This is a delicate subject which I have touched on briefly in the past. Whether one may personally agree with this practice or not, according to Islam a man may have up to four wives IF certain conditions are met. Now I am not going to focus on what is or is not stated in the Quran in regards to how many wives a Muslim male may have and under what conditions. Instead, this post will focus on some of the delicate issues a wife may have to face if she is not the only wife of a Saudi man.
Once one has been in the Kingdom for a period of time it is inevitable that a woman will meet other women whose husband has multiple wives. Among the questions that commonly arise when discussing a multi-wife situation are finances. For example, should a foreign wife give financial help to her husband when there are multiple wives/ex-wives involved in the relationship? Should a foreign wife continue to help support a Saudi husband, if he takes another wife and has other children, without her consent? It seems that foreign wives who may find themselves in such a situation were usually not consulted and/or not aware of the existence of another wife(s) and in many cases had built a good foundation with their Saudi husband such as a house, savings and other assets. But naturally if a Saudi man takes another wife, his income automatically drops due to the additional financial obligations he has taken on. But should a foreign wife (or Saudi wife for that matter) suffer as a result of HIS actions?
It seems that some women who find themselves in a polygamous relationship against their will or choice feel that they no longer have choices or options; especially if children are involved. Saudi law automatically grants custody of children to a man in the event a relationship is terminated through divorce. Therefore many women stay unhappily married and in a situation they intensely dislike rather than risk being separated from their husband. If the wife is a foreign wife and divorces due to dissent over the husband having another wife, she automatically loses her “mahrem” (male guardian) and can be forced to leave the Kingdom without her children. So if a woman decides to remain against her will in such a relationship for the sake of the children, what should she do in regards to financial matters? How can she protect herself and ultimately her children?
I recognize that this post is ultimately asking more questions rather than answering them. It is difficult to provide answers when you are not the one in someone’s shoes as such guidance can change an individual’s life. These are answers that need to be provided without having emotions involved as much as possible. My first instinct is to encourage the woman to be strong and remember she has choices. If the situation is unbearable and bringing her down emotionally, mentally and physically, get out of the situation. Every woman has viable skills that can be put to use and hidden reserves she may not even know she has until a time of crisis.
Filed under: Saudi Arabia, Saudi culture, Saudi customs, culture, gender, islam, relationships, religion
Future planning in my opinion is the number one issue.
1- Some Saudi husbands, especially in previous generations, insisted women stay at home or are restricted to specific jobs. A man who will NOT allow his wife to work, no matter how rich/loving he is, I cannot stress how dangerous it is to stay with him. Yes, no matter how emotions say “but it feels so warm and safe and right!” As for husbands who restrict their wives to particular jobs, again, do not take his word for it. Work on the job that brings you, as an independent entity, financial security, job security, and hopeful future “INTERNATIONALLY”.
2- For Saudi wives, who carry only the Saudi passport, I would also stress getting the yellow “travel approval by guardian signature”. Life can be strange, and men who are reasonable and logical in the beginning of a relationship or abroad might change.
3- For Saudi and Foreign wives, there’s no reason to have your passport somewhere where you can’t obtain it, or in a safety deposit which the husband only can open it. Keep it with you at all times.
4- Work hard in the beginning to save money. Never open shared accounts. Hesitate to volunteer in payments made to imaginary or unknown purposes. The woman is not expected to help financially in Saudi, unless she full heartedly wishes. I would limit participation to buying things for the kids, doing some of the furnishing at home, fullstop. Nothing major as paying the lease, or paying for children’s education (if they go to private school). Not only would this help the man make a habit of leaning on his wife for what he grew up knowing to be his responsibility, it will also make him less of a man, less motivated to impress the woman, and to try harder finding a decent job.
5- If you have problems with your family, keep as much of them to yourself as possible. Always make the man think you have support somewhere else in the world. Real, solid, strong, love and support. People who are waiting for you. Do not over state it so it becomes a challenge, but make it clear enough so it is known.
6- Try to become lovable by the husband’s family, not in a surrender myself to you way, but in a “I’m a good person” way, and by taking the initiative to celebrate some of their occasions apart from your husband. Make the husband’s family see you as a person, and not as part of a person. If they are reasonable and kind family, they might discourage him in case he wants to remarry, and they might stand by you in case he mistreats you after remarriage.
