on this subject, he made a reference to a Saudi who was denied a visa when wishing to travel to the States with his American wife for a visit. Sure, one could easily imagine how such an action could change his perspective on the States and Americans, but instead, he chose to respect decisions made and not let that impact on his view of America and Americans. That is commendable.
Filed under: America, culture, gender, islam, politics, relationships, religion, Saudi Arabia, Saudi culture, Saudi customs, travel, Uncategorized
Call me a hypocrite, but when a Qatari national (who is a distant relative of the girl) came to propose to a family member, I strongly advised against it. I have a couple of female friends, all Saudi nationals, who’ve married non-Saudis (Yemeni, Syrian, Omani) and good grief do they have endless headaches because of it. Everything “official” from their kids going to university, getting passports and traveling, to buying property is 10x’s more difficult because of their husbands non-Saudi status. Men marrying non-Saudis…no prob – Women marrying non-Saudis…a completely different issue, even if they’re other Gulf Arabs and in some cases, relatives.
You bring up some very valid issues that many may not think about or even realize, particularly as pertains when a Saudi female marries a non-Saudi.
There’s a distinct type of Saudi-non Saudi marriages that is quite prevalent here in the Western region. The case where the non-Saudi is someone who has lived their whole life in Saudi Arabia, is completely immersed and integrated in the society, is culturally Saudi, you’d swear they’re Saudi (as long as you don’t ask for ID), yet isn’t naturalized due to some reason or another. Life can be very difficult for these in-betweens, since they don’t wholly belong to their country of origin (culturally) or to their country of residence (legally).
A Saudi friend of mine was in love with a girl in a similar situation. He applied for marriage and was hit by a wall of red tape. Lacking a “wasta” his application was denied. It’s been close to seven years now and my friend has yet to marry.
You said, “…communication, love, respect, values and partnership…” give “…any relationship…” a good chance of success. That’s true, of course, but those concepts carry important shades of meaning that may not be shared even between people from the same background. Problem is, they often discover that too late.
Add the legal and economic issues mentioned above, and you’ve got some challenging circumstances.
Still, I’ve known plenty of Saudi-non-Saudi couples who’ve worked through all of that to make good marriages and lovely families.
Middle age, however, brings a whole new set of issues. When the children are grown, they are usually conversant in both languages, comfortable anywhere, and more likely to consider a “mixed” marriage for themselves. That means more traveling, homes in other countries, and big decisions for the parents as they will want to be close to their kids, especially as the grandchildren arrive, and old age approaches.
Actually another separate issue worth a post and dialogue of its own could be about the children of bicultural marriages and particularly when one partner is a Saudi. How does that impact (if at all) in the choices when it comes to marriage given the environment and culture where marriages continue to traditionally be arranged? How accepting is a family to embrace a family member who may not be viewed as a “pure Saudi” (if that is indeed perceived)?
It would seem here, and I know from first hand experience, that often the issues are not within the marriage, but come from forces outside of it. It might be family, more often than not, it seems to be the Saudi government itself and roadblocks it places in the way of it’s citizens wishing to marry non Saudis, especially Saudi women.
To tell you the truth when I married my Saudi wife I didnt think about the government issues. It never occurred to me that first, a government would make it so hard for their citizens to marry, and second that the Saudi government would place it’s own rules on top of what is required in Islam.
Saudi is supposed to be the land of the two holy shrines, the home of Islam. What is allowed under Islam should be an automatic for the citizens of that country, but I learned that is NOT the case. The Saudi government imposes requirements and conditions that have nothing to do with The Qur’an, Hadith or the Sunnah of the Prophet.
Not that I would have changed my mind about marrying my wife, I love her, but I certainly had no indications of the trouble ahead.
Amor omnia vincit, I hope.
I don’t know if it’s a matter of better or worse. My husband is from Egypt, and in some ways the differences are exciting (especially at the beginning). That said, it’s a hell of a lot of work getting past the cultural differences. Even if you think you know someone, get married and all of the sudden new cultural expectations arise. This happens in any marriage, but I find the adjustment w/ a man from a culture very different from my own makes it even more challenging. I read a statistic a few years ago that said that marriages between Americans and non-Americans often ended in divorce. Those that made it to the 6 year mark became part of a very low divorce statitic. Perhaps that’s the magic number! If you can make it to 6 years and get beyond all the cultural challenges then it’s a home run.