7- Know lots of women, lots of respectable women “according to Saudi status”. First, you will have a source to distinguish yourself -again- as seperate identity from your husband. Second, you will have other sources about Saudi rightness-which might totally contradict any manipulation some men like to play whether aware or not aware. What I mean is, if the man tells you “this is normal in Saudi,” or “this is how women do, this is what they expect/accept” always have your own conclusions and arguments ready.
8- Do not let the kid’s issue postpone you from making a necessary decision such as asking for divorse, especially if certain “NO NO’s” occur. Make careful plans, meet with other ladies, network with people who know and understand the law. The thing about being a woman in Saudi, is that you are restricted sometimes, but you can easily bend hearts and get men to do favors for you for free
Also understand the laws of your native country clearly, and see if there are hoops that would help you overcome the Saudi law and take your kids to your original country.
One of the many stipulations regarding polygamy is that a man is able to equally support financially and emotionally more than one wife and family.
Obviously that requirement is not always met.
In Kuwait, there have been many cases in which the wife (Kuwaiti or otherwise) has helped support the family financially only to find that the husband has with or without her consent taken on another wife.
Some women (especially non-Kuwaitis) take preventive measures and that is not to support the husband financially in the first place.
Even if she works, a woman is free to do as she likes with her own money but it is the husband’s role to provide for the family.
In that way, a woman believes she holds a tighter rein over her husband should he consider another wife.
I do wonder, however, if this works
Carol
The natural western view absorbed from films probably, is that the multiple wives all live under the same roof. The picture you paint is somehow similar to our culture in the UK. The only difference it would appear between KSA and UK, is that here the man would be a bigamist.
Is this not a case similar to a man (in Europe) having a mistress and maintaining her financially?
Apart from the correct advice of not sharing her income with her husband. Is there not a negative emotional content that the woman suffers?
Am I right in assuming that there appears to be a lack of communication which is also the same reason why men wander off to seek another partner.
This is a comment for Winslie. I’m not sure if it’s a legitimate question regarding the reason a man would take on another partner or simply a prod to elicit more comments. If you will allow the question makes certain cherished assumptions that are true some of the time and wrong most of the time. While communication between spouses is essential and valued it is perfectly possible that a man have excellent communications with his wife but have lesser rapport with a younger, less-worldy person. He’s not into it for the conversation dear. Also it’s possible that a man has been deliberately keeping his whereabouts and plans vague to his wife to cover extra-curricular activities which might one day turn into a second or third wife.
In all fairness we should allow that some men make such a hash of their first relationships or are truly unlucky in their choice of mate but finally find someone who is closer to what they had hoped for. They can start new with a person who starts out adoring them and do their best to conceal their bumps and warts. Just because they find someone whom they feel adds extra dimensions to their marriage experience doesn’t necessarily mean they want to punish or harm the first wife so they keep her on.
Prevention? I doubt that really is an option unless the man decides himself that he will be happy in a monogamous relationship. In Saudi society it is the exception, not the rule that a man is happy with one wife. Many of them secretly or openly are contemplating adding to the collection.
That is part of the problem. A man is REQUIRED in Islam to support his family, or families. The wives are under NO obligation to do so. If she chooses to do so it is a charity to her husband, but she certainly should not be pressured into doing so.
There are many reasons why a man would want to seek a second wife. Those are his reasons. If he makes a choice to do so then he should be in a position to support them properly.
Some women actually prefer to be the second wife. They really dont want a “full time” husband and would rather only see him 2-3 days a week. Again, a choice they make.
In short I’d say a wife should NOT support her husband’s other wives. That is HIS job. If he cannot do so then he must refrain from taking another wife.
Carol
Just realised I was asking more questions on top of the questions you already pose.
Trust it would appear is a victim in these realationships.
@Kinz
Being a man I can guess some of the motives for wanting another partner. Silda Spitzer of NYC could probably explain more.
But the whoile ”lust” thing is not a viable reason according to the quran, on the contrary it is a sin. One is supposed to marry older widows, with children. To support them. And one is supposed to treat them completely equal in all matters, and it also states: ”you will not be able to do so” so basically you really can’t.
(I can’t look it up and give you the correct quotes right now, because I lost internet and am on another computer)
And can’t a woman have it put in her marriage contract, if she doesn’t want her husband to take a second wife?
And if you have no other options, you can always add a little something extra to the qawa.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080311/ap_on_re_us/spitzer_political_spouseshttp://
One therapist who deals with couples in crisis says most wronged women do want to at least try to work things out. “Your lives are intertwined, emotionally, financially and physically,” said Gail Saltz, who practices in New York City. “You share children. Just because someone has hurt and betrayed you deeply doesn’t mean you stop loving them. It’s very complicated for any woman who finds her husband has betrayed her.”
And the fact that the alleged betrayal was with a prostitute is a double-edged sword, says Saltz. On the one hand, “this isn’t a woman that he fell in love with. On the other, many women would find the prostitution part particularly humiliating.”
Joanna Coles, editor in chief of the women’s magazine Marie Claire, feels that at least for the moment, Silda Spitzer had no choice but to stand publicly by her husband, for whom she gave up an active career as a corporate lawyer.
—————————-
I am also usually guilty of asking…. ‘ Why do they stay? ‘ so I thought that I’d copy this tidbit for everyone who has the same question as I do. I think that for those of us not hit by something like this, we really don’t know what we’d do. Our first reaction would be to walk out the door and never look back…or so one would think. And when you’re single and independent, it’s easy to do. But, when you’re married, it’s no longer all about you. It also involves your children, the grandparents, the social network, your job….etc. Your gut reaction is to walk…and quickly…but the reality of the situation is…’and go where?’ If women prepare themselves financially, at least the option to walk is there.
I think everyone has added very good thought provoking comments and advise.
In response to the query posed by Aafke, as I understand, yes; a woman can stipulate in a marriage contract that the husband would not take another wife but since this is viewed as halal in the Quran, such a stipulation would likely not stand up in court. Although it could probably be used by the wife as a reason for seeking and being granted a divorce.
All comments concerning men in the west having extra marital affairs and therefore our society being similar to islamic ones in this respect fail to note one very important point. Women in the west desire and have affairs too because we are all human. It is no worse for women to have affairs than men. It is not desirable but it happens because it is difficult to be faithful to any one partner for countless years. It is, of course, cruel to demand faithful behaviour of one sex but not the other, that is men just wanting it all their own way. However, as they say, sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander” If women are attracted to another man other than their husband this is as natural as a man attracted to other women. It is how God made us.
Patriarchy has caused this sharp divide in islamic countries and it is not a natural one.
Sadly, you are describing that in life, women cannot trust their husband and must take actions daily to protect themselves. How sad the marriage must be. I would say that men must also protect themselves in marriages, particularly in America. Hence, premarital contracts. Again it is sad that people enter into marriage with someone knowing that they must protect themselves. Why do it at all? I have come to the conclusion that it is best not to marry at all. One’s chances of a successful, happy relationship are 50 percent at best. Those odds are not high enough for me.
Poor Phantom Man, but each to his own i guess…
Sure things look bleak with all this info added about payments and such but once you are fiancially succure you can have that free time to be with your spouse without the fighting and bickering about money and such.
Women don’t go into marriages blindly, yes love is strong but so is hatered which comes with divorces. Men do your duty and don’t shirk your wife(ves). On the Day it is said that the man who is unfair to his wives will have half his body leaning and slouched to one side. DO you men wanna look like that to meet Allah? Be fair. Women protect yourself. Stipulate a large amount of money in your marriage contracts, enough for you and your children(XX$ per child had in marriage) to survive in an Arab country/ANY country by yourself for a year until you can get yourself a job, in the case he divorces you or dies. Then you will have something to fall back on even if you’re a stay at home type.
NEVER NEVER NEVER support the husband’s other wives. You will be the one loosing. (Exceptions are if you chose the wife and your hubby is disabled to work and the like and you want him to have more childrn with this other woman because your hubby is a good man etc…. so there are few exceptions but as rule: NEVER)
Have a number on speed dial of a fabulous divorce lawyer who will get you sorted out and the man to pay up his fees of maintanance if the Poly goes wrong. Want for your sisters as you want for yourself EQUALITY. As you demand diamond earings demand your hubby gives to his other wife and may ALLAH reward you.
Phanton man does touch on an interesting point. If society and law in KSA are so very much NOT on the side the divorced foreign woman, it makes marriage to a saudi man in KSA appear to be a real gamble. Perhaps that’s a post in a itself!
I have a question….although it is a little random, I do feel that it ties in.
What happens to the family or “families” in the event of the husbands
untimely death? Does he have life insurance?
What if one of his wives dies? Would the children come and live with the other family?
What is the custom in these awful circumstances?
Hello Carol:
Well, everyone here has said a lot of what I was thinking.
This reminds me of my grandmother. She pinched away a little money here, a little there and her stash really added up after a time.