As my husband made plans to come here (he was my fiance at the time), he was warned by friends of his in the UAE of how he would be treated; that getting the visa would be difficult; that he would be suspected by US officials in the process of entering the country. None of this was the case. My husband (then fiance) was refused a visit visa, but simply because we were engaged and awaiting the completed fiance visa (they don’t want you entering and staying on a visit visa). He’s been living here for the past 3 years w/o incident. I suppose the experience is what you make of it. If you’re prepared to be jaded, then you will not be disappointed.
Yes, normally they refuse a visit visa if you are married to a US citizen. They want you to go through the whole process of applying for residency. Even if you only want to stay for two weeks. The only way to bypass this is to apply for a business visa, and you have to have money and assets to back that up.
most certainly, if one is married to a person of a different nationality (in this case still Arab) there are some differences to overcome. disputes may occur concerning how to raise a child, over traditions. it can same as any average marriage but if you throw the national differences, that can be tough over a long period of time.
Every marriage has its ups and downs, the bumps in the road, no matter where you both are from. But it definitely is even more challenging and difficult when there are cultural differences and religious differences to contend with as well. Love may not be able to conquer all for many couples of mixed marriages. At the same time, it can be more exciting and interesting. I believe it all boils down to the couple as individuals and how much they are willing to give and take to go the distance.
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm,a lot of saudi royals are married to non saudis,some even more then one,i wonder what the saudi law and gov ,says about that.
There are always exceptions….
Funny, cuz the Saudi Royals, themselves, are the LAW!!! They change God’s laws to what ever they want. God, himself, is nothing compared to them!! After all, they are “royalty”, you know? (bowing down to the almighty royals) LOL (sarcastically speaking of course)
Yeah right? Kill me first, before I bow down to any one of them…………………
I’m sorry that Khalid can’t go to the states. If things were reversed, I’m sure that the Saudis would be just as cautious with us.
As to the Saudi Royals, they are another whole ballgame. They may not live by all the ‘regular’ rules, but their lives are not exactly as easy as many believe. They too have rules — their own ‘family’ rules that they have to live by. Enough said on that….I don’t want to get into trouble!
I think that the hardest thing that many long-standing Saudi/American married couples are now facing is due to the ‘sexual revolution’ that has hit Saudi Arabia. The new ‘friendship’ marriages, ‘summer’ marriages, and ‘weekend’ marriages are wreaking havoc on these ‘long-term’ relationships here in the Kingdom, and it is undermining the trust between husband and wife of newly married couples as well. It has become a form of ‘dating’ now.
The latest ‘excuse’ given by many men (and women!) is that there are more women than men here in the Kingdom so the guys are ‘helping’ the society by taking another wife. A Russian gal today told me that the married women here are upset that their ‘Saudi’ men are taking another wife from other ‘poorer’ countries, but that the men are only doing it to ‘help’ these poor girls that no one else in the world cares about. (She is really clueless as to what is happening in this country.)
Recently, I was told this statement about there being more girls than boys is false. Does anyone have any real facts on this? I’d be interested to know.
As I said before, I highly advise against any western woman marrying a Saudi now unless they come from mixed marriages themselves. The odds of it lasting and the laws in the country are stacked against her.
A2S – I’m working on a post about the population in the Kingdom and what that could mean in regards to marriages…stay tuned!
Even though I am married to a Saudi as well, I would not recommend a mixed marriage as such to anyone under the age of 30, if at all.
A2S,
Interesting that the Russian lady thinks the Saudi guys are doing it to help the women from other countries. The type of marriage used, misyar, does not require the man to provide a single thing for the woman, gives her no real rights and does not require the man to support any children that come from the marriage.
The only thing be “helped” by these marriages is usually the man’s libido.
Outside of Saudi, many if not most scholars think such marriages are haram in the religion. I agree complete. It is nothing more than halal prostitution or halal dating.