I especially agree with most here that a Muslim woman should NEVER offer her money – only in EXTREME circumstances.
I am an only wife at this time. I retired from my full time job, but work one day a week and get a retirement check. Everytime I go to the store or something, I give my husband the receipt. If he does his job, then I can use my own money for saving, or to buy the luxuries that I want.
Marriage…the Ultimate Gamble
Phantom,
You shouldn’t give up. A good marriage is the greatest gift one can have if you can find the right person to share your life with. Unfortunately, things happen in the best of marriages, but that doesn’t mean that your ’soul mate’ isn’t out there. I feel like I’m married to mine…even after all these years. However, our marriage, like almost all marriages that have survived 25+ years, has had its ups and downs. (Oh yes, the ride of my life!) During some of the down times, I started noticing other troubled marriages in Saudi in particular, and the horrors of some of them. It really began to affect me. Luckily, my husband and I were fortunate enough to patch things up and move on….
If a Saudi man really wants to marry an American woman, and he really wants the ultimate dream with her….that life-long friend…till death do you part deal (that I think most Saudi women prefer as well), then he needs to realize that this ‘western’ wife (in the majority of cases) will probably not be willing to ’share’ him with any other women….at least not happily.
My husband knows this…because we discussed this issue a bit even before we got married while I was still a Christian. And even though I’ve converted to Islam, and I believe that he is allowed 4 wives in Islam, I am just not the person for living in that type of arrangement….and I’ve made that very, very clear. Does that make me a jealous wife or an insecure female? Maybe in the eyes of men who want to have 4. But, that’s my right. And if one day that’s what my husband wants…I want him to have it. (Just not with me.) Why would I want to stay with someone that wants to be with someone else? I’d give him his freedom and I’d marry someone else that wants the same things that I want….. (My grandmother got remarried at age 65 when my grandfather passed away, and almost again at 80 when her second husband passed away, so I know anything is possible.)
However, many years ago, there was a time when I had given up finding that ‘right’ person and felt much the same as you do now. So, (at 18), I prayed to God to send me someone tall, dark, and handsome that would be a good father/husband for me. At 19, I met my ‘knight in shining armour’ the same day he landed in my hometown…actually almost within the hour of his arrival! (No, I didn’t work for the airlines! : )
So, my advice to you is to say a prayer…and be specific….you never know. God knows what is best for you.
hello,
sorry for jumping in like that
, i ‘m a saudi gal and i just want to tell you that muslim men are allowed to remarry only if something is wrong in their first marrige. Marrige is not a game, yes, they are allowed to marry 4 but for strong reasons . even if those reasons DO exist, they are connected with “fairness”
if he is REALLY sure that he is going to be fair to his first as he is fair to the second , he is allowed to marry another.
the most important thing is the fear of Allah, something a man should aloways consider before such -hateful- step in my opinion.
..
To tell you the truth my friend, i prefer my husbad to have another wife in the house in front of my eyes , than having a mistress or two somewhere else.
thank you , and sorry again.
yours,
Muni
something else concerning money ,
a man have nothing to do with his wife’s money even if she was rich, no one can touch a penny she owns without her permission
In Islam, the husband provides for her during their life together and even if they get a divorce- if their is a child involved. ( oh how i love Islam
)
sorry for my spelling mistakes guys
muni
I hope readers are enjoying all the excellent comments and insights others have been providing here. Thank you all for your responses. We want more!
I have to agree completely with Miriam Mac and her views. I know speaking personally that if my husband were to take another and live with another, under Islam that may be his right but at the same time, I know I have choices too and would therefore likely say “ma salaama” for it is something to which I personally do not subscribe or agree with. Again, it underscores the need for good clear communication.
Responding to Mrs. Quiggs, I am aware of several circumstances in which a wife has died and the children indeed have come to live with the husband and surviving wife. In my view at least, the children are innocent and should not be judged, discriminated or ostracized. Even without anything tragic like death, I believe children should know one another for they are indeed related.
Now if the husband dies, there are procedures outlined in the Quran in regars to benefits, etc., that should be followed. Of course in many cases, benefits are on a case-by-case basis.
Phantom Guy – I don’t think one should give up on love or marriage at all. Like children, a beautiful loving relationship with a life partner is one of the greatest gifts.
Muni – welcome to my blog. I am so happy to have another Saudi female responding as with our differing backgrounds and traditions, we have a lot to learn from one another.
Phantom Man,
The thing is, it is (almost) impossible in Saudi to have man-woman intimate relationship outside the realms of marriage-especially on the female. It is even notable that many parents try to restrict freedoms given to their daughters and so marriage would often appear a liberation. So, it is not an option for a man and a woman to just live as partners.
***
As for (a man must have strong reasons to be able to remarry) that is the idealistic explanation to the situation. Truth is, Saudi Mufti’s and society just keeps fascilitating ways for men to remarry. Of course any curious man can simply say “I have strong reasons to remarry.” and who would know.
***
Now as to “he can marry 4 under the laws of Islam, but I would not accept to stay with him.” Especially for a wife who is not well involved with the society, and so might not get all the gossip, a man is allowed and can get married without his wife’s known. Worse, some men -amongst their little gatherings- discuss how it is respectful to the “mother of their children” not to tell her of any additional marriages (mesiar, vacation marriage, etc-they keep breeding like rabits-why of course fascilitate for the men, the mufti’s are men and know what men want!).
There is no law that forces a man to bring his first wife as witness to his second marriage.
There is no law that follows up with whether a man is being fair to all his wives, or that he is spending equal nights, money, vacations with each.
There is no law that investigates clear obvious reasons for remarriage.
It is horrifying. And ugly. What’s ugliest in it, is that women are agreeing to hurt women. The society is almost breaking them apart as community, breaking their bondings through religions, so it becomes okey and legal for one woman to hurt another. If a man is so bored and have excuses for another woman, he might as well give his wife a chance to explore too…
Aysha,
You raise such very good points but on your last paragraph I will respectfully agree to disagree (to a point). Yes; for those women who knowingly marry a man knowing he has another family(s), they should be astute enough to know they are huring another woman. However in so many many cases, the wive(s), as you said in one of your earlier paragraphs, may not be aware of each other and when they do learn, are usually so shattered regardless of being 1, 2, 3 and so on.
I’ve known five or six families in which multiple wives existed. While there is always a tension and a vigilence for fairness, even to the extent of feigned acceptance or efforts at friendship, sometimes the heart of one wife– the first, invariably– is mortally injured. Years are spent in resentment and depression, though neither woman leaves, because of kids or because they want to be “good Muslims”.
If I remember correctly, folk wisdom held that a man marries, “the first wife for family and the second wife for love.”
I knew two women, a Saudi and a Malaysian, who liked the idea of multiple wives, because they were career women. They did not want to spend their lives taking care of home, hearth, and babies, but did not want to forego the blessings of marriage.
The kids of such marriages seemed conflicted. They wanted to be loyal to their birth mother, but also loved their father, and saw advantages for themselves in accepting the other wife, with her kids, which would be considered siblings.
Aysha made so, soooo many good points that I think I’m going to print out her comments, translate them to Arabic and hand it out to new brides,LOL!
My SIL, who is the first of two wives, warned me strongly not to be so stingy with my husbands money because, “he’ll think he has more than money than he actually does then he’ll think he can afford another wife”. Then both my MIL and SIL advised me to tuck money away secretly from my husband, their own flesh and blood, in expectation of a rainy day!!! Being working-class housewives with no other source of income but the piddly little amounts their husbands give them has taught them the hard way.
SSW – very interesting perspectives and advise from your SIL and MIL.
First, bravo for all women who are saving for a possible rainy day.
Now, Here’s a question to the Saudi women out there….
How many wives are men really allowed to have now, legally? I heard that a mutawwa tried to convert a Christian here, telling him that he can have 7!!! One for every day of the week….4 allowable, and 3 misyars! When I ask men, I get one answer and when I ask women, I get the answer you gave above…even with misyars, it is only 4.
By the way, I usually hear from men that they do not have to tell their first wife about their other wives….and they can marry for no reason at all. Some men have 3 regular wives and then keep changing the 4th like the ‘flavor’ of the month. I don’t want to get into how I feel about this
(isn’t it obvious?), I just want to know if it’s actually legal for them to do it?
Anyone?
It’s an absolute disgrace that men can have more than one spouse and women cannot. Where is the love in that? Utterly unfair and morally degrading to women. Don’t put up with it. I thought this more than one wife business was only applicable during wars and such like when there were many widows in need of support ( as I was told it says in the Koran) why then is it being used today? Just so men can have as many women as they wish whilst women have to stick with one no matter what. Why do you put up with it? Where is your sense of self worth?
There are some aspects to the Saudi culture that I believe many of us who were not born into it will ever understand and I think the multiple wives falls into this category.