I am not an advocate of the misyar marriage but I am aware of several women who have chosen this as right for them. Some are professional women such as doctors who work long hours and are on call and who do not want the responsibility of taking care of a home, husband and children but do want halal companionship.
Carol,
But I then fail to see how that is halal. Basically what they want is a boyfriend.
Misyar is a Saudi invented bi’da (innovation) to skirt Islamic laws on marriage, plain and simple.
It is interesting that the explaination for most Saudis for having so many maids, nannies and drivers is because they dont have the time to take care of the home, husband and children. So even when they have the maids, nannies and drivers to take care of this all they still dont have time? I dont buy it.
It is my experience that most Saudi women who do this are divorced and have a really hard time finding a Saudi man who will take them on as a full time wife. So misyar is a way for them to gain some sort of a relationship that otherwise might not be available because of Saudi aversion to marrying divorcees.
A prime example………..how many virgins, ie women who have never been married, choose misyar? If it is about being a doctor, not having the time, ect, there must be a bunch of unmarried women who have taken this route right?
The truth is I think you’d be hard pressed to find more than a few Saudi women who have never been married who would consider misyar. Their families would go insane over it if they suggested it.
It is just how it is described in western media, “convenience marriage”.
It just isnt allowable under Islamic law. This is a prime example of where Saudi tradition differs from Islamic law. It is not a marriage, it is a relationship, like dating. Like dating you can move from one partner to another rather quickly with none of the rights or responsibilities of a marriage.
It is done by women who dont have much in the way of options and it is unfair for them.
Abu Sinan, I do not make the laws in the Kingdom…
The few misyar marriages in which I am personally aware the women had not been married before so you don’t want to jump too quickly to conclusions. And I also would not throw nannies, drivers and housemaids into the equation with marriages either.
_Carol, true, some people have their own conclusion even before the topic comes out (Even before you write it down also
) Such people I like to call them ‘high muckamuck’ 
. They are always on the alert to attack anything in front of them. They listen two their own voice only. If you say anything that nocks down their ideas, you are considered an enemy. — (you are either with me or against me) this is their core belief– Such people don’t accept others to disagree with them 
A warning for everyone: if you encounter in your life or in this Blog, this type of people, ignore them cause they can do nothing but babbling and babbling… There is a well-known Arabic proverbs that says “Al kelabo tanbah(tanba7), wa al qafela tasir”
_A2S, if the Khalid you mean is me
then I’d like to assure you that I can enter the US (I have my visa valid till 2010 
) LOL , I’m not married yet 
but planning to 
_AbuSinan, Has anyone asked you to bow to anyone on earth? Or again, inventing scenarios, and acting in your own imaginative movies
(teasing only) 
_Related to this post, I’m considering to write a paper for one of my classes this summer about the effects on children coming from mixed marriages. I’m thinking to tackle things like: racialization/nationalism, hybridity, diversity/difference, migrancy/home, self expression/authenticity. It’s not by any mean related to KSA or the US, but as a topic in general. If anyone can suggest academically accepted resources, I’d greatly appreciate sharing them with me.
Salam Delhi,
I don’t think Abu Sinan ever mentioned that you made any laws. I think he is pointint out that this is cultural BS that has nothing to do with TRUE ISLAM. This whole misyar bologna is a “convience marriage” period, whether anyone chooses to accept this or not. It is a marriage created and run by “Wahabism” which is running the kingdom. Islamic law, Shari’a law, unfortunately has and is being altered to this day by “wahabis”, so please, lets not kid ourselves here.
As a Saudi woman, I can tell you right off that no respectable or dignified family would ever allow their virgin daughter to be married into such a marriage. From a cultural standpoint, she will be condemned by the community around her and will be looked down upon. And if in fact a family does allow their virgin daughter such a marriage; well the family is probably one of a lower class anyway and basically cut their daughter very short for any future decent and traditional proposals of any kind.
I can certainly understand divorced women going through the “misyar”. But even then, I have a hard time comprehending why would a woman go through such a thing knowing it is not right in Islam? Unless of course, she follows “wahabism”.