Many times you may hear that a Saudi man will remark that marriage number one was arranged so it was not a love marriage but an alliance between families and that the second marriage which would be of his choice, was for love. Not that I am saying that is right…just what seems to be a common response here. But that also then does not explain for number 3 or 4…
Or you may hear a man will say he has taken a second or third or fourth wife because he can afford to and they are good women.
It does seem many men ultimately do so because the culture and society say they can.
In my opinion.. a man should ask first his first wife before getting a second wife.. if his first wife agreed for him to marry or to take a second wife then that will be fair for her.. what i also believe that the man should think not only once but twice before entering another relationship.. because it will not be fair for the second wife to suffer like the first wife..and it also depend if he can financially support both.. what i think that in islam a man have the right to get 4 wives but only if he can support them and treat them equally.. sometimes the man will only get a second wife just to give them pleasure and to satisfy their needs.. but that will be unfair for the second wife as well as the rest…
Where is the woman’s choice “for love”? If a man explains that his family made the choice of first wife for him and therefore his second wife is “his choice for love” this is all well and good until it is appreciated that the woman will have no chance to find love, this is only a male privilege. Anyone can see that this is utterly cruel, we all have the right to find love in this life. Nobody has the right to take this from us. There is no excuse. If the woman’s family do not choose a husband she can love, then she is doomed to a loveless life. Heartbreaking. All this talk of second and third wives is obscene and taking human dignity from women, who have as much right as men to choose their destiny.
Marrying up to 4 wives is mentioned in the Quran in the context of ”caring for orphans” So not for adding young virgins to your menagerie.
It also states that:
“If you fear lest you may not be perfectly equitable in treating more than one wife, then you shall be content with one.” (4:3)
“You cannot be equitable in a polygamous relationship, no matter how hard you try.” (4:129)
Even the wives of the Prophet(pbuh) did a lot of quarreling and suffered a lot of jealousy, so if even the best of all men couldn’t really keep his wives happy, I think that ordinary men have no chance of succeeding.
And a man is resposible for the physical, and mental wellbeing of his wife. If his wife would be made unhappy with a second marriage then he can’t do it. (most wifes will be very unhappy, and feel betrayed if hubby suddenly decides to add another wife)
So although it is conditionally allowed, it is by no means a right which men can abuse however they like it.
But of course they do. I read about this old geezer who married a new wife about every 2 years, the others had to take lots, the one who got the small end had to leave. This is of course abuse of the ‘’spirit of the law” And there are muslim countries where such behaviour is not tolerated so easily.
Saudi Arabia is not one of those.
How will he know he loves no 2 anyway? He can’t have met her, as that would be haram. So if you take the second wife for love how will the man love both women equally? Of course he won’t, so he is not really allowed to marry no 2. It’s all a fake abuse of religious texts.
And don’t forget: women are told that if they don’t welcome their husbands extra wives they are ”bad muslims” and will go to hell for it.
So: No Pressure.
I don’t think such men, and such societies, care very much about how women feel, and if they are happy or not.
Or consider women should have many rights.
I agree with you that:
“You cannot be equitable in a polygamous relationship, no matter how hard you try.” (4:129)
That is so true. Al hum do lee lah. And God is All Knowing.
So, any women should not have to accept Wife Number 2 because she knows from reading the Koran, and the feeling in her heart, that it most probably won’t work. I’m sure that there are cases where it does work….but I have yet to meet one! Anyone????
If the agreement was that they would live together exclusively….and especially if the Saudi signed a contract in the country where only one is allowed and made it clear by signing that document that he is only going to marry one, then he should follow the law….or at least give his wife the option of divorce.
Anyway, I’d probably end up strangling the second wife, lol, so I think that it was smart of me to make my husband understand that I have a SMALL ‘jealousy’ issue before he goes and does something that will ultimatly divide our family.
And it also says in the Koran, that the best muslim is at the feet of his mother and he is the best to his wife. So, the least he can do is discuss this with his wife and not surprise her with a wife and 5 kids one day.
And I believe it also says that no man is supposed to come between a wife and her husband. So, with all the men egging on the guys to marry another ‘young’ one, he is ultimately playing with fire himself….at least in my point of view of how I understand what is written. And if they know she is married, and harrass her anyway, that is also trying to put an end to the marriage…..man or woman. True or am I mistaken?
Aafke, when you question about a man marrying for love because the culture does now allow what would be viewed as a haram relationship in getting to know one before marriage, in actuality, this happens routinely and that is indeed why prceeding marriages are viewed as “love matches.”
No matter which way you look at it, I just don’t see how it can be justified, equal or bring any kind of happiness.
Deli, ….here’s a ‘Shoe on the other foot’…science fiction of course….
For a man to see how it would feel as a woman in KSA as a multiple partner, all he needs to do is think of himself as ‘Mr. Mom’ at home with the kids each day as his wife goes off to work. (rare in the kingdom…but it happens.)
And after 15 or 20 years of this, the wife decides that she is a bit bored with him and arranges a new ‘love’ match. (Of course this is not allowed in Islam…I’m just trying to get a man to open his ‘feel’ box.) Anyway, she doesn’t divorce him because he is her cousin and it’s ‘just not done’ in the family.
So, while she plays with her new toy-boy, her first husband is alone in his room after another hard day of putting the kids to bed.
‘Where’s mommy?’ his son will ask him.
‘Oh, she’s with the co-husband honey, it’s our turn in 3 days.’
And in 3 days, when it’s his turn and he gets the kids to bed and makes a nice meal for her and buys some beautiful flowers and is planning to have HIS own ‘needs’ fullfilled, well…..she’s not really in the mood to play with him. They have an ‘older’ relationship now…and she feels like he’s a ‘brother’ to her. You understand how it is, don’t you honey? You know I love you the most of all…..you’ll always be number one in my heart.
Got the picture?
I think if men are going to do it…they need to be very ‘friendly’ with all their wives….even if they’re not in the mood. That’s what viagra is for.
Very very interesting picture, Thinker!!
Love Thinker’s comment
Yes Thinker well done! How would men feel? Would they put up with it?
Of course they wouldn’t! It’s time women didn’t either.
Oh this is such a scary topic for me as if Hani ever took another wife I think I would die. We have talked about it before and he said he wouldn’t, but if the topic arises how could I forgive him for even thinking about taking another wife in the first place! I think because I’m a westerner that this is especially hard and a little horrifiying too. What would a western woman do to ensure that her husband only wants her?
This is the ONLY thing that could take me away from my man, and honestly even through love the greatest betrayal for me would be if he took another wife. I woulnd’t be able to cope!
Any suggestions on how another western woman got her husband to promise to be a one-woman-man?
-B
Bridgette, Welcome to my blog and thank you for your comments.
I do not think there is a fool-proof recipe for a muslim man to never take another wife. In my view, this is where clear, continuing communication and understanding must be in place between the husband and wife. And we can’t place all situations in “one size fits all” box as each and every circumstance and situation is unique.
Bridgette,
No guarantees, but I can tell you that you just have to sit down with him and put it all on the table….in a very nice way….and at a time when he is willing to talk. (I took my husband to the beach at sunset.) Basically, I told mine that I had seen several of my friends in terrible situations, and I just wanted to be clear on just what our relationship was exactly after 25 years of marriage. Is it ok to chat online with the opposite sex? Is it ok to meet a strange person of the opposite sex for coffee out of town? Is it ok for either person to be somewhere and refuse to disclose where they are? Is it ok for a misyar marriage in our relationship? Is it ok to marry another wife without first informing me? Does he still feel a need to have more children? Are there any other children that I should know about now? (I had to ask!)
I had it all written down because I was so upset over what I’d been witnessing. And, let me tell you, I was shocked at some of his answers! But, that was a few years ago, and since then, things have been wonderful. Ask away…but know that the answers may not be what you want to hear. Prepare yourself for divorce…save your own money. Let him support you….that is your right. Then, if things don’t work out, you’ll be ready to go on your merry way….broken hearted, maybe, but at least not broke!!!
I am happy to say that the Chicago Sun Times chose to publish this post:
http://www.suntimes.com/news/blogentries/index.html?bbPostId=CzCso0daZ4bnXBEZgr4vZTMqJCzAA6HuBPZ1KlCz3jGt1jXqKaj
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[...] Saudis With Multiple Wives – Where Does The Foreign Wife Fit In? [...]
Popular topic here. Some seem to be unclear on the polygamy requirements. In Kuwait and any other country with Shari’ah law, a man does not need permission from wife one. He has to ”inform” her only.
Egypt now has a ruling that the husband must take permission, and Tunisia has banned it completely.
While most people rant on the man, let me bring up the other side. I lived with a very practicing polygamous family for over 20 years. No tip-toeing through the tulips and glows, sorry. I’ve seen the women’s pain and frustrations.