Let’s look at this from a practical standpoint. Why would a woman choose such a marriage knowing that if she had kids, the man is 100% completely not responsible in any, way, shape or form? Aside from this, the woman period has no rights what so ever. To me, that is utter stupidity.
Before I met my husband, I was offered a “misyar” marriage by this man and of course I refused it because I have too much dignity and pride to ever sell myself short like that. And btw, this is from a woman who had not had a relationship of any kind for 12 years between my divorce and marrying Abu Sinan. I could have done this misyar because lets face it, hormones can kick in. But, and Alhamdulillah, I have too much respect for myself, too much respect for my children and my family.
Eventhough in public ppl might talk positively etc about these types of marriages, reality is that in private everyone knows what these marriages are about.
Basically, what a misyar marriage is in terms that an American might understand, is a “halal booty call”. And if you ask me, the only “halal” way is through a decent and respectable traditional marriage written by God’s law period……………….anything else, is a way for people to FOOL themselves into believing it is decent……………..
Carol,
As Manal said, I dont think I ever said that you made such a claim. We are only debating a subject here, nothing else. Far from being inflexible, I have been known to change my opinions and ideas about a range of subjects if only provided proper proofs and justifications.
I have yet to see a defense mounted for misyar that can support it in either a religious context or a societal context. Barring such proofs, I think the practice goes against Islam and is more often than not destructive on a personal level and a societal level.
Khalid,
I think you confused myself with my wife Manal who has posted. If the names didnt give away the difference, the writing style should have.
As an American, I have never found the need to bow to anything or anyone. As we, the citizens, are the king makers, it is those who would wish to lead our nation that come hat in hand and seek our approval, not the other way around.
As a Muslim I find that the only thing worth bowing to in this life is God. Nothing else in this duniya would I lower myself to bow to.
Sorry AbuSinan for the mistake. I’ve not visited the site for about 10days , so I was hastily reading all the posts and the comments. It seems I got confused with the comment you mentioned you wrote it from your wife laptop. Sure, no one on earth deserves bowing to. Even the prophet Muhammad pbuh, we will not bow for him. It’s to God , and no one but God.
Sadly, it does seem like the misyar concept is catching on for one can read about such marriages also taking place elsewhere in the region as well and it is not just with marriage to Saudis.
I think that bi-cultural marriages can work very well if the husband and wife have made a firm decision to be together forever and if they truly love each other. If they truly love each other, then they will be willing to make compromises and adjustments and work through the differences.
I have also noticed that many times, even people belonging to the same nationality can have completely different cultures. Sometimes we are closer in culture to people of other nationalities then to people of our own. I know I have found this to be true of myself. Even though I grew up in America, I feel that I identify more with eastern culture.
I think that oftentimes these marriages fail because of how often they are told that they will fail. They hear it all of the time from family, friends, and the media and so they start to have doubts. I think it’s difficult to keep a positive attitude when day in and day out you are given so much negative input.
Mookda,
Thanks for your comments. I can say from one who has been here for a while that there are valid reasons why so many of the Saudi-Western marriages fail, in spite of the man and woman having all the best intentions and starting with the love and commitment.
Oh, Khalid, sorry, I misread what was written and didn’t realize it was a friend of yours, NOT you. I stand corrected.
Mookda, I have lived here almost 30 years, and I can tell you that the western women that married Saudi men and came here to live all believed that they were truly in love with their college sweethearts/soulmates and never EVER dreamed that their husbands might someday take on another wife…or that they already HAD a wife and children here! And, although I don’t think my own husband would do this, neither did they! In the last ten years, we have seen it happen among many of our friends.
And, this is on top of the regular divorces one sees for the usual reasons that we have in the west….drugs, abuse, etc. New western women coming here may think that it’s no big deal because they can just divorce and move on…but they don’t realize that THEY can leave, BUT many times their husband won’t let them take the children with them. And, that’s why many women are stuck in this country….they’re waiting for the day that their children are older so they can go.
If the woman in love realizes that these things may happen to her, but is still willing to take the risk…I’d say, go for it. And, in 25 or 30 years, if it happens to her, she will at least have known that it was a possibility….and hopefully, she will have prepared herself for that future.
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