So, with this stated, how can any woman marry a man she know is married with kids and think it’s just perfectly pretty? Where is the sisterhood, the empathy for your fellow women?
It’s not just Arabs either. I personally know 4 Western women who have done this. Guess what? 2 of them ended up divorced because wife one refused to share, and the other 2 had the the new hubby marry on them!
There is some karma here.
On a serious note. The judges need to SERIOUSLY question these marriages since the men don’t get the ”can financially support more than one” and ”must be fair with both” nonsense. IF he cannot prove he can support them, why allow it? What about the children, who suffer over daddy’s sharing his income? Why would any woman support or pay bills in the houseshold to help him to have fun with wife number 2? Ludicrous.
Phantom Man: interesting comments. I would still choose to marry again even after a disaster, because I do truly believe marriage is a blessing–when you find the right partner. Keep an open heart.
I do not know the details of Saudi law but it is not uncommon in some muslim- majority countries for the marriage contract (nikah) to stipulate that the man cannot take another wife without permission from the first. It is also sometimes added that in the circumstance that he does take another wife she can get a talaq (rather than a khula -economically advantageous for her). Another clause they add is the man having to pay a HUGE sum of money in the case of divorce (like a delayed mahr payment). Anything that is specified in the contract is then upheld by the courts.
BTW, if you look at Islamic history, Ali did not take another wife while married to Fatimah as per the request of the Prophet as she would be hurt by it. If husbands were able to respect their wives wishes 1400 yrs ago in very tribal circumstances u’d think they’d be able to do so today as well.
I do not know the details of Saudi law but it is not uncommon in some muslim- majority countries for the marriage contract (nikah) to stipulate that the man cannot take another wife without permission from the first. It is also sometimes added that in the circumstance that he does take another wife she can get a talaq (rather than a khula -economically advantageous for her). Another clause they add is the man having to pay a HUGE sum of money in the case of divorce (like a delayed mahr payment). Anything that is specified in the contract is then upheld by the courts.
BTW, if you look at Islamic history, Ali did not take another wife while married to Fatimah as per the request of the Prophet as she would be hurt by it. If husbands were able to respect their wives wishes 1400 yrs ago in very tribal circumstances u’d think they’d be able to do so today as well.
Thanks for your comments, Ruhsablogger and you too, Viking Daughter!
Delhi4cats….I am the dumb woman who went back to her husband (I’m American revert Muslim & he is Saudi) and believed him when he said he wasn’t going to marry a second wife. A year later he did just that…he remarried the first wife he had divorced 13 years ago. He never said he was thinking about it or anything. I had been in the US with my mother (she had a stroke) for 2 months, returned to KSA and a week later was informed he was taking back his first wife. Two weeks have past, she has been here for a week, and I still resent my husband for his actions.
He tells me I should have good intentions towards the situation…lol that is easy for him to say, he wasn’t the one lied to! Oh and the best part is he said the agreement was just done, but she had sent her jewelry, shoes, and purses to the house (with her brothers) in boxes during Ramadan while I was still in the US. So I’d say the agreement was a long time before I got back!
So, how to deal with the anger…betrayal…etc. Anyone have any ideas? He knows that no one in my family will support me or my two girls – they are still angry at me for being a Muslim (since Desert Storm). I think this is why he takes advantage of the situation (will not say marriage since that requires trust and can’t trust him).
Pamela,
I can imagine your pain, anger and resentment. If you have not already done so I suggest you request to join the saudiwives@yahoogroups.com newsgroup which has a fantastic group of women, most in KSA and all married to Saudis. It is important for you to know you are not alone and a support network is out there.
Secondly if you believe you want out of the situation, that it is too much for you to handle, then you need to work on an action plan for YOU on how to cope and how YOU can support yourself and your two girls.
Sadly, as your comment points out, most (not all) Saudi men cannot be trusted and have no concept of faithfulness, partnership and trust.
Late to this post but have to comment on Pamelas story…girl…he is required to have separate living areas for additional wives…so bringing her home under YOUR roof is just a slap in the face far as I can see….and a definite no no.
You have to make it clear your not accepting this situation he created…Im always curious as to why the first wife etc should be the sacrificing party in the husbands desire to have his cake and eat it too….hmmm?
It would also make a refreshing changing if subsequent second, third wives etc….who actually KNOW they are second and third…if they would demand to meet face to face with first wife so that they can both meet the person whose life they are possibly about to destroy…and to actually find out if first wife even realizes shes about to become a multiple…its only fair.